Bus firm bosses to use special 'battle bus' in Southampton to catch stone throwing vandals

Daily Echo: First's Chrissie Bainbridge inspects the damage caused by stone throwing vandals in Southampton First's Chrissie Bainbridge inspects the damage caused by stone throwing vandals in Southampton

A BUS firm is wheeling out its “battle bus” in the war against vandals attacking its services.

First will use a bus specially equipped with cameras on a route that has been targeted by children throwing rocks and stones.

It comes as the Daily Echo can today reveal that a child as young as seven was involved in an ambush of the number 2 service along Redbridge Hill in Millbrook, Southampton.

The seven-year-old was part of a gang of five children who smashed three windows on the bus while frightened passengers were on board. They have all been handed Acceptable Behaviour Contracts (ABCs), a junior version of an antisocial behaviour order.

First initially stopped running the number 2 service for the safety of staff and passengers but has since reinstated it.

However the company warned it could be withdrawn altogether if the attacks did not stop.

Bus chiefs, who have held emergency talks with police and community leaders, revealed that it cost them £300 to replace each broken window. In one year, 2008, First spent £750,000 in Hampshire alone replacing broken glass in its buses.

Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”.

First’s business performance director Chrissie Bainbridge said: “It will be used as part of the service as a deterrent to catch out those involved.

“Often the problem is that we cannot see where the missiles are coming from and the culprits are very good at telling each other where the bus is coming from and one of the problems is that by the time the attack happens the kids have gone.

“It makes drivers anxious and the safety of drivers and passengers is the most important thing. We do not want to withdraw a service from anywhere because of the actions of some vandals. But should this continue we would review the service.”

Community leaders in Millbrook have spoken out against the attacks.

Louise Archer, chairman for Maybush Triangle Residents’ Association said: “We are not happy if the bus companies suspend services as it will impact on those trying to go about their daily lives. It is unfortunate that the minority spoil it for the majority by these mindless acts of vandalism.”

Millbrook Ward councillor David Furnell, said: “The Maybush Triangle area is isolated and if they did withdraw the service it would isolate the area even more. It would be very detrimental to the community.

“People are dependent on that bus here, they need to use it to go to school, work, the local post office and the hospital.”

He praised First’s response and the use of the “battle bus”.

Police have defended the use of ABCs and warned that tougher action would be taken if the vandalism attacks on buses continued.

Millbrook engagement officer PC Lynette Chant said: “I think this is the right way to deal with something like this. It is what community policing is about. We are dealing with young people and we want to reduce re-offending by educating and intervening.”

“These are very young children and it is what is best for the community and the individuals involved and that was to stop the attacks continuing as soon as possible.”

Just days after the Redbridge Hill attack, two other buses running through Shirley Road, near Mandela Way were vandalised. The terrifying assault saw an old man showered with glass.

The attacks are not thought to be linked.

Police are in talks with bus companies in the city to introduce an educational programme to teach children about the dangers of vandalism against buses which could be rolled out to schools in the future.

Comments (55)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

8:47am Sat 22 Feb 14

H0ckeyd says...

Why does this sound like an advert for He-Man?
Why does this sound like an advert for He-Man? H0ckeyd

9:25am Sat 22 Feb 14

Geoff A says...

Can I ride shotgun?
Can I ride shotgun? Geoff A

9:28am Sat 22 Feb 14

Hampshire Corn and Bread says...

Police have defended the use of ABCs and warned that tougher action would be taken if the vandalism attacks on buses continued.

I'm sure that will strike fear into their little hearts.

Meanwhile passengers are having to put up with increases in fares to pay for this.
Police have defended the use of ABCs and warned that tougher action would be taken if the vandalism attacks on buses continued. I'm sure that will strike fear into their little hearts. Meanwhile passengers are having to put up with increases in fares to pay for this. Hampshire Corn and Bread

9:31am Sat 22 Feb 14

KSO16R says...

Sounds like appropriate action has been taken all round. However i am sure the 'hang em high' mob will not be satisfied.
Sounds like appropriate action has been taken all round. However i am sure the 'hang em high' mob will not be satisfied. KSO16R

9:34am Sat 22 Feb 14

bigfella777 says...

So they spent 750k on windows in one year. Imagine if they had spent that money on youth projects in the community. It might make them have a bit more respect for first.
So they spent 750k on windows in one year. Imagine if they had spent that money on youth projects in the community. It might make them have a bit more respect for first. bigfella777

9:38am Sat 22 Feb 14

sasmike says...

I blame guly
I blame guly sasmike

10:21am Sat 22 Feb 14

loonaloop says...

We`re not happy says fatty who has never used a bus service in her life.
We`re not happy says fatty who has never used a bus service in her life. loonaloop

10:26am Sat 22 Feb 14

wwozzer says...

Acceptable behaviour contracts? What a joke.

What about prosecuting the parents and making them pay for the windows? When I was a kid my dad would have made me work to pay it all off and i'd have a got a few lashes from his belt for good measure.
Acceptable behaviour contracts? What a joke. What about prosecuting the parents and making them pay for the windows? When I was a kid my dad would have made me work to pay it all off and i'd have a got a few lashes from his belt for good measure. wwozzer

10:36am Sat 22 Feb 14

Linesman says...

Parents are supposed to be responsible for their children, especially those as young as seven, so why have they not been hauled up before the courts?
Parents are supposed to be responsible for their children, especially those as young as seven, so why have they not been hauled up before the courts? Linesman

10:45am Sat 22 Feb 14

huckit P says...

Never mind educating the kids. What about educating the parents? They are the problem because if they took the time to get involved in their children's life a bit more they would know where they where they were and what they were doing. Why should the bus company spends thousands on education - to teach children not to throw stones. Since when was it their responsibility to do the parents job?
Never mind having a "Millbrook Engagement Officer" and plastic bobbies; get real bobbies there and do some real policing, instead of having endless meetings, with endless bright ideas, spending heaven knows what on it all, and then no action.
Never mind educating the kids. What about educating the parents? They are the problem because if they took the time to get involved in their children's life a bit more they would know where they where they were and what they were doing. Why should the bus company spends thousands on education - to teach children not to throw stones. Since when was it their responsibility to do the parents job? Never mind having a "Millbrook Engagement Officer" and plastic bobbies; get real bobbies there and do some real policing, instead of having endless meetings, with endless bright ideas, spending heaven knows what on it all, and then no action. huckit P

10:54am Sat 22 Feb 14

oldchippy65 says...

