UPDATED: Road reopens after horror ambulance crash kills two

The closed A337 adjacent to Balmer Lawn Road

Police at the scene

The crash scene

First published in News
Last updated

A MAJOR New Forest road has now reopened - more than seven hours after an ambulance hit a tree killing its driver and a patient onboard.

The A337 was closed between Lyndhurst and Brockenhurst after the crash at 9.35am.

The female driver of the ambulance and an elderly male patient travelling in the rear, died at the scene.

A male crew member and a male relative of the patient - who were both in the back of the ambulance - sustained serious injuries.

The crew member was airlifted to Southampton General Hospital and the other man was taken by ambulance.

A police spokesman at the scene told the Daily Echo a 25-year-old man from Brockenhurst was arrested on suspicion of causing death by driving without due care and attention. He has been taken into custody.

They added the car he was driving - a blue Seat Alhambra - was involved in a minor collision with the ambulance, which collided with a tree.

The accident occured  at the A337's junction with New Park. The ambulance was travelling north when the accident occured.

The vehicle could be seen on the verge pointing slightly down towards a fence and tree. Blankets had been placed around it.

It was later screened from view.

At its peak, around 30 emergency crew staff were at the scene.

Forensic investigations have been carried out.

An ambulance spokesman said: "A double crewed ambulance belonging to South Central Ambulance Service NHS Foundation Trust (SCAS) was involved in a collision with a tree on the A337
Brockenhurst to Lyndhurst road at 09.35 this morning.
 

"The ambulance was en route to Southampton General Hospital at the time of the
incident conveying an elderly male patient. The patient was accompanied in the
ambulance by a relative.
 

"A female member of the ambulance crew and the elderly male patient were
pronounced dead at scene.
 

"A male relative of the deceased patient was collared and boarded at scene and has
been conveyed to Southampton General Hospital by land ambulance.
 

A male ambulance crew member has been airlifted to Southampton General
Hospital by the Hampshire and Isle of Wight Air Ambulance (Helimed 56).
South Central Ambulance Service NHS Foundation Trust is conducting appropriate
welfare checks with the families of all involved. "
 

 

Traffic was diverted from Brockenhurst to Beaulieu and heavy goods vehcles were directed through Lymington to Beaulieu. Traffic heading south was diverted to the A35 to New Milton.

Comments (73)

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12:07pm Fri 26 Apr 13

ReverendPaul says...

Very sad For anyone affected by the loss of people in this accident or in other accidents, there is a free support group and 121 counselling available. http://sebsbereaveme
ntservices.btck.co.u
k/AccidentSupport
Very sad For anyone affected by the loss of people in this accident or in other accidents, there is a free support group and 121 counselling available. http://sebsbereaveme ntservices.btck.co.u k/AccidentSupport ReverendPaul
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Fri 26 Apr 13

chrisja says...

It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster
It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster chrisja
  • Score: 0

12:46pm Fri 26 Apr 13

trulysaintly says...

chrisja wrote:
It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster
That particular stretch of road is fenced so unlikely animals would have played a part.

Speed - granted. Definitely an issue on that road...but usually by those who have the patience levels of a gnat and can't bear to sit behind anyone.

No-one knows yet what really happened.
[quote][p][bold]chrisja[/bold] wrote: It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster[/p][/quote]That particular stretch of road is fenced so unlikely animals would have played a part. Speed - granted. Definitely an issue on that road...but usually by those who have the patience levels of a gnat and can't bear to sit behind anyone. No-one knows yet what really happened. trulysaintly
  • Score: 0

12:48pm Fri 26 Apr 13

minnie64 says...

chrisja wrote:
It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster
Cant see a mention of a horse !!!
[quote][p][bold]chrisja[/bold] wrote: It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster[/p][/quote]Cant see a mention of a horse !!! minnie64
  • Score: 0

1:34pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sotonbusdriver says...

Such a sad incident.
I hope those that were rescued alive, continue to survive.
I hope that the driver arrested at the scene has the book THROWN at him.
I am afraid it is rapidly becoming a problem, of other road users not giving way to emergency vehicles and in general driving as if they were the only people on the roads.
Strong driving tests with regards to attention to roads and conditions is needed.
To much attention to technical driving and parking takes president to really looking and listening to what is going on.
Sympathy to the relatives of the deceased.....
Such a sad incident. I hope those that were rescued alive, continue to survive. I hope that the driver arrested at the scene has the book THROWN at him. I am afraid it is rapidly becoming a problem, of other road users not giving way to emergency vehicles and in general driving as if they were the only people on the roads. Strong driving tests with regards to attention to roads and conditions is needed. To much attention to technical driving and parking takes president to really looking and listening to what is going on. Sympathy to the relatives of the deceased..... sotonbusdriver
  • Score: 0

2:12pm Fri 26 Apr 13

The Phantomerer says...

sotonbusdriver wrote:
Such a sad incident.
I hope those that were rescued alive, continue to survive.
I hope that the driver arrested at the scene has the book THROWN at him.
I am afraid it is rapidly becoming a problem, of other road users not giving way to emergency vehicles and in general driving as if they were the only people on the roads.
Strong driving tests with regards to attention to roads and conditions is needed.
To much attention to technical driving and parking takes president to really looking and listening to what is going on.
Sympathy to the relatives of the deceased.....
Umm...there is a big difference between being arrested and being guilty.
[quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: Such a sad incident. I hope those that were rescued alive, continue to survive. I hope that the driver arrested at the scene has the book THROWN at him. I am afraid it is rapidly becoming a problem, of other road users not giving way to emergency vehicles and in general driving as if they were the only people on the roads. Strong driving tests with regards to attention to roads and conditions is needed. To much attention to technical driving and parking takes president to really looking and listening to what is going on. Sympathy to the relatives of the deceased.....[/p][/quote]Umm...there is a big difference between being arrested and being guilty. The Phantomerer
  • Score: 0

2:14pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Rainyday says...

