Future pensioners face pitiful pensions (From Daily Echo)

The elderly, those over 60, are the ones most likely to vote in elections, so they should question candidates at the next general election, and make sure that that they intend to make care of the elderly, a priority.

While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

If Gordon Brown had not spent so much we would be in a better position.
Live within our means.
Do not drive the rich out of the UK or we will be in a worst position.

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

just where was race mentioned?
go back to the guardian

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

.. no, no, no, no and yet more no.

Overall, the level of immigration to Britain fell from 589,000 to 515,000 over the year to June 2012, while emigration from Britain remained broadly stable with a rise of only 10,000 to 352,000 going to live abroad for more than 12 months.

The difference between the level of immigration at 515,000 and emigration at 352,000 gives the net migration figure of 163,000. That is the complete opposite of what you say.

They ARE the very latest statistics released by the Office for National Statistics at the end of February.

I pointed this out to you on 4th March when you first posted this inaccurate information. You really must stop the lying.

Why is it that everybody who loves our country and what it once stood for is called a racist as soon as there is any mention of immigration and immigrants, i do not consider myself to be racist but i do consider myself to be a loyalist in other words i expect all immigrants to integrate fully to learn the language and work, if that criteria is met then as far as i am concerned all are welcome subject to being able to accommodate them which at present we cannot because in short the country is full. Whenever there is a baby boom at some point in the future that baby boom are all going to retire so it should come as no surprise, and we have to look after our elderly so the answer is simple scrap family allowance, just give 12 months notice that family allowance will cease for all newborns, then the family allowance budget will decrease as the children grow older and no longer qualify as the pension budget increases, there is no reason for anybody to have children they can't afford so if you can't afford them don't have them.

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote: While you are correct Linesman. The underlying fact is. The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration. When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes. Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state. There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

How the hell is this racist?

Think you need to research the term before freely throwing it about. People's heads have been filled with so much rubbish and political correctness that as soon as one comments on another country or somebody of a different nationality then they're being racist.

The above is merely a statement based on fact about the the British welfare system being abused and immigration from any country into the UK.

ohec wrote:
Why is it that everybody who loves our country and what it once stood for is called a racist as soon as there is any mention of immigration and immigrants, i do not consider myself to be racist but i do consider myself to be a loyalist in other words i expect all immigrants to integrate fully to learn the language and work, if that criteria is met then as far as i am concerned all are welcome subject to being able to accommodate them which at present we cannot because in short the country is full. Whenever there is a baby boom at some point in the future that baby boom are all going to retire so it should come as no surprise, and we have to look after our elderly so the answer is simple scrap family allowance, just give 12 months notice that family allowance will cease for all newborns, then the family allowance budget will decrease as the children grow older and no longer qualify as the pension budget increases, there is no reason for anybody to have children they can't afford so if you can't afford them don't have them.

Everybody has a right to try and protect their country and remain loyal to it, wherever that country may be. And especially those that have seen it decline from something good.

I read an article recently based on a survey about the Polish that come to work in the UK (as an example for those of you who's blood pressure is rising and about to scream blue murder and call me a racist) and most of them come to work here as they can earn much more money than they can in Poland. They only intend to stay for a few years then take the money home and because of that have no interest in integrating or learning the English language. Although I don't agree with this as they're creating their own barriers and divide between them and most British citizens, to an extent you can't blame them as it's the government that allows this to happen so they're only seizing a good opportunity as any British citizen would do. But you do get some Polish workers here who do integrate and some want to make the UK their home but then on the other end of the spectrum, you get the Polish that don't work and hang round the streets drinking Polish beer all day.

As for benefits because you have children, this is a ridiculous idea. It's handing out benefits like this that encourages people to have children and sends a message that having a child will bring you security. If they took this sort of benefit away then people would realise that having children should be seen as extra expenditure and not a source of income.

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614
086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

.. no, no, no, no and yet more no.

Overall, the level of immigration to Britain fell from 589,000 to 515,000 over the year to June 2012, while emigration from Britain remained broadly stable with a rise of only 10,000 to 352,000 going to live abroad for more than 12 months.

