Claims Muslims are not renouncing Iraq violence angers Southampton mosque leader

Displaced Iraqis from the Yazidi community, persecuted by ISIS, gather for humanitarian aid.

Rashid Brora.

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Senior Reporter

A leading Islamic figure in Southampton has hit back at claims that British Muslims are not condemning the current violence in Iraq.

Following the ongoing attacks by ISIS against people living in Iraq, questions have been raised about why more isn’t being done by Muslims in this country to condemn the brutality.

An article, written by “leading Muslim voice” Dr Taj Hargey, director of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford and Imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, called on British Muslims to denounce ISIS.

But, angered by the claims, the secretary of Medina Mosque in St Mary’s, Rashid Brora, has hit out, arguing that Muslims are actively against the horrifying violence.

In his article, Dr Hargey said: “What is terribly worrying is that, in the face of the ISIS atrocities and extremist British Muslims’ involvement in jihadism, mainstream Muslims here have remained largely silent at what is happening in Iraq today.

“Where is the mass outcry against the systematic killing of the Iraqi Yazidis, the deadly harassment of Christians and the mindless destruction of their churches?”

Mr Brora responded: “ISIS does this supposedly in the name of Islam. Islam is not about violence. Most of the press don’t report that Muslims are against it because it isn’t interesting news.

“Even if you look at the Muslim Council of Britain website, it gives you a very real idea of how bad the situation is. If you were to say that ISIS or Al-Qaeda were terrorists we would agree. They are not acting in the way of Islam.”

In the last week about 100,000 Christians have fled towns in northern Iraq.

There is also growing concern about tens of thousands of Yazidi civilians – a pre-Muslim religious minority – who are surrounded by ISIS.

Mr Brora added that he knew of no one from Southampton who was considering joining ISIS, saying: “We would urge them not to. We wouldn’t want people to take that route, it is an inappropriate route.”

A statement on the Muslim Council of Britain’s website said that it is “increasingly disturbed by the serious and deteriorating humanitarian situation in northern Iraq”.

It added: “The actions of ISIS and in particular their barbarity against minority groups, have been rightly condemned by all parts of the religious and political spectrum.

“The Muslim Council of Britain joins in their condemnation, and urges the British government to provide humanitarian aid to those suffering, as well as support efforts to prevent funding and arms reaching ISIS.

“We hope the Iraqi people from all backgrounds can unite to defeat this group.”

Comments (21)

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1:06pm Mon 18 Aug 14

sotonboy84 says...

This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001.

You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name.

However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.
This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001. You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name. However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause. sotonboy84
  • Score: 19

1:26pm Mon 18 Aug 14

sarfhamton says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001.

You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name.

However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.
I would think most Muslim's are so far removed from this that having to constantly deny being violent would be a bit odd.

As a Protestant i see no reason why i should distance myself from Loyalist Paramilitaries in Northern Ireland.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001. You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name. However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.[/p][/quote]I would think most Muslim's are so far removed from this that having to constantly deny being violent would be a bit odd. As a Protestant i see no reason why i should distance myself from Loyalist Paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. sarfhamton
  • Score: 1

1:33pm Mon 18 Aug 14

southy says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001.

You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name.

However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.
A problem that was created by the western world, and now whats going on our government are unwilling to help those on the mountain. They will not help because they want to keep the area destablise.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001. You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name. However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.[/p][/quote]A problem that was created by the western world, and now whats going on our government are unwilling to help those on the mountain. They will not help because they want to keep the area destablise. southy
  • Score: -2

3:20pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Reality50 says...

Muslims say silent on Hamas,Hezbollah,Boko Haram,Al Queda,Isis etc. They always have and always will,such is their hypocrisy. Is it any wonder that Muslims are so disliked around the world?.
Muslims say silent on Hamas,Hezbollah,Boko Haram,Al Queda,Isis etc. They always have and always will,such is their hypocrisy. Is it any wonder that Muslims are so disliked around the world?. Reality50
  • Score: 0

5:29pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001.

You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name.

However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.
A problem that was created by the western world, and now whats going on our government are unwilling to help those on the mountain. They will not help because they want to keep the area destablise.
We should do more to help these people granted, but as someone who has nothing to do all day but watch BBC news channels and regurgitate what they report as you see fit to Trotsky propaganda, you must have missed the bit where RAF Tornadoes where deployed to survey the surrounding areas.

You have, of course, made donations to Oxfam and Save the Children to do your bit rather haven't you?

