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Leader's plans for a new tier of local government

1:27pm Friday 23rd May 2008

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Photograph of the Author By Peter Law »

THE Daily Echo can today reveal plans to form a new tier of government in Hampshire - and it is already costing you £100,000.

The powerful new body - dubbed the Hampshire Senate - is being formed to decide how millions of pounds of public money will be spent.

It is the brainchild of county council leader Ken Thornber and would have unelected members such as representatives of the armed forces, hospitals and the business community.

But anti-tax campaigners have branded the concept a waste of money and say the Senate will be another unnecessary tier of bureaucracy.

Cllr Thornber has already had to cancel plans for an all-expenses-paid two-day meeting of the Senate at a top Hampshire hotel, which would have cost more than £15,000, after several councillors pulled out.

Civic leaders reject meeting at plush country venue

THE first act of the Hampshire Senate was to spend more than £15,000 on an all-expenses paid two-day meeting at an elegant country manor.

A dozen "senators" - county, district and borough council leaders from across Hampshire - were told they would enjoy food, drinks and an overnight stay in a hotel.

They could even take advantage of the hotel's indoor pool, spa bath, sauna and diving arena - all courtesy of Hampshire County Council taxpayers.

However, the event, the first of three "master classes" costing £15,125, was cancelled at the last minute after many district and borough council leaders rejected the invitation.

One member of the Senate - which is made up of the 12 county, district and borough council leaders plus public sector representatives - said an overnight stay in a "top hotel" was "totally inappropriate".

"It's sounds like a holiday, I mean why do we need to have a discussions over canapés in the spa? And actually I don't really want to see them in a swimming costume," Eastleigh Borough Council leader Keith House said.

"I cannot understand the need to hold it in one of the top venues in the whole county when we have perfectly good conference venues at any number of local council offices.

"And this is the same organisation which has got one of the lowest spends on adult care and leaves potholes the size of Belgium."

The Taxpayers' Alliance said it was another example of politicians "living it up" at the expense of taxpayers.

"Councillors are already paid generous allowances to compensate them for the time they put in, the last thing the hard-working people of Hampshire need is a massive bill for luxury hotels," campaign director Mark Wallace said. "There is no reason why these councillors couldn't have met during the day and gone to their own homes at night."

New Forest District Council leader Mel Kendall confirmed he did have a booking to stay overnight in the hotel, while Fareham Borough Council leader Sean Woodward said he would have slept in his own bed had he attended.

The Senate "master class" sessions - organised by a team-building consultancy firm - were to be held today and yesterday at the New Place Management Centre in Shirrell Heath, north east of Southampton.

Cllr Thornber yesterday defended the £15,125 conference bill - which he said was being funded by a windfall from interest on council cash reserves - and said no cancellation fee had been incurred.

"We needed 11 district councillors in a neutral venue and I will apologise to no one for that.

"If we held it on county council premises then it would be against the very thing we are trying to do, which is to build a group of leaders together to form a Senate," he said.

No date, or venue, has been re-set for the master class, which Cllr Thornber said was intended to give council leaders an opportunity to establish the "ground rules" for the Senate.


Your Say YourEcho

Adrian Smith, says...
9:40am Fri 23 May 08

"and would have unelected members"

Stop right there. We lost one Ken a few weeks ago - time for another to go.

jesus, winchester says...
9:48am Fri 23 May 08

Another beauty of an idea Thornber. We all love you dear leader, please waste our money, and while your at it, close down a few more libraries.

Tax Payer, Cashland says...
9:57am Fri 23 May 08

No doubt Thornber wouldn't mind being elected President(!) and being able to collect a fat cat allowance at the same time. Another paper reported him claiming that "the £100,000 came out of council savings, not tax gathering...". What rot. It's all public money. Put it back into community services, not into your pocket.

Of course, opponents won't scupper the plan - when has this council ever taken any notice of what the public says?

Farmer Giles, says...
10:09am Fri 23 May 08

We need fewer pigs at the trough, not more.

When have you ever heard the hard-working taxpayer crying out for more politicians or bureaucracy?

The Nightwatchman, Southampton says...
10:50am Fri 23 May 08

Good grief, what a waste of my Council Tax money...or at least it would be if not for the fact that Southampton is a Unitary Authority, so none of the residents of the city will pay a penny towards it.

