Vision to reconnect Bargate with Southampton's old town walls

Vision to reconnect Bargate with town walls

How the Bargate could look if the plan comes to fruition

Bargate, Southampton

First published in News Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Senior Reporter

TODAY a bold new vision can be revealed to restore one of Southampton’s most famous landmarks to its former glory.

Plans have been drawn up to reinstate the medieval Bargate to the city’s ancient walls.

If funding is won, people will be able to walk one and a half miles along the walls towards the waterfront for the first time in more than 200 years.

The idea is the latest to emerge out of a major regeneration scheme as part of a £3 billion City Centre Masterplan, which would see the city transformed over the next 25 years.

New shops The Bargate, dating back to 1180, became marooned after a redevelopment project in the 1930s saw old adjoining buildings replaced with new ones either side.

Now civic planners want to reconnect the Grade I listed Bargate by sweeping the pre-war buildings either side away and replacing it with new four- storey blocks comprising shops, offices and flats.

If the vision wins government development funding and support from the landlords of existing buildings, it would mean people could climb up and walk westward along the reinstated walls.

Another striking aspect would be the closure of the busy West Bargate to traffic.

This will be paved over, extending the pedestrianisation of the QE2 Mile up to the historic gateway, creating a public space with a modernist sculpture as a centrepiece.

The overall vision is to make Southampton a more integrated and pedestrian-friendly city, with traffic diverted around the city centre in a new ring road-style network.

Another major plan is to transform the Western Esplanade into a tree-lined, paved area with public seating.

Council heritage boss Warwick Payne said: “There are some hugely exciting proposals in the masterplan, especially around maximising the heritage landmarks of Southampton.

“One of the city’s iconic landmarks is of course the Bargate. When I was a child it was little more than a glorified traffic island.

“Over the years it’s been brought back into a more accessible piece of heritage and the masterplan could take it a step forward, so that it can once again become the gateway to our city, rather than an attractive piece of street furniture.”

The plans have been welcomed by heritage watchdog The Southampton Society.

Society acting chairman Arthur Jeffery said: “There is a lot of detail to iron out, but we are positive about it. It will enhance our heritage.

“The best bit will be the fact the Bargate will come back to its own.”

As reported in the Daily Echo, city chiefs want to downgrade the busy street in front of the Civic Centre from five lanes to two and replace the car park with a park.

 

Comments (49)

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4:44am Fri 14 Dec 12

pyan says...

"Council heritage boss Warwick Payne said: “There are some hugely exciting proposals in the masterplan, especially around maximising the heritage landmarks of Southampton."

This is the same "Council heritage boss Warwick Payne" that's closing down the city's Archaeological service, so if this plan goes ahead the council will be paying a large amount of our money to an outside commercial company to watch over the site, yes?
"Council heritage boss Warwick Payne said: “There are some hugely exciting proposals in the masterplan, especially around maximising the heritage landmarks of Southampton." This is the same "Council heritage boss Warwick Payne" that's closing down the city's Archaeological service, so if this plan goes ahead the council will be paying a large amount of our money to an outside commercial company to watch over the site, yes? pyan
  • Score: 0

6:22am Fri 14 Dec 12

Vonnie says...

pyan wrote:
"Council heritage boss Warwick Payne said: “There are some hugely exciting proposals in the masterplan, especially around maximising the heritage landmarks of Southampton." This is the same "Council heritage boss Warwick Payne" that's closing down the city's Archaeological service, so if this plan goes ahead the council will be paying a large amount of our money to an outside commercial company to watch over the site, yes?
The answer is obviously "yes" and the same to the question of who will be employed to archeologize the site whilst it is being developed/regenerate
d, as has to be done by law.

No doubt, an entity like Wessex Archeology, as has happened with virtually every other site since the Southampton City Unit was first devastated by the Council in the 1990's.

The present safety standard of the Bargate as a building also has to be considered. The inability for it to comply with basic standards of safety for public access and later, the Access for All legislation, without a lot of money being spent on it was the main reason why it was closed in the 1980's. Even a voluntary organisation that re-opened and ran it two decades later could not keep it open.

If the article is read properly it will be also be seen to say "IF the funding is won......" and "IF the vision wins government development funding............"


Much though I would like to see it happen, "whistling in the wind" is the expression that comes to my mind. A bit like the leisure and upgrading part of the West Quay development plans that never happened.
Shops we have, but most of the rest of the plan went by the board.
[quote][p][bold]pyan[/bold] wrote: "Council heritage boss Warwick Payne said: “There are some hugely exciting proposals in the masterplan, especially around maximising the heritage landmarks of Southampton." This is the same "Council heritage boss Warwick Payne" that's closing down the city's Archaeological service, so if this plan goes ahead the council will be paying a large amount of our money to an outside commercial company to watch over the site, yes?[/p][/quote]The answer is obviously "yes" and the same to the question of who will be employed to archeologize the site whilst it is being developed/regenerate d, as has to be done by law. No doubt, an entity like Wessex Archeology, as has happened with virtually every other site since the Southampton City Unit was first devastated by the Council in the 1990's. The present safety standard of the Bargate as a building also has to be considered. The inability for it to comply with basic standards of safety for public access and later, the Access for All legislation, without a lot of money being spent on it was the main reason why it was closed in the 1980's. Even a voluntary organisation that re-opened and ran it two decades later could not keep it open. If the article is read properly it will be also be seen to say "IF the funding is won......" and "IF the vision wins government development funding............" Much though I would like to see it happen, "whistling in the wind" is the expression that comes to my mind. A bit like the leisure and upgrading part of the West Quay development plans that never happened. Shops we have, but most of the rest of the plan went by the board. Vonnie
  • Score: 0

6:28am Fri 14 Dec 12

Lord Ikea says...