Yes, of course you have. Unfortunately just watching the news all day won't help these people.

Well done, all the same.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001. You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name. However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.[/p][/quote]A problem that was created by the western world, and now whats going on our government are unwilling to help those on the mountain. They will not help because they want to keep the area destablise.[/p][/quote]We should do more to help these people granted, but as someone who has nothing to do all day but watch BBC news channels and regurgitate what they report as you see fit to Trotsky propaganda, you must have missed the bit where RAF Tornadoes where deployed to survey the surrounding areas. You have, of course, made donations to Oxfam and Save the Children to do your bit rather haven't you? Yes, of course you have. Unfortunately just watching the news all day won't help these people. Well done, all the same. Shoong
  • Score: 1

5:55pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Pounce says...

" Islam is not about violence. Most of the press don’t report that Muslims are against it because it isn’t interesting news."

Ok, help me here, how many people have seen Muslims in the Uk protesting about:
The London bombings in 2005
The murder of Soldier Lee Rigby
The attacks on the WTC
The bombings in Madrid
The attacks by Hamas in Israel
The Killing fields of Syria
The killing fields of Nigeria
The killing fields of Somalia
The killing fields of Yemen
The killing fields of Pakistan

But harm the hair of a terrorists and they are up in arms by the thousands playing the 'Islamophobia' card.

Double standards and its there in the public eye for all to see. Anybody want to call me a racist. I am a brown skinned EX muslim and I know what I am talking about.
" Islam is not about violence. Most of the press don’t report that Muslims are against it because it isn’t interesting news." Ok, help me here, how many people have seen Muslims in the Uk protesting about: The London bombings in 2005 The murder of Soldier Lee Rigby The attacks on the WTC The bombings in Madrid The attacks by Hamas in Israel The Killing fields of Syria The killing fields of Nigeria The killing fields of Somalia The killing fields of Yemen The killing fields of Pakistan But harm the hair of a terrorists and they are up in arms by the thousands playing the 'Islamophobia' card. Double standards and its there in the public eye for all to see. Anybody want to call me a racist. I am a brown skinned EX muslim and I know what I am talking about. Pounce
  • Score: 3

6:39pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

All communities / societies / religious groups etc have both good and bad people, Muslims are no different.

It is the job of the police and security services to find the criminals, whoever they may be, arrest them, produce those in front of the courts, which should be doing a proper job of locking them up.

Sadly over last few decade, our governments of all parties have not been a good role models themselves. They along with USA and others shouldn't have financed and trained religious fanatics for using them in Afghanistan, shouldn't have destabilised most of the Middle East, where they also courted many of the people who are now proving to be a big problem.

Most of the dictators and tyrants ruling Middle East may not be what we with so called 'Western democratic values' like, but a) we should not be dictating how other nations run their own internal affairs nor they should be allowed to do the same to us..... b) At least under tyrants like Sadam Hussain and Gadaffi there were no Al Qeada and ISIS.

What message were our nations so called leaders were sending out to many confised young people when they were praising unrest in Syria and supporting anti government elements in Syrian civil war?------ Which in many cases could have made foolish or misguided morons to think that they too in their own minds brain washed by propaganda of religious fundamentalists are supporting the same struggle.

Even now it is difficult to understand the logic of our so called leaders. Supporting the dangerous mob in Syria but opposing the off shoots of the same lot in Iraq can hardly make any sense.

YES, our government is right in sending some help to victims of ISIS/IS in Iraq, but is that enough? Or is little bit of right thing has been done for some other reason i.e. partly own created monsters have now become threat to oil fields in and around Kurdistan?

Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?
All communities / societies / religious groups etc have both good and bad people, Muslims are no different. It is the job of the police and security services to find the criminals, whoever they may be, arrest them, produce those in front of the courts, which should be doing a proper job of locking them up. Sadly over last few decade, our governments of all parties have not been a good role models themselves. They along with USA and others shouldn't have financed and trained religious fanatics for using them in Afghanistan, shouldn't have destabilised most of the Middle East, where they also courted many of the people who are now proving to be a big problem. Most of the dictators and tyrants ruling Middle East may not be what we with so called 'Western democratic values' like, but a) we should not be dictating how other nations run their own internal affairs nor they should be allowed to do the same to us..... b) At least under tyrants like Sadam Hussain and Gadaffi there were no Al Qeada and ISIS. What message were our nations so called leaders were sending out to many confised young people when they were praising unrest in Syria and supporting anti government elements in Syrian civil war?------ Which in many cases could have made foolish or misguided morons to think that they too in their own minds brain washed by propaganda of religious fundamentalists are supporting the same struggle. Even now it is difficult to understand the logic of our so called leaders. Supporting the dangerous mob in Syria but opposing the off shoots of the same lot in Iraq can hardly make any sense. YES, our government is right in sending some help to victims of ISIS/IS in Iraq, but is that enough? Or is little bit of right thing has been done for some other reason i.e. partly own created monsters have now become threat to oil fields in and around Kurdistan? Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it? Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: -4

