New Forest West MP Desmond Swayne tells teachers: You're lucky to have your jobs

New Forest MP Desmond Swayne

Teacher Tom Roberts

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Education Reporter

TEACHERS threatening to strike in Hampshire have reacted with fury after an MP told them they were lucky to have their jobs.

Responding to a union letter outlining reasons for a planned strike by teachers Desmond Swayne told them they should remember that times were hard.

“You have a job and many don’t,” he said.

The letter was written by the National Union of Teachers and distributed to members and to colleagues in other unions.

Tom Roberts, a teacher at Priestlands School in Lymington for ten years, sent it on to Mr Swayne, New Forest West MP and former Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Prime Minister, to draw his attention to the feeling among teachers.

He said he was shocked by the MP’s blunt reply.

Mr Roberts, 60, said: “I just could not believe his response. He was basically saying that we don’t matter.

“I emailed him back to ask him whether this was really what he meant to say to the people who voted him in.

“I don’t think that someone in his position should be talking to people like this and I would suggest he reviews what he has said.”

Mr Swayne goes on in his rebuke to suggest that by adopting the values of “the shop floor” teachers were undermining their profession.

That view was criticised by union leaders who described the MP’s comments as “bonkers”.

Secretary of Southampton National Union of Teachers Pete Sopowski said: “Mr Swayne would do well to remember that it was the morals of the shop floor on which the wealth of this nation were built.

“It was only by striking that the ladies of Dagenham, for example, secured equal pay for women.”

But last night Mr Swayne, who was a teacher for seven years, stood by his comments.

He told the Daily Echo: “I gave a robust response to a standard union letter which is what people can expect. It would be different if I was sent a personal handwritten letter from a constituent.

“Teachers do have relatively secure jobs and well paid jobs along with a good pension that many people do not have.

“I don’t believe that they can call themselves a profession while at the same time taking strike action.”

The two l a r g e s t unions, the NUT and the NASUWT, have threatened strike action with a rolling programme of walkouts beginning at the end of June.

They have called on Education Secretary Michael Gove to engage in negotiations and discuss their concerns over pensions and the introduction of performance related pay.

Mr Sopowski said teachers were deeply concerned about the changes in the way they would be paid as it would be falling to individual schools to decide pay rates and how the proposed new system would disadvantage those who come back to the profession after a career break.

Comments (65)

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8:28am Thu 21 Mar 13

Forest Resident says...

An elitist Tory effectively calling the working classes 'plebs' yet again, you work for us Mr Swayne, you would do well to remember that before insulting the electorate.
An elitist Tory effectively calling the working classes 'plebs' yet again, you work for us Mr Swayne, you would do well to remember that before insulting the electorate. Forest Resident
  • Score: 0

8:32am Thu 21 Mar 13

cgt says...

'But last night Mr Swayne, who was a teacher for seven years, stood by his comments.' Mr Swayne was a teacher at two exclusive public schools, Charterhouse and Wrekin. His circumstances were completely different to those of the vast majority of teachers and are therefore irrelevant.
'But last night Mr Swayne, who was a teacher for seven years, stood by his comments.' Mr Swayne was a teacher at two exclusive public schools, Charterhouse and Wrekin. His circumstances were completely different to those of the vast majority of teachers and are therefore irrelevant. cgt
  • Score: 0

8:54am Thu 21 Mar 13

Skipper38 says...

Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education.

Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.
Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education. Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case. Skipper38
  • Score: 0

9:15am Thu 21 Mar 13

good-gosh says...

Skipper38 wrote:
Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education.

Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.
I fully agree. They also undermine their image by adopting a childish hurt feelings stance over the comments. They come over as a lot of wimps. Clearly they need a lot more hard criticism to toughen them up for their job
[quote][p][bold]Skipper38[/bold] wrote: Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education. Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.[/p][/quote]I fully agree. They also undermine their image by adopting a childish hurt feelings stance over the comments. They come over as a lot of wimps. Clearly they need a lot more hard criticism to toughen them up for their job good-gosh
  • Score: 0

9:16am Thu 21 Mar 13

batesieboy says...

Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.
Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate. batesieboy
  • Score: 0

9:19am Thu 21 Mar 13

Forest Resident says...

Skipper38 wrote:
Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education.

Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.
Respect works both ways, this government have shown nothing but contempt and condemnation for Teachers and the wider public sector. Industrial action is a last resort but what choice do workers have when the employer refuses to negotiate and presses on blindly with devastating cuts whilst at the same time protecting and enhancing the lifestyles of the rich?
[quote][p][bold]Skipper38[/bold] wrote: Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education. Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.[/p][/quote]Respect works both ways, this government have shown nothing but contempt and condemnation for Teachers and the wider public sector. Industrial action is a last resort but what choice do workers have when the employer refuses to negotiate and presses on blindly with devastating cuts whilst at the same time protecting and enhancing the lifestyles of the rich? Forest Resident
  • Score: 0

9:26am Thu 21 Mar 13

Rockhopper says...

Why all the fuss?
The quote from him is 'You have a job and many don't' which is a fact.
Teachers are well paid and the pension benefits they receive are much better than most.
If you don't like it move on to something else.
Most people have some sort of performance measure in their job and teachers should be no different.
Why all the fuss? The quote from him is 'You have a job and many don't' which is a fact. Teachers are well paid and the pension benefits they receive are much better than most. If you don't like it move on to something else. Most people have some sort of performance measure in their job and teachers should be no different. Rockhopper
  • Score: 0

9:54am Thu 21 Mar 13

MiddleOfRoad says...

I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice. MiddleOfRoad
  • Score: 0

9:57am Thu 21 Mar 13

Dresnez says...

Responding to a union letter outlining reasons for a planned strike by teachers Desmond Swayne told them they should remember that times were hard.

“You have a job and many don’t,” he said.

Of course this doesn't apply to bankers bonuses where Osborne was the only one who voted against a cap on them at the EU summit. I don't hear the Tories saying they are lucky to have a job.

Usual double standards and divide and rule policies from the Tories.
Responding to a union letter outlining reasons for a planned strike by teachers Desmond Swayne told them they should remember that times were hard. “You have a job and many don’t,” he said. Of course this doesn't apply to bankers bonuses where Osborne was the only one who voted against a cap on them at the EU summit. I don't hear the Tories saying they are lucky to have a job. Usual double standards and divide and rule policies from the Tories. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

10:17am Thu 21 Mar 13

Linesman says...

How many on the Government front bench send their children to State Schools?

When you discover the answer, you will understand why Dodgy Desmond made that response.

Just another example of Cameron's claim that, 'We are all in this together.'
How many on the Government front bench send their children to State Schools? When you discover the answer, you will understand why Dodgy Desmond made that response. Just another example of Cameron's claim that, 'We are all in this together.' Linesman
  • Score: 0

10:39am Thu 21 Mar 13

George4th says...