The Artists Impression of the Bargate forgot to show the stupid German Market.
The Artists Impression of the Bargate forgot to show the stupid German Market. Lord Ikea
  • Score: 0

6:47am Fri 14 Dec 12

skin2000 says...

More artist impressions of a new Southampton....we seem to have one a day now...not sure where the money is going to come from...but if it keeps the artist in a job...that good.
More artist impressions of a new Southampton....we seem to have one a day now...not sure where the money is going to come from...but if it keeps the artist in a job...that good. skin2000
  • Score: 0

7:20am Fri 14 Dec 12

skin2000 says...

Lord Ikea wrote:
The Artists Impression of the Bargate forgot to show the stupid German Market.
Yes...bring back the sheds...but on the other side, it looks skateboard friendly.
[quote][p][bold]Lord Ikea[/bold] wrote: The Artists Impression of the Bargate forgot to show the stupid German Market.[/p][/quote]Yes...bring back the sheds...but on the other side, it looks skateboard friendly. skin2000
  • Score: 0

7:21am Fri 14 Dec 12

joenice1 says...

This is really good!!!!
This is really good!!!! joenice1
  • Score: 1

7:54am Fri 14 Dec 12

loosehead says...

To make it look authentic they would have to build the walls exactly the same as the city walls & the Bargate construct or it will look awful.
pedestrianise West Bargate?
Yes I like pedestrian areas but we need the roads to bring the cars & buses to the city car parks & the shoppers to our city don't we?
I agree this would be a project our own Archeology Department would be good at over seeing.
IF they can do this ( Bargate & Walls) Well done Labour.
So did you see the words Flats?
Some developer wants to build flats & is willing to subsidise the wall building? Is this a done deal?
To make it look authentic they would have to build the walls exactly the same as the city walls & the Bargate construct or it will look awful. pedestrianise West Bargate? Yes I like pedestrian areas but we need the roads to bring the cars & buses to the city car parks & the shoppers to our city don't we? I agree this would be a project our own Archeology Department would be good at over seeing. IF they can do this ( Bargate & Walls) Well done Labour. So did you see the words Flats? Some developer wants to build flats & is willing to subsidise the wall building? Is this a done deal? loosehead
  • Score: 0

8:25am Fri 14 Dec 12

Higginz says...

So, cyclists will still exist in 25 years time. And we'll be living alongside giant pearls in some kind of Roger Rabbit style cartoon/real-life mix. Crazy days ahead!
So, cyclists will still exist in 25 years time. And we'll be living alongside giant pearls in some kind of Roger Rabbit style cartoon/real-life mix. Crazy days ahead! Higginz
  • Score: 0

8:52am Fri 14 Dec 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

So is this a stone wall certainty? 9th December Council say they are getting rid of the archaeology unit, now some **** eyed plan to restore historic walls, so who is going to oversee the authenticity? Costains?
So is this a stone wall certainty? 9th December Council say they are getting rid of the archaeology unit, now some **** eyed plan to restore historic walls, so who is going to oversee the authenticity? Costains? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

9:32am Fri 14 Dec 12

The Music Man says...

that's the worst artist impression I have ever seen. It could work if it looks good - but THAT looks embarrassing
that's the worst artist impression I have ever seen. It could work if it looks good - but THAT looks embarrassing The Music Man
  • Score: 0

9:36am Fri 14 Dec 12

Mikedav1 says...

Skateboarders would love this.
Skateboarders would love this. Mikedav1
  • Score: 0

9:54am Fri 14 Dec 12

The Wrinkled Retainer says...

So part of the "Grand Vision" for Bargate Square is to introduce an entirely random sculpture on the northern side to help obscure the view of the Bargate?

This should help enhance the setting no end as the two pound shops, Burger King and a mostly empty shopping centre currently do such a wonderful job of providing a setting for Bargate Square.

At least it will help obscure the years of neglect. Will part of the scheme pay for the monument to be maintained? Or will the comedy paving just draw attention to the fact that the city council is more interested in introducing a "theme park" vision to the cities heritage, rather than caring for the heritage it already has?

If you visit York and Chester they use the town walls to attract visitors. Southampton (third only to those two cities in its existing circuit of mediaeval walls) uses the town walls as a backdrop for shopping centres, a comedy German market and a frozen puddle in a marquee.
So part of the "Grand Vision" for Bargate Square is to introduce an entirely random sculpture on the northern side to help obscure the view of the Bargate? This should help enhance the setting no end as the two pound shops, Burger King and a mostly empty shopping centre currently do such a wonderful job of providing a setting for Bargate Square. At least it will help obscure the years of neglect. Will part of the scheme pay for the monument to be maintained? Or will the comedy paving just draw attention to the fact that the city council is more interested in introducing a "theme park" vision to the cities heritage, rather than caring for the heritage it already has? If you visit York and Chester they use the town walls to attract visitors. Southampton (third only to those two cities in its existing circuit of mediaeval walls) uses the town walls as a backdrop for shopping centres, a comedy German market and a frozen puddle in a marquee. The Wrinkled Retainer
  • Score: 0

10:00am Fri 14 Dec 12

Avery T Decanary says...

So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already. Avery T Decanary
  • Score: 0

10:03am Fri 14 Dec 12

alan.of.eastleigh says...

