Southampton General Hospital "understaffed" says health watchdog (From Daily Echo)

they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

arthur dalyrimple wrote:
they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I not surprise, to many have been saying that Not just this Hospital all NHS Hospitals are under staff and have been for 20 plus years, money being directed into personal gains like contractors and trusts boards.

The answer is simple, we actually need less hospitals, it is better and cheaper:

-More care at home
-Better help to keep people well
-Tackle the obesity epidemic

However, in the meantime if hospitals arent keeping safe then their chief Execs should be charged with manslaughter.

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

they are understaffed on the ward levels but overstaffed on management levels and that is where the money is wasted as far as i can see

I have just come out of the SGH after having an operation. I had the best possible treatment from the best people going. This situation of staff numbers has been bought on by the politicians themselves, and now they are trying to get out of the blame. The politicians are the ones who put Suits in charge of nursing. They got rid of the Matrons that knew exactly what was going on in their hospital. The Minister that is in charge now has been chopped from his previous job through incompetence. What do you expect when you do not put the right people in the right job.The nursing staff are let down by those at the very top of the tree, not at ground level. They are doing a very good, if not , excellent job with some idiot sniping at them from behind some political shield. Just give them all the help that they need, not stand back and criticise. This government is trying tyo make a name for itself as a caring government. That is definitely a lie as they are cutting funds left, right and centre.

mickey01 wrote:
they are understaffed on the ward levels but overstaffed on management levels and that is where the money is wasted as far as i can see

And that is part of the case. money being diverted to the haves

David Cameron said that the NHS will be safe in his hands,,,Do we the public believe that? Personally I don't.

Under investment in ward staff over investment in management, it seem's to me that this is the problem.

All the Health secretary harp's on about is there being more clinical than in 2010, that's not the answer I expect from elected politicians, I expect him to say, we need more staff and I will make it my sole mission during this parliament to ensure more clinical staff are employed, otherwise the NHS is not safe in the hands of his leader.

We are all in it together, just that most are in it more than others

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

Politicians should be stripped of responsibility for the NHS. Their only responsibility should be ensuring that it is adequately funded. All governments are guilty of too much meddling in the NHS and for introducing yet more reforms. The NHS should be run by health professionals, not government ministers.

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

Murder by any name ,who authorises the Liverpool Care Pathway in the Southampton area ????? G.Ps ? Consultants ? Managers ? We need the names for sure.

News Fanatic wrote:
Politicians should be stripped of responsibility for the NHS. Their only responsibility should be ensuring that it is adequately funded. All governments are guilty of too much meddling in the NHS and for introducing yet more reforms. The NHS should be run by health professionals, not government ministers.

But will you have the stomach for the tax increases to fund it?

now theres a surprise its understaffed so a watchdog has found, its been like this for years to many chiefs not enough frontline workers and care for these poorly paitents is dangerously low so mr cameron sort it out

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

There we have your answer, Murder is the best treatment for SGH NHS patients if given by trained clinicians regardless of the law on euthanasia.In the fog of my plebness does this mean anybody can lock granny or grandad in the bedroom withdraw their medicine, painkillers and starve them to death without being tested in court for murder, or do the UK laws only apply to plebs? LCP is the tories and its wretched Clegger Dems collaborators the final solution for the sick elderly and frail.and must be fought and stopped like the nazis were.

Outside of the Box wrote:
David Cameron said that the NHS will be safe in his hands,,,Do we the public believe that? Personally I don't.

Under investment in ward staff over investment in management, it seem's to me that this is the problem.

All the Health secretary harp's on about is there being more clinical than in 2010, that's not the answer I expect from elected politicians, I expect him to say, we need more staff and I will make it my sole mission during this parliament to ensure more clinical staff are employed, otherwise the NHS is not safe in the hands of his leader.

I certainly do not believe Cameron's claim.

Despite saying that investment in the NHS has been increased, what is actually happening would tend to indicate the reverse.

Reducing the number of beds and nursing staff is more of an indication of government economies with the sick paying the price.

It is interesting to note that, in another Echo article, it states that NHS patients are being sent to The Priory for treatment.

The Priory is not part of the NHS, but is in the private sector.

Is this another example of Cameron's Toriesmethod of privatising the NHS by stealth?

I think so.

peter sowerby wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

There we have your answer, Murder is the best treatment for SGH NHS patients if given by trained clinicians regardless of the law on euthanasia.In the fog of my plebness does this mean anybody can lock granny or grandad in the bedroom withdraw their medicine, painkillers and starve them to death without being tested in court for murder, or do the UK laws only apply to plebs? LCP is the tories and its wretched Clegger Dems collaborators the final solution for the sick elderly and frail.and must be fought and stopped like the nazis were.

It's called end of life care. The life is coming to an end anyway? Ever watched anyone die of cancer, vomiting their own pooh? I was glad when the doctor gave that last 'large' dose of morphine and said it won't be long now. This type of care has been around for a long time. Argue the merits of it, but don't accuse clinicians of murder and don't politicise it.

Linesman wrote:

Outside of the Box wrote:
David Cameron said that the NHS will be safe in his hands,,,Do we the public believe that? Personally I don't.

Under investment in ward staff over investment in management, it seem's to me that this is the problem.

All the Health secretary harp's on about is there being more clinical than in 2010, that's not the answer I expect from elected politicians, I expect him to say, we need more staff and I will make it my sole mission during this parliament to ensure more clinical staff are employed, otherwise the NHS is not safe in the hands of his leader.

I certainly do not believe Cameron's claim.

Despite saying that investment in the NHS has been increased, what is actually happening would tend to indicate the reverse.