7:13pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Pounce says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
All communities / societies / religious groups etc have both good and bad people, Muslims are no different.

It is the job of the police and security services to find the criminals, whoever they may be, arrest them, produce those in front of the courts, which should be doing a proper job of locking them up.

Sadly over last few decade, our governments of all parties have not been a good role models themselves. They along with USA and others shouldn't have financed and trained religious fanatics for using them in Afghanistan, shouldn't have destabilised most of the Middle East, where they also courted many of the people who are now proving to be a big problem.

Most of the dictators and tyrants ruling Middle East may not be what we with so called 'Western democratic values' like, but a) we should not be dictating how other nations run their own internal affairs nor they should be allowed to do the same to us..... b) At least under tyrants like Sadam Hussain and Gadaffi there were no Al Qeada and ISIS.

What message were our nations so called leaders were sending out to many confised young people when they were praising unrest in Syria and supporting anti government elements in Syrian civil war?------ Which in many cases could have made foolish or misguided morons to think that they too in their own minds brain washed by propaganda of religious fundamentalists are supporting the same struggle.

Even now it is difficult to understand the logic of our so called leaders. Supporting the dangerous mob in Syria but opposing the off shoots of the same lot in Iraq can hardly make any sense.

YES, our government is right in sending some help to victims of ISIS/IS in Iraq, but is that enough? Or is little bit of right thing has been done for some other reason i.e. partly own created monsters have now become threat to oil fields in and around Kurdistan?

Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
"Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?"

Paramjit, the government of Ukraine is fighting a separatist movement which is funded and supplying by Moscow, which has seen the annexation of the Crimea and now the Eastern half the country. The very same people who shot out of the sky a Jetliner and you feel that the world (only Russia on the other side) is wrong for supporting the Ukraine.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: All communities / societies / religious groups etc have both good and bad people, Muslims are no different. It is the job of the police and security services to find the criminals, whoever they may be, arrest them, produce those in front of the courts, which should be doing a proper job of locking them up. Sadly over last few decade, our governments of all parties have not been a good role models themselves. They along with USA and others shouldn't have financed and trained religious fanatics for using them in Afghanistan, shouldn't have destabilised most of the Middle East, where they also courted many of the people who are now proving to be a big problem. Most of the dictators and tyrants ruling Middle East may not be what we with so called 'Western democratic values' like, but a) we should not be dictating how other nations run their own internal affairs nor they should be allowed to do the same to us..... b) At least under tyrants like Sadam Hussain and Gadaffi there were no Al Qeada and ISIS. What message were our nations so called leaders were sending out to many confised young people when they were praising unrest in Syria and supporting anti government elements in Syrian civil war?------ Which in many cases could have made foolish or misguided morons to think that they too in their own minds brain washed by propaganda of religious fundamentalists are supporting the same struggle. Even now it is difficult to understand the logic of our so called leaders. Supporting the dangerous mob in Syria but opposing the off shoots of the same lot in Iraq can hardly make any sense. YES, our government is right in sending some help to victims of ISIS/IS in Iraq, but is that enough? Or is little bit of right thing has been done for some other reason i.e. partly own created monsters have now become threat to oil fields in and around Kurdistan? Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?[/p][/quote]Paramjit Bahia wrote: "Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?" Paramjit, the government of Ukraine is fighting a separatist movement which is funded and supplying by Moscow, which has seen the annexation of the Crimea and now the Eastern half the country. The very same people who shot out of the sky a Jetliner and you feel that the world (only Russia on the other side) is wrong for supporting the Ukraine. Pounce
  • Score: 6

7:55pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Pounce wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
All communities / societies / religious groups etc have both good and bad people, Muslims are no different.

It is the job of the police and security services to find the criminals, whoever they may be, arrest them, produce those in front of the courts, which should be doing a proper job of locking them up.

