MP John Denham calls on Government to keep shipbuilding local if Scotland leaves UK

Daily Echo: Plea to keep shipbuilding in Hampshire Plea to keep shipbuilding in Hampshire

SOUTHAMPTON MP John Denham has called for the Government to keep ship-building in Hampshire if Scotland breaks away from the UK.

The Itchen MP was speaking after his Labour colleague, Shadow Defence spokesman Vernon Coaker, said the UK Government would be unlikely to give key defence contracts to Scottish firms if the country votes for independence later this year.

Last year it was announced almost 1,000 jobs will be lost at BAE System’s Portsmouth shipbuilding base, while the firm will maintain its operations in Scotland.

Mr Denham said: “The Government is shifting work away from Portsmouth and letting the workforce drift away even though, if the referendum goes against the UK, Portsmouth will be needed more than ever.”

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7:17am Sun 20 Apr 14

Woolston woman Jane says...

I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter.
I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter. Woolston woman Jane
  • Score: 8

7:35am Sun 20 Apr 14

IanUnite says...

The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing. IanUnite
  • Score: 5

8:44am Sun 20 Apr 14

The Wickham Man says...

IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout
h.co.uk/news/local/m
p-takes-fight-for-sh
ipbuilding-yard-to-t
he-top-1-4678386
[quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout h.co.uk/news/local/m p-takes-fight-for-sh ipbuilding-yard-to-t he-top-1-4678386 The Wickham Man
  • Score: 1

10:14am Sun 20 Apr 14

Torchie1 says...

IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry.
[quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

10:55am Sun 20 Apr 14

Bobs Your Uncle ? says...

Good soundbite from the neoliberal , sheep farming in barnet is about as likely.
Good soundbite from the neoliberal , sheep farming in barnet is about as likely. Bobs Your Uncle ?
  • Score: -4

11:08am Sun 20 Apr 14

Linesman says...

Woolston woman Jane wrote:
I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter.
This is Not about our City, it is about our Country.

Vospers moved to a larger base, and not jobs were lost as it was easy commuting distance.

I doubt that many would want to commute to Scotland.
[quote][p][bold]Woolston woman Jane[/bold] wrote: I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter.[/p][/quote]This is Not about our City, it is about our Country. Vospers moved to a larger base, and not jobs were lost as it was easy commuting distance. I doubt that many would want to commute to Scotland. Linesman
  • Score: -4

11:18am Sun 20 Apr 14

mike coll says...

Has this spineless wonder found the balls to meet Mark Thomas yet???? the answer is NO, check out you tube mark thomas, john denham for the film clip of denhem locking himself away hiding from mark.
I met denhem once at a social event in london many years ago, cant say I came away impressed.
Has this spineless wonder found the balls to meet Mark Thomas yet???? the answer is NO, check out you tube mark thomas, john denham for the film clip of denhem locking himself away hiding from mark. I met denhem once at a social event in london many years ago, cant say I came away impressed. mike coll
  • Score: -3

11:49am Sun 20 Apr 14

derek james says...

IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
mass immigration doesn't help much either, depressing the already low wages of unskilled workers and leading to zero hours contracts
[quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]mass immigration doesn't help much either, depressing the already low wages of unskilled workers and leading to zero hours contracts derek james
  • Score: -3

1:57pm Sun 20 Apr 14

Fatty x Ford Worker says...

You are a bit late Mate Woolston gone!
You are a bit late Mate Woolston gone! Fatty x Ford Worker
  • Score: 3

2:07pm Sun 20 Apr 14

binghammac says...

Did'nt hear much for this poor excuse for an MP when Ford were given £80million by the European Investment Bank (part of the European Commission) to start or expand Transit production in Turkey, a country not even in the European Union and Ford subsequently closed Eastleigh production of the Transit. Somebody should be asking this poor excuse of an MP why the £80 million was not spent in the UK. 1400, plus untold hundreds in ancilliary work, lost their jobs. Well done Denham and Labour.
Did'nt hear much for this poor excuse for an MP when Ford were given £80million by the European Investment Bank (part of the European Commission) to start or expand Transit production in Turkey, a country not even in the European Union and Ford subsequently closed Eastleigh production of the Transit. Somebody should be asking this poor excuse of an MP why the £80 million was not spent in the UK. 1400, plus untold hundreds in ancilliary work, lost their jobs. Well done Denham and Labour. binghammac
  • Score: 13

3:00pm Sun 20 Apr 14

IanUnite says...