Reducing the number of beds and nursing staff is more of an indication of government economies with the sick paying the price.

It is interesting to note that, in another Echo article, it states that NHS patients are being sent to The Priory for treatment.

The Priory is not part of the NHS, but is in the private sector.

Is this another example of Cameron's Toriesmethod of privatising the NHS by stealth?

I think so.

Of course it's privatising by stealth, nurses, beds and clinical staff numbers reduced, waiting list higher than ever.

Say;s it all really

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

Strange the word LIVERPOOL alway's gets right up your knickers !!!!
I didnt even see it mentioned in this story.
I only hope that if I am lying in a hospital being eaten alive by cancer suffering severe unrelenting pain that my relatives/offspring will not hesitate to sign the form.

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

There we have your answer, Murder is the best treatment for SGH NHS patients if given by trained clinicians regardless of the law on euthanasia.In the fog of my plebness does this mean anybody can lock granny or grandad in the bedroom withdraw their medicine, painkillers and starve them to death without being tested in court for murder, or do the UK laws only apply to plebs? LCP is the tories and its wretched Clegger Dems collaborators the final solution for the sick elderly and frail.and must be fought and stopped like the nazis were.

It's called end of life care. The life is coming to an end anyway? Ever watched anyone die of cancer, vomiting their own pooh? I was glad when the doctor gave that last 'large' dose of morphine and said it won't be long now. This type of care has been around for a long time. Argue the merits of it, but don't accuse clinicians of murder and don't politicise it.

Glad someone has the guts to speak honestly.

georgetheseventh wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

There we have your answer, Murder is the best treatment for SGH NHS patients if given by trained clinicians regardless of the law on euthanasia.In the fog of my plebness does this mean anybody can lock granny or grandad in the bedroom withdraw their medicine, painkillers and starve them to death without being tested in court for murder, or do the UK laws only apply to plebs? LCP is the tories and its wretched Clegger Dems collaborators the final solution for the sick elderly and frail.and must be fought and stopped like the nazis were.

It's called end of life care. The life is coming to an end anyway? Ever watched anyone die of cancer, vomiting their own pooh? I was glad when the doctor gave that last 'large' dose of morphine and said it won't be long now. This type of care has been around for a long time. Argue the merits of it, but don't accuse clinicians of murder and don't politicise it.

Glad someone has the guts to speak honestly.

Liverpool death pathway is a euthanasia program rolled out by the government to cover NHS hospitals, care and nursing homes and to circumvent the current law on euthanasia. It kills people that do not have cancer as well, and some who are deemed an economic burden to the state.We are supposed to live in a democracy obeying the laws and rules of our society. If the government wishes to change the euthanasia laws it must be done by proper lawful legislation supported by the will of the people in our parliament They are failing us and deserved to be overthrown. LCP is totally flawed unlawful and not fit for purpose.We must stick to the rule of law.I agree to some mercy killings but they must be carried out lawfully and the policies,procedures for an execution available for full public scrutiny. ps I know the management at SGH are diving for cover over LCP.Justice for them is coming down the road fast. .

peter sowerby wrote:

georgetheseventh wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

There we have your answer, Murder is the best treatment for SGH NHS patients if given by trained clinicians regardless of the law on euthanasia.In the fog of my plebness does this mean anybody can lock granny or grandad in the bedroom withdraw their medicine, painkillers and starve them to death without being tested in court for murder, or do the UK laws only apply to plebs? LCP is the tories and its wretched Clegger Dems collaborators the final solution for the sick elderly and frail.and must be fought and stopped like the nazis were.

It's called end of life care. The life is coming to an end anyway? Ever watched anyone die of cancer, vomiting their own pooh? I was glad when the doctor gave that last 'large' dose of morphine and said it won't be long now. This type of care has been around for a long time. Argue the merits of it, but don't accuse clinicians of murder and don't politicise it.

Glad someone has the guts to speak honestly.

Liverpool death pathway is a euthanasia program rolled out by the government to cover NHS hospitals, care and nursing homes and to circumvent the current law on euthanasia. It kills people that do not have cancer as well, and some who are deemed an economic burden to the state.We are supposed to live in a democracy obeying the laws and rules of our society. If the government wishes to change the euthanasia laws it must be done by proper lawful legislation supported by the will of the people in our parliament They are failing us and deserved to be overthrown. LCP is totally flawed unlawful and not fit for purpose.We must stick to the rule of law.I agree to some mercy killings but they must be carried out lawfully and the policies,procedures for an execution available for full public scrutiny. ps I know the management at SGH are diving for cover over LCP.Justice for them is coming down the road fast. .

Are you saying that perfectly healthy people are being murdered by the state?

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

georgetheseventh wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

There we have your answer, Murder is the best treatment for SGH NHS patients if given by trained clinicians regardless of the law on euthanasia.In the fog of my plebness does this mean anybody can lock granny or grandad in the bedroom withdraw their medicine, painkillers and starve them to death without being tested in court for murder, or do the UK laws only apply to plebs? LCP is the tories and its wretched Clegger Dems collaborators the final solution for the sick elderly and frail.and must be fought and stopped like the nazis were.

It's called end of life care. The life is coming to an end anyway? Ever watched anyone die of cancer, vomiting their own pooh? I was glad when the doctor gave that last 'large' dose of morphine and said it won't be long now. This type of care has been around for a long time. Argue the merits of it, but don't accuse clinicians of murder and don't politicise it.

Glad someone has the guts to speak honestly.