Sadly over last few decade, our governments of all parties have not been a good role models themselves. They along with USA and others shouldn't have financed and trained religious fanatics for using them in Afghanistan, shouldn't have destabilised most of the Middle East, where they also courted many of the people who are now proving to be a big problem.

Most of the dictators and tyrants ruling Middle East may not be what we with so called 'Western democratic values' like, but a) we should not be dictating how other nations run their own internal affairs nor they should be allowed to do the same to us..... b) At least under tyrants like Sadam Hussain and Gadaffi there were no Al Qeada and ISIS.

What message were our nations so called leaders were sending out to many confised young people when they were praising unrest in Syria and supporting anti government elements in Syrian civil war?------ Which in many cases could have made foolish or misguided morons to think that they too in their own minds brain washed by propaganda of religious fundamentalists are supporting the same struggle.

Even now it is difficult to understand the logic of our so called leaders. Supporting the dangerous mob in Syria but opposing the off shoots of the same lot in Iraq can hardly make any sense.

YES, our government is right in sending some help to victims of ISIS/IS in Iraq, but is that enough? Or is little bit of right thing has been done for some other reason i.e. partly own created monsters have now become threat to oil fields in and around Kurdistan?

Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
"Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?"

Paramjit, the government of Ukraine is fighting a separatist movement which is funded and supplying by Moscow, which has seen the annexation of the Crimea and now the Eastern half the country. The very same people who shot out of the sky a Jetliner and you feel that the world (only Russia on the other side) is wrong for supporting the Ukraine.
The same argument can also be used by Assad in Syria i.e his forces are bombing rebels, who are armed financed and supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whom UK also sells arms.

Crimea situation can be argued by both sides, Russian can say it was part of Russia till 1954 when drunk and excited Kruschov made it part of Ukraine, and Ukraine can argue that for last few decades it has been in Ukraine.

But the USA UK Germany and NATO nations can't use that argument because of their own record over Kosovo, where they supported Kosovo breaking away because now majority population is of Albanion origin Muslims who settled in Serbia over a period of time. Because now not only Crimea but large parts of Eastern Ukraine are also Russians settlers.

Only independent investigation will decide who committed most terrible crime of shooting civilian airliner over Ukraine. Till then blame games by both Eastern and Western powers are irresponsible and unfair to those who lost their lives. Hope whoever responsible is found and punished, unlike both Russians and Americans who got away with similar crimes i.e. Russians downed Korean civil plane and Americans shot down Iranian jet full of passengers.
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: All communities / societies / religious groups etc have both good and bad people, Muslims are no different. It is the job of the police and security services to find the criminals, whoever they may be, arrest them, produce those in front of the courts, which should be doing a proper job of locking them up. Sadly over last few decade, our governments of all parties have not been a good role models themselves. They along with USA and others shouldn't have financed and trained religious fanatics for using them in Afghanistan, shouldn't have destabilised most of the Middle East, where they also courted many of the people who are now proving to be a big problem. Most of the dictators and tyrants ruling Middle East may not be what we with so called 'Western democratic values' like, but a) we should not be dictating how other nations run their own internal affairs nor they should be allowed to do the same to us..... b) At least under tyrants like Sadam Hussain and Gadaffi there were no Al Qeada and ISIS. What message were our nations so called leaders were sending out to many confised young people when they were praising unrest in Syria and supporting anti government elements in Syrian civil war?------ Which in many cases could have made foolish or misguided morons to think that they too in their own minds brain washed by propaganda of religious fundamentalists are supporting the same struggle. Even now it is difficult to understand the logic of our so called leaders. Supporting the dangerous mob in Syria but opposing the off shoots of the same lot in Iraq can hardly make any sense. YES, our government is right in sending some help to victims of ISIS/IS in Iraq, but is that enough? Or is little bit of right thing has been done for some other reason i.e. partly own created monsters have now become threat to oil fields in and around Kurdistan? Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?[/p][/quote]Paramjit Bahia wrote: "Otherwise why our so called leaders are supporting the government in Kiev bombing and killing many innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine and spreading false rumours about Russian aid convey, which has been checked by Red Cross and supported by it?" Paramjit, the government of Ukraine is fighting a separatist movement which is funded and supplying by Moscow, which has seen the annexation of the Crimea and now the Eastern half the country. The very same people who shot out of the sky a Jetliner and you feel that the world (only Russia on the other side) is wrong for supporting the Ukraine.[/p][/quote]The same argument can also be used by Assad in Syria i.e his forces are bombing rebels, who are armed financed and supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whom UK also sells arms. Crimea situation can be argued by both sides, Russian can say it was part of Russia till 1954 when drunk and excited Kruschov made it part of Ukraine, and Ukraine can argue that for last few decades it has been in Ukraine. But the USA UK Germany and NATO nations can't use that argument because of their own record over Kosovo, where they supported Kosovo breaking away because now majority population is of Albanion origin Muslims who settled in Serbia over a period of time. Because now not only Crimea but large parts of Eastern Ukraine are also Russians settlers. Only independent investigation will decide who committed most terrible crime of shooting civilian airliner over Ukraine. Till then blame games by both Eastern and Western powers are irresponsible and unfair to those who lost their lives. Hope whoever responsible is found and punished, unlike both Russians and Americans who got away with similar crimes i.e. Russians downed Korean civil plane and Americans shot down Iranian jet full of passengers. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: -4

