Southampton City Council to cut archaeology unit

Daily Echo: Southampton's Bargate. Southampton's Bargate.

FOR more than 54 years it has unveiled Southampton’s illustrious Roman, Saxon and mediaeval past.

But the city council archaeology unit now faces becoming consigned to history.

Council bosses want to axe it because they say it lost the city £128,000 last year and is forecasted to lose £65,000 this year.

This comes as the council needs to slash £20m from its budget next year.

For council leisure boss Warwick Payne, it all boils down to hard cash: “If the archaeological team was even close to turning a profit there is no way this saving would put forward. Unfortunately it’s not even close.”

So the council now plans to bring in outside archaeological services when required instead.

But heritage bodies are fuming. Diana Friendship-Taylor, chairman of The British Archaeological Trust, said: “If Southampton is serious about its aspirations to become an international city of culture, which places great emphasis on the city’s internationally unique heritage resource, then the closure of the unit and the loss of local expertise is very much a backward step.”

The city’s archaeology unit can trace its origins back to the first appointment of a professional archaeologist in 1958.

Mrs Friendship-Taylor added: “The current staff of the unit have amassed a wealth of expertise on the history and archaeology of Southampton that is unparalleled and is irreplaceable.

“The proposed closure of the unit would be a significant loss to the people of Southampton, and to those developers who seek knowledge and expertise for the efficient investigation of archaeological remains within the city.

“There will also be a knock-on effect for the management of the city’s council’s large portfolio of legally protected ancient monuments as this function is also carried out by the archaeology unit.”

Arthur Jeffrey, acting chairman of the City of Southampton Society, said he understood that the council coffers were under strain but said the city’s heritage would suffer without its own team of archaeologists.

He said: “Things will crumble literally.

There would be wear and tear that the city council cannot maintain.

“I just hope this is closed for the short term and in open again in the long term.”

Eric Payne Danson, Southampton Tourist Guides Association general secretary, said: “What happens when rare and valuable treasures like Above Bar are allowed to decline without upkeep, until they can no longer be conserved?

“We have the Bargate which is probably the most important gateway of its type, in the whole of England, with the exception of York. The list of rare or unique things that Southampton has to offer goes on and on.”

The council’s nine-strong archaeology team, which provides briefings to developers and excavations of sensitive sites to ensure no archaeology is damaged during construction work, face redundancy. And a monthly meeting of the city’s young archaeology club, which has 15 m e m b e r s , and is run by the archaeology team, could now fold.

Most recently the archaeology unit has helped bring to life the city’s history at the new £15m SeaCity Museum and has overseen a restoration of the city’s 15th century Tudor House, now reopened as a popular visitor attraction.

The council is considering all its cuts proposals up until February when the city budget is set.

Comments (22)

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12:57pm Sun 9 Dec 12

southy says...

Another case of the TUSC told you so, and if the bin men think they are safe they need to think again, its a case of they are on the bottom of the list to be attack, so come on Woodland and Tucker and those of the SWP time you had a good look at your selfs and your support for the Labour Party they are taking you for suckers, time you lot started to think about who you support and why.

Archaeological services are not there to make a proffit, they are there to find out about history and to give the public a chance of learning about it.
Another case of the TUSC told you so, and if the bin men think they are safe they need to think again, its a case of they are on the bottom of the list to be attack, so come on Woodland and Tucker and those of the SWP time you had a good look at your selfs and your support for the Labour Party they are taking you for suckers, time you lot started to think about who you support and why. Archaeological services are not there to make a proffit, they are there to find out about history and to give the public a chance of learning about it. southy

1:17pm Sun 9 Dec 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

If Portsmouth can make a good deal out of it's heritage, why is Southampton so out of touch. It is vital that the History of this City is preserved and catered for, but it can be done without breaking any banks. When I mean heritage that accounts for the whole of its existence from the Stone Age (there was a settlement in the St Denys area) through to the present day and everything in between.
If Portsmouth can make a good deal out of it's heritage, why is Southampton so out of touch. It is vital that the History of this City is preserved and catered for, but it can be done without breaking any banks. When I mean heritage that accounts for the whole of its existence from the Stone Age (there was a settlement in the St Denys area) through to the present day and everything in between. OSPREYSAINT

1:48pm Sun 9 Dec 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Quote from Echo’s web page: Chairman of The British Archaeological Trust, said: “If Southampton is serious about its aspirations to become an international city of culture, which places great emphasis on the city’s internationally unique heritage resource, then the closure of the unit and the loss of local expertise is very much a backward step.”

Most reasonable people will fully agree with above.

But unfortunately for us the people of Southampton, our Council’s vision of culture is very much different than that of decent members of the human race, who appreciate and know what real culture means.

Under this seductively sounding respectable slogan of ‘Culture’ the dishonest, ego manic, self serving and unfit for the purpose so called councillors of NuLabour, whom we have elected, in fact are trying to turn our City into even bigger paradise for yobs.

They rather have more and more drinking dens, people pi55ed out of their minds, in a state that they won’t even recognise The Bargate when they bump into its outer walls, because they could not see due to too much booze.

Yes money may be short, why can’t these so called councillors address the real issue, which is problem with people based in London.

This is not exactly all that large sum when considering how much is wasted on maintaining basically two old fashioned clowns, otherwise called Mayor and Sheriff and their expensive back up services.

Abolish Mayor and Sheriff, save archaeology unit
Quote from Echo’s web page: Chairman of The British Archaeological Trust, said: “If Southampton is serious about its aspirations to become an international city of culture, which places great emphasis on the city’s internationally unique heritage resource, then the closure of the unit and the loss of local expertise is very much a backward step.” Most reasonable people will fully agree with above. But unfortunately for us the people of Southampton, our Council’s vision of culture is very much different than that of decent members of the human race, who appreciate and know what real culture means. Under this seductively sounding respectable slogan of ‘Culture’ the dishonest, ego manic, self serving and unfit for the purpose so called councillors of NuLabour, whom we have elected, in fact are trying to turn our City into even bigger paradise for yobs. They rather have more and more drinking dens, people pi55ed out of their minds, in a state that they won’t even recognise The Bargate when they bump into its outer walls, because they could not see due to too much booze. Yes money may be short, why can’t these so called councillors address the real issue, which is problem with people based in London. This is not exactly all that large sum when considering how much is wasted on maintaining basically two old fashioned clowns, otherwise called Mayor and Sheriff and their expensive back up services. Abolish Mayor and Sheriff, save archaeology unit Paramjit Bahia

2:42pm Sun 9 Dec 12

10 Minute Man says...

Oh perfect timing for the next wing of West Quay's consumer paradise, nestling next to the city walls. So when some herbert tonks it with a digger or a crane, who is going to assess it and recommend the repair ? And when they come across another site, who will excavate ? Or will it be a case of commercial development overrides all ?

Here's a suggestion: cut the self-congratulatory newletters and other communication chaff from the council. We can do without that, and it can come back in the future. But our heritage can't.

//10MM - not an artsy/heritage person but can spot a crime when I see one.
Oh perfect timing for the next wing of West Quay's consumer paradise, nestling next to the city walls. So when some herbert tonks it with a digger or a crane, who is going to assess it and recommend the repair ? And when they come across another site, who will excavate ? Or will it be a case of commercial development overrides all ? Here's a suggestion: cut the self-congratulatory newletters and other communication chaff from the council. We can do without that, and it can come back in the future. But our heritage can't. //10MM - not an artsy/heritage person but can spot a crime when I see one. 10 Minute Man

3:17pm Sun 9 Dec 12

joenice1 says...

I blame the union's for this, and Labour.

Hope they don't make this stupid mistake, even if they cut pay for other services. Maybe there own?
I blame the union's for this, and Labour. Hope they don't make this stupid mistake, even if they cut pay for other services. Maybe there own? joenice1

3:46pm Sun 9 Dec 12

housewife says...

The unit was doomed from when they made half of the team redundant 15 years ago.
And yes, it was designed to make profit, but with LGPS commitments, could never compete.
I just hope that one of the hand wringing charities is clever enough to snap up people like Matt and keep them working in the city, if not for it...
The unit was doomed from when they made half of the team redundant 15 years ago. And yes, it was designed to make profit, but with LGPS commitments, could never compete. I just hope that one of the hand wringing charities is clever enough to snap up people like Matt and keep them working in the city, if not for it... housewife

4:35pm Sun 9 Dec 12

eurogordi says...

This is a total and unacceptable disgrace.

Southampton has a traceable 2000 year history with archaeological remains going back even further. Visit cities like Bath and York, and the archaeological and architectural heritage is not only a vital part of the local economy but it also drives tourism as well.

Southampton has NEVER done this and poor preservation led to the near collapse of Tudor House. Although there were various grants to assist the restoration, how much money was wasted due to the council's negligence? In addition, it has not been possible to walk the walls for several years now due to neglect.

The relocation of the archaeological and maritime museums was a huge mistake, because the council were adamant to go ahead with Sea City which is NOT in the historic heartland of the city. Again, the council did not listen to the local people.

The Bargate, Tudor House, Holy Rood and the medieval walls are just four structures that should be promoted and used to bring people to the city. Furthermore, Southampton is the home of the Mayflower, Titanic and Spitfire.

The city of my birth has so much to offer, and yet the elected council, irrespective of which party holds a majority, has done nothing to preserve Southampton's heritage and even less in promoting what we should be proud of.
This is a total and unacceptable disgrace. Southampton has a traceable 2000 year history with archaeological remains going back even further. Visit cities like Bath and York, and the archaeological and architectural heritage is not only a vital part of the local economy but it also drives tourism as well. Southampton has NEVER done this and poor preservation led to the near collapse of Tudor House. Although there were various grants to assist the restoration, how much money was wasted due to the council's negligence? In addition, it has not been possible to walk the walls for several years now due to neglect. The relocation of the archaeological and maritime museums was a huge mistake, because the council were adamant to go ahead with Sea City which is NOT in the historic heartland of the city. Again, the council did not listen to the local people. The Bargate, Tudor House, Holy Rood and the medieval walls are just four structures that should be promoted and used to bring people to the city. Furthermore, Southampton is the home of the Mayflower, Titanic and Spitfire. The city of my birth has so much to offer, and yet the elected council, irrespective of which party holds a majority, has done nothing to preserve Southampton's heritage and even less in promoting what we should be proud of. eurogordi

4:37pm Sun 9 Dec 12

southy says...

I have a list of all the services that will be cut, and it would not matter if its a Tory or Labour Council both will make these cuts reguardless, just that order in which they are done is different.
disabled resindential care
family carers
the elderly, the homeless
victims of domestic violence
mentle health sufferers
drug related support
childrens centers
vuinerable familes
school transport
music services
young people with mental health needs
Our House, a children's residential care home
Schools budgets at Redbridge, Cantell and Woodlands seconary schools are to have their budgets cut by a total of £450,000 to pay for the increased cost of the Private Finance Initiative schemes
City Limits
School Crossing Patrols
The Crematorium
Bus subsidies cut
Local disabled buss pass cut
The Archaeology sevices, in the future is to close it.
Library budgets, meaning opening 15 hours a week at 8 Librarys, merger of the mobile library and the book bus and the lose of the saturday service
Parks and Ground maintenance.
The Art Gallery faces a cut in opening hours
And on top we see the increased in charges to car parking for evening car parkingcharges to district centre car parks and £30 residential permits fees for burial, cremation and pest services will be increase.

Some of these you all ready seen part of cuts, none are in full yet there is more to come, and this would of happened under a Tory Council also.
Jobs are going to be lost.
I have a list of all the services that will be cut, and it would not matter if its a Tory or Labour Council both will make these cuts reguardless, just that order in which they are done is different. disabled resindential care family carers the elderly, the homeless victims of domestic violence mentle health sufferers drug related support childrens centers vuinerable familes school transport music services young people with mental health needs Our House, a children's residential care home Schools budgets at Redbridge, Cantell and Woodlands seconary schools are to have their budgets cut by a total of £450,000 to pay for the increased cost of the Private Finance Initiative schemes City Limits School Crossing Patrols The Crematorium Bus subsidies cut Local disabled buss pass cut The Archaeology sevices, in the future is to close it. Library budgets, meaning opening 15 hours a week at 8 Librarys, merger of the mobile library and the book bus and the lose of the saturday service Parks and Ground maintenance. The Art Gallery faces a cut in opening hours And on top we see the increased in charges to car parking for evening car parkingcharges to district centre car parks and £30 residential permits fees for burial, cremation and pest services will be increase. Some of these you all ready seen part of cuts, none are in full yet there is more to come, and this would of happened under a Tory Council also. Jobs are going to be lost. southy

7:23pm Sun 9 Dec 12

AJ.... says...

"The relocation of the archaeological and maritime museums was a huge mistake, because the council were adamant to go ahead with Sea City which is NOT in the historic heartland of the city. Again, the council did not listen to the local people."

Your so right, When I saw the Sea City museum being constructed I knew it was a big mistake. I spent 3 months at Southampton archaeology doing my work experience about 13 years ago, It will be very sad to see it go, It cant go!
After the huge amount the council have spend on other money wasted projects.

If you don't have a past you can not move into the future.

Shame on you!!!!!!!
"The relocation of the archaeological and maritime museums was a huge mistake, because the council were adamant to go ahead with Sea City which is NOT in the historic heartland of the city. Again, the council did not listen to the local people." Your so right, When I saw the Sea City museum being constructed I knew it was a big mistake. I spent 3 months at Southampton archaeology doing my work experience about 13 years ago, It will be very sad to see it go, It cant go! After the huge amount the council have spend on other money wasted projects. If you don't have a past you can not move into the future. Shame on you!!!!!!! AJ....

8:50pm Sun 9 Dec 12

Bananalu says...

It is a disgrace to close the SCC Archaeology Unit. Both my children attended the Southampton branch of Young Archaeologists' Club (the only branch for several miles around) for many years where they had loads of fun and educational experiences they'd otherwise have missed. To my knowledge the Council's quoted membership figures are wrong. This is a thriving club with at least double the number of members they suggest. The City Council in recent years certainly seems to have little or no regard for the city's heritage. Yes, we have Sea City museum built at huge expense while Council employees were taking pay cuts or being made redundant, but we have lost the Archaeology Museum, which contained much more in the way of artefacts and information about the city's past than Sea City. As a result we have also lost access to the beautiful medieval buildings in the old town: God's House Tower and the old maritime museum Wool House building. Southampton has a wealth of archaeological remains and artefacts but locals and visitors are either denied access or are unaware of their existence. For many years I have held the opinion that the Council has not promoted the heritage of Southampton. We have no bus station to make it easier for visitors to get around, tourist information centres are not "visible" and signposting and promotion has been poor. The port is now thriving again with 1000s of visitors a year using the cruise ship terminals. Many of these people would, I'm sure, be delighted to take part in heritage city tours but I've never seen it happening. There is a treasure-trove of knowledge among the city council archaeologists and Southampton has a heritage to be proud of. Bringing in units from outside the city to do any future archaeological work (a legal requirement before building and development can take place in many areas of the city) does not make sense financially as they will not have the resource of local knowledge that is absolutely irreplaceable and held by the current dedicated team at the archaeology unit.
It is a disgrace to close the SCC Archaeology Unit. Both my children attended the Southampton branch of Young Archaeologists' Club (the only branch for several miles around) for many years where they had loads of fun and educational experiences they'd otherwise have missed. To my knowledge the Council's quoted membership figures are wrong. This is a thriving club with at least double the number of members they suggest. The City Council in recent years certainly seems to have little or no regard for the city's heritage. Yes, we have Sea City museum built at huge expense while Council employees were taking pay cuts or being made redundant, but we have lost the Archaeology Museum, which contained much more in the way of artefacts and information about the city's past than Sea City. As a result we have also lost access to the beautiful medieval buildings in the old town: God's House Tower and the old maritime museum Wool House building. Southampton has a wealth of archaeological remains and artefacts but locals and visitors are either denied access or are unaware of their existence. For many years I have held the opinion that the Council has not promoted the heritage of Southampton. We have no bus station to make it easier for visitors to get around, tourist information centres are not "visible" and signposting and promotion has been poor. The port is now thriving again with 1000s of visitors a year using the cruise ship terminals. Many of these people would, I'm sure, be delighted to take part in heritage city tours but I've never seen it happening. There is a treasure-trove of knowledge among the city council archaeologists and Southampton has a heritage to be proud of. Bringing in units from outside the city to do any future archaeological work (a legal requirement before building and development can take place in many areas of the city) does not make sense financially as they will not have the resource of local knowledge that is absolutely irreplaceable and held by the current dedicated team at the archaeology unit. Bananalu

9:07pm Sun 9 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Not making a profit?
Surely when they uncover our history the problem is we don't make it safe advertise it ,have guided tours around it & create jobs off of our historical past.
Many people in this city( football fans) might not like Portsmouth but they use their history to generate jobs & is that not a profit?
Why the slating of Sea City Museum?
The Wool House wasn't attracting any one as a sea museum was it?
we should have King Canute's Palace secured & open to the tourists & the French Wine Cellars.
There are vaults under the city by where the old Southerners was the very reason a Scottish bank bought the Southerners that bank is now shut Why not restore those vaults & open them up?
The Bargate I remember going up on to the battlements can you still do that?
Winchester,Portsmout
h all use their History as an attraction for tourists.
Only until I was showing an American girlfriend around did I realise This City was a Castle I was in my thirties then.
Don't scrap them but use what they've found to generate income & jobs.
The last council had school kids play parts in the Pilgrim Fathers re-enactment plus Titanic re-enactments so why not get them to start up Historical sound re-enactments of all periods of our history & let the Cruise ships know of these & attract tourists to stay in our city?
Not making a profit? Surely when they uncover our history the problem is we don't make it safe advertise it ,have guided tours around it & create jobs off of our historical past. Many people in this city( football fans) might not like Portsmouth but they use their history to generate jobs & is that not a profit? Why the slating of Sea City Museum? The Wool House wasn't attracting any one as a sea museum was it? we should have King Canute's Palace secured & open to the tourists & the French Wine Cellars. There are vaults under the city by where the old Southerners was the very reason a Scottish bank bought the Southerners that bank is now shut Why not restore those vaults & open them up? The Bargate I remember going up on to the battlements can you still do that? Winchester,Portsmout h all use their History as an attraction for tourists. Only until I was showing an American girlfriend around did I realise This City was a Castle I was in my thirties then. Don't scrap them but use what they've found to generate income & jobs. The last council had school kids play parts in the Pilgrim Fathers re-enactment plus Titanic re-enactments so why not get them to start up Historical sound re-enactments of all periods of our history & let the Cruise ships know of these & attract tourists to stay in our city? loosehead

9:54pm Sun 9 Dec 12

MGRA says...

southampton turkeys voted for christmas... you got the unions and labour and now the one gem in the locker they are going to bury because they are simply too stupid to maximise the potential.....
southampton turkeys voted for christmas... you got the unions and labour and now the one gem in the locker they are going to bury because they are simply too stupid to maximise the potential..... MGRA

10:09pm Sun 9 Dec 12

mr.southampton says...

The biggest shame about this will be the loss of expertise, knowledge and passion contained within the team. I did work experience there years ago with Dr Andy Russell who was as passionate about Southampton as you could get. Such a shame.
The biggest shame about this will be the loss of expertise, knowledge and passion contained within the team. I did work experience there years ago with Dr Andy Russell who was as passionate about Southampton as you could get. Such a shame. mr.southampton

10:15pm Sun 9 Dec 12

thinklikealocal says...

MGRA wrote:
southampton turkeys voted for christmas... you got the unions and labour and now the one gem in the locker they are going to bury because they are simply too stupid to maximise the potential.....
Erm, our history goes back hundreds of years, yet, the current administration, in power for 6 months have failed to properly exploit it?
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: southampton turkeys voted for christmas... you got the unions and labour and now the one gem in the locker they are going to bury because they are simply too stupid to maximise the potential.....[/p][/quote]Erm, our history goes back hundreds of years, yet, the current administration, in power for 6 months have failed to properly exploit it? thinklikealocal

10:51pm Sun 9 Dec 12

The Watcher says...

Welcome to the world of austerity and cuts heaped on local administrations by Westminster mandarins.
.
The obvious response to this funding crisis is for the Big Society to take up the slack and run these initiatives. .
.
Sadly Cameron's big idea just doesn't stack up as enterprises like this will function with public money.
Welcome to the world of austerity and cuts heaped on local administrations by Westminster mandarins. . The obvious response to this funding crisis is for the Big Society to take up the slack and run these initiatives. . . Sadly Cameron's big idea just doesn't stack up as enterprises like this will function with public money. The Watcher

11:02pm Sun 9 Dec 12

Vonnie says...

This is an absolute disgrace but is typical of all Southampton Councils since the year dot. Not one of them, of whatever political persuasion, has given two hoots or done anything to protect or promote Southampton's very rich heritage over a number of years. I would challenge some councillors to actually know where the archeology museum or archeology store actually is.
The Archeology Unit is an easy target, and always has been. In the 1990's the Council decimated the unit, making it totally uncompetitive even if it wanted to be commercial in any way, and now they are to close it. It is not just the popular archeology digs that archeologists actually do. They are responsible for all sorts of other related work, some of which is voluntary.
What is to happen to the millions of items in store yet to be written up from previous excavations, or those that have been conserved and are in controlled atmospheric storage? They still need looking after and kept in good order, or do the Council intend to give away/sell these things which actually belong to the people of Southampton?
Like it or not, in recent years, Portsmouth has made the most of its history, and that place was but a tiny village when Southampton was the gateway town and port to the then Capital of England, Winchester.
Southampton has the best preserved original walls in England, the first purpose built artillary platform, a Saxon place under the medieval one, and many, many other things that should be preserved/conserved. For that we need an active Archeology Unit.
Get off your backsides, Councillors, and commercially use Southampton's history, not allow its past and buildings to be destroyed by neglect, which is what will happen when the dedicated Archeology Unit is closed.
This is an absolute disgrace but is typical of all Southampton Councils since the year dot. Not one of them, of whatever political persuasion, has given two hoots or done anything to protect or promote Southampton's very rich heritage over a number of years. I would challenge some councillors to actually know where the archeology museum or archeology store actually is. The Archeology Unit is an easy target, and always has been. In the 1990's the Council decimated the unit, making it totally uncompetitive even if it wanted to be commercial in any way, and now they are to close it. It is not just the popular archeology digs that archeologists actually do. They are responsible for all sorts of other related work, some of which is voluntary. What is to happen to the millions of items in store yet to be written up from previous excavations, or those that have been conserved and are in controlled atmospheric storage? They still need looking after and kept in good order, or do the Council intend to give away/sell these things which actually belong to the people of Southampton? Like it or not, in recent years, Portsmouth has made the most of its history, and that place was but a tiny village when Southampton was the gateway town and port to the then Capital of England, Winchester. Southampton has the best preserved original walls in England, the first purpose built artillary platform, a Saxon place under the medieval one, and many, many other things that should be preserved/conserved. For that we need an active Archeology Unit. Get off your backsides, Councillors, and commercially use Southampton's history, not allow its past and buildings to be destroyed by neglect, which is what will happen when the dedicated Archeology Unit is closed. Vonnie

12:58am Mon 10 Dec 12

st1halo says...

What has profit got to do with anything?
I thought councils were originally formed to raise taxes for the king and also to allow local society to plan/build/develop their towns and cities for their benefit.
I must have been asleep when Tesco's took over and now everything has to be profitable, oh well, does anyone know when we recieve our share certificates and dividends?
What has profit got to do with anything? I thought councils were originally formed to raise taxes for the king and also to allow local society to plan/build/develop their towns and cities for their benefit. I must have been asleep when Tesco's took over and now everything has to be profitable, oh well, does anyone know when we recieve our share certificates and dividends? st1halo

5:57am Mon 10 Dec 12

aldermoorboy says...

13 years of Labour spending £4 for every £3 earned, plus local union/Labour idiots being in charge.
Vote Tory for a decent run council.
13 years of Labour spending £4 for every £3 earned, plus local union/Labour idiots being in charge. Vote Tory for a decent run council. aldermoorboy

8:33am Mon 10 Dec 12

loosehead says...

thinklikealocal wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southampton turkeys voted for christmas... you got the unions and labour and now the one gem in the locker they are going to bury because they are simply too stupid to maximise the potential.....
Erm, our history goes back hundreds of years, yet, the current administration, in power for 6 months have failed to properly exploit it?
Erm.how many years were the tories in power?
Did they close the archeology department?
How many years did we put up with June Bridles Labour Council?
Under her & then the Lib/Lab council what happened to the bargate? Gods House Tower & other historical sites?
you will attack me i'm sure but surely to create jobs we need to highlight our history more don't we?
As I've already said put on Historically sound re-enactments of our history like King Canute going from his Palace with entourage ( forgive the spelling) to the spot where he tried commanding the water to stop.
Our History is some thing we should be proud of & if we opened up these sites & used the Archaeologists to explain them to visiting tourists or even locals it would be far better than some tour guide wouldn't it?
I don't know how old you are but I remember under Deacons Tory Council we could go up to the very top of the Bargate what happened under June Bridles council instead of her getting a yearly pay rise & us paying more tax & US means the residents of this city not Eastleigh
[quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: southampton turkeys voted for christmas... you got the unions and labour and now the one gem in the locker they are going to bury because they are simply too stupid to maximise the potential.....[/p][/quote]Erm, our history goes back hundreds of years, yet, the current administration, in power for 6 months have failed to properly exploit it?[/p][/quote]Erm.how many years were the tories in power? Did they close the archeology department? How many years did we put up with June Bridles Labour Council? Under her & then the Lib/Lab council what happened to the bargate? Gods House Tower & other historical sites? you will attack me i'm sure but surely to create jobs we need to highlight our history more don't we? As I've already said put on Historically sound re-enactments of our history like King Canute going from his Palace with entourage ( forgive the spelling) to the spot where he tried commanding the water to stop. Our History is some thing we should be proud of & if we opened up these sites & used the Archaeologists to explain them to visiting tourists or even locals it would be far better than some tour guide wouldn't it? I don't know how old you are but I remember under Deacons Tory Council we could go up to the very top of the Bargate what happened under June Bridles council instead of her getting a yearly pay rise & us paying more tax & US means the residents of this city not Eastleigh loosehead

11:04am Mon 10 Dec 12

Vonnie says...

st1halo wrote:
What has profit got to do with anything? I thought councils were originally formed to raise taxes for the king and also to allow local society to plan/build/develop their towns and cities for their benefit. I must have been asleep when Tesco's took over and now everything has to be profitable, oh well, does anyone know when we recieve our share certificates and dividends?
I agree with your first sentiment but you have got the second bit totally wrong. Local Parish, Town, and City Authority Councils as we know them today are a conglomeration of the mix of Parish church Authorities and other civil entities "invented" during the 19th century.
Their only purpose was, and always has been, to raise local cash from rates and taxes, and control the people who lived within their boundaries in all their activities.

The idea of providing other than the basics for those people was a long awaited 20th century addition and that is now being totally eroded. This country, and this city in particular, is going backwards, not forwards.
[quote][p][bold]st1halo[/bold] wrote: What has profit got to do with anything? I thought councils were originally formed to raise taxes for the king and also to allow local society to plan/build/develop their towns and cities for their benefit. I must have been asleep when Tesco's took over and now everything has to be profitable, oh well, does anyone know when we recieve our share certificates and dividends?[/p][/quote]I agree with your first sentiment but you have got the second bit totally wrong. Local Parish, Town, and City Authority Councils as we know them today are a conglomeration of the mix of Parish church Authorities and other civil entities "invented" during the 19th century. Their only purpose was, and always has been, to raise local cash from rates and taxes, and control the people who lived within their boundaries in all their activities. The idea of providing other than the basics for those people was a long awaited 20th century addition and that is now being totally eroded. This country, and this city in particular, is going backwards, not forwards. Vonnie

2:58pm Mon 10 Dec 12

st1halo says...

Vonnie wrote:
st1halo wrote:
What has profit got to do with anything? I thought councils were originally formed to raise taxes for the king and also to allow local society to plan/build/develop their towns and cities for their benefit. I must have been asleep when Tesco's took over and now everything has to be profitable, oh well, does anyone know when we recieve our share certificates and dividends?
I agree with your first sentiment but you have got the second bit totally wrong. Local Parish, Town, and City Authority Councils as we know them today are a conglomeration of the mix of Parish church Authorities and other civil entities "invented" during the 19th century.
Their only purpose was, and always has been, to raise local cash from rates and taxes, and control the people who lived within their boundaries in all their activities.

The idea of providing other than the basics for those people was a long awaited 20th century addition and that is now being totally eroded. This country, and this city in particular, is going backwards, not forwards.
Thanks for the history lesson Vonnie but it was a tongue-in -cheek comment. Councils are required to consult on many issues these days and involve and inform residents so not totally wrong at all. The point of the post was bringing profit to the forefront of the issue. There are many things that are not profitable within the duties of the council and so I argue that this is not a valid reason for pursuing their intended course.
You are right in saying that the country and city are going backwards but this is what happens when people in-fight for generations on either side of the red/blue divide (as these forums verify) without realising that niether of these has the slightest clue what they are doing!
[quote][p][bold]Vonnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]st1halo[/bold] wrote: What has profit got to do with anything? I thought councils were originally formed to raise taxes for the king and also to allow local society to plan/build/develop their towns and cities for their benefit. I must have been asleep when Tesco's took over and now everything has to be profitable, oh well, does anyone know when we recieve our share certificates and dividends?[/p][/quote]I agree with your first sentiment but you have got the second bit totally wrong. Local Parish, Town, and City Authority Councils as we know them today are a conglomeration of the mix of Parish church Authorities and other civil entities "invented" during the 19th century. Their only purpose was, and always has been, to raise local cash from rates and taxes, and control the people who lived within their boundaries in all their activities. The idea of providing other than the basics for those people was a long awaited 20th century addition and that is now being totally eroded. This country, and this city in particular, is going backwards, not forwards.[/p][/quote]Thanks for the history lesson Vonnie but it was a tongue-in -cheek comment. Councils are required to consult on many issues these days and involve and inform residents so not totally wrong at all. The point of the post was bringing profit to the forefront of the issue. There are many things that are not profitable within the duties of the council and so I argue that this is not a valid reason for pursuing their intended course. You are right in saying that the country and city are going backwards but this is what happens when people in-fight for generations on either side of the red/blue divide (as these forums verify) without realising that niether of these has the slightest clue what they are doing! st1halo

10:58pm Mon 10 Dec 12

u106215 says...

Southampton Unit, as a council owned unit has more incentive to focus on the archaeological potential of any given task. They are also the foremost experts on Southampton history, no city should arbitrarily sever its links with its past. Liverpool hasn't.... and their old maritime quarter is thriving. Southampton is missing a trick.

A purely commercial archaeology unit is designed to make a profit which it will do so by keeping developers happy & by winning repeat work. This involves spending the minimum time on site to get the boxes ticked. Since it is the developer who pays the bill for the archaeologists, they will not have an interest in anything other than getting rid of anything delaying the development.

A commercial archaeology firm is probably happy to oblige, it would make business sense (happy developer = repeat work) but misses the point entirely.
Southampton Unit, as a council owned unit has more incentive to focus on the archaeological potential of any given task. They are also the foremost experts on Southampton history, no city should arbitrarily sever its links with its past. Liverpool hasn't.... and their old maritime quarter is thriving. Southampton is missing a trick. A purely commercial archaeology unit is designed to make a profit which it will do so by keeping developers happy & by winning repeat work. This involves spending the minimum time on site to get the boxes ticked. Since it is the developer who pays the bill for the archaeologists, they will not have an interest in anything other than getting rid of anything delaying the development. A commercial archaeology firm is probably happy to oblige, it would make business sense (happy developer = repeat work) but misses the point entirely. u106215

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