Tough new tests mean thousands of claimants told to find work

Daily Echo: Fareham MP and employment minister Mark Hoban Fareham MP and employment minister Mark Hoban

MORE than 8,500 people face being stripped of their disability benefits because of tough new tests.

The controversial automated assessment is designed to weed out bogus claimants – but critics say it is unreliable and an “appalling” way to treat disabled people.

Latest figures show that across the south, 5,350 tests have so far judged 1,500 people to be “fit to work” without any support.

There are about 31,000 people claiming incapacity benefit or its replacement, employment support allowance, the across Hampshire and Southampton council area.

And the initial results, published by Fareham MP and Employment Minister Mark Hoban, suggest at least 8,600 of these people will be told to find work once the full testing process has been completed.

The Department for Work and Pensions also said that well over a third of claimants – as high as 46 per cent in the New Forest – are being judged to be capable of working with support, while only between 31 to 36 per cent should continue to receive the payment with no conditions.

Southampton Itchen MP John Denham said: “The truth is, that nearly half of the people told they are fit for work appeal against the decision and end up winning their appeal.

“We have always known there are people able to work – the problem we are dealing with all the time is that there are people who are not fit for work, but who are told that they are.

“It’s appalling that people are being put through it.”

The Work Capability Assessments, carried out by French company Atos, were introduced by Labour in 2008 as an attempt to check whether people applying for disability benefits were in fact capable of work.

The Coalition Government then expanded them to existing claimants, saying too many people had been “condemned to a life on benefits”.

But the tests have been controversial, with disability charities calling for them to be suspended.

They have yielded some surprising results and critics said they failed to identify mental health conditions.

There has also been a high success rate in appeals against the test results, with about 40 per cent of rulings being overturned.

Ministers have now published figures showing the results of tests across Bristol between October 2010 and February 2012.

Mr Hoban said: “The old incapacity benefit system condemned too many people to a life on benefits without hope of ever going back to work. This was simply wrong.

"By reassessing everyone for ESA we can help thousands of people move from benefits and back into work if they are capable while giving unconditional support to those who need it.”

Comments (50)

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7:39am Mon 19 Nov 12

Lockssmart says...

Lets just hope that you, or any of your family ever need state help.
Lets just hope that you, or any of your family ever need state help. Lockssmart

7:40am Mon 19 Nov 12

ju_ju68 says...

I have first hand experience of these tests. I have renal failure, and have had for the last 37 years, I have many medical problems, that has meant it has been very difficult for me to work. I have been assessed as able to work with support( I am appealing against this) and I have seen no sign of any support so far.This means that next Oct my benefit will stop, and unless i am employed( not self employed) for 2 years I will never get my benefit back, no matter how ill I get. And this is because my husband works more than 24 hours a week ( regardless of how much he earns in these hours) So for the long term sick there is not really any support, or certainly not in my case. Can I just say tho, this assessment, has been far better organised, and less stressful, than one I had done under the Labour government a few years ago. Then they just lied on all paperwork in order to find me fit for work. There are still lots of flaws in this system, the form you are asked to fill in, initially, really does not give Atos any information on your medical condition at all, and if you just fill it in without pages and pages of extra information, you will be found fit to work straight away, leading to the huge amount of appeals.
I have first hand experience of these tests. I have renal failure, and have had for the last 37 years, I have many medical problems, that has meant it has been very difficult for me to work. I have been assessed as able to work with support( I am appealing against this) and I have seen no sign of any support so far.This means that next Oct my benefit will stop, and unless i am employed( not self employed) for 2 years I will never get my benefit back, no matter how ill I get. And this is because my husband works more than 24 hours a week ( regardless of how much he earns in these hours) So for the long term sick there is not really any support, or certainly not in my case. Can I just say tho, this assessment, has been far better organised, and less stressful, than one I had done under the Labour government a few years ago. Then they just lied on all paperwork in order to find me fit for work. There are still lots of flaws in this system, the form you are asked to fill in, initially, really does not give Atos any information on your medical condition at all, and if you just fill it in without pages and pages of extra information, you will be found fit to work straight away, leading to the huge amount of appeals. ju_ju68

7:45am Mon 19 Nov 12

thankfully not a PO postcode says...

anyone who has a genuine claim should understand the reasons behind it and have nothing to worry about the thousands of lazy arse cheats will finally have to at least pretend to look for jobs on jsa so will still get benefits. so not really any worry for those just means they gotta get out of bed every two weeks to sign on !! perhaps if we didn't make it so easy for people on benefits ........ and i am excluding any genuine disability claims and those that do actually try to find work and will do anything rather than stay on benefits !
anyone who has a genuine claim should understand the reasons behind it and have nothing to worry about the thousands of lazy arse cheats will finally have to at least pretend to look for jobs on jsa so will still get benefits. so not really any worry for those just means they gotta get out of bed every two weeks to sign on !! perhaps if we didn't make it so easy for people on benefits ........ and i am excluding any genuine disability claims and those that do actually try to find work and will do anything rather than stay on benefits ! thankfully not a PO postcode

7:56am Mon 19 Nov 12

danhyr30 says...

does this include the 1000's of drug addicts on disability benefits.....
does this include the 1000's of drug addicts on disability benefits..... danhyr30

8:22am Mon 19 Nov 12

bigfella777 says...

danhyr30 wrote:
does this include the 1000's of drug addicts on disability benefits.....
Good point.
Like other people have said if you really cannot work then you have nothing to fear from this.
It's funny when you watch Jeremy Kyle that a lot of the people who come on the show always have a walking stick that they dont really use, just in case the DSS are watching in, these are the people this should target.
How sad do you have to be to pretend to be disabled, where is the self pride in that ?
[quote][p][bold]danhyr30[/bold] wrote: does this include the 1000's of drug addicts on disability benefits.....[/p][/quote]Good point. Like other people have said if you really cannot work then you have nothing to fear from this. It's funny when you watch Jeremy Kyle that a lot of the people who come on the show always have a walking stick that they dont really use, just in case the DSS are watching in, these are the people this should target. How sad do you have to be to pretend to be disabled, where is the self pride in that ? bigfella777

8:50am Mon 19 Nov 12

userds5050 says...

Yawn. More lazy commentary on the Echo boards.
Yawn. More lazy commentary on the Echo boards. userds5050

9:09am Mon 19 Nov 12

andyfidler1966 says...

Meanwhile, over on the Jobseekers Allowance side of thre debate, Maximus, a Work Programme contractor, are pushing people into such 'sustainable' employment as Ebay trading, and handmade giftcard manufacture. I predict tears before the election...
Meanwhile, over on the Jobseekers Allowance side of thre debate, Maximus, a Work Programme contractor, are pushing people into such 'sustainable' employment as Ebay trading, and handmade giftcard manufacture. I predict tears before the election... andyfidler1966

9:12am Mon 19 Nov 12

andyfidler1966 says...

userds5050 wrote:
Yawn. More lazy commentary on the Echo boards.
Yep, its fair to say that the Jeremy Kyle show doesn't constitute rigorous research...
[quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: Yawn. More lazy commentary on the Echo boards.[/p][/quote]Yep, its fair to say that the Jeremy Kyle show doesn't constitute rigorous research... andyfidler1966

9:22am Mon 19 Nov 12

AdamSFC says...