The Wrinkled Retainer wrote:
So part of the "Grand Vision" for Bargate Square is to introduce an entirely random sculpture on the northern side to help obscure the view of the Bargate? This should help enhance the setting no end as the two pound shops, Burger King and a mostly empty shopping centre currently do such a wonderful job of providing a setting for Bargate Square. At least it will help obscure the years of neglect. Will part of the scheme pay for the monument to be maintained? Or will the comedy paving just draw attention to the fact that the city council is more interested in introducing a "theme park" vision to the cities heritage, rather than caring for the heritage it already has? If you visit York and Chester they use the town walls to attract visitors. Southampton (third only to those two cities in its existing circuit of mediaeval walls) uses the town walls as a backdrop for shopping centres, a comedy German market and a frozen puddle in a marquee.
Given that I never even spotted the sculpture until you pointed out - probably not a concern.
[quote][p][bold]The Wrinkled Retainer[/bold] wrote: So part of the "Grand Vision" for Bargate Square is to introduce an entirely random sculpture on the northern side to help obscure the view of the Bargate? This should help enhance the setting no end as the two pound shops, Burger King and a mostly empty shopping centre currently do such a wonderful job of providing a setting for Bargate Square. At least it will help obscure the years of neglect. Will part of the scheme pay for the monument to be maintained? Or will the comedy paving just draw attention to the fact that the city council is more interested in introducing a "theme park" vision to the cities heritage, rather than caring for the heritage it already has? If you visit York and Chester they use the town walls to attract visitors. Southampton (third only to those two cities in its existing circuit of mediaeval walls) uses the town walls as a backdrop for shopping centres, a comedy German market and a frozen puddle in a marquee.[/p][/quote]Given that I never even spotted the sculpture until you pointed out - probably not a concern. alan.of.eastleigh
  • Score: 0

10:07am Fri 14 Dec 12

S Pance says...

I agree, they need to replace the bits with something authentic, build using the same materials and techniques as the Bargate.

Alternatively, they need to fill in the missing bits with something ultra-modern, such as stainless steel and glass.

To make something that is close-ish to the appearance of the Bargate, as the picture suggests, will just look silly.
I agree, they need to replace the bits with something authentic, build using the same materials and techniques as the Bargate. Alternatively, they need to fill in the missing bits with something ultra-modern, such as stainless steel and glass. To make something that is close-ish to the appearance of the Bargate, as the picture suggests, will just look silly. S Pance
  • Score: 0

10:57am Fri 14 Dec 12

Bagamn says...

For a city that is so broke and needs so much money, this has got to be a pipe dream. They cannot afford the City that we have got, let alone planning on another big spend. The Art section in Above Bar isn't even started yet.
For a city that is so broke and needs so much money, this has got to be a pipe dream. They cannot afford the City that we have got, let alone planning on another big spend. The Art section in Above Bar isn't even started yet. Bagamn
  • Score: 0

11:06am Fri 14 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
[quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

11:18am Fri 14 Dec 12

gazdance says...

Moan moan moan. Seriously, the Echo moaning brigade are like clockwork and entirely predictable in their responses.

Let's never, ever have any vision for the future at all. Seems that the only way to keep people happy is to change nothing at all.

Every plan I've seen to regenerate Southampton is a step in the right direction. This is all part of a long-term plan. Anyone who has seen the overall, city wide "vision" will be able to see that it is better than what we have now.

Southampton, as it stands, can best be summed up as a missed opportunity. Years and years of bad planning and seemingly no forward thinking have left the city centre disjointed and traffic dominates.

These forward looking ideas are great. Who knows how many will actually come to pass but I for one am pleased that at least someone, somewhere, it seems, is giving it some thought.
Moan moan moan. Seriously, the Echo moaning brigade are like clockwork and entirely predictable in their responses. Let's never, ever have any vision for the future at all. Seems that the only way to keep people happy is to change nothing at all. Every plan I've seen to regenerate Southampton is a step in the right direction. This is all part of a long-term plan. Anyone who has seen the overall, city wide "vision" will be able to see that it is better than what we have now. Southampton, as it stands, can best be summed up as a missed opportunity. Years and years of bad planning and seemingly no forward thinking have left the city centre disjointed and traffic dominates. These forward looking ideas are great. Who knows how many will actually come to pass but I for one am pleased that at least someone, somewhere, it seems, is giving it some thought. gazdance
  • Score: 0

11:23am Fri 14 Dec 12

sotonboy84 says...

I agree that the idea of developing the area and reconnecting the walls is a great idea but the style of building is not very sympathetic and looks more like a cheap out of town office building. And the sculpture is hideous. Why when a city like Southampton has so much history would you want to install something that looks like an oversized car aerial that has no relevance to the city. I know this is just a computer design at present but when Tudor House was reopened, the main exhibit was the building itself. The Bargate needs sympathetic materials and surroundings and not some modern eyesore to detract you from it.

I've always thought how lovely the Bargate looked before the 1930's development when High Street and Above Bar were a lot narrower because the buildings were in line with the bargate. And the little squares like Pembroke Square looked great. This created a busy shopping area and made the Bargate look grand and impressive because it wasn't left stood on its own looking lost. The above plans are a good compromise to what we once had and if it ever goes ahead it would be better than what we have but the designs of the buildings and choice of 'street furniture' would have to change.