The difference between the level of immigration at 515,000 and emigration at 352,000 gives the net migration figure of 163,000. That is the complete opposite of what you say.

They ARE the very latest statistics released by the Office for National Statistics at the end of February.

I pointed this out to you on 4th March when you first posted this inaccurate information. You really must stop the lying.

After reading many of his deluded posts I have concluded that Southy is on a determined mission to destroy any chance of Tusc being chosen by the electorate. To date the facts seem to back this theory up.

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614

086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

.. in my opinion, to repeat this totally inaccurate statistic when: -
1) He could easily have checked before using it - twice now.
2) I had already pointed out it was wrong and the source of the correct info.
then, to my mind, it IS a deliberate lie. He knew exactly what he was doing.

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614

086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

This bit that the BBC got from the ONS,
"Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK in the year ending June 2012, "similar" to the estimate of 342,000 in the year to June 2011"
The ONS failed to say the word Commonwelth, This is not the first time the ONS as done things like miss out words here and there or failed to publish the full facts, so far in the last 3 mths the ONS as been pick up 7 times for leaving out key words.

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614


086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

This bit that the BBC got from the ONS,
"Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK in the year ending June 2012, "similar" to the estimate of 342,000 in the year to June 2011"
The ONS failed to say the word Commonwelth, This is not the first time the ONS as done things like miss out words here and there or failed to publish the full facts, so far in the last 3 mths the ONS as been pick up 7 times for leaving out key words.

.. absolute rubbish. The Commonwealth has nothing to do with it. It's simple: -
how many in v how many out.

See http://www.ons.gov.u
k/ons/rel/migration1
/migration-statistic
s-quarterly-report/f
ebruary-2013/msqr-fe
b13.html

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614



086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

This bit that the BBC got from the ONS,
"Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK in the year ending June 2012, "similar" to the estimate of 342,000 in the year to June 2011"
The ONS failed to say the word Commonwelth, This is not the first time the ONS as done things like miss out words here and there or failed to publish the full facts, so far in the last 3 mths the ONS as been pick up 7 times for leaving out key words.

.. absolute rubbish. The Commonwealth has nothing to do with it. It's simple: -
how many in v how many out.

See http://www.ons.gov.u

k/ons/rel/migration1

/migration-statistic

s-quarterly-report/f

ebruary-2013/msqr-fe

b13.html

It has every thing to do with commonwealth, the figures comes from 4 different government depts

Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK to go to the commonwealth, in the year ending June 2012, it do not count the numbers that left to go into the EU, nore do it inclued the numbers that left the UK to go else where in the world, nore do it inclued the number of immergrates that are returning back to there country or going to another country.
those figures release by the ONS all was for the commonwealth mainly for Canada, Austraila and New Zealand.
The ONS is not a government dept but an agency for the government, if you want to find the real figures then you need to research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are.
And like I have said the ONS as been pick up 7 times in the last 3 mths, for not publishing the full figures.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614




086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

This bit that the BBC got from the ONS,
"Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK in the year ending June 2012, "similar" to the estimate of 342,000 in the year to June 2011"
The ONS failed to say the word Commonwelth, This is not the first time the ONS as done things like miss out words here and there or failed to publish the full facts, so far in the last 3 mths the ONS as been pick up 7 times for leaving out key words.

.. absolute rubbish. The Commonwealth has nothing to do with it. It's simple: -
how many in v how many out.

See http://www.ons.gov.u


k/ons/rel/migration1


/migration-statistic


s-quarterly-report/f


ebruary-2013/msqr-fe


b13.html

It has every thing to do with commonwealth, the figures comes from 4 different government depts

Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK to go to the commonwealth, in the year ending June 2012, it do not count the numbers that left to go into the EU, nore do it inclued the numbers that left the UK to go else where in the world, nore do it inclued the number of immergrates that are returning back to there country or going to another country.
those figures release by the ONS all was for the commonwealth mainly for Canada, Austraila and New Zealand.
The ONS is not a government dept but an agency for the government, if you want to find the real figures then you need to research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are.
And like I have said the ONS as been pick up 7 times in the last 3 mths, for not publishing the full figures.

