Two new supersized cruise ships heading to Southampton (From Daily Echo)

Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

We have had this debate several time in the past, you were proven wrong then and you are still spouting the same old tripe ! change the record Southy, you are getting very, very boring !

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote: Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards. By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

The Unions had their part to play in it too though if you are to be honest about it. The fact that the owners of the Shipyards didn’t invest in the dry docks and shipyards also had a detrimental effect. Can’t just keep playing the Maggie card!

I agree with Southy, that other countries including our so called EU partners, protected their heavy industries from overseas competition while paying lip service to so called free trade. The problem with the Thatcher Governments and subsequent labour governments too - is their belif that you can deal with this through trade negotiation alone, while our industries are dying. Britain should have closed its doors to any country that did not offer full and fair reciprocal trade agreements - even those within the EU.

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
I agree with Southy, that other countries including our so called EU partners, protected their heavy industries from overseas competition while paying lip service to so called free trade. The problem with the Thatcher Governments and subsequent labour governments too - is their belif that you can deal with this through trade negotiation alone, while our industries are dying. Britain should have closed its doors to any country that did not offer full and fair reciprocal trade agreements - even those within the EU.

Agreed Andy

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Even when the British shipbuilding industry was nationalised, it found it difficult to compete internationally in terms of quality and productivity. Now, Italian state-owned shipbuilder Fincantieri is looking to restructure in order to maintain competitiveness and to reduce over capacity. But the unions have gone berserk and the plan has had to be dropped for political reasons. The unions are more interested in saving every single job and shipyard than in helping to ensure the long-term future of a (state-owned) company, operating in a fircely competitive global market. Sound familiar? Privatisation is surely right around the corner.

CharlieOxbridge wrote:

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote: Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards. By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

The Unions had their part to play in it too though if you are to be honest about it. The fact that the owners of the Shipyards didn’t invest in the dry docks and shipyards also had a detrimental effect. Can’t just keep playing the Maggie card!

They was fighting to save there jobs, they did not want to become unemployed on a job market where there was very little jobs to be had, just because of Thatchers hatred of Unions and workers rights, Remember how many she made unemployed, and the cuts she started to make in services just to give more money to those that had a load all ready.
We had 30 years of political blunders and errors, the same Economics and Political Policy for 30 years and just look how sick the country is.
Its a bloody mess and its all been cause by this right wing policy (its to far right wing) and people like your self & Cyber__Fug and others will not see it for what it is.
Its a breeding ground for Fascism to be able to increase and breed, discontented people will start to believe what the extreme right wing is saying like blaming immergration on the lack of housing and jobs and a pressure on our services which is untrue, its all down to what Thatcher had started simple as that, and it will carry on getting worse till we get a government that is willing to say enough is enough and start undoing all that Thatcher had done, its not going to change while her policys are still in place it just gets worse.

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote: Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards. By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

The Unions had their part to play in it too though if you are to be honest about it. The fact that the owners of the Shipyards didn’t invest in the dry docks and shipyards also had a detrimental effect. Can’t just keep playing the Maggie card!

They was fighting to save there jobs, they did not want to become unemployed on a job market where there was very little jobs to be had, just because of Thatchers hatred of Unions and workers rights, Remember how many she made unemployed, and the cuts she started to make in services just to give more money to those that had a load all ready.
We had 30 years of political blunders and errors, the same Economics and Political Policy for 30 years and just look how sick the country is.
Its a bloody mess and its all been cause by this right wing policy (its to far right wing) and people like your self & Cyber__Fug and others will not see it for what it is.
Its a breeding ground for Fascism to be able to increase and breed, discontented people will start to believe what the extreme right wing is saying like blaming immergration on the lack of housing and jobs and a pressure on our services which is untrue, its all down to what Thatcher had started simple as that, and it will carry on getting worse till we get a government that is willing to say enough is enough and start undoing all that Thatcher had done, its not going to change while her policys are still in place it just gets worse.

62.

Stephen J wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Even when the British shipbuilding industry was nationalised, it found it difficult to compete internationally in terms of quality and productivity. Now, Italian state-owned shipbuilder Fincantieri is looking to restructure in order to maintain competitiveness and to reduce over capacity. But the unions have gone berserk and the plan has had to be dropped for political reasons. The unions are more interested in saving every single job and shipyard than in helping to ensure the long-term future of a (state-owned) company, operating in a fircely competitive global market. Sound familiar? Privatisation is surely right around the corner.