Liverpool death pathway is a euthanasia program rolled out by the government to cover NHS hospitals, care and nursing homes and to circumvent the current law on euthanasia. It kills people that do not have cancer as well, and some who are deemed an economic burden to the state.We are supposed to live in a democracy obeying the laws and rules of our society. If the government wishes to change the euthanasia laws it must be done by proper lawful legislation supported by the will of the people in our parliament They are failing us and deserved to be overthrown. LCP is totally flawed unlawful and not fit for purpose.We must stick to the rule of law.I agree to some mercy killings but they must be carried out lawfully and the policies,procedures for an execution available for full public scrutiny. ps I know the management at SGH are diving for cover over LCP.Justice for them is coming down the road fast. .

Are you saying that perfectly healthy people are being murdered by the state?

No its sick elderly and frail and hospital patients who think they are being medically cared for but are secretly being starved to death.ie If you read the news at mid staf hospital two patients under general health care starved to death, and were found in their beds three days later.Thats a good NHS care regime for you,No need for death pathway there. Please confirm my suspicions are you one of those fellows who call themselves a trained clinician or maybe in hospital management at the SGH. If so get to your job of care and not killing as you have no moral lawful authority to carry out LCP. I will fight you to the gates of hell to stop you.

Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about!
As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'!
Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace.
We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life.
I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

peter sowerby wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

georgetheseventh wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Whilst I don't agree with treatment plans that are not relayed to or agreed by patients, I think words like killing and murder are unnecessary and unhelpful. Do NHS Trusts that ration certain cancer drugs, maybe shortening lives, 'murder' people? Or is it trained clinicians exercising their judgement on what is realistically best for that patient when all other factors have been taken into consideration? I'm jolly glad I don't have to make those kinds of decisions.

There we have your answer, Murder is the best treatment for SGH NHS patients if given by trained clinicians regardless of the law on euthanasia.In the fog of my plebness does this mean anybody can lock granny or grandad in the bedroom withdraw their medicine, painkillers and starve them to death without being tested in court for murder, or do the UK laws only apply to plebs? LCP is the tories and its wretched Clegger Dems collaborators the final solution for the sick elderly and frail.and must be fought and stopped like the nazis were.

It's called end of life care. The life is coming to an end anyway? Ever watched anyone die of cancer, vomiting their own pooh? I was glad when the doctor gave that last 'large' dose of morphine and said it won't be long now. This type of care has been around for a long time. Argue the merits of it, but don't accuse clinicians of murder and don't politicise it.

Glad someone has the guts to speak honestly.

Liverpool death pathway is a euthanasia program rolled out by the government to cover NHS hospitals, care and nursing homes and to circumvent the current law on euthanasia. It kills people that do not have cancer as well, and some who are deemed an economic burden to the state.We are supposed to live in a democracy obeying the laws and rules of our society. If the government wishes to change the euthanasia laws it must be done by proper lawful legislation supported by the will of the people in our parliament They are failing us and deserved to be overthrown. LCP is totally flawed unlawful and not fit for purpose.We must stick to the rule of law.I agree to some mercy killings but they must be carried out lawfully and the policies,procedures for an execution available for full public scrutiny. ps I know the management at SGH are diving for cover over LCP.Justice for them is coming down the road fast. .

Are you saying that perfectly healthy people are being murdered by the state?

No its sick elderly and frail and hospital patients who think they are being medically cared for but are secretly being starved to death.ie If you read the news at mid staf hospital two patients under general health care starved to death, and were found in their beds three days later.Thats a good NHS care regime for you,No need for death pathway there. Please confirm my suspicions are you one of those fellows who call themselves a trained clinician or maybe in hospital management at the SGH. If so get to your job of care and not killing as you have no moral lawful authority to carry out LCP. I will fight you to the gates of hell to stop you.

I am not a clinician or SGH worker. Two patients who die are not found for three days is not the same issue as the LCP. Being old and frail does not mean you need medical care. You may find it hard to accept (I don't know), but some people are ready to die from just being old? Their bodies have had enough but are 'falsely' being kept alive, being fed and watered by someone else when they really can't sustain themselves. It's not the same as being 'ill' temporarily. Death is a very difficult concept for younger fitter people to get their head round. No doubt there are wrongs committed within the system, that does not mean the system itself is wrong. I am sorry if you have had such an experience yourself. Mine have been the opposite.

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Since you seem unable to click onto another story; you made a statement regarding Sir Terry Pratchett, I have provided a proof via link that it was made by Martin Amis, and I have asked you to provide any proof that you are correct and also you stated on the same forum that "Starving and dehydrating a patient to death for 30 days plus is not euthanasia its murder" now I have asked you numerous occasions to provide proof , now please go and find your evidence and post it on this forum.

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

****-Biker wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote: they only need as many staff as it takes to murder people under the care pathway ,hippocratic oath ,yada,yada.

silly comment

Correct. As horrible as you words seem.SGH management must publish all Liverpool pathway death care policy and procedures documentation for public scrutiny, and the names of all who authorised them fit for purpose. They must face a test in a court of law for committing unlawful euthanasia on patients without consent or in my veiw murder.

I did this on the other forum Peter and there is unanswered questions on that forum

No Biker you did not.Here is the Question again. Is killing a patient under the liverpool care pathway procedure without the consent of the patient or family at the SGH and Hampshire care and nursing homes unlawful euthanasia or murder.Its a simple answer come on be brave admit it. Lets hear you.