I agree with the post above that Southampton does not use our heritage to attract people to the city. It never has done and I doubt it ever will. Councillors seem to be focused on making Southampton look shiny, modern and new with ultra-modern buildings and sweep away the good points of the past and our heritage with it. The planners in Southampton are like Ikea really, looks modern from a distance but just like Ikea, as soon as you get closer you see how cheap it is and that it's already falling apart. Tudor House before refurbishment was going to be closed as a museum and only opened for paying functions until protestors and a petition intervened, the changes the seacity museum brought to the listed civic aka removing the steps and installing those ridiculous glass boxes on top and recent talks of selling some of our art collection are just a few examples of how Southampton city council does not care for the city's past. I commented recently on the extension to Westquay and wouldn't it be a much better idea to turn the Pirelli land into another park so the city has even more green space, would make a great space to see the ships and would also enhance the walls behind it. But no, let's build more shops and fast food restaurants and smother the historic walls behind even taller concrete eyesores.
I agree that the idea of developing the area and reconnecting the walls is a great idea but the style of building is not very sympathetic and looks more like a cheap out of town office building. And the sculpture is hideous. Why when a city like Southampton has so much history would you want to install something that looks like an oversized car aerial that has no relevance to the city. I know this is just a computer design at present but when Tudor House was reopened, the main exhibit was the building itself. The Bargate needs sympathetic materials and surroundings and not some modern eyesore to detract you from it. I've always thought how lovely the Bargate looked before the 1930's development when High Street and Above Bar were a lot narrower because the buildings were in line with the bargate. And the little squares like Pembroke Square looked great. This created a busy shopping area and made the Bargate look grand and impressive because it wasn't left stood on its own looking lost. The above plans are a good compromise to what we once had and if it ever goes ahead it would be better than what we have but the designs of the buildings and choice of 'street furniture' would have to change. I agree with the post above that Southampton does not use our heritage to attract people to the city. It never has done and I doubt it ever will. Councillors seem to be focused on making Southampton look shiny, modern and new with ultra-modern buildings and sweep away the good points of the past and our heritage with it. The planners in Southampton are like Ikea really, looks modern from a distance but just like Ikea, as soon as you get closer you see how cheap it is and that it's already falling apart. Tudor House before refurbishment was going to be closed as a museum and only opened for paying functions until protestors and a petition intervened, the changes the seacity museum brought to the listed civic aka removing the steps and installing those ridiculous glass boxes on top and recent talks of selling some of our art collection are just a few examples of how Southampton city council does not care for the city's past. I commented recently on the extension to Westquay and wouldn't it be a much better idea to turn the Pirelli land into another park so the city has even more green space, would make a great space to see the ships and would also enhance the walls behind it. But no, let's build more shops and fast food restaurants and smother the historic walls behind even taller concrete eyesores. sotonboy84
  • Score: 0

11:26am Fri 14 Dec 12

sotonboy84 says...

alan.of.eastleigh wrote:
The Wrinkled Retainer wrote: So part of the "Grand Vision" for Bargate Square is to introduce an entirely random sculpture on the northern side to help obscure the view of the Bargate? This should help enhance the setting no end as the two pound shops, Burger King and a mostly empty shopping centre currently do such a wonderful job of providing a setting for Bargate Square. At least it will help obscure the years of neglect. Will part of the scheme pay for the monument to be maintained? Or will the comedy paving just draw attention to the fact that the city council is more interested in introducing a "theme park" vision to the cities heritage, rather than caring for the heritage it already has? If you visit York and Chester they use the town walls to attract visitors. Southampton (third only to those two cities in its existing circuit of mediaeval walls) uses the town walls as a backdrop for shopping centres, a comedy German market and a frozen puddle in a marquee.
Given that I never even spotted the sculpture until you pointed out - probably not a concern.
You might notice the scupture when it's 40 foot up in the air. Just so you know, the above picture is not to scale so if the plans go ahead, that area of town will be a little bit bigger than the picture.
[quote][p][bold]alan.of.eastleigh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Wrinkled Retainer[/bold] wrote: So part of the "Grand Vision" for Bargate Square is to introduce an entirely random sculpture on the northern side to help obscure the view of the Bargate? This should help enhance the setting no end as the two pound shops, Burger King and a mostly empty shopping centre currently do such a wonderful job of providing a setting for Bargate Square. At least it will help obscure the years of neglect. Will part of the scheme pay for the monument to be maintained? Or will the comedy paving just draw attention to the fact that the city council is more interested in introducing a "theme park" vision to the cities heritage, rather than caring for the heritage it already has? If you visit York and Chester they use the town walls to attract visitors. Southampton (third only to those two cities in its existing circuit of mediaeval walls) uses the town walls as a backdrop for shopping centres, a comedy German market and a frozen puddle in a marquee.[/p][/quote]Given that I never even spotted the sculpture until you pointed out - probably not a concern.[/p][/quote]You might notice the scupture when it's 40 foot up in the air. Just so you know, the above picture is not to scale so if the plans go ahead, that area of town will be a little bit bigger than the picture. sotonboy84
  • Score: 0

11:40am Fri 14 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists loosehead
  • Score: 0

12:04pm Fri 14 Dec 12

andysaints007 says...

The Music Man wrote:
that's the worst artist impression I have ever seen. It could work if it looks good - but THAT looks embarrassing
You truly are a prize pratt - it's just a picture ! No need to get your knickers in a twist
[quote][p][bold]The Music Man[/bold] wrote: that's the worst artist impression I have ever seen. It could work if it looks good - but THAT looks embarrassing[/p][/quote]You truly are a prize pratt - it's just a picture ! No need to get your knickers in a twist andysaints007
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt
on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc
le%20Map_tcm46-33109
5.pdf
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Fri 14 Dec 12

kingnotail says...

Lord Ikea wrote:
The Artists Impression of the Bargate forgot to show the stupid German Market.
'Stupid' German market? The xmas German market is one of the only none-crap things about Southampton.
[quote][p][bold]Lord Ikea[/bold] wrote: The Artists Impression of the Bargate forgot to show the stupid German Market.[/p][/quote]'Stupid' German market? The xmas German market is one of the only none-crap things about Southampton. kingnotail
  • Score: 0

1:03pm Fri 14 Dec 12

kingnotail says...

gazdance wrote:
Moan moan moan. Seriously, the Echo moaning brigade are like clockwork and entirely predictable in their responses.

Let's never, ever have any vision for the future at all. Seems that the only way to keep people happy is to change nothing at all.

Every plan I've seen to regenerate Southampton is a step in the right direction. This is all part of a long-term plan. Anyone who has seen the overall, city wide "vision" will be able to see that it is better than what we have now.

Southampton, as it stands, can best be summed up as a missed opportunity. Years and years of bad planning and seemingly no forward thinking have left the city centre disjointed and traffic dominates.