The Wickham Man wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout

h.co.uk/news/local/m

p-takes-fight-for-sh

ipbuilding-yard-to-t

he-top-1-4678386
Interesting point which is as old as the hills. Unfotunately free enterprise/the free market has also had a dismal record (Financial crisis anyone?) we have also seen in the last 30 year s the disappearance of industry from the UK despite the weakest employment laws in the OECD (werent the destruction of unions and flexible labour laws meant to keep and attract business here? Didnt happen did it. it just meant it was easier for business to go.)

You are going to have to do a bit better than that Im afraid.
[quote][p][bold]The Wickham Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout h.co.uk/news/local/m p-takes-fight-for-sh ipbuilding-yard-to-t he-top-1-4678386[/p][/quote]Interesting point which is as old as the hills. Unfotunately free enterprise/the free market has also had a dismal record (Financial crisis anyone?) we have also seen in the last 30 year s the disappearance of industry from the UK despite the weakest employment laws in the OECD (werent the destruction of unions and flexible labour laws meant to keep and attract business here? Didnt happen did it. it just meant it was easier for business to go.) You are going to have to do a bit better than that Im afraid. IanUnite
  • Score: 2

3:06pm Sun 20 Apr 14

IanUnite says...

Torchie1 wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry.
Oh I see. North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela (only possibly??) Socialism? Who stated that?

The old chestnuts have been roasted and are about to be served but oh wait! We are completely uncritical of the awful decisions made by consecutive government working within the free market. I thought you could be a bit more original that that.
The announcement to close shipbuilding was made when our wonderful Penny was to jump of a diving board for a reality TV programme. Pull the other one Torchie.
Pompey Labour have been for more active fighting for shipbuilding than our Penny!!
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry.[/p][/quote]Oh I see. North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela (only possibly??) Socialism? Who stated that? The old chestnuts have been roasted and are about to be served but oh wait! We are completely uncritical of the awful decisions made by consecutive government working within the free market. I thought you could be a bit more original that that. The announcement to close shipbuilding was made when our wonderful Penny was to jump of a diving board for a reality TV programme. Pull the other one Torchie. Pompey Labour have been for more active fighting for shipbuilding than our Penny!! IanUnite
  • Score: 2

4:03pm Sun 20 Apr 14

Torchie1 says...

IanUnite wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry.
Oh I see. North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela (only possibly??) Socialism? Who stated that?

The old chestnuts have been roasted and are about to be served but oh wait! We are completely uncritical of the awful decisions made by consecutive government working within the free market. I thought you could be a bit more original that that.
The announcement to close shipbuilding was made when our wonderful Penny was to jump of a diving board for a reality TV programme. Pull the other one Torchie.
Pompey Labour have been for more active fighting for shipbuilding than our Penny!!
Look around your house and claim a brownie point for every electrical item made in the UK. Where were your kitchen appliances made, or your car? You can't prevent people buying cheaper items made abroad unless you enforce import tariffs and then you find your own exports taking the hit when other countries retaliate.now apply the same logic to shipbuilding where you are competing with Korean, Finnish, German or Italian yards that can produce an excellent product for substantially less than it's UK equivalent. It's tough but the UK is a small cog in a global economy where protectionism can't assist and isolationism isn't an option. I sympathise with your view on life but we've moved on from the 1970s and for better or worse we have to make the best of it, the Global Village, the Global Market , that's the future and you can't change it.
[quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry.[/p][/quote]Oh I see. North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela (only possibly??) Socialism? Who stated that? The old chestnuts have been roasted and are about to be served but oh wait! We are completely uncritical of the awful decisions made by consecutive government working within the free market. I thought you could be a bit more original that that. The announcement to close shipbuilding was made when our wonderful Penny was to jump of a diving board for a reality TV programme. Pull the other one Torchie. Pompey Labour have been for more active fighting for shipbuilding than our Penny!![/p][/quote]Look around your house and claim a brownie point for every electrical item made in the UK. Where were your kitchen appliances made, or your car? You can't prevent people buying cheaper items made abroad unless you enforce import tariffs and then you find your own exports taking the hit when other countries retaliate.now apply the same logic to shipbuilding where you are competing with Korean, Finnish, German or Italian yards that can produce an excellent product for substantially less than it's UK equivalent. It's tough but the UK is a small cog in a global economy where protectionism can't assist and isolationism isn't an option. I sympathise with your view on life but we've moved on from the 1970s and for better or worse we have to make the best of it, the Global Village, the Global Market , that's the future and you can't change it. Torchie1
  • Score: -3

4:37pm Sun 20 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Woolston woman Jane wrote:
I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter.
Did you mean when politically dodgy John Denham used to 'pretend' to be a socialist because at that time it politically helped him to get selected, with the help of Trotskyists ( Militant) against Bryan Gould who was and still remains genuine socialist with true Labour values?