British quality was the best when it was a nationalise industary, our problem was not our quality or productivity, the problem was we did not have ship yards that could build pass a certain lengh and width, our yards was to small.
What was needed was new shipping yards that was large enough to be able to build the new bigger size ships, and not just build one at a time do it the way the Japaneses was doing it, as soon as a the free board was built on a new ship a keel was being layed for the next new ship and the japanese could have up to 4 ships being built at the same time, we could not even have one of these new larger size ships being built.

southy wrote:

Stephen J wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Even when the British shipbuilding industry was nationalised, it found it difficult to compete internationally in terms of quality and productivity. Now, Italian state-owned shipbuilder Fincantieri is looking to restructure in order to maintain competitiveness and to reduce over capacity. But the unions have gone berserk and the plan has had to be dropped for political reasons. The unions are more interested in saving every single job and shipyard than in helping to ensure the long-term future of a (state-owned) company, operating in a fircely competitive global market. Sound familiar? Privatisation is surely right around the corner.

British quality was the best when it was a nationalise industary, our problem was not our quality or productivity, the problem was we did not have ship yards that could build pass a certain lengh and width, our yards was to small.
What was needed was new shipping yards that was large enough to be able to build the new bigger size ships, and not just build one at a time do it the way the Japaneses was doing it, as soon as a the free board was built on a new ship a keel was being layed for the next new ship and the japanese could have up to 4 ships being built at the same time, we could not even have one of these new larger size ships being built.

But even the highly efficient, larger Japanese shipyards saw massive cutbacks in the '70s and '80s. There simply wasn't the sustained worldwide demand for new tonnage, just at the time you're suggesting we should have invested massively in new shipyards. Now, Japanese shipbuilding is on the verge of another major catastrophe unless it can restructure and reinvent itself. That's exactly what Fincantieri is trying to do, if only the unions would let them.

Stephen J wrote:

southy wrote:

Stephen J wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Even when the British shipbuilding industry was nationalised, it found it difficult to compete internationally in terms of quality and productivity. Now, Italian state-owned shipbuilder Fincantieri is looking to restructure in order to maintain competitiveness and to reduce over capacity. But the unions have gone berserk and the plan has had to be dropped for political reasons. The unions are more interested in saving every single job and shipyard than in helping to ensure the long-term future of a (state-owned) company, operating in a fircely competitive global market. Sound familiar? Privatisation is surely right around the corner.

British quality was the best when it was a nationalise industary, our problem was not our quality or productivity, the problem was we did not have ship yards that could build pass a certain lengh and width, our yards was to small.
What was needed was new shipping yards that was large enough to be able to build the new bigger size ships, and not just build one at a time do it the way the Japaneses was doing it, as soon as a the free board was built on a new ship a keel was being layed for the next new ship and the japanese could have up to 4 ships being built at the same time, we could not even have one of these new larger size ships being built.

But even the highly efficient, larger Japanese shipyards saw massive cutbacks in the '70s and '80s. There simply wasn't the sustained worldwide demand for new tonnage, just at the time you're suggesting we should have invested massively in new shipyards. Now, Japanese shipbuilding is on the verge of another major catastrophe unless it can restructure and reinvent itself. That's exactly what Fincantieri is trying to do, if only the unions would let them.

Not for passenger ships no, but for Containers and Tankers wet and dry was being built, and the Japanese had the major of the contracts, because there yards was big enough to be able to build.
People see shipping yards and they think wow thats big you could build a ship the size of ben nevis in it, they just don't realise how much more room is needed to build a ship (about the width as twice as much on each side and a ships lengh extra, then you need laying down areas also for weathering).
Look how the canadians was building corvettes during the wwii, it was a converbelt building, and this is how the janpanese built container ships and tankers

southy wrote:

Stephen J wrote:

southy wrote:

Stephen J wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Even when the British shipbuilding industry was nationalised, it found it difficult to compete internationally in terms of quality and productivity. Now, Italian state-owned shipbuilder Fincantieri is looking to restructure in order to maintain competitiveness and to reduce over capacity. But the unions have gone berserk and the plan has had to be dropped for political reasons. The unions are more interested in saving every single job and shipyard than in helping to ensure the long-term future of a (state-owned) company, operating in a fircely competitive global market. Sound familiar? Privatisation is surely right around the corner.