They just don't know right from wrong do they and why is that do you think?
They just don't know right from wrong do they and why is that do you think? oldchippy65

11:42am Sat 22 Feb 14

charrlee says...

Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish. charrlee

12:49pm Sat 22 Feb 14

loosehead says...

so what the Echo are warning the yobs to lie low for a while let all of this die down & then resume the stone throwing?
I hope the yobs haven't got the mentality to read this article & they get caught but surely if your out to catch them you don't advertise how you're going to do it?
so what the Echo are warning the yobs to lie low for a while let all of this die down & then resume the stone throwing? I hope the yobs haven't got the mentality to read this article & they get caught but surely if your out to catch them you don't advertise how you're going to do it? loosehead

12:53pm Sat 22 Feb 14

loosehead says...

Linesman wrote:
Parents are supposed to be responsible for their children, especially those as young as seven, so why have they not been hauled up before the courts?
hasn't a lot of the punishments a parent can hand out to kids been taken away from them?
I remem,ber an article about a boy who was divorcing his parents over a pair of trainers?
Wasn't I shocked to find he was one of my Rugby youth team & thought it was just a big laugh
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: Parents are supposed to be responsible for their children, especially those as young as seven, so why have they not been hauled up before the courts?[/p][/quote]hasn't a lot of the punishments a parent can hand out to kids been taken away from them? I remem,ber an article about a boy who was divorcing his parents over a pair of trainers? Wasn't I shocked to find he was one of my Rugby youth team & thought it was just a big laugh loosehead

12:53pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Nutstrangler says...

What "Loosehead" said !
What "Loosehead" said ! Nutstrangler

1:00pm Sat 22 Feb 14

KSO16R says...

wwozzer wrote:
Acceptable behaviour contracts? What a joke.

What about prosecuting the parents and making them pay for the windows? When I was a kid my dad would have made me work to pay it all off and i'd have a got a few lashes from his belt for good measure.
The police think this is the right way to deal with these 'very young' children. 'A few lashes for good measure' what is that supposed to mean? So is it the behaviour you condemn or the punishment?
[quote][p][bold]wwozzer[/bold] wrote: Acceptable behaviour contracts? What a joke. What about prosecuting the parents and making them pay for the windows? When I was a kid my dad would have made me work to pay it all off and i'd have a got a few lashes from his belt for good measure.[/p][/quote]The police think this is the right way to deal with these 'very young' children. 'A few lashes for good measure' what is that supposed to mean? So is it the behaviour you condemn or the punishment? KSO16R

1:04pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Zeo says...

How about reinforced glass or shatter proof glass - expensive but the windows should hold out longer for the bus to make a quick exit.
How about reinforced glass or shatter proof glass - expensive but the windows should hold out longer for the bus to make a quick exit. Zeo

1:13pm Sat 22 Feb 14

charrlee says...

Zeo wrote:
How about reinforced glass or shatter proof glass - expensive but the windows should hold out longer for the bus to make a quick exit.
Damnation Alley ! (Roger Zelazny)
[quote][p][bold]Zeo[/bold] wrote: How about reinforced glass or shatter proof glass - expensive but the windows should hold out longer for the bus to make a quick exit.[/p][/quote]Damnation Alley ! (Roger Zelazny) charrlee

1:31pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Red Eyes says...

Oh no! They have been given ABC's! That will stop them!

Or will that just be the first on there list of criminal credentials that they will receive in there lifetime!

ABC's tho? Really?
Oh no! They have been given ABC's! That will stop them! Or will that just be the first on there list of criminal credentials that they will receive in there lifetime! ABC's tho? Really? Red Eyes

1:57pm Sat 22 Feb 14

charrlee says...

The understandable anger and cynicism coming on nicely..........any useful, legal, possible ideas?
I always thought giving people dole/jobseekers allowance for nothing in return was a bit odd. I've been "between jobs" on a number of occasions, and felt guilty about taking the money for nothing. How about community work to improve the look of the estates? Then some of the lazy parents who let their kids bombard the buses might find themselves under pressure from the neighbours to make an effort.
The understandable anger and cynicism coming on nicely..........any useful, legal, possible ideas? I always thought giving people dole/jobseekers allowance for nothing in return was a bit odd. I've been "between jobs" on a number of occasions, and felt guilty about taking the money for nothing. How about community work to improve the look of the estates? Then some of the lazy parents who let their kids bombard the buses might find themselves under pressure from the neighbours to make an effort. charrlee

3:16pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Mary80 says...

oldchippy65 wrote:
They just don't know right from wrong do they and why is that do you think?
Oh i disagree kids at 7 years old are a lot more aware than you think. They know EXACTLY what they're doing they do know right from wrong don 't assume kids are naive
[quote][p][bold]oldchippy65[/bold] wrote: They just don't know right from wrong do they and why is that do you think?[/p][/quote]Oh i disagree kids at 7 years old are a lot more aware than you think. They know EXACTLY what they're doing they do know right from wrong don 't assume kids are naive Mary80

3:19pm Sat 22 Feb 14

loosehead says...

Let's see the thumbs down for this post?
The police set up a trap to catch a mass murderer but let the local paper print how the traps going to work will the murderer walk into the trap or go elsewhere to kill some one?
a group of yobs know first bus are trying to trap them but are Blueline?
Now if these yobs are that thick (well done Labours Comprehensive education system) they will stone First bus but really pre warned is pre armed isn't it?
Let's see the thumbs down for this post? The police set up a trap to catch a mass murderer but let the local paper print how the traps going to work will the murderer walk into the trap or go elsewhere to kill some one? a group of yobs know first bus are trying to trap them but are Blueline? Now if these yobs are that thick (well done Labours Comprehensive education system) they will stone First bus but really pre warned is pre armed isn't it? loosehead

3:59pm Sat 22 Feb 14

vpharm says...

if any of the yobs are in housing association or council homes their whole family should be evicted & NOT rehoused!