Strangely even the so called Trotskyists who rightly criticise Denham these days remain conveniently quite over their own contribution to political rise of Denham and many other NuLabourites of his kind.

In all fairness Denham is an exceptionally clever guy. Exceptionally good at predicting the direction of political winds. Champion of sound bites to suit the occasion can always count on people to forget his and NuLabour government's Thatcherised record.

If JD is really interested in the plight of workers in ship building and repair industry, why did he remain quite when VT's place in Woolston (in his own constituency) was closed?

Pity everybody hasn't got long memory span like you, which suits him and NuLabour's mouth pieces / attack dogs on this site.
[quote][p][bold]Woolston woman Jane[/bold] wrote: I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter.[/p][/quote]Did you mean when politically dodgy John Denham used to 'pretend' to be a socialist because at that time it politically helped him to get selected, with the help of Trotskyists ( Militant) against Bryan Gould who was and still remains genuine socialist with true Labour values? Strangely even the so called Trotskyists who rightly criticise Denham these days remain conveniently quite over their own contribution to political rise of Denham and many other NuLabourites of his kind. In all fairness Denham is an exceptionally clever guy. Exceptionally good at predicting the direction of political winds. Champion of sound bites to suit the occasion can always count on people to forget his and NuLabour government's Thatcherised record. If JD is really interested in the plight of workers in ship building and repair industry, why did he remain quite when VT's place in Woolston (in his own constituency) was closed? Pity everybody hasn't got long memory span like you, which suits him and NuLabour's mouth pieces / attack dogs on this site. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 2

4:37pm Sun 20 Apr 14

IanUnite says...

Torchie1 wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry.
Oh I see. North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela (only possibly??) Socialism? Who stated that?

The old chestnuts have been roasted and are about to be served but oh wait! We are completely uncritical of the awful decisions made by consecutive government working within the free market. I thought you could be a bit more original that that.
The announcement to close shipbuilding was made when our wonderful Penny was to jump of a diving board for a reality TV programme. Pull the other one Torchie.
Pompey Labour have been for more active fighting for shipbuilding than our Penny!!
Look around your house and claim a brownie point for every electrical item made in the UK. Where were your kitchen appliances made, or your car? You can't prevent people buying cheaper items made abroad unless you enforce import tariffs and then you find your own exports taking the hit when other countries retaliate.now apply the same logic to shipbuilding where you are competing with Korean, Finnish, German or Italian yards that can produce an excellent product for substantially less than it's UK equivalent. It's tough but the UK is a small cog in a global economy where protectionism can't assist and isolationism isn't an option. I sympathise with your view on life but we've moved on from the 1970s and for better or worse we have to make the best of it, the Global Village, the Global Market , that's the future and you can't change it.
Ok. At least I know where you stand. Immigration=bad, outsourcing uk jobs=good. Thanks for letting me know.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]All jolly good ideas that will create a country capable of trading with other fruit loop nations like North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela. If only socialism could legislate for the inconvenience of the competitive human nature, it would be home and dry.[/p][/quote]Oh I see. North Korea, Cuba and possibly Venezuela (only possibly??) Socialism? Who stated that? The old chestnuts have been roasted and are about to be served but oh wait! We are completely uncritical of the awful decisions made by consecutive government working within the free market. I thought you could be a bit more original that that. The announcement to close shipbuilding was made when our wonderful Penny was to jump of a diving board for a reality TV programme. Pull the other one Torchie. Pompey Labour have been for more active fighting for shipbuilding than our Penny!![/p][/quote]Look around your house and claim a brownie point for every electrical item made in the UK. Where were your kitchen appliances made, or your car? You can't prevent people buying cheaper items made abroad unless you enforce import tariffs and then you find your own exports taking the hit when other countries retaliate.now apply the same logic to shipbuilding where you are competing with Korean, Finnish, German or Italian yards that can produce an excellent product for substantially less than it's UK equivalent. It's tough but the UK is a small cog in a global economy where protectionism can't assist and isolationism isn't an option. I sympathise with your view on life but we've moved on from the 1970s and for better or worse we have to make the best of it, the Global Village, the Global Market , that's the future and you can't change it.[/p][/quote]Ok. At least I know where you stand. Immigration=bad, outsourcing uk jobs=good. Thanks for letting me know. IanUnite
  • Score: 3