British quality was the best when it was a nationalise industary, our problem was not our quality or productivity, the problem was we did not have ship yards that could build pass a certain lengh and width, our yards was to small.
What was needed was new shipping yards that was large enough to be able to build the new bigger size ships, and not just build one at a time do it the way the Japaneses was doing it, as soon as a the free board was built on a new ship a keel was being layed for the next new ship and the japanese could have up to 4 ships being built at the same time, we could not even have one of these new larger size ships being built.

But even the highly efficient, larger Japanese shipyards saw massive cutbacks in the '70s and '80s. There simply wasn't the sustained worldwide demand for new tonnage, just at the time you're suggesting we should have invested massively in new shipyards. Now, Japanese shipbuilding is on the verge of another major catastrophe unless it can restructure and reinvent itself. That's exactly what Fincantieri is trying to do, if only the unions would let them.

Not for passenger ships no, but for Containers and Tankers wet and dry was being built, and the Japanese had the major of the contracts, because there yards was big enough to be able to build.
People see shipping yards and they think wow thats big you could build a ship the size of ben nevis in it, they just don't realise how much more room is needed to build a ship (about the width as twice as much on each side and a ships lengh extra, then you need laying down areas also for weathering).
Look how the canadians was building corvettes during the wwii, it was a converbelt building, and this is how the janpanese built container ships and tankers

Yes, but even with those efficiencies, Japan suffered the realities of a declining market, just at the time you are suggesting we should have invested in new shipyards. It would have been politically virtually impossible to put the case for making that kind of investment at the time, no matter what party was in government. So it was very little to do with Thatcher and a lot more to do with the state of global demand. After all, the Swedish commercial shipbuilding industry went from a world leader to totally non-existant. At least we still have a commercial shipbuilding industry, albeit much reduced.

British Workers under the unions were costing too much and crippling this country.e paid 10 men to do 1 mans work so yes we had to let 9 go, blame the unions not Thatcher but Southy only knows 2 words " blame thatcher"

SaintM wrote:
British Workers under the unions were costing too much and crippling this country.e paid 10 men to do 1 mans work so yes we had to let 9 go, blame the unions not Thatcher but Southy only knows 2 words " blame thatcher"

Both are to blame - extremists on both ends of the political spectrum.

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote: Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards. By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

The Unions had their part to play in it too though if you are to be honest about it. The fact that the owners of the Shipyards didn’t invest in the dry docks and shipyards also had a detrimental effect. Can’t just keep playing the Maggie card!

They was fighting to save there jobs, they did not want to become unemployed on a job market where there was very little jobs to be had, just because of Thatchers hatred of Unions and workers rights, Remember how many she made unemployed, and the cuts she started to make in services just to give more money to those that had a load all ready. We had 30 years of political blunders and errors, the same Economics and Political Policy for 30 years and just look how sick the country is. Its a bloody mess and its all been cause by this right wing policy (its to far right wing) and people like your self & Cyber__Fug and others will not see it for what it is. Its a breeding ground for Fascism to be able to increase and breed, discontented people will start to believe what the extreme right wing is saying like blaming immergration on the lack of housing and jobs and a pressure on our services which is untrue, its all down to what Thatcher had started simple as that, and it will carry on getting worse till we get a government that is willing to say enough is enough and start undoing all that Thatcher had done, its not going to change while her policys are still in place it just gets worse.

I'm no fan of Maggie, but, I'm afraid it is true that the Unions have to accept some of the blame. Ask someone who worked at Vospers in the 70's/80's and they will tell you how ridiculous the Union control was. I think things have swung too much the other way in many places now, we need a more modern and inclusive partnership approach, like Germany, the most successful european economy.

thinklikealocal wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote: Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards. By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

The Unions had their part to play in it too though if you are to be honest about it. The fact that the owners of the Shipyards didn’t invest in the dry docks and shipyards also had a detrimental effect. Can’t just keep playing the Maggie card!

They was fighting to save there jobs, they did not want to become unemployed on a job market where there was very little jobs to be had, just because of Thatchers hatred of Unions and workers rights, Remember how many she made unemployed, and the cuts she started to make in services just to give more money to those that had a load all ready. We had 30 years of political blunders and errors, the same Economics and Political Policy for 30 years and just look how sick the country is. Its a bloody mess and its all been cause by this right wing policy (its to far right wing) and people like your self & Cyber__Fug and others will not see it for what it is. Its a breeding ground for Fascism to be able to increase and breed, discontented people will start to believe what the extreme right wing is saying like blaming immergration on the lack of housing and jobs and a pressure on our services which is untrue, its all down to what Thatcher had started simple as that, and it will carry on getting worse till we get a government that is willing to say enough is enough and start undoing all that Thatcher had done, its not going to change while her policys are still in place it just gets worse.

