Penske workers vote to strike over shift pay at Southampton's Ford factory (From Daily Echo)
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Penske workers vote to strike over shift pay at Southampton's Ford factory
7:20am Tuesday 7th July 2009 in
-
- Exclusive By Simon Carr » Eastleigh Chief Reporter
STRIKE action has been demanded by more than 90 contract workers at the giant Southampton Ford plant.
A furious pay row has broke out at Penske Logistics which works on site at the Swaythling operation.
The new dispute comes just months after the motor giant slashed half its 1,000-strong workforce which sent shockwaves through the contract and supply chains.
Now they face further misery as management has axed additional payments for shift work and wants to put off pay negotiations from September this year to January next year.
Unite union boss Ian Woodland said: “This is a slap in the face to a workforce that has been very loyal.
“Workers have always relied on shift payments and cut their cloth accordingly, now they face getting into increasing levels of debt and the company just says it hasn’t budgeted for shift payments and that’s it.
“I have never seen a workforce vote so overwhelmingly in favour of a strike and I know this decision wouldn’t have been taken lightly which shows how strongly people feel about the way they have been treated.”
Of the 69 ballot papers returned 66 voted for an all-out strike while a further two wanted industrial action short of downing tools.
Unions will be holding talks with management bosses this week and are planning a mass meeting with workers.
The Daily Echo understands that if no solution is found workers may walkout within the next two weeks ahead of the plant summer shutdown.
A worker, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “We are completely dissatisfied with the way we have been treated and what essentially means a pay cut that we feel a strike is the only course of action we could take that they might listen to.”
Another said: “We have just been banging our head against a wall for so long we felt we needed to do something. Morale has never been so low.
“We feel we have bent over backwards to help the company and they have just thrown it back at us.”
Penske, which now employs 126 people, has already had two rounds of redundancies in which dozens of people have lost their jobs.
The company was unavailable to comment.
Comments(87)
so19
says...
9:13am Tue 7 Jul 09
Keith Oftergrass wrote:dont talk so much rubbish, the penske guys are on a low enough income as it is with out taking thier shift payments away and as for trying to get a redundancy payout dont make me laugh they wouldn't get the same deal the ford guys got. Good luck to 'em i say i hope you get what you deserve, fair pay and conditions
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
the englishman
says...
9:33am Tue 7 Jul 09
Mexeman
says...
9:53am Tue 7 Jul 09
hulla ba11oo
says...
10:03am Tue 7 Jul 09
the englishman wrote:No, it's not a crime. But it's a bit foolhardy to think you'll get it, just by throwing a tantrum. Be thankful you've got a job, Penske workers, pretty much all companies are making cutbacks. What makes me laugh are the blind fools such as, well, the Penske workers, or "the englishman" here, who think that if their heart is pure and they wish for it hard enough, some money will magically appear to pay these wages
have you read the article at all.those penske guys are after a decent wage not a payout.is it a crime to want money to live and to feed your families and keep a roof over your head.
Keith Oftergrass
says...
10:59am Tue 7 Jul 09
so19 wrote:I am sure these trots are going to get what they deserve. No doubt Fords will employ another contractor to supply fodder until they can move out the rest of the plant to somewhere cost effective.
Keith Oftergrass wrote:dont talk so much rubbish, the penske guys are on a low enough income as it is with out taking thier shift payments away and as for trying to get a redundancy payout dont make me laugh they wouldn't get the same deal the ford guys got. Good luck to 'em i say i hope you get what you deserve, fair pay and conditions
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
Do these people not read the papers or are they all sheep following a few militant Union leaders whose livelihood isn't at risk by all this madness ????
southy
says...
11:18am Tue 7 Jul 09
Mexeman wrote:cut should all ways start at the top, not at the bottom.
Guys, welcome to the New World! Cutting costs is the way of ALL businesses now. If you don't like it get out and get another job. Us self-employed have seen cuts of up to 75% in our work load.
the people at the bottom are the ones that keep the company going, thin out top make then take paid cuts first, or lose them, they can all ways be replace easy with the swedish or findland office workers who work for less money, and make less hours.
southy
says...
11:19am Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally
says...
11:27am Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:No, the people at the bottom are not the ones who keep the company going, that's a common misconception amongst people who have no idea how commerce and industry functions. They are part of a concerted effort to keep the company going, along with other staff. I know to the average manual labourer that everything else looks like "sitting on your backside doing nothing" but you'll find it's more difficult to replace an experienced executive than your average shop-floor worker. And please, stop thinking of upper management as "office workers". They do actually do stuff in those offices, even if the blue-collar malcontents don't believe it. Honestly, the way you go on, the entire world is populated by people who lift boxes, and tea-boys
Mexeman wrote:cut should all ways start at the top, not at the bottom.
Guys, welcome to the New World! Cutting costs is the way of ALL businesses now. If you don't like it get out and get another job. Us self-employed have seen cuts of up to 75% in our work load.
the people at the bottom are the ones that keep the company going, thin out top make then take paid cuts first, or lose them, they can all ways be replace easy with the swedish or findland office workers who work for less money, and make less hours.
Why d'you think Ford are using Penske Logistics, rather than seek the services of some executive-providing agency?
so19
says...
11:59am Tue 7 Jul 09
Keith Oftergrass wrote:trots? surely you mean working men trying to earn a decent living without having to give up thier pay and conditions. you seem to be rather misinformed as regards the union at ford. i think you will find that there are no militant union leaders at ford in fact quite the opposite, the union have always had a very good relationship with the company.
so19 wrote:I am sure these trots are going to get what they deserve. No doubt Fords will employ another contractor to supply fodder until they can move out the rest of the plant to somewhere cost effective. Do these people not read the papers or are they all sheep following a few militant Union leaders whose livelihood isn't at risk by all this madness ????Keith Oftergrass wrote: They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !dont talk so much rubbish, the penske guys are on a low enough income as it is with out taking thier shift payments away and as for trying to get a redundancy payout dont make me laugh they wouldn't get the same deal the ford guys got. Good luck to 'em i say i hope you get what you deserve, fair pay and conditions
southy
says...