It makes me laugh when morons on here say things like "if you are genuine you have nothing to fear". What evidence are you basing this on?? Have you taken the test? Did you invent the test? Of course not, you are just the usual reactionary morons spewing their ill-informed garbage. The evidence seems to point quite strongly to the fact that you may have something to fear if you are 'genuine'. And what exactly would you class as 'genuine' in your evidently extensive wisdom. I would imagine your test would be something like if they've go 4 limbs they can work.
It makes me laugh when morons on here say things like "if you are genuine you have nothing to fear". What evidence are you basing this on?? Have you taken the test? Did you invent the test? Of course not, you are just the usual reactionary morons spewing their ill-informed garbage. The evidence seems to point quite strongly to the fact that you may have something to fear if you are 'genuine'. And what exactly would you class as 'genuine' in your evidently extensive wisdom. I would imagine your test would be something like if they've go 4 limbs they can work. AdamSFC

9:26am Mon 19 Nov 12

huckit P says...

And while we continue to have apologists working in any position of authority we will never sort out the serious anomalies within the benefits system.
Only yesterday, when I made a discreet comment to the landlady of a pub we visited for Sunday lunch that one of her young staff needed to improve his personal hygiene another member of our party then launched a tirade into why he had very bad BO. Excuses ranged from health problems, lack of training, unusual smell from soap, inexperience etc. When I suggested it could probably be cured with a good shower and some clean clothes it was not accepted as a solution. (All this was done out of earshot of the offending employee.) There are many genuine claimants on benefits but why must we always go to the default position of the government proving they are fit enough to work instead of the claimants proving they are unfit. Let's stop finding excuses for laziness and irresponsibility and instead only provide for truly genuine cases.
And while we continue to have apologists working in any position of authority we will never sort out the serious anomalies within the benefits system. Only yesterday, when I made a discreet comment to the landlady of a pub we visited for Sunday lunch that one of her young staff needed to improve his personal hygiene another member of our party then launched a tirade into why he had very bad BO. Excuses ranged from health problems, lack of training, unusual smell from soap, inexperience etc. When I suggested it could probably be cured with a good shower and some clean clothes it was not accepted as a solution. (All this was done out of earshot of the offending employee.) There are many genuine claimants on benefits but why must we always go to the default position of the government proving they are fit enough to work instead of the claimants proving they are unfit. Let's stop finding excuses for laziness and irresponsibility and instead only provide for truly genuine cases. huckit P

9:26am Mon 19 Nov 12

arthur dalyrimple says...

they have to keep the banks limping along until final collapse ,they care not its from the poorest and most vulnerable ,what next ?
they have to keep the banks limping along until final collapse ,they care not its from the poorest and most vulnerable ,what next ? arthur dalyrimple

9:35am Mon 19 Nov 12

Linesman says...

Who carrys out the assessments?

Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work?

This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares.

Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.
Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY. Linesman

9:37am Mon 19 Nov 12

userds5050 says...

huckit P wrote:
And while we continue to have apologists working in any position of authority we will never sort out the serious anomalies within the benefits system.
Only yesterday, when I made a discreet comment to the landlady of a pub we visited for Sunday lunch that one of her young staff needed to improve his personal hygiene another member of our party then launched a tirade into why he had very bad BO. Excuses ranged from health problems, lack of training, unusual smell from soap, inexperience etc. When I suggested it could probably be cured with a good shower and some clean clothes it was not accepted as a solution. (All this was done out of earshot of the offending employee.) There are many genuine claimants on benefits but why must we always go to the default position of the government proving they are fit enough to work instead of the claimants proving they are unfit. Let's stop finding excuses for laziness and irresponsibility and instead only provide for truly genuine cases.
Wow, it must be a barrel of laughs having dinner with your group of friends.
[quote][p][bold]huckit P[/bold] wrote: And while we continue to have apologists working in any position of authority we will never sort out the serious anomalies within the benefits system. Only yesterday, when I made a discreet comment to the landlady of a pub we visited for Sunday lunch that one of her young staff needed to improve his personal hygiene another member of our party then launched a tirade into why he had very bad BO. Excuses ranged from health problems, lack of training, unusual smell from soap, inexperience etc. When I suggested it could probably be cured with a good shower and some clean clothes it was not accepted as a solution. (All this was done out of earshot of the offending employee.) There are many genuine claimants on benefits but why must we always go to the default position of the government proving they are fit enough to work instead of the claimants proving they are unfit. Let's stop finding excuses for laziness and irresponsibility and instead only provide for truly genuine cases.[/p][/quote]Wow, it must be a barrel of laughs having dinner with your group of friends. userds5050

9:45am Mon 19 Nov 12

Ian Dowland says...

Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants. Ian Dowland

10:04am Mon 19 Nov 12

ohec says...

It is basically a two stage test and as long as you always have the appeals procedure i can't see a problem, we all know many claimants are able to work or at least claim less and we all want it to stop but as soon as they do something about it everybody starts complaining. The welfare bill has to be reduced and i think this is just the first phase with much tighter controls coming, alcoholics and drug addicts should be given one de-tox program and benefit stopped, everybody claiming benefits should be reassessed every two years with only the very worst cases getting a benefit passport for life, we also need to **** the degree of disability and make it much more difficult to obtain motability cars and also reduce the amounts paid out, there should also be a limited choice of cars and if you don't want one of those you buy your own, the whole motability thing has got out of control and it needs a complete overhaul.
It is basically a two stage test and as long as you always have the appeals procedure i can't see a problem, we all know many claimants are able to work or at least claim less and we all want it to stop but as soon as they do something about it everybody starts complaining. The welfare bill has to be reduced and i think this is just the first phase with much tighter controls coming, alcoholics and drug addicts should be given one de-tox program and benefit stopped, everybody claiming benefits should be reassessed every two years with only the very worst cases getting a benefit passport for life, we also need to **** the degree of disability and make it much more difficult to obtain motability cars and also reduce the amounts paid out, there should also be a limited choice of cars and if you don't want one of those you buy your own, the whole motability thing has got out of control and it needs a complete overhaul. ohec

10:13am Mon 19 Nov 12

tootle says...

Automated?. Genuine disabled people would have little to worry about if the assessment was real and not on computer.My son is disabled, he will never be able to work because his disabilities make him unemployable, face to face his disabilities quickly become obvious but on a computer he will give a literal truthful answer without any buts ....... and it's the BUTS that count in his case.
Automated?. Genuine disabled people would have little to worry about if the assessment was real and not on computer.My son is disabled, he will never be able to work because his disabilities make him unemployable, face to face his disabilities quickly become obvious but on a computer he will give a literal truthful answer without any buts ....... and it's the BUTS that count in his case. tootle

10:16am Mon 19 Nov 12

userds5050 says...

