Staffordshire bull terrier attacked a Shar-Pei

Daily Echo: Anne Prescott Anne Prescott

A HAMPSHIRE canine facing death row after attacking another dog has been given a reprieve.

Samson the Staffordshire bull terrier has been given one final chance by a court after attacking another dog.

Southampton magistrates ruled that Samson could be spared the death sentence as long as a number of restrictions were put in place by his owner Anne Prescott.

But the 47-year-old carer was told that should she fail to comply with any one of those orders the five-yearold family dog, which she has owned since it was a puppy, would immediately be put down.

The court heard how Samson escaped from Prescott’s home in Rosewall Road, Southampton, while being looked after by her 15-year-old daughter as she was visiting her neighbour, on April 9, this year.

The dog ended up a few streets away in Jupiter Close, where Mark and Michelle Roberts opened their front door to their son and found the Staffordshire bull terrier on their pathway.

Samson ran inside their home and attacked their Shar-Pei, biting it on its neck, until Mr Roberts was able to separate the two with a deck chair.

The Shar-Pei was left with six puncture holes to its neck and was only saved thanks to the amount of neck fat which is a characteristic of the breed.

The court also heard that this was not the first time Samson had attacked.

In December 2009 he had escaped from the front garden and attacked a dog and its owner, but no further action was taken.

In mitigation, Susan Ridge told the court that Prescott immediately showed remorse for the “unfortunate accident” and has already taken a number of steps to prevent it happening again, including the use of a muzzle when outside the house.

Dog behaviour expert Dr Anne McBride told the court that Samson did not pose a threat to humans and that he only had issues with others dogs which could be managed with training.

Prescott pleaded guilty to being in charge of a dangerous dog which was out of control in a public place and was ordered to pay £755 in fines and to follow all of the restrictions in the Contingency Destruction Order.

These include installing a dog gate in the hallway to act as a barrier should the front door be left open, to always wear a muzzle when in public and to neuter the dog.

Outside of court Prescott told the Daily Echo that she was “relieved” that her dog was saved from the death sentence.

Comments (25)

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9:28am Sun 18 Nov 12

Pikey Pete says...

As soon as this breed attacks once. Put it down. It will do it again and again.

Next time might be some little child.

Put it down now.!!!
As soon as this breed attacks once. Put it down. It will do it again and again. Next time might be some little child. Put it down now.!!! Pikey Pete
  • Score: 0

9:39am Sun 18 Nov 12

8089 says...

**** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!?
**** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!? 8089
  • Score: 0

9:51am Sun 18 Nov 12

The Wickham Man says...

8089 wrote:
**** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!?
Yes it's the owners fault for failing to train the dog, but what consolation is that for a child who has just been mauled? If the dog has gone out of control once it will happen again, so what are the rest of the population supposed to do in the meantime? duh.
[quote][p][bold]8089[/bold] wrote: **** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!?[/p][/quote]Yes it's the owners fault for failing to train the dog, but what consolation is that for a child who has just been mauled? If the dog has gone out of control once it will happen again, so what are the rest of the population supposed to do in the meantime? duh. The Wickham Man
  • Score: 0

9:55am Sun 18 Nov 12

Stillness says...

Thank God Pete is such an expert, on everything. What would we do without him?
Thank God Pete is such an expert, on everything. What would we do without him? Stillness
  • Score: 0

10:01am Sun 18 Nov 12

freefinker says...

ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem. freefinker
  • Score: 0

10:20am Sun 18 Nov 12

Lockssmart says...

I blame DLT
I blame DLT Lockssmart
  • Score: 0

10:33am Sun 18 Nov 12

Plum Pudding says...

freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony.... Plum Pudding
  • Score: 0

10:46am Sun 18 Nov 12

freefinker says...

Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
[quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us. freefinker
  • Score: 0

11:04am Sun 18 Nov 12

Stillness says...

freefinker wrote:
Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be.
By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again...............
..
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.[/p][/quote]You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be. By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again............... .. Stillness
  • Score: 0

11:13am Sun 18 Nov 12

Uberarticuno says...

