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Billionaire's Titanic II showcasing delayed (From Daily Echo)
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Billionaire Professor Clive Palmer's Titanic II showcasing in Southampton delayed
5:00am Saturday 29th December 2012 in News
By Julian Robinson, Eastleigh Chief Reporter
Billionaire's Titanic II showcasing delayed
A BILLIONAIRE’S plan to hold a special reception in Southampton showcasing a proposed Titanic II liner has been delayed until 2013.
Australian industrial magnate Professor Clive Palmer had hoped to stage a breakfast event at the city’s Grand Cafe this month to publicise his dream of building a full-scale replica of the ill-fated ship.
Similar events were due to have taken place on the east coast of the US.
But now his Blue Star Line shipping company has pushed the Southampton date back to March 5 because of the recent devastation caused in New York by Hurricane Sandy.
Prof Palmer said of the event: “Titanic began her ill-fated journey from the city’s port and more than 500 Southampton families were tragically touched by the 1912 disaster.
“While looking ahead to the exciting Titanic II project we shall commemorate the past by paying tribute to the courage of passengers, crew and artisans who contributed so much to the ship of dreams.”
Titanic II is scheduled to set sail from Southampton to New York on her maiden passenger voyage in 2016.
In April, 2012, Blue Star Line signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Chinese company CSC Jinling to build Titanic II, while plans for the ship have been commenced by Finnish-based marine design and engineering company Deltamarin.
As previously reported, it is already known the new vessel will mirror her predecessor’s dimensions, measuring 885 feet long and more than 173 feet high, although she will be slightly wider to improve stability.
The project aims to construct a 40,000-ton copy of the White Star ship which sank with the loss of 1,500 lives on her first Atlantic crossing from Southampton to New York after striking an iceberg.
Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations.
Comments(26)
southy
says...
10:34am Sat 29 Dec 12
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Cyber__Fug
says...
11:10am Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:"Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations."
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Just in case you don't understand that bit; let me help you.
Its a replica that is being built using modern technology, ie using up to date procedures and materials so that is can sail and comply with modern day regulations. Therefore he will not require "1200 hot rivitors".
phil maccavity
says...
11:12am Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:Read the last paragraph of the report.
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
There is a clue there!!
Anyway it is all a bit hypothetical.
Chances of this project happening? About the same as TUSC coming to power
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:45am Sat 29 Dec 12
southy
says...
12:04pm Sat 29 Dec 12
Cyber__Fug wrote:Its not even a replica, its just the same basic design, its more of a successor.
southy wrote:"Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations."
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Just in case you don't understand that bit; let me help you.
Its a replica that is being built using modern technology, ie using up to date procedures and materials so that is can sail and comply with modern day regulations. Therefore he will not require "1200 hot rivitors".
Clue is in the name, if its a replica it would carry the name Titanic and not Titanic II.
Torchie1
says...
12:09pm Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:Having gone full circle you have answered your own question about riveters, they are in the dustbin of history along with all of the other historical skills that no-one has any use for today.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Its not even a replica, its just the same basic design, its more of a successor.
southy wrote:"Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations."
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Just in case you don't understand that bit; let me help you.
Its a replica that is being built using modern technology, ie using up to date procedures and materials so that is can sail and comply with modern day regulations. Therefore he will not require "1200 hot rivitors".
Clue is in the name, if its a replica it would carry the name Titanic and not Titanic II.
southy
says...
1:07pm Sat 29 Dec 12
phil maccavity wrote:Well thats good news for us then Phil, i been told that the steel plates are being cut and shape all ready
southy wrote:Read the last paragraph of the report.
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
There is a clue there!!
Anyway it is all a bit hypothetical.
Chances of this project happening? About the same as TUSC coming to power
southy
says...
1:14pm Sat 29 Dec 12
Torchie1 wrote:The thing is with rivited ships to welded plates ships, is the rivited ships can take a lot more punishment.
southy wrote:Having gone full circle you have answered your own question about riveters, they are in the dustbin of history along with all of the other historical skills that no-one has any use for today.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Its not even a replica, its just the same basic design, its more of a successor.
southy wrote:"Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations."
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Just in case you don't understand that bit; let me help you.
Its a replica that is being built using modern technology, ie using up to date procedures and materials so that is can sail and comply with modern day regulations. Therefore he will not require "1200 hot rivitors".
Clue is in the name, if its a replica it would carry the name Titanic and not Titanic II.
I have seen what happens to a welded ship
Torchie1
says...