8:32pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Pounce says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
The same argument can also be used by Assad in Syria i.e his forces are bombing rebels, who are armed financed and supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whom UK also sells arms.
Other than the Tornado ,Hawk and Typhoon which are (in order) strike aircraft,trainer and fighter. (which haven't been used inside Syria) want to name any weapons the above use sold by the Uk handed over to the Syrian Terrorists. They both use US /French and German weapon systems and the weapons handed over to the Syrians are primarily Russian bought on the open market.

The situation inside Syria isn't the same as in the Ukraine as no country (other than the quasi terrorist state of ISIS) has designs on Syrian land.
Paramjit Bahia wrote: The same argument can also be used by Assad in Syria i.e his forces are bombing rebels, who are armed financed and supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whom UK also sells arms. Other than the Tornado ,Hawk and Typhoon which are (in order) strike aircraft,trainer and fighter. (which haven't been used inside Syria) want to name any weapons the above use sold by the Uk handed over to the Syrian Terrorists. They both use US /French and German weapon systems and the weapons handed over to the Syrians are primarily Russian bought on the open market. The situation inside Syria isn't the same as in the Ukraine as no country (other than the quasi terrorist state of ISIS) has designs on Syrian land. Pounce
  • Score: 4

8:34pm Mon 18 Aug 14

sass says...

Pounce wrote:
" Islam is not about violence. Most of the press don’t report that Muslims are against it because it isn’t interesting news."

Ok, help me here, how many people have seen Muslims in the Uk protesting about:
The London bombings in 2005
The murder of Soldier Lee Rigby
The attacks on the WTC
The bombings in Madrid
The attacks by Hamas in Israel
The Killing fields of Syria
The killing fields of Nigeria
The killing fields of Somalia
The killing fields of Yemen
The killing fields of Pakistan

But harm the hair of a terrorists and they are up in arms by the thousands playing the 'Islamophobia' card.

Double standards and its there in the public eye for all to see. Anybody want to call me a racist. I am a brown skinned EX muslim and I know what I am talking about.
Right, that's a fatwa out on you then!
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: " Islam is not about violence. Most of the press don’t report that Muslims are against it because it isn’t interesting news." Ok, help me here, how many people have seen Muslims in the Uk protesting about: The London bombings in 2005 The murder of Soldier Lee Rigby The attacks on the WTC The bombings in Madrid The attacks by Hamas in Israel The Killing fields of Syria The killing fields of Nigeria The killing fields of Somalia The killing fields of Yemen The killing fields of Pakistan But harm the hair of a terrorists and they are up in arms by the thousands playing the 'Islamophobia' card. Double standards and its there in the public eye for all to see. Anybody want to call me a racist. I am a brown skinned EX muslim and I know what I am talking about.[/p][/quote]Right, that's a fatwa out on you then! sass
  • Score: -2

8:37pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Pounce says...

Paramjit Bahia says...
Crimea situation can be argued by both sides, Russian can say it was part of Russia till 1954 when drunk and excited Kruschov made it part of Ukraine, and Ukraine can argue that for last few decades it has been in Ukraine.

Really, that is your excuse, it used to belong to Russia (stolen at that) and the then Russian leader at the time when he gave it away was drunk. Using that excuse, are you saying that the Uk can reclaim its empire, the French theirs , the Ottoman Empire theirs.

