Green campaigners condemn proposed wind farm ban in Hampshire

Daily Echo: Friends of the Earth has condemned a proposed wind farm ban in Hampshire Friends of the Earth has condemned a proposed wind farm ban in Hampshire

ONE of Britain’s biggest environmental groups has hit out at Hampshire County Council’s proposal to ban wind farms on its land.

Representatives from Friends of the Earth (FoE) spoke out after gathering in the New Forest to show their support for wind power and other forms of renewable energy.

The county council says it recognises the benefits of wind farms but claims the huge turbines are a blot on the landscape.

As reported in the Daily Echo, Councillor Keith House, leader of the Liberal Democrat opposition group on the Tory-run authority, has described the proposed ban as “simply bonkers”.

Now FoE has joined the debate, staging a protest at which members from across Hampshire brandished cards spelling out the words “Clean British Energy”.

Penny Russell, the organisation’s co-ordinator in the New Forest, said: “Energy from free resources such as the wind and sun is crucial to our energy supply. “It’s clean, renewable and environmentally friendly.

“We were really shocked to see that Hampshire County Council is considering ruling out wind power on its land. “We thought the council was committed to helping reduce climate change.

“Renewable energy projects should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

“Wind and solar power are good news for the economy as well as the environment, and a blanket ban on one technology is sending out a negative message.”

The county council is a major landowner, with tenant farms, country parks and other sites across Hampshire.

The deputy leader, Councillor Mel Kendal, has defended the possible ban.

Speaking earlier this month, he said: “We are completely signed-up to the benefits of low-carbon energy but believe large scale wind turbines do not provide a sufficient benefit to justify the loss of some of Hampshire’s most prized undeveloped countryside.”

The row coincides with plans to build a £3billion wind farm off the Hampshire coast.

Dutch-based energy firm Eneco wants to install up to 300 turbines just nine miles from Barton-on-Sea. Construction could start in 2017.

Comments (47)

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7:28am Sun 25 Nov 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Hampshire's Tory County Councillor Mel Kendal and others may actually be serious about saving "undeveloped countryside" (Although it is difficult to believe) from wind turbines BUT unless all the alternative progressive methods of producing energy are adopted there won't be much of countryside left to protect due to changes in planet Earth's environment.

Wake up County Councillors. Stop behaving like ostriches with heads buried in sand and @rses stuck towards the sun, you lot may release few more hot gases but that won't produce any clean/green energy.

It is surprising how the people who want to restore and defend old windmills owned by their rich friends oppose their latest version the wind turbines, which I don't think look bad at all.
Hampshire's Tory County Councillor Mel Kendal and others may actually be serious about saving "undeveloped countryside" (Although it is difficult to believe) from wind turbines BUT unless all the alternative progressive methods of producing energy are adopted there won't be much of countryside left to protect due to changes in planet Earth's environment. Wake up County Councillors. Stop behaving like ostriches with heads buried in sand and @rses stuck towards the sun, you lot may release few more hot gases but that won't produce any clean/green energy. It is surprising how the people who want to restore and defend old windmills owned by their rich friends oppose their latest version the wind turbines, which I don't think look bad at all. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

8:18am Sun 25 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

I think the County Councillors are protecting the land for the majority, and not a group of tree huggers on a mission to satisfy their own ideals, for what is for me an unproven project, at the expense of others
I think the County Councillors are protecting the land for the majority, and not a group of tree huggers on a mission to satisfy their own ideals, for what is for me an unproven project, at the expense of others hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

8:34am Sun 25 Nov 12

stevebarker66 says...

"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out. stevebarker66
  • Score: 0

8:42am Sun 25 Nov 12

loosehead says...

Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road.
But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it.
The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise?
If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem?
saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise?
Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?
Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road. But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it. The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise? If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem? saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise? Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these? loosehead
  • Score: 0

8:51am Sun 25 Nov 12

elvisimo says...

stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
Good post and spot on
[quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote]Good post and spot on elvisimo
  • Score: 0

8:55am Sun 25 Nov 12

andyfidler1966 says...

hulla baloo wrote:
I think the County Councillors are protecting the land for the majority, and not a group of tree huggers on a mission to satisfy their own ideals, for what is for me an unproven project, at the expense of others
What project is that, exactly?
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: I think the County Councillors are protecting the land for the majority, and not a group of tree huggers on a mission to satisfy their own ideals, for what is for me an unproven project, at the expense of others[/p][/quote]What project is that, exactly? andyfidler1966
  • Score: 0

9:27am Sun 25 Nov 12

freefinker says...

stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
.. very well said, all true; but, too late I fear. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

The planets profligate frenzy for exploiting geologically sequestered carbon, without having any regard to the consequences, has almost certainly put us on the cusp of irreversible and society threatening climate change.

However, this seemingly never ending debate over electricity generation is, in fact, a cynical diversionary tactic by the fossil fuel lobby. Yes, electricity is vital to our society today, but only contributes a tiny percentage of anthropogenic CO2e.

While this ‘renewables debate’ over electricity generation rages, the vast majority of CO2e added to our fragile atmosphere comes from transport, industry, agribusiness, etc. Alas, while wind-farms are argued over ad infinitum, this aspect of our collective myopia is being totally ignored.
[quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote].. very well said, all true; but, too late I fear. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The planets profligate frenzy for exploiting geologically sequestered carbon, without having any regard to the consequences, has almost certainly put us on the cusp of irreversible and society threatening climate change. However, this seemingly never ending debate over electricity generation is, in fact, a cynical diversionary tactic by the fossil fuel lobby. Yes, electricity is vital to our society today, but only contributes a tiny percentage of anthropogenic CO2e. While this ‘renewables debate’ over electricity generation rages, the vast majority of CO2e added to our fragile atmosphere comes from transport, industry, agribusiness, etc. Alas, while wind-farms are argued over ad infinitum, this aspect of our collective myopia is being totally ignored. freefinker
  • Score: 0

10:00am Sun 25 Nov 12

derek james says...

stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
last time i looked this country had enough coal for about 300 years add in shale gas/ oil and we're unlikely to run out anytime soon (unless the greedy eu claims it for it's own) as for the claims about agw even the met office has admitted the earth has stopped warming and it's well documented that the planet has been warmer in the past without help from man, in the 1980's alarmists like yourself predicted sea levels would rise by 4m by now unless we stopped using fossil fuels, last time i looked out of the window it hadn't happened.
i.m glad you mentioned the rising price of electricity, most of which is caused by hidden green taxes building useless windmills and the like.as previously mentioned germany is building twenty three new coal fired power stations because wind doesn't work.another byproduct of high green taxes is high energy industrial employers leaving the uk for countries with cheaper energy, it's already happened with the aluminium industry, i wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with ford's and the recent steel closures.
[quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote]last time i looked this country had enough coal for about 300 years add in shale gas/ oil and we're unlikely to run out anytime soon (unless the greedy eu claims it for it's own) as for the claims about agw even the met office has admitted the earth has stopped warming and it's well documented that the planet has been warmer in the past without help from man, in the 1980's alarmists like yourself predicted sea levels would rise by 4m by now unless we stopped using fossil fuels, last time i looked out of the window it hadn't happened. i.m glad you mentioned the rising price of electricity, most of which is caused by hidden green taxes building useless windmills and the like.as previously mentioned germany is building twenty three new coal fired power stations because wind doesn't work.another byproduct of high green taxes is high energy industrial employers leaving the uk for countries with cheaper energy, it's already happened with the aluminium industry, i wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with ford's and the recent steel closures. derek james
  • Score: 0

10:11am Sun 25 Nov 12

freefinker says...

derek james wrote:
stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
last time i looked this country had enough coal for about 300 years add in shale gas/ oil and we're unlikely to run out anytime soon (unless the greedy eu claims it for it's own) as for the claims about agw even the met office has admitted the earth has stopped warming and it's well documented that the planet has been warmer in the past without help from man, in the 1980's alarmists like yourself predicted sea levels would rise by 4m by now unless we stopped using fossil fuels, last time i looked out of the window it hadn't happened.
i.m glad you mentioned the rising price of electricity, most of which is caused by hidden green taxes building useless windmills and the like.as previously mentioned germany is building twenty three new coal fired power stations because wind doesn't work.another byproduct of high green taxes is high energy industrial employers leaving the uk for countries with cheaper energy, it's already happened with the aluminium industry, i wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with ford's and the recent steel closures.
.. there you go, the scientifically illiterate have arrived.

Take a few so called 'facts', twist them, ignore the context, make up all the rest and, voilà, the problem vanishes.
[quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote]last time i looked this country had enough coal for about 300 years add in shale gas/ oil and we're unlikely to run out anytime soon (unless the greedy eu claims it for it's own) as for the claims about agw even the met office has admitted the earth has stopped warming and it's well documented that the planet has been warmer in the past without help from man, in the 1980's alarmists like yourself predicted sea levels would rise by 4m by now unless we stopped using fossil fuels, last time i looked out of the window it hadn't happened. i.m glad you mentioned the rising price of electricity, most of which is caused by hidden green taxes building useless windmills and the like.as previously mentioned germany is building twenty three new coal fired power stations because wind doesn't work.another byproduct of high green taxes is high energy industrial employers leaving the uk for countries with cheaper energy, it's already happened with the aluminium industry, i wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with ford's and the recent steel closures.[/p][/quote].. there you go, the scientifically illiterate have arrived. Take a few so called 'facts', twist them, ignore the context, make up all the rest and, voilà, the problem vanishes. freefinker
  • Score: 0

10:32am Sun 25 Nov 12

Torchie1 says...

freefinker wrote:
derek james wrote:
stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
last time i looked this country had enough coal for about 300 years add in shale gas/ oil and we're unlikely to run out anytime soon (unless the greedy eu claims it for it's own) as for the claims about agw even the met office has admitted the earth has stopped warming and it's well documented that the planet has been warmer in the past without help from man, in the 1980's alarmists like yourself predicted sea levels would rise by 4m by now unless we stopped using fossil fuels, last time i looked out of the window it hadn't happened.
i.m glad you mentioned the rising price of electricity, most of which is caused by hidden green taxes building useless windmills and the like.as previously mentioned germany is building twenty three new coal fired power stations because wind doesn't work.another byproduct of high green taxes is high energy industrial employers leaving the uk for countries with cheaper energy, it's already happened with the aluminium industry, i wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with ford's and the recent steel closures.
.. there you go, the scientifically illiterate have arrived.

Take a few so called 'facts', twist them, ignore the context, make up all the rest and, voilà, the problem vanishes.
Can you deny that you have produced a similarly biased statement based on evidence that is disputed by different sections of the scientific community but appeals to you. Evidence showing warming for a short period is seized on with glee but evidence showing anything else is dismissed and met with hostility in the same way that discussion about border control is met with accusations of xenophobia. The economics can't be disputed as the figures are freely available and show clearly that the pursuit of a green agenda will cost everyone a lot of money.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote]last time i looked this country had enough coal for about 300 years add in shale gas/ oil and we're unlikely to run out anytime soon (unless the greedy eu claims it for it's own) as for the claims about agw even the met office has admitted the earth has stopped warming and it's well documented that the planet has been warmer in the past without help from man, in the 1980's alarmists like yourself predicted sea levels would rise by 4m by now unless we stopped using fossil fuels, last time i looked out of the window it hadn't happened. i.m glad you mentioned the rising price of electricity, most of which is caused by hidden green taxes building useless windmills and the like.as previously mentioned germany is building twenty three new coal fired power stations because wind doesn't work.another byproduct of high green taxes is high energy industrial employers leaving the uk for countries with cheaper energy, it's already happened with the aluminium industry, i wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with ford's and the recent steel closures.[/p][/quote].. there you go, the scientifically illiterate have arrived. Take a few so called 'facts', twist them, ignore the context, make up all the rest and, voilà, the problem vanishes.[/p][/quote]Can you deny that you have produced a similarly biased statement based on evidence that is disputed by different sections of the scientific community but appeals to you. Evidence showing warming for a short period is seized on with glee but evidence showing anything else is dismissed and met with hostility in the same way that discussion about border control is met with accusations of xenophobia. The economics can't be disputed as the figures are freely available and show clearly that the pursuit of a green agenda will cost everyone a lot of money. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

11:08am Sun 25 Nov 12

southy says...

stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
The UK as over 400 years worth of coal stock and as never peak, oil is the one to worry about all the major oil fields have peak some time back and the decline in oil stocks as all ready started.
If we use our Coal, remove all the by-products so it will leave coke and use it just for the production of power and steel our coal could last for 600 years plus.
[quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote]The UK as over 400 years worth of coal stock and as never peak, oil is the one to worry about all the major oil fields have peak some time back and the decline in oil stocks as all ready started. If we use our Coal, remove all the by-products so it will leave coke and use it just for the production of power and steel our coal could last for 600 years plus. southy
  • Score: 0

11:11am Sun 25 Nov 12

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road.
But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it.
The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise?
If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem?
saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise?
Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?
Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road. But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it. The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise? If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem? saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise? Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?[/p][/quote]Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches southy
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Sun 25 Nov 12

ohec says...