12:02pm Tue 7 Jul 09
take a look at runcorn agency and contractors this company had 1000's off people on there books working all over the EU, and in the office their was only 5 office workers working a 9 to 5, paul who by the way came from millbrook (foundry lane area), knew with out a good ground work force the company would be dead in the water.
Condor Man
says...
12:30pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Keith Oftergrass
says...
12:31pm Tue 7 Jul 09
so19 wrote:Working men trying to make a living ????
Keith Oftergrass wrote:trots? surely you mean working men trying to earn a decent living without having to give up thier pay and conditions. you seem to be rather misinformed as regards the union at ford. i think you will find that there are no militant union leaders at ford in fact quite the opposite, the union have always had a very good relationship with the company.
so19 wrote:I am sure these trots are going to get what they deserve. No doubt Fords will employ another contractor to supply fodder until they can move out the rest of the plant to somewhere cost effective. Do these people not read the papers or are they all sheep following a few militant Union leaders whose livelihood isn't at risk by all this madness ????Keith Oftergrass wrote: They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !dont talk so much rubbish, the penske guys are on a low enough income as it is with out taking thier shift payments away and as for trying to get a redundancy payout dont make me laugh they wouldn't get the same deal the ford guys got. Good luck to 'em i say i hope you get what you deserve, fair pay and conditions
How does sitting on their backsides watching Jeremy Kyle or manning a picket line constitute working ? Firms employ contract workers for a reason, they don't pay agencies and additional 35-50% of the hourly rate so that they have to renegotiate a contract everytime the market dictates a change in working practices.
Agency are agency for a reason...... they are expendable when the need arises - how is going on strike going to help ?
Keith Oftergrass
says...
12:31pm Tue 7 Jul 09
so19 wrote:Working men trying to make a living ????
Keith Oftergrass wrote:trots? surely you mean working men trying to earn a decent living without having to give up thier pay and conditions. you seem to be rather misinformed as regards the union at ford. i think you will find that there are no militant union leaders at ford in fact quite the opposite, the union have always had a very good relationship with the company.
so19 wrote:I am sure these trots are going to get what they deserve. No doubt Fords will employ another contractor to supply fodder until they can move out the rest of the plant to somewhere cost effective. Do these people not read the papers or are they all sheep following a few militant Union leaders whose livelihood isn't at risk by all this madness ????Keith Oftergrass wrote: They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !dont talk so much rubbish, the penske guys are on a low enough income as it is with out taking thier shift payments away and as for trying to get a redundancy payout dont make me laugh they wouldn't get the same deal the ford guys got. Good luck to 'em i say i hope you get what you deserve, fair pay and conditions
How does sitting on their backsides watching Jeremy Kyle or manning a picket line constitute working ? Firms employ contract workers for a reason, they don't pay agencies and additional 35-50% of the hourly rate so that they have to renegotiate a contract everytime the market dictates a change in working practices.
Agency are agency for a reason...... they are expendable when the need arises - how is going on strike going to help ?
southy
says...
12:42pm Tue 7 Jul 09
the englishman
says...
1:06pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally
says...
1:10pm Tue 7 Jul 09
the englishman wrote:By that mentality, any lynch mobs hanging black men were in the right, too
i have seen all the negative talk about the penske strike and i think if any of you negative people were working there you would all be for the strike
stmarysmush, literally
says...
1:12pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Agency are agency for a reason...... they are expendable when the need arises - how is going on strike going to help ?
Exactly, Keith. It's this snippet that seems beyond the grasp of most of the contributors here
southy
says...
2:08pm Tue 7 Jul 09
the englishman wrote:englishman your dealing with capitalist office workers mainly here who dont have a clue. they dont even relize that capitalism is dying a very slow death.
i have seen all the negative talk about the penske strike and i think if any of you negative people were working there you would all be for the strike
stmarysmush, literally
says...
2:13pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:LOL@Southy pretending he's the only person in the whole world with any idea what's going on.
the englishman wrote:englishman your dealing with capitalist office workers mainly here who dont have a clue. they dont even relize that capitalism is dying a very slow death.
i have seen all the negative talk about the penske strike and i think if any of you negative people were working there you would all be for the strike
LOL@Southy who thinks all office workers are identical clones of something he saw in a BBC2 sitcom
LOL@Southy who thinks that everyone who works in an office has decided their political stance on everything, and coincidentally they all decided the same thing
LOL@Southy who thinks everyone who isn't a manual labourer is "an office worker"
LOL@Southy who thinks that "capitalism is dying a very slow death"
LOL@Southy who doesn't realise that, even if he's right, and capitalism is dying a very slow death - which it isn't - then that doesn't matter, because slow deaths take ages. Capitalise away, office drone clones of the world, you've got ages yet
stmarysmush, literally
says...
2:17pm Tue 7 Jul 09
LOL@Southy for his impending "you don't know, only I know" crap
LOL@Souhty for thinking the world still revolves on a simple left/right political spectrum
LOL@Southy for thinking that just because he was once something to do with a union, he's got some secret knowledge about every last corner of industrial politics going
LOL LOL LOL play it again, Southy!
stmarysmush, literally
says...
2:19pm Tue 7 Jul 09
thesaint
says...
2:55pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Keith Oftergrass wrote:are you thick this is about Penske not ford.
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
why do post nonsence about sponging of the state,it seemss like you have a grudge.
never mind stick to your low paid job.
stmarysmush, literally
says...
2:58pm Tue 7 Jul 09
thesaint wrote:Why do you assume he's got a low-paid job? There's only two reasons you might make that comment:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:are you thick this is about Penske not ford.
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
why do post nonsence about sponging of the state,it seemss like you have a grudge.
never mind stick to your low paid job.