Okay if you are too busy to go through the comments on the other forum then I will post a link to the policy it’s not from the SGH (as I can’t find it) but since it’s a national policy I don’t think it matters that much.
If its unlawful why dont you hire a solicitor get something done about it

http://www.liv.ac.uk
/media/livacuk/mcpci
l/migrated-files/liv
erpool-care-pathway/
updatedlcppdfs/What_
is_the_LCP_-_Healthc
are_Professionals_-_
April_2010.pdf

I am with others doing somthing about it! In about three weeks the govenment controlled LCP report will be published,They also are diving for cover and blaming NHS staff for misinterpreting the death path procedures.You know it and its coming to a hospital near youso you better duck.

SouthamptonNurse wrote:
Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about!
As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'!
Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace.
We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life.
I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

why need doctors and nurses when the main interest is saving on the poor souls pensions when they are killed off on the care pathway , ha ha ,thats a very sick joke of a title , try soursop ,ten thousand times stronger than chemo with no side effects , thats medicine.

SouthamptonNurse wrote:
Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about! As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'! Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace. We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life. I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

I know how you feel, I have had Peter Sowerby talking nonsense for days on another forum

Linesman wrote:

Outside of the Box wrote:
David Cameron said that the NHS will be safe in his hands,,,Do we the public believe that? Personally I don't.

Under investment in ward staff over investment in management, it seem's to me that this is the problem.

All the Health secretary harp's on about is there being more clinical than in 2010, that's not the answer I expect from elected politicians, I expect him to say, we need more staff and I will make it my sole mission during this parliament to ensure more clinical staff are employed, otherwise the NHS is not safe in the hands of his leader.

I certainly do not believe Cameron's claim.

Despite saying that investment in the NHS has been increased, what is actually happening would tend to indicate the reverse.

Reducing the number of beds and nursing staff is more of an indication of government economies with the sick paying the price.

It is interesting to note that, in another Echo article, it states that NHS patients are being sent to The Priory for treatment.

The Priory is not part of the NHS, but is in the private sector.

Is this another example of Cameron's Toriesmethod of privatising the NHS by stealth?

I think so.

Interestingly in 2011 local NHS managers decided to make mental health in-patient beds available at the under-used Antelope House at the RSH for patients who should be cared for in the community. Local community-based facilities like Crowlin House and Woodhaven Lodge were then closed down.

The manager that oversaw this cost-saving initiative has since left the NHS and taken up a management role at the Priory. Now we see that - due to NHS bed shortages - some patients are being referred to the Priory!

It would be interesting to see the figures on these referrals in terms of the patients of which GPs get seen at the Priory compared with those that are placed - perhaps inappropriately - at the RSH.

News Fanatic wrote:
Politicians should be stripped of responsibility for the NHS. Their only responsibility should be ensuring that it is adequately funded. All governments are guilty of too much meddling in the NHS and for introducing yet more reforms. The NHS should be run by health professionals, not government ministers.

Would you suggest an alternative model for running our NHS - as a publicly-funded service - along the lines of the BBC, then?

Personally I think these valuable services should be accountable to the public throught their elected politicians, although I would prefer this to be at a more local or (in England) regional level

****-Biker wrote:

SouthamptonNurse wrote: Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about! As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'! Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace. We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life. I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

I know how you feel, I have had Peter Sowerby talking nonsense for days on another forum

Please answer Quickly before my fog of plebness descends on me.Its called euthanasia isn't it. Come on say it while yuo can. then get back to unlawfully murdering your patients.

If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

SouthamptonNurse wrote:
Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about!
As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'!
Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace.
We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life.
I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

why need doctors and nurses when the main interest is saving on the poor souls pensions when they are killed off on the care pathway , ha ha ,thats a very sick joke of a title , try soursop ,ten thousand times stronger than chemo with no side effects , thats medicine.

Also contains a deadly neurotoxin. So, swings and roundabouts.

-stiv- wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

SouthamptonNurse wrote:
Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about!
As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'!
Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace.
We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life.
I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

why need doctors and nurses when the main interest is saving on the poor souls pensions when they are killed off on the care pathway , ha ha ,thats a very sick joke of a title , try soursop ,ten thousand times stronger than chemo with no side effects , thats medicine.

Also contains a deadly neurotoxin. So, swings and roundabouts.

Not to mention that those results are only in petri dishes and mice. Bleach is also exceptionally good and destroying cancer cells in vitro. In vitro results are a promising first step, but the majority of time do not translate to in vivo.

Raxx wrote:
If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote: If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

Raxx You must be a lawer? Out to m,ake a few bob from the death pathway are you! Please test the LCP in a court of law until you have the guts to please shut up.

peter sowerby wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote: If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

Raxx You must be a lawer? Out to m,ake a few bob from the death pathway are you! Please test the LCP in a court of law until you have the guts to please shut up.

we want hospitals , not euthanesia centres , look up hitler T4 , see any connection to the LCP ?????

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

SouthamptonNurse wrote: Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about! As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'! Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace. We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life. I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

why need doctors and nurses when the main interest is saving on the poor souls pensions when they are killed off on the care pathway , ha ha ,thats a very sick joke of a title , try soursop ,ten thousand times stronger than chemo with no side effects , thats medicine.

Is it just state pensioners who qualify for death pathway or do one's with gold plated occupational pensions like hospital managers and clinical consultants get a chance as well?Remember we are all in it together.ps The SGH administration may sue you for libel if you are not careful. They need to shut everbody up who opposes LCP.

-stiv- wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

SouthamptonNurse wrote:
Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about!
As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'!
Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace.
We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life.
I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

why need doctors and nurses when the main interest is saving on the poor souls pensions when they are killed off on the care pathway , ha ha ,thats a very sick joke of a title , try soursop ,ten thousand times stronger than chemo with no side effects , thats medicine.

