Fears that QE2 could be cut up for scrap (From Daily Echo)
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Fears that QE2 could be cut up for scrap
7:33am Thursday 12th February 2009 in QE2
QE2
THE owners of Southampton’s former liner Queen Elizabeth 2 are remaining tight-lipped over fears that the world-famous Cunarder could eventually be cut up for scrap.
The current economic downturn is so serious that it has hit even oil-rich Dubai, where the liner, pictured, is now awaiting conversion into a floating hotel.
QE2's final farewell
Sources close to Dubai-owned Nakheel, which bought QE2 for £50m, have indicated that the current world financial crisis and reduced numbers of visitors may have seriously altered or postponed the plans for the conversion of the former liner.
According to shipping expert Martin Cox, formerly of Chandler’s Ford, who now lives in Los Angeles, Nakheel is considering opening the liner to the public unchanged and just as QE2 looked when she left Southampton for the last time in November 2008.
“Other options would include selling the ship for scrap, although not until public interest in the project has diminished,’’ said Mr Cox.
News of the deepening gloom surrounding the future of QE2, once the most famous liner in the world, was seized on as a possible opportunity by the Southampton consortium which, at one time, wanted to buy the ship so that it could remain in the city.
A spokesman said that they were keeping a close eye on developments.
Although Nakheel has yet to officially reveal any details of QE2’s transformation, it is known that the ship’s iconic funnel is destined to be removed and replaced by a glass structure containing luxury penthouse suites.
A spokesman for Nakheel was unavailable for comment.
Comments(54)
Big Adam
says...
8:21am Thu 12 Feb 09
Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Barack Obama, Ban Ki-Moon, Nicholas Sarkozy, Dale Winton. All are now far more likely to walk around naked in the near future.
Please publish a pointless story based upon my speculative opinion and desire to see my name in print.
For added gravitas, you should note that I once walked down Portswood High Street and shopped in the old Kwik-Save.
Thanks.
Northamboy
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8:36am Thu 12 Feb 09
Smiley69
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10:05am Thu 12 Feb 09
8:36am Thu 12 Feb 09
Its just a boat, its done its job and it now belongs to someone else so whats the big deal?
Here, here, - build a bridge and get over it!!
Big Boy
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10:35am Thu 12 Feb 09
Finlay
says...
12:17pm Thu 12 Feb 09
The greatest polluting vehicles on the face of the planet and Popeye sheds emotion for the smelly old pig. Cut it up melt it down and make cheap scissors out of it.
stay local
says...
1:33pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Am I missing something? Where is the E petition can we not have one for the boat that was built somewhere else, owned by a foreign country, and spend a little time possible here or are they just for asylum seekers.
Let's put this into perspective, just this week and old French ship has arrived in the UK. It has been looking for several years for a suitable location so it can be dismantled, this is due to the amount of toxic material on board. It is likely that the QE2 will also have a significant amounts of toxic materials, so even if the petition was started and the boat was a free gift to the city. There would still be a significant financial outlay in order to make the ship safe for visitors.
It has gone, it was never ours. Let it go, get over it
mksmith
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2:25pm Thu 12 Feb 09
She did show some wear and tear, but blame that on Carnival who invested as little as possible so they could build the over gloried QE2 imitation. No one at Carnival Corporation should forget without QE2 there would be no Cunard for Carnival to buy and build the next generation ocean liner. No amount of fluffy pillows, plush carpet or marble will ever replace the unstated elegance and very loyal following QE2 had.
Fingers crossed Nakheel could scale back the 'slice and dice' they were planning to do and keep her more in line of what they did with QM at Long Beach. If they don’t want her I just hope that she comes home where she belongs and become a strong tourist revenue for Southampton. With the correct investment, dedication and proper management and planning QE2 would succeed in Southampton.
Miles Sway
says...
2:49pm Thu 12 Feb 09
that's possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen posted her
if Southampton owed her fame to the QE2 you'd have thought there'd be some real will and finance to have saved her from a fate in Dubai - there wasn't. Says it all really.
Bosun
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2:57pm Thu 12 Feb 09
southy
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3:21pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Miles Sway
says...
3:50pm Thu 12 Feb 09
southy wrote:Hi Southy
mksmith you talk about the old queen mary at long beach, i give you an up date on here, most of the decks are now closed to the public, work is being carried out to strengthen the bulkheads ( there was a load removed ) this is in all in aid off her sea trip that lays ahead off her.