Ian Dowland wrote:
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.
[quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner. userds5050

10:24am Mon 19 Nov 12

andyfidler1966 says...

ohec wrote:
It is basically a two stage test and as long as you always have the appeals procedure i can't see a problem, we all know many claimants are able to work or at least claim less and we all want it to stop but as soon as they do something about it everybody starts complaining. The welfare bill has to be reduced and i think this is just the first phase with much tighter controls coming, alcoholics and drug addicts should be given one de-tox program and benefit stopped, everybody claiming benefits should be reassessed every two years with only the very worst cases getting a benefit passport for life, we also need to **** the degree of disability and make it much more difficult to obtain motability cars and also reduce the amounts paid out, there should also be a limited choice of cars and if you don't want one of those you buy your own, the whole motability thing has got out of control and it needs a complete overhaul.
'We all know people who can find work or at least claim less...' (Sorry if that's not exactly right but its a bugger to do anything at ll on a tablet)

Two things...if there were the millions of jobs out there for people to go to wouldn't we hear about it in the press?
And 'claiming less' suggests that this is solely about taking  money from the poor.
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: It is basically a two stage test and as long as you always have the appeals procedure i can't see a problem, we all know many claimants are able to work or at least claim less and we all want it to stop but as soon as they do something about it everybody starts complaining. The welfare bill has to be reduced and i think this is just the first phase with much tighter controls coming, alcoholics and drug addicts should be given one de-tox program and benefit stopped, everybody claiming benefits should be reassessed every two years with only the very worst cases getting a benefit passport for life, we also need to **** the degree of disability and make it much more difficult to obtain motability cars and also reduce the amounts paid out, there should also be a limited choice of cars and if you don't want one of those you buy your own, the whole motability thing has got out of control and it needs a complete overhaul.[/p][/quote]'We all know people who can find work or at least claim less...' (Sorry if that's not exactly right but its a bugger to do anything at ll on a tablet) Two things...if there were the millions of jobs out there for people to go to wouldn't we hear about it in the press? And 'claiming less' suggests that this is solely about taking  money from the poor. andyfidler1966

10:38am Mon 19 Nov 12

bazzeroz says...

And that scum, blood letting, vile piece of s.hite Abu Qatada is going to sue us, you, me the tax payer for £10million. There is no justice in this country. I wonder if he claims disability allowance! Smug bar steward. One SAS bullet should do the trick and then deport the rest of his blood sucking 'family'!
And that scum, blood letting, vile piece of s.hite Abu Qatada is going to sue us, you, me the tax payer for £10million. There is no justice in this country. I wonder if he claims disability allowance! Smug bar steward. One SAS bullet should do the trick and then deport the rest of his blood sucking 'family'! bazzeroz

10:43am Mon 19 Nov 12

Inform Al says...

I live in sheltered accommodation and have a near neighbour who cannot walk unaided, and only feet with crutches so is tied to a wheelchair indoors and a mobility scooter to get around. He is now going blind but was asasessed as fit for work. There is definitely something wrong with what is going on. I am aware that there are some able bodied people abusing the system, but do not think it right for society to abuse those who need our help.
I live in sheltered accommodation and have a near neighbour who cannot walk unaided, and only feet with crutches so is tied to a wheelchair indoors and a mobility scooter to get around. He is now going blind but was asasessed as fit for work. There is definitely something wrong with what is going on. I am aware that there are some able bodied people abusing the system, but do not think it right for society to abuse those who need our help. Inform Al

10:46am Mon 19 Nov 12

tootle says...

Ian Dowland wrote:
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
To get a blue badge my son needs to lie on the computer form to get a personal assessment as on the computer he doesn't qualify. You see there's no box on the form for the person who can be walking normally and mid stride be unable to continue. The form says "permanent" ref inability to walk, his isn't although his conditions are, so he refuses to apply because he considers he would be lying, even though his local council peeps have told him to. ARGH!!!! So do not judge before you know the facts please
[quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]To get a blue badge my son needs to lie on the computer form to get a personal assessment as on the computer he doesn't qualify. You see there's no box on the form for the person who can be walking normally and mid stride be unable to continue. The form says "permanent" ref inability to walk, his isn't although his conditions are, so he refuses to apply because he considers he would be lying, even though his local council peeps have told him to. ARGH!!!! So do not judge before you know the facts please tootle

10:59am Mon 19 Nov 12

redsnapper says...

i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops...
i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops... redsnapper

11:00am Mon 19 Nov 12

userds5050 says...

That's what these people are good at, making judgements without the facts. The same people who watched every second of the paralympics and thought how uplifting it was. The genuine claiments have nothing to fear. Your wheelchair bound, blind, bowlegged, hairlipped, hunchbacked friend is obviously not genuine. I hope some of the commentators on here have a dream that they're him, and I hope they wake up screaming...
That's what these people are good at, making judgements without the facts. The same people who watched every second of the paralympics and thought how uplifting it was. The genuine claiments have nothing to fear. Your wheelchair bound, blind, bowlegged, hairlipped, hunchbacked friend is obviously not genuine. I hope some of the commentators on here have a dream that they're him, and I hope they wake up screaming... userds5050

11:09am Mon 19 Nov 12

st1halo says...

userds5050 wrote:
Ian Dowland wrote:
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.
Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not
[quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.[/p][/quote]Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not st1halo

11:25am Mon 19 Nov 12

Dr Martin says...

userds5050 wrote:
Ian Dowland wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.
I say fair play to you Ian!, wish there was more challenging done by the rest of us.
[quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.[/p][/quote]I say fair play to you Ian!, wish there was more challenging done by the rest of us. Dr Martin

11:26am Mon 19 Nov 12

Dasal says...

st1halo wrote:
userds5050 wrote:
Ian Dowland wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.
Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not
Well said .

If you can't debate without resorting to "insults" you shouldn't be on line.
[quote][p][bold]st1halo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.[/p][/quote]Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not[/p][/quote]Well said . If you can't debate without resorting to "insults" you shouldn't be on line. Dasal

11:27am Mon 19 Nov 12

userds5050 says...

st1halo wrote:
userds5050 wrote:
Ian Dowland wrote:
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.
Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not
I'm sorry but it is necessary. He's not just expressing a point of view I disagree with. He's "confronting" people he believes are not genuinly disabled without a shred of proof. It's vigilantism. It's despicable... and besides I'm too busy reading Machiavelli's The Prince to go away and learn any manners.
[quote][p][bold]st1halo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.[/p][/quote]Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not[/p][/quote]I'm sorry but it is necessary. He's not just expressing a point of view I disagree with. He's "confronting" people he believes are not genuinly disabled without a shred of proof. It's vigilantism. It's despicable... and besides I'm too busy reading Machiavelli's The Prince to go away and learn any manners. userds5050

11:50am Mon 19 Nov 12

sotonboy84 says...