If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.
If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process. ohec
  • Score: 0

12:47pm Sun 25 Nov 12

loosehead says...

ohec wrote:
If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.
sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations.
they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research.
Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.[/p][/quote]sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations. they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research. Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution loosehead
  • Score: 0

12:55pm Sun 25 Nov 12

ohec says...

loosehead wrote:
ohec wrote:
If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.
sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations.
they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research.
Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution
And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.[/p][/quote]sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations. they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research. Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution[/p][/quote]And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all. ohec
  • Score: 0

12:55pm Sun 25 Nov 12

ohec says...

loosehead wrote:
ohec wrote:
If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.
sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations.
they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research.
Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution
And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.[/p][/quote]sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations. they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research. Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution[/p][/quote]And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all. ohec
  • Score: 0

1:03pm Sun 25 Nov 12

mack chinnon says...

loosehead wrote:
ohec wrote:
If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.
sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations.
they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research.
Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution
Free power. In your dreams.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.[/p][/quote]sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations. they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research. Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution[/p][/quote]Free power. In your dreams. mack chinnon
  • Score: 0

3:00pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Fieldbean says...

southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road.
But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it.
The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise?
If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem?
saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise?
Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?
Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches
I think Southy should be given the golden poo prize for this remark. Of course the turbine gives off noise at varying frequencies. None of the frequencies reach anyone at more than 40 or 45db in general. Those frequencies are of course no different that electrical generators in road traffic. The low frequencies noise from the turbine, lower than that of a bass guitar might have an interesting effect on life form but I am not an expert on that.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road. But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it. The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise? If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem? saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise? Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?[/p][/quote]Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches[/p][/quote]I think Southy should be given the golden poo prize for this remark. Of course the turbine gives off noise at varying frequencies. None of the frequencies reach anyone at more than 40 or 45db in general. Those frequencies are of course no different that electrical generators in road traffic. The low frequencies noise from the turbine, lower than that of a bass guitar might have an interesting effect on life form but I am not an expert on that. Fieldbean
  • Score: 0

3:18pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Mr E says...

If wind turbines are that fantastic, how about putting a row of them along Weston shore where everybody can see just how wonderful they are.
If wind turbines are that fantastic, how about putting a row of them along Weston shore where everybody can see just how wonderful they are. Mr E
  • Score: 0

3:22pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Fieldbean says...

freefinker wrote:
stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
.. very well said, all true; but, too late I fear. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

The planets profligate frenzy for exploiting geologically sequestered carbon, without having any regard to the consequences, has almost certainly put us on the cusp of irreversible and society threatening climate change.

However, this seemingly never ending debate over electricity generation is, in fact, a cynical diversionary tactic by the fossil fuel lobby. Yes, electricity is vital to our society today, but only contributes a tiny percentage of anthropogenic CO2e.

While this ‘renewables debate’ over electricity generation rages, the vast majority of CO2e added to our fragile atmosphere comes from transport, industry, agribusiness, etc. Alas, while wind-farms are argued over ad infinitum, this aspect of our collective myopia is being totally ignored.
This is an excellent analysis from Freethinker. Can I point out that in CO2e, this means all green house gases or equivalents.

Yes this NIMBY argument is a diversion from the real problems of over consumption of energy. The media continue to turn away from it as it could cause civil chaos, knowing that a minority of very rich people control the means of production to completely wreck the planet within only a few decades.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote].. very well said, all true; but, too late I fear. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The planets profligate frenzy for exploiting geologically sequestered carbon, without having any regard to the consequences, has almost certainly put us on the cusp of irreversible and society threatening climate change. However, this seemingly never ending debate over electricity generation is, in fact, a cynical diversionary tactic by the fossil fuel lobby. Yes, electricity is vital to our society today, but only contributes a tiny percentage of anthropogenic CO2e. While this ‘renewables debate’ over electricity generation rages, the vast majority of CO2e added to our fragile atmosphere comes from transport, industry, agribusiness, etc. Alas, while wind-farms are argued over ad infinitum, this aspect of our collective myopia is being totally ignored.[/p][/quote]This is an excellent analysis from Freethinker. Can I point out that in CO2e, this means all green house gases or equivalents. Yes this NIMBY argument is a diversion from the real problems of over consumption of energy. The media continue to turn away from it as it could cause civil chaos, knowing that a minority of very rich people control the means of production to completely wreck the planet within only a few decades. Fieldbean
  • Score: 0

3:25pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Fieldbean says...

Mr E wrote:
If wind turbines are that fantastic, how about putting a row of them along Weston shore where everybody can see just how wonderful they are.
The Towers on Weston Shore would cause turbulence that would spoil the fluid rotation of the turbines. Turbines must be sited where we get best value for all the effort put into manufacturing them. We shall be having offshore ones hopefully soon, but some rural sites mean maintenance and construction keep costs down considerably.
[quote][p][bold]Mr E[/bold] wrote: If wind turbines are that fantastic, how about putting a row of them along Weston shore where everybody can see just how wonderful they are.[/p][/quote]The Towers on Weston Shore would cause turbulence that would spoil the fluid rotation of the turbines. Turbines must be sited where we get best value for all the effort put into manufacturing them. We shall be having offshore ones hopefully soon, but some rural sites mean maintenance and construction keep costs down considerably. Fieldbean
  • Score: 0

4:01pm Sun 25 Nov 12

KarenSTEMM says...

I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.
I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works. KarenSTEMM
  • Score: 0

4:13pm Sun 25 Nov 12

KarenSTEMM says...

I think the 'greenies' need to get back to their natural habitat of The Guardian comments' sections - they're certainly needed far more there, than here! Currently the poll on the link below is running at 63% Yes and 37% No in response to the question: 'Are you prepared to pay more for energy from renewable sources such as windfarms?' (Actually the question should read '....to pay EVEN more...') Anyway, they're being trounced in their own rag! That's karma for you! http://www.guardian.
co.uk/commentisfree/
poll/2012/nov/23/wou
ld-you-be-perpared-t
o-pay-more-for-green
-energy?fb=native
I think the 'greenies' need to get back to their natural habitat of The Guardian comments' sections - they're certainly needed far more there, than here! Currently the poll on the link below is running at 63% Yes and 37% No in response to the question: 'Are you prepared to pay more for energy from renewable sources such as windfarms?' (Actually the question should read '....to pay EVEN more...') Anyway, they're being trounced in their own rag! That's karma for you! http://www.guardian. co.uk/commentisfree/ poll/2012/nov/23/wou ld-you-be-perpared-t o-pay-more-for-green -energy?fb=native KarenSTEMM
  • Score: 0

5:21pm Sun 25 Nov 12

southy says...