Where's the old QM off to?
southy
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3:54pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Long in the tooth
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4:30pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Ben Doone
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4:35pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Bosun wrote:Bosun
Perhaps Keith hamilton can find out how much it would cost to berth the QE2 in Southampton. You certainly would not get a berth free and this cost alone could make any proposal to bring her back uneconomical.
I am sure it would be lovely to have the QE2 in Soton but, looking at ABP's customer base in Soton can't see where it could go. ABP,as a commercial enterprise, will concentrate on cargo and active passenger ships which bring in regular revenue
Perhaps QE2 could be accommodated alongside Dibden Bay when that is finally developed (in 10 yrs time?)
However this wouldnt be within the necessary timeframe and assume it would be quite expensive to maintain any non active ship in the UK's damp environment altho HMS Warrior seems to do Ok in P'mouth.
As for the old Q Mary coming to the UK.Forget this.It would cost an absolute fortune to tow the ship round from California as it couldnt move under its own steam. Doubt if any one would insure the risk
southy
says...
4:48pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Long in the tooth wrote:well long you would not know whats been going on in the last few years now would you about the QM1, she is old is right, has for fragile her only weakness is the missing bulkheads thats why all the work being done on her now, replacing the bulkheads, her hull and the rest off her is in top condition and only suffers if minor surface rust, has for her course back dont have to be around drakes passage, they will bring her though the canal and when she do move she will be sitting on a floating dry dock.
Well done, Southy! Imagination running riot again. There is NO WAY that the "Queen Mary" will return to the UK. She's too old, too fragile and would break up under tow in the slightest of seas, let alone negotiating Cape Horn in a Force 12. By the way, wrong guess last time - I'm not a yachtie...!
Long in the tooth
says...
5:19pm Thu 12 Feb 09
....u sure can she get thru' Panama Canal then?
southy
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5:44pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser
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6:14pm Thu 12 Feb 09
tricky19791
says...
6:24pm Thu 12 Feb 09
southy
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6:27pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser wrote:the ship has new owners the lease is for the car park, southampton is not on the list for her to go, there are 16 locations only 2 of the 16 are in the uk, her decks are not rotten, the work being carry out is replacing the missing bulkheads, and if you kept up to date with it, the reason why she came up for sale in the first place.was because there is/was arguement over the ownship of the car park and one of the two companys went bankrupt and has been tied up in usa court for over 2 years,(the people that owned the ship owed the people who own the car park and lagoon money)
Southy where do you get these ideas from? There was talk in the Echo 3 years ago of bringing her to Southampton but that went nowhere as always, mainly because she's in not fit state to be moved even if ABP offered a permanent berth. Where was this consortium when her lease was up for auction two weeks ago? Money run out during the current restoration (that's why areas were closed while they replaced rotting decking just like they'd improved the food and painted the funnels, not to bring her back to this country) and her new owners went broke like all the rest. She is going nowhere except to a recycling plant one of these days when Long Beach have had enough of her making no money. She moves, she crumbles due to all the decades of neglect, simple as that.
losangelesshipstalker
says...
6:43pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Ben Doone
says...
6:46pm Thu 12 Feb 09
mksmith wrote:Mr Smith I have to take issue with you on Para 2.
Let’s not forget the fame that QE2 brought to Southampton, being the first Cunard ocean liner to bear Southampton on her stern. In addition the enormous revenue generated. Just because something is old does that mean it should be dispose of? If so, why does the government pour tons of taxpayer money into Historic buildings? Are they worth it? QE2 was part of British history and should not be forgotten. The last true BRITISH ocean-liner, built in the UK. She did show some wear and tear, but blame that on Carnival who invested as little as possible so they could build the over gloried QE2 imitation. No one at Carnival Corporation should forget without QE2 there would be no Cunard for Carnival to buy and build the next generation ocean liner. No amount of fluffy pillows, plush carpet or marble will ever replace the unstated elegance and very loyal following QE2 had. Fingers crossed Nakheel could scale back the 'slice and dice' they were planning to do and keep her more in line of what they did with QM at Long Beach. If they don’t want her I just hope that she comes home where she belongs and become a strong tourist revenue for Southampton. With the correct investment, dedication and proper management and planning QE2 would succeed in Southampton.
Cunard had been in a real mess under several owners, Trafalgar House/Kavaerner amongst others, who had to sell off all the 'family silver' to counteract the effect jet travel and containerisation had on the Cunard Liners and General Cargo ships in the 1960's and beyond.