Thoughts and prayers to all those involved in this tragedy and to their families and friends. R.I.P
Thoughts and prayers to all those involved in this tragedy and to their families and friends. R.I.P Rainyday
  • Score: 0

2:14pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sameoldscene says...

I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.
I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life. sameoldscene
  • Score: 0

2:39pm Fri 26 Apr 13

tatankauk says...

As someone who travels to hospital with the hospital transport scheme a number of times a month I must say the crews of the Ambulance Service (and of all the emergency services members for that matter) are totally dedicated to the safety of the patients they carry. May those injured make a speedy recovery and whose who sadly passed away Rest In Peace.
As someone who travels to hospital with the hospital transport scheme a number of times a month I must say the crews of the Ambulance Service (and of all the emergency services members for that matter) are totally dedicated to the safety of the patients they carry. May those injured make a speedy recovery and whose who sadly passed away Rest In Peace. tatankauk
  • Score: 0

2:41pm Fri 26 Apr 13

paracletegirl says...

So sad and such a waste of talented gifts. Having worked with these dedicated individuals I can say first hand they give their all and then some.
Utterly tragic.
So sad and such a waste of talented gifts. Having worked with these dedicated individuals I can say first hand they give their all and then some. Utterly tragic. paracletegirl
  • Score: 0

3:04pm Fri 26 Apr 13

ohec says...

The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
I take it your life has never been saved by what you term as dangerous idiots all the emergency services do a fantastic job, and with the amount of miles covered its a sad fact of life that we are going to have a few accidents.
I was taught to drive and not only read the road ahead but also to listen to my vehicle and at all times be aware of what is going on around me, but today people play music so loud they wouldn't know if a wheel fell of until the car dropped likewise cyclist with headphones in a world of their own would they' can they hear whats going on around them while having their ears bombarded with music. We do not know the cause of this tragic accident but we do know that an angel of mercy has sadly lost her life in pursuit of helping others.
[quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]I take it your life has never been saved by what you term as dangerous idiots all the emergency services do a fantastic job, and with the amount of miles covered its a sad fact of life that we are going to have a few accidents. I was taught to drive and not only read the road ahead but also to listen to my vehicle and at all times be aware of what is going on around me, but today people play music so loud they wouldn't know if a wheel fell of until the car dropped likewise cyclist with headphones in a world of their own would they' can they hear whats going on around them while having their ears bombarded with music. We do not know the cause of this tragic accident but we do know that an angel of mercy has sadly lost her life in pursuit of helping others. ohec
  • Score: 0

3:29pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Donald2000 says...

chrisja wrote:
It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster
What you have stated is pure speculation; unless and until you are appointed by Hampshire Constabulary as a roads policing investigative officer I suggest you don't indulge in such speculation, which leads to relatives being upset. You don't know the facts of the case and neither do I.
[quote][p][bold]chrisja[/bold] wrote: It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster[/p][/quote]What you have stated is pure speculation; unless and until you are appointed by Hampshire Constabulary as a roads policing investigative officer I suggest you don't indulge in such speculation, which leads to relatives being upset. You don't know the facts of the case and neither do I. Donald2000
  • Score: 0

3:31pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Donald2000 says...

sameoldscene wrote:
I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.
If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving.
[quote][p][bold]sameoldscene[/bold] wrote: I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.[/p][/quote]If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving. Donald2000
  • Score: 0

3:43pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Sotonguy says...

I think this is a time to think of the families and friends and work colleagues of the people who tragically died and not bickering about the possible causes of the accident. This can be dealt with by the police and not by some idiot who thinks we are idiots behind the wheel of an ambulance. my prayers go out to everyone involved in the accident and to their rescuers.
I think this is a time to think of the families and friends and work colleagues of the people who tragically died and not bickering about the possible causes of the accident. This can be dealt with by the police and not by some idiot who thinks we are idiots behind the wheel of an ambulance. my prayers go out to everyone involved in the accident and to their rescuers. Sotonguy
  • Score: 0

3:49pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Torchie1 says...

Donald2000 wrote:
chrisja wrote:
It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster
What you have stated is pure speculation; unless and until you are appointed by Hampshire Constabulary as a roads policing investigative officer I suggest you don't indulge in such speculation, which leads to relatives being upset. You don't know the facts of the case and neither do I.
One thing that isn't subject to speculation is that this stretch of road is reached after passing signs indicating that "National speed limit applies"
[quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chrisja[/bold] wrote: It's surprising how many fatal accidents there are in the New Forest given the low speed limits - there again free roaming horses, a wet road and a fast ambulance is a recipe for disaster[/p][/quote]What you have stated is pure speculation; unless and until you are appointed by Hampshire Constabulary as a roads policing investigative officer I suggest you don't indulge in such speculation, which leads to relatives being upset. You don't know the facts of the case and neither do I.[/p][/quote]One thing that isn't subject to speculation is that this stretch of road is reached after passing signs indicating that "National speed limit applies" Torchie1
  • Score: 0

3:52pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Frank28 says...