Also contains a deadly neurotoxin. So, swings and roundabouts.

Rubbish !!!! As you are probably well aware its the seeds that contain neurotoxins ,not the juice or fruit itself , back to class !!! Please remind me ,what is the five year survival rate of chemo treatment ?

peter sowerby wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote: If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

Raxx You must be a lawer? Out to m,ake a few bob from the death pathway are you! Please test the LCP in a court of law until you have the guts to please shut up.

I'm neither a doctor, a nurse, nor a lawyer. You utter, utter mentalist.

Raxx wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote: If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

Raxx You must be a lawer? Out to m,ake a few bob from the death pathway are you! Please test the LCP in a court of law until you have the guts to please shut up.

I'm neither a doctor, a nurse, nor a lawyer. You utter, utter mentalist.

I have had some legal training however, and your repeated and unjustifiable accusations that doctors and nurses are murdering patients is actionable.

Glad you use your real name on here. It will make things much easier for any of them that decide to sue you.

Raxx wrote:

Raxx wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote: If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

Raxx You must be a lawer? Out to m,ake a few bob from the death pathway are you! Please test the LCP in a court of law until you have the guts to please shut up.

I'm neither a doctor, a nurse, nor a lawyer. You utter, utter mentalist.

I have had some legal training however, and your repeated and unjustifiable accusations that doctors and nurses are murdering patients is actionable. Glad you use your real name on here. It will make things much easier for any of them that decide to sue you.

If found guilty will that make us candidates for the death pathway?Idiot armchair lawyer. Did you know the government has refused to make it a legal requirement for NHS hospitals care/nursing homes to tell anybody they are being killed by death path procedures.FACT! I now ask the Daily Echo in the name of humanity to print on their front page side by side the LCP policies/procedures documentation and Hitlers T4 euthanasia program.It is a mirror image.Lets get it stopped right now.

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote:

Raxx wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote: If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

Raxx You must be a lawer? Out to m,ake a few bob from the death pathway are you! Please test the LCP in a court of law until you have the guts to please shut up.

I'm neither a doctor, a nurse, nor a lawyer. You utter, utter mentalist.

I have had some legal training however, and your repeated and unjustifiable accusations that doctors and nurses are murdering patients is actionable. Glad you use your real name on here. It will make things much easier for any of them that decide to sue you.

If found guilty will that make us candidates for the death pathway?Idiot armchair lawyer. Did you know the government has refused to make it a legal requirement for NHS hospitals care/nursing homes to tell anybody they are being killed by death path procedures.FACT! I now ask the Daily Echo in the name of humanity to print on their front page side by side the LCP policies/procedures documentation and Hitlers T4 euthanasia program.It is a mirror image.Lets get it stopped right now.

Telling people they were being killed by something that doesn't cause death would be a trifle silly, don't you think? Not to mention untrue.

I have trouble not becoming extremely angry at your irresponsible rantings. Not only are you libelling a great number of hard-working compassionate clinicians and other NHS staff, but you are also causing unnecessary suffering to dying patients.

You, and people like you, are CAUSING suffering. YOU are causing traumatic and distressing experiences for patients and their loved ones. With that on your shoulders, I hope you're d@mn sure about your keyboard crusade.

I wonder what your job is Peter. Have you dedicated your life to caring for the sick? Is this what makes you such an expert in these matters? Do tell.

As I said to someone on one of the other threads:

There IS a valid conversation to be had about the LCP being badly applied, and particularly around patients and relatives not being properly and honestly communicated with.

But the hysterical hobby that you and sliepnir have chosen is not a harmless one. It will result (IS resulting in fact) in patients dying in a distressed, confused, frightening, artificially prolonged and uncomfortable manner. Your keyboard crusader antics are having a harmful effect. Such irresponsibility is quite simply immoral.

Please go and spend at least a week reading proper, peer-reviewed content on the LCP. Educate yourself. There is a useful place for your passion on the issue, but it's not in campaigning against the pathway, it's in campaigning for more funding to provide thorough training to clinicians on when and how it should be used.

To repeat, in case you missed it - there IS a cause for concern. That is the poor application of the LCP. That cause would be helped by your energy and obvious motivation. But what you are doing right now is unbalanced, and morally irresponsible.

Oh, and I stand by my opinion on the legalities by the way. Accusing people of murder is no small thing, and an action against you by Southampton clinicians could very reasonably be upheld under tort. The necessary tests are all met.

CPE by the way. :-)

Wow, is that your reason for not telling patients or their families they are being terminated.Please answer my persistent question. Is LCP euthanasia or not?Lets see my credentials of caring for people. 29 years working front line in the Health service,Plus fighting the bullying management of fear by hospital management on behalf of staff to frightened to speak out. I may not of reached the God like position and status you have, but I do know LCP procedures are seriously flawed and not fit for purpose. Please stop this idiot talk of libel action against me or anybody speaking or fighting LCP as even in the swirling fog of my plebness I have some knowlege of libel laws.

"Is LCP euthanasia or not?"

No, it's not.

"29 years working front line in the Health service,Plus fighting the bullying management of fear by hospital management on behalf of staff to frightened to speak out."

Porter then?

Funnily enough, that reads like you have a grudge against the NHS management.

I wonder if that's influencing your 'crusade'?

Hmm............ I wonder...........

"I do know LCP procedures are seriously flawed and not fit for purpose."

How do you "know" this? Please cite your evidence and research.

"This idiot talk of libel action against me or anybody speaking or fighting LCP"

You have accused people of murder. You are free to oppose the LCP. You are not free to maliciously and inaccurately accuse people of murder. Grow up FFS.


