Call time on demise of our pubs, says Denham (From Daily Echo)

The once Merry Oak pub is now a vets and the once Winning Post and Eagle pubs are now shops, they are serving the community in a different way to how the pubs once were, they are not empty, maybe Mr Denham should look around his constituency before making statements to the media.

You can't make people go into pubs. The Merry Oak was a terrible establishment and the Winning Post wasn't much better. More recently The Percy Arms closed in Bitterne but perhaps as that's on Royston's patch it wasn't worthy of a mention.

Condor Man wrote:
You can't make people go into pubs. The Merry Oak was a terrible establishment and the Winning Post wasn't much better. More recently The Percy Arms closed in Bitterne but perhaps as that's on Royston's patch it wasn't worthy of a mention.

I bet the Percy being closed is a bonus for Royston, more money for the Tory club just up the road, mind you some of the Percy's clientèle wouldn't be allowed in the car park let alone the club itself.

John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

Two things have spelt the end for many pubs. Firstly it is the excessive cost of drinking in one. Most people cannot afford over £3 for a pint when they can sit at home, and secondly they can smoke if they want with a case of beer for a tenner.
I personally hate smoking in pubs but if they allowed them to have smoking bars and non smoking bars it would help. Lastly,stop taxing the customer out of pubs and they won't go bust!

Most pubs would turn a reasonable profit (to a licensee) if it wasn't for:
a/ overpriced rental of premises (dictated by a pubco)
b/ overpriced products (dictated and provided solely by a pubco)
c/ over taxation of product sold in a pub (a situation which is exploited by supermarkets with their cheap booze sold as a loss leader).
Goverment dictates the taxation.

The pubcos are simply unable to self regulate their business - the 'value' of a pub is only monetary to them. Legislation is long overdue.

Guess who advises governement on the self-regulation vs legislation of pubcos?
It's the er... pubcos! Triples all round and it's your turn over the barrel!

Let the licensee decide where to by his/her products directly from (gasp, perhaps even from a brewery) - as would be desirable in a free market (a real free market that is).

It's not just JD who appears as hypocrite here - all succesive goverments have sat back on this issue.

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

People have never gone to a pub for cheap drinks. They go there to socialise.
Since the ban more people are drinking at home where they can drink and smoke.
With more people drinking at home there has been a big increase in the number of children drinking on a regular basis, because the drinks are more available.

Drop the beer prices would help.

When I can actually afford a Cider Visor again I'll go back in. £3.50 a pint?

Sorry, do one.

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote: John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

You would expect nothing else from certain contributors!

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

It was Thatcher that wanted Corporations to take over she aided them in every way.

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

13 years of new labour, labour is now is no different to the torys they have the same policy, when you vote now you dont change policy you just change names.

The Denham Arms sounds quite nice. G & T and a game of 'spot the councillor'.

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

13 years of new labour, labour is now is no different to the torys they have the same policy, when you vote now you dont change policy you just change names.

Hmm, so there's no point in voting then?
Maybe a one party state would suit you better.

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

13 years of new labour, labour is now is no different to the torys they have the same policy, when you vote now you dont change policy you just change names.

Hmm, so there's no point in voting then?
Maybe a one party state would suit you better.

I mentioned Tesco because of their association with MGRA's beloved Tory Party. Lady Porter, the daughter of the founder of Tesco was leader of Westminster Council and a close associate of Thatcher. Check out her details on Wiki!

Well if the government puts in a minimum charge for alcohol maybe it should just raise tax on all supermarkets/shops selling alcohol & lowering the tax on pubs.
Usually a well run pub won't serve underage drinkers,has a good clientele base/regulars & isn't a hassle to the local area.
Then maybe you could have it so micro breweries can go into a franchise situation where a Landlord/owner can set charges after buying from micro brewery & not have to worry about paying rent, bringing down the price in the pub & bringing back the older drinker.
The micro brewery would make it's money back on the increase in beer sales.
Instead of a great pub Old Thatch being lost it could have been saved

I'm no economist, But I don't recall Pubs closing at the rate they currently are before the smoking Ban. No one in parliament wants to address this issue, as it would no doubt be seen as an unpopular move to suggest repealing the ban. It would be interesting to see if they modified the ban so that Pubs could decide whether to ban smoking or not, which pubs would fare better?

There is a very simple solution to local Pubs being forced to close, Reform the Smoking Ban and allow both the Industry and the Public CHOICE once again. Separate rooms or venues would give the former Majority of Pub and Club customers the chance to have a social life once again and the smoking allowed Pubs would return to Profit.