7:09pm Sun 20 Apr 14

Linesman says...

binghammac wrote:
Did'nt hear much for this poor excuse for an MP when Ford were given £80million by the European Investment Bank (part of the European Commission) to start or expand Transit production in Turkey, a country not even in the European Union and Ford subsequently closed Eastleigh production of the Transit. Somebody should be asking this poor excuse of an MP why the £80 million was not spent in the UK. 1400, plus untold hundreds in ancilliary work, lost their jobs. Well done Denham and Labour.
Surely Ford was in the Eastleigh constituency, under the tender care of a LibDem MP.
[quote][p][bold]binghammac[/bold] wrote: Did'nt hear much for this poor excuse for an MP when Ford were given £80million by the European Investment Bank (part of the European Commission) to start or expand Transit production in Turkey, a country not even in the European Union and Ford subsequently closed Eastleigh production of the Transit. Somebody should be asking this poor excuse of an MP why the £80 million was not spent in the UK. 1400, plus untold hundreds in ancilliary work, lost their jobs. Well done Denham and Labour.[/p][/quote]Surely Ford was in the Eastleigh constituency, under the tender care of a LibDem MP. Linesman
  • Score: 0

7:23pm Sun 20 Apr 14

binghammac says...

Linesman wrote:
binghammac wrote:
Did'nt hear much for this poor excuse for an MP when Ford were given £80million by the European Investment Bank (part of the European Commission) to start or expand Transit production in Turkey, a country not even in the European Union and Ford subsequently closed Eastleigh production of the Transit. Somebody should be asking this poor excuse of an MP why the £80 million was not spent in the UK. 1400, plus untold hundreds in ancilliary work, lost their jobs. Well done Denham and Labour.
Surely Ford was in the Eastleigh constituency, under the tender care of a LibDem MP.
Shipbuilding ceased in Southampton a long time ago and, furthermore, it is a poor MP if he or she confines matters of such import to their own territory. The nearest shipbuilding is in Portsmouth, so perhaps you can see your way clear to admonish him for passing comments about employment in in a territory, according to you, not under his "tender care". Denham is and has been a useless, opportunistic MP.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]binghammac[/bold] wrote: Did'nt hear much for this poor excuse for an MP when Ford were given £80million by the European Investment Bank (part of the European Commission) to start or expand Transit production in Turkey, a country not even in the European Union and Ford subsequently closed Eastleigh production of the Transit. Somebody should be asking this poor excuse of an MP why the £80 million was not spent in the UK. 1400, plus untold hundreds in ancilliary work, lost their jobs. Well done Denham and Labour.[/p][/quote]Surely Ford was in the Eastleigh constituency, under the tender care of a LibDem MP.[/p][/quote]Shipbuilding ceased in Southampton a long time ago and, furthermore, it is a poor MP if he or she confines matters of such import to their own territory. The nearest shipbuilding is in Portsmouth, so perhaps you can see your way clear to admonish him for passing comments about employment in in a territory, according to you, not under his "tender care". Denham is and has been a useless, opportunistic MP. binghammac
  • Score: 0

9:13pm Sun 20 Apr 14

WalkingOnAWire says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Woolston woman Jane wrote:
I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter.
Did you mean when politically dodgy John Denham used to 'pretend' to be a socialist because at that time it politically helped him to get selected, with the help of Trotskyists ( Militant) against Bryan Gould who was and still remains genuine socialist with true Labour values?

Strangely even the so called Trotskyists who rightly criticise Denham these days remain conveniently quite over their own contribution to political rise of Denham and many other NuLabourites of his kind.

In all fairness Denham is an exceptionally clever guy. Exceptionally good at predicting the direction of political winds. Champion of sound bites to suit the occasion can always count on people to forget his and NuLabour government's Thatcherised record.

If JD is really interested in the plight of workers in ship building and repair industry, why did he remain quite when VT's place in Woolston (in his own constituency) was closed?