1) You think "low-paid job" is an insult, which makes you snobbish and elitist
or
2) You really do think he has a low-paid job, and are mocking him for it, which makes you, err, snobbish and elitist again
Not very saintly, I'm sure you'll agree
thesaint
says...
3:02pm Tue 7 Jul 09
funny how this poster posts the same bile.
trots thats a old fashioned word,how old are you.
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:04pm Tue 7 Jul 09
thesaint wrote:Now you want to insult people based not only on what they earn, but also on how old they are. Why not go the whole hog and kick a pensioner to death for "being inferior" to you?
looks like a return to the 1930,s world mindset.
funny how this poster posts the same bile.
trots thats a old fashioned word,how old are you.
Your sort make me puke
fudez
says...
3:09pm Tue 7 Jul 09
First penske workers are asking penske to pay a wage which is fair for the fair days work they do.
These guys are not even making £1000 a month which is ridicules I don't know how they survive, If there wasn't so many chiefs there wouldn't be this mess as I understand it they have cut back on the hard workers and kept the managers or most of them.
So now you have the facts these guys are not looking at fords but to penske as there employer to get there priorities correct and pay them what they deserve!
Good luck gus
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:11pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez wrote:Spelling mistakes: 11
I think its all funny as people here who leave negative comments havent read or cant read whats going on.
First penske workers are asking penske to pay a wage which is fair for the fair days work they do.
These guys are not even making £1000 a month which is ridicules I don't know how they survive, If there wasn't so many chiefs there wouldn't be this mess as I understand it they have cut back on the hard workers and kept the managers or most of them.
So now you have the facts these guys are not looking at fords but to penske as there employer to get there priorities correct and pay them what they deserve!
Good luck gus
good work
thesaint
says...
3:13pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:because the guys posting garbage about sponging of the state etc about avery good company ,which to me it seems he is Envious.i did not mean to insult anyone who is low paid,i know alot of them work very hard.
thesaint wrote:Why do you assume he's got a low-paid job? There's only two reasons you might make that comment:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:are you thick this is about Penske not ford.
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
why do post nonsence about sponging of the state,it seemss like you have a grudge.
never mind stick to your low paid job.
1) You think "low-paid job" is an insult, which makes you snobbish and elitist
or
2) You really do think he has a low-paid job, and are mocking him for it, which makes you, err, snobbish and elitist again
Not very saintly, I'm sure you'll agree
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:15pm Tue 7 Jul 09
thesaint wrote:I just don't get why "stick to your low paid job" should be used as an insult. The only people it insults are those unfortunate enough to actually be on a low wage. Still, kudos to you for a rational response, rather than the more usual (for these boards) raging insults.
stmarysmush, literally wrote:because the guys posting garbage about sponging of the state etc about avery good company ,which to me it seems he is Envious.i did not mean to insult anyone who is low paid,i know alot of them work very hard.
thesaint wrote:Why do you assume he's got a low-paid job? There's only two reasons you might make that comment:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:are you thick this is about Penske not ford.
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
why do post nonsence about sponging of the state,it seemss like you have a grudge.
never mind stick to your low paid job.
1) You think "low-paid job" is an insult, which makes you snobbish and elitist
or
2) You really do think he has a low-paid job, and are mocking him for it, which makes you, err, snobbish and elitist again
Not very saintly, I'm sure you'll agree
It does seem Keith hasn't quite grasped what's going on here. I still think striking's the wrong move, though. These days, there are plenty of people chasing those few jobs
thesaint
says...
3:21pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:how do you know he,s a pensioner,your just a wind up merchant and i hope i make you puke because you are a nobody to me.
thesaint wrote:Now you want to insult people based not only on what they earn, but also on how old they are. Why not go the whole hog and kick a pensioner to death for "being inferior" to you?
looks like a return to the 1930,s world mindset.
funny how this poster posts the same bile.
trots thats a old fashioned word,how old are you.
Your sort make me puke
thesaint
says...
3:25pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:sorry for last post i though you were on a wind up but i think we are reading the messages at cross purposes.
thesaint wrote:I just don't get why "stick to your low paid job" should be used as an insult. The only people it insults are those unfortunate enough to actually be on a low wage. Still, kudos to you for a rational response, rather than the more usual (for these boards) raging insults.
stmarysmush, literally wrote:because the guys posting garbage about sponging of the state etc about avery good company ,which to me it seems he is Envious.i did not mean to insult anyone who is low paid,i know alot of them work very hard.
thesaint wrote:Why do you assume he's got a low-paid job? There's only two reasons you might make that comment:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:are you thick this is about Penske not ford.
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
why do post nonsence about sponging of the state,it seemss like you have a grudge.
never mind stick to your low paid job.
1) You think "low-paid job" is an insult, which makes you snobbish and elitist
or
2) You really do think he has a low-paid job, and are mocking him for it, which makes you, err, snobbish and elitist again
Not very saintly, I'm sure you'll agree
It does seem Keith hasn't quite grasped what's going on here. I still think striking's the wrong move, though. These days, there are plenty of people chasing those few jobs
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:29pm Tue 7 Jul 09
thesaint wrote:Yeh I think we had a misunderstanding. No biggie!
stmarysmush, literally wrote:sorry for last post i though you were on a wind up but i think we are reading the messages at cross purposes.
thesaint wrote:I just don't get why "stick to your low paid job" should be used as an insult. The only people it insults are those unfortunate enough to actually be on a low wage. Still, kudos to you for a rational response, rather than the more usual (for these boards) raging insults.
stmarysmush, literally wrote:because the guys posting garbage about sponging of the state etc about avery good company ,which to me it seems he is Envious.i did not mean to insult anyone who is low paid,i know alot of them work very hard.
thesaint wrote:Why do you assume he's got a low-paid job? There's only two reasons you might make that comment:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:are you thick this is about Penske not ford.
They'll be celebrating in Turkey then..... just as I thoguht all along, these 'workers' are only after a redundancy payout so thay can sit on their a**es all day and sponge off the state. Good luck guys, you're going to get what you deserve !
why do post nonsence about sponging of the state,it seemss like you have a grudge.
never mind stick to your low paid job.