In a local pub last week £3.90 for a pint of premium lager, I wont be going back into that pub when the same drink is less than £1 in the local shop (500ml can), a few cans at a friend house is a cheap night out, is it any surprise people stay in?
Also im not a smoker but do believe that smoking should be allowed in a pub, I noticed the decline in customers as soon as the smoking ban came into force.

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

13 years of new labour, labour is now is no different to the torys they have the same policy, when you vote now you dont change policy you just change names.

Hmm, so there's no point in voting then?
Maybe a one party state would suit you better.

I mentioned Tesco because of their association with MGRA's beloved Tory Party. Lady Porter, the daughter of the founder of Tesco was leader of Westminster Council and a close associate of Thatcher. Check out her details on Wiki!

And the money for homes scandal, don't forget that Linesman.

Shoong one party state in a way you all ready got that, by the fact that there is no real differences in policy, remember what Bliar said on going into number Ten, "there will be no change in thatchers policy" with the top political partys we are no different form the USA, you can have 100% Capitalism with the Torys or you can have 100% Capitalism with Labour, all political partys offer the same all but one and thats the TUSC who are the only ones offering real change in policy.

yreffej1980 wrote:
I'm no economist, But I don't recall Pubs closing at the rate they currently are before the smoking Ban. No one in parliament wants to address this issue, as it would no doubt be seen as an unpopular move to suggest repealing the ban. It would be interesting to see if they modified the ban so that Pubs could decide whether to ban smoking or not, which pubs would fare better?

You know what makes that anti-smoking law worse, is the fact you are banned from smoking at the work place and in public buildings, but when it comes to MP's and Lords they are allowed to smoke in there work places.

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

13 years of new labour, labour is now is no different to the torys they have the same policy, when you vote now you dont change policy you just change names.

Hmm, so there's no point in voting then?
Maybe a one party state would suit you better.

I mentioned Tesco because of their association with MGRA's beloved Tory Party. Lady Porter, the daughter of the founder of Tesco was leader of Westminster Council and a close associate of Thatcher. Check out her details on Wiki!

And the money for homes scandal, don't forget that Linesman.

Shoong one party state in a way you all ready got that, by the fact that there is no real differences in policy, remember what Bliar said on going into number Ten, "there will be no change in thatchers policy" with the top political partys we are no different form the USA, you can have 100% Capitalism with the Torys or you can have 100% Capitalism with Labour, all political partys offer the same all but one and thats the TUSC who are the only ones offering real change in policy.

That is exactly what I was referring to Southy.

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

13 years of new labour, labour is now is no different to the torys they have the same policy, when you vote now you dont change policy you just change names.

Hmm, so there's no point in voting then?
Maybe a one party state would suit you better.

I mentioned Tesco because of their association with MGRA's beloved Tory Party. Lady Porter, the daughter of the founder of Tesco was leader of Westminster Council and a close associate of Thatcher. Check out her details on Wiki!

And the money for homes scandal, don't forget that Linesman.

Shoong one party state in a way you all ready got that, by the fact that there is no real differences in policy, remember what Bliar said on going into number Ten, "there will be no change in thatchers policy" with the top political partys we are no different form the USA, you can have 100% Capitalism with the Torys or you can have 100% Capitalism with Labour, all political partys offer the same all but one and thats the TUSC who are the only ones offering real change in policy.

That is exactly what I was referring to Southy.

The word 'gerrymandering' springs to mind.

I cannot imagine that Lady Porter was making political donations to the Labour party.

just being help do some books for a pub under a big pubco. Excluding VAT - cost price for a bottle of bud £1.36 - pint of Fosters £1.80. Way too high.

tug wilson wrote:
There is a very simple solution to local Pubs being forced to close, Reform the Smoking Ban and allow both the Industry and the Public CHOICE once again. Separate rooms or venues would give the former Majority of Pub and Club customers the chance to have a social life once again and the smoking allowed Pubs would return to Profit.

I've always thought there should be a chain of pubs that allow smoking on their premises. If you and a bunch of friends are going to the "Smokey Joe's", for example, rather than the Wetherspoons, you already know there will be smokers in there, smoking.

dolomiteman wrote:
In a local pub last week £3.90 for a pint of premium lager, I wont be going back into that pub when the same drink is less than £1 in the local shop (500ml can), a few cans at a friend house is a cheap night out, is it any surprise people stay in?
Also im not a smoker but do believe that smoking should be allowed in a pub, I noticed the decline in customers as soon as the smoking ban came into force.

Are you close to Millbrook Rugby club? Lordshill ? pay £20 a year associate membership & pay £2-60 a pint of Lager.
This is a sports club so it's non profit making & without brewery/company rents can charge less than a pub.
you have Eastleigh,Trojans & Southampton Rugby clubs why not pop down & give your local club a try ( pun not intended)

Re. the smoking bit:- government taxes the cr@p out of tobacco and then tells us we can't smoke it! Twisted logic from twisted, cheating theives.