Pity everybody hasn't got long memory span like you, which suits him and NuLabour's mouth pieces / attack dogs on this site.
Denham also had the conviction and strength of principle to resign his cabinet position in protest at the Iraq war. He deserves a lot of respect purely for that.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woolston woman Jane[/bold] wrote: I would have appreciated some support like this before Vospers closed in Woolston but I don't recall it happening. John Denham is a very poor ambassador for our city and I'll be glad to see the back of him. I remember when he used to be socialist. Cue for much laughter.[/p][/quote]Did you mean when politically dodgy John Denham used to 'pretend' to be a socialist because at that time it politically helped him to get selected, with the help of Trotskyists ( Militant) against Bryan Gould who was and still remains genuine socialist with true Labour values? Strangely even the so called Trotskyists who rightly criticise Denham these days remain conveniently quite over their own contribution to political rise of Denham and many other NuLabourites of his kind. In all fairness Denham is an exceptionally clever guy. Exceptionally good at predicting the direction of political winds. Champion of sound bites to suit the occasion can always count on people to forget his and NuLabour government's Thatcherised record. If JD is really interested in the plight of workers in ship building and repair industry, why did he remain quite when VT's place in Woolston (in his own constituency) was closed? Pity everybody hasn't got long memory span like you, which suits him and NuLabour's mouth pieces / attack dogs on this site.[/p][/quote]Denham also had the conviction and strength of principle to resign his cabinet position in protest at the Iraq war. He deserves a lot of respect purely for that. WalkingOnAWire
  • Score: 1

9:47pm Sun 20 Apr 14

loosehead says...

When a Labour Southampton council had given Vospers the planning consent to expand their yard into the river Vospers were happy.
It was a Portsmouth Council who informed them of how cheap they could acquire the Royal Navy docks it wasn't the size at all.
NO Denham didn't fight to keep it here but is fighting for Portsmouth?
We have lost Martini,BAT, Vospers,Pirelli & Ford oh! & Solent Canners now we heard a whimper from one of our Labour MP's about Ford but did we hear anything about the rest of them?
When a Labour Southampton council had given Vospers the planning consent to expand their yard into the river Vospers were happy. It was a Portsmouth Council who informed them of how cheap they could acquire the Royal Navy docks it wasn't the size at all. NO Denham didn't fight to keep it here but is fighting for Portsmouth? We have lost Martini,BAT, Vospers,Pirelli & Ford oh! & Solent Canners now we heard a whimper from one of our Labour MP's about Ford but did we hear anything about the rest of them? loosehead
  • Score: 1

11:05pm Sun 20 Apr 14

The Wickham Man says...

IanUnite wrote:
The Wickham Man wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout


h.co.uk/news/local/m


p-takes-fight-for-sh


ipbuilding-yard-to-t


he-top-1-4678386
Interesting point which is as old as the hills. Unfotunately free enterprise/the free market has also had a dismal record (Financial crisis anyone?) we have also seen in the last 30 year s the disappearance of industry from the UK despite the weakest employment laws in the OECD (werent the destruction of unions and flexible labour laws meant to keep and attract business here? Didnt happen did it. it just meant it was easier for business to go.)

You are going to have to do a bit better than that Im afraid.
You need to get one thing straight - Unite - or you - are not going to lecture anyone on economic solutions after the altered and spun garbage that Unite put out rather than conducting an economic debate on objective data. You must either be guilty or mad to include their name as part of your monicker. Manufacturing industry has declined in the UK - anyone can see that - but Unite have not identified the causes or proposed viable working solutions based on the correct causes. All we have got from Unite is misguided dogmatic drivel around bankers and fat cats - oversimplified soundbites for underqualified simpletons. Is that what you are proposing to offer up here? Let's hear it then, starting with blanket protectionism and its consequences.
[quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Wickham Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout h.co.uk/news/local/m p-takes-fight-for-sh ipbuilding-yard-to-t he-top-1-4678386[/p][/quote]Interesting point which is as old as the hills. Unfotunately free enterprise/the free market has also had a dismal record (Financial crisis anyone?) we have also seen in the last 30 year s the disappearance of industry from the UK despite the weakest employment laws in the OECD (werent the destruction of unions and flexible labour laws meant to keep and attract business here? Didnt happen did it. it just meant it was easier for business to go.) You are going to have to do a bit better than that Im afraid.[/p][/quote]You need to get one thing straight - Unite - or you - are not going to lecture anyone on economic solutions after the altered and spun garbage that Unite put out rather than conducting an economic debate on objective data. You must either be guilty or mad to include their name as part of your monicker. Manufacturing industry has declined in the UK - anyone can see that - but Unite have not identified the causes or proposed viable working solutions based on the correct causes. All we have got from Unite is misguided dogmatic drivel around bankers and fat cats - oversimplified soundbites for underqualified simpletons. Is that what you are proposing to offer up here? Let's hear it then, starting with blanket protectionism and its consequences. The Wickham Man
  • Score: 1

11:11pm Sun 20 Apr 14

Ronnie G says...