Linesman wrote:
Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.
I think most people know that GP's will pretty much say what they want you to once you've built a relationship with them, just like many will give you whatever drugs you ask for on prescription. I know people very close to me that do the same then start believing they're ill and that they're victims and "of course I'd rather not have this illness but the benefit helps a little". The same people that work full time, and do every other thing a 'fully abled' person does and their illness is nothing more than a name that gives them a bad back or knees now and again! These are people I'm close to but still think, and tell them it's wrong.
Some people just like to be victims and like to believe that they're so ill they can't possible work when in fact they're just bone idle and abusing this country's ridiculous benefits system. Of course there are some genuine people out there but those that are genuine and cannot do any type of work will receive the help they deserve.
It seems that you can claim to be disabled if you say you can't do one aspect of a job if it be walking, standing, lifting etc. then that's it, you can be signed off from doing any type of job. So if somebody has a bad back, why can't they do a job that requires them to sit?
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.[/p][/quote]I think most people know that GP's will pretty much say what they want you to once you've built a relationship with them, just like many will give you whatever drugs you ask for on prescription. I know people very close to me that do the same then start believing they're ill and that they're victims and "of course I'd rather not have this illness but the benefit helps a little". The same people that work full time, and do every other thing a 'fully abled' person does and their illness is nothing more than a name that gives them a bad back or knees now and again! These are people I'm close to but still think, and tell them it's wrong. Some people just like to be victims and like to believe that they're so ill they can't possible work when in fact they're just bone idle and abusing this country's ridiculous benefits system. Of course there are some genuine people out there but those that are genuine and cannot do any type of work will receive the help they deserve. It seems that you can claim to be disabled if you say you can't do one aspect of a job if it be walking, standing, lifting etc. then that's it, you can be signed off from doing any type of job. So if somebody has a bad back, why can't they do a job that requires them to sit? sotonboy84

12:13pm Mon 19 Nov 12

TwistedWitch says...

Might I respectfully suggest those of you saying 'if you are genuinely disabled there is nothing to fear' click on this link and then on the full report in either pdf or word format. You will then see that in fact you have a great deal to fear if you are disabled/chronically sick in the Great Britain of 2012.

http://wearespartacu
s.org.uk/wca-report/


The death count of people who have been found fit for work, but subsequently died has now risen to in excess of 11,000, and that ONLY takes account of those that go onto another benefit, eg. JSA. Those who are too ill to carry on fighting the system, but who might have a family that will help support them are not counted in this figure.

Whilst you are sitting there deciding the fate of someone you never met simply because you believe the rhetoric the Condems and Tory press have been pushing that the sick/disabled population of this once great nation are in fact all benefit cheating scum, think on this. The total figures for fraud in the sickness benefit system is less than half of one percent! A darn sight less than those at the top avoiding paying their tax bill. It has been estimated if all people who owed their tax paid up, it would wipe out the deficit in this country.

Also ponder on this. You may be calling your neighbour a cheating scumbag today eroneously and tomorrow it might be you, or someone dear to you in this dreadful position because you or they have been in a traffic accident, or suddenly developed a debilitating illness, cancer or similar. Then, and only then, can you say with any justification that the genuine claimant need not be scared, because trust me, if things continue in their current vein you will need to be very scared indeed.
Might I respectfully suggest those of you saying 'if you are genuinely disabled there is nothing to fear' click on this link and then on the full report in either pdf or word format. You will then see that in fact you have a great deal to fear if you are disabled/chronically sick in the Great Britain of 2012. http://wearespartacu s.org.uk/wca-report/ The death count of people who have been found fit for work, but subsequently died has now risen to in excess of 11,000, and that ONLY takes account of those that go onto another benefit, eg. JSA. Those who are too ill to carry on fighting the system, but who might have a family that will help support them are not counted in this figure. Whilst you are sitting there deciding the fate of someone you never met simply because you believe the rhetoric the Condems and Tory press have been pushing that the sick/disabled population of this once great nation are in fact all benefit cheating scum, think on this. The total figures for fraud in the sickness benefit system is less than half of one percent! A darn sight less than those at the top avoiding paying their tax bill. It has been estimated if all people who owed their tax paid up, it would wipe out the deficit in this country. Also ponder on this. You may be calling your neighbour a cheating scumbag today eroneously and tomorrow it might be you, or someone dear to you in this dreadful position because you or they have been in a traffic accident, or suddenly developed a debilitating illness, cancer or similar. Then, and only then, can you say with any justification that the genuine claimant need not be scared, because trust me, if things continue in their current vein you will need to be very scared indeed. TwistedWitch

12:15pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Chas O'Bursledon says...

I'm disabled. I stopped work after 39 years when I was no longer able. Inwouldmlike these politicians to do two simple things. 1. Walk a mile in my shoes. I wish I could! 2. Spend one month, stuck at home, disabled and living on benefits with a family.

They wouldn't last a week!! Damned knowitalls!!
I'm disabled. I stopped work after 39 years when I was no longer able. Inwouldmlike these politicians to do two simple things. 1. Walk a mile in my shoes. I wish I could! 2. Spend one month, stuck at home, disabled and living on benefits with a family. They wouldn't last a week!! Damned knowitalls!! Chas O'Bursledon

12:58pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Niel says...

redsnapper wrote:
i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops...
If you see something that looks wrong, report it, the number of abused blue badges withdrawn is low, because no-one reports the abuse.

Family members using it when the disabled person isn't present is all too common, the badge has a photo of the person it's issued to on the reverse (adults anyway), so a suitable official CAN check it on the spot, but the blue badge unit are supposed to investigate reports of abuse. Those from certain minorities seem immune from being checked, but if they are 'white british' report them!
[quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops...[/p][/quote]If you see something that looks wrong, report it, the number of abused blue badges withdrawn is low, because no-one reports the abuse. Family members using it when the disabled person isn't present is all too common, the badge has a photo of the person it's issued to on the reverse (adults anyway), so a suitable official CAN check it on the spot, but the blue badge unit are supposed to investigate reports of abuse. Those from certain minorities seem immune from being checked, but if they are 'white british' report them! Niel

12:59pm Mon 19 Nov 12

st1halo says...

userds5050 wrote:
st1halo wrote:
userds5050 wrote:
Ian Dowland wrote:
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.
Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not
I'm sorry but it is necessary. He's not just expressing a point of view I disagree with. He's "confronting" people he believes are not genuinly disabled without a shred of proof. It's vigilantism. It's despicable... and besides I'm too busy reading Machiavelli's The Prince to go away and learn any manners.
Suffice to say exactly what you have just posted. You think it's vigilantism and decpicable... that's fine.. but calling people scum is, I repeat, entirely unecessary.
Personally, I take Ian's comments to mean he is a genuine claimant and doesn't like the thought of people abusing the system (although I do not know this) . If that is the case it is logical for him to be concerned as it makes it much harder for himself when fraudulent claims are rife. As taxpayers we are perfectly entitled to ask even if we choose not to. IMO the entire system has been in need of overhaul for some time.I don't know if the government is going about it the right way but it is necessary to protect the public purse. Years ago I lived in a flat where the lady upstairs could be seen going out with her walking sticks struggling away, getting help with her shopping but when she was indoors I could hear her pacing up and down the flat quite normally. I'm all for a crackdown on fraudsters, I just hope it is carried out with sensitivity and clarity.
[quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]st1halo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.[/p][/quote]Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not[/p][/quote]I'm sorry but it is necessary. He's not just expressing a point of view I disagree with. He's "confronting" people he believes are not genuinly disabled without a shred of proof. It's vigilantism. It's despicable... and besides I'm too busy reading Machiavelli's The Prince to go away and learn any manners.[/p][/quote]Suffice to say exactly what you have just posted. You think it's vigilantism and decpicable... that's fine.. but calling people scum is, I repeat, entirely unecessary. Personally, I take Ian's comments to mean he is a genuine claimant and doesn't like the thought of people abusing the system (although I do not know this) . If that is the case it is logical for him to be concerned as it makes it much harder for himself when fraudulent claims are rife. As taxpayers we are perfectly entitled to ask even if we choose not to. IMO the entire system has been in need of overhaul for some time.I don't know if the government is going about it the right way but it is necessary to protect the public purse. Years ago I lived in a flat where the lady upstairs could be seen going out with her walking sticks struggling away, getting help with her shopping but when she was indoors I could hear her pacing up and down the flat quite normally. I'm all for a crackdown on fraudsters, I just hope it is carried out with sensitivity and clarity. st1halo

1:00pm Mon 19 Nov 12

southy says...