Council could put in a by law to ban covering of your face in public!

jail the thugs & ban them from all public transport for LIFE!
if any of the yobs are in housing association or council homes their whole family should be evicted & NOT rehoused! Council could put in a by law to ban covering of your face in public! jail the thugs & ban them from all public transport for LIFE! vpharm

4:01pm Sat 22 Feb 14

vpharm says...

old enough to cause damage, old enough to be jailled!

put a tag on the yobs & ban them from any bus route area!
old enough to cause damage, old enough to be jailled! put a tag on the yobs & ban them from any bus route area! vpharm

4:03pm Sat 22 Feb 14

vpharm says...

throwing a rock at any vehicule should be classed as attempted murder!
evict all the yobs from their homes!
throwing a rock at any vehicule should be classed as attempted murder! evict all the yobs from their homes! vpharm

4:05pm Sat 22 Feb 14

vpharm says...

put armed police on the buses & allow police to shoot the yobs & eventually wipe them out! there job done & law & order restored
put armed police on the buses & allow police to shoot the yobs & eventually wipe them out! there job done & law & order restored vpharm

4:20pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

loosehead wrote:
Let's see the thumbs down for this post?
The police set up a trap to catch a mass murderer but let the local paper print how the traps going to work will the murderer walk into the trap or go elsewhere to kill some one?
a group of yobs know first bus are trying to trap them but are Blueline?
Now if these yobs are that thick (well done Labours Comprehensive education system) they will stone First bus but really pre warned is pre armed isn't it?
As they probably cannot read or write, it really wouldn't matter what went into the newspapers.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Let's see the thumbs down for this post? The police set up a trap to catch a mass murderer but let the local paper print how the traps going to work will the murderer walk into the trap or go elsewhere to kill some one? a group of yobs know first bus are trying to trap them but are Blueline? Now if these yobs are that thick (well done Labours Comprehensive education system) they will stone First bus but really pre warned is pre armed isn't it?[/p][/quote]As they probably cannot read or write, it really wouldn't matter what went into the newspapers. Inform Al

4:54pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Turtlebay says...

"Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. "

Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out?
"Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. " Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out? Turtlebay

5:15pm Sat 22 Feb 14

charrlee says...

vpharm wrote:
if any of the yobs are in housing association or council homes their whole family should be evicted & NOT rehoused!

Council could put in a by law to ban covering of your face in public!

jail the thugs & ban them from all public transport for LIFE!
You are really getting off on this, aren't you? You know very well that no civilised society would do what you are suggesting, so your purpose can be nothing more than self-gratification. I think most people will know what I mean.
[quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if any of the yobs are in housing association or council homes their whole family should be evicted & NOT rehoused! Council could put in a by law to ban covering of your face in public! jail the thugs & ban them from all public transport for LIFE![/p][/quote]You are really getting off on this, aren't you? You know very well that no civilised society would do what you are suggesting, so your purpose can be nothing more than self-gratification. I think most people will know what I mean. charrlee

5:29pm Sat 22 Feb 14

charrlee says...

We work, we get paid - that is a model everyone understands. Also, people tend to look after things they have bought, mended, or created. The children who throw rocks at buses have no sense of pride or ownership, and they will not develop that through fear, or sadistic punishment (obviously). Violence, and violent attitudes always breed further violence.
We work, we get paid - that is a model everyone understands. Also, people tend to look after things they have bought, mended, or created. The children who throw rocks at buses have no sense of pride or ownership, and they will not develop that through fear, or sadistic punishment (obviously). Violence, and violent attitudes always breed further violence. charrlee

8:40pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Mary80 says...

The easy solution is simply to name and shame them and send them the bill for repairs there's no need to turn vigilante over this
The easy solution is simply to name and shame them and send them the bill for repairs there's no need to turn vigilante over this Mary80

9:01pm Sat 22 Feb 14

loosehead says...

Inform Al wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Let's see the thumbs down for this post?
The police set up a trap to catch a mass murderer but let the local paper print how the traps going to work will the murderer walk into the trap or go elsewhere to kill some one?
a group of yobs know first bus are trying to trap them but are Blueline?
Now if these yobs are that thick (well done Labours Comprehensive education system) they will stone First bus but really pre warned is pre armed isn't it?
As they probably cannot read or write, it really wouldn't matter what went into the newspapers.
are these the children of the failed Labour treat them all equal comprehensive system your talking about?
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Let's see the thumbs down for this post? The police set up a trap to catch a mass murderer but let the local paper print how the traps going to work will the murderer walk into the trap or go elsewhere to kill some one? a group of yobs know first bus are trying to trap them but are Blueline? Now if these yobs are that thick (well done Labours Comprehensive education system) they will stone First bus but really pre warned is pre armed isn't it?[/p][/quote]As they probably cannot read or write, it really wouldn't matter what went into the newspapers.[/p][/quote]are these the children of the failed Labour treat them all equal comprehensive system your talking about? loosehead

9:36pm Sat 22 Feb 14

Rickyrocket says...

bigfella777 wrote:
So they spent 750k on windows in one year. Imagine if they had spent that money on youth projects in the community. It might make them have a bit more respect for first.
As if that's how they think.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: So they spent 750k on windows in one year. Imagine if they had spent that money on youth projects in the community. It might make them have a bit more respect for first.[/p][/quote]As if that's how they think. Rickyrocket

3:55am Sun 23 Feb 14

WalkingOnAWire says...

charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
This is excellent @charrlee. And not just because of Bob, although that helps.

The challenge we have - and when I say we, I mean all of us, of all political parties, and of none - is how to bridge a divide which causes this kind of behaviour. It's not a time to be cynical, to score points, or to find someone or something to blame. It 's a time to try to be constructive. Local politicians can help here, and I'm sure they are already and will continue to do so.

No old man person sitting on a bus anywhere should be showered in glass because a missile has been thrown at it.