How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.
How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should. Frank28
  • Score: 0

4:11pm Fri 26 Apr 13

allison.luella says...

Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!!
They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!!
Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!! allison.luella
  • Score: 0

4:20pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
[quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

4:21pm Fri 26 Apr 13

foresthorse says...

allison.luella wrote:
Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!!
They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!!
Easy tigress! They've only arrested someone. Don't stick your black cap on just yet.
[quote][p][bold]allison.luella[/bold] wrote: Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!![/p][/quote]Easy tigress! They've only arrested someone. Don't stick your black cap on just yet. foresthorse
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Fri 26 Apr 13

minnie64 says...

allison.luella wrote:
Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!!
Yes someone has been arrested - you say 'lets hope they are found guilty'!! What if they are innocent - what a stupid statement to make - you do realise that sometime people are arrested and are later found to be not guilty - why does everyone speculate when they dont know the true circumstances - suggest it is left to the professionals.
[quote][p][bold]allison.luella[/bold] wrote: Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!![/p][/quote]Yes someone has been arrested - you say 'lets hope they are found guilty'!! What if they are innocent - what a stupid statement to make - you do realise that sometime people are arrested and are later found to be not guilty - why does everyone speculate when they dont know the true circumstances - suggest it is left to the professionals. minnie64
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Fri 26 Apr 13

ohec says...

allison.luella wrote:
Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!!
They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!!
Jumping the gun a bit i think because someone has been arrested it doesn't mean anything other than give the Police the option of bringing charges at a later date, whilst everybody understandably sympathises with those who lost their lives and those injured the arrested man could be totally innocent and suffering as well so until we know the facts he should be treated as a victim as well.
[quote][p][bold]allison.luella[/bold] wrote: Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!![/p][/quote]Jumping the gun a bit i think because someone has been arrested it doesn't mean anything other than give the Police the option of bringing charges at a later date, whilst everybody understandably sympathises with those who lost their lives and those injured the arrested man could be totally innocent and suffering as well so until we know the facts he should be treated as a victim as well. ohec
  • Score: 0

4:41pm Fri 26 Apr 13

george h says...

allison.luella wrote:
Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!!
They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!!
Moron.

The driver arrested is innocent until proven guilty. No by you or even the police, but by a court of law.

I've no doubt that the driver was arrested merely to permit police to interview him and gather evidence. It's not a verdict of guilty you moron.
[quote][p][bold]allison.luella[/bold] wrote: Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!![/p][/quote]Moron. The driver arrested is innocent until proven guilty. No by you or even the police, but by a court of law. I've no doubt that the driver was arrested merely to permit police to interview him and gather evidence. It's not a verdict of guilty you moron. george h
  • Score: 0

4:42pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

allison.luella wrote:
Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!!
They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!!
Ah that will be the same people who claim that the tree jumped out and hit them as they were driving past.
[quote][p][bold]allison.luella[/bold] wrote: Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!![/p][/quote]Ah that will be the same people who claim that the tree jumped out and hit them as they were driving past. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

4:43pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Huey says...

very sad, but hardly suprising given the terrible standard of driving I witness daily on our roads.
very sad, but hardly suprising given the terrible standard of driving I witness daily on our roads. Huey
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Fri 26 Apr 13

khmer saint says...

Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
[quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P. khmer saint
  • Score: 0

4:54pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Norahbatty says...

Donald2000 wrote:
sameoldscene wrote:
I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.
If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving.
I dont think this was a reference to the ambulance driver
[quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sameoldscene[/bold] wrote: I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.[/p][/quote]If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving.[/p][/quote]I dont think this was a reference to the ambulance driver Norahbatty
  • Score: 0

4:55pm Fri 26 Apr 13

george h says...

Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel".

There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life.

My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up.

Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle.

I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away.

Again, you couldn't make it up.
Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel". There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life. My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up. Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle. I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away. Again, you couldn't make it up. george h
  • Score: 0

5:17pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

Sotonguy wrote:
I think this is a time to think of the families and friends and work colleagues of the people who tragically died and not bickering about the possible causes of the accident. This can be dealt with by the police and not by some idiot who thinks we are idiots behind the wheel of an ambulance. my prayers go out to everyone involved in the accident and to their rescuers.
Sotonguy the idiots I have met on the roads have never ever been behind the wheel of an ambulance, and I been driving 40 plus years.

Such sad news. Condolences to all affected and prayers too.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonguy[/bold] wrote: I think this is a time to think of the families and friends and work colleagues of the people who tragically died and not bickering about the possible causes of the accident. This can be dealt with by the police and not by some idiot who thinks we are idiots behind the wheel of an ambulance. my prayers go out to everyone involved in the accident and to their rescuers.[/p][/quote]Sotonguy the idiots I have met on the roads have never ever been behind the wheel of an ambulance, and I been driving 40 plus years. Such sad news. Condolences to all affected and prayers too. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

5:19pm Fri 26 Apr 13

SRH74 says...

Looking at the picture, both vehicles travelling in the same direction. Add the police spokesman statement adding the car he was driving - a blue Seat Alhambra - was involved in a minor collision with the ambulance, which collided with a tree. My assumption would therefore be that the ambulance was side swiped or had to swerve to avoid car - hence undue care & attention arrest which they have to do if they charge in the future.