Good one Echo, attempting to make hay out of a story that has no bearing on the majority of your readers!!!

Derek, Dibden Purlieu says...
10:57am Fri 23 May 08

Thornber has a history of waste which is why I reported him to the Ombudsman..... and received a rude letter from Thornber which I show at parties for my efforts. Go Thornber, just go before you totally lose your marbles.

halftime orange, Chandler's Ford says...
11:03am Fri 23 May 08

You are fools. The government wants to divide Hampshire into smaller unitary authorities which would cost vastly more than the existing arrangements. The Senate is the cheapest way of protecting what we have and not going the way of Southampton (virtually broke) and Portsmouth (existing on sales of underground water to West Sussex).

Bob444, Soton says...
11:06am Fri 23 May 08

Why do people vote for idiots like this?

Farmer Giles, says...
11:08am Fri 23 May 08

halftime orange wrote:
You are fools. The government wants to divide Hampshire into smaller unitary authorities which would cost vastly more than the existing arrangements. The Senate is the cheapest way of protecting what we have and not going the way of Southampton (virtually broke) and Portsmouth (existing on sales of underground water to West Sussex).
Yes but this is not an either/or case - its both. We'd be fools to suppport having talking shops, especially unelected ones. If the policy to local government is wrong, it needs fixing, not papering over with more pen-pushing committees.

Ian, Winchester says...
12:36pm Fri 23 May 08

Agree that "we need fewer pigs at the trough, not more".

We also need something doing about the state of the roads and adult care services in the area before we start paying for these jollies at top hotels!!

Hugh Carres, says...
1:21pm Fri 23 May 08

What sensationalism !!

£100K equates to about 10p per Council Tax payer. Hardly a burden for a group which could make significant improvements to our lives. I for one am in favour of this wonderful plan. No doubt most of the deadbeats who will object are scroungers who don't pay taxes anyway - so keep it buttoned.

hulla, baloo says...
1:26pm Fri 23 May 08

Hugh Carres wrote:
What sensationalism !! £100K equates to about 10p per Council Tax payer. Hardly a burden for a group which could make significant improvements to our lives. I for one am in favour of this wonderful plan. No doubt most of the deadbeats who will object are scroungers who don't pay taxes anyway - so keep it buttoned.
Maybe it does, but look at what good uses the total of 100k could be put to.
Not just a few jollies for unelected members.

Fred, says...
1:29pm Fri 23 May 08

Hugh Carres wrote:
What sensationalism !! £100K equates to about 10p per Council Tax payer. Hardly a burden for a group which could make significant improvements to our lives. I for one am in favour of this wonderful plan. No doubt most of the deadbeats who will object are scroungers who don't pay taxes anyway - so keep it buttoned.
As someone who does pay tax I want to see Government get smaller - not larger.

The money you talk of is the starting point. Before long this unelected body will need staff, offices, cars, expense accounts, diversity officers, pension plans, more offices, visits to overseas groups to share ideas, more offices, oversight officers, etc.

Ian, Winchester says...
1:35pm Fri 23 May 08

I quite agree with Fred "I want to see Government get smaller - not larger".

I also want them to listen to the electorate, not unelected lobby groups, think tanks, quangos etc.

L, Winchester says...
2:14pm Fri 23 May 08

Ken Thornber himself has been the UNELECTED leader of our council for 20 years. (NB elected by councilors not by the peoples vote). This is an outrage and certainly should not be allowed to propagate itself.


Fartmeister, says...
2:18pm Fri 23 May 08

Poor old chap looks as though he belongs in the 'Sunny Acres' rest home.

Neutral, Winchester says...
3:20pm Fri 23 May 08

New Place is not as exspensive as you would think, also.. almost every hotel has a spa, gym etc.

What if he had held the event at Romsey Hilliers, which actually costs more and is one of the usual venues for such events. Yes It would have gone unremarked.

Yes I agree that holding the event in one of the many councils conference rooms would have been cheaper, but unfortunately this wouldnt have been a neutral location for all parties concerned.

Fat Controller, Moneybagsland says...
3:37pm Fri 23 May 08

All aboard the gravy train!