Believe me if Carnival hadn't come along when they did and rescued Cunard, the famous old name would have disappeared many years ago.
As for the QM2 , whether you like the ship or not, it was a massive leap of faith by Mickey Arison (Carnivals owner)to invest $750m on a replacement ocean liner.
The 'QE2'/'Canberra' etc were ships of a different era as were the 'Mauretania'/'Bereng
eria' etc etc before them.
One of these days posters will be on here lamenting the sale/scrapping of 'QM2'/'QueenVictoria
'/'Aurora' etc.
Thats the way it is with ships. Very emotive subject, ships,and long may it stay that way.
Sad to say that QE2 would never pay its way as attraction in Soton.
I understand that 'Brittania' is struggling to make ends meet up in Leith
Southampton Cruiser
says...
6:51pm Thu 12 Feb 09
.com/index.php?page=
restorationhighlight
s
Ben Doone
says...
6:54pm Thu 12 Feb 09
losangelesshipstalkeInteresting comment and much more believable than some of the stuff put forward on here from those thousands of miles away
r wrote:
Queen Mary in Long Beach is not for sale nor has she every been. She is owned by the City of Long Beach and what gets sold is the lease to run the ship not the ship itself. I've been to see the queen in the last few weeks and know people personally who work aboard her and she's having some teak decking repaired as well as being repainted. They are doing absolutely no structural work. If you knew anything about her you'd know she is too long to go through the current Panama canal, and if someone is planning to put her on a floating dry dock it would be news to all of us in southern california. Please stop commenting if you don't know what you're talking about.
Actually there is another well known Southampton icon looking for a good home.
A bit eccentric but cheap to keep and has a great line in tall stories.
Step forward.............
....................
....................
....................
....................
........'Southey'
Will miss him though!!
southy
says...
7:50pm Thu 12 Feb 09
,(looks like a multi name) QM1 was never ever owned by any city or town (but did hold the lease for a short while), but private companys base in the long beach area. but he is right about bits of the wooden deck being replace, but the steel deck under the wooden show deck is solid. any one must know where i disapear to over xmas for a few days was because i was on board the QM1. and Southampton Cruiser, if you read the shipping news mag there was an item in there early last year and you would off seen my name got a mention.
losangelesshipstalker
says...
8:07pm Thu 12 Feb 09
southy
says...
8:31pm Thu 12 Feb 09
southy
says...
8:45pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser
says...
9:03pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Oh dear Southy. Do you know how desperate you're sounding? Yet again ignoring about the consortium buying her or the Echo article 3 years ago so you clearly know nothing. Instead you mention a magazine without naming it and expect people to see your name which would be your real name and not "Southy". Also rather convenient it was a year ago rather than recently so no way of checking. The Echo published my letter back in 2006 and umpteen others about the plans to bring her to Southampton and you can ask the Echo about that. The man behind it is called Roger Hardingham and BBC South also covered this. As for the Panama Canal, while looking that up you fail to take into consideration that if she was in a good enough condition to be moved even a mm without it it being a risk, the floating dock or whatever was used (as also mentioned in the 2006 Southampton plans) needed to bring her across from Long Beach means she would not fit and would need to be towed around the Cape. The QE2 just fitted and she's shorter.
Bosun
says...
9:42pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Miles Sway wrote:Any jobs going?
southy wrote: mksmith you talk about the old queen mary at long beach, i give you an up date on here, most of the decks are now closed to the public, work is being carried out to strengthen the bulkheads ( there was a load removed ) this is in all in aid off her sea trip that lays ahead off her.Hi Southy Where's the old QM off to?
Miles Sway
says...
10:02pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Bosun wrote:By the reaction to Southy's about moving the QM I wouldn't send in that CV yet bosun.
Miles Sway wrote:Any jobs going?
southy wrote: mksmith you talk about the old queen mary at long beach, i give you an up date on here, most of the decks are now closed to the public, work is being carried out to strengthen the bulkheads ( there was a load removed ) this is in all in aid off her sea trip that lays ahead off her.Hi Southy Where's the old QM off to?
400 new jobs with HCC apparently, if you've got a cat o nine tails you could put it to good use on the slackers there.
southy
says...
10:24pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser if thats the case tell me how did the QM1 fit into number 7 dry dock or the floating dry dock that use to be in southampton, when you know the number 7 dry dock longest inside part is at the top and is only 1,000 feet, its less than that at the bottom, the shortest part off the panama canal is longer and wider and deeper than number7 dry dock. and Southampton Cruiser if you belive he or she from LA. thats up to you, i dont they failed not saying any thing about the building on the reclaim land next to the QM1
southy
says...