Anyway enough speculation 2 people have lost their lives and 2 are seriously injured. Thoughts with all concerned.
Looking at the picture, both vehicles travelling in the same direction. Add the police spokesman statement adding the car he was driving - a blue Seat Alhambra - was involved in a minor collision with the ambulance, which collided with a tree. My assumption would therefore be that the ambulance was side swiped or had to swerve to avoid car - hence undue care & attention arrest which they have to do if they charge in the future. Anyway enough speculation 2 people have lost their lives and 2 are seriously injured. Thoughts with all concerned. SRH74
  • Score: 0

5:48pm Fri 26 Apr 13

soton34 says...

The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
Whilst this is a forum for comment you really need to consider what comments are appropriate after such a tragedy. In case you are in any doubt your comments, which have no relation to this article, are inappropriate and will only provoke disgust and upset amongst readers. You may wish to consider removing your post. Thoughts are with all involved.
[quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]Whilst this is a forum for comment you really need to consider what comments are appropriate after such a tragedy. In case you are in any doubt your comments, which have no relation to this article, are inappropriate and will only provoke disgust and upset amongst readers. You may wish to consider removing your post. Thoughts are with all involved. soton34
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Fri 26 Apr 13

cantthinkofone says...

george h wrote:
Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel".

There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life.

My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up.

Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle.

I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away.

Again, you couldn't make it up.
Firstly:
.
dreadful accident to happen. My thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues of those involved. I also hope the survivors make a full recovery.
.
******************
.
In reply to the post quoted:
.
Yep. Privatisation by stealth, with profit being put before people. The creeping increase in the use of private ambulance companies for even the most serious and life threatening calls is a serious problem. Plenty of whistleblowers have testified that they're operating without properly trained staff of appropriate equipment. There were several national news stories on the subject earlier this week.
.
You can expect this type of problem to grow to catastrophic levels in the next year or two. As of this month, EVERY NHS service will have to be put out for competitive tender to the private sector. The cheapest will inevitably win, and patient safety will suffer in the search for profit.
.
"The NHS is safe in our hands" said Dave. Dave lied.
[quote][p][bold]george h[/bold] wrote: Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel". There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life. My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up. Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle. I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away. Again, you couldn't make it up.[/p][/quote]Firstly: . dreadful accident to happen. My thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues of those involved. I also hope the survivors make a full recovery. . ****************** . In reply to the post quoted: . Yep. Privatisation by stealth, with profit being put before people. The creeping increase in the use of private ambulance companies for even the most serious and life threatening calls is a serious problem. Plenty of whistleblowers have testified that they're operating without properly trained staff of appropriate equipment. There were several national news stories on the subject earlier this week. . You can expect this type of problem to grow to catastrophic levels in the next year or two. As of this month, EVERY NHS service will have to be put out for competitive tender to the private sector. The cheapest will inevitably win, and patient safety will suffer in the search for profit. . "The NHS is safe in our hands" said Dave. Dave lied. cantthinkofone
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Fri 26 Apr 13

vixvixter2000 says...

george h wrote:
Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel".

There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life.

My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up.

Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle.

I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away.

Again, you couldn't make it up.
Is this really the appropriate place for you to moan about your broken arm and your lacerated leg. You seem to be trying to turn comments on a tragic accident in which 2 people have lost there lives and 2 have critical injuries in to a "woe is me" tale. Regardless of whether this paramedic is "angelic" she has lost her life as has her patient and as a mark of respect to all the families and colleagues involved prehaps think twice before pressing the submit button.
[quote][p][bold]george h[/bold] wrote: Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel". There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life. My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up. Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle. I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away. Again, you couldn't make it up.[/p][/quote]Is this really the appropriate place for you to moan about your broken arm and your lacerated leg. You seem to be trying to turn comments on a tragic accident in which 2 people have lost there lives and 2 have critical injuries in to a "woe is me" tale. Regardless of whether this paramedic is "angelic" she has lost her life as has her patient and as a mark of respect to all the families and colleagues involved prehaps think twice before pressing the submit button. vixvixter2000
  • Score: 0

5:51pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

george h wrote:
Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel".

There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life.

My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up.

Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle.

I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away.

Again, you couldn't make it up.
This is the new cost cutting more efficient way of doing things. Private sector everything. The old way was far better of course. I too am an OAP.

Reading ambulance drivers wouldn't have a barrier key for an out of area call. How were they supposed to know there was a barrier at all? No wonder they took so long.

Did you not tell them you had an open wound on your leg?

Sounds like a hairline fracture to the arm, and no one can diagnose that without an xray, not even a doctor. They can be hard to spot even with xrays. I have had one of those and there is little you can do except maybe wear a sling and take care of it till it gets better.

Overnight stays in hospital are usually for observation.

Sounds like you were a borderline case as to whether to take you to A&E. I think they made the wrong call, because of your age. You needed reassurance at the very least and that open wound dressing.

However I personally would have chosen not to go to A&E and sorted myself out. I wouldn't have wanted the ambulance at all if I could walk home.