Teachers regard themselves as the "Untouchables"! (Leastways the Left Wing Teacher Unions Do!)
There are many very good teachers and, as with all walks of life, there are some very poor ones.
Ask the question "How many teachers have been sacked since WWII? The average is less than 1 a year!!!!!
Draw your own conclusion!
Teachers regard themselves as the "Untouchables"! (Leastways the Left Wing Teacher Unions Do!) There are many very good teachers and, as with all walks of life, there are some very poor ones. Ask the question "How many teachers have been sacked since WWII? The average is less than 1 a year!!!!! Draw your own conclusion! George4th
  • Score: 0

10:52am Thu 21 Mar 13

business-guru says...

batesieboy wrote:
Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.
I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.
[quote][p][bold]batesieboy[/bold] wrote: Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.[/p][/quote]I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history. business-guru
  • Score: 0

11:11am Thu 21 Mar 13

aldermoorboy says...

This country would prosper without unions.
This country would prosper without unions. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 0

11:29am Thu 21 Mar 13

peenut81 says...

Notice the article fails to mention that the MP in question is a Tory, though it was pretty obvious from the comments.
I love the idea that people should be grateful for a job, yet those at the top are quite happy to support rent seeking parasites and coupon collectors.
Its not the working class who need to be grateful for a job its men like Swayne, Cameron and Osbourne who live of our labour.
Notice the article fails to mention that the MP in question is a Tory, though it was pretty obvious from the comments. I love the idea that people should be grateful for a job, yet those at the top are quite happy to support rent seeking parasites and coupon collectors. Its not the working class who need to be grateful for a job its men like Swayne, Cameron and Osbourne who live of our labour. peenut81
  • Score: 0

11:50am Thu 21 Mar 13

ohec says...

The days when teaching could be called a profession are long gone, today it is just a job like any other and in an effort to raise standards pay will match results and the only people that are frightened by the idea are those that are not good enough to be teachers. For some reason although standards have dropped and children leave school un-equiped to survive in todays work place teachers still expect to be held in the high esteem they once were. Not good enough for the commercial world then become a teacher good pay and conditions and a cracking pension at the end of it, as a society we expect better results than currently being achieved so the teachers instead of moaning and striking should show us what they are worth and we will pay accordingly.
The days when teaching could be called a profession are long gone, today it is just a job like any other and in an effort to raise standards pay will match results and the only people that are frightened by the idea are those that are not good enough to be teachers. For some reason although standards have dropped and children leave school un-equiped to survive in todays work place teachers still expect to be held in the high esteem they once were. Not good enough for the commercial world then become a teacher good pay and conditions and a cracking pension at the end of it, as a society we expect better results than currently being achieved so the teachers instead of moaning and striking should show us what they are worth and we will pay accordingly. ohec
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Thu 21 Mar 13

cgt says...

business-guru wrote:
batesieboy wrote:
Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.
I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.
Oh dear, business-guru! I hope you weren't an English teacher or for long. Must try harder with spelling 'criticism' and 'basically'! Write them out fifty times!
[quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]batesieboy[/bold] wrote: Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.[/p][/quote]I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.[/p][/quote]Oh dear, business-guru! I hope you weren't an English teacher or for long. Must try harder with spelling 'criticism' and 'basically'! Write them out fifty times! cgt
  • Score: 0

12:39pm Thu 21 Mar 13

sparkster says...

I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one
I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one sparkster
  • Score: 0

12:52pm Thu 21 Mar 13

sburman says...

sparkster wrote:
I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one
While I agree that teachers and anybody else that has a more than averagely secure job is lucky these days ( my son has been made redundant twice in three years ) to knock the unions for what they have achieved over the years is wrong.
Most of the rights and working conditions enjoyed my most of us have been obtained through the union movement. It is only when they became overly political, dictatorial and the tail that wagged the dog that people moved away from them.
[quote][p][bold]sparkster[/bold] wrote: I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one[/p][/quote]While I agree that teachers and anybody else that has a more than averagely secure job is lucky these days ( my son has been made redundant twice in three years ) to knock the unions for what they have achieved over the years is wrong. Most of the rights and working conditions enjoyed my most of us have been obtained through the union movement. It is only when they became overly political, dictatorial and the tail that wagged the dog that people moved away from them. sburman
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Thu 21 Mar 13

southy says...

sparkster wrote:
I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one
With out the Unions you would return back to the 1700's very quickly
[quote][p][bold]sparkster[/bold] wrote: I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one[/p][/quote]With out the Unions you would return back to the 1700's very quickly southy
  • Score: 0

1:55pm Thu 21 Mar 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
sparkster wrote:
I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one
With out the Unions you would return back to the 1700's very quickly
You're still in the 1700's even with the Unions ;-)
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sparkster[/bold] wrote: I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one[/p][/quote]With out the Unions you would return back to the 1700's very quickly[/p][/quote]You're still in the 1700's even with the Unions ;-) IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Linesman says...

Skipper38 wrote:
Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education.

Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.
Respect is a two-way street.

The teacher's role has been undermined by parents who do not discipline their children, or teach them to respect others, but are the first ones to claim that teachers should 'teach' discipline, but complain when their child is expelled.

With doctors it is often the case that patients do a 'home diagnosis' by checking their symptoms on the internet, then trying to tell him his/her job.

This lack of respect does not start in the school room or the doctor's surgery, but in the home. A home where, quite often, children have been given money instead of time, by their parents and we are now reaping the rewards.
[quote][p][bold]Skipper38[/bold] wrote: Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education. Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.[/p][/quote]Respect is a two-way street. The teacher's role has been undermined by parents who do not discipline their children, or teach them to respect others, but are the first ones to claim that teachers should 'teach' discipline, but complain when their child is expelled. With doctors it is often the case that patients do a 'home diagnosis' by checking their symptoms on the internet, then trying to tell him his/her job. This lack of respect does not start in the school room or the doctor's surgery, but in the home. A home where, quite often, children have been given money instead of time, by their parents and we are now reaping the rewards. Linesman
  • Score: 0

2:51pm Thu 21 Mar 13

George4th says...

MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
[quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc. George4th
  • Score: 0

2:58pm Thu 21 Mar 13

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
sparkster wrote:
I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one
With out the Unions you would return back to the 1700's very quickly
.. ah, I see. So we would un-invert: -
Railways.
Air travel.
Electricity generation.
The internal combustion engine.
The industrial revolution.
Engines in ships.
Democracy.
Universal suffrage.
The internet.
Anti-biotics.
And everything else in the modern world.

Oh yes, it's only the unions (that didn't exist in 1700, by the way) that gave us all this.

Actually, judging by the Redbridge Trot's friends in Pol Pot's Cambodia, it would seem it's only with what he inaccurately calls 'socialism' that we would return to the 1700's or earlier.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sparkster[/bold] wrote: I agree with skipper and Rockhopper, teachers have jobs and a lot would give anything to have a job, I agree with the MP. I also agree with Aldermoorboy we would prosper without unions, ive never been in a union in any of my jobs and i still wouldnt join one[/p][/quote]With out the Unions you would return back to the 1700's very quickly[/p][/quote].. ah, I see. So we would un-invert: - Railways. Air travel. Electricity generation. The internal combustion engine. The industrial revolution. Engines in ships. Democracy. Universal suffrage. The internet. Anti-biotics. And everything else in the modern world. Oh yes, it's only the unions (that didn't exist in 1700, by the way) that gave us all this. Actually, judging by the Redbridge Trot's friends in Pol Pot's Cambodia, it would seem it's only with what he inaccurately calls 'socialism' that we would return to the 1700's or earlier. freefinker
  • Score: 0

3:02pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Chas O'Bursledon says...