For my part, I think we like many cities lack youth facilities - like the old ice rink - and simplistic as it may sound, that's where we should start to look at improving our city. Casinos can come later, when we've got enough infrastructure in place for the next generation to benefit from.

Who's next?
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]This is excellent @charrlee. And not just because of Bob, although that helps. The challenge we have - and when I say we, I mean all of us, of all political parties, and of none - is how to bridge a divide which causes this kind of behaviour. It's not a time to be cynical, to score points, or to find someone or something to blame. It 's a time to try to be constructive. Local politicians can help here, and I'm sure they are already and will continue to do so. No old man person sitting on a bus anywhere should be showered in glass because a missile has been thrown at it. For my part, I think we like many cities lack youth facilities - like the old ice rink - and simplistic as it may sound, that's where we should start to look at improving our city. Casinos can come later, when we've got enough infrastructure in place for the next generation to benefit from. Who's next? WalkingOnAWire

7:40am Sun 23 Feb 14

loosehead says...

WalkingOnAWire wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
This is excellent @charrlee. And not just because of Bob, although that helps.

The challenge we have - and when I say we, I mean all of us, of all political parties, and of none - is how to bridge a divide which causes this kind of behaviour. It's not a time to be cynical, to score points, or to find someone or something to blame. It 's a time to try to be constructive. Local politicians can help here, and I'm sure they are already and will continue to do so.

No old man person sitting on a bus anywhere should be showered in glass because a missile has been thrown at it.

For my part, I think we like many cities lack youth facilities - like the old ice rink - and simplistic as it may sound, that's where we should start to look at improving our city. Casinos can come later, when we've got enough infrastructure in place for the next generation to benefit from.

Who's next?
why is it that when I was 15 & left school this type of senseless vandalism never happened yes we had skinheads & greasers but they were only interested in fighting each other not this American gang culture we have now?
could it be parents had more rights & could actually chastise the children?
could it be many children of teenage years went looking for jobs(part time)?
why did it all change?
we copied Californian laws on children took away parental rights we have made it so our children can divorce their parents if they don't get the newest pair of trainers or games consul how can that be right?
my mum was a tyrant & her form of control was too extreme but many families use to at least give the child a clip around the ear if they were caught doing anything like this exactly what punishment can the parents give now?
that's why so many have given up & let them do what they want to do
[quote][p][bold]WalkingOnAWire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]This is excellent @charrlee. And not just because of Bob, although that helps. The challenge we have - and when I say we, I mean all of us, of all political parties, and of none - is how to bridge a divide which causes this kind of behaviour. It's not a time to be cynical, to score points, or to find someone or something to blame. It 's a time to try to be constructive. Local politicians can help here, and I'm sure they are already and will continue to do so. No old man person sitting on a bus anywhere should be showered in glass because a missile has been thrown at it. For my part, I think we like many cities lack youth facilities - like the old ice rink - and simplistic as it may sound, that's where we should start to look at improving our city. Casinos can come later, when we've got enough infrastructure in place for the next generation to benefit from. Who's next?[/p][/quote]why is it that when I was 15 & left school this type of senseless vandalism never happened yes we had skinheads & greasers but they were only interested in fighting each other not this American gang culture we have now? could it be parents had more rights & could actually chastise the children? could it be many children of teenage years went looking for jobs(part time)? why did it all change? we copied Californian laws on children took away parental rights we have made it so our children can divorce their parents if they don't get the newest pair of trainers or games consul how can that be right? my mum was a tyrant & her form of control was too extreme but many families use to at least give the child a clip around the ear if they were caught doing anything like this exactly what punishment can the parents give now? that's why so many have given up & let them do what they want to do loosehead

8:41am Sun 23 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

KSO16R wrote:
Sounds like appropriate action has been taken all round. However i am sure the 'hang em high' mob will not be satisfied.
Well we don't do we, because we haven't been told the age of the eldest. If it's greater than 14 an "ABC" is not appropriate. There should be a charge of criminal damage reckless as to whether life is endangered with a Grave Crime argument and the possibility of Crown Court. But if the oldest is only around 10-12 then that's about the best can be done, i.e. mark their card.
[quote][p][bold]KSO16R[/bold] wrote: Sounds like appropriate action has been taken all round. However i am sure the 'hang em high' mob will not be satisfied.[/p][/quote]Well we don't do we, because we haven't been told the age of the eldest. If it's greater than 14 an "ABC" is not appropriate. There should be a charge of criminal damage reckless as to whether life is endangered with a Grave Crime argument and the possibility of Crown Court. But if the oldest is only around 10-12 then that's about the best can be done, i.e. mark their card. Dai Rear

8:52am Sun 23 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see. Dai Rear

11:47am Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess. charrlee

1:59pm Sun 23 Feb 14

forest hump says...

charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose. forest hump

1:59pm Sun 23 Feb 14

WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER. says...

charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
research the tavistock institute or the frankfurt school ,all the answers to the modern day cesspit lie there.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]research the tavistock institute or the frankfurt school ,all the answers to the modern day cesspit lie there. WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER.