Fieldbean wrote:
southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road.
But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it.
The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise?
If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem?
saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise?
Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?
Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches
I think Southy should be given the golden poo prize for this remark. Of course the turbine gives off noise at varying frequencies. None of the frequencies reach anyone at more than 40 or 45db in general. Those frequencies are of course no different that electrical generators in road traffic. The low frequencies noise from the turbine, lower than that of a bass guitar might have an interesting effect on life form but I am not an expert on that.
The db of a frequencies, would not matter much unless very loud, its the frequencies range pitch is the problem, the same thing happens when living under pylons, and is the reason now why homes are not built with in a certain distance from over head pylons, and there are cases now being reported people living close to wind farms suffering migraine, also that needs to be included is the strong magnetic field with this certain freuencies
[quote][p][bold]Fieldbean[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road. But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it. The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise? If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem? saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise? Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?[/p][/quote]Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches[/p][/quote]I think Southy should be given the golden poo prize for this remark. Of course the turbine gives off noise at varying frequencies. None of the frequencies reach anyone at more than 40 or 45db in general. Those frequencies are of course no different that electrical generators in road traffic. The low frequencies noise from the turbine, lower than that of a bass guitar might have an interesting effect on life form but I am not an expert on that.[/p][/quote]The db of a frequencies, would not matter much unless very loud, its the frequencies range pitch is the problem, the same thing happens when living under pylons, and is the reason now why homes are not built with in a certain distance from over head pylons, and there are cases now being reported people living close to wind farms suffering migraine, also that needs to be included is the strong magnetic field with this certain freuencies southy
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Sun 25 Nov 12

southy says...

Mr E wrote:
If wind turbines are that fantastic, how about putting a row of them along Weston shore where everybody can see just how wonderful they are.
Why not use the building it self, what happens with every tall building, there is an up-draft, only problem would be the magnetic frequencie will cause migraine
[quote][p][bold]Mr E[/bold] wrote: If wind turbines are that fantastic, how about putting a row of them along Weston shore where everybody can see just how wonderful they are.[/p][/quote]Why not use the building it self, what happens with every tall building, there is an up-draft, only problem would be the magnetic frequencie will cause migraine southy
  • Score: 0

5:29pm Sun 25 Nov 12

southy says...

KarenSTEMM wrote:
I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.
Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'"

Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.
[quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.[/p][/quote]Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'" Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit. southy
  • Score: 0

5:39pm Sun 25 Nov 12

KarenSTEMM says...

Noise from wind turbines is a very complex issue, and one that even wind energy companies are now recognising as something to be taken seriously. Examples from this week alone of noise issues from turbines in the UK involve scores of residents living near to wind factories in North Devon and Huddersfield. The following link is clearly presented and contains some fascinating information for anyone interested in noise problems and turbines.
http://www.acoustice
cology.org/docs/AEI_
WindFarmsAndNoise.pd
f
Noise from wind turbines is a very complex issue, and one that even wind energy companies are now recognising as something to be taken seriously. Examples from this week alone of noise issues from turbines in the UK involve scores of residents living near to wind factories in North Devon and Huddersfield. The following link is clearly presented and contains some fascinating information for anyone interested in noise problems and turbines. http://www.acoustice cology.org/docs/AEI_ WindFarmsAndNoise.pd f KarenSTEMM
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Fieldbean says...

southy wrote:
Fieldbean wrote:
southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road.
But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it.
The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise?
If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem?
saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise?
Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?
Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches
I think Southy should be given the golden poo prize for this remark. Of course the turbine gives off noise at varying frequencies. None of the frequencies reach anyone at more than 40 or 45db in general. Those frequencies are of course no different that electrical generators in road traffic. The low frequencies noise from the turbine, lower than that of a bass guitar might have an interesting effect on life form but I am not an expert on that.
The db of a frequencies, would not matter much unless very loud, its the frequencies range pitch is the problem, the same thing happens when living under pylons, and is the reason now why homes are not built with in a certain distance from over head pylons, and there are cases now being reported people living close to wind farms suffering migraine, also that needs to be included is the strong magnetic field with this certain freuencies
To try and compare magnetic resonance with the vibration of air in this discussion just shows you yet again have no knowledge. Why don't you just stick to bashing rich people that don't care a hoot about anyone who has nowt. I don't have a problem with your logic when you go for some blood sucking child exploiting stock hoarding banker type. Soon as you step into anything technical detail some sort of extreme ignorance starts to show up. I get annoyed and my own text then takes a bad turn.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fieldbean[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Look I love looking at our country side but I've also travelled to the continent & in the beginning stared at these things standing in the fields & standing by the side of the road. But soon forgot about them & just admired the scenery with them in it. The biggest problem here seems to be horse riders complaining about the noise? If a Police Horse can work in London in amongst that horse surely with the correct training horses can walk trot past these no problem? saw another program where the people were about a mile from wind turbines but complained about the noise? Try living next to a busy street or under the flight path of rescue helicopters & do we try to ban these?[/p][/quote]Different kind of noise Loose, wind turbines apart from the rush of air, the Generator lets out a noise pitch that can give headaches[/p][/quote]I think Southy should be given the golden poo prize for this remark. Of course the turbine gives off noise at varying frequencies. None of the frequencies reach anyone at more than 40 or 45db in general. Those frequencies are of course no different that electrical generators in road traffic. The low frequencies noise from the turbine, lower than that of a bass guitar might have an interesting effect on life form but I am not an expert on that.[/p][/quote]The db of a frequencies, would not matter much unless very loud, its the frequencies range pitch is the problem, the same thing happens when living under pylons, and is the reason now why homes are not built with in a certain distance from over head pylons, and there are cases now being reported people living close to wind farms suffering migraine, also that needs to be included is the strong magnetic field with this certain freuencies[/p][/quote]To try and compare magnetic resonance with the vibration of air in this discussion just shows you yet again have no knowledge. Why don't you just stick to bashing rich people that don't care a hoot about anyone who has nowt. I don't have a problem with your logic when you go for some blood sucking child exploiting stock hoarding banker type. Soon as you step into anything technical detail some sort of extreme ignorance starts to show up. I get annoyed and my own text then takes a bad turn. Fieldbean
  • Score: 0

5:52pm Sun 25 Nov 12

forest hump says...

stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
Absolute claptrap. There is enough natural gas in Europe to last many, many years. Nuclear is also a very cost effective alternative. Installing totally inefficient turbines which still require 100% back up will add to electricity costs. Develop natural gas and develop nuclear power generation.
[quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote]Absolute claptrap. There is enough natural gas in Europe to last many, many years. Nuclear is also a very cost effective alternative. Installing totally inefficient turbines which still require 100% back up will add to electricity costs. Develop natural gas and develop nuclear power generation. forest hump
  • Score: 0

5:54pm Sun 25 Nov 12

forest hump says...

freefinker wrote:
stevebarker66 wrote:
"tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo?