Rockhopper wrote:
Why all the fuss?
The quote from him is 'You have a job and many don't' which is a fact.
Teachers are well paid and the pension benefits they receive are much better than most.
If you don't like it move on to something else.
Most people have some sort of performance measure in their job and teachers should be no different.
They also act in loco parentis. They are trained to a very high standard and take great pride in their work and in the achievements of their students. Michael Gove and this MP have little understanding or regard for what they achieve. I am not surprised that they want to strike. The best asset of any organisation is its people. Undervalue them and disregard them at your peril.
[quote][p][bold]Rockhopper[/bold] wrote: Why all the fuss? The quote from him is 'You have a job and many don't' which is a fact. Teachers are well paid and the pension benefits they receive are much better than most. If you don't like it move on to something else. Most people have some sort of performance measure in their job and teachers should be no different.[/p][/quote]They also act in loco parentis. They are trained to a very high standard and take great pride in their work and in the achievements of their students. Michael Gove and this MP have little understanding or regard for what they achieve. I am not surprised that they want to strike. The best asset of any organisation is its people. Undervalue them and disregard them at your peril. Chas O'Bursledon
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Chas O'Bursledon says...

good-gosh wrote:
Skipper38 wrote:
Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education.

Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.
I fully agree. They also undermine their image by adopting a childish hurt feelings stance over the comments. They come over as a lot of wimps. Clearly they need a lot more hard criticism to toughen them up for their job
I would like to see either of these two last one day in a classroom. I am not a teacher but enjoy working with them as a school governor. The teachers I know, and who are representative of their profession, are hard working, conscientious and highly professional. However, they rightly feel undervalued by the Secretary of State for Education who is trying to academicise teaching. This is not suitable for many children. He is also trying to change their contracts. There is not one person who should have to suffer this whether in the private or public sector. The state of the economy is a world problem caused by greed of bankers, traders and brokers. This government has done little or nothing to create real jobs and growth, so we remain broke. Pay for the public sector, which we need, comes from a strong and growing economy. This government will never achieve this. The sooner they are gone the better.
[quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Skipper38[/bold] wrote: Desmond Swayne is spot on. Teachers enjoy well remunerated, secure jobs. Striking is unprofessional and will merely harm their pupils' education. Teachers, like doctors and other professionals, used to be respected for their contribution to society. Sadly this is no longer the case.[/p][/quote]I fully agree. They also undermine their image by adopting a childish hurt feelings stance over the comments. They come over as a lot of wimps. Clearly they need a lot more hard criticism to toughen them up for their job[/p][/quote]I would like to see either of these two last one day in a classroom. I am not a teacher but enjoy working with them as a school governor. The teachers I know, and who are representative of their profession, are hard working, conscientious and highly professional. However, they rightly feel undervalued by the Secretary of State for Education who is trying to academicise teaching. This is not suitable for many children. He is also trying to change their contracts. There is not one person who should have to suffer this whether in the private or public sector. The state of the economy is a world problem caused by greed of bankers, traders and brokers. This government has done little or nothing to create real jobs and growth, so we remain broke. Pay for the public sector, which we need, comes from a strong and growing economy. This government will never achieve this. The sooner they are gone the better. Chas O'Bursledon
  • Score: 0

3:19pm Thu 21 Mar 13

IronLady2010 says...

I'm surprised we have people wanting to become teachers any more. Many face abuse from their pupils on a daily basis.

They can't discipline the students through fear the parents will be down the school for a fight etc.

My comments aren't always the case as I'm sure most pupils are decent people, but it only takes one to disrupt an entire class.
I'm surprised we have people wanting to become teachers any more. Many face abuse from their pupils on a daily basis. They can't discipline the students through fear the parents will be down the school for a fight etc. My comments aren't always the case as I'm sure most pupils are decent people, but it only takes one to disrupt an entire class. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

3:19pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Nick Tann says...

He's lucky to have his!
He's lucky to have his! Nick Tann
  • Score: 0

3:35pm Thu 21 Mar 13

monkeytennis says...

George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession. monkeytennis
  • Score: 0

4:03pm Thu 21 Mar 13

George4th says...

monkeytennis wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.
You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments!
>
How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you!
>
It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about.
>
You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will...........
[quote][p][bold]monkeytennis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.[/p][/quote]You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments! > How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you! > It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about. > You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will........... George4th
  • Score: 0

4:17pm Thu 21 Mar 13

thinklikealocal says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
This country would prosper without unions.
Germany prospers in partnership with the Unions - Fact. Please explain your reasoning for your 'forecast' the Britain would somehow suddenly 'flourish' without them.
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: This country would prosper without unions.[/p][/quote]Germany prospers in partnership with the Unions - Fact. Please explain your reasoning for your 'forecast' the Britain would somehow suddenly 'flourish' without them. thinklikealocal
  • Score: 0

4:24pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Linesman says...

cgt wrote:
'But last night Mr Swayne, who was a teacher for seven years, stood by his comments.' Mr Swayne was a teacher at two exclusive public schools, Charterhouse and Wrekin. His circumstances were completely different to those of the vast majority of teachers and are therefore irrelevant.
A Knob teaching nobs?
[quote][p][bold]cgt[/bold] wrote: 'But last night Mr Swayne, who was a teacher for seven years, stood by his comments.' Mr Swayne was a teacher at two exclusive public schools, Charterhouse and Wrekin. His circumstances were completely different to those of the vast majority of teachers and are therefore irrelevant.[/p][/quote]A Knob teaching nobs? Linesman
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Linesman says...

George4th wrote:
monkeytennis wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.
You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments!
>
How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you!
>
It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about.
>
You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will...........
With emphasis on the word 'Little'.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]monkeytennis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.[/p][/quote]You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments! > How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you! > It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about. > You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will...........[/p][/quote]With emphasis on the word 'Little'. Linesman
  • Score: 0

4:34pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Linesman says...

business-guru wrote:
batesieboy wrote:
Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.
I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.
A higher income would, or course, had nothing to do with it.

Something tells me that, by the choice of name, 'business-guru' is in the 'selfish bubble' that he claims many of his former teaching colleagues occupied.

Teachers play a large part in the country's future. Poor teachers do not produce good results from their students.

The undervaluing of teachers has resulted in many, who would have entered the teaching profession, to choose other careers where their efforts would be valued.

"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". That is why it takes a really dedicated person to choose this profession, while others who want to be able to buy a house and raise a family, have to look elsewhere.
[quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]batesieboy[/bold] wrote: Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.[/p][/quote]I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.[/p][/quote]A higher income would, or course, had nothing to do with it. Something tells me that, by the choice of name, 'business-guru' is in the 'selfish bubble' that he claims many of his former teaching colleagues occupied. Teachers play a large part in the country's future. Poor teachers do not produce good results from their students. The undervaluing of teachers has resulted in many, who would have entered the teaching profession, to choose other careers where their efforts would be valued. "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". That is why it takes a really dedicated person to choose this profession, while others who want to be able to buy a house and raise a family, have to look elsewhere. Linesman
  • Score: 0

4:35pm Thu 21 Mar 13

JillyBee says...

George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
George4th, it's nice to have some support for teachers, but I can only think you know some very rich ones!