1) You think "low-paid job" is an insult, which makes you snobbish and elitist
or
2) You really do think he has a low-paid job, and are mocking him for it, which makes you, err, snobbish and elitist again
Not very saintly, I'm sure you'll agree
It does seem Keith hasn't quite grasped what's going on here. I still think striking's the wrong move, though. These days, there are plenty of people chasing those few jobs
southy
says...
3:32pm Tue 7 Jul 09
we are at that crossroads and its not just the uk its the whole world, look into the future off the world, the world population is growing fast. jobs are becoming less just has fast. if we stay on the course that you want in life it will only end up in one way, a bloody revolution. we can make a nice peaceful transaction that has all ready been started, and move on to the next set ideals in full and stay in the fore front with other countrys thats making the slow change or we can become stuck like you want and end up like like a 3rd world state some thing like peru. because that will happen if you stay stuck in one set off ideals, socialist way is the next stage off the evolution of ideals but even then there come a day when even those ideals will need to be put aside, and move on to the next set, all you need is to relize where the world is going to end up, you and i will have not choice in the matter. because on the one hand you got death destruction and human misery and poverty, it get to that stage where there nothing to lose and will enforce it in the end. or to take the nice quiet and peaceful way though a socialist way, and iron out the kinks on the way ready for the next set off ideals
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:37pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:LOL@Southy: capitalism's been dying since 1830s, and yet it's still here. Not a bad bit of slow death that, 180 years and counting, eh. Other models have tried and failed since then, but capitalism still grows. As it will, since it's intrinsic to human nature
well stmarysmush, literally people like you prove the point, your stuck you dont know how to move on, your capitalist world has been dying since 1830's. capitalist ideal was ok for to start the human race off on some from ideals, even with it faults, error's and failer's, we had to start some where.
we are at that crossroads and its not just the uk its the whole world, look into the future off the world, the world population is growing fast. jobs are becoming less just has fast. if we stay on the course that you want in life it will only end up in one way, a bloody revolution. we can make a nice peaceful transaction that has all ready been started, and move on to the next set ideals in full and stay in the fore front with other countrys thats making the slow change or we can become stuck like you want and end up like like a 3rd world state some thing like peru. because that will happen if you stay stuck in one set off ideals, socialist way is the next stage off the evolution of ideals but even then there come a day when even those ideals will need to be put aside, and move on to the next set, all you need is to relize where the world is going to end up, you and i will have not choice in the matter. because on the one hand you got death destruction and human misery and poverty, it get to that stage where there nothing to lose and will enforce it in the end. or to take the nice quiet and peaceful way though a socialist way, and iron out the kinks on the way ready for the next set off ideals
LOL@Southy with his "socialism is the next step in evolution" rubbish as well
Fact is, mate, under a capitalist system, individuals have a hope of prospering, and human beings are essentially selfish creatures, so that's what will prevail I'm afraid. Why has every single attempt at communism, or other collective living on a large scale, led to mass persecution, suffering, and in most cases so far - and eventually probably all - further revolution?
LOL@thinking the only system to survive is somehow considered "dying"! It's the way you tell 'em, Southy!
Dusty
says...
3:38pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Ford Europe are struggling to keep afloat and the workers are not taking any of this in to consideration at all, how foolish.
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:39pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez
says...
3:42pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:When has spelling or grammar been anything to do with having an opinion?
fudez wrote:Spelling mistakes: 11
I think its all funny as people here who leave negative comments havent read or cant read whats going on.
First penske workers are asking penske to pay a wage which is fair for the fair days work they do.
These guys are not even making £1000 a month which is ridicules I don't know how they survive, If there wasn't so many chiefs there wouldn't be this mess as I understand it they have cut back on the hard workers and kept the managers or most of them.
So now you have the facts these guys are not looking at fords but to penske as there employer to get there priorities correct and pay them what they deserve!
Good luck gus
good work
and what in the blue hell has it got to do with the discussion or is it merely the fact that you couldn't disagree with what was written as it is very true?
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:44pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez wrote:Logical errors: 3
stmarysmush, literally wrote:When has spelling or grammar been anything to do with having an opinion?
fudez wrote:Spelling mistakes: 11
I think its all funny as people here who leave negative comments havent read or cant read whats going on.
First penske workers are asking penske to pay a wage which is fair for the fair days work they do.
These guys are not even making £1000 a month which is ridicules I don't know how they survive, If there wasn't so many chiefs there wouldn't be this mess as I understand it they have cut back on the hard workers and kept the managers or most of them.
So now you have the facts these guys are not looking at fords but to penske as there employer to get there priorities correct and pay them what they deserve!
Good luck gus
good work
and what in the blue hell has it got to do with the discussion or is it merely the fact that you couldn't disagree with what was written as it is very true?
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:47pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez
says...
3:51pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:Point proven
fudez wrote:Logical errors: 3
stmarysmush, literally wrote:When has spelling or grammar been anything to do with having an opinion?
fudez wrote:Spelling mistakes: 11
I think its all funny as people here who leave negative comments havent read or cant read whats going on.
First penske workers are asking penske to pay a wage which is fair for the fair days work they do.
These guys are not even making £1000 a month which is ridicules I don't know how they survive, If there wasn't so many chiefs there wouldn't be this mess as I understand it they have cut back on the hard workers and kept the managers or most of them.
So now you have the facts these guys are not looking at fords but to penske as there employer to get there priorities correct and pay them what they deserve!
Good luck gus
good work
and what in the blue hell has it got to do with the discussion or is it merely the fact that you couldn't disagree with what was written as it is very true?
stmarysmush, literally
says...
3:58pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez wrote:Fail level: 93%
stmarysmush, literally wrote:Point proven
fudez wrote:Logical errors: 3
stmarysmush, literally wrote:When has spelling or grammar been anything to do with having an opinion?
fudez wrote:Spelling mistakes: 11
I think its all funny as people here who leave negative comments havent read or cant read whats going on.