10:45pm Thu 12 Feb 09
xfawley
says...
8:14am Fri 13 Feb 09
allotment-grower
says...
9:27am Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser
says...
12:29pm Fri 13 Feb 09
southy
says...
12:48pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser wrote:stop trying to cop out, but you could start by buying the shipping news mag that comes out once a mth. the same thing was said about the s.s. great britian, look what happen there, oh she endded up in bristol. the same things was said then, the owners will not sale, it cost to much, its totaly rotten, a lot more go's on behide the scene's and some off it dont get published. but if you want proof then the best proof is for you to wait a few years and see what happens.
Okay Southy, prove it. Give us a link so we can all read about these plans.
i remind ben doone off £25 to charity last time he question me and another person.
Ben Doone
says...
2:08pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser wrote:Southampton Cruiser
Okay Southy, prove it. Give us a link so we can all read about these plans.
By his own admission Southey relies on info from a mate in Totton so might be difficult.
Southey I presume the publication you refer to is 'Ships Monthly'
A good read. However you once said, in a response to poster some time ago ...'never believe what you read in books...!!!
Meanwhile can confirm I have sent a donation of £25 to the RNLI via their Internet site. I have a good friend who works for the RNLI so happy with your choice of charity.
Mind you it took you some time to find out the information which was subject to the wager. Presume you used ABP's website
southy
says...
2:24pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser
says...
3:26pm Fri 13 Feb 09
southy
says...
3:35pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser
says...
3:42pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser
says...
3:47pm Fri 13 Feb 09
kaponig
says...
4:00pm Fri 13 Feb 09
southy
says...
4:06pm Fri 13 Feb 09
southy
says...
4:09pm Fri 13 Feb 09
kaponig wrote:she not going to be scrap, how much did they pay for it, and how much would they get for scrap, they would lose to many millions pounds if scrap.
This beautiful ship cannot and must not be allowed to go for scrap. If our governement have spent all our money on saving pathetically inadequate bankers we should have a public appeal to save our ship She could then be bought back to Southampton where she belongs and put to good use, perhaps as a conference centre, tourist attraction etc.
Southampton Cruiser
says...
4:11pm Fri 13 Feb 09
southy
says...
4:22pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Ben Doone
says...
4:32pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser wrote:Many of us have got to know Southey quite well. He has a lot of good info but most of it is jumbled with info from his mate in the Totton pub and then becomes irrefutable fact.
But Southy, since you're claiming to be such an expert and you know where the site is with all the info, post the link here so we can all read it. That way you can prove this is true. Otherwise we can only assume you're making things up.
One interesting point raised though.
Seem to recollect that QE2 was valued at around $50m as scrap when scrap prices were strong. Understand the scrap rate for the ship is now around $20/$25m. The people over here reportedly paid between $80/$100m for the ship BUT this included quite an extensive inventory of paintings/models and other saleabl artifacts.
Whatever the value of the fitures & fittings, the new owners are facing a sizeable loss if QE2 gets sold for scrap.
One thing that is very unlikely to happen is a return of QE2 to Southampton. However there is more chance of this than moving Q Mary as Southey suggests.
Southampton Cruiser
says...
4:47pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Southampton Cruiser
says...
5:06pm Fri 13 Feb 09
As for info, there are countless fora around the internet plus news sites anyone can get it from. People can know crew members personally or talk to them during cruises and get it from them. Therefore many are just as 'expert' as Southy.
B. L.
says...
5:17pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Northamboy wrote:OMG! Southy, he called it a BOAT and you haven't responded. What is the world coming to. :)
Its just a boat, its done its job and it now belongs to someone else so whats the big deal?
southy
says...
2:56pm Sat 14 Feb 09
B. L. wrote:yes i did see it but i was in a rush last night got called out,
Northamboy wrote:OMG! Southy, he called it a BOAT and you haven't responded. What is the world coming to. :)
Its just a boat, its done its job and it now belongs to someone else so whats the big deal?
Southampton Cruiser think about it like this, its a jig-saw puzzle with each bit a person who knows a little bit off info like your self, pretty well useless on the own, and very narrow sighted but once you start connecting up with right people and seeing how the bits of info fit together then you start to see a wider picture, try joining one of the many hiden marine web forums.
rh
says...
9:02am Sun 15 Feb 09
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