.. so, you obviously DIDN'T read the link I posted, or the more detailed PDF link shown near the top of the posted link.

I say that as it is quite obvious you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. Nothing of what you say is confirmed by the accurate data the ONS are providing.

And, as I have told you several times before the ONS is the 'Official' source of data for the UK. There is no need to 'research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are' because these departments DO NOT provide immigration and emigration statistics, full stop. It is the ONS, and the ONS alone, that provide and publish these statistics. They are the official UK migration statistics.

You were wrong to say on 4 March 'The Truth is that there are more leaving the counctry than there is coming in the NOS relest figures last week or 2’

You were wrong to say today ‘during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in.’

You are quite happy to quote what you believe the ONS have said (twice now), but when it is proved, using the actual ONS statistics, that you were wholly inaccurate, and presenting the complete opposite of the truth, you are quite happy to attempt to rubbish the ONS data. That is hypocrisy of the highest order.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614




086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

This bit that the BBC got from the ONS,
"Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK in the year ending June 2012, "similar" to the estimate of 342,000 in the year to June 2011"
The ONS failed to say the word Commonwelth, This is not the first time the ONS as done things like miss out words here and there or failed to publish the full facts, so far in the last 3 mths the ONS as been pick up 7 times for leaving out key words.

.. absolute rubbish. The Commonwealth has nothing to do with it. It's simple: -
how many in v how many out.

See http://www.ons.gov.u


k/ons/rel/migration1


/migration-statistic


s-quarterly-report/f


ebruary-2013/msqr-fe


b13.html

It has every thing to do with commonwealth, the figures comes from 4 different government depts

Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK to go to the commonwealth, in the year ending June 2012, it do not count the numbers that left to go into the EU, nore do it inclued the numbers that left the UK to go else where in the world, nore do it inclued the number of immergrates that are returning back to there country or going to another country.
those figures release by the ONS all was for the commonwealth mainly for Canada, Austraila and New Zealand.
The ONS is not a government dept but an agency for the government, if you want to find the real figures then you need to research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are.
And like I have said the ONS as been pick up 7 times in the last 3 mths, for not publishing the full figures.

Southy - I try to be generous and give people the benefit of the doubt, but you are simply just wrong on this.

There is nothing to back up a single claim you are making. You are grossly misunderstanding unambiguous statistics from departments that are as unbiased as is possible. Yes mistakes get made*, but if they were constantly pushing an agenda then the opposition would be picking them up on it and shouting it from the roof tops.
As it is, only the fringe crazies call them biased and don't believe what is published.

I suggest you take a basic college level course on statistics and numerical literacy**, before again posting with such vigour regarding plain facts that are relatively indisputable (within the published margins of error).

* I'll take your word for it, without researching myself, that ONS have been picked up on errors 7 times in 3 months. But this shows that oversight and transparency works. They can't slip "right wing false propaganda" into the national narrative unnoticed.

** There are plenty of free courses available online, I'll be happy to find one and post links. Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude - I love seeing people getting educated in areas they are clearly deficient, but because of their lack of knowledge aren't able to "know what they don't know".

.. I bet southy cannot post the details of the errors ('7 times in the last 3 mths') that he claims the ONS have made.

It's the same pattern; he's quite specific that it is 7 times in 3 months. But he will not tell us what they are for the simple reason this is yet another statistic he has just made up.

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614





086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

This bit that the BBC got from the ONS,
"Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK in the year ending June 2012, "similar" to the estimate of 342,000 in the year to June 2011"
The ONS failed to say the word Commonwelth, This is not the first time the ONS as done things like miss out words here and there or failed to publish the full facts, so far in the last 3 mths the ONS as been pick up 7 times for leaving out key words.

.. absolute rubbish. The Commonwealth has nothing to do with it. It's simple: -
how many in v how many out.