Weak excuse and it doesn't stand up on this MB never mind an International court.
Paramjit Bahia says... Crimea situation can be argued by both sides, Russian can say it was part of Russia till 1954 when drunk and excited Kruschov made it part of Ukraine, and Ukraine can argue that for last few decades it has been in Ukraine. Really, that is your excuse, it used to belong to Russia (stolen at that) and the then Russian leader at the time when he gave it away was drunk. Using that excuse, are you saying that the Uk can reclaim its empire, the French theirs , the Ottoman Empire theirs. Weak excuse and it doesn't stand up on this MB never mind an International court. Pounce
  • Score: 4

8:39pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Pounce says...

sass says...
Right, that's a fatwa out on you then!

You know what, already happened;
Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim.

No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims
sass says... Right, that's a fatwa out on you then! You know what, already happened; Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim. No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims Pounce
  • Score: 4

8:51pm Mon 18 Aug 14

forest hump says...

Pounce wrote:
sass says...
Right, that's a fatwa out on you then!

You know what, already happened;
Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim.

No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims
I respect your honesty and wish you well. A difficult choice but stay strong.
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: sass says... Right, that's a fatwa out on you then! You know what, already happened; Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim. No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims[/p][/quote]I respect your honesty and wish you well. A difficult choice but stay strong. forest hump
  • Score: 0

10:24pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Pounce wrote:
Paramjit Bahia says...
Crimea situation can be argued by both sides, Russian can say it was part of Russia till 1954 when drunk and excited Kruschov made it part of Ukraine, and Ukraine can argue that for last few decades it has been in Ukraine.

Really, that is your excuse, it used to belong to Russia (stolen at that) and the then Russian leader at the time when he gave it away was drunk. Using that excuse, are you saying that the Uk can reclaim its empire, the French theirs , the Ottoman Empire theirs.

Weak excuse and it doesn't stand up on this MB never mind an International court.
If you observe British foreign policy and what EU and Americans are doing they may be using different terminology but these are about creating new version of old evil empires. Because it is mostly about dominating other nations and exploiting those through favourable trade conditions for own big businesses, exactly what Britain used to do in Indian sub continent, this time without wasting money on occupying admin, because that will be done by local puppets. As has been done in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Can you recall how Pakistan was told to accept Banzir Bhutoo back in active politics, and not to arrest her because there were many cases pending against her in the courts?

Russians have also ambitions of their own.

Big powers of both East and West are cause of most major problems in the world. Encouraging most violent form of Islam was part of British foreign policy during early parts of last century when they started undermining Sufi type of Islam and created Woohabism loving Saudi royal family. That approach has not changed. In India Cameron, Obama and the rest of them have started courting Hindu Fundamentalist BJP govt for same reasons; Neo Imperialism

If you believe that other nations are not interested in occupying controlling or dominating Syria, that will be like believing in flying pigs. French haven't forgotten that they used to dominate it, Turks have their ambitions and why do you think Saudis are supporting the rebellion? Surely considering Saudi Arabia's own most disgraceful human rights record they can't be sticking their noses in Syria for protecting civil liberties of ordinary people.
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: Paramjit Bahia says... Crimea situation can be argued by both sides, Russian can say it was part of Russia till 1954 when drunk and excited Kruschov made it part of Ukraine, and Ukraine can argue that for last few decades it has been in Ukraine. Really, that is your excuse, it used to belong to Russia (stolen at that) and the then Russian leader at the time when he gave it away was drunk. Using that excuse, are you saying that the Uk can reclaim its empire, the French theirs , the Ottoman Empire theirs. Weak excuse and it doesn't stand up on this MB never mind an International court.[/p][/quote]If you observe British foreign policy and what EU and Americans are doing they may be using different terminology but these are about creating new version of old evil empires. Because it is mostly about dominating other nations and exploiting those through favourable trade conditions for own big businesses, exactly what Britain used to do in Indian sub continent, this time without wasting money on occupying admin, because that will be done by local puppets. As has been done in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Can you recall how Pakistan was told to accept Banzir Bhutoo back in active politics, and not to arrest her because there were many cases pending against her in the courts? Russians have also ambitions of their own. Big powers of both East and West are cause of most major problems in the world. Encouraging most violent form of Islam was part of British foreign policy during early parts of last century when they started undermining Sufi type of Islam and created Woohabism loving Saudi royal family. That approach has not changed. In India Cameron, Obama and the rest of them have started courting Hindu Fundamentalist BJP govt for same reasons; Neo Imperialism If you believe that other nations are not interested in occupying controlling or dominating Syria, that will be like believing in flying pigs. French haven't forgotten that they used to dominate it, Turks have their ambitions and why do you think Saudis are supporting the rebellion? Surely considering Saudi Arabia's own most disgraceful human rights record they can't be sticking their noses in Syria for protecting civil liberties of ordinary people. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

10:33pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Pounce wrote:
sass says...
Right, that's a fatwa out on you then!