Pete & Dud, Heaven says...
3:40pm Fri 23 May 08

I like the way he does his hair.

Andrew Peterson, Romsey says...
3:44pm Fri 23 May 08

We do not want or need more bureaucracy. Government at ALL levels must be reduced, so as to do LESS and do it much BETTER.
This is a waste of OUR money and yet another example of HCC's warped sense of priorities- pampering their fat cat bosses rather than providing essential services for everyone else. Cllr Thornber clearly can't manage things if he needs another quango to make decisions for him. He should resign immediately.

Christoff, says...
3:52pm Fri 23 May 08

hulla wrote:
Hugh Carres wrote: What sensationalism !! £100K equates to about 10p per Council Tax payer. Hardly a burden for a group which could make significant improvements to our lives. I for one am in favour of this wonderful plan. No doubt most of the deadbeats who will object are scroungers who don't pay taxes anyway - so keep it buttoned.
Maybe it does, but look at what good uses the total of 100k could be put to. Not just a few jollies for unelected members.
the jolly was going to be about £15k....The Echo hasn't really explained where the £100k has already gone!

bishyboy, 544-200 says...
4:16pm Fri 23 May 08

So what party does this clown belong to then?

Happy_days, Whiteley says...
4:21pm Fri 23 May 08

£141,000 of tax payers money on bottled water. Thousands on biscuits and now £15,000 for a nice break.

No wonder Hampshire's Council Tax goes up higher than inflation every year. Put this lot on performance related pay and stop the waste NOW.

wotrot, Winchester says...
4:43pm Fri 23 May 08

"A dozen "senators" - county, district and borough council leaders from across Hampshire - were told they would enjoy food, drinks and an overnight stay in a hotel.

They could even take advantage of the hotel's indoor pool, spa bath, sauna and diving arena - all courtesy of Hampshire County Council taxpayers"

Cut that lot out, stick to the job in hand and they'd have only needed one day in the first place.

C Nick, says...
5:10pm Fri 23 May 08

Bob444 wrote:
Why do people vote for idiots like this?
Or to put it another way - why do idiots vote for people like this?

Maurice Le Toupee, says...
5:15pm Fri 23 May 08

Pete & Dud wrote:
I like the way he does his hair.
Coiffeured by Monsieur Cizzeurs at Grace Brothers, as personally recommended to him by young Mister Grace himself. I wonder whether he still asks for something for the weekend?

Mad Max, Somewhere says...
6:53pm Fri 23 May 08

Senators?? are they going to wander around in toga's?? I bet old "Thorney" doesn't invite anyone called Brutus to join his jolly japes....

Molly bennett, southampton says...
9:30pm Fri 23 May 08

Correct me if I am wrong but were we not told that the last unelected 'QUANGO' IE SEERA had been disbanded after much objection to its unauthorised operation which was being funded from the tax payer (via the council tax)?, is this the same organisation trying to creep back in under a different umbrella? we already have council officers who are paid a handsome salary to run the affairs of our councils ,why do we need another layer of beaurocracy? and if there is a legitimate reason for a meeting then it should be at a venue that the council already have 'council offices', if they want to have a more lavish venue then they should foot the bill from their lown purses not the taxpayer!.

Harry, says...
10:53pm Fri 23 May 08

It is a bit daft, isn't it, especially when you consider that the three leaders mentioned are also COUNTY councillors. Good on Keith House for blowing the whistle. Shame on Mel Kendal for already packing his suitcase. Looked like Sean Woodward needed an alarm clock, going by his comment. So - given that these people are all in one place already, why do they need yet another group set up? Mel Kendal earns more than £70,000 in allowances already (on top of his day job) - surely he doesn't need more? They must think that we're pushovers....

wotrot, winchester says...
11:08pm Fri 23 May 08

halftime orange wrote:
You are fools. The government wants to divide Hampshire into smaller unitary authorities which would cost vastly more than the existing arrangements. The Senate is the cheapest way of protecting what we have and not going the way of Southampton (virtually broke) and Portsmouth (existing on sales of underground water to West Sussex).
Protecting for whom? Smacks of certain prominent HCC Councillors being afraid of losing their grip.

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