Hampshire County Council approve work on HMS M33

HMS M33 HMS M33

COUNCIL bosses have been criticised for spending £250,000 of taxpayers’ money restoring a First World War warship.

Conservative-run Hampshire County Council approved the money for a major revamp of HMS M33 in this year’s budget.

But a leading opposition councillor says the public money would be better spent on key services.

The row comes after the council made £100m savings over the last two years and axed 1,700 jobs.

The cuts included closing two libraries – at Stanmore in Winchester and North Baddesley – which are now run by volunteers.

The council bought the Monitor gunboat in 1990 when disgraced former Tory leader Freddie Emery-Wallis was at the helm.

It is one of only two British First World War ships still surviving and is now berthed in dry dock at Portsmouth Historic Dockyard, near Nelson’s flagship HMS Victory.

Culture Secretary Maria Miller praised the project on a recent visit.

But Councillor Peter Chegwyn, Liberal Democrat opposition spokesman for recreation and heritage, said: “I am surprised that the council, which is cutting libraries, museums and galleries, can yet find such a large amount to spend on a ship which is certainly of historical interest but surely there are more worthwhile projects.

“I would much rather see the money spent on restoring the book fund and keeping open small libraries and galleries which are under threat of closure.”

The council has refused to say how much it has already spent restoring the former rusting hulk to her original external 1915-1919 condition.

Built in 1915, HMS M33 saw active service in the Mediterranean throughout the First World War and provided support for the landing of Allied forces during the Gallipoli campaign of 1915-16.

After the war, she served a variety of purposes, including fuelling hulk, floating workshop and office.

In 1997, the county museum service placed her in dry docks for extensive works to stabilise hull corrosion. Other repairs have included new masts, internal structural works and making her hull watertight. Nearly all the fittings, anchors and gun shields were made from scratch.

The latest refit is a joint project with the National Museum of the Royal Navy to mark the 100th anniversary of the Gallipoli campaign in 1915. It will mean visitors can step on board the historic vessel and see inside. Currently the gunboat can only be viewed from the dockside.

Culture and recreation chief Councillor Keith Chapman, defended the expenditure.

He said: “The county council saved and restored the M33 warship, which is one of only two surviving First World War ships, and it will now become an even more popular public attraction as the nation remembers the 1914-18 war when it celebrates the centenary of that war.”

Cllr Chapman said the county was in discussion with National Museum of the Royal Navy to secure funding from the Heritage Lottery Fund for future works.

The ship refit comes after the council closed Stanmore Library in Waverley Way in 2012 to save £36,000 per year. The library moved to The Carroll Centre where it is now run by volunteers.

North Baddesley Library was also shut last year but reopened the following day as a community library run by the parish council and Friends of North Baddesley Library.

Comments(17)

Torchie1 says...
11:18am Thu 14 Mar 13

Step back a century and people probably argued against preservation of HMS Victory. Libraries are being trampled to death by the Internet but visitors will always be attracted to history.

NetleyNed says...
11:37am Thu 14 Mar 13

Living in this country is like living in a museum. It's now time we stepped into 2013 and put the past behind us.

Torchie1 says...
11:55am Thu 14 Mar 13

NetleyNed wrote:
Living in this country is like living in a museum. It's now time we stepped into 2013 and put the past behind us.
Is it simply a quirk or do you get your name from the same place that gets jam packed every July with people paying to see old steam engines?

X Old Bill says...
12:21pm Thu 14 Mar 13

M33 was built as a Monitor by Harland and Wolff in 1915 under the Emergency War Programme.
She served in the Mediterranean, Aegean sea and White sea.
From 1920 al the 'M' class monitors were disarmed and converted to Mine-layers, their original guns being obsolete at time of building anyway.
In later years she became a tender to Vernon at Portsmouth.

So, to which part of her history do they wish to restore her?
Where do you find a spare 9.2 inch gun and turret nowadays?

localnews says...
12:25pm Thu 14 Mar 13

"much of its been rebuilt from scratch"............
.not a WW1 ship then,its a copy

NetleyNed says...
12:49pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Torchie1 wrote:
NetleyNed wrote:
Living in this country is like living in a museum. It's now time we stepped into 2013 and put the past behind us.
Is it simply a quirk or do you get your name from the same place that gets jam packed every July with people paying to see old steam engines?
Netley Abbey

Subject48 says...
2:01pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Wonder if any tories have ties to the contractors in charge of this projects.

southy says...
3:25pm Thu 14 Mar 13

X Old Bill wrote:
M33 was built as a Monitor by Harland and Wolff in 1915 under the Emergency War Programme.
She served in the Mediterranean, Aegean sea and White sea.
From 1920 al the 'M' class monitors were disarmed and converted to Mine-layers, their original guns being obsolete at time of building anyway.
In later years she became a tender to Vernon at Portsmouth.

So, to which part of her history do they wish to restore her?
Where do you find a spare 9.2 inch gun and turret nowadays?
Theres a picture of her on-line how she looks today in the dry dock, looks very tidy they given her a wwii camo colours, but done up like she was in 1917

southy says...
3:28pm Thu 14 Mar 13

They remade the guns and turret.
Bit more history she was used in Russia in 1919 to with draw the British and white army troops in the russian civil war.

X Old Bill says...
4:15pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Southy,
Yes I have it now! The picture at the head of the article confused me - Nothing like she is now, typical Echo! - HMS Minerva aka M33.
They have done a fair job on the ship already and she looked pretty tidy when I saw her in 2011.
Not too sure about the dazzle camouflage, I think that it was introduced in 1917 for seagoing vessels, so as a river monitor she might or might not have had it after that date, but probably not in WWII because she wasn't seagoing any more.

Further to my post above - HW subcontracted the work to Workman-Clark and her yard number was 489WC

loosehead says...
4:38pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Subject48 wrote:
Wonder if any tories have ties to the contractors in charge of this projects.
Surely by remembering our history we wont make the same mistakes?
So preserving our history & showing & teaching it to the children has to be one of our top priorities?
What is bonfire night if not a remembrance of our past or remembrance Sunday?
Stonehenge & all historical sites or machines,ships are our way of remembering the good & the bad of the past

cmth40 says...
6:00pm Thu 14 Mar 13

im not against it maybe in a few years time as this is not the time we have other more important issues hcc lost the plot again,thorborn had a lot of money wasted on he,s "look at me im a senator hahahahahaha,and then the broad band way so he can speak to he,s daughter in china and she can watch daddy waste the publics money whilst many starve,services cancelled god i hope she,s proud of this over the hill arrogant man

cmth40 says...
6:00pm Thu 14 Mar 13

im not against it maybe in a few years time as this is not the time we have other more important issues hcc lost the plot again,thorborn had a lot of money wasted on he,s "look at me im a senator hahahahahaha,and then the broad band way so he can speak to he,s daughter in china and she can watch daddy waste the publics money whilst many starve,services cancelled god i hope she,s proud of this over the hill arrogant man

cmth40 says...
6:00pm Thu 14 Mar 13

im not against it maybe in a few years time as this is not the time we have other more important issues hcc lost the plot again,thorborn had a lot of money wasted on he,s "look at me im a senator hahahahahaha,and then the broad band way so he can speak to he,s daughter in china and she can watch daddy waste the publics money whilst many starve,services cancelled god i hope she,s proud of this over the hill arrogant man

CharlieOxbridge says...
7:47am Fri 15 Mar 13

There are historic ship trusts in place for this. They decide how much money gets spent on which ship by merit.
.
Tax payer’s money shouldn’t have been spent. Private sector investment should have sought.
.
Are there not subsidies that the Government could have allowed instead?

southy says...
12:09pm Fri 15 Mar 13

X Old Bill wrote:
Southy,
Yes I have it now! The picture at the head of the article confused me - Nothing like she is now, typical Echo! - HMS Minerva aka M33.
They have done a fair job on the ship already and she looked pretty tidy when I saw her in 2011.
Not too sure about the dazzle camouflage, I think that it was introduced in 1917 for seagoing vessels, so as a river monitor she might or might not have had it after that date, but probably not in WWII because she wasn't seagoing any more.

Further to my post above - HW subcontracted the work to Workman-Clark and her yard number was 489WC
If you look at the camo again, that type of camo was used first by the Germans in wwii, 1917 did see a camo but not of this striking sharpe edge type, its was more like the rounded soft edges of shades of gray

X Old Bill says...
2:58pm Fri 15 Mar 13

southy wrote:
X Old Bill wrote:
Southy,
Yes I have it now! The picture at the head of the article confused me - Nothing like she is now, typical Echo! - HMS Minerva aka M33.
They have done a fair job on the ship already and she looked pretty tidy when I saw her in 2011.
Not too sure about the dazzle camouflage, I think that it was introduced in 1917 for seagoing vessels, so as a river monitor she might or might not have had it after that date, but probably not in WWII because she wasn't seagoing any more.

Further to my post above - HW subcontracted the work to Workman-Clark and her yard number was 489WC
If you look at the camo again, that type of camo was used first by the Germans in wwii, 1917 did see a camo but not of this striking sharpe edge type, its was more like the rounded soft edges of shades of gray
Oh dear, Southy, You have just gone and put your foot in it again.

Dazzle camouflage was devised by artist Norman Wilkinson and his colleagues at the RA in London in late 1917 - The patterns were exclusively geometric and contrasting, just as currently shown on M33, in order to confuse optical sighting equipment on submarines etc.
Disruptive camouflage, which you describe, was introduced in WWII by the Allies in about 1940, when radar made dazzle irrelevant. At about the same time Germany adopted variations on the dazzle pattern.
See HMS Belfast for Disruptive pattern as opposed to Dazzle pattern.

During WWI One of the ten appointed 'Dazzle Officers' was based at SOUTHAMPTON. He would have been a Lt RNVR, 'not of military age'. See if you can find out anything about who and where...

click2find

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