2:22pm Sun 23 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

Have to be quick. Too much battered cod. Don't know much about Robert's lyrics but I don't think Mr Zanzinger was quite as bad as Our Bob would have liked us to think. The Telegraph's published nothing of mine since Alan Green DPP kerb crawled in St Pancras. I doubt the Hitler Youth would catch on in Tai Felin Wildmill Bridgend or Blackbird Leys Oxford. If I was Robin Hood I'd probably give all the dosh I nicked off Wayne Rooney to the 7 poor people with the biggest knockers. Donations to Charity only work with the Death Tax; trust me. If my dear old Auntie had left the quarter Mill to her Oxford College as she'd always said she would, rather than a person, can't remember who, probably Pol Pot, I'd have been quids in on the taxation of the Will Trust. I like "financially obese". There were a heck of a lot of obese in the Canary Islands. All appeared to be from Manchester. Are they well rich up there, do you think? Does W Rooney come from Manchester. No, sorry, as you'll have gathered, I think taxation is theft and rule by the big grabbing State about as good as rule by the Bishops, which we had 600 years ago. Judging by their witterings about welfare rationalisation they seem to want to make a comeback. Don't vote for the Bishops Party.
Have to be quick. Too much battered cod. Don't know much about Robert's lyrics but I don't think Mr Zanzinger was quite as bad as Our Bob would have liked us to think. The Telegraph's published nothing of mine since Alan Green DPP kerb crawled in St Pancras. I doubt the Hitler Youth would catch on in Tai Felin Wildmill Bridgend or Blackbird Leys Oxford. If I was Robin Hood I'd probably give all the dosh I nicked off Wayne Rooney to the 7 poor people with the biggest knockers. Donations to Charity only work with the Death Tax; trust me. If my dear old Auntie had left the quarter Mill to her Oxford College as she'd always said she would, rather than a person, can't remember who, probably Pol Pot, I'd have been quids in on the taxation of the Will Trust. I like "financially obese". There were a heck of a lot of obese in the Canary Islands. All appeared to be from Manchester. Are they well rich up there, do you think? Does W Rooney come from Manchester. No, sorry, as you'll have gathered, I think taxation is theft and rule by the big grabbing State about as good as rule by the Bishops, which we had 600 years ago. Judging by their witterings about welfare rationalisation they seem to want to make a comeback. Don't vote for the Bishops Party. Dai Rear

2:33pm Sun 23 Feb 14

forest hump says...

WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
research the tavistock institute or the frankfurt school ,all the answers to the modern day cesspit lie there.
Totally agree! By the time the Psychoanalysis is complete, another dozen or so buses have been trashed and the feral scum have become bored and moved on to a more entertaining form of trashing. Charlee sounds like a Southy alter ego without the grammatical errors. Do not blame Capitalism, it is simply down to discipline and respect. Stop hiding behind these lame excuses and impose deterrents which work. Reinstate a school system which is synonymous with this principle. Start at an early age, kids are influenced from a very young age. Chastise the unruly parents who have zero self respect and principles. It is always easier to blame rather than take responsibility.
[quote][p][bold]WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]research the tavistock institute or the frankfurt school ,all the answers to the modern day cesspit lie there.[/p][/quote]Totally agree! By the time the Psychoanalysis is complete, another dozen or so buses have been trashed and the feral scum have become bored and moved on to a more entertaining form of trashing. Charlee sounds like a Southy alter ego without the grammatical errors. Do not blame Capitalism, it is simply down to discipline and respect. Stop hiding behind these lame excuses and impose deterrents which work. Reinstate a school system which is synonymous with this principle. Start at an early age, kids are influenced from a very young age. Chastise the unruly parents who have zero self respect and principles. It is always easier to blame rather than take responsibility. forest hump

2:38pm Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.
May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach.
"fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson.
I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour.
On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.
[quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.[/p][/quote]May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach. "fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson. I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour. On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment. charrlee

2:47pm Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

Dai Rear wrote:
Have to be quick. Too much battered cod. Don't know much about Robert's lyrics but I don't think Mr Zanzinger was quite as bad as Our Bob would have liked us to think. The Telegraph's published nothing of mine since Alan Green DPP kerb crawled in St Pancras. I doubt the Hitler Youth would catch on in Tai Felin Wildmill Bridgend or Blackbird Leys Oxford. If I was Robin Hood I'd probably give all the dosh I nicked off Wayne Rooney to the 7 poor people with the biggest knockers. Donations to Charity only work with the Death Tax; trust me. If my dear old Auntie had left the quarter Mill to her Oxford College as she'd always said she would, rather than a person, can't remember who, probably Pol Pot, I'd have been quids in on the taxation of the Will Trust. I like "financially obese". There were a heck of a lot of obese in the Canary Islands. All appeared to be from Manchester. Are they well rich up there, do you think? Does W Rooney come from Manchester. No, sorry, as you'll have gathered, I think taxation is theft and rule by the big grabbing State about as good as rule by the Bishops, which we had 600 years ago. Judging by their witterings about welfare rationalisation they seem to want to make a comeback. Don't vote for the Bishops Party.
Very entertaining, Dai. A jolly good read, and I look forward to more of your posts.
Um.....the Dylan quote was from "Like A Rolling Stone", not "The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll".
Read the full account of William Zanzinger's behaviour and I think you'll find Dylan's account is spot on.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Have to be quick. Too much battered cod. Don't know much about Robert's lyrics but I don't think Mr Zanzinger was quite as bad as Our Bob would have liked us to think. The Telegraph's published nothing of mine since Alan Green DPP kerb crawled in St Pancras. I doubt the Hitler Youth would catch on in Tai Felin Wildmill Bridgend or Blackbird Leys Oxford. If I was Robin Hood I'd probably give all the dosh I nicked off Wayne Rooney to the 7 poor people with the biggest knockers. Donations to Charity only work with the Death Tax; trust me. If my dear old Auntie had left the quarter Mill to her Oxford College as she'd always said she would, rather than a person, can't remember who, probably Pol Pot, I'd have been quids in on the taxation of the Will Trust. I like "financially obese". There were a heck of a lot of obese in the Canary Islands. All appeared to be from Manchester. Are they well rich up there, do you think? Does W Rooney come from Manchester. No, sorry, as you'll have gathered, I think taxation is theft and rule by the big grabbing State about as good as rule by the Bishops, which we had 600 years ago. Judging by their witterings about welfare rationalisation they seem to want to make a comeback. Don't vote for the Bishops Party.[/p][/quote]Very entertaining, Dai. A jolly good read, and I look forward to more of your posts. Um.....the Dylan quote was from "Like A Rolling Stone", not "The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll". Read the full account of William Zanzinger's behaviour and I think you'll find Dylan's account is spot on. charrlee

2:59pm Sun 23 Feb 14

andysaints007 says...

bigfella777 wrote:
So they spent 750k on windows in one year. Imagine if they had spent that money on youth projects in the community. It might make them have a bit more respect for first.
Just when we all thought you couldn't be a bigger ar*sehole than you already are!"
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: So they spent 750k on windows in one year. Imagine if they had spent that money on youth projects in the community. It might make them have a bit more respect for first.[/p][/quote]Just when we all thought you couldn't be a bigger ar*sehole than you already are!" andysaints007

3:04pm Sun 23 Feb 14

forest hump says...

charrlee wrote:
forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.
May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach.
"fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson.
I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour.
On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.
Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.[/p][/quote]May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach. "fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson. I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour. On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.[/p][/quote]Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple. forest hump

4:11pm Sun 23 Feb 14

Donald2000 says...