See http://www.ons.gov.u



k/ons/rel/migration1



/migration-statistic



s-quarterly-report/f



ebruary-2013/msqr-fe



b13.html

It has every thing to do with commonwealth, the figures comes from 4 different government depts

Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK to go to the commonwealth, in the year ending June 2012, it do not count the numbers that left to go into the EU, nore do it inclued the numbers that left the UK to go else where in the world, nore do it inclued the number of immergrates that are returning back to there country or going to another country.
those figures release by the ONS all was for the commonwealth mainly for Canada, Austraila and New Zealand.
The ONS is not a government dept but an agency for the government, if you want to find the real figures then you need to research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are.
And like I have said the ONS as been pick up 7 times in the last 3 mths, for not publishing the full figures.

.. so, you obviously DIDN'T read the link I posted, or the more detailed PDF link shown near the top of the posted link.

I say that as it is quite obvious you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. Nothing of what you say is confirmed by the accurate data the ONS are providing.

And, as I have told you several times before the ONS is the 'Official' source of data for the UK. There is no need to 'research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are' because these departments DO NOT provide immigration and emigration statistics, full stop. It is the ONS, and the ONS alone, that provide and publish these statistics. They are the official UK migration statistics.

You were wrong to say on 4 March 'The Truth is that there are more leaving the counctry than there is coming in the NOS relest figures last week or 2’

You were wrong to say today ‘during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in.’

You are quite happy to quote what you believe the ONS have said (twice now), but when it is proved, using the actual ONS statistics, that you were wholly inaccurate, and presenting the complete opposite of the truth, you are quite happy to attempt to rubbish the ONS data. That is hypocrisy of the highest order.

I don't need to info I getting is direct and not from a agency working for the government. I don't quote ONS figures unless they are saying the say as the government dept.
Check with the Canadain, New Zealand and Austrailian Government there total figures of immergration from the UK fall just short of 352,000, the rest if i had time to check would be made up with the rest of the commonwealth countrys with India, Pakistani, Ghana, South Africa, Jamaica ect ect ect.
The USA recieved over 100,000 people from the EU in the last year witch many are from the UK.
The trouble with you like UKIP do not go deeper and cross reference, thats why UKIP was so wrong about the figures it release for the Eastleigh by-election, and they got there figures from the ONS.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

arthur dalyrimple wrote:

**** Pete wrote:
While you are correct Linesman.

The underlying fact is.

The welfare-state we know and love has been eroded away. Mainly by immigration.

When Immigration happened in the 50s from commonwealth/Empire countries. It was needed for booming Britain. Most immigrants made money for society in Taxes.

Now the money goes to people who come here with no intention of working just to live off the state.

There is no money left....As Gordon Brown was told by the treasury. Very soon Cameron will be hearing the same words.!!!

more racist drivel , try corporate welfare as the cause , the fat cats at the top stripping the country bare.

Very true arthur.
during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in. UKIP twisted aload of facts about the Hugrains and Romanias, Its like one Romanian pointed out if that many was to leave there country there would not be many people left to run the country, plus majority would not head for britian the majority would head for Italy and Spain as a second choice.
Also those surveys in Hungry and Romania it was not the whole population that was ask, it was just 1000 people at an Airport.

You mean this report?
http://www.bbc
.co.uk/news/uk-21614






086

Then you have failed basic maths - this says that the rate of immigration to the county has fallen, but there are still far more (net) entering the country than leaving.

I don't think you're lying as freefinker suggests, just talking confidently about a(nother) fact you have misunderstood.

This bit that the BBC got from the ONS,
"Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK in the year ending June 2012, "similar" to the estimate of 342,000 in the year to June 2011"
The ONS failed to say the word Commonwelth, This is not the first time the ONS as done things like miss out words here and there or failed to publish the full facts, so far in the last 3 mths the ONS as been pick up 7 times for leaving out key words.

.. absolute rubbish. The Commonwealth has nothing to do with it. It's simple: -
how many in v how many out.