I do hope you are fully recovered now.
[quote][p][bold]george h[/bold] wrote: Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel". There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life. My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up. Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle. I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away. Again, you couldn't make it up.[/p][/quote]This is the new cost cutting more efficient way of doing things. Private sector everything. The old way was far better of course. I too am an OAP. Reading ambulance drivers wouldn't have a barrier key for an out of area call. How were they supposed to know there was a barrier at all? No wonder they took so long. Did you not tell them you had an open wound on your leg? Sounds like a hairline fracture to the arm, and no one can diagnose that without an xray, not even a doctor. They can be hard to spot even with xrays. I have had one of those and there is little you can do except maybe wear a sling and take care of it till it gets better. Overnight stays in hospital are usually for observation. Sounds like you were a borderline case as to whether to take you to A&E. I think they made the wrong call, because of your age. You needed reassurance at the very least and that open wound dressing. However I personally would have chosen not to go to A&E and sorted myself out. I wouldn't have wanted the ambulance at all if I could walk home. I do hope you are fully recovered now. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

5:55pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Donald2000 says...

vixvixter2000 wrote:
george h wrote:
Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel".

There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life.

My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up.

Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle.

I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away.

Again, you couldn't make it up.
Is this really the appropriate place for you to moan about your broken arm and your lacerated leg. You seem to be trying to turn comments on a tragic accident in which 2 people have lost there lives and 2 have critical injuries in to a "woe is me" tale. Regardless of whether this paramedic is "angelic" she has lost her life as has her patient and as a mark of respect to all the families and colleagues involved prehaps think twice before pressing the submit button.
You should have invited them not to press the submit button at all. Then we would have had some peace from stupid and irrelevant comments.
[quote][p][bold]vixvixter2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]george h[/bold] wrote: Being employed as a paramedic doesn't qualify one for the status of "angel". There are good ones, mediocre ones, and possibly bad ones, as in every other walk of life. My recent experience as a OAP cyclist wasn't a happy one. Ambulance crew arrived 45 mins after first call because "they couldn't find a key to unlock the road barriers to access Southampton Common". You really couldn't make it up. Then the male "angels" missed my broken arm and a serious leg wound that later required hospital admission overnight. Instead they suggested I didn't need to be taken to A&E and should walk home pushing my cycle. I was informed later that they were a "private" crew contracted to the ambulance service based in Reading. 40 miles away. Again, you couldn't make it up.[/p][/quote]Is this really the appropriate place for you to moan about your broken arm and your lacerated leg. You seem to be trying to turn comments on a tragic accident in which 2 people have lost there lives and 2 have critical injuries in to a "woe is me" tale. Regardless of whether this paramedic is "angelic" she has lost her life as has her patient and as a mark of respect to all the families and colleagues involved prehaps think twice before pressing the submit button.[/p][/quote]You should have invited them not to press the submit button at all. Then we would have had some peace from stupid and irrelevant comments. Donald2000
  • Score: 0

5:55pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sameoldscene says...

Norahbatty wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
sameoldscene wrote:
I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.
If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving.
I dont think this was a reference to the ambulance driver
Thankyou Norahbatty for pointing that one out. Its exactly what i meant. I think Donald2000 must be a bit special not to notice this. Sad,sad situation. I just hope its not from a ridiculous update on Facebook or some other social network site. Etc,etc!
[quote][p][bold]Norahbatty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sameoldscene[/bold] wrote: I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.[/p][/quote]If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving.[/p][/quote]I dont think this was a reference to the ambulance driver[/p][/quote]Thankyou Norahbatty for pointing that one out. Its exactly what i meant. I think Donald2000 must be a bit special not to notice this. Sad,sad situation. I just hope its not from a ridiculous update on Facebook or some other social network site. Etc,etc! sameoldscene
  • Score: 0

6:20pm Fri 26 Apr 13

silver palm says...

I was going to comment on the utterly moronic post by 'george h' above but it seems others have adequately beat me to it.
For the record george, private crews have to be used because there are simply not enough NHS crews to cope with the massive increase in 999 calls ( and evidently 111 now). I don't want to hijack this forum with political rhetoric but if you want a service to respond within the government imposed response times,you need resources and the private crews help with that. The fact that they didnt have a key is not a point to judge the ambulance service on. The tone of your argument is one of ridicule born out of ignorance no doubt.

Incidentally, I work for the ambulance service and I knew the lady who was killed today. Whilst opinions and speculations are red hot about the cause at the moment, I find it in very bad taste and wholly inappropriate to read on this and other media forums, people's sudden quickness in criticising ambulance clinicians driving skills. You are the very people who would complain if the ambulance did not there quick enough as they were driving to the speed limits
I was going to comment on the utterly moronic post by 'george h' above but it seems others have adequately beat me to it. For the record george, private crews have to be used because there are simply not enough NHS crews to cope with the massive increase in 999 calls ( and evidently 111 now). I don't want to hijack this forum with political rhetoric but if you want a service to respond within the government imposed response times,you need resources and the private crews help with that. The fact that they didnt have a key is not a point to judge the ambulance service on. The tone of your argument is one of ridicule born out of ignorance no doubt. Incidentally, I work for the ambulance service and I knew the lady who was killed today. Whilst opinions and speculations are red hot about the cause at the moment, I find it in very bad taste and wholly inappropriate to read on this and other media forums, people's sudden quickness in criticising ambulance clinicians driving skills. You are the very people who would complain if the ambulance did not there quick enough as they were driving to the speed limits silver palm
  • Score: 0

6:21pm Fri 26 Apr 13

hantsreader says...

I'm a bit confused by the article.