Turtlebay wrote:
"Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. "

Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out?
Because then they will find what they expect to find, precisely nothing. You don't think they will send out a battle bus when they expect trouble do you. Anyone would think the bus companies are brave. But of course they are just as cowardly as the people who smash their windows. If they were brave, then their windows would not get smashed.

As ever, logic is absent in these arguments.
[quote][p][bold]Turtlebay[/bold] wrote: "Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. " Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out?[/p][/quote]Because then they will find what they expect to find, precisely nothing. You don't think they will send out a battle bus when they expect trouble do you. Anyone would think the bus companies are brave. But of course they are just as cowardly as the people who smash their windows. If they were brave, then their windows would not get smashed. As ever, logic is absent in these arguments. Donald2000

4:40pm Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

Donald2000 wrote:
Turtlebay wrote:
"Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. "

Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out?
Because then they will find what they expect to find, precisely nothing. You don't think they will send out a battle bus when they expect trouble do you. Anyone would think the bus companies are brave. But of course they are just as cowardly as the people who smash their windows. If they were brave, then their windows would not get smashed.

As ever, logic is absent in these arguments.
Just thought. Take out ALL the windows from ALL the buses, then passengers could throw the rocks back........or better still, come armed with grenades and flame throwers! Now THAT'S what I'd call a battle bus!

(Just a bit of fun to amuse or annoy)
[quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Turtlebay[/bold] wrote: "Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. " Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out?[/p][/quote]Because then they will find what they expect to find, precisely nothing. You don't think they will send out a battle bus when they expect trouble do you. Anyone would think the bus companies are brave. But of course they are just as cowardly as the people who smash their windows. If they were brave, then their windows would not get smashed. As ever, logic is absent in these arguments.[/p][/quote]Just thought. Take out ALL the windows from ALL the buses, then passengers could throw the rocks back........or better still, come armed with grenades and flame throwers! Now THAT'S what I'd call a battle bus! (Just a bit of fun to amuse or annoy) charrlee

4:56pm Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.
May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach.
"fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson.
I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour.
On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.
Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple.
I....I'm very, very sorry Mr Hump. To....."to tell the truth", I was......"please, and thank-you".........m
aking fun of your martinetish attitude.

Quite frankly, you sound far too dangerous to be going around on your own. On the other hand, get on out to Millbrook........

"Have you seen......that Vigilante Man..........."
[quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.[/p][/quote]May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach. "fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson. I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour. On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.[/p][/quote]Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple.[/p][/quote]I....I'm very, very sorry Mr Hump. To....."to tell the truth", I was......"please, and thank-you".........m aking fun of your martinetish attitude. Quite frankly, you sound far too dangerous to be going around on your own. On the other hand, get on out to Millbrook........ "Have you seen......that Vigilante Man..........." charrlee

4:59pm Sun 23 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

I didn't think it was from H Carroll. I know or knew most of the words of that. Just said I knew little of his other lyrics. Zanzinger was a tobacco farmer whose dad had 500 acres, hardly the Kennedys, for example; not really a scion of the rich and powerful as RZ would have liked him to be. His behaviour was odious but not egregious, I think you'll find, for the time. I have a Canadian friend, Professor at one of their universities who made a study of the case, rather a left wing person as it happens, and I have echoed his view.
And, all said and done, poor Hattie wouldn't have been chucking rocks at his bus, nor indeed vice versa.
I didn't think it was from H Carroll. I know or knew most of the words of that. Just said I knew little of his other lyrics. Zanzinger was a tobacco farmer whose dad had 500 acres, hardly the Kennedys, for example; not really a scion of the rich and powerful as RZ would have liked him to be. His behaviour was odious but not egregious, I think you'll find, for the time. I have a Canadian friend, Professor at one of their universities who made a study of the case, rather a left wing person as it happens, and I have echoed his view. And, all said and done, poor Hattie wouldn't have been chucking rocks at his bus, nor indeed vice versa. Dai Rear

5:24pm Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

Dai Rear wrote:
I didn't think it was from H Carroll. I know or knew most of the words of that. Just said I knew little of his other lyrics. Zanzinger was a tobacco farmer whose dad had 500 acres, hardly the Kennedys, for example; not really a scion of the rich and powerful as RZ would have liked him to be. His behaviour was odious but not egregious, I think you'll find, for the time. I have a Canadian friend, Professor at one of their universities who made a study of the case, rather a left wing person as it happens, and I have echoed his view.
And, all said and done, poor Hattie wouldn't have been chucking rocks at his bus, nor indeed vice versa.
Georgem ! It IS you, isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: I didn't think it was from H Carroll. I know or knew most of the words of that. Just said I knew little of his other lyrics. Zanzinger was a tobacco farmer whose dad had 500 acres, hardly the Kennedys, for example; not really a scion of the rich and powerful as RZ would have liked him to be. His behaviour was odious but not egregious, I think you'll find, for the time. I have a Canadian friend, Professor at one of their universities who made a study of the case, rather a left wing person as it happens, and I have echoed his view. And, all said and done, poor Hattie wouldn't have been chucking rocks at his bus, nor indeed vice versa.[/p][/quote]Georgem ! It IS you, isn't it? charrlee

5:29pm Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
I didn't think it was from H Carroll. I know or knew most of the words of that. Just said I knew little of his other lyrics. Zanzinger was a tobacco farmer whose dad had 500 acres, hardly the Kennedys, for example; not really a scion of the rich and powerful as RZ would have liked him to be. His behaviour was odious but not egregious, I think you'll find, for the time. I have a Canadian friend, Professor at one of their universities who made a study of the case, rather a left wing person as it happens, and I have echoed his view.
And, all said and done, poor Hattie wouldn't have been chucking rocks at his bus, nor indeed vice versa.
Georgem ! It IS you, isn't it?
Don't answer that ! I withdraw the question and apolgise.