First penske workers are asking penske to pay a wage which is fair for the fair days work they do.
These guys are not even making £1000 a month which is ridicules I don't know how they survive, If there wasn't so many chiefs there wouldn't be this mess as I understand it they have cut back on the hard workers and kept the managers or most of them.
So now you have the facts these guys are not looking at fords but to penske as there employer to get there priorities correct and pay them what they deserve!
Good luck gus
good work
and what in the blue hell has it got to do with the discussion or is it merely the fact that you couldn't disagree with what was written as it is very true?
In short, mate, your "points" ain't really worth the effort. Infer whatever you like from that, it's only the internets. Serious business, eh
fudez
says...
3:59pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:I think you may have lost the plot slightly
Sorry to be so hysterical, but the idea of claiming that capitalism has been "dying since the 1830s" (based on what, exactly?) is ludicrous in light of it's dominance over any other eco-political idiom on the planet. Show us your workings!
as we are discussing a potential strike action due to low wages, not some political debate based on peoples views.
Now please refrain from leaving any more comments as they are not worth reading!
Miles Way
says...
4:01pm Tue 7 Jul 09
For the contract workers of Penske I'd suggest they take a long hard look at whether or not they are easily replaced.
King Mush
says...
4:02pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Mexeman wrote:So what do YOU do? Poppy Day seller?
Guys, welcome to the New World! Cutting costs is the way of ALL businesses now. If you don't like it get out and get another job. Us self-employed have seen cuts of up to 75% in our work load.
Professional carol singer?
Not that easy to 'get another job' these days.
What's the next cliche- maybe Norman Tebbit's 'get on your bike'?
stmarysmush, literally
says...
4:03pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez wrote:If you care to read the thread, Comrade Southy has parlayed the discussion into a socio-political debate.
stmarysmush, literally wrote:I think you may have lost the plot slightly
Sorry to be so hysterical, but the idea of claiming that capitalism has been "dying since the 1830s" (based on what, exactly?) is ludicrous in light of it's dominance over any other eco-political idiom on the planet. Show us your workings!
as we are discussing a potential strike action due to low wages, not some political debate based on peoples views.
Now please refrain from leaving any more comments as they are not worth reading!
If you care to read the T & Cs of the site, you'll see that at no point are you granted the power to stop me commenting. Further, if you observe basic reality, you'll notice a similar lack of such power. You are, however, afforded the option of not reading any comments you don't understand. There's a good chap
southy
says...
4:08pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally
says...
4:09pm Tue 7 Jul 09
King Mush wrote:Laugh all you want at Tebbit's advice, it certainly paid off for Lance Armstrong
Mexeman wrote:So what do YOU do? Poppy Day seller?
Guys, welcome to the New World! Cutting costs is the way of ALL businesses now. If you don't like it get out and get another job. Us self-employed have seen cuts of up to 75% in our work load.
Professional carol singer?
Not that easy to 'get another job' these days.
What's the next cliche- maybe Norman Tebbit's 'get on your bike'?
stmarysmush, literally
says...
4:10pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:Cool story, bro
stmarysmush, literally whats going to happen when you get say 1000 poverty adult people to every 1 wealthy person, you get to that stage where they going to start thinking we had enough, but the end off this century capitalist ideal will be gone one way or another, back in the 1830's the wigs relize this and kick started that social change, in the usa if you listen to some off barack speech he relize this to and it looks likes he going to kick start that same social change that we made back in the 1830's. and before you go on about communism, led to mass persecution and suffering take a look at english history and the large scale persecution and suffering thats happen and in many other capitlist countrys, it would make communism look like childs play. look what happen in capitalist burma at the moment. and thats just one place there are others like it to, molividia has gone back to communism and other ex- russian block countrys are starting to do the same they had there taste at capitalist system and dont like it, but this time they are ironing out the kinks in the system. i dont think communism is the answer for this country but socialism more than likey is.
fudez, southampton
says...
4:13pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez, southampton
says...
4:14pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:try and stick to the subject please! this is about a strike that might happen last thursday, not some mumbo-jumbo from at least 100 years ago!
stmarysmush, literally whats going to happen when you get say 1000 poverty adult people to every 1 wealthy person, you get to that stage where they going to start thinking we had enough, but the end off this century capitalist ideal will be gone one way or another, back in the 1830's the wigs relize this and kick started that social change, in the usa if you listen to some off barack speech he relize this to and it looks likes he going to kick start that same social change that we made back in the 1830's. and before you go on about communism, led to mass persecution and suffering take a look at english history and the large scale persecution and suffering thats happen and in many other capitlist countrys, it would make communism look like childs play. look what happen in capitalist burma at the moment. and thats just one place there are others like it to, molividia has gone back to communism and other ex- russian block countrys are starting to do the same they had there taste at capitalist system and dont like it, but this time they are ironing out the kinks in the system. i dont think communism is the answer for this country but socialism more than likey is.
Mexeman
says...
4:15pm Tue 7 Jul 09
King Mush wrote:What I do is live in the real world where you have to earn your living by grafting for it. Besides, if they (Penske agency workers) aren't happy they can move on, yes jobs are scarce, which is the whole point of this thread, they will jeopardise theirs and others jobs if they strike. Ford and the other Auto Manufacturers are itching to get rid of a plant where they can and actions like this bring that day closer. Jobs ARE out there, but you have to want to get one.
Mexeman wrote: Guys, welcome to the New World! Cutting costs is the way of ALL businesses now. If you don't like it get out and get another job. Us self-employed have seen cuts of up to 75% in our work load.So what do YOU do? Poppy Day seller? Professional carol singer? Not that easy to 'get another job' these days. What's the next cliche- maybe Norman Tebbit's 'get on your bike'?
fudez, southampton
says...
4:17pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Mexeman wrote:Sooooo.....poppy seller?