It says the ambulance was travelling south. Then it says it was going to Southampton General, which isn't to the south of New Park.
I'm a bit confused by the article. It says the ambulance was travelling south. Then it says it was going to Southampton General, which isn't to the south of New Park. hantsreader
  • Score: 0

6:42pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Vycinas says...

It is sad, when someone dies because of some morons who shouldn't be driving on roads. I believe it is time for police to do their job, start patroling on roads, check for reckless drivers, those who dont show indicators, those who jump on breaks for no reason, or those idiots who slow down the traffic on purpose just because they dont wanna be overtaken by someone. Most importantly, check driving instructors if they re qualified enough to do their job. I could go on and on, but i think that covers it
It is sad, when someone dies because of some morons who shouldn't be driving on roads. I believe it is time for police to do their job, start patroling on roads, check for reckless drivers, those who dont show indicators, those who jump on breaks for no reason, or those idiots who slow down the traffic on purpose just because they dont wanna be overtaken by someone. Most importantly, check driving instructors if they re qualified enough to do their job. I could go on and on, but i think that covers it Vycinas
  • Score: 0

7:31pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sarahj94 says...

I drive the a31 and the a35 everyday and i have idiots overtaking me going over the speed limit to sit one car ahead of me at the next junction or traffic lights, i have also noticed how many people have their music so loud that they dont notice emergency vehicles and when you pull over they go past you not knowing why you have pulled over. R.i.p to the two people who have lost their lives
I drive the a31 and the a35 everyday and i have idiots overtaking me going over the speed limit to sit one car ahead of me at the next junction or traffic lights, i have also noticed how many people have their music so loud that they dont notice emergency vehicles and when you pull over they go past you not knowing why you have pulled over. R.i.p to the two people who have lost their lives sarahj94
  • Score: 0

7:38pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle'

At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call.

Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states:

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.


http://www.roaddrive
r.co.uk/content/safe
ty_tip/79/

The post I replied is crass to say the least.

I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police.

Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.[/p][/quote]'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle' At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call. Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states: No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ The post I replied is crass to say the least. I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police. Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

7:41pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Donald2000 says...

sameoldscene wrote:
Norahbatty wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
sameoldscene wrote:
I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.
If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving.
I dont think this was a reference to the ambulance driver
Thankyou Norahbatty for pointing that one out. Its exactly what i meant. I think Donald2000 must be a bit special not to notice this. Sad,sad situation. I just hope its not from a ridiculous update on Facebook or some other social network site. Etc,etc!
I think Donald2000 might be a bit special not to notice this.

I think you ought to shut your rudeness up; you don't know anything about me. I don't need your input into my postings as I am perfectly well aware that ambulance emergency drivers do not talk or text as they are driving. What I wanted to make sure was that the correspondent knew it as well., Take your smart a***e comments elsewhere you pathetic person.
[quote][p][bold]sameoldscene[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Norahbatty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sameoldscene[/bold] wrote: I really hope this isnt a case of someone texting/talking on a hand held device. R.I.P to these poor people who have lost their life.[/p][/quote]If it is, it will not be on the part of the Ambulance Service; they don't chat away on mobiles or text while they are driving.[/p][/quote]I dont think this was a reference to the ambulance driver[/p][/quote]Thankyou Norahbatty for pointing that one out. Its exactly what i meant. I think Donald2000 must be a bit special not to notice this. Sad,sad situation. I just hope its not from a ridiculous update on Facebook or some other social network site. Etc,etc![/p][/quote]I think Donald2000 might be a bit special not to notice this. I think you ought to shut your rudeness up; you don't know anything about me. I don't need your input into my postings as I am perfectly well aware that ambulance emergency drivers do not talk or text as they are driving. What I wanted to make sure was that the correspondent knew it as well., Take your smart a***e comments elsewhere you pathetic person. Donald2000
  • Score: 0

7:45pm Fri 26 Apr 13

The Phantomerer says...

soton34 wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
Whilst this is a forum for comment you really need to consider what comments are appropriate after such a tragedy. In case you are in any doubt your comments, which have no relation to this article, are inappropriate and will only provoke disgust and upset amongst readers. You may wish to consider removing your post. Thoughts are with all involved.
I considered my comment to be entirely appropriate or I would not have made it. I do not think it is your place to decide whether or not my comments will provoke disgust and upset in others. If they provoke disgust and upset for you, that is your problem. I consider your comment and your manner of acting as some kind of self appointed disgust/upset barometer to be highly offensive.
[quote][p][bold]soton34[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]Whilst this is a forum for comment you really need to consider what comments are appropriate after such a tragedy. In case you are in any doubt your comments, which have no relation to this article, are inappropriate and will only provoke disgust and upset amongst readers. You may wish to consider removing your post. Thoughts are with all involved.[/p][/quote]I considered my comment to be entirely appropriate or I would not have made it. I do not think it is your place to decide whether or not my comments will provoke disgust and upset in others. If they provoke disgust and upset for you, that is your problem. I consider your comment and your manner of acting as some kind of self appointed disgust/upset barometer to be highly offensive. The Phantomerer
  • Score: 0

7:52pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sameoldscene says...

No need for personal insults Donald2000. Apologies if you took it the wrong way. Clearly im putting in a point as well as you. Lets not forget that 2 people are dead here and we shouldnt be upsetting family/friends with difference of opinion. Again, R.I.P who,s life has been tragically taken away.
No need for personal insults Donald2000. Apologies if you took it the wrong way. Clearly im putting in a point as well as you. Lets not forget that 2 people are dead here and we shouldnt be upsetting family/friends with difference of opinion. Again, R.I.P who,s life has been tragically taken away. sameoldscene
  • Score: 0

8:16pm Fri 26 Apr 13

huckit P says...