What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years?

The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade.

Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free?

We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent.

No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels.

We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out.

All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much.

This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem.

And time is running out.
.. very well said, all true; but, too late I fear. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

The planets profligate frenzy for exploiting geologically sequestered carbon, without having any regard to the consequences, has almost certainly put us on the cusp of irreversible and society threatening climate change.

However, this seemingly never ending debate over electricity generation is, in fact, a cynical diversionary tactic by the fossil fuel lobby. Yes, electricity is vital to our society today, but only contributes a tiny percentage of anthropogenic CO2e.

While this ‘renewables debate’ over electricity generation rages, the vast majority of CO2e added to our fragile atmosphere comes from transport, industry, agribusiness, etc. Alas, while wind-farms are argued over ad infinitum, this aspect of our collective myopia is being totally ignored.
Yaaawwwnnn
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stevebarker66[/bold] wrote: "tree huggers on a mission" hulla baloo? What sort of mission will you be on, I wonder, when electricity becomes either so expensive or supply is rationed - and yes, that is a very real prospect over the next 5-10 years? The Governments own figures acknowledge that 50% of our current power stations will have to close over the next decade. Right now we have a choice: continue to invest in carbon-based electricity production (supplies of which will run out eventually) or invest in developing new technologies to take advantage of the huge renewable and low-carbon energy resources at our disposal for free? We can continue to contribute to the fight over oil which has led to some of the biggest atrocities since WW2 or seek to become energy-independent. No sane person would claim that renewable energy can stand on its own two feet right now, but with the right investment in infrastructure, and the advancement that will only come through competition from a growing industry we will soon get to the point where renewable energy will be vastly more cost-effective than fossil fuels. We can choose to do this now or be forced to do this later when the gas and oil runs out. All that is at risk is the planet, and the countryside we rightly value so much. This is no time for N.I.M.B.Y-ism; Gas, coal and oil are a short-term fix to a long-term problem. And time is running out.[/p][/quote].. very well said, all true; but, too late I fear. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The planets profligate frenzy for exploiting geologically sequestered carbon, without having any regard to the consequences, has almost certainly put us on the cusp of irreversible and society threatening climate change. However, this seemingly never ending debate over electricity generation is, in fact, a cynical diversionary tactic by the fossil fuel lobby. Yes, electricity is vital to our society today, but only contributes a tiny percentage of anthropogenic CO2e. While this ‘renewables debate’ over electricity generation rages, the vast majority of CO2e added to our fragile atmosphere comes from transport, industry, agribusiness, etc. Alas, while wind-farms are argued over ad infinitum, this aspect of our collective myopia is being totally ignored.[/p][/quote]Yaaawwwnnn forest hump
  • Score: 0

6:22pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Fieldbean says...

KarenSTEMM wrote:
Noise from wind turbines is a very complex issue, and one that even wind energy companies are now recognising as something to be taken seriously. Examples from this week alone of noise issues from turbines in the UK involve scores of residents living near to wind factories in North Devon and Huddersfield. The following link is clearly presented and contains some fascinating information for anyone interested in noise problems and turbines.
http://www.acoustice

cology.org/docs/AEI_

WindFarmsAndNoise.pd

f
I have just skipped through your link. I think some of the data does need more explanation. I do know that industry has for over fifteen years hired out experts to do noise surveys, especially in Australia.

My believe at the moment is that I would prefer to live near a wind farm rather than the side of a railway track, motorway, airport. The residents who complain about the noise coming from Southampton Docks get little recognition and the docks are there solely to import millions of tons of cargo at a big big cost to the environment, and mainly increase our trade deficit. At least Wind Turbines help do something useful.
[quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: Noise from wind turbines is a very complex issue, and one that even wind energy companies are now recognising as something to be taken seriously. Examples from this week alone of noise issues from turbines in the UK involve scores of residents living near to wind factories in North Devon and Huddersfield. The following link is clearly presented and contains some fascinating information for anyone interested in noise problems and turbines. http://www.acoustice cology.org/docs/AEI_ WindFarmsAndNoise.pd f[/p][/quote]I have just skipped through your link. I think some of the data does need more explanation. I do know that industry has for over fifteen years hired out experts to do noise surveys, especially in Australia. My believe at the moment is that I would prefer to live near a wind farm rather than the side of a railway track, motorway, airport. The residents who complain about the noise coming from Southampton Docks get little recognition and the docks are there solely to import millions of tons of cargo at a big big cost to the environment, and mainly increase our trade deficit. At least Wind Turbines help do something useful. Fieldbean
  • Score: 0

6:26pm Sun 25 Nov 12

kingnotail says...

Build nuclear plants, build wind farms onshore and offshore, build solar, tidal....and F**K NIMBYs!!
Build nuclear plants, build wind farms onshore and offshore, build solar, tidal....and F**K NIMBYs!! kingnotail
  • Score: 0

6:26pm Sun 25 Nov 12

ohec says...

Another aspect to consider is that of birds flying into them a school on Portland had a small one and they had to switch it of because birds were flying into it and their remains were upsetting the children. And i don't see why we should be paying all of these so called green taxes because some deluded people think we can change nature, climate change is a natural occurrence that was occurring long before we got here and it will be going on long after we have gone.
Another aspect to consider is that of birds flying into them a school on Portland had a small one and they had to switch it of because birds were flying into it and their remains were upsetting the children. And i don't see why we should be paying all of these so called green taxes because some deluded people think we can change nature, climate change is a natural occurrence that was occurring long before we got here and it will be going on long after we have gone. ohec
  • Score: 0

6:29pm Sun 25 Nov 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
KarenSTEMM wrote:
I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.
Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'"

Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.
.. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens.