Whilst we're on the subject what about Bingo halls? Half those in Southampton- including one in Woolston, have closed since the smoking ban came in.

Whilst we're on the subject what about Bingo halls? Half those in Southampton- including one in Woolston, have closed since the smoking ban came in.

loosehead wrote:

dolomiteman wrote: In a local pub last week £3.90 for a pint of premium lager, I wont be going back into that pub when the same drink is less than £1 in the local shop (500ml can), a few cans at a friend house is a cheap night out, is it any surprise people stay in? Also im not a smoker but do believe that smoking should be allowed in a pub, I noticed the decline in customers as soon as the smoking ban came into force.

Are you close to Millbrook Rugby club? Lordshill ? pay £20 a year associate membership & pay £2-60 a pint of Lager. This is a sports club so it's non profit making & without brewery/company rents can charge less than a pub. you have Eastleigh,Trojans & Southampton Rugby clubs why not pop down & give your local club a try ( pun not intended)

Cheers for the thought but not im not near any of those areas, i have been in some working mens/ sports clubs with friends and yes the prices are a lot cheaper but the £20 taxi ride home kinda outweighs the cheaper drink argument ( yes I know some people are never happy are they?)

dolomiteman wrote:

loosehead wrote:

dolomiteman wrote: In a local pub last week £3.90 for a pint of premium lager, I wont be going back into that pub when the same drink is less than £1 in the local shop (500ml can), a few cans at a friend house is a cheap night out, is it any surprise people stay in? Also im not a smoker but do believe that smoking should be allowed in a pub, I noticed the decline in customers as soon as the smoking ban came into force.

Are you close to Millbrook Rugby club? Lordshill ? pay £20 a year associate membership & pay £2-60 a pint of Lager. This is a sports club so it's non profit making & without brewery/company rents can charge less than a pub. you have Eastleigh,Trojans & Southampton Rugby clubs why not pop down & give your local club a try ( pun not intended)

Cheers for the thought but not im not near any of those areas, i have been in some working mens/ sports clubs with friends and yes the prices are a lot cheaper but the £20 taxi ride home kinda outweighs the cheaper drink argument ( yes I know some people are never happy are they?)

Where do you live?

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

Yeah Quite Right.
Denham's Government under that slime
ball Blair, started to kill of pubs
with the introduction of the smoking
ban.Matters not who is in power,
Tobacco tax is the third largest source
of revenue.Now this coalition shower
has killed off the tobacco vending
industry. You try contacting Dodgy
Denham, he doesn't even have the
courtesy to reply. useless creep.

opera phantom wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Linesman wrote:

MGRA wrote:
John Denham's goverment spent 13 years sponsoring the demise of pubs by sitting back and watching company's like Inntrepeneur destroy old established pubs and make franchisee pub "owners" go bust in their 1000s. They also failed to stop supermarkets selling alcohol at a loss for 13 years to get people to buy overpriced baked beans. Its TOO late John. The culture here in the south had changed now anyway as it happens.... pubs no longer fit the bill....

I seem to recall that Tesco were selling cut-price booze during the Thatcher years, so please don't blame the demise of the pub on Labour.

The thirteen years of Labour rule wasn't long enough to reverse this cut-price tactic then?

Yeah Quite Right.
Denham's Government under that slime
ball Blair, started to kill of pubs
with the introduction of the smoking
ban.Matters not who is in power,
Tobacco tax is the third largest source
of revenue.Now this coalition shower
has killed off the tobacco vending
industry. You try contacting Dodgy
Denham, he doesn't even have the
courtesy to reply. useless creep.

When BAT were being hammered out of this country by the EU & Tony Blairs Government Denham nor Whitehead would side or help their own constituents who were working there.
BAT warned all other industries they could be next,we here the Anti Alcohol brigade now we have the anti Bacon sarnies,sausages & other forms of food brigade on the telly today,what next?
I'm not a smoker but a pub with a good air conditioner made it okay for me to be in a pub with smokers if it was to bad I could always move on to another pub.
We have the news that with the population rising the way it is & we wont be able to feed ourselves then this news that if we want to live longer we mustn't eat,drink or smoke? Bean Sprouts & Veggies are bad for you ask the Germans.
There are laws in place about serving to minors or buying for minors & about serving drunks or known alcoholics so why tax us out of the pubs why not just implement the laws that we have?
Why not have a smoking pub & then a non smoking pub?it would be your choice then wouldn't it?