King Mush wrote:What I do is live in the real world where you have to earn your living by grafting for it. Besides, if they (Penske agency workers) aren't happy they can move on, yes jobs are scarce, which is the whole point of this thread, they will jeopardise theirs and others jobs if they strike. Ford and the other Auto Manufacturers are itching to get rid of a plant where they can and actions like this bring that day closer. Jobs ARE out there, but you have to want to get one.
Mexeman wrote: Guys, welcome to the New World! Cutting costs is the way of ALL businesses now. If you don't like it get out and get another job. Us self-employed have seen cuts of up to 75% in our work load.So what do YOU do? Poppy Day seller? Professional carol singer? Not that easy to 'get another job' these days. What's the next cliche- maybe Norman Tebbit's 'get on your bike'?
southy
says...
4:17pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez, southampton
says...
4:20pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:what do you mean "cool story"?
southy wrote:Cool story, bro
stmarysmush, literally whats going to happen when you get say 1000 poverty adult people to every 1 wealthy person, you get to that stage where they going to start thinking we had enough, but the end off this century capitalist ideal will be gone one way or another, back in the 1830's the wigs relize this and kick started that social change, in the usa if you listen to some off barack speech he relize this to and it looks likes he going to kick start that same social change that we made back in the 1830's. and before you go on about communism, led to mass persecution and suffering take a look at english history and the large scale persecution and suffering thats happen and in many other capitlist countrys, it would make communism look like childs play. look what happen in capitalist burma at the moment. and thats just one place there are others like it to, molividia has gone back to communism and other ex- russian block countrys are starting to do the same they had there taste at capitalist system and dont like it, but this time they are ironing out the kinks in the system. i dont think communism is the answer for this country but socialism more than likey is.
Miles Way
says...
4:21pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:Isn't Burma a military dictatorship?
stmarysmush, literally whats going to happen when you get say 1000 poverty adult people to every 1 wealthy person, you get to that stage where they going to start thinking we had enough, but the end off this century capitalist ideal will be gone one way or another, back in the 1830's the wigs relize this and kick started that social change, in the usa if you listen to some off barack speech he relize this to and it looks likes he going to kick start that same social change that we made back in the 1830's. and before you go on about communism, led to mass persecution and suffering take a look at english history and the large scale persecution and suffering thats happen and in many other capitlist countrys, it would make communism look like childs play. look what happen in capitalist burma at the moment. and thats just one place there are others like it to, molividia has gone back to communism and other ex- russian block countrys are starting to do the same they had there taste at capitalist system and dont like it, but this time they are ironing out the kinks in the system. i dont think communism is the answer for this country but socialism more than likey is.
And didn't an estimated 20 million Russians die in the USSR under Stalin's regime alone - I don't think there's any persecution or suffering in English history that really competes with that is there?
And while you're answering, where exactly is Molividia?
southy
says...
4:21pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez, southampton
says...
4:24pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:How is it?
fudez, southampton it is, its all part off the same story.
Keith Oftergrass
says...
4:26pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fudez, southampton wrote:....and just what impact will a strike have ? Oh yes, a few less unsold transits sitting in a field somewhere.
southy wrote:try and stick to the subject please! this is about a strike that might happen last thursday, not some mumbo-jumbo from at least 100 years ago!
stmarysmush, literally whats going to happen when you get say 1000 poverty adult people to every 1 wealthy person, you get to that stage where they going to start thinking we had enough, but the end off this century capitalist ideal will be gone one way or another, back in the 1830's the wigs relize this and kick started that social change, in the usa if you listen to some off barack speech he relize this to and it looks likes he going to kick start that same social change that we made back in the 1830's. and before you go on about communism, led to mass persecution and suffering take a look at english history and the large scale persecution and suffering thats happen and in many other capitlist countrys, it would make communism look like childs play. look what happen in capitalist burma at the moment. and thats just one place there are others like it to, molividia has gone back to communism and other ex- russian block countrys are starting to do the same they had there taste at capitalist system and dont like it, but this time they are ironing out the kinks in the system. i dont think communism is the answer for this country but socialism more than likey is.
Do these 'workers' really think that Ford will be too bothered if they shut the place down for a few weeks ? It will help if anything ?
Yet again, the "working man" gets led astray by a few trot Union leaders and ends up on the scrapheap, good luck lads.
stmarysmush, literally
says...
4:30pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally
says...
4:33pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Keith Oftergrass wrote:"So you think they don't have the right to protest? They should just take it?" etc. So it goes round again. They're not getting it, Keith!
fudez, southampton wrote:....and just what impact will a strike have ? Oh yes, a few less unsold transits sitting in a field somewhere.
southy wrote:try and stick to the subject please! this is about a strike that might happen last thursday, not some mumbo-jumbo from at least 100 years ago!
stmarysmush, literally whats going to happen when you get say 1000 poverty adult people to every 1 wealthy person, you get to that stage where they going to start thinking we had enough, but the end off this century capitalist ideal will be gone one way or another, back in the 1830's the wigs relize this and kick started that social change, in the usa if you listen to some off barack speech he relize this to and it looks likes he going to kick start that same social change that we made back in the 1830's. and before you go on about communism, led to mass persecution and suffering take a look at english history and the large scale persecution and suffering thats happen and in many other capitlist countrys, it would make communism look like childs play. look what happen in capitalist burma at the moment. and thats just one place there are others like it to, molividia has gone back to communism and other ex- russian block countrys are starting to do the same they had there taste at capitalist system and dont like it, but this time they are ironing out the kinks in the system. i dont think communism is the answer for this country but socialism more than likey is.
Do these 'workers' really think that Ford will be too bothered if they shut the place down for a few weeks ? It will help if anything ?
Yet again, the "working man" gets led astray by a few trot Union leaders and ends up on the scrapheap, good luck lads.
security word is genius: hate-earn
fallingdownwater
says...
4:35pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy
says...
4:38pm Tue 7 Jul 09
yes burma is a capitalist military dictatorship they are trying to stop the socialist from taken over though elections, the socialist there have all ready won the election once, and now they going to have a rerun off the election. but this time it will be fix in the capitlist favour.