Why am I bothering? You're unbalanced and paranoid.

STOP thinking about yourself for one second. You are NOT a crusader for truth. You are a very silly man who is contributing to huge amounts of pain and suffering in people that already have plenty.

SouthamptonNurse wrote:
Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about!
As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'!
Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace.
We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life.
I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

Did you even bother to read this Sowerby? Get Elizabeth to read it to you if you're finding it too confusing.

cantthinkofone wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote:

Raxx wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

Raxx wrote: If any Southampton clinicians are interested, I believe there is a good chance of successfully prosecuting Mr Sowerby for libel.

Have mercy on a poor ignorant pleb and my understanding of the unlawful euthanasia law.If you think you have the authority to starve to death patients in your medical care without telling them I call it murder.I keep asking you what cause of death do you self styled gods of death call it. The days of patients entering your consulting rooms prostrated on their knees to you is over.Now get back to your jobs of medical care and not killing and giving confidence to any patients entering an NHS hospital they are not being secretly killed off.

Raxx You must be a lawer? Out to m,ake a few bob from the death pathway are you! Please test the LCP in a court of law until you have the guts to please shut up.

I'm neither a doctor, a nurse, nor a lawyer. You utter, utter mentalist.

I have had some legal training however, and your repeated and unjustifiable accusations that doctors and nurses are murdering patients is actionable. Glad you use your real name on here. It will make things much easier for any of them that decide to sue you.

If found guilty will that make us candidates for the death pathway?Idiot armchair lawyer. Did you know the government has refused to make it a legal requirement for NHS hospitals care/nursing homes to tell anybody they are being killed by death path procedures.FACT! I now ask the Daily Echo in the name of humanity to print on their front page side by side the LCP policies/procedures documentation and Hitlers T4 euthanasia program.It is a mirror image.Lets get it stopped right now.

Telling people they were being killed by something that doesn't cause death would be a trifle silly, don't you think? Not to mention untrue. I have trouble not becoming extremely angry at your irresponsible rantings. Not only are you libelling a great number of hard-working compassionate clinicians and other NHS staff, but you are also causing unnecessary suffering to dying patients. You, and people like you, are CAUSING suffering. YOU are causing traumatic and distressing experiences for patients and their loved ones. With that on your shoulders, I hope you're d@mn sure about your keyboard crusade. I wonder what your job is Peter. Have you dedicated your life to caring for the sick? Is this what makes you such an expert in these matters? Do tell. As I said to someone on one of the other threads: There IS a valid conversation to be had about the LCP being badly applied, and particularly around patients and relatives not being properly and honestly communicated with. But the hysterical hobby that you and sliepnir have chosen is not a harmless one. It will result (IS resulting in fact) in patients dying in a distressed, confused, frightening, artificially prolonged and uncomfortable manner. Your keyboard crusader antics are having a harmful effect. Such irresponsibility is quite simply immoral. Please go and spend at least a week reading proper, peer-reviewed content on the LCP. Educate yourself. There is a useful place for your passion on the issue, but it's not in campaigning against the pathway, it's in campaigning for more funding to provide thorough training to clinicians on when and how it should be used. To repeat, in case you missed it - there IS a cause for concern. That is the poor application of the LCP. That cause would be helped by your energy and obvious motivation. But what you are doing right now is unbalanced, and morally irresponsible.

Do you actually realize what you are saying to me.That there is a poor application of LCP that needs looking at?375,000 patients have died under this program, it should be stopped today and new policies and procedures be put in place that are lawful and fit for purpose.If the elected govenment brings in euthanasia laws by the will of the people so be it, and I will fight my case with parliament. I think we may of reached some form of understanding of each others opinions and by you admitting some flaws with LCP procedures and administration exist I am happyand grateful you have recognised that. Still I will fight my way to the gates of hell to stop it.ps This is just me and you on a personal matter, if I was admitted unconscious to The SGH in your care would it pass through you mind to put me down under LCP? The truth now, yes or no I wont hold it against you.

cantthinkofone wrote:

SouthamptonNurse wrote: Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about! As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'! Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace. We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life. I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

Did you even bother to read this Sowerby? Get Elizabeth to read it to you if you're finding it too confusing.

That is not LCP you are describing thats medical nursing care and you know it. LCP is an program rolled out to circumvent the euthanasia law and if a patient dies under the administration of this procedure its unlawful killing. Tell me Nurse LCP is being carried out in care homes that do not have the medical facilities of a hospital or hospice and in most cases are unable to provide the most basic human care to the living let alone being in charge of the death path.my name is on the top of this post because I have the guts to stand for what I say. Before you involve my partner have the guts to let me know who you are.

The post you've so quickly dismissed is written by a nurse who has personally administered the LCP. She knows what she's talking about. According to you though, she is a murderer.

Not all of us are at liberty to disclose their identities in discussing controversial subjects on public fora. Some of us have responsibilities.

LCP aside, publicly posting your identity all over the internet is a daft and naive thing to do. I'm guessing that you're at least in your 40s, or you'd know this. It's simply irresponsible.

cantthinkofone wrote:
"Is LCP euthanasia or not?" No, it's not. "29 years working front line in the Health service,Plus fighting the bullying management of fear by hospital management on behalf of staff to frightened to speak out." Porter then? Funnily enough, that reads like you have a grudge against the NHS management. I wonder if that's influencing your 'crusade'? Hmm............ I wonder........... "I do know LCP procedures are seriously flawed and not fit for purpose." How do you "know" this? Please cite your evidence and research. "This idiot talk of libel action against me or anybody speaking or fighting LCP" You have accused people of murder. You are free to oppose the LCP. You are not free to maliciously and inaccurately accuse people of murder. Grow up FFS. Why am I bothering? You're unbalanced and paranoid. STOP thinking about yourself for one second. You are NOT a crusader for truth. You are a very silly man who is contributing to huge amounts of pain and suffering in people that already have plenty.