In December 2009 it had escaped and attacked a dog and its owner.

Not a threat to humans.

Well, that clears that up...
In December 2009 it had escaped and attacked a dog and its owner. Not a threat to humans. Well, that clears that up... Uberarticuno
  • Score: 0

11:19am Sun 18 Nov 12

freefinker says...

.. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis.

Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop.

I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt.

However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell
.. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis. Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop. I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt. However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell freefinker
  • Score: 0

11:20am Sun 18 Nov 12

freefinker says...

Stillness wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be.
By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again...............

..
.. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis.

Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop.

I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt.

However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell
[quote][p][bold]Stillness[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.[/p][/quote]You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be. By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again............... ..[/p][/quote].. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis. Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop. I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt. However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell freefinker
  • Score: 0

12:43pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Stillness says...

freefinker wrote:
Stillness wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be.
By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again...............


..
.. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis.

Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop.

I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt.

However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell
If you fancy a day trawling some animal behavior sites you will find plenty of very well respected reports from animal behaviorists (not dog trainers) that dogs are so far removed from wolves that they should not be compared. A large part of the reason that older studies by ethologists related the two so closely was that they were studying captive wolves and not wolves in their natural environment. One of the major findings of the latter work was that dogs do NOT want to be leader of the pack. They are far too sensible to want the job, why would they if they are well feed, have shelter and feel safe? They only step up for that roll if they sense a weakness in the existing leader. I do believe that that does cross over in to canine behavior and is a good indication of where to look when dealing with problem dogs.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stillness[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.[/p][/quote]You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be. By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again............... ..[/p][/quote].. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis. Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop. I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt. However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell[/p][/quote]If you fancy a day trawling some animal behavior sites you will find plenty of very well respected reports from animal behaviorists (not dog trainers) that dogs are so far removed from wolves that they should not be compared. A large part of the reason that older studies by ethologists related the two so closely was that they were studying captive wolves and not wolves in their natural environment. One of the major findings of the latter work was that dogs do NOT want to be leader of the pack. They are far too sensible to want the job, why would they if they are well feed, have shelter and feel safe? They only step up for that roll if they sense a weakness in the existing leader. I do believe that that does cross over in to canine behavior and is a good indication of where to look when dealing with problem dogs. Stillness
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Sun 18 Nov 12

freefinker says...

Stillness wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Stillness wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be.
By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again...............



..
.. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis.

Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop.

I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt.

However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell
If you fancy a day trawling some animal behavior sites you will find plenty of very well respected reports from animal behaviorists (not dog trainers) that dogs are so far removed from wolves that they should not be compared. A large part of the reason that older studies by ethologists related the two so closely was that they were studying captive wolves and not wolves in their natural environment. One of the major findings of the latter work was that dogs do NOT want to be leader of the pack. They are far too sensible to want the job, why would they if they are well feed, have shelter and feel safe? They only step up for that roll if they sense a weakness in the existing leader. I do believe that that does cross over in to canine behavior and is a good indication of where to look when dealing with problem dogs.
I take in all you say, and as I have told you before I have briefly studied ethology although not to your degree of expertise.

My observations are that dogs do follow the same hierarchy patterns of wolves. It’s just that in domestic situations almost all are brought up from birth in circumstances where the human ‘master’ is imprinted as ‘leader of the pack’.

However, the wolf instincts are still fully intact. Two examples: (a) the dingo – a domesticated breed gone feral and (b) the numerous examples in several Mediterranean and Asian cities of feral packs of mixed breeds of dogs. In both these examples the natural wolf hierarchy returns – in the case of (b) extremely rapidly for new ‘recruits’.