Linesman wrote:
Who carrys out the assessments?

Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work?

This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares.

Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.
ATOS employ ex-military who pass fit for duty, and are less qualified in than the civy GP's
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.[/p][/quote]ATOS employ ex-military who pass fit for duty, and are less qualified in than the civy GP's southy

1:23pm Mon 19 Nov 12

southy says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Linesman wrote:
Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.
I think most people know that GP's will pretty much say what they want you to once you've built a relationship with them, just like many will give you whatever drugs you ask for on prescription. I know people very close to me that do the same then start believing they're ill and that they're victims and "of course I'd rather not have this illness but the benefit helps a little". The same people that work full time, and do every other thing a 'fully abled' person does and their illness is nothing more than a name that gives them a bad back or knees now and again! These are people I'm close to but still think, and tell them it's wrong.
Some people just like to be victims and like to believe that they're so ill they can't possible work when in fact they're just bone idle and abusing this country's ridiculous benefits system. Of course there are some genuine people out there but those that are genuine and cannot do any type of work will receive the help they deserve.
It seems that you can claim to be disabled if you say you can't do one aspect of a job if it be walking, standing, lifting etc. then that's it, you can be signed off from doing any type of job. So if somebody has a bad back, why can't they do a job that requires them to sit?
People on DLA or ILA have got to pay for there perscriptions, people on JSA do not, if your on certain types of drugs like some pain killers, when you come to fill out the part about medical on a job application form and they see these certain drugs, the form is filed under B (in the bin).
Companys will not pay out the extra insurence to have these people working for them.
It will end up costing more in the end to have these people on the JSA than it would to have them on ILA or DLA.
All this is really about is to keep diverting attentions away from the real problems of the system, and that is how much the 1 to 3 % of the most wealthy people get away with mainly in there legal tax avoidence (avoidence is legal evasion)
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.[/p][/quote]I think most people know that GP's will pretty much say what they want you to once you've built a relationship with them, just like many will give you whatever drugs you ask for on prescription. I know people very close to me that do the same then start believing they're ill and that they're victims and "of course I'd rather not have this illness but the benefit helps a little". The same people that work full time, and do every other thing a 'fully abled' person does and their illness is nothing more than a name that gives them a bad back or knees now and again! These are people I'm close to but still think, and tell them it's wrong. Some people just like to be victims and like to believe that they're so ill they can't possible work when in fact they're just bone idle and abusing this country's ridiculous benefits system. Of course there are some genuine people out there but those that are genuine and cannot do any type of work will receive the help they deserve. It seems that you can claim to be disabled if you say you can't do one aspect of a job if it be walking, standing, lifting etc. then that's it, you can be signed off from doing any type of job. So if somebody has a bad back, why can't they do a job that requires them to sit?[/p][/quote]People on DLA or ILA have got to pay for there perscriptions, people on JSA do not, if your on certain types of drugs like some pain killers, when you come to fill out the part about medical on a job application form and they see these certain drugs, the form is filed under B (in the bin). Companys will not pay out the extra insurence to have these people working for them. It will end up costing more in the end to have these people on the JSA than it would to have them on ILA or DLA. All this is really about is to keep diverting attentions away from the real problems of the system, and that is how much the 1 to 3 % of the most wealthy people get away with mainly in there legal tax avoidence (avoidence is legal evasion) southy

1:33pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Dresnez says...

ju_ju68 wrote:
I have first hand experience of these tests. I have renal failure, and have had for the last 37 years, I have many medical problems, that has meant it has been very difficult for me to work. I have been assessed as able to work with support( I am appealing against this) and I have seen no sign of any support so far.This means that next Oct my benefit will stop, and unless i am employed( not self employed) for 2 years I will never get my benefit back, no matter how ill I get. And this is because my husband works more than 24 hours a week ( regardless of how much he earns in these hours) So for the long term sick there is not really any support, or certainly not in my case. Can I just say tho, this assessment, has been far better organised, and less stressful, than one I had done under the Labour government a few years ago. Then they just lied on all paperwork in order to find me fit for work. There are still lots of flaws in this system, the form you are asked to fill in, initially, really does not give Atos any information on your medical condition at all, and if you just fill it in without pages and pages of extra information, you will be found fit to work straight away, leading to the huge amount of appeals.
When I read this - capable of working with support - what for heaven's sake does that mean?

I would guess you need expensive help to travel to and from work and the employer must be very understanding if your sick record is much higher than the rest because your immune system is weak and you need dialysis. Your diet will be severely limited as your kidneys cannot process waste matter efficiently. You will feel tired, have headaches and feel sick and lack concentration.

Your Doctor should make the assessment and send in the forms. (look at the waste o f money paying ATOS). The waste of money in giving support to people to assist them to work. This should be available for those that want this.

People must realise that Stephen Hawking and the para Olympians are the exceptions and not the rule. Also people with renal failure will not look disabled.

Lets keep old people working as long as possible!

You would think that they had trouble filling posts and we had a severe shortage of workers with this kind of policy,

We have young people, many of whom are graduates who have been expensively educated on the dole!

Young people who need to build a career to provide for the families of the future.

We have lots of redundancies all over the country and this Barmy Government wants disabled and elderly people to continue working whilst the others desperately need work are on the dole.
[quote][p][bold]ju_ju68[/bold] wrote: I have first hand experience of these tests. I have renal failure, and have had for the last 37 years, I have many medical problems, that has meant it has been very difficult for me to work. I have been assessed as able to work with support( I am appealing against this) and I have seen no sign of any support so far.This means that next Oct my benefit will stop, and unless i am employed( not self employed) for 2 years I will never get my benefit back, no matter how ill I get. And this is because my husband works more than 24 hours a week ( regardless of how much he earns in these hours) So for the long term sick there is not really any support, or certainly not in my case. Can I just say tho, this assessment, has been far better organised, and less stressful, than one I had done under the Labour government a few years ago. Then they just lied on all paperwork in order to find me fit for work. There are still lots of flaws in this system, the form you are asked to fill in, initially, really does not give Atos any information on your medical condition at all, and if you just fill it in without pages and pages of extra information, you will be found fit to work straight away, leading to the huge amount of appeals.[/p][/quote]When I read this - capable of working with support - what for heaven's sake does that mean? I would guess you need expensive help to travel to and from work and the employer must be very understanding if your sick record is much higher than the rest because your immune system is weak and you need dialysis. Your diet will be severely limited as your kidneys cannot process waste matter efficiently. You will feel tired, have headaches and feel sick and lack concentration. Your Doctor should make the assessment and send in the forms. (look at the waste o f money paying ATOS). The waste of money in giving support to people to assist them to work. This should be available for those that want this. People must realise that Stephen Hawking and the para Olympians are the exceptions and not the rule. Also people with renal failure will not look disabled. Lets keep old people working as long as possible! You would think that they had trouble filling posts and we had a severe shortage of workers with this kind of policy, We have young people, many of whom are graduates who have been expensively educated on the dole! Young people who need to build a career to provide for the families of the future. We have lots of redundancies all over the country and this Barmy Government wants disabled and elderly people to continue working whilst the others desperately need work are on the dole. Dresnez

2:37pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Shoong says...