This forum is about opinions, not identities. I just remember reading comments by someone called Georgem who had a similar style to yours. Then he vanished. A pity. He/she was very witty.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: I didn't think it was from H Carroll. I know or knew most of the words of that. Just said I knew little of his other lyrics. Zanzinger was a tobacco farmer whose dad had 500 acres, hardly the Kennedys, for example; not really a scion of the rich and powerful as RZ would have liked him to be. His behaviour was odious but not egregious, I think you'll find, for the time. I have a Canadian friend, Professor at one of their universities who made a study of the case, rather a left wing person as it happens, and I have echoed his view. And, all said and done, poor Hattie wouldn't have been chucking rocks at his bus, nor indeed vice versa.[/p][/quote]Georgem ! It IS you, isn't it?[/p][/quote]Don't answer that ! I withdraw the question and apolgise. This forum is about opinions, not identities. I just remember reading comments by someone called Georgem who had a similar style to yours. Then he vanished. A pity. He/she was very witty. charrlee

5:37pm Sun 23 Feb 14

forest hump says...

charrlee wrote:
forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.
May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach.
"fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson.
I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour.
On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.
Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple.
I....I'm very, very sorry Mr Hump. To....."to tell the truth", I was......"please, and thank-you".........m

aking fun of your martinetish attitude.

Quite frankly, you sound far too dangerous to be going around on your own. On the other hand, get on out to Millbrook........

"Have you seen......that Vigilante Man..........."
Do you mean the Charles Bronson film or are you inferring to Woody Guthrie's ( or was it Ry Cooder) song? Interesting point re. Martinet. His techniques were very successful. Only downside...he was killed by friendly fire!! À bon chat, bon rat:
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.[/p][/quote]May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach. "fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson. I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour. On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.[/p][/quote]Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple.[/p][/quote]I....I'm very, very sorry Mr Hump. To....."to tell the truth", I was......"please, and thank-you".........m aking fun of your martinetish attitude. Quite frankly, you sound far too dangerous to be going around on your own. On the other hand, get on out to Millbrook........ "Have you seen......that Vigilante Man..........."[/p][/quote]Do you mean the Charles Bronson film or are you inferring to Woody Guthrie's ( or was it Ry Cooder) song? Interesting point re. Martinet. His techniques were very successful. Only downside...he was killed by friendly fire!! À bon chat, bon rat: forest hump

5:53pm Sun 23 Feb 14

charrlee says...

forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
forest hump wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
charrlee wrote:
Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!).
Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs.
Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce.
Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's).

Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever.

Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor.

Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think.

Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories.

Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.
I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.
My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo.
That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums.
It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster).
Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc".
Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think?
Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.
I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.
May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach.
"fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson.
I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour.
On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.
Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple.
I....I'm very, very sorry Mr Hump. To....."to tell the truth", I was......"please, and thank-you".........m


aking fun of your martinetish attitude.

Quite frankly, you sound far too dangerous to be going around on your own. On the other hand, get on out to Millbrook........