Dogs have only very slightly modified wolf instincts (some breeds more than others I grant you). However, they are all potentially dangerous – thus my initial comment.
[quote][p][bold]Stillness[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stillness[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.[/p][/quote]You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be. By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again............... ..[/p][/quote].. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis. Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop. I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt. However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell[/p][/quote]If you fancy a day trawling some animal behavior sites you will find plenty of very well respected reports from animal behaviorists (not dog trainers) that dogs are so far removed from wolves that they should not be compared. A large part of the reason that older studies by ethologists related the two so closely was that they were studying captive wolves and not wolves in their natural environment. One of the major findings of the latter work was that dogs do NOT want to be leader of the pack. They are far too sensible to want the job, why would they if they are well feed, have shelter and feel safe? They only step up for that roll if they sense a weakness in the existing leader. I do believe that that does cross over in to canine behavior and is a good indication of where to look when dealing with problem dogs.[/p][/quote]I take in all you say, and as I have told you before I have briefly studied ethology although not to your degree of expertise. My observations are that dogs do follow the same hierarchy patterns of wolves. It’s just that in domestic situations almost all are brought up from birth in circumstances where the human ‘master’ is imprinted as ‘leader of the pack’. However, the wolf instincts are still fully intact. Two examples: (a) the dingo – a domesticated breed gone feral and (b) the numerous examples in several Mediterranean and Asian cities of feral packs of mixed breeds of dogs. In both these examples the natural wolf hierarchy returns – in the case of (b) extremely rapidly for new ‘recruits’. Dogs have only very slightly modified wolf instincts (some breeds more than others I grant you). However, they are all potentially dangerous – thus my initial comment. freefinker
  • Score: 0

1:56pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Hdg end mo says...

The owner should be put down for wearing those specs
The owner should be put down for wearing those specs Hdg end mo
  • Score: 0

2:37pm Sun 18 Nov 12

8089 says...

The Wickham Man wrote:
8089 wrote:
**** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!?
Yes it's the owners fault for failing to train the dog, but what consolation is that for a child who has just been mauled? If the dog has gone out of control once it will happen again, so what are the rest of the population supposed to do in the meantime? duh.
Let's just put all humans down and be done with it, then. DUH!
[quote][p][bold]The Wickham Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]8089[/bold] wrote: **** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!?[/p][/quote]Yes it's the owners fault for failing to train the dog, but what consolation is that for a child who has just been mauled? If the dog has gone out of control once it will happen again, so what are the rest of the population supposed to do in the meantime? duh.[/p][/quote]Let's just put all humans down and be done with it, then. DUH! 8089
  • Score: 0

2:38pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Frank28 says...

The reintroduction of Dog Licences might deter stupid people from owning a dog, which they cannot properly control or care for. You must always consider what the particular type of breed was bred for, before acquiring such an animal. Clearly this owner cannot keep her dog under proper control. She is liable for any damage her dog does.
The reintroduction of Dog Licences might deter stupid people from owning a dog, which they cannot properly control or care for. You must always consider what the particular type of breed was bred for, before acquiring such an animal. Clearly this owner cannot keep her dog under proper control. She is liable for any damage her dog does. Frank28
  • Score: 0

2:53pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Stillness says...

freefinker wrote:
Stillness wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Stillness wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be.
By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again...............




..
.. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis.

Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop.

I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt.

However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell
If you fancy a day trawling some animal behavior sites you will find plenty of very well respected reports from animal behaviorists (not dog trainers) that dogs are so far removed from wolves that they should not be compared. A large part of the reason that older studies by ethologists related the two so closely was that they were studying captive wolves and not wolves in their natural environment. One of the major findings of the latter work was that dogs do NOT want to be leader of the pack. They are far too sensible to want the job, why would they if they are well feed, have shelter and feel safe? They only step up for that roll if they sense a weakness in the existing leader. I do believe that that does cross over in to canine behavior and is a good indication of where to look when dealing with problem dogs.
I take in all you say, and as I have told you before I have briefly studied ethology although not to your degree of expertise.

My observations are that dogs do follow the same hierarchy patterns of wolves. It’s just that in domestic situations almost all are brought up from birth in circumstances where the human ‘master’ is imprinted as ‘leader of the pack’.

However, the wolf instincts are still fully intact. Two examples: (a) the dingo – a domesticated breed gone feral and (b) the numerous examples in several Mediterranean and Asian cities of feral packs of mixed breeds of dogs. In both these examples the natural wolf hierarchy returns – in the case of (b) extremely rapidly for new ‘recruits’.