And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.[/p][/quote]Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'" Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.[/p][/quote].. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens. And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots. freefinker
  • Score: 0

6:45pm Sun 25 Nov 12

loosehead says...

ohec wrote:
Another aspect to consider is that of birds flying into them a school on Portland had a small one and they had to switch it of because birds were flying into it and their remains were upsetting the children. And i don't see why we should be paying all of these so called green taxes because some deluded people think we can change nature, climate change is a natural occurrence that was occurring long before we got here and it will be going on long after we have gone.
OHEC I watched Country file when they did a show on Wind Turbines Solar Panel arrays & Wave & Tidal generators,
Farmers have two of these Wind & Solar they still grow crops under them they still have farm animals around them & wild birds fly free around & through them.
The big Turbines don't spin at the speed of small wind turbines & the birds fly through quite easily.
to compare a small(er) turbine to the big large one is wrong.
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: Another aspect to consider is that of birds flying into them a school on Portland had a small one and they had to switch it of because birds were flying into it and their remains were upsetting the children. And i don't see why we should be paying all of these so called green taxes because some deluded people think we can change nature, climate change is a natural occurrence that was occurring long before we got here and it will be going on long after we have gone.[/p][/quote]OHEC I watched Country file when they did a show on Wind Turbines Solar Panel arrays & Wave & Tidal generators, Farmers have two of these Wind & Solar they still grow crops under them they still have farm animals around them & wild birds fly free around & through them. The big Turbines don't spin at the speed of small wind turbines & the birds fly through quite easily. to compare a small(er) turbine to the big large one is wrong. loosehead
  • Score: 0

6:52pm Sun 25 Nov 12

loosehead says...

ohec wrote:
loosehead wrote:
ohec wrote:
If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.
sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations.
they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research.
Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution
And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all.
ohec I'm not a tree hugging greeny. but out of interest how much are we going to pay to store radioactive waste for the live time of it?
As Gas is rising in price every year the actual cost of Green energy will even out with gas & coal.
Just remember the only cost to us at this moment is paying for the structures to be built exactly as we have to pay EDF to build nuclear power stations to supply us energy at a profit.
I agree with Bio Mass but as I've said to you before we should explore the Liquid Air engine & see how good it is at storing wind & Solar energy before rushing into radioactive waste producing power stations
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.[/p][/quote]sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations. they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research. Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution[/p][/quote]And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all.[/p][/quote]ohec I'm not a tree hugging greeny. but out of interest how much are we going to pay to store radioactive waste for the live time of it? As Gas is rising in price every year the actual cost of Green energy will even out with gas & coal. Just remember the only cost to us at this moment is paying for the structures to be built exactly as we have to pay EDF to build nuclear power stations to supply us energy at a profit. I agree with Bio Mass but as I've said to you before we should explore the Liquid Air engine & see how good it is at storing wind & Solar energy before rushing into radioactive waste producing power stations loosehead
  • Score: 0

7:32pm Sun 25 Nov 12

ohec says...

loosehead wrote:
ohec wrote:
loosehead wrote:
ohec wrote:
If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.
sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations.
they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research.
Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution
And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all.
ohec I'm not a tree hugging greeny. but out of interest how much are we going to pay to store radioactive waste for the live time of it?
As Gas is rising in price every year the actual cost of Green energy will even out with gas & coal.
Just remember the only cost to us at this moment is paying for the structures to be built exactly as we have to pay EDF to build nuclear power stations to supply us energy at a profit.
I agree with Bio Mass but as I've said to you before we should explore the Liquid Air engine & see how good it is at storing wind & Solar energy before rushing into radioactive waste producing power stations
Iv'e heard all the arguments before the same as a certain Mrs Thatcher said of north sea gas (it won't make gas any cheaper but it does mean it won't go up) and we all know the answer to that one. I will agree there is no harm at looking into other forms of power generation but that is long term in the short term we face the prospect of power shortages so we need answers now, and the only efficient form of power generation that we have is nuclear, now the green brigade have made us shut down some of our present power stations. What infuriates me most is paying for something i don't believe in the government have caught onto the fact that so called green taxes are a good con and a great way to generate funds. Everyday you can pick up a paper and read some codswallop that some genius has decided this and next week we get another genius saying the exact opposite (we should it salt we shouldn't eat salt etc) and the idea that we can stop or alter climate change is just another example, many people have tried to alter nature or its consequences and failed, i myself have spent years building sea defences but at the end of the day nature will always win. Nature also has a way of taking care of itself.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: If Germany have admitted that all the money they have spent on wind turbines has been wasted why are we insistent on going down that route, i do not believe all this garbage about climate change etc, climate change is a natural evolution one only has to look back in history to see how the climate has changed, indeed our so called natural resources i.e.coal/oil/gas are all a result of climate change.Nothing we do will alter nature and what will be will be, after all planes cars or anything else have not been around that long so what has caused climate change in the past, the whole green thing is a joke that has given our government the opportunity to increase its revenue by so called green taxes. What will happen is we will destroy our country with these abortions all over the place then when they realise they are a waste of time nobody will want to pay for there removal. I have no objection to the greenies playing with other forms of natural power if thats what they want but don't destroy our country in the process.[/p][/quote]sorry but as far as i recall Wind Farms are being built even more urgently now Germany scrapping it's nuclear power atations. they are also looking into & using Methane gas reclamator's to power Electricity Generators & are very interested in our Tidal & Wave generating research. Now with Liquid Air Storage/Motors the use of all the Wind,Wave,Tidal & Solar is going to come into their own giving us free power night & day with no pollution[/p][/quote]And just how much are we going to be paying for your so called free power, just like all tree hugging greenies you are deluded. The way forward for guaranteed power is nuclear, if you want mickey mouse green schemes fine as a top up but thats all.[/p][/quote]ohec I'm not a tree hugging greeny. but out of interest how much are we going to pay to store radioactive waste for the live time of it? As Gas is rising in price every year the actual cost of Green energy will even out with gas & coal. Just remember the only cost to us at this moment is paying for the structures to be built exactly as we have to pay EDF to build nuclear power stations to supply us energy at a profit. I agree with Bio Mass but as I've said to you before we should explore the Liquid Air engine & see how good it is at storing wind & Solar energy before rushing into radioactive waste producing power stations[/p][/quote]Iv'e heard all the arguments before the same as a certain Mrs Thatcher said of north sea gas (it won't make gas any cheaper but it does mean it won't go up) and we all know the answer to that one. I will agree there is no harm at looking into other forms of power generation but that is long term in the short term we face the prospect of power shortages so we need answers now, and the only efficient form of power generation that we have is nuclear, now the green brigade have made us shut down some of our present power stations. What infuriates me most is paying for something i don't believe in the government have caught onto the fact that so called green taxes are a good con and a great way to generate funds. Everyday you can pick up a paper and read some codswallop that some genius has decided this and next week we get another genius saying the exact opposite (we should it salt we shouldn't eat salt etc) and the idea that we can stop or alter climate change is just another example, many people have tried to alter nature or its consequences and failed, i myself have spent years building sea defences but at the end of the day nature will always win. Nature also has a way of taking care of itself. ohec
  • Score: 0

7:51pm Sun 25 Nov 12

derek james says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
KarenSTEMM wrote:
I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.
Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'"

Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.
.. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens.