You know what, already happened;
Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim.

No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims
Hope having experienced one religion you have not joined any other part of unscientific God Brigade.

Otherwise it may be like out of the frying pan ending into fire.
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: sass says... Right, that's a fatwa out on you then! You know what, already happened; Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim. No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims[/p][/quote]Hope having experienced one religion you have not joined any other part of unscientific God Brigade. Otherwise it may be like out of the frying pan ending into fire. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 4

11:40pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Pounce says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
"Hope having experienced one religion you have not joined any other part of unscientific God Brigade. Otherwise it may be like out of the frying pan ending into fire."

Paramjit, may I ask if you are Islamic? if so would I be correct in thinking that you condemn my choice to leave the Islamic faith by claiming that I am going to burn in hellfire, however subtly you write it.
Paramjit Bahia wrote: "Hope having experienced one religion you have not joined any other part of unscientific God Brigade. Otherwise it may be like out of the frying pan ending into fire." Paramjit, may I ask if you are Islamic? if so would I be correct in thinking that you condemn my choice to leave the Islamic faith by claiming that I am going to burn in hellfire, however subtly you write it. Pounce
  • Score: -5

7:48am Tue 19 Aug 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Pounce wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
"Hope having experienced one religion you have not joined any other part of unscientific God Brigade. Otherwise it may be like out of the frying pan ending into fire."

Paramjit, may I ask if you are Islamic? if so would I be correct in thinking that you condemn my choice to leave the Islamic faith by claiming that I am going to burn in hellfire, however subtly you write it.
I am neither Muslim nor follower of any other religion, not even any family connection with Islam.

My only connection with any religion is that I was born in a Sikh family, which was thrown out of Pakistan by Islamo Fascists in 1947, just as many similar evil minded people from other religions drove many Muslims out of India. Which proves that animal like aggressive morons can be found in all religious groups.

Yes I have many close friends who are Muslims and that too from Pakistan, including some whose families were thrown out of India by certain evil minded thugs from Sikh and Hindu communities. Which proves that Muslims also suffer as many are still suffering in Gaza, who are victims of Zionism in Israel, which is no better than Hamas.

You are wrong in assuming that I may have suggested that you will "burn in hell fire". I suggest you read what I wrote once again. I most certainly do not believe in unscientific myths like heavens with wine lakes or any hell with fire.

Have a nice day, if you are looking for heaven go to Bournemouth beech and hell will be traffic jam on the way without fire but with smoke from exhaust pipes.
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: Paramjit Bahia wrote: "Hope having experienced one religion you have not joined any other part of unscientific God Brigade. Otherwise it may be like out of the frying pan ending into fire." Paramjit, may I ask if you are Islamic? if so would I be correct in thinking that you condemn my choice to leave the Islamic faith by claiming that I am going to burn in hellfire, however subtly you write it.[/p][/quote]I am neither Muslim nor follower of any other religion, not even any family connection with Islam. My only connection with any religion is that I was born in a Sikh family, which was thrown out of Pakistan by Islamo Fascists in 1947, just as many similar evil minded people from other religions drove many Muslims out of India. Which proves that animal like aggressive morons can be found in all religious groups. Yes I have many close friends who are Muslims and that too from Pakistan, including some whose families were thrown out of India by certain evil minded thugs from Sikh and Hindu communities. Which proves that Muslims also suffer as many are still suffering in Gaza, who are victims of Zionism in Israel, which is no better than Hamas. You are wrong in assuming that I may have suggested that you will "burn in hell fire". I suggest you read what I wrote once again. I most certainly do not believe in unscientific myths like heavens with wine lakes or any hell with fire. Have a nice day, if you are looking for heaven go to Bournemouth beech and hell will be traffic jam on the way without fire but with smoke from exhaust pipes. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 6

2:16pm Tue 19 Aug 14

southy says...

Pounce wrote:
sass says...
Right, that's a fatwa out on you then!

You know what, already happened;
Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim.