Dogs have only very slightly modified wolf instincts (some breeds more than others I grant you). However, they are all potentially dangerous – thus my initial comment.
But domesticated dogs are not living in the wild, they do not need to kill or scavenge for food, they do not need to find shelter, they do not need to find water, they do not need to compete for food. If the provider is lacking any of the dogs needs then it will look to do a better job of providing. Simples, like a lot of the owners. For what it's worth most "dog attacks" are caused by fear, normally due to poor socialization to as many stimuli as possible during the first year of the dogs life. Particularly important being the first few months, just when the vet will be telling the owners not to take the dog out. Still at least that way they can look forward to getting the crazy fees that they charge from the owners insurers when they stitch them back together letter in life. Cynical? Me? Never.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stillness[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stillness[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.[/p][/quote]You plumb. Your wonderful Homo's make more unconscious decisions than anything else on the planet. If they only made conscious decisions crime would be nonexistent. Conscious decisions require the person to think of the consequences of their actions, and then be conscious enough to make a considered decision. Too many people are not conscious enough to even know how to be. By the way, dogs are not wolves. That is like saying that Homo Sapiens are Neanderthals. Then again............... ..[/p][/quote].. er, I don't think Homo sapiens were selectively bred from Homo neanderthalensis. Dogs, however, most definitely WERE selectively bred from, mainly, Canis lupus - also a few other Canis species. Dogs ARE wolves, full stop. I think you may well find most criminals DO make a conscious decision to adopt that life style. To suggest otherwise is a quite ludicrous position to adopt. However, I will agree with some of your sentiment about our own species. “Most people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.” - Bertrand Russell[/p][/quote]If you fancy a day trawling some animal behavior sites you will find plenty of very well respected reports from animal behaviorists (not dog trainers) that dogs are so far removed from wolves that they should not be compared. A large part of the reason that older studies by ethologists related the two so closely was that they were studying captive wolves and not wolves in their natural environment. One of the major findings of the latter work was that dogs do NOT want to be leader of the pack. They are far too sensible to want the job, why would they if they are well feed, have shelter and feel safe? They only step up for that roll if they sense a weakness in the existing leader. I do believe that that does cross over in to canine behavior and is a good indication of where to look when dealing with problem dogs.[/p][/quote]I take in all you say, and as I have told you before I have briefly studied ethology although not to your degree of expertise. My observations are that dogs do follow the same hierarchy patterns of wolves. It’s just that in domestic situations almost all are brought up from birth in circumstances where the human ‘master’ is imprinted as ‘leader of the pack’. However, the wolf instincts are still fully intact. Two examples: (a) the dingo – a domesticated breed gone feral and (b) the numerous examples in several Mediterranean and Asian cities of feral packs of mixed breeds of dogs. In both these examples the natural wolf hierarchy returns – in the case of (b) extremely rapidly for new ‘recruits’. Dogs have only very slightly modified wolf instincts (some breeds more than others I grant you). However, they are all potentially dangerous – thus my initial comment.[/p][/quote]But domesticated dogs are not living in the wild, they do not need to kill or scavenge for food, they do not need to find shelter, they do not need to find water, they do not need to compete for food. If the provider is lacking any of the dogs needs then it will look to do a better job of providing. Simples, like a lot of the owners. For what it's worth most "dog attacks" are caused by fear, normally due to poor socialization to as many stimuli as possible during the first year of the dogs life. Particularly important being the first few months, just when the vet will be telling the owners not to take the dog out. Still at least that way they can look forward to getting the crazy fees that they charge from the owners insurers when they stitch them back together letter in life. Cynical? Me? Never. Stillness
  • Score: 0

7:25pm Sun 18 Nov 12

sass says...