1:26pm Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:Virtually every vessel afloat today is of welded construction and simple statistics indicate that failures will occur but this isn't a reason to slip back to 19th century practices. Let's not forget that that the Titanic sank with a riveted hull which couldn't take the punishment that was meted out to it. I won't begin to confuse you with steel embrittlement.
Torchie1 wrote:The thing is with rivited ships to welded plates ships, is the rivited ships can take a lot more punishment.
southy wrote:Having gone full circle you have answered your own question about riveters, they are in the dustbin of history along with all of the other historical skills that no-one has any use for today.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Its not even a replica, its just the same basic design, its more of a successor.
southy wrote:"Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations."
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Just in case you don't understand that bit; let me help you.
Its a replica that is being built using modern technology, ie using up to date procedures and materials so that is can sail and comply with modern day regulations. Therefore he will not require "1200 hot rivitors".
Clue is in the name, if its a replica it would carry the name Titanic and not Titanic II.
I have seen what happens to a welded ship
elvisimo
says...
2:00pm Sat 29 Dec 12
freemantlegirl2 wrote:Agreed. Almost as tasteless as titanic the musical.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
southy
says...
2:08pm Sat 29 Dec 12
Torchie1 wrote:If you had gone deep sea in your life then you will know that Rivited ships are much more prefered than welded ships to the seamen, rivited ships have give and take they are more plyable, welded ships are not they are more ridged and are more likely to fail.
southy wrote:Virtually every vessel afloat today is of welded construction and simple statistics indicate that failures will occur but this isn't a reason to slip back to 19th century practices. Let's not forget that that the Titanic sank with a riveted hull which couldn't take the punishment that was meted out to it. I won't begin to confuse you with steel embrittlement.
Torchie1 wrote:The thing is with rivited ships to welded plates ships, is the rivited ships can take a lot more punishment.
southy wrote:Having gone full circle you have answered your own question about riveters, they are in the dustbin of history along with all of the other historical skills that no-one has any use for today.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Its not even a replica, its just the same basic design, its more of a successor.
southy wrote:"Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations."
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Just in case you don't understand that bit; let me help you.
Its a replica that is being built using modern technology, ie using up to date procedures and materials so that is can sail and comply with modern day regulations. Therefore he will not require "1200 hot rivitors".
Clue is in the name, if its a replica it would carry the name Titanic and not Titanic II.
I have seen what happens to a welded ship
The reason ships are not still rivited is because of quickness, its quicker to weld plates than it is to rivit, and welding means less people needed to build a ship, 1 welding team is 3 men, 1 rivit team is 8 men.
But I do not expect you to really know the difference about all.
southy
says...
2:22pm Sat 29 Dec 12
The Titanic more than likely would not of sunk if the right rivits was used, but because there was some wrong rivits those rivits pop allowing more water in than the pumps could handle, so endding up filling up the flood compartments and flowing over the top into the next compartment.
Stephen J
says...
2:27pm Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:Even if it was possible, a riveted hull would cost between 8 and 10 times as much as a welded one, and then it would be highly unlikely that any classification society would approve a riveted hull of that size for passenger-carrying, deep sea use. Welding is therefore the only practical option. What made you assume there would be a need for riveters?
Torchie1 wrote:If you had gone deep sea in your life then you will know that Rivited ships are much more prefered than welded ships to the seamen, rivited ships have give and take they are more plyable, welded ships are not they are more ridged and are more likely to fail.
southy wrote:Virtually every vessel afloat today is of welded construction and simple statistics indicate that failures will occur but this isn't a reason to slip back to 19th century practices. Let's not forget that that the Titanic sank with a riveted hull which couldn't take the punishment that was meted out to it. I won't begin to confuse you with steel embrittlement.
Torchie1 wrote:The thing is with rivited ships to welded plates ships, is the rivited ships can take a lot more punishment.
southy wrote:Having gone full circle you have answered your own question about riveters, they are in the dustbin of history along with all of the other historical skills that no-one has any use for today.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Its not even a replica, its just the same basic design, its more of a successor.
southy wrote:"Titanic II, which will be powered by diesel engines, have a larger rudder and be equipped with a series of bow thrusters, cannot be an exact replica of the original vessel as she will have to meet stringent 21st century regulations."
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
Just in case you don't understand that bit; let me help you.
Its a replica that is being built using modern technology, ie using up to date procedures and materials so that is can sail and comply with modern day regulations. Therefore he will not require "1200 hot rivitors".
Clue is in the name, if its a replica it would carry the name Titanic and not Titanic II.