Frank28 wrote:
How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.
Ambulances are CEN approved and type certified. They complete crash testing similar to other vehicles although the cab is a standard production model - IVECO, Mercedes, Ford etc. - and even the stretcher floor restraints and stretcher straps are tested. The majority of purpose built ambulances have integral roll cages. Many of the "saloons" (the rear box) are manufactured in Canada and shipped to ambulance manufacturers in the UK. Check Wilker Auto Conversion for more information. (I do not know if the ambulance involved is a Wilker ambulance.)
[quote][p][bold]Frank28[/bold] wrote: How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.[/p][/quote]Ambulances are CEN approved and type certified. They complete crash testing similar to other vehicles although the cab is a standard production model - IVECO, Mercedes, Ford etc. - and even the stretcher floor restraints and stretcher straps are tested. The majority of purpose built ambulances have integral roll cages. Many of the "saloons" (the rear box) are manufactured in Canada and shipped to ambulance manufacturers in the UK. Check Wilker Auto Conversion for more information. (I do not know if the ambulance involved is a Wilker ambulance.) huckit P
  • Score: 0

8:17pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Writers Cramp says...

allison.luella wrote:
Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!!
They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!!
Im sorry. Just pause. If the man's tyre burst, then its an accident - just as an example. They have arrested a man - "Lets hope they find him guilty" - are you now the judge and jury before you have heard or seen the evidence ? Please think about other things - The Drivers family, the deceased, the deceased's families and close friends. Not time for slinging accusations. Praying for all who are left in trauma and injured.
[quote][p][bold]allison.luella[/bold] wrote: Sorry but i wish people would stop blaming the wildlife for these accidents!! They have arrested someone for this accident. Lets hope they are found guilty and feels guilt for the rest of their lives for killing two peopleand for putting two other peoples lives at risk!![/p][/quote]Im sorry. Just pause. If the man's tyre burst, then its an accident - just as an example. They have arrested a man - "Lets hope they find him guilty" - are you now the judge and jury before you have heard or seen the evidence ? Please think about other things - The Drivers family, the deceased, the deceased's families and close friends. Not time for slinging accusations. Praying for all who are left in trauma and injured. Writers Cramp
  • Score: 0

8:37pm Fri 26 Apr 13

eddie catflap says...

Please don't assume what happened today.
Tragically it was my Auntie who was killed today , she was an experienced driver with many years service and lived in the New forest area , not Reading ?.
I have spoken to my Uncle and thier son today (my cousin) and we are all devastated. R.I.P Auntie G
Tony.
Please don't assume what happened today. Tragically it was my Auntie who was killed today , she was an experienced driver with many years service and lived in the New forest area , not Reading ?. I have spoken to my Uncle and thier son today (my cousin) and we are all devastated. R.I.P Auntie G Tony. eddie catflap
  • Score: 0

8:53pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Mousetrap says...

Although I don't live in the area I know this road very well. Yes, some people do drive too fast, but they do everywhere sadly. Locals often get used to their roads and think everything will be OK.

So sorry for the casualties - very sad for the families. I hope the injured get well soon.
Although I don't live in the area I know this road very well. Yes, some people do drive too fast, but they do everywhere sadly. Locals often get used to their roads and think everything will be OK. So sorry for the casualties - very sad for the families. I hope the injured get well soon. Mousetrap
  • Score: 0

9:09pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Sir Ad E Noid says...

SRH74 wrote:
Looking at the picture, both vehicles travelling in the same direction. Add the police spokesman statement adding the car he was driving - a blue Seat Alhambra - was involved in a minor collision with the ambulance, which collided with a tree. My assumption would therefore be that the ambulance was side swiped or had to swerve to avoid car - hence undue care & attention arrest which they have to do if they charge in the future.

Anyway enough speculation 2 people have lost their lives and 2 are seriously injured. Thoughts with all concerned.
What utter garbage. You need to think long and hard what you write. From a distant, grainy picture you have worked out what went wrong. You need to be in the Police. You need help.
[quote][p][bold]SRH74[/bold] wrote: Looking at the picture, both vehicles travelling in the same direction. Add the police spokesman statement adding the car he was driving - a blue Seat Alhambra - was involved in a minor collision with the ambulance, which collided with a tree. My assumption would therefore be that the ambulance was side swiped or had to swerve to avoid car - hence undue care & attention arrest which they have to do if they charge in the future. Anyway enough speculation 2 people have lost their lives and 2 are seriously injured. Thoughts with all concerned.[/p][/quote]What utter garbage. You need to think long and hard what you write. From a distant, grainy picture you have worked out what went wrong. You need to be in the Police. You need help. Sir Ad E Noid
  • Score: 0

9:24pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

eddie catflap wrote:
Please don't assume what happened today.
Tragically it was my Auntie who was killed today , she was an experienced driver with many years service and lived in the New forest area , not Reading ?.
I have spoken to my Uncle and thier son today (my cousin) and we are all devastated. R.I.P Auntie G
Tony.
I am truly so very sorry Eddie. I don't know why they allow comments on this forum after such sad events.