What a complete fool you are! Do you hold a position of responsibility at the SGH god help them from you. No, I was not a porter you show such contempt for all of them are the finest people you could meet in a hospital.Now listen to this in about three weeks in parliament LCP will be halted in its present form and I will be back on this echo post ask you about it.

peter sowerby wrote:

cantthinkofone wrote:
"Is LCP euthanasia or not?" No, it's not. "29 years working front line in the Health service,Plus fighting the bullying management of fear by hospital management on behalf of staff to frightened to speak out." Porter then? Funnily enough, that reads like you have a grudge against the NHS management. I wonder if that's influencing your 'crusade'? Hmm............ I wonder........... "I do know LCP procedures are seriously flawed and not fit for purpose." How do you "know" this? Please cite your evidence and research. "This idiot talk of libel action against me or anybody speaking or fighting LCP" You have accused people of murder. You are free to oppose the LCP. You are not free to maliciously and inaccurately accuse people of murder. Grow up FFS. Why am I bothering? You're unbalanced and paranoid. STOP thinking about yourself for one second. You are NOT a crusader for truth. You are a very silly man who is contributing to huge amounts of pain and suffering in people that already have plenty.

What a complete fool you are! Do you hold a position of responsibility at the SGH god help them from you. No, I was not a porter you show such contempt for all of them are the finest people you could meet in a hospital.Now listen to this in about three weeks in parliament LCP will be halted in its present form and I will be back on this echo post ask you about it.

Neatly (or not) side-stepping everything you don't want to face. Again.

Bravo. You're utterly nuts.

I run charity clinics for terminal patients in the Sudan 9 months out of 12, so I know exactly what the LCP is about. You are a reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous little man. Stop thinking about yourself and your wounded pride for a second you egomaniac twit, and consider the effect of your ignorant actions.

Nothing wrong with porters by the way, but they're not clinical are they?

And neither were you Peter. You have no clinical training or knowledge whatsoever.

Admin role?

SouthamptonNurse wrote:
Peter Sowerby you are really getting on my nerves! I have never heard such an ill-informed arguement in all my life. You obviously have NEVER had an proper informaton about the Liverpool CARE Pathwayand are just joining in with all the other ill-informed 'Daily Mail/Express readers' out there who manage to get outraged about something they have no idea about!
As a nurse myself there is so much paperwork you have to fill in for the LCP before you decide that it is the best possible course of action. Usually the patient is semi-comatose and all possible avenues of treatment have been exhausted. Doctors and Nurses do not walk around the wards looking for people to 'bump off'!
Thanks to all the ill-informed idiots I have had to witness patients die in the most horendous ways now because Consultants are too afraid to put their patients on the LCP and are too afraid to prescribe adequate levels of medications-I'm sure if one of your family members was in this state you would want them to be at peace.
We DO NOT withdraw food/fluids (however they are usually too unwell/unrousable to drink or eat safely) we provide sponges so that the mouth can be moistened, we stop unnecessary treatments ie intravenous antibiotics which will not improve the patient's chances of recovery and we give the patient the dignity and care that anyone would like to think they would get at the end of their life.
I suggest that you actually get your facts straight before you start launching verbal attacks on every Nurse and Doctor essentially accusing us all of murder (Oh and by the way the newspaper report was about how understaffed the hospital is!!!!!)

Quoted again as the only thing worth reading.

cantthinkofone wrote:
The post you've so quickly dismissed is written by a nurse who has personally administered the LCP. She knows what she's talking about. According to you though, she is a murderer. Not all of us are at liberty to disclose their identities in discussing controversial subjects on public fora. Some of us have responsibilities. LCP aside, publicly posting your identity all over the internet is a daft and naive thing to do. I'm guessing that you're at least in your 40s, or you'd know this. It's simply irresponsible.

Nonsense my local MP& Cllr do it every day at least she has the courage of her convictions to show her face.When you hide your face/name and quote others not involved in this arguement I find gutless.Lets get the word murder out of the way and one you keep doging if euthanasia is unlawful in this country and a patient dies under its administration what do you call it?tell me and I will stop asking as I call murder that should be tested in a court of law. It has nothing to do with NHS LCP doctors or nurses its to do with the law.

peter sowerby wrote:

cantthinkofone wrote:
The post you've so quickly dismissed is written by a nurse who has personally administered the LCP. She knows what she's talking about. According to you though, she is a murderer. Not all of us are at liberty to disclose their identities in discussing controversial subjects on public fora. Some of us have responsibilities. LCP aside, publicly posting your identity all over the internet is a daft and naive thing to do. I'm guessing that you're at least in your 40s, or you'd know this. It's simply irresponsible.

Nonsense my local MP& Cllr do it every day at least she has the courage of her convictions to show her face.When you hide your face/name and quote others not involved in this arguement I find gutless.Lets get the word murder out of the way and one you keep doging if euthanasia is unlawful in this country and a patient dies under its administration what do you call it?tell me and I will stop asking as I call murder that should be tested in a court of law. It has nothing to do with NHS LCP doctors or nurses its to do with the law.

That's possibly the most reasonable response I've seen from you, and I'll happily answer it.

Euthanasia involves intentionally ending a life.