Linesman wrote:
Who carrys out the assessments?

Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work?

This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares.

Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.
Yep, you are correct, it is all about MONEY.

It's about making sure MONEY is not wasted on wasters so there is enough to give those who are genuinely entitled to MONEY.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.[/p][/quote]Yep, you are correct, it is all about MONEY. It's about making sure MONEY is not wasted on wasters so there is enough to give those who are genuinely entitled to MONEY. Shoong

2:47pm Mon 19 Nov 12

userds5050 says...

st1halo wrote:
userds5050 wrote:
st1halo wrote:
userds5050 wrote:
Ian Dowland wrote:
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.
Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not
I'm sorry but it is necessary. He's not just expressing a point of view I disagree with. He's "confronting" people he believes are not genuinly disabled without a shred of proof. It's vigilantism. It's despicable... and besides I'm too busy reading Machiavelli's The Prince to go away and learn any manners.
Suffice to say exactly what you have just posted. You think it's vigilantism and decpicable... that's fine.. but calling people scum is, I repeat, entirely unecessary.
Personally, I take Ian's comments to mean he is a genuine claimant and doesn't like the thought of people abusing the system (although I do not know this) . If that is the case it is logical for him to be concerned as it makes it much harder for himself when fraudulent claims are rife. As taxpayers we are perfectly entitled to ask even if we choose not to. IMO the entire system has been in need of overhaul for some time.I don't know if the government is going about it the right way but it is necessary to protect the public purse. Years ago I lived in a flat where the lady upstairs could be seen going out with her walking sticks struggling away, getting help with her shopping but when she was indoors I could hear her pacing up and down the flat quite normally. I'm all for a crackdown on fraudsters, I just hope it is carried out with sensitivity and clarity.
I'm not apologetic in the slightest. The curtain twitchers, ableists and right wing nutters will be met with belligerence. If you don't like it report me to the moderator.
[quote][p][bold]st1halo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]st1halo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]Wow, Do tell how you privy to this person's entire medical history? Why there is scum like you "challenging" people on benefits in the street, the Government will continue to clamp down on genuine claiments because it's seen as a vote winner.[/p][/quote]Calling people scum is not necessary is it? I suggest you go away and learn some manners and have some respect for other's points of view whether you agree with them or not[/p][/quote]I'm sorry but it is necessary. He's not just expressing a point of view I disagree with. He's "confronting" people he believes are not genuinly disabled without a shred of proof. It's vigilantism. It's despicable... and besides I'm too busy reading Machiavelli's The Prince to go away and learn any manners.[/p][/quote]Suffice to say exactly what you have just posted. You think it's vigilantism and decpicable... that's fine.. but calling people scum is, I repeat, entirely unecessary. Personally, I take Ian's comments to mean he is a genuine claimant and doesn't like the thought of people abusing the system (although I do not know this) . If that is the case it is logical for him to be concerned as it makes it much harder for himself when fraudulent claims are rife. As taxpayers we are perfectly entitled to ask even if we choose not to. IMO the entire system has been in need of overhaul for some time.I don't know if the government is going about it the right way but it is necessary to protect the public purse. Years ago I lived in a flat where the lady upstairs could be seen going out with her walking sticks struggling away, getting help with her shopping but when she was indoors I could hear her pacing up and down the flat quite normally. I'm all for a crackdown on fraudsters, I just hope it is carried out with sensitivity and clarity.[/p][/quote]I'm not apologetic in the slightest. The curtain twitchers, ableists and right wing nutters will be met with belligerence. If you don't like it report me to the moderator. userds5050

3:12pm Mon 19 Nov 12

beiroot says...

I know a bloke who uses the same bookies as me who drives a Motobility Car for which you have to be on Higher level Disability allowance to qualify.He manages to hold down TWO cash in hand jobs even using his Motobility car to deliver kebabs.Maybe he declares the income but somehow I doubt it.He looks a fit strapping lad but somehow he's persuaded the authorities that he has a Higher Level Disability.
I know a bloke who uses the same bookies as me who drives a Motobility Car for which you have to be on Higher level Disability allowance to qualify.He manages to hold down TWO cash in hand jobs even using his Motobility car to deliver kebabs.Maybe he declares the income but somehow I doubt it.He looks a fit strapping lad but somehow he's persuaded the authorities that he has a Higher Level Disability. beiroot

3:20pm Mon 19 Nov 12

ohec says...

Niel wrote:
redsnapper wrote:
i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops...
If you see something that looks wrong, report it, the number of abused blue badges withdrawn is low, because no-one reports the abuse.

Family members using it when the disabled person isn't present is all too common, the badge has a photo of the person it's issued to on the reverse (adults anyway), so a suitable official CAN check it on the spot, but the blue badge unit are supposed to investigate reports of abuse. Those from certain minorities seem immune from being checked, but if they are 'white british' report them!
I had a neighbour and his wife developed a hip problem so he learnt to drive and got a motability car, he is out in it everyday whilst she may go out once a week i know he was using the blue badge he even told me so but all that happened was he got suspended and he is still doing it. So you can understand why it is such a hot potato.
[quote][p][bold]Niel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops...[/p][/quote]If you see something that looks wrong, report it, the number of abused blue badges withdrawn is low, because no-one reports the abuse. Family members using it when the disabled person isn't present is all too common, the badge has a photo of the person it's issued to on the reverse (adults anyway), so a suitable official CAN check it on the spot, but the blue badge unit are supposed to investigate reports of abuse. Those from certain minorities seem immune from being checked, but if they are 'white british' report them![/p][/quote]I had a neighbour and his wife developed a hip problem so he learnt to drive and got a motability car, he is out in it everyday whilst she may go out once a week i know he was using the blue badge he even told me so but all that happened was he got suspended and he is still doing it. So you can understand why it is such a hot potato. ohec

3:24pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Dresnez says...

Linesman wrote:
Who carrys out the assessments?

Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work?

This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares.

Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.
Cost cutting exercise or redistribution of wealth to the great god the private sector.

Who are the beneficial owners of ATOS.

As you said Health professionals - hospitals and doctors are the only ones qualified to assess someone's health and ability to work.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: Who carrys out the assessments? Are they better qualified than the GPs who state that their patients are unfit for work? This is just another cost-cutting exercise, that hits those most in need of help, by a government that claims that it cares. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions show that all they care about is MONEY.[/p][/quote]Cost cutting exercise or redistribution of wealth to the great god the private sector. Who are the beneficial owners of ATOS. As you said Health professionals - hospitals and doctors are the only ones qualified to assess someone's health and ability to work. Dresnez

3:34pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Dresnez says...

userds5050 wrote:
huckit P wrote:
And while we continue to have apologists working in any position of authority we will never sort out the serious anomalies within the benefits system.
Only yesterday, when I made a discreet comment to the landlady of a pub we visited for Sunday lunch that one of her young staff needed to improve his personal hygiene another member of our party then launched a tirade into why he had very bad BO. Excuses ranged from health problems, lack of training, unusual smell from soap, inexperience etc. When I suggested it could probably be cured with a good shower and some clean clothes it was not accepted as a solution. (All this was done out of earshot of the offending employee.) There are many genuine claimants on benefits but why must we always go to the default position of the government proving they are fit enough to work instead of the claimants proving they are unfit. Let's stop finding excuses for laziness and irresponsibility and instead only provide for truly genuine cases.
Wow, it must be a barrel of laughs having dinner with your group of friends.
Or he had worked up a sweat moving a whole pile of beer barrels to the cellar earlier on.