And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.
talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.[/p][/quote]Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'" Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.[/p][/quote].. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens. And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.[/p][/quote]talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet. derek james
  • Score: 0

8:02pm Sun 25 Nov 12

freefinker says...

derek james wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
KarenSTEMM wrote:
I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.
Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'"

Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.
.. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens.

And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.
talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet.
.. oh, very scientific, I must say.

Have I said anything 'about the end of the world'? - No.

Have I mentioned above peer reviewed scientific consensus on how WE have changed the composition of our atmosphere? - Yes.

Trouble is, the scientifically illiterate seem unable to distinguish between these two statements.
[quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.[/p][/quote]Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'" Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.[/p][/quote].. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens. And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.[/p][/quote]talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet.[/p][/quote].. oh, very scientific, I must say. Have I said anything 'about the end of the world'? - No. Have I mentioned above peer reviewed scientific consensus on how WE have changed the composition of our atmosphere? - Yes. Trouble is, the scientifically illiterate seem unable to distinguish between these two statements. freefinker
  • Score: 0

8:48pm Sun 25 Nov 12

derek james says...

freefinker wrote:
derek james wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
KarenSTEMM wrote:
I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.
Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'"

Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.
.. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens.

And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.
talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet.
.. oh, very scientific, I must say.

Have I said anything 'about the end of the world'? - No.

Have I mentioned above peer reviewed scientific consensus on how WE have changed the composition of our atmosphere? - Yes.

Trouble is, the scientifically illiterate seem unable to distinguish between these two statements.
the trouble ft ipcc "peer reviewed) papers have been shown to be lacking, reviewed by like minded government employed scientists who's employment depends on fictitious agw scare stories remember the 50 million climate refugees predicted by the UN in 2005 for around now? like all their other predictions thay just haven't happened you can sleep safely tonight knowing your uncle derek has assured you the end of the world is not nigh
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.[/p][/quote]Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'" Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.[/p][/quote].. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens. And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.[/p][/quote]talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet.[/p][/quote].. oh, very scientific, I must say. Have I said anything 'about the end of the world'? - No. Have I mentioned above peer reviewed scientific consensus on how WE have changed the composition of our atmosphere? - Yes. Trouble is, the scientifically illiterate seem unable to distinguish between these two statements.[/p][/quote]the trouble ft ipcc "peer reviewed) papers have been shown to be lacking, reviewed by like minded government employed scientists who's employment depends on fictitious agw scare stories remember the 50 million climate refugees predicted by the UN in 2005 for around now? like all their other predictions thay just haven't happened you can sleep safely tonight knowing your uncle derek has assured you the end of the world is not nigh derek james
  • Score: 0

8:57pm Sun 25 Nov 12

freefinker says...

derek james wrote:
freefinker wrote:
derek james wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
KarenSTEMM wrote:
I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.
Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'"

Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.
.. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens.

And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.
talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet.
.. oh, very scientific, I must say.

Have I said anything 'about the end of the world'? - No.

Have I mentioned above peer reviewed scientific consensus on how WE have changed the composition of our atmosphere? - Yes.

Trouble is, the scientifically illiterate seem unable to distinguish between these two statements.
the trouble ft ipcc "peer reviewed) papers have been shown to be lacking, reviewed by like minded government employed scientists who's employment depends on fictitious agw scare stories remember the 50 million climate refugees predicted by the UN in 2005 for around now? like all their other predictions thay just haven't happened you can sleep safely tonight knowing your uncle derek has assured you the end of the world is not nigh
.. everything you say is total rubbish - regurgitated by conspiracy theorists and fools to hide their inability to understand the science.

Your views are so inane I'm not going to waste time debugging your very silly unsubstantiated claims.
[quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for the residents of Hampshire who have been such a focus for the dubious attentions of FOE of the Earth. The windies are getting desperate now as more and more people are realising that not only are wind turbines desecrating so much stunning countryside on our very small island, but they are also inefficient, unreliable and incredibly costly. The only people who truly benefit from them are already wealthy landowners who get tends of thousands of pounds from Feed In Tarriffs and largely foreign owned energy companies. Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick' scam at a time when more and more vulnerable people in the UK are going into fuel poverty, in part due to subsidising ineffectual turbines. It's about time FoE and their mates found a renewable to support that REALLY works.[/p][/quote]Correction "Given that many 'greenies' are usually socialist/communist I'm amazed that they continue to support this 'get rich quick'" Most Greenies are Capitalist, there is a separated Greens called the Socialist Greens and they do not support these type power generation system because they are not long term answer, and that they only benefit people with money and the ordinary person on the street will not benefit.[/p][/quote].. ah! Another Trotskyist front, the Socialist Greens. And just like all the other entryist Trotskyist fronts, including southy's Socialist Party (England and Wales), they are all ashamed to use the T word in their title - presumably in the vein hope that the gullible won’t realise they are nothing but a bunch of Trots.[/p][/quote]talking of gullible freew@nker that term must apply to you if you really believe all that garbage about the end of the world, i suggest you get a sandwich board and walk around westquay to warn everyone, the message clearly hasn't sunk in yet.[/p][/quote].. oh, very scientific, I must say. Have I said anything 'about the end of the world'? - No. Have I mentioned above peer reviewed scientific consensus on how WE have changed the composition of our atmosphere? - Yes. Trouble is, the scientifically illiterate seem unable to distinguish between these two statements.[/p][/quote]the trouble ft ipcc "peer reviewed) papers have been shown to be lacking, reviewed by like minded government employed scientists who's employment depends on fictitious agw scare stories remember the 50 million climate refugees predicted by the UN in 2005 for around now? like all their other predictions thay just haven't happened you can sleep safely tonight knowing your uncle derek has assured you the end of the world is not nigh[/p][/quote].. everything you say is total rubbish - regurgitated by conspiracy theorists and fools to hide their inability to understand the science. Your views are so inane I'm not going to waste time debugging your very silly unsubstantiated claims. freefinker
  • Score: 0

11:49pm Sun 25 Nov 12

KarenSTEMM says...

I thought your final point there was cogently argued , freekfinger. Well done for backing your points up with such coherent points. I feel we can all sleep well tonight in the knowledge that you and your ilk are keeping the planet safe for us all.
I thought your final point there was cogently argued , freekfinger. Well done for backing your points up with such coherent points. I feel we can all sleep well tonight in the knowledge that you and your ilk are keeping the planet safe for us all. KarenSTEMM
  • Score: 0

1:02am Mon 26 Nov 12

freefinker says...