The LCP does nothing of the sort. It accepts that the patient is dying, and stops the attempts to artificially prolong life.

There is a massive difference there.

cantthinkofone wrote:
Nothing wrong with porters by the way, but they're not clinical are they? And neither were you Peter. You have no clinical training or knowledge whatsoever. Admin role?

fool you just showed you contempt for them in your last post,So you are admin are you yep I met up with your kind every day carrying out your masters bidding, You havent got a clue in you small minds thats why the hospital you help to run is in the state it is.

Put the bottle down and go to bed Peter.

cantthinkofone wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

cantthinkofone wrote: The post you've so quickly dismissed is written by a nurse who has personally administered the LCP. She knows what she's talking about. According to you though, she is a murderer. Not all of us are at liberty to disclose their identities in discussing controversial subjects on public fora. Some of us have responsibilities. LCP aside, publicly posting your identity all over the internet is a daft and naive thing to do. I'm guessing that you're at least in your 40s, or you'd know this. It's simply irresponsible.

Nonsense my local MP& Cllr do it every day at least she has the courage of her convictions to show her face.When you hide your face/name and quote others not involved in this arguement I find gutless.Lets get the word murder out of the way and one you keep doging if euthanasia is unlawful in this country and a patient dies under its administration what do you call it?tell me and I will stop asking as I call murder that should be tested in a court of law. It has nothing to do with NHS LCP doctors or nurses its to do with the law.

That's possibly the most reasonable response I've seen from you, and I'll happily answer it. Euthanasia involves intentionally ending a life. The LCP does nothing of the sort. It accepts that the patient is dying, and stops the attempts to artificially prolong life. There is a massive difference there.

Disagree again but understand what you mean.If I lock my granny in her bedroom in the genuine belief she is dying deprive her of her of medicine, food and fluids and she dies will I have broken the countries laws we both have to abide to regardless off any position or medical qualifications we may have.In your opinion would I stand trial for murder,manslaughter or not guilty of both.ps can you get that other idiot in the SGH that keeps shouting at me off my back.Its just inflaming this dreadfull issue.

cantthinkofone wrote:

peter sowerby wrote:

cantthinkofone wrote: "Is LCP euthanasia or not?" No, it's not. "29 years working front line in the Health service,Plus fighting the bullying management of fear by hospital management on behalf of staff to frightened to speak out." Porter then? Funnily enough, that reads like you have a grudge against the NHS management. I wonder if that's influencing your 'crusade'? Hmm............ I wonder........... "I do know LCP procedures are seriously flawed and not fit for purpose." How do you "know" this? Please cite your evidence and research. "This idiot talk of libel action against me or anybody speaking or fighting LCP" You have accused people of murder. You are free to oppose the LCP. You are not free to maliciously and inaccurately accuse people of murder. Grow up FFS. Why am I bothering? You're unbalanced and paranoid. STOP thinking about yourself for one second. You are NOT a crusader for truth. You are a very silly man who is contributing to huge amounts of pain and suffering in people that already have plenty.

What a complete fool you are! Do you hold a position of responsibility at the SGH god help them from you. No, I was not a porter you show such contempt for all of them are the finest people you could meet in a hospital.Now listen to this in about three weeks in parliament LCP will be halted in its present form and I will be back on this echo post ask you about it.

Neatly (or not) side-stepping everything you don't want to face. Again. Bravo. You're utterly nuts. I run charity clinics for terminal patients in the Sudan 9 months out of 12, so I know exactly what the LCP is about. You are a reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous little man. Stop thinking about yourself and your wounded pride for a second you egomaniac twit, and consider the effect of your ignorant actions.

I have a problem with this post can you advise me, Sudan is an islamic state surely LCP intervention is against islamic law.How do you get away with it.Do women get the opportunity of dying this quiet peaceful death.My uderstanding of taliban ideology women dont even get a chance of even etering a hospital, be educated and face prisonment in a burka all their lives. Just a point, no insult to you, but can you clear this up as I, maybe of the wrong impression of sudan hospital life. ps I still find your remarks offensive though.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with that.

They're free clinics Peter, not hospitals.

FoysCornerBoy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Outside of the Box wrote: David Cameron said that the NHS will be safe in his hands,,,Do we the public believe that? Personally I don't. Under investment in ward staff over investment in management, it seem's to me that this is the problem. All the Health secretary harp's on about is there being more clinical than in 2010, that's not the answer I expect from elected politicians, I expect him to say, we need more staff and I will make it my sole mission during this parliament to ensure more clinical staff are employed, otherwise the NHS is not safe in the hands of his leader.

I certainly do not believe Cameron's claim. Despite saying that investment in the NHS has been increased, what is actually happening would tend to indicate the reverse. Reducing the number of beds and nursing staff is more of an indication of government economies with the sick paying the price. It is interesting to note that, in another Echo article, it states that NHS patients are being sent to The Priory for treatment. The Priory is not part of the NHS, but is in the private sector. Is this another example of Cameron's Toriesmethod of privatising the NHS by stealth? I think so.

Interestingly in 2011 local NHS managers decided to make mental health in-patient beds available at the under-used Antelope House at the RSH for patients who should be cared for in the community. Local community-based facilities like Crowlin House and Woodhaven Lodge were then closed down. The manager that oversaw this cost-saving initiative has since left the NHS and taken up a management role at the Priory. Now we see that - due to NHS bed shortages - some patients are being referred to the Priory! It would be interesting to see the figures on these referrals in terms of the patients of which GPs get seen at the Priory compared with those that are placed - perhaps inappropriately - at the RSH.

I think you are on the on the wrong forum.Not sure all the statements here are true