Or he finished work at 1am and then had to clear the bar and tables ready for the morning and he didn't get dinner till he got home at 2:30 am and had to be up at 0800 to get to work for opening time and he over slept as they were busy the last 3 nights.

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things. I am sure that apart from a little nasal discomfort they didn't suffer any real harm.

I have no idea what it has to do with ATOS.

At least the chap is working and it will be for the minimum wage too.
[quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]huckit P[/bold] wrote: And while we continue to have apologists working in any position of authority we will never sort out the serious anomalies within the benefits system. Only yesterday, when I made a discreet comment to the landlady of a pub we visited for Sunday lunch that one of her young staff needed to improve his personal hygiene another member of our party then launched a tirade into why he had very bad BO. Excuses ranged from health problems, lack of training, unusual smell from soap, inexperience etc. When I suggested it could probably be cured with a good shower and some clean clothes it was not accepted as a solution. (All this was done out of earshot of the offending employee.) There are many genuine claimants on benefits but why must we always go to the default position of the government proving they are fit enough to work instead of the claimants proving they are unfit. Let's stop finding excuses for laziness and irresponsibility and instead only provide for truly genuine cases.[/p][/quote]Wow, it must be a barrel of laughs having dinner with your group of friends.[/p][/quote]Or he had worked up a sweat moving a whole pile of beer barrels to the cellar earlier on. Or he finished work at 1am and then had to clear the bar and tables ready for the morning and he didn't get dinner till he got home at 2:30 am and had to be up at 0800 to get to work for opening time and he over slept as they were busy the last 3 nights. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things. I am sure that apart from a little nasal discomfort they didn't suffer any real harm. I have no idea what it has to do with ATOS. At least the chap is working and it will be for the minimum wage too. Dresnez

3:36pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Chas O'Bursledon says...

Ian Dowland wrote:
Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.
I have multiple sclerosis. Some days I can and most days I can't. How dare you judge what you have not directly experienced! You are not medically qualified to make passing judgements.
[quote][p][bold]Ian Dowland[/bold] wrote: Genuine disabled people have nothing to worry about. It is about time that someone sorted out all the fraudulent claims for all benefits and the blue badges for car parking. I am sick & tired of seeing people that claim to be disabled but they can walk perfectly well around supermarkets and carry heavy bags of shopping back to their cars. I challenged one person some months ago and that person had a blue badge and was claiming benefits because she had carpal tunnel syndrome but she was able to carry 5 bags of shopping. Social Services and The DWP need to get a grip on all the people that are defrauding all of us tax payers and genuine claimants.[/p][/quote]I have multiple sclerosis. Some days I can and most days I can't. How dare you judge what you have not directly experienced! You are not medically qualified to make passing judgements. Chas O'Bursledon

3:43pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Dresnez says...

teamgreen wrote:
bazzeroz wrote:
And that scum, blood letting, vile piece of s.hite Abu Qatada is going to sue us, you, me the tax payer for £10million. There is no justice in this country. I wonder if he claims disability allowance! Smug bar steward. One SAS bullet should do the trick and then deport the rest of his blood sucking 'family'!
and the rest of the scum that follows him and his stupid beliefs
Not sure what this has to do with ATOS but why is Qatada suing us for £10 million? I must have missed this.

If Theresa May had got her act together in the first place he would be long gone. She not only needed Jordon to change its constitution to say Qatada wouldn't be tortured, but that evidence against him was not gained by torture.

She overlooked this part so the High Court here wasn't satisfied. Attention to detail is not her strong point. Contracts are not her strong points (G4S) despite having the access to the best brains in the country. Taking responsibility is not a strong point either.
[quote][p][bold]teamgreen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bazzeroz[/bold] wrote: And that scum, blood letting, vile piece of s.hite Abu Qatada is going to sue us, you, me the tax payer for £10million. There is no justice in this country. I wonder if he claims disability allowance! Smug bar steward. One SAS bullet should do the trick and then deport the rest of his blood sucking 'family'![/p][/quote]and the rest of the scum that follows him and his stupid beliefs[/p][/quote]Not sure what this has to do with ATOS but why is Qatada suing us for £10 million? I must have missed this. If Theresa May had got her act together in the first place he would be long gone. She not only needed Jordon to change its constitution to say Qatada wouldn't be tortured, but that evidence against him was not gained by torture. She overlooked this part so the High Court here wasn't satisfied. Attention to detail is not her strong point. Contracts are not her strong points (G4S) despite having the access to the best brains in the country. Taking responsibility is not a strong point either. Dresnez

3:52pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Dresnez says...

Niel wrote:
redsnapper wrote:
i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops...
If you see something that looks wrong, report it, the number of abused blue badges withdrawn is low, because no-one reports the abuse.

Family members using it when the disabled person isn't present is all too common, the badge has a photo of the person it's issued to on the reverse (adults anyway), so a suitable official CAN check it on the spot, but the blue badge unit are supposed to investigate reports of abuse. Those from certain minorities seem immune from being checked, but if they are 'white british' report them!
The driver may not be the disabled person, it might be his wife sitting next to him who can't walk far and cannot drive herself.

The driver may have renal failure, just had dialysis yesterday so today he can sprint but by tomorrow will start to feel extremely unwell till his next session. People try to go out when they feel at their best.

Just saying some things are not immediately evident.

I am far more upset about multi nationals tax avoidance and governments that have let it go on for years.
[quote][p][bold]Niel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: i ve lost count of the number of times I have seen blue disabled badge parking with the driver getting out and sprinting to the shops...[/p][/quote]If you see something that looks wrong, report it, the number of abused blue badges withdrawn is low, because no-one reports the abuse. Family members using it when the disabled person isn't present is all too common, the badge has a photo of the person it's issued to on the reverse (adults anyway), so a suitable official CAN check it on the spot, but the blue badge unit are supposed to investigate reports of abuse. Those from certain minorities seem immune from being checked, but if they are 'white british' report them![/p][/quote]The driver may not be the disabled person, it might be his wife sitting next to him who can't walk far and cannot drive herself. The driver may have renal failure, just had dialysis yesterday so today he can sprint but by tomorrow will start to feel extremely unwell till his next session. People try to go out when they feel at their best. Just saying some things are not immediately evident. I am far more upset about multi nationals tax avoidance and governments that have let it go on for years. Dresnez

4:50pm Mon 19 Nov 12

ohec says...