No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims
There are others like you Pounce, Keep your name as it is, don't bend to there will
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: sass says... Right, that's a fatwa out on you then! You know what, already happened; Ostracised from Family, received hate mail, abuse and even told to change my name as I no longer a Muslim. No loss to me, as I have nothing to do with my kin or Muslims[/p][/quote]There are others like you Pounce, Keep your name as it is, don't bend to there will southy
  • Score: 0

11:55am Sun 24 Aug 14

georgerm says...

southy wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001.

You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name.

However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.
A problem that was created by the western world, and now whats going on our government are unwilling to help those on the mountain. They will not help because they want to keep the area destablise.
This has been going on way before the trade centre, You will not hear anything from the Muslims in this country, because most agree with what, Isis is doing, I believe in S, Arabia 95% of the people surveyed in a poll, said they had sympathy for Isis even worse, there is talk that the Saudis have been bankrolling them, look it up. make no Mistake the Muslims in this country have no intension of integrating into British society, their aim is to change our laws, our way of life. We have already seen evidence of this, with schools being infiltrated, by extremists. Not long ago, a documentary, where a Muslim infiltrated a mosque where they had a so call cleric spilling his bile, Karan lessons where the kids are beaten by the teachers, this was not just one mosque.
This is a Religion of hate, violence, the Karan is full of it. Be warned.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: This isn't a new problem, this has been going on for years since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in 2001. You hear stories from individuals now and again about how Muslim's are a respectful and peaceful religion etc. which I'm sure is true and the very small minority of extremists give the whole religion bad name. However, if this is the case, why aren't the Muslim population in western Europe being proactive and telling people that they're not all suicidal extremist's and do something to change the stigma attached to Muslim's? I know that if I was part of a group that was being misrepresented by the minority, I would do something about it……. Muslim's, in my opinion seem to be generally silent and not helping their own cause.[/p][/quote]A problem that was created by the western world, and now whats going on our government are unwilling to help those on the mountain. They will not help because they want to keep the area destablise.[/p][/quote]This has been going on way before the trade centre, You will not hear anything from the Muslims in this country, because most agree with what, Isis is doing, I believe in S, Arabia 95% of the people surveyed in a poll, said they had sympathy for Isis even worse, there is talk that the Saudis have been bankrolling them, look it up. make no Mistake the Muslims in this country have no intension of integrating into British society, their aim is to change our laws, our way of life. We have already seen evidence of this, with schools being infiltrated, by extremists. Not long ago, a documentary, where a Muslim infiltrated a mosque where they had a so call cleric spilling his bile, Karan lessons where the kids are beaten by the teachers, this was not just one mosque. This is a Religion of hate, violence, the Karan is full of it. Be warned. georgerm
  • Score: 0

12:24pm Sun 24 Aug 14

georgerm says...

Over and over again I hear its the west fault, for what, as mentioned by Mr Bagia, with his totally wrong tilt on history, Kosovo ? the UN sent in troops to try and stop the massacre of Muslims, Muslims all around the world were screaming where are the Americans, when they did go in to help the Muslims, they were the best thing since sliced bread, but soon it was the west to blame, Crimea has never belonged to Russia it was occupied by them, east Ukraine belongs to Ukraine not Russia, they have every right to retake there country, both in Crimea, Ukraine, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, just to name a few of the country's occupied by Russia after the second world war, Russia and China have supplied most of the weapons used in the middle east, how do I know, unlike you I was trained to recognise enemy weapon's so I do know what I am talking about, not one mention from you about what the Muslims are responsible for or there suppliers Russia and China, no word from you about the innocent, people kill by Muslim terrorist, since the sixty's, your silence tells me you still have a very tilted pro Muslim agenda.
Over and over again I hear its the west fault, for what, as mentioned by Mr Bagia, with his totally wrong tilt on history, Kosovo ? the UN sent in troops to try and stop the massacre of Muslims, Muslims all around the world were screaming where are the Americans, when they did go in to help the Muslims, they were the best thing since sliced bread, but soon it was the west to blame, Crimea has never belonged to Russia it was occupied by them, east Ukraine belongs to Ukraine not Russia, they have every right to retake there country, both in Crimea, Ukraine, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, just to name a few of the country's occupied by Russia after the second world war, Russia and China have supplied most of the weapons used in the middle east, how do I know, unlike you I was trained to recognise enemy weapon's so I do know what I am talking about, not one mention from you about what the Muslims are responsible for or there suppliers Russia and China, no word from you about the innocent, people kill by Muslim terrorist, since the sixty's, your silence tells me you still have a very tilted pro Muslim agenda. georgerm
  • Score: 0

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