See http://www.ons.gov.u




k/ons/rel/migration1




/migration-statistic




s-quarterly-report/f




ebruary-2013/msqr-fe




b13.html

It has every thing to do with commonwealth, the figures comes from 4 different government depts

Some 352,000 emigrants left the UK to go to the commonwealth, in the year ending June 2012, it do not count the numbers that left to go into the EU, nore do it inclued the numbers that left the UK to go else where in the world, nore do it inclued the number of immergrates that are returning back to there country or going to another country.
those figures release by the ONS all was for the commonwealth mainly for Canada, Austraila and New Zealand.
The ONS is not a government dept but an agency for the government, if you want to find the real figures then you need to research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are.
And like I have said the ONS as been pick up 7 times in the last 3 mths, for not publishing the full figures.

.. so, you obviously DIDN'T read the link I posted, or the more detailed PDF link shown near the top of the posted link.

I say that as it is quite obvious you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. Nothing of what you say is confirmed by the accurate data the ONS are providing.

And, as I have told you several times before the ONS is the 'Official' source of data for the UK. There is no need to 'research the home office and the foreign office and other governments to see what there figures are' because these departments DO NOT provide immigration and emigration statistics, full stop. It is the ONS, and the ONS alone, that provide and publish these statistics. They are the official UK migration statistics.

You were wrong to say on 4 March 'The Truth is that there are more leaving the counctry than there is coming in the NOS relest figures last week or 2’

You were wrong to say today ‘during the Eastleigh by-election figures was release, the number leaving the country is larger than those coming in.’

You are quite happy to quote what you believe the ONS have said (twice now), but when it is proved, using the actual ONS statistics, that you were wholly inaccurate, and presenting the complete opposite of the truth, you are quite happy to attempt to rubbish the ONS data. That is hypocrisy of the highest order.

I don't need to info I getting is direct and not from a agency working for the government. I don't quote ONS figures unless they are saying the say as the government dept.
Check with the Canadain, New Zealand and Austrailian Government there total figures of immergration from the UK fall just short of 352,000, the rest if i had time to check would be made up with the rest of the commonwealth countrys with India, Pakistani, Ghana, South Africa, Jamaica ect ect ect.
The USA recieved over 100,000 people from the EU in the last year witch many are from the UK.
The trouble with you like UKIP do not go deeper and cross reference, thats why UKIP was so wrong about the figures it release for the Eastleigh by-election, and they got there figures from the ONS.

.. total and utter rubbish, and you know it. You've been caught out telling fibs, yet again, and are just not man enough to admit it. Pathetic.

Why does anybody take any notice of anything southy says, all he does is spoil the flow of any reasonable comments because all he spouts is utter rubbish if you can understand it. As for TUSC they should pay him to keep his mouth shut as a worse ambassador would be pretty hard to find.

ohec wrote:
Why is it that everybody who loves our country and what it once stood for is called a racist as soon as there is any mention of immigration and immigrants, i do not consider myself to be racist but i do consider myself to be a loyalist in other words i expect all immigrants to integrate fully to learn the language and work, if that criteria is met then as far as i am concerned all are welcome subject to being able to accommodate them which at present we cannot because in short the country is full. Whenever there is a baby boom at some point in the future that baby boom are all going to retire so it should come as no surprise, and we have to look after our elderly so the answer is simple scrap family allowance, just give 12 months notice that family allowance will cease for all newborns, then the family allowance budget will decrease as the children grow older and no longer qualify as the pension budget increases, there is no reason for anybody to have children they can't afford so if you can't afford them don't have them.

I totally agree. why should we be made to feel like some kind of social outcast for pointing out that the in-flux of immigrants has drained our system of any funds. There is more coming out of the pot than going in, its simple maths.This means that the people who have paid into the system for 60 years and still paying in like my Dad will not benefit from it at all when he needs it because there isnt anything left. Its not about racisim, that flag is waved way to quickly and at every opportunity. The racisim in this country is fast becoming racisim against the English as they seem to have less rights than anyone else.

I think some of you are missing the point, the first thing Osborne said when he got the job, was that the ageing population were going to be a burden on Society. Which I assumed he meant that they would have to be treated as a nuisance to the wealthy, who would be forced to cough up some dough to pay for their care and welfare.