I'm close to retirement, having been teaching since the mid-70s. Admittedly I took some years out to look after my children at home, which hasn't done much for my career, but I don't think I'm that unusual. My salary has never been much above £30,000, and when I retire, my teaching pension will be a little over £5,000 per year. Much better than nothing, and I shall be very pleased to have it, but I don't think it's what most people imagine when you talk of teachers and their "BIG PENSIONS." I don't think we are that poorly paid, but we'd be much better off as London Tube drivers, on a basic £60,000 than having wasted or time getting degrees and PGCEs.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]George4th, it's nice to have some support for teachers, but I can only think you know some very rich ones! I'm close to retirement, having been teaching since the mid-70s. Admittedly I took some years out to look after my children at home, which hasn't done much for my career, but I don't think I'm that unusual. My salary has never been much above £30,000, and when I retire, my teaching pension will be a little over £5,000 per year. Much better than nothing, and I shall be very pleased to have it, but I don't think it's what most people imagine when you talk of teachers and their "BIG PENSIONS." I don't think we are that poorly paid, but we'd be much better off as London Tube drivers, on a basic £60,000 than having wasted or time getting degrees and PGCEs. JillyBee
  • Score: 0

5:15pm Thu 21 Mar 13

George4th says...

Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
monkeytennis wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.
You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments!
>
How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you!
>
It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about.
>
You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will...........
With emphasis on the word 'Little'.
Did you think that response up all by yourself?
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]monkeytennis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.[/p][/quote]You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments! > How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you! > It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about. > You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will...........[/p][/quote]With emphasis on the word 'Little'.[/p][/quote]Did you think that response up all by yourself? George4th
  • Score: 0

5:37pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Linesman says...

George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
monkeytennis wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.
You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments!
>
How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you!
>
It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about.
>
You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will...........
With emphasis on the word 'Little'.
Did you think that response up all by yourself?
Of course.

I do not need help with the obvious.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]monkeytennis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]George4th clearly is commenting on something that he has no knowledge of. Teachers do not have big holidays once you take into account the amount of evening and weekend work that is done in term time through goodwill - FACT. Your average teacher does not earn a huge amount in comparison to other jobs that have the same responsibilities and require the same level of education and qualification. Sick pay is hardly an add on in 2013 is it?!? The pension has been cut recently and is now pretty much standard and you have the opportunity of early retirement if you save your pennies in any profession.[/p][/quote]You are struggling to put forward spurious arguments! > How about you write out the terms and conditions of a teacher? Ask a recently (or a 10 year) retired teacher what their INDEX LINKED pension amounts to! They will be reluctant to tell you! > It may surprise you but I do know a little of what I'm talking about. > You can add that teachers are contracted to work 195 days - make of that what you will...........[/p][/quote]With emphasis on the word 'Little'.[/p][/quote]Did you think that response up all by yourself?[/p][/quote]Of course. I do not need help with the obvious. Linesman
  • Score: 0

5:37pm Thu 21 Mar 13

George4th says...

JillyBee wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
George4th, it's nice to have some support for teachers, but I can only think you know some very rich ones!

I'm close to retirement, having been teaching since the mid-70s. Admittedly I took some years out to look after my children at home, which hasn't done much for my career, but I don't think I'm that unusual. My salary has never been much above £30,000, and when I retire, my teaching pension will be a little over £5,000 per year. Much better than nothing, and I shall be very pleased to have it, but I don't think it's what most people imagine when you talk of teachers and their "BIG PENSIONS." I don't think we are that poorly paid, but we'd be much better off as London Tube drivers, on a basic £60,000 than having wasted or time getting degrees and PGCEs.
" I don't think we are that poorly paid"
Good, because £30,000 is a very good wage, especially with time out for a family. (Well done for doing so).
As it happens, I am very grateful to the teaching profession for educating my children to a very good standard.
>
I said enough to get the picture of the what teachers can earn and the benefits ,and that was for OUTSIDE LONDON! Imagine earnings in London!!!
>
This may surprise you but it was teachers who enabled me to write these comments! :-)
[quote][p][bold]JillyBee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]George4th, it's nice to have some support for teachers, but I can only think you know some very rich ones! I'm close to retirement, having been teaching since the mid-70s. Admittedly I took some years out to look after my children at home, which hasn't done much for my career, but I don't think I'm that unusual. My salary has never been much above £30,000, and when I retire, my teaching pension will be a little over £5,000 per year. Much better than nothing, and I shall be very pleased to have it, but I don't think it's what most people imagine when you talk of teachers and their "BIG PENSIONS." I don't think we are that poorly paid, but we'd be much better off as London Tube drivers, on a basic £60,000 than having wasted or time getting degrees and PGCEs.[/p][/quote]" I don't think we are that poorly paid" Good, because £30,000 is a very good wage, especially with time out for a family. (Well done for doing so). As it happens, I am very grateful to the teaching profession for educating my children to a very good standard. > I said enough to get the picture of the what teachers can earn and the benefits ,and that was for OUTSIDE LONDON! Imagine earnings in London!!! > This may surprise you but it was teachers who enabled me to write these comments! :-) George4th
  • Score: 0

5:40pm Thu 21 Mar 13

business-guru says...

cgt wrote:
business-guru wrote:
batesieboy wrote:
Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.
I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.
Oh dear, business-guru! I hope you weren't an English teacher or for long. Must try harder with spelling 'criticism' and 'basically'! Write them out fifty times!
just very busy and I actually have a life, which is why I don't waste it correcting typos.
[quote][p][bold]cgt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]batesieboy[/bold] wrote: Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.[/p][/quote]I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.[/p][/quote]Oh dear, business-guru! I hope you weren't an English teacher or for long. Must try harder with spelling 'criticism' and 'basically'! Write them out fifty times![/p][/quote]just very busy and I actually have a life, which is why I don't waste it correcting typos. business-guru
  • Score: 0

5:44pm Thu 21 Mar 13

business-guru says...

Linesman wrote:
business-guru wrote:
batesieboy wrote:
Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.
I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.
A higher income would, or course, had nothing to do with it.

Something tells me that, by the choice of name, 'business-guru' is in the 'selfish bubble' that he claims many of his former teaching colleagues occupied.

Teachers play a large part in the country's future. Poor teachers do not produce good results from their students.

The undervaluing of teachers has resulted in many, who would have entered the teaching profession, to choose other careers where their efforts would be valued.

"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". That is why it takes a really dedicated person to choose this profession, while others who want to be able to buy a house and raise a family, have to look elsewhere.
If you seriously think you can pull any knowledge of me from my posting ID then you are a fool. If you must know I inherited it and its ironic. As for "dedicated", replace than with "feels to need to feel dedicated". All professions have their special reuirements teachers are no different from anyone else, they just moan more and think everyone owes them.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]batesieboy[/bold] wrote: Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.[/p][/quote]I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.[/p][/quote]A higher income would, or course, had nothing to do with it. Something tells me that, by the choice of name, 'business-guru' is in the 'selfish bubble' that he claims many of his former teaching colleagues occupied. Teachers play a large part in the country's future. Poor teachers do not produce good results from their students. The undervaluing of teachers has resulted in many, who would have entered the teaching profession, to choose other careers where their efforts would be valued. "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". That is why it takes a really dedicated person to choose this profession, while others who want to be able to buy a house and raise a family, have to look elsewhere.[/p][/quote]If you seriously think you can pull any knowledge of me from my posting ID then you are a fool. If you must know I inherited it and its ironic. As for "dedicated", replace than with "feels to need to feel dedicated". All professions have their special reuirements teachers are no different from anyone else, they just moan more and think everyone owes them. business-guru
  • Score: 0

6:49pm Thu 21 Mar 13

cgt says...

business-guru wrote:
cgt wrote:
business-guru wrote:
batesieboy wrote:
Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.
I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.
Oh dear, business-guru! I hope you weren't an English teacher or for long. Must try harder with spelling 'criticism' and 'basically'! Write them out fifty times!
just very busy and I actually have a life, which is why I don't waste it correcting typos.
Not much loss to the teaching profession, then!
[quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cgt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]batesieboy[/bold] wrote: Skipper38, when were you last a teacher? The respect also needs to come from you, mate.[/p][/quote]I have been a teacher. Most teachers revel in the victim mentality and they moan ALL the time... I left teaching due to this. I could no longer stand the selfish bubble that many live in and their constant need for praise and total rejection of any critisism or request for change was so backward as to be soul destroying. Considering how poor many teachers are , I would say his comments are spot on and only dinosaur socialists continue to liken every teacher with Joan of Arc. Basiclly, most people who don't like their jobs and conditions either shut up and get on with it, or they get another job. Not teachers, they think the world owes them a living and they forget the parents and kids are their customers. In an ideal world state education would be abolished and those stupid 33 "qualities" you need for teacher training consigned to the dustbin of history.[/p][/quote]Oh dear, business-guru! I hope you weren't an English teacher or for long. Must try harder with spelling 'criticism' and 'basically'! Write them out fifty times![/p][/quote]just very busy and I actually have a life, which is why I don't waste it correcting typos.[/p][/quote]Not much loss to the teaching profession, then! cgt
  • Score: 0

6:56pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name. Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Thu 21 Mar 13

George4th says...

Harry Bong wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name.
The average starting salary of a teacher is higher than the average starting salary of a graduate.
>
The average starting salary of a teacher is only a couple of thousand short of the average wage of around £26,000. A teacher can get above the average wage very quickly and go from there - add the EXCELLENT BENEFITS AND PENSION and teachers are in a very good career - with the bonus that they can leave their job and start again at anytime.
[quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name.[/p][/quote]The average starting salary of a teacher is higher than the average starting salary of a graduate. > The average starting salary of a teacher is only a couple of thousand short of the average wage of around £26,000. A teacher can get above the average wage very quickly and go from there - add the EXCELLENT BENEFITS AND PENSION and teachers are in a very good career - with the bonus that they can leave their job and start again at anytime. George4th
  • Score: 0

8:35pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

George4th wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name.
The average starting salary of a teacher is higher than the average starting salary of a graduate.
>
The average starting salary of a teacher is only a couple of thousand short of the average wage of around £26,000. A teacher can get above the average wage very quickly and go from there - add the EXCELLENT BENEFITS AND PENSION and teachers are in a very good career - with the bonus that they can leave their job and start again at anytime.
The so called excellent Benefits and Pension you are referring to is be eroded away all the time as with most jobs in the public sector. Yes you used to be able to get public sector workers retiring on a pension of two thirds salary, now the maximum is only a half salary and that is only on completion of 40 years service. Not many people complete that length of service especially females who take time out to bring up a family. I think you will find that the average pension is only £4-5k, which is hardly enough to live on. Don't forget public sector worker have been on a pay freeze for 3 yrs and will only get a maximum of 1% for the next 2yrs, which equates to a pay cut of in excess of 15% in real terms.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name.[/p][/quote]The average starting salary of a teacher is higher than the average starting salary of a graduate. > The average starting salary of a teacher is only a couple of thousand short of the average wage of around £26,000. A teacher can get above the average wage very quickly and go from there - add the EXCELLENT BENEFITS AND PENSION and teachers are in a very good career - with the bonus that they can leave their job and start again at anytime.[/p][/quote]The so called excellent Benefits and Pension you are referring to is be eroded away all the time as with most jobs in the public sector. Yes you used to be able to get public sector workers retiring on a pension of two thirds salary, now the maximum is only a half salary and that is only on completion of 40 years service. Not many people complete that length of service especially females who take time out to bring up a family. I think you will find that the average pension is only £4-5k, which is hardly enough to live on. Don't forget public sector worker have been on a pay freeze for 3 yrs and will only get a maximum of 1% for the next 2yrs, which equates to a pay cut of in excess of 15% in real terms. Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

8:51pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne says...

t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. . Hercules Grytpype-Thynne
  • Score: 0

9:02pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
[quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding. Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

9:33pm Thu 21 Mar 13

business-guru says...

Harry Bong wrote:
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.
[quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.[/p][/quote]and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding. business-guru
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.
Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.
[quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.[/p][/quote]and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.[/p][/quote]Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were. Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

10:08pm Thu 21 Mar 13

J.P.M says...

I was an IT teacher from 1988 - 1994
~The kids were OK, the parents were useless b******s - but the worst part of the job was having to endure the staffroom.
Loads of beards and fatbirds, moaning about lack of appreciation, whilst planning 36 hour weeks and long holidays.

The institution of UK education needs a shake-up. And those birds need to shave.
I was an IT teacher from 1988 - 1994 ~The kids were OK, the parents were useless b******s - but the worst part of the job was having to endure the staffroom. Loads of beards and fatbirds, moaning about lack of appreciation, whilst planning 36 hour weeks and long holidays. The institution of UK education needs a shake-up. And those birds need to shave. J.P.M
  • Score: 0

10:14pm Thu 21 Mar 13

business-guru says...

Harry Bong wrote:
George4th wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
George4th wrote:
MiddleOfRoad wrote:
I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries.
What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching.
I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person.
And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers.
Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education.
Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.
As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between.
The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.
The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name.
The average starting salary of a teacher is higher than the average starting salary of a graduate.
>
The average starting salary of a teacher is only a couple of thousand short of the average wage of around £26,000. A teacher can get above the average wage very quickly and go from there - add the EXCELLENT BENEFITS AND PENSION and teachers are in a very good career - with the bonus that they can leave their job and start again at anytime.
The so called excellent Benefits and Pension you are referring to is be eroded away all the time as with most jobs in the public sector. Yes you used to be able to get public sector workers retiring on a pension of two thirds salary, now the maximum is only a half salary and that is only on completion of 40 years service. Not many people complete that length of service especially females who take time out to bring up a family. I think you will find that the average pension is only £4-5k, which is hardly enough to live on. Don't forget public sector worker have been on a pay freeze for 3 yrs and will only get a maximum of 1% for the next 2yrs, which equates to a pay cut of in excess of 15% in real terms.
wakey wakey !! EVERYONE's standard of living is potentially being eroded.... unless they do something about it, millions are, they are re-skilling, moving, etc etc etc, not teachers tho , they just stay and MOAN , MOAN , MOAN , MOAN , STRIKE , MOAN , GO-SLOW, MOAN , STRIKE , MOAN , MOAN..... give me a classroom of loud and lively kids any day , but a stafroom of whinging victims ??? torture.....
[quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MiddleOfRoad[/bold] wrote: I fear at the loss of status to Teachers - usually from ill-informed and less educated individuals. Lets get some perspective - teachers get a modest salary - not a good salary given the need for a degree. In comparison other professions receive significantly higher salaries. What other industry requires its most junior staff member - in this case the classroom teacher - to work countless unpaid and unrecognised additional hours at school or at home or requires them to purchase resources, kids treats etc out of their own modest salary. Answer - there is no other industry like Teaching. I fully support teachers, hell I know a few, and they work a lot more hours than the average person. And don't froth at the mouth over the supposed long holidays. Lets just aggregate their days off and compare them to 9 day fortnight workers and their total days off in a year. Guess what the totals are very similar. Hate to bust an urban myth but someone has to stand up for teachers. Remember if it wasn't for the :discretionary goodwill" of Teachers including all of those unpaid hours our state education system would be further in the bucket than it currently is. It is only the teachers who have managed to maintain some degree of respectability for our state education. Species like Swayne have either forgotten what the work lot is of teachers or they are just fools - you make the choice.[/p][/quote]As with all walks of life, you get different levels of effort, and teachers are no different. Their are some who do work very long hours and their are some who do the absolute basic hours, and some in between. The idea that teachers are poorly paid is a myth! The opportunity for advancement is huge together with commensurate salaries - a teacher can earn £56,000 and look at what a Head can earn NOW - £112,000 or more! Plus all the add-ons of more holidays, sick pay, BIG PENSIONS, possible early retirement, paid retirement through ill health etc etc.[/p][/quote]The majority of teachers earn a lot less than the figures you quoted. Hampshire County Council are currently advertising a year leader post which pays £31,000. The majority of teachers work extremely hard for a relatively low wage compared to some. Teachers always have to work long after schools close to pupils and spend lot of time in the school holidays doing preparation work. It is not a 9-3 day as a lot of people think and deserve a lot more respect than they currently get from others especially parents. Desmond Swayne clearly has no respect for anyone in the working classes and unfortunately knows he can say and do what he likes as his constituents are all out of touch with people in the real world in there comfy New Forest homes and would vote for a chimpanzee if it had Tory after its name.[/p][/quote]The average starting salary of a teacher is higher than the average starting salary of a graduate. > The average starting salary of a teacher is only a couple of thousand short of the average wage of around £26,000. A teacher can get above the average wage very quickly and go from there - add the EXCELLENT BENEFITS AND PENSION and teachers are in a very good career - with the bonus that they can leave their job and start again at anytime.[/p][/quote]The so called excellent Benefits and Pension you are referring to is be eroded away all the time as with most jobs in the public sector. Yes you used to be able to get public sector workers retiring on a pension of two thirds salary, now the maximum is only a half salary and that is only on completion of 40 years service. Not many people complete that length of service especially females who take time out to bring up a family. I think you will find that the average pension is only £4-5k, which is hardly enough to live on. Don't forget public sector worker have been on a pay freeze for 3 yrs and will only get a maximum of 1% for the next 2yrs, which equates to a pay cut of in excess of 15% in real terms.[/p][/quote]wakey wakey !! EVERYONE's standard of living is potentially being eroded.... unless they do something about it, millions are, they are re-skilling, moving, etc etc etc, not teachers tho , they just stay and MOAN , MOAN , MOAN , MOAN , STRIKE , MOAN , GO-SLOW, MOAN , STRIKE , MOAN , MOAN..... give me a classroom of loud and lively kids any day , but a stafroom of whinging victims ??? torture..... business-guru
  • Score: 0

10:18pm Thu 21 Mar 13

business-guru says...

Harry Bong wrote:
business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.
Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.
I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector....
[quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.[/p][/quote]and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.[/p][/quote]Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.[/p][/quote]I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector.... business-guru
  • Score: 0

10:28pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.
Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.
I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector....
So not committed to working 60-70hrs a week, you jump ship for an easy life in the private sector, where you don't get the difficult parents, disadvantaged children and the problems this brings.
[quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.[/p][/quote]and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.[/p][/quote]Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.[/p][/quote]I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector....[/p][/quote]So not committed to working 60-70hrs a week, you jump ship for an easy life in the private sector, where you don't get the difficult parents, disadvantaged children and the problems this brings. Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

12:04am Fri 22 Mar 13

George4th says...

Harry Bong wrote:
business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.
Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.
I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector....
So not committed to working 60-70hrs a week, you jump ship for an easy life in the private sector, where you don't get the difficult parents, disadvantaged children and the problems this brings.
You are completely ignoring the views of those who have actually taught in schools! You are making up your own views from whatever tittle tattle you've picked up!
>
On top of what has already been said, I too agree that many Teachers see themselves as victims! And school staff rooms are definitely to be avoided!
[quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.[/p][/quote]and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.[/p][/quote]Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.[/p][/quote]I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector....[/p][/quote]So not committed to working 60-70hrs a week, you jump ship for an easy life in the private sector, where you don't get the difficult parents, disadvantaged children and the problems this brings.[/p][/quote]You are completely ignoring the views of those who have actually taught in schools! You are making up your own views from whatever tittle tattle you've picked up! > On top of what has already been said, I too agree that many Teachers see themselves as victims! And school staff rooms are definitely to be avoided! George4th
  • Score: 0

7:34am Fri 22 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

George4th wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.
Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.
I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector....
So not committed to working 60-70hrs a week, you jump ship for an easy life in the private sector, where you don't get the difficult parents, disadvantaged children and the problems this brings.
You are completely ignoring the views of those who have actually taught in schools! You are making up your own views from whatever tittle tattle you've picked up!
>
On top of what has already been said, I too agree that many Teachers see themselves as victims! And school staff rooms are definitely to be avoided!
I might be disregarding the views of those who taught in schools as I believe it is much more important to listen to the views of those who are currently teaching and are having to face the real issues now
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.[/p][/quote]and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.[/p][/quote]Having been a teacher means you are no longer, so that should mean that you are retired. If you are not retired and you have left the profession, I ask why if it is as good as you make out. If you are retired then for how long? As I said in a previous post the terms and condition are being eroded year on year and not what they once were.[/p][/quote]I did not retire. I still teach in non-state education occasionally and I also privately tutor.I would NEVER return to the state sector....[/p][/quote]So not committed to working 60-70hrs a week, you jump ship for an easy life in the private sector, where you don't get the difficult parents, disadvantaged children and the problems this brings.[/p][/quote]You are completely ignoring the views of those who have actually taught in schools! You are making up your own views from whatever tittle tattle you've picked up! > On top of what has already been said, I too agree that many Teachers see themselves as victims! And school staff rooms are definitely to be avoided![/p][/quote]I might be disregarding the views of those who taught in schools as I believe it is much more important to listen to the views of those who are currently teaching and are having to face the real issues now Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

10:41am Fri 22 Mar 13

Linesman says...

business-guru wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits.
.
By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers.
.
The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school.
.
I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.
and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.
"and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not."

I am glad that I had teachers who knew that you do not start a sentence with a conjunction.

I am also pleased that I was never taught by any teachers with such a superior attitude toward others.

Your last sentence, with it's errors, and your earlier response saying, 'just very busy and I actually have a life, which is why I don't waste it correcting typos." is a pretty good indication that you were not great loss to the teaching, but a gain for students, who would have looked to you to set an example.
[quote][p][bold]business-guru[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: t has been an eye opener reading all these posts about teachers and their overpaid fur lined jobs with great perks and benefits. . By the side of this message board is an advertisement for the OU so any of you who think teaching is such a great life take time out and work your socks off and get a degree and then spend another year training to be a teacher and then you can work sixty hours a week for the children of abusive parents and insultingly rude Echo readers who believe all the myths the Daily Mail and the Tory politicians tell them about teachers. . The saddest reflection on the teaching profession is the appallingly low standard of many of the contributions to this thread. That is based on the assumption that many of you actually paid any attention when you were at school. .[/p][/quote]I quite agree, there are some people on here who need to wake up and smell the coffee. For the number of hours that each teacher puts in the rewards are not as good as what some people make out and yes Parents are often rude, arrogant and very demanding.[/p][/quote]and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not. Teacher do NOT work on average any more hours in a year than anyone else. They suffer no more "abuse" that anyone else in any other profession on average. The ONLY difference is that they prefer to stay and "suffer" and moan rather than move to another job. They stay because they never get sacked no matter how bad they are, they get a better pension than most and they get paid a lot of money if they get any way up the ladder for basically repeating stuff year after year. Parents ae the customers, so have every rigth to be demanding.[/p][/quote]"and having been a teacher I know what I am talking about whereas most of you do not." I am glad that I had teachers who knew that you do not start a sentence with a conjunction. I am also pleased that I was never taught by any teachers with such a superior attitude toward others. Your last sentence, with it's errors, and your earlier response saying, 'just very busy and I actually have a life, which is why I don't waste it correcting typos." is a pretty good indication that you were not great loss to the teaching, but a gain for students, who would have looked to you to set an example. Linesman
  • Score: 0

12:12pm Fri 22 Mar 13

George4th says...

If that's all Harry Bong and Linesman can contribute in the way of comments, why do they bother?!

No facts, just spurious meaningless asides that have no worth to anyone............
If that's all Harry Bong and Linesman can contribute in the way of comments, why do they bother?! No facts, just spurious meaningless asides that have no worth to anyone............ George4th
  • Score: 0

2:59pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT
I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Fri 22 Mar 13

George4th says...

Harry Bong wrote:
I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT
Start quoting some facts!
For example, you say that the Public Sector is low paid.
In 2011 the the Public Sector averaged £28,802 compared to £25,000 in the Private Sector - a difference of £3,802!
PLUS, the Public Sector, on average, works 3.2 hours less than the Private Sector..............
..............

Pensions
23 million employed in the private sector - only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer.
5.3 million of the other 6 million in the Public Sector save in a workplace pension scheme. ...............

Conclusion? The Public Sector, with added benefits, have it cushy!!!
[quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT[/p][/quote]Start quoting some facts! For example, you say that the Public Sector is low paid. In 2011 the the Public Sector averaged £28,802 compared to £25,000 in the Private Sector - a difference of £3,802! PLUS, the Public Sector, on average, works 3.2 hours less than the Private Sector.............. .............. Pensions 23 million employed in the private sector - only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer. 5.3 million of the other 6 million in the Public Sector save in a workplace pension scheme. ............... Conclusion? The Public Sector, with added benefits, have it cushy!!! George4th
  • Score: 0

6:19pm Fri 22 Mar 13

cgt says...

Fortunately for Desmond Swayne very few teachers would be able to afford homes in his constituency (New Forest West) and couldn't therfore help vote this buffoon out of office in the next General Election.
Fortunately for Desmond Swayne very few teachers would be able to afford homes in his constituency (New Forest West) and couldn't therfore help vote this buffoon out of office in the next General Election. cgt
  • Score: 0

7:55pm Fri 22 Mar 13

cgt says...

*therefore Oops!
*therefore Oops! cgt
  • Score: 0

9:39pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Harry Bong says...

George4th wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT
Start quoting some facts!
For example, you say that the Public Sector is low paid.
In 2011 the the Public Sector averaged £28,802 compared to £25,000 in the Private Sector - a difference of £3,802!
PLUS, the Public Sector, on average, works 3.2 hours less than the Private Sector..............

..............

Pensions
23 million employed in the private sector - only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer.
5.3 million of the other 6 million in the Public Sector save in a workplace pension scheme. ...............

Conclusion? The Public Sector, with added benefits, have it cushy!!!
Fact, according to the top 400 professions in the this is money list the teaching average is 33,274 for secondary schools and 32,105 for other teaching professional and are 111 and 123 in the list respectively. Most of the professions above it are private sector and since these figure are an average and head teachers earn considerably more the basic salary of a teacher is far less. But you can say what you like as anyone with an ounce of sense can twist figures to suit there own argument. What is happening here is that too many people like yourself and Des Swayne have no respect for people doing difficult jobs in a difficult climate.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT[/p][/quote]Start quoting some facts! For example, you say that the Public Sector is low paid. In 2011 the the Public Sector averaged £28,802 compared to £25,000 in the Private Sector - a difference of £3,802! PLUS, the Public Sector, on average, works 3.2 hours less than the Private Sector.............. .............. Pensions 23 million employed in the private sector - only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer. 5.3 million of the other 6 million in the Public Sector save in a workplace pension scheme. ............... Conclusion? The Public Sector, with added benefits, have it cushy!!![/p][/quote]Fact, according to the top 400 professions in the this is money list the teaching average is 33,274 for secondary schools and 32,105 for other teaching professional and are 111 and 123 in the list respectively. Most of the professions above it are private sector and since these figure are an average and head teachers earn considerably more the basic salary of a teacher is far less. But you can say what you like as anyone with an ounce of sense can twist figures to suit there own argument. What is happening here is that too many people like yourself and Des Swayne have no respect for people doing difficult jobs in a difficult climate. Harry Bong
  • Score: 0

10:25pm Fri 22 Mar 13

George4th says...

Harry Bong wrote:
George4th wrote:
Harry Bong wrote:
I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT
Start quoting some facts!
For example, you say that the Public Sector is low paid.
In 2011 the the Public Sector averaged £28,802 compared to £25,000 in the Private Sector - a difference of £3,802!
PLUS, the Public Sector, on average, works 3.2 hours less than the Private Sector..............


..............

Pensions
23 million employed in the private sector - only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer.
5.3 million of the other 6 million in the Public Sector save in a workplace pension scheme. ...............

Conclusion? The Public Sector, with added benefits, have it cushy!!!
Fact, according to the top 400 professions in the this is money list the teaching average is 33,274 for secondary schools and 32,105 for other teaching professional and are 111 and 123 in the list respectively. Most of the professions above it are private sector and since these figure are an average and head teachers earn considerably more the basic salary of a teacher is far less. But you can say what you like as anyone with an ounce of sense can twist figures to suit there own argument. What is happening here is that too many people like yourself and Des Swayne have no respect for people doing difficult jobs in a difficult climate.
I respect good teachers - I have already said that I am very grateful to the teachers who educated my children to a very good level.

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.

For the final time - teachers are paid, according to your figures, £7,000 to £8,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

You earn respect, you do not get handed it...............
[quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry Bong[/bold] wrote: I have quoted facts earlier about the numbers of hours worked by our teaching staff. What I am getting fed up with is people like Desmond Swayne going on about how lucky we are. The public service sector pensions are not as gold plated as some may think. Public Sector workers are losing jobs, work for relatively low pay, yet some think we are lucky to have them. I agree that there are a lot of civil servants sitting in Whitehall earning a fortune for doing relatively little, but they are not to be confused with the thousands of teachers, Teaching assistants, social workers, refuse collectors etc. who are doing a valuable service for this country. They deserve our RESPECT[/p][/quote]Start quoting some facts! For example, you say that the Public Sector is low paid. In 2011 the the Public Sector averaged £28,802 compared to £25,000 in the Private Sector - a difference of £3,802! PLUS, the Public Sector, on average, works 3.2 hours less than the Private Sector.............. .............. Pensions 23 million employed in the private sector - only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer. 5.3 million of the other 6 million in the Public Sector save in a workplace pension scheme. ............... Conclusion? The Public Sector, with added benefits, have it cushy!!![/p][/quote]Fact, according to the top 400 professions in the this is money list the teaching average is 33,274 for secondary schools and 32,105 for other teaching professional and are 111 and 123 in the list respectively. Most of the professions above it are private sector and since these figure are an average and head teachers earn considerably more the basic salary of a teacher is far less. But you can say what you like as anyone with an ounce of sense can twist figures to suit there own argument. What is happening here is that too many people like yourself and Des Swayne have no respect for people doing difficult jobs in a difficult climate.[/p][/quote]I respect good teachers - I have already said that I am very grateful to the teachers who educated my children to a very good level. I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them. For the final time - teachers are paid, according to your figures, £7,000 to £8,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! You earn respect, you do not get handed it............... George4th
  • Score: 0

4:05pm Mon 25 Mar 13

sparkster says...

I couldnt care less Ironlady if you feel im in the 1700"s i still stand by what i said about unions i still wouldnt join one
I couldnt care less Ironlady if you feel im in the 1700"s i still stand by what i said about unions i still wouldnt join one sparkster
  • Score: 0

10:22am Sat 30 Mar 13

simmo707 says...

BROKEN BRITAIN UNDER TORIES – EXPERIENCE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR EGO
Both Cameron and Blair’s lack of Managerial Political and Life Experience has been their downfall coupled with the lure of the trappings of Power and Privilege and the overriding factor both are vain and egoistical did not help .Neither of the pair had in depth experience as a Minister but being backroom Lackies to others gave neither any insight into the top job .Their lack of Knowledge both National and International made them non starters from the off .Ed Miliband is of the same ilk – to Govern a Country you need to be Mature ,Strong and see both sides of the coin – only age brings Maturity .The Younger the more Impulsive. www.broken britainundertories.c
om
BROKEN BRITAIN UNDER TORIES – EXPERIENCE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR EGO Both Cameron and Blair’s lack of Managerial Political and Life Experience has been their downfall coupled with the lure of the trappings of Power and Privilege and the overriding factor both are vain and egoistical did not help .Neither of the pair had in depth experience as a Minister but being backroom Lackies to others gave neither any insight into the top job .Their lack of Knowledge both National and International made them non starters from the off .Ed Miliband is of the same ilk – to Govern a Country you need to be Mature ,Strong and see both sides of the coin – only age brings Maturity .The Younger the more Impulsive. www.broken britainundertories.c om simmo707
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Sun 7 Apr 13

simmo707 says...

BROKEN BRITAIN UNDER TORIES – HOW IT HAPPENED IN GERMANY
We the General Public in Britain are Britain but at present we are RULED by a minority Government that have turned its Employees on the attack of people using their services .Jobcentre Staff are sanctioning Claimants by the thousands each week .Atos continue to assist in claimants Deaths and find terminally ill people ‘fit for work’ .Nicholson still at the Helm of the NHS after being responsible for over a thousand deaths .Blair guilty of selling Peerages for Policy Support in the House of Lords .People without relatives knowledge put on the Liverpool Care Pathway .This is not alarmist but fact.
So we have a totalitarian Government because we have no credible Opposition – they are all swimming in the same pond .We need a Collective Voice to prevent this Rot progressing any further ,we won the war against Fascism once this is another. Do they actually want Civil Unrest ? www.brokenbritainund
ertories.com
BROKEN BRITAIN UNDER TORIES – HOW IT HAPPENED IN GERMANY We the General Public in Britain are Britain but at present we are RULED by a minority Government that have turned its Employees on the attack of people using their services .Jobcentre Staff are sanctioning Claimants by the thousands each week .Atos continue to assist in claimants Deaths and find terminally ill people ‘fit for work’ .Nicholson still at the Helm of the NHS after being responsible for over a thousand deaths .Blair guilty of selling Peerages for Policy Support in the House of Lords .People without relatives knowledge put on the Liverpool Care Pathway .This is not alarmist but fact. So we have a totalitarian Government because we have no credible Opposition – they are all swimming in the same pond .We need a Collective Voice to prevent this Rot progressing any further ,we won the war against Fascism once this is another. Do they actually want Civil Unrest ? www.brokenbritainund ertories.com simmo707
  • Score: 0

10:57am Mon 15 Apr 13

simmo707 says...

BROKEN BRITAIN UNDER TORIES – WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY PAY MP’S FOR ?
Cameron ,Clegg ,Miliband and the rest of the Bunch are not in real life as they appear in their roles as Politicians .If any of us were given a researcher a secretary our own office and advice on how to present ourselves in dress and speech tempted by high pay and low work output we would jump at the chance .A new Politician is only on the fringes of Corruption until he gets to Parliament ,like all novices they have very good ideas on what changes are needed and enter Parliament with that intension until they end up being disillusioned and told to ‘Toe the Party Line’ .Some eventually reach the status of past masters such as ID Smith for example a Liar ,Public Purse Thief ,hypocrite and self delusionist .D.Miliband on the other hand because he couldn’t have the top prize ,Leader he just upped sticks and moved to the USA to work for a charity ,what happened to his commitment to help Britain his Country out of the doldrums ,like most he had no commitment in the first place .
www.brokenbritainund
ertories.com .
BROKEN BRITAIN UNDER TORIES – WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY PAY MP’S FOR ? Cameron ,Clegg ,Miliband and the rest of the Bunch are not in real life as they appear in their roles as Politicians .If any of us were given a researcher a secretary our own office and advice on how to present ourselves in dress and speech tempted by high pay and low work output we would jump at the chance .A new Politician is only on the fringes of Corruption until he gets to Parliament ,like all novices they have very good ideas on what changes are needed and enter Parliament with that intension until they end up being disillusioned and told to ‘Toe the Party Line’ .Some eventually reach the status of past masters such as ID Smith for example a Liar ,Public Purse Thief ,hypocrite and self delusionist .D.Miliband on the other hand because he couldn’t have the top prize ,Leader he just upped sticks and moved to the USA to work for a charity ,what happened to his commitment to help Britain his Country out of the doldrums ,like most he had no commitment in the first place . www.brokenbritainund ertories.com . simmo707
  • Score: 0

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