I'm no fan of Maggie, but, I'm afraid it is true that the Unions have to accept some of the blame. Ask someone who worked at Vospers in the 70's/80's and they will tell you how ridiculous the Union control was. I think things have swung too much the other way in many places now, we need a more modern and inclusive partnership approach, like Germany, the most successful european economy.

First of all usual Southy clap trap about 300,000!!!!! British Ship builders working across the world.
There are certainly a few hundred or so working for the likes of Trimline and other UK based firms employed on Cruise Line ships in Italy,France, Finland and Germany.
However the biggest ship building nations are China, South Kopea and Japan. Not many Brits working in these countries.
Unfortunately the British Trade Unions have a lot to answer for. First of all demarkation disputes were prevalent post war and this affected the productivity of ship yards as the Japanese, and others, were able to streamline their production processes.
Also wages were too high.
Apparently A&P who used to be in Soton were able to hire in Polish workers from the Gdansk shipyards(prior to Poland joining the EU) at a lower hourly rate than the locals both here and Falmouth (latter a low wage area) and the Polish rate included fights either way and subsistence whilst working over here.
The Polish workers were equally as good as the Brits and would work harder
If you add this to lack of investment then tou can see why we, as a nation, have fallen from the worlds No 1 ship building country to not even an also ran

Union problems aside, probably the end of WWII saw the start of the shipbuilding demise in UK. The British merchant fleet was of course in need of new tonnage due to war losses. The industry was flat out building ships of all types. Unfortunately in spite of the profits generated, very little was reinvested in upgrading or modernising facilities throughout the industry. Japan and Germany did build state of the art industries from the ground up, so that by the 1960's Britain couldn't compete. Japan has lost orders to Korea who in turn have been affected by the rise of China as a major shipbuiding nation. And yes, the unions caused a fair amount of the problem also.

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

We have had this debate several time in the past, you were proven wrong then and you are still spouting the same old tripe ! change the record Southy, you are getting very, very boring !

So true Southy. Just the situation I see at our local navy and commercial drydock in Auckland. The numbers are far from large but the majority are Brits (usually from around Falmouth or Plymouth) and a few South Africans.

snapperdownunder wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

We have had this debate several time in the past, you were proven wrong then and you are still spouting the same old tripe ! change the record Southy, you are getting very, very boring !

So true Southy. Just the situation I see at our local navy and commercial drydock in Auckland. The numbers are far from large but the majority are Brits (usually from around Falmouth or Plymouth) and a few South Africans.

I know snapperdownunder I have work those runs my self in overseas Ship yards.
People like Cyber have got there head in the sand and only believe the Right wing false propaganda, they don't do work traveling they only go on holiday aboard and see very little.

southy wrote:

snapperdownunder wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

southy wrote:

CharlieOxbridge wrote:
Such a shame that these ships cannot be designed and built in this country. Is this not an industry worth subsidising for? We have the skills and expertise in this country and we can design and build Aircraft Carriers and Trident Submarines but for how much longer?

Thatcher distroied the Ship building and repair shipping yards.
By selling off the profit making state industarys into the private hands, meant that any subsidies that ship yards had to keep them in-line with other ship building nations had to stop (while all other nations ship building was still getting theres from there government and still are), all british ships that had this subsidies from our government also ment that ship also could be used for government. services like a in times of war it could be used as a troop carrier or hospital ship, it also governed the number of overseas workers where allowed to work on the ship and all so it governed where the ship could be registered.

Also there are appox about 300,000 british ship builders and repairers working across the world. many of which you will never see back here again because of what Thatcher did in the 80's

We have had this debate several time in the past, you were proven wrong then and you are still spouting the same old tripe ! change the record Southy, you are getting very, very boring !

So true Southy. Just the situation I see at our local navy and commercial drydock in Auckland. The numbers are far from large but the majority are Brits (usually from around Falmouth or Plymouth) and a few South Africans.

I know snapperdownunder I have work those runs my self in overseas Ship yards.
People like Cyber have got there head in the sand and only believe the Right wing false propaganda, they don't do work traveling they only go on holiday aboard and see very little.

Ah here we go again..... Southy knows best without even knowing who or what he's talking about.

Southy, I will repeat this for you again..... I have been working in the ship repair industry for over 25 years and I still am.... so I guess I have a fair bit of knowledge of what is going on and where.