I have seen what happens to a welded ship
The reason ships are not still rivited is because of quickness, its quicker to weld plates than it is to rivit, and welding means less people needed to build a ship, 1 welding team is 3 men, 1 rivit team is 8 men.
But I do not expect you to really know the difference about all.
Cyber__Fug
says...
2:30pm Sat 29 Dec 12
phil maccavity
says...
2:45pm Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:Southy,
phil maccavity wrote:Well thats good news for us then Phil, i been told that the steel plates are being cut and shape all ready
southy wrote:Read the last paragraph of the report.
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
There is a clue there!!
Anyway it is all a bit hypothetical.
Chances of this project happening? About the same as TUSC coming to power
I reckon you should think again about using information from this so called 'font of all knowledge' who apparently provides you with so much of your misguided tosh.
The MOU with the CSC Jinling Shipyard was signed in April and the design detail has yet to be finalised so no actual work has started.
The announcement of final plans have already been delayed and the new date is February 26th in New York
southy
says...
2:53pm Sat 29 Dec 12
Cyber__Fug wrote:Cyber it would be considered, the only real thing that stops rivited ships being made to-day is the cost of building one, and the time it takes to build one.
Being involved in shipping, including building and repair for the past 25 years I cant say that I have ever heard any one express a preference over this (riveting).... I have also just checked with a friend of mine who is a Technical Director of an multinational shipping company (and a fellow of Rina) who has said that even if riveting was cheaper it would not be considered in today's construction due to the current advanced processes and legislation surrounding safety.
The beauty of a rivited ship is that when a ship is being twisted in a storm, the plates have movement room, a welded ship plates do not and would give a lot quicker.
The trouble with Technical Directors is that they don't go to sea, they are land lock.
You talk to any seaman that as served on both rivited and welded ships and ask them and they will come back with the answer give them a rivited ship.
southy
says...
2:56pm Sat 29 Dec 12
phil maccavity wrote:plates are all ready being cut, this receptions was to announce the laying down of the keel date.
southy wrote:Southy,
phil maccavity wrote:Well thats good news for us then Phil, i been told that the steel plates are being cut and shape all ready
southy wrote:Read the last paragraph of the report.
freemantlegirl2 wrote:I like to know where he going to find 1200 hot rivitors, theres no one left now that can hot rivit at the required speed.
Am I the only one who thinks this is ghoulish, insensitive and utterly senseless?
There is a clue there!!
Anyway it is all a bit hypothetical.
Chances of this project happening? About the same as TUSC coming to power
I reckon you should think again about using information from this so called 'font of all knowledge' who apparently provides you with so much of your misguided tosh.
The MOU with the CSC Jinling Shipyard was signed in April and the design detail has yet to be finalised so no actual work has started.
The announcement of final plans have already been delayed and the new date is February 26th in New York
southy
says...
3:12pm Sat 29 Dec 12
Stephen J
says...
4:19pm Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:The fact is that no steel has yet been cut for this project. The specialist media would have reported it, especially for a high profile project like this, and they have not.
phil maccavity it is not unusal to cut plates way before a design is done, and well in avance ship builds like to have plates to be weathered before shaping and doing the final cut to size, weathering plates will show the weak spots
Of the Ilk
says...
5:33pm Sat 29 Dec 12
derek james
says...
9:51pm Sat 29 Dec 12
southy wrote:as a structural engineer i can confirm there is some truth in what southy says there have been instances of welded ships sinking without trace in the past (no doubt in storms) it's the same with buildings a bolted/ rivetted building will behave better in an earthquake than a welded one. the reason none of the new liners (or floating blocks of flats as i prefer to call them) has sunk i would wager is because with modern technology (gps, radar, sonar?) none of them have been in a situation that titanic was.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Cyber it would be considered, the only real thing that stops rivited ships being made to-day is the cost of building one, and the time it takes to build one.
Being involved in shipping, including building and repair for the past 25 years I cant say that I have ever heard any one express a preference over this (riveting).... I have also just checked with a friend of mine who is a Technical Director of an multinational shipping company (and a fellow of Rina) who has said that even if riveting was cheaper it would not be considered in today's construction due to the current advanced processes and legislation surrounding safety.
The beauty of a rivited ship is that when a ship is being twisted in a storm, the plates have movement room, a welded ship plates do not and would give a lot quicker.
The trouble with Technical Directors is that they don't go to sea, they are land lock.
You talk to any seaman that as served on both rivited and welded ships and ask them and they will come back with the answer give them a rivited ship.
Stephen J
says...