These forward looking ideas are great. Who knows how many will actually come to pass but I for one am pleased that at least someone, somewhere, it seems, is giving it some thought.
Well said. Ideas like this can only benefit this terminally mediocre city.
[quote][p][bold]gazdance[/bold] wrote: Moan moan moan. Seriously, the Echo moaning brigade are like clockwork and entirely predictable in their responses. Let's never, ever have any vision for the future at all. Seems that the only way to keep people happy is to change nothing at all. Every plan I've seen to regenerate Southampton is a step in the right direction. This is all part of a long-term plan. Anyone who has seen the overall, city wide "vision" will be able to see that it is better than what we have now. Southampton, as it stands, can best be summed up as a missed opportunity. Years and years of bad planning and seemingly no forward thinking have left the city centre disjointed and traffic dominates. These forward looking ideas are great. Who knows how many will actually come to pass but I for one am pleased that at least someone, somewhere, it seems, is giving it some thought.[/p][/quote]Well said. Ideas like this can only benefit this terminally mediocre city. kingnotail
  • Score: 0

1:45pm Fri 14 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc

le%20Map_tcm46-33109

5.pdf
So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct?
You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well.
Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct? You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well. Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh? loosehead
  • Score: 0

2:04pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Lord Ikea says...

Just had a thought. The new wall could be built with genuine materials by knocking down other parts of the walls and then re-using the stones. Cost very little and then would get the old walls out of the way for new flats, shops, etc. etc.
Just had a thought. The new wall could be built with genuine materials by knocking down other parts of the walls and then re-using the stones. Cost very little and then would get the old walls out of the way for new flats, shops, etc. etc. Lord Ikea
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Fri 14 Dec 12

bigfella777 says...

loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc


le%20Map_tcm46-33109


5.pdf
So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct?
You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well.
Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?
Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct? You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well. Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?[/p][/quote]Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal. bigfella777
  • Score: 0

2:13pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc


le%20Map_tcm46-33109


5.pdf
So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct?
You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well.
Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?
I'm just going on things I've read from the council and they still call it at most a street, so maybe not a road but certainly a street, it still allows temporary vehicular access for things such as the German market and the usual weekly market but yes, at normal times, it is fully pedestrianised EXCEPT from it also being a cycle route, if you look at the 2012 cycle map I posted a link to, you shall see that it is marked on there as a "quiet" off-road cycle route, part of national route 23, of course the Council have been ever so considerate and forgot to put signs up to state this fact.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct? You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well. Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?[/p][/quote]I'm just going on things I've read from the council and they still call it at most a street, so maybe not a road but certainly a street, it still allows temporary vehicular access for things such as the German market and the usual weekly market but yes, at normal times, it is fully pedestrianised EXCEPT from it also being a cycle route, if you look at the 2012 cycle map I posted a link to, you shall see that it is marked on there as a "quiet" off-road cycle route, part of national route 23, of course the Council have been ever so considerate and forgot to put signs up to state this fact. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

3:07pm Fri 14 Dec 12

miltonarcher says...

gazdance wrote:
Moan moan moan. Seriously, the Echo moaning brigade are like clockwork and entirely predictable in their responses.

Let's never, ever have any vision for the future at all. Seems that the only way to keep people happy is to change nothing at all.

Every plan I've seen to regenerate Southampton is a step in the right direction. This is all part of a long-term plan. Anyone who has seen the overall, city wide "vision" will be able to see that it is better than what we have now.

Southampton, as it stands, can best be summed up as a missed opportunity. Years and years of bad planning and seemingly no forward thinking have left the city centre disjointed and traffic dominates.

These forward looking ideas are great. Who knows how many will actually come to pass but I for one am pleased that at least someone, somewhere, it seems, is giving it some thought.
Phew, I thought it was just me, how come this site attracts so many negative posters? What a downcast, miserable life they must lead.
[quote][p][bold]gazdance[/bold] wrote: Moan moan moan. Seriously, the Echo moaning brigade are like clockwork and entirely predictable in their responses. Let's never, ever have any vision for the future at all. Seems that the only way to keep people happy is to change nothing at all. Every plan I've seen to regenerate Southampton is a step in the right direction. This is all part of a long-term plan. Anyone who has seen the overall, city wide "vision" will be able to see that it is better than what we have now. Southampton, as it stands, can best be summed up as a missed opportunity. Years and years of bad planning and seemingly no forward thinking have left the city centre disjointed and traffic dominates. These forward looking ideas are great. Who knows how many will actually come to pass but I for one am pleased that at least someone, somewhere, it seems, is giving it some thought.[/p][/quote]Phew, I thought it was just me, how come this site attracts so many negative posters? What a downcast, miserable life they must lead. miltonarcher
  • Score: 0

3:33pm Fri 14 Dec 12

loosehead says...

bigfella777 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt



on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc



le%20Map_tcm46-33109



5.pdf
So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct?
You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well.
Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?
Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.
Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong?
I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way.
just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you?
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct? You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well. Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?[/p][/quote]Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.[/p][/quote]Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong? I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way. just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you? loosehead
  • Score: 0

4:42pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Rob444 says...

We really don't need the foreign market, with its evil smelling cookery, cluttering up the precinct. It is often quite a struggle to get through because of the congestion. I've started to bypass the precinct by going along Portland Terrace, it's quicker and less stressful.
We really don't need the foreign market, with its evil smelling cookery, cluttering up the precinct. It is often quite a struggle to get through because of the congestion. I've started to bypass the precinct by going along Portland Terrace, it's quicker and less stressful. Rob444
  • Score: 0

5:12pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Rownhams resident says...

A good starting point around the Bargate area would be to get rid of the fast food vans - hardly in keeping with an ancient monument!
A good starting point around the Bargate area would be to get rid of the fast food vans - hardly in keeping with an ancient monument! Rownhams resident
  • Score: 0

5:21pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Linesman says...

Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Obviously you did not bother to read the article.

The development would depend of Government Development Funding.

This is not a branch of Southampton City Council.
[quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Obviously you did not bother to read the article. The development would depend of Government Development Funding. This is not a branch of Southampton City Council. Linesman
  • Score: 0

5:44pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
bigfella777 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt




on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc




le%20Map_tcm46-33109




5.pdf
So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct?
You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well.
Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?
Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.
Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong?
I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way.
just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you?
Mr Loose screw in the head, please, look at the 2012 map of cycle routes in Southampton and look at the "precinct", pretty easy to find since it joins onto Above bar street and then look at the colour of it and then match it to the key in the bottom left corner, then tell us that it's not a cycle route. Again, here's the map for your reference.
http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct? You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well. Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?[/p][/quote]Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.[/p][/quote]Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong? I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way. just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you?[/p][/quote]Mr Loose screw in the head, please, look at the 2012 map of cycle routes in Southampton and look at the "precinct", pretty easy to find since it joins onto Above bar street and then look at the colour of it and then match it to the key in the bottom left corner, then tell us that it's not a cycle route. Again, here's the map for your reference. http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Fri 14 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
bigfella777 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt





on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc





le%20Map_tcm46-33109





5.pdf
So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct?
You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well.
Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?
Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.
Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong?
I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way.
just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you?
Mr Loose screw in the head, please, look at the 2012 map of cycle routes in Southampton and look at the "precinct", pretty easy to find since it joins onto Above bar street and then look at the colour of it and then match it to the key in the bottom left corner, then tell us that it's not a cycle route. Again, here's the map for your reference.
http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf
2012 take a step back say to just after the precincts construction & show me where the cycle route is on any plans?
I don't call you Ginger Nuts or any other names so why call me Mr Loose screw in the head,?
I wasn't loose screw when I was supporting you on cycling was I?
I don't agree with cyclists riding through a pedestrian area if you think it's right then why is it called pedestrianised as you do not walk through do you?
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct? You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well. Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?[/p][/quote]Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.[/p][/quote]Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong? I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way. just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you?[/p][/quote]Mr Loose screw in the head, please, look at the 2012 map of cycle routes in Southampton and look at the "precinct", pretty easy to find since it joins onto Above bar street and then look at the colour of it and then match it to the key in the bottom left corner, then tell us that it's not a cycle route. Again, here's the map for your reference. http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]2012 take a step back say to just after the precincts construction & show me where the cycle route is on any plans? I don't call you Ginger Nuts or any other names so why call me Mr Loose screw in the head,? I wasn't loose screw when I was supporting you on cycling was I? I don't agree with cyclists riding through a pedestrian area if you think it's right then why is it called pedestrianised as you do not walk through do you? loosehead
  • Score: 0

6:09pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
bigfella777 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.
Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it.
I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there.
why don't they dismount & walk through there?
I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct?
No & nor is it okay for cyclists
Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here;
http://www.southampt






on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc






le%20Map_tcm46-33109






5.pdf
So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct?
You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well.
Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?
Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.
Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong?
I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way.
just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you?
Mr Loose screw in the head, please, look at the 2012 map of cycle routes in Southampton and look at the "precinct", pretty easy to find since it joins onto Above bar street and then look at the colour of it and then match it to the key in the bottom left corner, then tell us that it's not a cycle route. Again, here's the map for your reference.
http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf
2012 take a step back say to just after the precincts construction & show me where the cycle route is on any plans?
I don't call you Ginger Nuts or any other names so why call me Mr Loose screw in the head,?
I wasn't loose screw when I was supporting you on cycling was I?
I don't agree with cyclists riding through a pedestrian area if you think it's right then why is it called pedestrianised as you do not walk through do you?
Sorry if I offended you, I was just playing with words, as people do, are you able to provide evidence that it was ever illegal to cycle through the Above bar precinct as it's known as?
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Though I don't agree that cyclists should be banned from the precinct I do however believe many who cycle through it should slow down to at most 5mph which is about jogging pace for the average person, they're already supposed to be going no faster than 15mph along there anyway due to it being an off-road section of NCN cycle route 23.[/p][/quote]Ginger the precinct is supposed to be pedestrianised & at no time was it a cycle way. It's illegal to ride a bicycle on pavements so as the precinct is one big pavement it's illegal to ride a bike through it. I've seen people hit by cyclists walking through there. why don't they dismount & walk through there? I use to ride a Harley Davidson & as it's got only two wheels is it okay for me to ride it through the Precinct? No & nor is it okay for cyclists[/p][/quote]Actually it's a pedestrianised road, it is legally still classed as a road and it is NOT illegal to cycle through the precinct, otherwise it wouldn't be marked on maps as a cycle route, so yes, it is ok in the eyes of the law to ride a pedal cycle through there but not a motorcycle. The map that shows it as a cycle route is here; http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]So if your saying that right through the seated area right through the PRECINCT it's still classified as a road why can't cars & motor bikes ride/drive through the precinct? You harp on about your rights on the road yet you want more you want to cut through a pedestrianised area as well. Yes down by the Bargate where the buses drive through I can accept that's a road but through the precinct that's been in existence for over 30years your saying it's still a road are you haviong a laugh?[/p][/quote]Loosehead your wrong as usual you old crank, I cycle through there and it is perfectly legal.[/p][/quote]Really so the cyclist that was stopped by a police officer was doing no wrong? I'm nearly 56 & I remember this being pedestrianised I also remember before when the Carnival use to go through there but at no time did it say it was a precinct & a cycle way. just because no one has actually been arrested doesn't mean it's right, next you'll be saying it's legal to ride on a pavement because so many cyclists do & don't get arrested won't you?[/p][/quote]Mr Loose screw in the head, please, look at the 2012 map of cycle routes in Southampton and look at the "precinct", pretty easy to find since it joins onto Above bar street and then look at the colour of it and then match it to the key in the bottom left corner, then tell us that it's not a cycle route. Again, here's the map for your reference. http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/Images/Cyc le%20Map_tcm46-33109 5.pdf[/p][/quote]2012 take a step back say to just after the precincts construction & show me where the cycle route is on any plans? I don't call you Ginger Nuts or any other names so why call me Mr Loose screw in the head,? I wasn't loose screw when I was supporting you on cycling was I? I don't agree with cyclists riding through a pedestrian area if you think it's right then why is it called pedestrianised as you do not walk through do you?[/p][/quote]Sorry if I offended you, I was just playing with words, as people do, are you able to provide evidence that it was ever illegal to cycle through the Above bar precinct as it's known as? Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

7:12pm Fri 14 Dec 12

bazzeroz says...

Sounds like a plan. Just make sure the contract goes to a BRITISH company!!
Sounds like a plan. Just make sure the contract goes to a BRITISH company!! bazzeroz
  • Score: 0

7:33pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Avery T Decanary says...

Linesman wrote:
Avery T Decanary wrote:
So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information.

This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose.

One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go.

And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct.

German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt.

I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.
Obviously you did not bother to read the article.

The development would depend of Government Development Funding.

This is not a branch of Southampton City Council.
Obviously you did not read my post. I asked how much had been spent on drawing up the plans and that the tourist information service is being shut down. And that this poor excuse of a council should sort out today's problems before embarking on pie in the sky visions of tomorrow. I belong to no political party and have no political affiliations, but I recognise a bunch on con artists when I see them. They lied and cheated to the staff about saving jobs, getting pay rises etc, and now jobs are going. They knew that when electioneering that the budget would be cut but stuck their fingers in their ears and shouted la la la. Now the truth is hitting home and this sorry bunch of ineptness is crying foul. Sort today out council and do the city some service. You have been in power since May, and so far all I have seen and heard are lies - your lies.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avery T Decanary[/bold] wrote: So the council want to spend money on this plan. But noone outside Southampton will know because this same council is to close Tourist Information. This same council has followers on here constantly bleating on about how the Sea City museum was a waste of money. And this isn't I suppose. One of the few routes from the east of the city to the west (even if it is only for buses) appears to go. And I see from the artists impression that cyclists will still be allowed to weave their dangerous way through the precinct. German Market - well it has hardly been German for a few years now, just local vendors hawking tatt. I think the council should be sorting out the problems of today and tomorrow rather than a pipe dream for the future. How much has been spent on this 'vision' already.[/p][/quote]Obviously you did not bother to read the article. The development would depend of Government Development Funding. This is not a branch of Southampton City Council.[/p][/quote]Obviously you did not read my post. I asked how much had been spent on drawing up the plans and that the tourist information service is being shut down. And that this poor excuse of a council should sort out today's problems before embarking on pie in the sky visions of tomorrow. I belong to no political party and have no political affiliations, but I recognise a bunch on con artists when I see them. They lied and cheated to the staff about saving jobs, getting pay rises etc, and now jobs are going. They knew that when electioneering that the budget would be cut but stuck their fingers in their ears and shouted la la la. Now the truth is hitting home and this sorry bunch of ineptness is crying foul. Sort today out council and do the city some service. You have been in power since May, and so far all I have seen and heard are lies - your lies. Avery T Decanary
  • Score: 0

7:48pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Young Greybeard says...

Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on.
Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through?
If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves
Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on. Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through? If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves Young Greybeard
  • Score: 0

8:00pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

Young Greybeard wrote:
Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on.
Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through?
If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves
Most likely true, personally I think it would be cool to see trams in Southampton again rather than only seeing them running around Southampton in old photos would also be more environmentally friendly than buses since trams generally run off electricity, Southampton City Council boast about trying to make the city "green", a tram system being put back in would be a good step forward.
[quote][p][bold]Young Greybeard[/bold] wrote: Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on. Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through? If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves[/p][/quote]Most likely true, personally I think it would be cool to see trams in Southampton again rather than only seeing them running around Southampton in old photos would also be more environmentally friendly than buses since trams generally run off electricity, Southampton City Council boast about trying to make the city "green", a tram system being put back in would be a good step forward. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

8:20pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Of the Ilk says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Young Greybeard wrote:
Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on.
Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through?
If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves
Most likely true, personally I think it would be cool to see trams in Southampton again rather than only seeing them running around Southampton in old photos would also be more environmentally friendly than buses since trams generally run off electricity, Southampton City Council boast about trying to make the city "green", a tram system being put back in would be a good step forward.
If you are going to reintroduce trams (a good idea), then the road system has to be sorted out properly as the cost of moving the trams tracks would be prohibative. That is why trams went in the first place (and trolley buses - I used to love the ones in London and Bournemouth)
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Young Greybeard[/bold] wrote: Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on. Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through? If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves[/p][/quote]Most likely true, personally I think it would be cool to see trams in Southampton again rather than only seeing them running around Southampton in old photos would also be more environmentally friendly than buses since trams generally run off electricity, Southampton City Council boast about trying to make the city "green", a tram system being put back in would be a good step forward.[/p][/quote]If you are going to reintroduce trams (a good idea), then the road system has to be sorted out properly as the cost of moving the trams tracks would be prohibative. That is why trams went in the first place (and trolley buses - I used to love the ones in London and Bournemouth) Of the Ilk
  • Score: 0

8:33pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Bowmore says...

I think this would be a good idea. Many European cities rebuilt their historic centers destroyed during the second world war in a way that to a casual observer it is difficult to tell which are ancient buildings and which have been completely rebuilt, so it should be possible to reconstruct linking sections of wall to fill the gaps that blend in with the existing walls.