"Have you seen......that Vigilante Man..........."
Do you mean the Charles Bronson film or are you inferring to Woody Guthrie's ( or was it Ry Cooder) song? Interesting point re. Martinet. His techniques were very successful. Only downside...he was killed by friendly fire!! À bon chat, bon rat:
Yes, Guthrie wrote it as a jolly "Jimmie Rodgers" country song, Cooder did the slower more intense version, less verses, but with that beautiful bottleneck accompaniment.
[quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]forest hump[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: Go back 120 years. The poor and unemployed died of poverty and disease. Come forward to the 20's, 30's and 40's - the rise of socialism and the Labour party giving a voice to the underprivileged working classes (if they could get work!). Look at the 50's : the emergence of the welfare state and benefits. The working classes were able to use their voices (social services), and had rights to a basic quality of life, and if they were unemployed, they were supported by those who had jobs. Look at post-war Britain. The emergence of teenage culture : clothes, records, radios, motorbikes, etc. Look at all the cheap council houses and flats that were built. Look at the sexual revolution where people formed relationships and had children, without any money or prospects, and were looked after by the welfare state. Look at the rise of the quick and easy divorce. Look at education. The introduction of comprehensives and ROSLA in the 70's was rushed in, and for the last 40 years or more, endless governments and secretaries of state have failed miserably to get the system to work. We now have many generations of poorly-educated people trying to survive in a society that no longer needs them, and where the rich and privileged have appropriated most of the wealth (capitalism via conservativism, which has dominated politics in Britain since the 70's). Don't take my word for it : read the history books, Wikipedia, google it all - whatever. Yes, its all over-simplified, but take a tour round Southampton, round Britain, and it is staring you in the face : we have come full circle, back to the Victorian times, back to the huge divide between the wealthy and privileged, and the unemployable poor. Dylan : "When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal". I wonder how many Millbrookers and Townhill Parkers feel like that? Quite a few, I should think. Vandalism, abuse, violence, drugs. and all the gumps at the Echo can do is publish sensationalised "Wah! Look at that!" stories. Please don't pick on me for saying all this. Lets have some suggestions about how we can get ourselves out of this mess without the "lock em up/hang em high" rubbish.[/p][/quote]I notice that the Nazis are always invoked to "bolster" a spurious argument and I thought that charrlee was using Mr Zimmerman in the same way. But actually it's not really an argument; more like an exhortation to mass suicide. Hey charrlee cheer up . Yes we've all got unimaginably richer over the past 7 or 8 decades and it's nothing much to do with us and everything to do with oil. With it we've become cruder and more abrasive but hey Wayne Rooney's earning more money than God; we're doing ace in the 6 Nations and a scouser has just become a Prince of the Church. Cheer up. Go out and have a couple of sweet sherries at Wetherspoons and a beer battered cod. Things'll feel better, you see.[/p][/quote]My homegrounds are The Telegraph and The Times, where people tend to demonstrate a wealth of background knowledge and understanding about topics, where people engage and contribute well-thought-out original ideas, rather than snipe as they tend to do here at the Echo. That said, it is quite heartwarming to see so many sincere and thought-provoking comments on this particular story, so many of them more than one sentence long, thus breaching the shallow, "Twitter-mentality" trend that has blighted so many discussion forums. It is interesting that you broke the "Fawlty rule" by mentioning "the war" by way of the Nazis! Naughty, naughty! But I would be interested to know if you felt that a Hitler youth approach might help bring some cohesion back to our fractured society? (obviously without the racial and social prejudice that turned Hitler from a great reformer into an intolerable monster). Not quite with you on the "mass suicide" comment - could you elaborate? My quote from Dylan was based on the idea that many hardened criminal types, whatever their age, don't care what they do or what punishment they get as "When you got nuthin'....etc". Come on, Dai, there's a lot of work to be done before we can take a booze break, don't you think? Your comments re football/sport got me thinking : a "Robin Hood" tax might be useful. Many big earners, like footballers, have far more money than they need, Let them have a nice car and a sizeable house, but 100% cap that would divert excess wealth into helping the poor and underprivileged, and setting up manufacturing in the UK again, requiring training and good, old-fashioned skills might be a way to go. Capitalism has made people selfish and greedy. Donations to charities are not really the point - more a tax dodge than genuine altruism, aren't they? This is all "top of the head" stuff that hasn't been properly thought through, but the only one's who'll object to the principles are the financially obese, I'd guess.[/p][/quote]I presume your patronising comments are supposed to be funny? The solution to this problem is straightforward. Let's stop fannying around and bring back some discipline. Schools need to be able to punish these mouthy little brats who can get away with whatever they please. Parents need to step up and take some responsibility. This human rights' claptrap should be chucked out of the window. The only way to stop this behaviour is to make the consequences so frightening that the normal human being is scared senseless to attempt. We have become a nation of lily-livered liberal pansies. I was brought up strictly. I was taught to live by principles, the main ones being :- "say please: say thank you and tell the truth" and look out if you renege on these principles. Society has become soft and we are paying right now. Stop all of this being nice and forgiveness nonsense and Bring back some good solid principles and the power to impose.[/p][/quote]May I suggest that just because you FIND something patronising does not mean that it IS, or that it was intended to be. I apologise if you found it so, but it will not deter me from my "speak as you find" approach. "fannying around" indeed! Not heard that expression since "Thin Blue Line"with Rowan Atkinson. I'm sorry to hear about your cruel, brutal upbringing. Let's hope it doesn't turn you into a power-obsessed deviant in old age.........er....at the risk of sounding patronising, or daring an attempt at humour. On a more serious note, please do not call me, or the rest of the country, "a nation of lily-livered pansies". I suspect that, if no-one else, our army, navy, and airforce would feel compelled to challenge your assessment.[/p][/quote]Where did I say my upbringing was either "cruel" or "brutal"? I respected my parents who, had morals and standards....both of which are lacking in current school curricula. Using the accusation "lily-livered pansies" I, of course was referring to the majority....Those who blather on about having rights, those who are not man enough to kick out hate-inciting Clerics but leave it to our aged liberal judicial system which bows down to EU rule. Those who are spineless, mainly those in politics who see no further than lining their own pockets and egos. Those who scowl at our brave forces who risk lives and have died in conflicts in order to liberate. Again, it is simple.[/p][/quote]I....I'm very, very sorry Mr Hump. To....."to tell the truth", I was......"please, and thank-you".........m aking fun of your martinetish attitude. Quite frankly, you sound far too dangerous to be going around on your own. On the other hand, get on out to Millbrook........ "Have you seen......that Vigilante Man..........."[/p][/quote]Do you mean the Charles Bronson film or are you inferring to Woody Guthrie's ( or was it Ry Cooder) song? Interesting point re. Martinet. His techniques were very successful. Only downside...he was killed by friendly fire!! À bon chat, bon rat:[/p][/quote]Yes, Guthrie wrote it as a jolly "Jimmie Rodgers" country song, Cooder did the slower more intense version, less verses, but with that beautiful bottleneck accompaniment. charrlee

5:54pm Sun 23 Feb 14

Donald2000 says...

charrlee wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
Turtlebay wrote:
"Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. "

Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out?
Because then they will find what they expect to find, precisely nothing. You don't think they will send out a battle bus when they expect trouble do you. Anyone would think the bus companies are brave. But of course they are just as cowardly as the people who smash their windows. If they were brave, then their windows would not get smashed.

As ever, logic is absent in these arguments.
Just thought. Take out ALL the windows from ALL the buses, then passengers could throw the rocks back........or better still, come armed with grenades and flame throwers! Now THAT'S what I'd call a battle bus!

(Just a bit of fun to amuse or annoy)
Thank you for your reply. What this boils down to is sheer cowardice on the part of the public to either put a stop to their kids doing this or to volunteer to the police that their kids have done it. So the kids, following the example of cowardice from their own parents think that it is alright to do it.

On these estates what you have therefore is a sheer lack of any moral fibre that any of them might be part of this society with the rest of us. Until you get people who are likely to grow a pair in these circumstances you are going to get this situation.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Turtlebay[/bold] wrote: "Now the company is ready to deploy its “battle bus”. " Why wait until the END of the half term break before sending it out?[/p][/quote]Because then they will find what they expect to find, precisely nothing. You don't think they will send out a battle bus when they expect trouble do you. Anyone would think the bus companies are brave. But of course they are just as cowardly as the people who smash their windows. If they were brave, then their windows would not get smashed. As ever, logic is absent in these arguments.[/p][/quote]Just thought. Take out ALL the windows from ALL the buses, then passengers could throw the rocks back........or better still, come armed with grenades and flame throwers! Now THAT'S what I'd call a battle bus! (Just a bit of fun to amuse or annoy)[/p][/quote]Thank you for your reply. What this boils down to is sheer cowardice on the part of the public to either put a stop to their kids doing this or to volunteer to the police that their kids have done it. So the kids, following the example of cowardice from their own parents think that it is alright to do it. On these estates what you have therefore is a sheer lack of any moral fibre that any of them might be part of this society with the rest of us. Until you get people who are likely to grow a pair in these circumstances you are going to get this situation. Donald2000

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree