Crisis over primary school places warning (From Daily Echo)
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Crisis over primary school places warning
8:23am Friday 15th March 2013 in News
Crisis over primary school places warning
Tens of thousands of extra school places will be needed by next year amid a continuing surge in demand, the spending watchdog warned today.
Despite more than 80,000 extra primary spaces being created in the last two years, there are still signs of a real strain on school places, according to a new report by the National Audit Office (NAO).
It says that the Government is pumping billions of pounds into establishing more places, but suggests that the Department for Education (DfE) still needs a better understanding of the costs, and the impact its funding is having in local areas.
The report suggests that the heightened demand for primary school places is partly down to a rising birth rate - the rise in the number of children born in England between 2001 and 2011 was the biggest 10-year increase since the 1950s.
Between 2006/07 and 2011/12, the number of four-year-olds starting reception classes rose by 16%, it says.
It warns that by September 2014, an estimated extra 256,000 primary and secondary school places will be needed to meet the demand. Of these, 240,000 are required in primary schools, with more than a third (37%) needed in London alone.
These extra places are still needed despite a net increase of almost 81,500 places which were created between 2010 and May 2012, and the DfE increasing the amount of funding it gives to local councils to provide spaces.
How many places will be required in the future is uncertain, the NAO says, but it is expected that more will be needed beyond next year.
The NAO's report says that while the DfE considers that local councils are meeting their duty to provide enough school places, the watchdog found signs of pressure on the system.
More than a fifth (20.4%) of primaries are full up, or over capacity, while the numbers of children being taught in large infant classes of 31 pupils or more has more than doubled in five years. This has gone up from 23,200 in 2007 to 47,300 in 2012, the report says.
And an NAO survey of local councils found that more than a third (34%) said that rising demand for school places has had a "significant impact" on the average time a child spends travelling to school.
The report concludes: "The Department's assessments of funding required to meet expected demand are based on incomplete information."
In total, the DfE has allocated around £4.3 billion in capital funding to local councils for new school places in England between 2010 and 2014, the report says, plus an additional £982 million announced last December. Some of this extra money will be used to fund more places by 2014/15 and some for 2015/16.
Councils' costs of providing school places can vary, it says.
The DfE initially estimated in 2010, that it would cost £5 billion to provide 324,000 places, and this would be covered by its funding and contributions from local councils.
But this figure was based on 2007, adjusted to 2010 prices, and did not include costs such as acquiring land for new schools as the DfE assumed that most new places would be created as part of existing schools, the report suggests.
The NAO said: "The department is now creating new estimates of costs, but it is unclear whether the current level of funding will be sufficient to meet the forecast need."
It added that the DfE has improved the information it uses to decide on funding allocations, but currently does not know enough about how councils are using the funding they have already received.
NAO head Amyas Morse said: "The Department has ambitious objectives to provide school places, and to enable parents to have some choice of school for their children. However, despite increases in places and funding over the last two years, it faces a real challenge, with 256,000 places still required by 2014/15. Furthermore, there are indications of strain on school places.
"The Department needs a better understanding of costs to improve value for money, as well as a better understanding of the impact its funding contribution is having on the ground."
Some of the Government's flagship free schools may open in areas with a surplus of places, the NAO said.
The report says that the free schools initiative will increase the number of places available "although it is not primarily intended by the Department to deliver places in areas of shortage".
The location of a school is one factor the DfE looks at when assessing applications, along with others such as parental demand.
Around £1.7 billion of capital funding has been allocated by the DfE to free schools for 2014/15, the NAO said.
The watchdog said its analysis of 45 free schools which opened last September suggested that these schools could offer up to 24,500 new places - around 10% of the 256,000 needed.
Around 58% of the places that could be provided by free schools are in areas with a shortage of places.
But, only 8,800 of these 24,500 are in primary schools - where there is the greatest need - and most free schools will not be at full capacity by next year, the report says.
Schools Minister David Laws said: "This report from the National Audit Office confirms that this government is dramatically increasing funding for new school places, with double the level of investment compared to the previous parliament.
"Labour reduced the number of places available even though there was a baby boom under way. We have already created 80,000 new places to deal with the shortage of places left by the last government and there will be more places to come."
Shadow schools minister Kevin Brennan said: "Michael Gove's first job as Education Secretary is to provide enough school places for children - he is failing in that duty.
"David Cameron's government needs to address the crisis in school places they have created. They have cut funding for school buildings by 60%, twice the Whitehall average and wasted £1 billion through mismanaging academies."
Councillor David Simmonds, chair of the Local Government Association's (LGA) children and young people board, said: "This report clearly shows that, despite the best efforts of councils, we are still facing unprecedented pressures in tackling the desperate shortage of new good quality school places.
"The process of opening up much needed state schools is being impaired by a lack of capital funding and in some cases by the presumption in favour of free schools and academies. With some free schools failing to secure a permanent site by their opening date, councils cannot rely on them to fulfil their duty to provide a school place for every child.
"Councils are ambitious to meet every parent's expectation that their child has a place in a good school in their local area but there is still not enough capacity to cope with the growing demand."
Comments(38)
Linesman
says...
9:35am Fri 15 Mar 13
Was it in some hand-out at a meeting of the NF?
I cannot recall hearing of, or seeing any official report.
CharlieOxbridge
says...
10:00am Fri 15 Mar 13
.co.uk/news/uknews/i
mmigration/9611062/H
igher-number-of-fema
le-immigrants-than-p
reviously-thought-sp
arked-mini-baby-boom
.html
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/9634127/
One-in-four-British-
babies-born-to-forei
gn-mothers.html
http://www.ft.com/cm
s/s/0/bf1c1d7c-1465-
11e2-8ef2-00144feabd
c0.html#axzz2NavbS7K
O
http://www.express.c
o.uk/news/uk/123352/
Immigrant-baby-boom
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
1209396/Population-U
K-tops-61million-big
gest-baby-boom-gener
ation.html
http://www.guardian.
co.uk/world/2009/aug
/27/population-growt
h-uk-birth-rate-immi
gration
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/health/721562
4.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-11536829
one in a million
says...
11:06am Fri 15 Mar 13
The population in Hampshire is on the up, both through birth and immigration (and not necessarily migrants from abroad); local government are planning massive housing builds, these must be supported with the right level of infrastructre, which clearly hasn't been adequately planned in previous developments or ignored completely.
CharlieOxbridge
says...
11:13am Fri 15 Mar 13
one in a million wrote:I believe that the Government is supporting new housing developments by stipulating that developments of a certain size must also have a new Primary school built on the site.
Speaking as someone whose daughter attends a primary school that is one of those that is bulging at the seams, these school places, to me , are needed. The population in Hampshire is on the up, both through birth and immigration (and not necessarily migrants from abroad); local government are planning massive housing builds, these must be supported with the right level of infrastructre, which clearly hasn't been adequately planned in previous developments or ignored completely.
.
Hedge End is one example of that, also several in Andover too.
one in a million
says...
11:15am Fri 15 Mar 13
CharlieOxbridge
says...
11:32am Fri 15 Mar 13
one in a million wrote:Not nearly enough, nobody anticipated the numbers from UK born babies from migrant women over the past 10 years or so.
CharlieOxbridge - that's great, does this address the existing overcrowding?
.
These new Primary schools are there to support the residents of the new housing estate and cannot help with the existing numbers outside of these developments although they may be able to take on some of the burden if numbers aren’t taken up which I severely would doubt.
southy
says...
1:20pm Fri 15 Mar 13
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
loosehead
says...
3:40pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:What about the cutting of those schools by our council to allow other schools to be primary junior schools?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Surely Oaklands school could be used as a primary & Junior school instead of being knocked down?
southy
says...
4:27pm Fri 15 Mar 13
loosehead wrote:that was all under your Tory Council loose, they gave the go ahead to get a new school built, they are the ones that sold the old schools and the land to a private developer
southy wrote:What about the cutting of those schools by our council to allow other schools to be primary junior schools?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Surely Oaklands school could be used as a primary & Junior school instead of being knocked down?
freefinker
says...
4:30pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:.. while I agree with you on national population statistics, and yes it is ridiculous to suggest 'another potential 25 million', do you really think their citizens will be heading for Italy and Spain?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Italy - 11.1% unemployed and rising.
Spain - 26.6% unemployed and rising.
UK - 7.8% unemployment and falling.
Oh yes, Italy and Spain have such wonderful employment prospects. That's why their own youth are leaving in droves for northern Europe.
miltonarcher
says...
4:36pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:I see that chip is still festering. The English hasn't improved either.
loosehead wrote:that was all under your Tory Council loose, they gave the go ahead to get a new school built, they are the ones that sold the old schools and the land to a private developer
southy wrote:What about the cutting of those schools by our council to allow other schools to be primary junior schools?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Surely Oaklands school could be used as a primary & Junior school instead of being knocked down?
southy
says...
5:19pm Fri 15 Mar 13
freefinker wrote:They are more interested in those two countrys "Italy and spain" they have a lot in common and many have relations living in those 2 countrys, than they are in the UK
southy wrote:.. while I agree with you on national population statistics, and yes it is ridiculous to suggest 'another potential 25 million', do you really think their citizens will be heading for Italy and Spain?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Italy - 11.1% unemployed and rising.
Spain - 26.6% unemployed and rising.
UK - 7.8% unemployment and falling.
Oh yes, Italy and Spain have such wonderful employment prospects. That's why their own youth are leaving in droves for northern Europe.
freefinker
says...
5:24pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:.. oh yea? What do they have in common?
freefinker wrote:They are more interested in those two countrys "Italy and spain" they have a lot in common and many have relations living in those 2 countrys, than they are in the UK
southy wrote:.. while I agree with you on national population statistics, and yes it is ridiculous to suggest 'another potential 25 million', do you really think their citizens will be heading for Italy and Spain?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Italy - 11.1% unemployed and rising.
Spain - 26.6% unemployed and rising.
UK - 7.8% unemployment and falling.
Oh yes, Italy and Spain have such wonderful employment prospects. That's why their own youth are leaving in droves for northern Europe.
And how did those 'relations' manage to settle in Italy and Spain under the current EU immigration regulations?
You just make it up as you go along.
southy
says...
5:28pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Spain - 26.6% unemployed and rising. Total figures.
UK - 7.8% unemployment and falling. part figures
how is unemployment falling when there are more people being made unemployed than there is being employed. the only way it is falling is because people are leaving the country for else where in the world.
southy
says...
5:38pm Fri 15 Mar 13
freefinker wrote:Those countrys have all ways had close ties with each other.
southy wrote:.. oh yea? What do they have in common?
freefinker wrote:They are more interested in those two countrys "Italy and spain" they have a lot in common and many have relations living in those 2 countrys, than they are in the UK
southy wrote:.. while I agree with you on national population statistics, and yes it is ridiculous to suggest 'another potential 25 million', do you really think their citizens will be heading for Italy and Spain?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Italy - 11.1% unemployed and rising.
Spain - 26.6% unemployed and rising.
UK - 7.8% unemployment and falling.
Oh yes, Italy and Spain have such wonderful employment prospects. That's why their own youth are leaving in droves for northern Europe.
And how did those 'relations' manage to settle in Italy and Spain under the current EU immigration regulations?
You just make it up as you go along.
and EU immigration rules would not come into it, when you talk about relations in different countrys, and this as been going on long before the EU was though off
freefinker
says...
5:39pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:.. no, the UK statistics show TOTAL unemployment has been falling since October 2011 (when it was 8.4%) to the latest figure of 7.8%.
Italy - 11.1% unemployed and rising. Total figures.
Spain - 26.6% unemployed and rising. Total figures.
UK - 7.8% unemployment and falling. part figures
how is unemployment falling when there are more people being made unemployed than there is being employed. the only way it is falling is because people are leaving the country for else where in the world.
You really do need to get a grip of statistics. They are readily available and accurate. You can't alter them to fit your own political dogma - that's called lying.
And, as the ONS statistics clearly demonstrate, there in net immigration INTO this country, not more leaving. Again, lying will not alter this.
southy
says...
5:47pm Fri 15 Mar 13
And as i have said before the ONS is not a government Dept, its an agency who as the contract with the government.
If you look at the DWP figures they do not match up with the ONS.
southy
says...
5:50pm Fri 15 Mar 13
The hardest one to find out about is the EU countrys, as people move back and forth all the time now
freefinker
says...
6:05pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:.. you keep saying that, but you can’t point us to the page on the ONS website where they claim this, can you?
It was the ONS that gave out those figures of how many romanians and Bulgarians that was heading for the UK in the near future, and UKIP and others pick up on it and used those figures.
And as i have said before the ONS is not a government Dept, its an agency who as the contract with the government.
If you look at the DWP figures they do not match up with the ONS.
The ONS produce the 'Official' statistics FOR government departments. What part of that do you not understand? There are NO other sets of figures and statistics from the UK government. They are a highly respected organisation and recognised as producing fair and accurate national data by all shades of the political spectrum.
‘ONS is the UK’s largest independent producer of official statistics and the recognised national statistical institute of the UK.’ says their website. You really must get over you obsession of believing they are evil capitalists determined to fake all the statistics just to prove you wrong. The actual truth is it is YOU who is almost always wrong, not the ONS.
freefinker
says...
6:11pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:. no, you just need to count those coming into the UK; and those going out. Simple.
To find out the real figures then you have to research other governments around the world, and find out what there influx is and how many are UK people.
The hardest one to find out about is the EU countrys, as people move back and forth all the time now
It's being done, daily, and the ONS produce the accurate official statistics for this exercise.
housewife
says...
7:34pm Fri 15 Mar 13
.
The REAL issue is that Gove has stopped LEAs building Maintaned schools where there is need.
.
only Free Schools and Academies are allowed to open up fresh.
.
THAT is why the schools are where there are profits rather than need.
cmth40
says...
7:44pm Fri 15 Mar 13
lish as gone sky high,we also had the goverment condoning our teenasgers and younger having babes,all at the time for many was a thats ok,well it wasnt,and next year unless our borders are shut tight it will be double the figure they say now with the rest coming here,housing wont be enough either,so more concrete jungles less tree,s and grassed area,s which we need not only to breathe but also to allow our children a childhood and play area,s outside,the eu and politions have killed our country
freefinker
says...
7:46pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:.. no, the ‘350,000 heading for Britain’ was NOT put out by ONS. It was Migration Watch that put out this wild guess of a figure.
It was the ONS that gave out those figures of how many romanians and Bulgarians that was heading for the UK in the near future, and UKIP and others pick up on it and used those figures.
And as i have said before the ONS is not a government Dept, its an agency who as the contract with the government.
If you look at the DWP figures they do not match up with the ONS.
Note that the government in the portly shape of Communities Secretary Eric Pickles have refused to publish the Government's estimates on immigration from Romania and Bulgaria. Do you actually know what that means, southy? It means the ONS have NOT put out ANY statistics on estimates of net immigration from Romania and Bulgaria. Because IF they had these would be the OFFICIAL government estimates. Why? Because the ONS is the OFFICIAL provider of such statistics to the government.
Just because you didn’t understand the statistics on total net migration the ONS put out at the end of February (and thus made a complete fool of yourself by inaccurately referencing your dodgy data to the ONS) is no excuse for you to now shoot the messenger. The ONS were good enough for you to quote when you thought (wrongly) they proved your point; now you rubbish them. Sheer hypocrisy of the highest order.
loosehead
says...
9:13pm Fri 15 Mar 13
housewife wrote:But to set up a Primary school with a junior school all on the site of an existing school building would not cost a penny for the building of a new school would it?
Shut up about the racist anti immigrant stuff.
.
The REAL issue is that Gove has stopped LEAs building Maintaned schools where there is need.
.
only Free Schools and Academies are allowed to open up fresh.
.
THAT is why the schools are where there are profits rather than need.
loosehead
says...
9:17pm Fri 15 Mar 13
southy wrote:Southy the Tories never sold Oaklands to anyone why would this council spend half a million to demolish it if they never owned it?
loosehead wrote:that was all under your Tory Council loose, they gave the go ahead to get a new school built, they are the ones that sold the old schools and the land to a private developer
southy wrote:What about the cutting of those schools by our council to allow other schools to be primary junior schools?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Surely Oaklands school could be used as a primary & Junior school instead of being knocked down?
Here is a purpose built school just sat there which could be ideal to move in an academy primary & junior school or even a free primary & junior school or move a smaller primary & a small junior school into this much bigger school so why aren't they doing it?
southy
says...
11:48am Sat 16 Mar 13
loosehead wrote:Yes they did Loose and is why they spending that money to demolish it, demolishing fulls on the owners hands or to the put into the contract on sold land, and Oaklands and Millbrook schools where sold to a single developer cheap as cleared land, but the city council failed to let the developer know about Millbrook school, that the grounds was lease to a sports company/club, thats why not much is being said about Millbrook school at the moment, and it was a Tory Council that sold the schools, under Royston Smith.
southy wrote:Southy the Tories never sold Oaklands to anyone why would this council spend half a million to demolish it if they never owned it?
loosehead wrote:that was all under your Tory Council loose, they gave the go ahead to get a new school built, they are the ones that sold the old schools and the land to a private developer
southy wrote:What about the cutting of those schools by our council to allow other schools to be primary junior schools?
CharlieOxbridge wrote:Please bring that right wing false propaganda to an end, there are no 25 million Romanians and Bulgarians coming to our shores, Bulgaria had a population of 7,327,224 people in 2012, Romania as a population 19,042,936 in 2011 and was falling, Romania only just recovered from its population levels of 1939 after the Germans killed and murdered 7 million of them in wwii.
It wasn’t that long ago we were reading reports of a mini baby boom from the influx of immigrants from the EU.
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.
That many coming to our shores would leave around the 3 million left in there own country, thats not going to happen, its just right wing false propaganda.
If your relying of that survey that was given out by the ONS its totally false, that survey was done at an air ports and only ask a 1000 people coming and going, It never ask what country they was going to, it only ask would you be working aboard, Most Bulgarians and Romanians that might work aboard will head to Italy as a first choice and Spain as a second choice, where most romanians and Bulgarians are now that work in another country.
Surely Oaklands school could be used as a primary & Junior school instead of being knocked down?
Here is a purpose built school just sat there which could be ideal to move in an academy primary & junior school or even a free primary & junior school or move a smaller primary & a small junior school into this much bigger school so why aren't they doing it?
southy
says...
11:53am Sat 16 Mar 13
loosehead wrote:She right loose, personally my self if a school becomes Academic then the company that is supporting that school for there own benefit should pay 100% outlay for that school and its needs, state money should only go to state schools.
housewife wrote:But to set up a Primary school with a junior school all on the site of an existing school building would not cost a penny for the building of a new school would it?
Shut up about the racist anti immigrant stuff.
.
The REAL issue is that Gove has stopped LEAs building Maintaned schools where there is need.
.
only Free Schools and Academies are allowed to open up fresh.
.
THAT is why the schools are where there are profits rather than need.
southy
says...
11:59am Sat 16 Mar 13
southy
says...
12:02pm Sat 16 Mar 13
southy wrote:And it was put out by ONS about the number that was coming in, UKIP was the first to pick up on it and started to quote the ONS on there figures, and is why there is a government side committee about the ONS on there figures and there contract with the government going on right now, the ONS could be looking at losing the government contract.
freefinker I probley understand it far better than you, I have this personal policy, "dont believe in what you dont see, and only half believe in what you do see" and is the reason why I go a lot deeper than most others, I don't take what i see on the surrface as gospel like you do, I want to know more, like on immergration you can't just look at our Government and its private contractors, you got to look at what other world governments are saying and doing ect ect, you fail big time and you only see a tiny amount of the whole picture. And is why i can say time is on my side and not yours and why you offten turn out to be wrong in the long run.
southy
says...
12:13pm Sat 16 Mar 13
southy wrote:Like I said the ONS as been pick 7 times in the last 3 mths about there figures.
southy wrote:And it was put out by ONS about the number that was coming in, UKIP was the first to pick up on it and started to quote the ONS on there figures, and is why there is a government side committee about the ONS on there figures and there contract with the government going on right now, the ONS could be looking at losing the government contract.
freefinker I probley understand it far better than you, I have this personal policy, "dont believe in what you dont see, and only half believe in what you do see" and is the reason why I go a lot deeper than most others, I don't take what i see on the surrface as gospel like you do, I want to know more, like on immergration you can't just look at our Government and its private contractors, you got to look at what other world governments are saying and doing ect ect, you fail big time and you only see a tiny amount of the whole picture. And is why i can say time is on my side and not yours and why you offten turn out to be wrong in the long run.
Because they are only a contractor agency to the government, they are also allowed to publish other figures that don't come from the government. they can publish both Public and Private figures, and they do not have to keep it how it was writen down to them, they can publish parts or a whole and put it down in there own words.
freefinker
says...
1:04pm Sat 16 Mar 13
southy wrote:Nope, nope, no, no. As I’ve told you, the ONS DID NOT put out any such figures. It was Migration Watch and I bet you can’t find even one reference (not counting your own) that links the ONS to the scaremongering statistics used by UKIP.
southy wrote:And it was put out by ONS about the number that was coming in, UKIP was the first to pick up on it and started to quote the ONS on there figures, and is why there is a government side committee about the ONS on there figures and there contract with the government going on right now, the ONS could be looking at losing the government contract.
freefinker I probley understand it far better than you, I have this personal policy, "dont believe in what you dont see, and only half believe in what you do see" and is the reason why I go a lot deeper than most others, I don't take what i see on the surrface as gospel like you do, I want to know more, like on immergration you can't just look at our Government and its private contractors, you got to look at what other world governments are saying and doing ect ect, you fail big time and you only see a tiny amount of the whole picture. And is why i can say time is on my side and not yours and why you offten turn out to be wrong in the long run.
There’s the challenge; prove me wrong. Go on, just one URL.
freefinker
says...
1:05pm Sat 16 Mar 13
southy wrote:You keep saying this 7 times in the last 3 months. But, despite my challenges you have failed to produce one single shred of evidence to back up this assertion. Bet you can’t back up you position.
southy wrote:Like I said the ONS as been pick 7 times in the last 3 mths about there figures.
southy wrote:And it was put out by ONS about the number that was coming in, UKIP was the first to pick up on it and started to quote the ONS on there figures, and is why there is a government side committee about the ONS on there figures and there contract with the government going on right now, the ONS could be looking at losing the government contract.
freefinker I probley understand it far better than you, I have this personal policy, "dont believe in what you dont see, and only half believe in what you do see" and is the reason why I go a lot deeper than most others, I don't take what i see on the surrface as gospel like you do, I want to know more, like on immergration you can't just look at our Government and its private contractors, you got to look at what other world governments are saying and doing ect ect, you fail big time and you only see a tiny amount of the whole picture. And is why i can say time is on my side and not yours and why you offten turn out to be wrong in the long run.
Because they are only a contractor agency to the government, they are also allowed to publish other figures that don't come from the government. they can publish both Public and Private figures, and they do not have to keep it how it was writen down to them, they can publish parts or a whole and put it down in there own words.
There’s the challenge; prove me wrong. Go on, just one URL.
Regarding you scurrilous assertions about the ONS, it just demonstrates to everyone reading your rubbish that you don’t have the faintest idea what you are talking about and that, yet again, you attack a reputable organisation because the accurate data they produce does not agree with your prejudices and lies.
freefinker
says...
1:13pm Sat 16 Mar 13
southy wrote:.. what a laugh. You might believe your own propaganda and even your own unjustified and glorified opinion of yourself; but you don’t fool anybody else. Made me smile though. How wrong can someone be?
freefinker I probley understand it far better than you, I have this personal policy, "dont believe in what you dont see, and only half believe in what you do see" and is the reason why I go a lot deeper than most others, I don't take what i see on the surrface as gospel like you do, I want to know more, like on immergration you can't just look at our Government and its private contractors, you got to look at what other world governments are saying and doing ect ect, you fail big time and you only see a tiny amount of the whole picture. And is why i can say time is on my side and not yours and why you offten turn out to be wrong in the long run.
southy
says...
1:41pm Sat 16 Mar 13
freefinker wrote:Not as wrong as you.
southy wrote:.. what a laugh. You might believe your own propaganda and even your own unjustified and glorified opinion of yourself; but you don’t fool anybody else. Made me smile though. How wrong can someone be?
freefinker I probley understand it far better than you, I have this personal policy, "dont believe in what you dont see, and only half believe in what you do see" and is the reason why I go a lot deeper than most others, I don't take what i see on the surrface as gospel like you do, I want to know more, like on immergration you can't just look at our Government and its private contractors, you got to look at what other world governments are saying and doing ect ect, you fail big time and you only see a tiny amount of the whole picture. And is why i can say time is on my side and not yours and why you offten turn out to be wrong in the long run.
freefinker
says...
2:41pm Sat 16 Mar 13
southy wrote:.. oh yea? And those two URL's? Come on, PROOVE I am wrong.
freefinker wrote:Not as wrong as you.
southy wrote:.. what a laugh. You might believe your own propaganda and even your own unjustified and glorified opinion of yourself; but you don’t fool anybody else. Made me smile though. How wrong can someone be?
freefinker I probley understand it far better than you, I have this personal policy, "dont believe in what you dont see, and only half believe in what you do see" and is the reason why I go a lot deeper than most others, I don't take what i see on the surrface as gospel like you do, I want to know more, like on immergration you can't just look at our Government and its private contractors, you got to look at what other world governments are saying and doing ect ect, you fail big time and you only see a tiny amount of the whole picture. And is why i can say time is on my side and not yours and why you offten turn out to be wrong in the long run.
freefinker
says...
12:03pm Sun 17 Mar 13
loosehead
says...
10:27pm Sun 17 Mar 13
yet again you've got your facts totally wrong
CharlieOxbridge says...
8:50am Fri 15 Mar 13
.
A few years down the line are we really that surprised to now hear that there is a a strain on Primary School places.
.
Will the EU be funding our new schools and teachers for this? Will they be paying for the houses that need to be built to be able to house these new families? Will they be paying for the extra Dr's and Nurses and Hospitals that are also required?
.
And even further down the line when they turn 16 how are we supposed to get them jobs if the unemployment rate of young people now is anything to go by. So more people on Job Seekers allowance too.
.
Get ready for Romania and Bulgaria, another potential 25 million to add to the pot.