Also pedestrianizing Bargate Street linking Above Bar with the new Quays development and on to Mayflower park would greatly enhance the center of Southampton.
I think this would be a good idea. Many European cities rebuilt their historic centers destroyed during the second world war in a way that to a casual observer it is difficult to tell which are ancient buildings and which have been completely rebuilt, so it should be possible to reconstruct linking sections of wall to fill the gaps that blend in with the existing walls. Also pedestrianizing Bargate Street linking Above Bar with the new Quays development and on to Mayflower park would greatly enhance the center of Southampton. Bowmore
  • Score: 0

8:47pm Fri 14 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Young Greybeard wrote:
Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on.
Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through?
If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves
Most likely true, personally I think it would be cool to see trams in Southampton again rather than only seeing them running around Southampton in old photos would also be more environmentally friendly than buses since trams generally run off electricity, Southampton City Council boast about trying to make the city "green", a tram system being put back in would be a good step forward.
I remember the old tram tracks.
buckled wheels twisted ankles no sorry don't want trams but I was very disappointed when the then Tory Government refused permission for Cllr Alan Whiteheads proposed Monorail.
Electric,no tracks on the ground going out to Lordshill one side & Weston/Thornhill the other.
less need for private buses & a quick Eco friendly public transport service.
If this council reapplied for it I'm sure in todays "GREEN" world the Government would look favourably on projects like this
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Young Greybeard[/bold] wrote: Not read all of the posts as there seems to be some argument about cycling going on. Back on topic and a question. Was it not the City Council who had the curtain walls either side of the Bargate demolished in the 1930 so that buses could go around it rather than the specially adapted tram that once ran through? If I am correct then perhaps the Council should consider this a 'repair' rather than a development and fund it themselves[/p][/quote]Most likely true, personally I think it would be cool to see trams in Southampton again rather than only seeing them running around Southampton in old photos would also be more environmentally friendly than buses since trams generally run off electricity, Southampton City Council boast about trying to make the city "green", a tram system being put back in would be a good step forward.[/p][/quote]I remember the old tram tracks. buckled wheels twisted ankles no sorry don't want trams but I was very disappointed when the then Tory Government refused permission for Cllr Alan Whiteheads proposed Monorail. Electric,no tracks on the ground going out to Lordshill one side & Weston/Thornhill the other. less need for private buses & a quick Eco friendly public transport service. If this council reapplied for it I'm sure in todays "GREEN" world the Government would look favourably on projects like this loosehead
  • Score: 0

10:22pm Fri 14 Dec 12

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
To make it look authentic they would have to build the walls exactly the same as the city walls & the Bargate construct or it will look awful.
pedestrianise West Bargate?
Yes I like pedestrian areas but we need the roads to bring the cars & buses to the city car parks & the shoppers to our city don't we?
I agree this would be a project our own Archeology Department would be good at over seeing.
IF they can do this ( Bargate & Walls) Well done Labour.
So did you see the words Flats?
Some developer wants to build flats & is willing to subsidise the wall building? Is this a done deal?
That some thing that I have bought up many times in the pass, is to rebuild the walls, close it off to motorise traffic, and inside the walls build it at a time period era say Queen Elizabeth I era, and you would have a A1 tourist attraction some thing that would compeat with Europe.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: To make it look authentic they would have to build the walls exactly the same as the city walls & the Bargate construct or it will look awful. pedestrianise West Bargate? Yes I like pedestrian areas but we need the roads to bring the cars & buses to the city car parks & the shoppers to our city don't we? I agree this would be a project our own Archeology Department would be good at over seeing. IF they can do this ( Bargate & Walls) Well done Labour. So did you see the words Flats? Some developer wants to build flats & is willing to subsidise the wall building? Is this a done deal?[/p][/quote]That some thing that I have bought up many times in the pass, is to rebuild the walls, close it off to motorise traffic, and inside the walls build it at a time period era say Queen Elizabeth I era, and you would have a A1 tourist attraction some thing that would compeat with Europe. southy
  • Score: 0

10:27am Sat 15 Dec 12

Zeo says...

Monorail monorail monorail and a ice rink
Monorail monorail monorail and a ice rink Zeo
  • Score: 0

2:45pm Sat 15 Dec 12

bazzeroz says...

Zeo wrote:
Monorail monorail monorail and a ice rink
With flying pigs!
[quote][p][bold]Zeo[/bold] wrote: Monorail monorail monorail and a ice rink[/p][/quote]With flying pigs! bazzeroz
  • Score: 0

2:45pm Sat 15 Dec 12

kingnotail says...

Rob444 wrote:
We really don't need the foreign market, with its evil smelling cookery, cluttering up the precinct. It is often quite a struggle to get through because of the congestion. I've started to bypass the precinct by going along Portland Terrace, it's quicker and less stressful.
Spoken like a true stuck-in-the-1950s sotonian.
[quote][p][bold]Rob444[/bold] wrote: We really don't need the foreign market, with its evil smelling cookery, cluttering up the precinct. It is often quite a struggle to get through because of the congestion. I've started to bypass the precinct by going along Portland Terrace, it's quicker and less stressful.[/p][/quote]Spoken like a true stuck-in-the-1950s sotonian. kingnotail
  • Score: 0

8:53am Sun 16 Dec 12

Zeo says...

bazzeroz wrote:
Zeo wrote:
Monorail monorail monorail and a ice rink
With flying pigs!
Sounds even better with them ;) lol
[quote][p][bold]bazzeroz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zeo[/bold] wrote: Monorail monorail monorail and a ice rink[/p][/quote]With flying pigs![/p][/quote]Sounds even better with them ;) lol Zeo
  • Score: 0

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