If a dog invaded my home and started biting, it would not get out alive!
If a dog invaded my home and started biting, it would not get out alive! sass
  • Score: 0

7:36pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Stillness says...

sass wrote:
If a dog invaded my home and started biting, it would not get out alive!
What would you do? Bore it to death? If you are ever unfortunate enough to see even a medium sized dog fighting for it's life you may understand how stupid your comment is.
[quote][p][bold]sass[/bold] wrote: If a dog invaded my home and started biting, it would not get out alive![/p][/quote]What would you do? Bore it to death? If you are ever unfortunate enough to see even a medium sized dog fighting for it's life you may understand how stupid your comment is. Stillness
  • Score: 0

9:37pm Sun 18 Nov 12

noodlesnewman says...

freefinker wrote:
Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
what about netanyahu ??? think he s rabid !
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.[/p][/quote]what about netanyahu ??? think he s rabid ! noodlesnewman
  • Score: 0

10:04pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Stillness says...

noodlesnewman wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Plum Pudding wrote:
freefinker wrote:
ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places.

End of problem.
By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....
.. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not.

Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in.

Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.
what about netanyahu ??? think he s rabid !
Or Rabbid.
[quote][p][bold]noodlesnewman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plum Pudding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: ALL dogs should ALWAYS be muzzled in ALL public places. End of problem.[/p][/quote]By the same logic, everyone should always be muzzled, wear handcuffs and leg irons in public places at all times. End of street robbery, drunkeness, begging, shoplifting, riding on the pavement, driving without due care and attention and stepping on cracks in the pavement. My word, what a crime buster you are... Perhaps you should have put yourself forward as a PCC! By the way, that is called irony....[/p][/quote].. no, that's not the same logic, is it? Irony or not. Homo sapiens have managed to mainly break free of the shackles of 'nature raw in tooth' and are able to make conscious decisions of how they react to each other in whatever kind of society they live in. Wolves (i.e. dogs) have not achieved such sophistication and will always present a danger of physical attack to us.[/p][/quote]what about netanyahu ??? think he s rabid ![/p][/quote]Or Rabbid. Stillness
  • Score: 0

8:11am Mon 19 Nov 12

The Wickham Man says...

8089 wrote:
The Wickham Man wrote:
8089 wrote:
**** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!?
Yes it's the owners fault for failing to train the dog, but what consolation is that for a child who has just been mauled? If the dog has gone out of control once it will happen again, so what are the rest of the population supposed to do in the meantime? duh.
Let's just put all humans down and be done with it, then. DUH!
Well it wasn't hard to get to reveal yourself as some kind of mad people hating dog lady was it. You should try harder to keep it under wraps though otherwise nobody will listen to you.
[quote][p][bold]8089[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Wickham Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]8089[/bold] wrote: **** Pete knows best......So, it's not the dog's fault, it's the breed?? 'Hang 'em high' eh!?[/p][/quote]Yes it's the owners fault for failing to train the dog, but what consolation is that for a child who has just been mauled? If the dog has gone out of control once it will happen again, so what are the rest of the population supposed to do in the meantime? duh.[/p][/quote]Let's just put all humans down and be done with it, then. DUH![/p][/quote]Well it wasn't hard to get to reveal yourself as some kind of mad people hating dog lady was it. You should try harder to keep it under wraps though otherwise nobody will listen to you. The Wickham Man
  • Score: 0

9:17am Mon 19 Nov 12

Frankie33 says...

As an
As an Frankie33
  • Score: 0

9:37am Mon 19 Nov 12

Frankie33 says...

As an owner of two large breed dogs I feel the comments made are very unjust, the dog or breed should not be punished for bad ownership. Both my dogs have been socialised with other dogs and people since pups! They also have a routine which I think is crucial to them. We walk every morning and every evening sometimes more if I have a day off of work. So each time they see other dogs, cats, squirrels or people they are just everyday things and not an issue! To say all dogs should be muzzled in public is rubbish you'd like to think that any responsible PERSON would muzzle if they thought their dog posed any threat
As an owner of two large breed dogs I feel the comments made are very unjust, the dog or breed should not be punished for bad ownership. Both my dogs have been socialised with other dogs and people since pups! They also have a routine which I think is crucial to them. We walk every morning and every evening sometimes more if I have a day off of work. So each time they see other dogs, cats, squirrels or people they are just everyday things and not an issue! To say all dogs should be muzzled in public is rubbish you'd like to think that any responsible PERSON would muzzle if they thought their dog posed any threat Frankie33
  • Score: 0

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