KarenSTEMM wrote:
I thought your final point there was cogently argued , freekfinger. Well done for backing your points up with such coherent points. I feel we can all sleep well tonight in the knowledge that you and your ilk are keeping the planet safe for us all.
.. oh dear, sarcasm and name calling.

I actually have some sympathy with your original post concerning the costs, economics and practicality of how we will generate electricity in the coming years.

However, that does not alter the science – WE ARE changing the chemical composition of our atmosphere, as well as our climate. Overall that will not be advantageous.

In afraid I have little time for the science-deniers who regularly contribute to articles like this with lies, falsehoods, half-truths and regurgitated pseudo-science.

You need to realise that these two issues, electricity generation and climate science, are two totally separate issues.
[quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: I thought your final point there was cogently argued , freekfinger. Well done for backing your points up with such coherent points. I feel we can all sleep well tonight in the knowledge that you and your ilk are keeping the planet safe for us all.[/p][/quote].. oh dear, sarcasm and name calling. I actually have some sympathy with your original post concerning the costs, economics and practicality of how we will generate electricity in the coming years. However, that does not alter the science – WE ARE changing the chemical composition of our atmosphere, as well as our climate. Overall that will not be advantageous. In afraid I have little time for the science-deniers who regularly contribute to articles like this with lies, falsehoods, half-truths and regurgitated pseudo-science. You need to realise that these two issues, electricity generation and climate science, are two totally separate issues. freefinker
  • Score: 0

8:52am Mon 26 Nov 12

loosehead says...

China started out building God knows how many coal fired power stations it's now turned away from them & is building Wind Farms & Solar Arrays do you think they'd do that if they were a waste of time?
America has fields of Solar arrays & wind Turbines & do you think a money conscious country like that would be building these if they're were a waste of money?
China started out building God knows how many coal fired power stations it's now turned away from them & is building Wind Farms & Solar Arrays do you think they'd do that if they were a waste of time? America has fields of Solar arrays & wind Turbines & do you think a money conscious country like that would be building these if they're were a waste of money? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:47am Mon 26 Nov 12

KarenSTEMM says...

loosehead wrote:
China started out building God knows how many coal fired power stations it's now turned away from them & is building Wind Farms & Solar Arrays do you think they'd do that if they were a waste of time?
America has fields of Solar arrays & wind Turbines & do you think a money conscious country like that would be building these if they're were a waste of money?
There's a slight difference between the size of China and the size of the UK. I hardly think they'd notice wind factories in that country, but here it is a slightly different story. Here we will soon get to the point where it will hardly be possible to go anywhere without being in view of a wind turbine - they're nearly at that point in Scotland already and there are fears, for example, that this will impact on its current popularity as a filming location.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: China started out building God knows how many coal fired power stations it's now turned away from them & is building Wind Farms & Solar Arrays do you think they'd do that if they were a waste of time? America has fields of Solar arrays & wind Turbines & do you think a money conscious country like that would be building these if they're were a waste of money?[/p][/quote]There's a slight difference between the size of China and the size of the UK. I hardly think they'd notice wind factories in that country, but here it is a slightly different story. Here we will soon get to the point where it will hardly be possible to go anywhere without being in view of a wind turbine - they're nearly at that point in Scotland already and there are fears, for example, that this will impact on its current popularity as a filming location. KarenSTEMM
  • Score: 0

11:59am Mon 26 Nov 12

loosehead says...

KarenSTEMM wrote:
loosehead wrote:
China started out building God knows how many coal fired power stations it's now turned away from them & is building Wind Farms & Solar Arrays do you think they'd do that if they were a waste of time?
America has fields of Solar arrays & wind Turbines & do you think a money conscious country like that would be building these if they're were a waste of money?
There's a slight difference between the size of China and the size of the UK. I hardly think they'd notice wind factories in that country, but here it is a slightly different story. Here we will soon get to the point where it will hardly be possible to go anywhere without being in view of a wind turbine - they're nearly at that point in Scotland already and there are fears, for example, that this will impact on its current popularity as a filming location.
Really? I'd rather have sustainable Green energy than a film company.
We hear all this Anti Wind farm rhetoric yet when Tidal generators were going to be used in The Severn with no effect on fish or wildlife it was opposed because they wouldn't be able to surf on the rip tide (1-2 a year?).
We as Southampton are surrounded by rivers they have proven they can install these wave & tidal generators with no harm to fish like Salmon so why not say no more wind but yes we'll accept Tidal & wave generators?
I wonder if the people of Millbrook & Freemantle would prefer Wind Turbines or Solar array or a Bio Mass Generator?
I bet the first two would be very acceptable to them.
[quote][p][bold]KarenSTEMM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: China started out building God knows how many coal fired power stations it's now turned away from them & is building Wind Farms & Solar Arrays do you think they'd do that if they were a waste of time? America has fields of Solar arrays & wind Turbines & do you think a money conscious country like that would be building these if they're were a waste of money?[/p][/quote]There's a slight difference between the size of China and the size of the UK. I hardly think they'd notice wind factories in that country, but here it is a slightly different story. Here we will soon get to the point where it will hardly be possible to go anywhere without being in view of a wind turbine - they're nearly at that point in Scotland already and there are fears, for example, that this will impact on its current popularity as a filming location.[/p][/quote]Really? I'd rather have sustainable Green energy than a film company. We hear all this Anti Wind farm rhetoric yet when Tidal generators were going to be used in The Severn with no effect on fish or wildlife it was opposed because they wouldn't be able to surf on the rip tide (1-2 a year?). We as Southampton are surrounded by rivers they have proven they can install these wave & tidal generators with no harm to fish like Salmon so why not say no more wind but yes we'll accept Tidal & wave generators? I wonder if the people of Millbrook & Freemantle would prefer Wind Turbines or Solar array or a Bio Mass Generator? I bet the first two would be very acceptable to them. loosehead
  • Score: 0

12:57pm Tue 27 Nov 12

griffon says...

The county council is engaged in a game of gesture politics and the ban will appear in all their election leaflets.Anybody genuinly interest in the knowing more should read

http://www.foe.co.uk
/resource/factsheets
/wind_power_your_que
stions.pdf
The county council is engaged in a game of gesture politics and the ban will appear in all their election leaflets.Anybody genuinly interest in the knowing more should read http://www.foe.co.uk /resource/factsheets /wind_power_your_que stions.pdf griffon
  • Score: 0

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