20 million did die under stalin rule, 20 million died under stalin rule because thats how many they lost during the WW2 though germany mass slaughter of the russian. mind you stalin was not really a commist he just use its name.
the spelling of molividia is wrong but its a state thats over in the eastern edge off europe.
stmarysmush, literally
says...
4:47pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fallingdownwater wrote:And striking is the way to achieve that? Maybe it's worked in the past, but in this instance, Ford are already cutting the workforce, and looking to make further cuts. You don't see anything foolhardy about this? It's like threatening to kill a suicidal man
the penske red coats did not loss any wages, YOU try and run a house hold on £900 a month. we are not asking for a large pay rise just enough to keep our heads above water.
stmarysmush, literally
says...
4:53pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:Proof, or it didn't happen
Miles Way, Canada,
yes burma is a capitalist military dictatorship they are trying to stop the socialist from taken over though elections, the socialist there have all ready won the election once, and now they going to have a rerun off the election. but this time it will be fix in the capitlist favour.
20 million did die under stalin rule, 20 million died under stalin rule because thats how many they lost during the WW2 though germany mass slaughter of the russian. mind you stalin was not really a commist he just use its name.
the spelling of molividia is wrong but its a state thats over in the eastern edge off europe.
Miles Way
says...
5:02pm Tue 7 Jul 09
And BTW, it's estimated 20 Mill died under Stalin excluding war dead, still, we can dismiss him as he wasn't a real communist anyway.
Re Molivida, I guess you mean Moldova where the ruling communist party were accused of rigging the 2009 elections, leading to rioting and considerable police brutality?
colliwobbles
says...
5:04pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Once said to me was quite simply "supply & demand"
If I was ever to strike in all my employment history I'd be out of a job.
Happily employed for the same company for 14 years and still going strong despite the downturn (fingers crossed) however if it changes I'll get another...
fallingdownwater
says...
5:12pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally
says...
5:21pm Tue 7 Jul 09
fallingdownwater wrote:Doesn't mean they're not an agency. Which they are.
just to let you lot who dont know that penske is not an agency its a very large company from the usa
Imagine if this strike happens near children? Then would the selfish strikers think it was so great? You don't hate children, do you?
southy
says...
5:25pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally
says...
5:30pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy wrote:WIN! What a crushing blow! You win teh internets!
ummm stmarysmush, literally do the tolpuddle martyrs mean any thing to you.
What do they have to do with it? And, yes, I'm aware of who they were. The thing is, you - and the other deluded fools in support of this strike - seem to think that just because something works sometimes, it will work every time.
Seriously, guy, pulling that out of the air like some stunning coup de grace, that's just ludicrous. As if I'm going to slap my forehead and go "No! Dammit! I hadn't thought of that!", and as if, by that happening, this stupid strike here will somehow be a runaway success, rather than end in depressing melodrama for all concerned
stmarysmush, literally
says...
5:35pm Tue 7 Jul 09
southy
says...
6:01pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally its is fact check up on your history it happen, the torys deported them the wigs made that social change and and the home office at the time gave them a pardon.
mines was that close to bring down thatcher government 2 more weeks thats how close, and if you remember what the wapping dispute was a about. hammons union took over the printers union jobs and had the full backing of the tory sun news paper, hammon union was later expelled from the tuc.
you need to know at lest the basic behide them before quoting
oh penske is a contractors not an agency theres a small difference
the englishman
says...
6:10pm Tue 7 Jul 09
stmarysmush, literally wrote:why don't you google penske and then see if you can say they are an agency. we all know money is tight but those penske people must play an impotant role at fords so why shouldn't they have a decant wage for it.
fallingdownwater wrote:Doesn't mean they're not an agency. Which they are.
just to let you lot who dont know that penske is not an agency its a very large company from the usa
Imagine if this strike happens near children? Then would the selfish strikers think it was so great? You don't hate children, do you?
Miles Way
says...
6:18pm Tue 7 Jul 09
World problems fixed.
I'm signing off now - got to go earn some filthy capitalist bucks while they're still available..
Miles Way
says...
6:20pm Tue 7 Jul 09
the englishman wrote:
stmarysmush, literally wrote:why don't you google penske and then see if you can say they are an agency. we all know money is tight but those penske people must play an impotant role at fords so why shouldn't they have a decant wage for it.
fallingdownwater wrote:Doesn't mean they're not an agency. Which they are.
just to let you lot who dont know that penske is not an agency its a very large company from the usa
Imagine if this strike happens near children? Then would the selfish strikers think it was so great? You don't hate children, do you?
"penske people must play an impotant role at fords"
Wonderful typo - says it all.
southy
says...
6:43pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Miles Way wrote:stalin was in control of a communist country but that did not mean he was, bit like blair and brown and most off the labour party members they are torys, thats why the unions are now starting to drop the labour party.
OK Southy, Burma is the world's best example of capitalism, Stalin wasn't a communist, Moldova will light the path to your new socialist utopia & Penske contract workers will teach all the capitalist lackys a lesson by striking.
World problems fixed.
I'm signing off now - got to go earn some filthy capitalist bucks while they're still available..
you mention utopia if you look in the real distant future thats where the human race has been heading towards to for a very long time. capitalism started the ball rolling and now its out dated, with moldova it was the capitalist that fix the election thats why there was all that roiting in the end they had to hand over power to the communist who was the largest party followed by the socialist party. socialism is just the next step in getting there the peaceful way.
what pensky have to watch out for is the strike dont go international
Militant Ford Worker
says...
6:45pm Tue 7 Jul 09
Strike action is likely to succeed. Ford will not allow Penskes apalling handling to impact on production and will lean heavily on them to resolve the stand off.
Best thing for tFord to do is boot Penske out and re -hire the guys on Ford rates and conditions.
I'm sure everyone of them will tell you that if they were on Ford money - they would not be taking action.