People are missing the point its not about victimising the disabled its about helping them by ensuring that only those that need the help get it and maybe get more in the future, a lot of comments make reference to the banks and big companies but they are a different issue and because they may or may not be abusing our systems doesn't mean its alright for the little guy to do the same, two wrongs do not make a right. Whether some people like it or not there is wholesale abuse of the welfare state and it has to stop otherwise the system will collapse altogether then where will we be. I am also aware there are not thousands of jobs out there but if moving an able person from one benefit to another saves money then it should be done, yes individually you might only be looking at a few quid but multiply that by a few thousand and it starts to add up,those with genuine health issues (not the bad back or the depressives) but those genuine ones should welcome anything that may help them.
People are missing the point its not about victimising the disabled its about helping them by ensuring that only those that need the help get it and maybe get more in the future, a lot of comments make reference to the banks and big companies but they are a different issue and because they may or may not be abusing our systems doesn't mean its alright for the little guy to do the same, two wrongs do not make a right. Whether some people like it or not there is wholesale abuse of the welfare state and it has to stop otherwise the system will collapse altogether then where will we be. I am also aware there are not thousands of jobs out there but if moving an able person from one benefit to another saves money then it should be done, yes individually you might only be looking at a few quid but multiply that by a few thousand and it starts to add up,those with genuine health issues (not the bad back or the depressives) but those genuine ones should welcome anything that may help them. ohec

4:58pm Mon 19 Nov 12

summercat says...

Thanks for the link, TwistedWitch. I downloaded and read the whole harrowing and depressing document. For those whose judgement may be set in stone, be mindful of the closing statement:
'The reader may wish to consider that sickness and disability
can affect anyone at any time.
Tomorrow it could be you going through this process.'
Thanks for the link, TwistedWitch. I downloaded and read the whole harrowing and depressing document. For those whose judgement may be set in stone, be mindful of the closing statement: 'The reader may wish to consider that sickness and disability can affect anyone at any time. Tomorrow it could be you going through this process.' summercat

5:01pm Mon 19 Nov 12

lewissv says...

Ah yes. You can't really judge a man (or woman) until you have walked a mile in their shoes. If you still don't agree then at least you are a mile away (and you've got their shoes).
Ah yes. You can't really judge a man (or woman) until you have walked a mile in their shoes. If you still don't agree then at least you are a mile away (and you've got their shoes). lewissv

5:23pm Mon 19 Nov 12

4-front says...

Inform Al wrote:
I live in sheltered accommodation and have a near neighbour who cannot walk unaided, and only feet with crutches so is tied to a wheelchair indoors and a mobility scooter to get around. He is now going blind but was asasessed as fit for work. There is definitely something wrong with what is going on. I am aware that there are some able bodied people abusing the system, but do not think it right for society to abuse those who need our help.
"Care in the Community" (CitC) was introduced under Thatcher; introduced by Kenneth Clark MP. Psychiatric hospitals like Knowle, with acres of Farmland where many patients with psychotic and other disorders were gainfully employed in "protected" conditions were sold off making vast profits! Was the money pumped back into CitC; a little was but nowhere near enough to adequatley "care" for those dumped out on the streets. Those who worked on the parks, etc for local councils under the "green card scheme" lost their jobs when Thatcher introduced CCT (compulsory competitive tendering). The caring Conservatives talked the talk but had no concept of what it was like to walk the walk.

Anyway here we are again in 2012; ATOS and brand new computer quacks dumping people, particularly those who are physically able (a far cry from capable for many with psychiatric disorders or long term debilitating illness) on the scrap heap. Their chances of finding a job are next to nil in practice!

Yet again the caring Cons, now in cahoots with the LibDems have successfully closed down the likes of REMPLOY relying on their "Big Society" to mop up the mess without anywhere near sufficient funding!

Wonderful world isn't it!

Hey, ho!
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: I live in sheltered accommodation and have a near neighbour who cannot walk unaided, and only feet with crutches so is tied to a wheelchair indoors and a mobility scooter to get around. He is now going blind but was asasessed as fit for work. There is definitely something wrong with what is going on. I am aware that there are some able bodied people abusing the system, but do not think it right for society to abuse those who need our help.[/p][/quote]"Care in the Community" (CitC) was introduced under Thatcher; introduced by Kenneth Clark MP. Psychiatric hospitals like Knowle, with acres of Farmland where many patients with psychotic and other disorders were gainfully employed in "protected" conditions were sold off making vast profits! Was the money pumped back into CitC; a little was but nowhere near enough to adequatley "care" for those dumped out on the streets. Those who worked on the parks, etc for local councils under the "green card scheme" lost their jobs when Thatcher introduced CCT (compulsory competitive tendering). The caring Conservatives talked the talk but had no concept of what it was like to walk the walk. Anyway here we are again in 2012; ATOS and brand new computer quacks dumping people, particularly those who are physically able (a far cry from capable for many with psychiatric disorders or long term debilitating illness) on the scrap heap. Their chances of finding a job are next to nil in practice! Yet again the caring Cons, now in cahoots with the LibDems have successfully closed down the likes of REMPLOY relying on their "Big Society" to mop up the mess without anywhere near sufficient funding! Wonderful world isn't it! Hey, ho! 4-front

5:34pm Mon 19 Nov 12

bigfella777 says...

Dresnez wrote:
teamgreen wrote:
bazzeroz wrote: And that scum, blood letting, vile piece of s.hite Abu Qatada is going to sue us, you, me the tax payer for £10million. There is no justice in this country. I wonder if he claims disability allowance! Smug bar steward. One SAS bullet should do the trick and then deport the rest of his blood sucking 'family'!
and the rest of the scum that follows him and his stupid beliefs
Not sure what this has to do with ATOS but why is Qatada suing us for £10 million? I must have missed this. If Theresa May had got her act together in the first place he would be long gone. She not only needed Jordon to change its constitution to say Qatada wouldn't be tortured, but that evidence against him was not gained by torture. She overlooked this part so the High Court here wasn't satisfied. Attention to detail is not her strong point. Contracts are not her strong points (G4S) despite having the access to the best brains in the country. Taking responsibility is not a strong point either.
why cant he be tried somewhere neutral then like the hague?
[quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]teamgreen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bazzeroz[/bold] wrote: And that scum, blood letting, vile piece of s.hite Abu Qatada is going to sue us, you, me the tax payer for £10million. There is no justice in this country. I wonder if he claims disability allowance! Smug bar steward. One SAS bullet should do the trick and then deport the rest of his blood sucking 'family'![/p][/quote]and the rest of the scum that follows him and his stupid beliefs[/p][/quote]Not sure what this has to do with ATOS but why is Qatada suing us for £10 million? I must have missed this. If Theresa May had got her act together in the first place he would be long gone. She not only needed Jordon to change its constitution to say Qatada wouldn't be tortured, but that evidence against him was not gained by torture. She overlooked this part so the High Court here wasn't satisfied. Attention to detail is not her strong point. Contracts are not her strong points (G4S) despite having the access to the best brains in the country. Taking responsibility is not a strong point either.[/p][/quote]why cant he be tried somewhere neutral then like the hague? bigfella777

9:57am Tue 20 Nov 12

sarfhamton says...

Why does every post on here end up with rants about hate preachers or single mothers or immigrants?
Why does every post on here end up with rants about hate preachers or single mothers or immigrants? sarfhamton

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