When JD makes a plea for something to be saved, you know it's a goner.
But at least he can say he tried...
When JD makes a plea for something to be saved, you know it's a goner. But at least he can say he tried... Ronnie G
  • Score: 1

4:32pm Mon 21 Apr 14

IanUnite says...

The Wickham Man wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
The Wickham Man wrote:
IanUnite wrote:
The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model.
We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.
Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout



h.co.uk/news/local/m



p-takes-fight-for-sh



ipbuilding-yard-to-t



he-top-1-4678386
Interesting point which is as old as the hills. Unfotunately free enterprise/the free market has also had a dismal record (Financial crisis anyone?) we have also seen in the last 30 year s the disappearance of industry from the UK despite the weakest employment laws in the OECD (werent the destruction of unions and flexible labour laws meant to keep and attract business here? Didnt happen did it. it just meant it was easier for business to go.)

You are going to have to do a bit better than that Im afraid.
You need to get one thing straight - Unite - or you - are not going to lecture anyone on economic solutions after the altered and spun garbage that Unite put out rather than conducting an economic debate on objective data. You must either be guilty or mad to include their name as part of your monicker. Manufacturing industry has declined in the UK - anyone can see that - but Unite have not identified the causes or proposed viable working solutions based on the correct causes. All we have got from Unite is misguided dogmatic drivel around bankers and fat cats - oversimplified soundbites for underqualified simpletons. Is that what you are proposing to offer up here? Let's hear it then, starting with blanket protectionism and its consequences.
"but Unite have not identified the causes or proposed viable working solutions based on the correct causes."

What on earth does that mean? What were you saying about drivel?

Also bit of advice. Calm down before you post. Give yourself a couple of days or else all your personal political prejudices come through and you end up covering your keyboard with spit.
[quote][p][bold]The Wickham Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Wickham Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanUnite[/bold] wrote: The problem isn't JD. The problem is an economy based on Neo liberalism, low wages , outsourcing and off shoring. All parties are guilty because the country works within that economic model. We need to change our politics. We need to debate public ownership, a strong collective bargaining strategy but most of all a realistic long term industrial strategy for manufacturing in the UK that doesn't rely on the current free market, race to the bottom models so loved by a both Tony Blair and David Cameron. The loss of shipbuilding in Portsmouth is this governments failure. If you think JD is quiet just look at what Tory Penny Morduant MP is doing in Portsmouth. Absolutely nothing.[/p][/quote]Agree with the some of your complaints but not your remedies. Collective bargaining does exactly what you are complaining about and gives lot of people carte blanche to do the minimum work knowing their wages will not be affected. It happened in the seventies so it's not even conjecture. I don't know why you've taken an uninformed unchecked sideswipe at Penny Mordaunt because you are wrong (Actually I do know - it is obvious). Try http://www.portsmout h.co.uk/news/local/m p-takes-fight-for-sh ipbuilding-yard-to-t he-top-1-4678386[/p][/quote]Interesting point which is as old as the hills. Unfotunately free enterprise/the free market has also had a dismal record (Financial crisis anyone?) we have also seen in the last 30 year s the disappearance of industry from the UK despite the weakest employment laws in the OECD (werent the destruction of unions and flexible labour laws meant to keep and attract business here? Didnt happen did it. it just meant it was easier for business to go.) You are going to have to do a bit better than that Im afraid.[/p][/quote]You need to get one thing straight - Unite - or you - are not going to lecture anyone on economic solutions after the altered and spun garbage that Unite put out rather than conducting an economic debate on objective data. You must either be guilty or mad to include their name as part of your monicker. Manufacturing industry has declined in the UK - anyone can see that - but Unite have not identified the causes or proposed viable working solutions based on the correct causes. All we have got from Unite is misguided dogmatic drivel around bankers and fat cats - oversimplified soundbites for underqualified simpletons. Is that what you are proposing to offer up here? Let's hear it then, starting with blanket protectionism and its consequences.[/p][/quote]"but Unite have not identified the causes or proposed viable working solutions based on the correct causes." What on earth does that mean? What were you saying about drivel? Also bit of advice. Calm down before you post. Give yourself a couple of days or else all your personal political prejudices come through and you end up covering your keyboard with spit. IanUnite
  • Score: -1

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