10:45pm Sat 29 Dec 12
derek james wrote:Rather like Southy himself, you're answering a question no one was asking. The real questions are 1) Was riveting ever a serious option for this project? Answer: no. 2) Has steel been cut yet for this job? Answer: no.
southy wrote:as a structural engineer i can confirm there is some truth in what southy says there have been instances of welded ships sinking without trace in the past (no doubt in storms) it's the same with buildings a bolted/ rivetted building will behave better in an earthquake than a welded one. the reason none of the new liners (or floating blocks of flats as i prefer to call them) has sunk i would wager is because with modern technology (gps, radar, sonar?) none of them have been in a situation that titanic was.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Cyber it would be considered, the only real thing that stops rivited ships being made to-day is the cost of building one, and the time it takes to build one.
Being involved in shipping, including building and repair for the past 25 years I cant say that I have ever heard any one express a preference over this (riveting).... I have also just checked with a friend of mine who is a Technical Director of an multinational shipping company (and a fellow of Rina) who has said that even if riveting was cheaper it would not be considered in today's construction due to the current advanced processes and legislation surrounding safety.
The beauty of a rivited ship is that when a ship is being twisted in a storm, the plates have movement room, a welded ship plates do not and would give a lot quicker.
The trouble with Technical Directors is that they don't go to sea, they are land lock.
You talk to any seaman that as served on both rivited and welded ships and ask them and they will come back with the answer give them a rivited ship.
derek james
says...
11:01pm Sat 29 Dec 12
Stephen J wrote:i think you'll find the discussion drifted to the merits of rivetting vs welding, even in a low wage economy like china rivetting was never a serious option for cost purposes, presumably the steel plates would be overlapping if rivetted or edge prepared for butt welding, the fact remains i would wager rivetting is a superior form of construction but in today's financially constrained society is unlikely to be used again
derek james wrote:Rather like Southy himself, you're answering a question no one was asking. The real questions are 1) Was riveting ever a serious option for this project? Answer: no. 2) Has steel been cut yet for this job? Answer: no.
southy wrote:as a structural engineer i can confirm there is some truth in what southy says there have been instances of welded ships sinking without trace in the past (no doubt in storms) it's the same with buildings a bolted/ rivetted building will behave better in an earthquake than a welded one. the reason none of the new liners (or floating blocks of flats as i prefer to call them) has sunk i would wager is because with modern technology (gps, radar, sonar?) none of them have been in a situation that titanic was.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Cyber it would be considered, the only real thing that stops rivited ships being made to-day is the cost of building one, and the time it takes to build one.
Being involved in shipping, including building and repair for the past 25 years I cant say that I have ever heard any one express a preference over this (riveting).... I have also just checked with a friend of mine who is a Technical Director of an multinational shipping company (and a fellow of Rina) who has said that even if riveting was cheaper it would not be considered in today's construction due to the current advanced processes and legislation surrounding safety.
The beauty of a rivited ship is that when a ship is being twisted in a storm, the plates have movement room, a welded ship plates do not and would give a lot quicker.
The trouble with Technical Directors is that they don't go to sea, they are land lock.
You talk to any seaman that as served on both rivited and welded ships and ask them and they will come back with the answer give them a rivited ship.
Cyber__Fug
says...
8:30am Sun 30 Dec 12
southy wrote:I can assure you that all of the Technical Mangers involved in Shipmanagement HAVE been to sea, I do not know one that hasn't.... but do doubt you will have met one of the bridge over the river test that told you his life story.
Cyber__Fug wrote:Cyber it would be considered, the only real thing that stops rivited ships being made to-day is the cost of building one, and the time it takes to build one.
Being involved in shipping, including building and repair for the past 25 years I cant say that I have ever heard any one express a preference over this (riveting).... I have also just checked with a friend of mine who is a Technical Director of an multinational shipping company (and a fellow of Rina) who has said that even if riveting was cheaper it would not be considered in today's construction due to the current advanced processes and legislation surrounding safety.
The beauty of a rivited ship is that when a ship is being twisted in a storm, the plates have movement room, a welded ship plates do not and would give a lot quicker.
The trouble with Technical Directors is that they don't go to sea, they are land lock.
You talk to any seaman that as served on both rivited and welded ships and ask them and they will come back with the answer give them a rivited ship.
As I said, I have been involved in the industry for many years and speak to these people on a regular basis. But hey, you are the expert here !!!!!
One day you will actually acknowledge that you are not the font of knowledge that you think you are and just a frustrated little n'er-do-well that can't accept other people that have achieved !
Lockssmart
says...
5:04pm Sun 30 Dec 12
freemantlegirl2 says...
9:56am Sat 29 Dec 12