(contrary to what most of you seem to think, Ford workers know what side their bread is buttered on)
Ford thought that if they got rid of their own guys they could replace them with 'desperate' people happy to do the same job for half the money.
Well, it sems they ain't happy now!
stmarysmush, literally
says...
7:26pm Tue 7 Jul 09
the englishman wrote:You seem to think the word "agency" has a negative connotation. Why is that? There's nothing in my book to say an agency can't be an important part of an enterprise
stmarysmush, literally wrote:why don't you google penske and then see if you can say they are an agency. we all know money is tight but those penske people must play an impotant role at fords so why shouldn't they have a decant wage for it.
fallingdownwater wrote:Doesn't mean they're not an agency. Which they are.
just to let you lot who dont know that penske is not an agency its a very large company from the usa
Imagine if this strike happens near children? Then would the selfish strikers think it was so great? You don't hate children, do you?
colmeister
says...
8:05pm Tue 7 Jul 09
B) just because a large quantity of people do roughly the same thing at the same place, shouldn't give them the opportunity to **** off home when the going gets tough or they dont like the t & c's.
i've only ever worked for small firms and sometimes for a shockingly small amount. had i staged or even threatened a 'one man walk out' i would have got myself sacked for not turning up for work or having a bad attitude.
furthermore, i just dont understand how any paid employee can, during an economic crisis like this, decide that hanging onto Jimmy Knapps' long since deaprted coat tails is the way forward!
You've got a job where you have to work for far too long for not nearly enough? wow, not many people in that position then! join the queue, go work for yourself or GET BACK TO WORK!
end of.
stmarysmush, literally
says...
9:18pm Tue 7 Jul 09
colmeister wrote:Excallent post!
A) history shows striking normally fails anyway so good luck to those who try it and the inevitable loss of their jobs that will follow
B) just because a large quantity of people do roughly the same thing at the same place, shouldn't give them the opportunity to **** off home when the going gets tough or they dont like the t & c's.
i've only ever worked for small firms and sometimes for a shockingly small amount. had i staged or even threatened a 'one man walk out' i would have got myself sacked for not turning up for work or having a bad attitude.
furthermore, i just dont understand how any paid employee can, during an economic crisis like this, decide that hanging onto Jimmy Knapps' long since deaprted coat tails is the way forward!
You've got a job where you have to work for far too long for not nearly enough? wow, not many people in that position then! join the queue, go work for yourself or GET BACK TO WORK!
end of.
/thread
Iw61
says...
6:07am Wed 8 Jul 09
This recession isnt the fault of Ford workers, Penske workers or any other workers. Its just that these guys at Penske have said enough is enough.
The strike is a protest. To protest is anyones democratic right.
I am amazed by some of the ridiculous comments expressed here, most of them who have not the intelligence, bravery or ability to fight back when fighting back is needed. The Transit may go to Turkey but not due to these strikers. It will go due to bosses greed for bigger profits. End of.
At least the Penske workers can say 'we not win but if we dont fight we surely will lose'!!
stmarysmush, literally
says...
7:59am Wed 8 Jul 09
I'm amazed at the number of people who cannot tell the difference between "democratic right" and "worthwhile action".
I'm amazed at the number of people who, in the same post, both state that the Ford plant will close regardless, and also that striking is the right thing to do.
southy
says...
11:46am Wed 8 Jul 09
Iw61 wrote:very good post Iw61
Firstly, these Penske workers are employees not agency workers. Some of them have been employed for a long time. secondly they have taken part in a legal democratic ballot to express their feelings an desire to improve their wages that have been severly hit by the credit crunch which isnt their fault. they like all car manufacturing workers are victims of the banks and employers who made hay while the sun shone but didnt put anything away when times got rough.
This recession isnt the fault of Ford workers, Penske workers or any other workers. Its just that these guys at Penske have said enough is enough.
The strike is a protest. To protest is anyones democratic right.
I am amazed by some of the ridiculous comments expressed here, most of them who have not the intelligence, bravery or ability to fight back when fighting back is needed. The Transit may go to Turkey but not due to these strikers. It will go due to bosses greed for bigger profits. End of.
At least the Penske workers can say 'we not win but if we dont fight we surely will lose'!!
also a lot off people dont relize that fords them selfs are the cause off this error. fords made to many redundant leaving a short fall off man power. pensky has jump in the say they will cover for the lost off man power, now they are demanding that there work force do this work with out extra pay, many off those guys have second jobs or there wifes go out to work just to make ends meet. them asking well demanding for they work force to do this shift work with out extra pay is a no-no, even lo fords will give pensky the extra money, pensky wants to keep this money for them selfs, pensky are all so breaking a agreement between them and there work force. when this happens then pensky should put some thing extra on the table for the work force.
alot off people who post on here dont know the differance between agency and contract workers.
southy
says...
11:58am Wed 8 Jul 09
the pensky contract workers have nothing to lose, but every thing to gain. its like if you corner a fox, once you corner it not going to go down with out a fight and will try to take you down with him. this is the state of the uk work force after 30 years of capitalism, the uk work force has no where to go, its starting to fight back and if the next government is any form of a capitalist government then theres going to be a lot more strikes.
Miles Way
says...
2:04pm Wed 8 Jul 09
southy wrote:BY nothing to lose you mean their jobs?
stmarysmush, literally, you need to grasp some thing.
the pensky contract workers have nothing to lose, but every thing to gain. its like if you corner a fox, once you corner it not going to go down with out a fight and will try to take you down with him. this is the state of the uk work force after 30 years of capitalism, the uk work force has no where to go, its starting to fight back and if the next government is any form of a capitalist government then theres going to be a lot more strikes.
And if the inevitable next capitalist govt of the UK will mean more strikes that's really smart as we struggle out of recession - other countries will take advantage and you'll see more jobs being stolen overseas.
Like it or not that is reality.
lee130
says...
7:19pm Thu 9 Jul 09
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Keith Oftergrass says...
8:28am Tue 7 Jul 09