I found some comments on here to be rather ignorant when they should have been tributes to a lovely lady.

My daughter is also a paramedic, so it's a bit close to home as they say. Hence I have been defending paramedics and hope that none of my posts have upset you or your family. Please accept my sincere apologies if they have.

I don't know the road in question or what happened. I somehow doubt your Auntie G was at fault.
[quote][p][bold]eddie catflap[/bold] wrote: Please don't assume what happened today. Tragically it was my Auntie who was killed today , she was an experienced driver with many years service and lived in the New forest area , not Reading ?. I have spoken to my Uncle and thier son today (my cousin) and we are all devastated. R.I.P Auntie G Tony.[/p][/quote]I am truly so very sorry Eddie. I don't know why they allow comments on this forum after such sad events. I found some comments on here to be rather ignorant when they should have been tributes to a lovely lady. My daughter is also a paramedic, so it's a bit close to home as they say. Hence I have been defending paramedics and hope that none of my posts have upset you or your family. Please accept my sincere apologies if they have. I don't know the road in question or what happened. I somehow doubt your Auntie G was at fault. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

10:31pm Fri 26 Apr 13

bucktoom says...

Regardless of who did what and all that nonsense- 2 people have died in tragic circumstances.
Have some compassion.
RIP
Regardless of who did what and all that nonsense- 2 people have died in tragic circumstances. Have some compassion. RIP bucktoom
  • Score: 0

10:37pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sotonSO15 says...

Too much speculation, just remember 2 people lost theirs lives today, I don't work for the NHS but I do work on the SGH site, and saw an ambulance leaving the hospital this afternoon, blue lightst flashing and still cars drive in front of them, you need to let them pass it could be a relative of yours they are attending
Too much speculation, just remember 2 people lost theirs lives today, I don't work for the NHS but I do work on the SGH site, and saw an ambulance leaving the hospital this afternoon, blue lightst flashing and still cars drive in front of them, you need to let them pass it could be a relative of yours they are attending sotonSO15
  • Score: 0

10:46pm Fri 26 Apr 13

owiseone says...

Frank28 wrote:
How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.
you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident
[quote][p][bold]Frank28[/bold] wrote: How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.[/p][/quote]you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident owiseone
  • Score: 0

10:52pm Fri 26 Apr 13

owiseone says...

hantsreader wrote:
I'm a bit confused by the article.

It says the ambulance was travelling south. Then it says it was going to Southampton General, which isn't to the south of New Park.
and your point is ? maybe you should just go back to bed .have a rest . you are confused. poor thing !!!
[quote][p][bold]hantsreader[/bold] wrote: I'm a bit confused by the article. It says the ambulance was travelling south. Then it says it was going to Southampton General, which isn't to the south of New Park.[/p][/quote]and your point is ? maybe you should just go back to bed .have a rest . you are confused. poor thing !!! owiseone
  • Score: 0

10:52pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sotonSO15 says...

owiseone wrote:
Frank28 wrote: How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.
you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident
Totally agree, this is the time for respect for the paramedic and patient who unfortunately lost their lives
[quote][p][bold]owiseone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frank28[/bold] wrote: How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.[/p][/quote]you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident[/p][/quote]Totally agree, this is the time for respect for the paramedic and patient who unfortunately lost their lives sotonSO15
  • Score: 0

10:54pm Fri 26 Apr 13

sparkster says...

How can anyone possibly say ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots they have a duty to get someone to hospital as fast as they can, it can be a difference between life and death and would you want to get to hospital as quickly as possible? Stop talking out of your arse and show some respect for the emergency services who in my view do a fantastic job.
How can anyone possibly say ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots they have a duty to get someone to hospital as fast as they can, it can be a difference between life and death and would you want to get to hospital as quickly as possible? Stop talking out of your arse and show some respect for the emergency services who in my view do a fantastic job. sparkster
  • Score: 0

11:26pm Fri 26 Apr 13

ssnaked23 says...

Sad to hear when anyone dies as a result of an accident, regardless whose fault it is. A pity that there are those posters on here who dont seem to show the proper respect and then use this as their soap box to spout off and moan about unrelated issues. Have a thought people for those families who have lost their loved ones. May they rest in peace nad their faimilies eventually find some solace in the future.
Sad to hear when anyone dies as a result of an accident, regardless whose fault it is. A pity that there are those posters on here who dont seem to show the proper respect and then use this as their soap box to spout off and moan about unrelated issues. Have a thought people for those families who have lost their loved ones. May they rest in peace nad their faimilies eventually find some solace in the future. ssnaked23
  • Score: 0

11:34pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Rachie says...

Dresnez wrote:
eddie catflap wrote:
Please don't assume what happened today.
Tragically it was my Auntie who was killed today , she was an experienced driver with many years service and lived in the New forest area , not Reading ?.
I have spoken to my Uncle and thier son today (my cousin) and we are all devastated. R.I.P Auntie G
Tony.
I am truly so very sorry Eddie. I don't know why they allow comments on this forum after such sad events.

I found some comments on here to be rather ignorant when they should have been tributes to a lovely lady.

My daughter is also a paramedic, so it's a bit close to home as they say. Hence I have been defending paramedics and hope that none of my posts have upset you or your family. Please accept my sincere apologies if they have.

I don't know the road in question or what happened. I somehow doubt your Auntie G was at fault.
I'm quite upset by some of the posts today. My sincere condolences to your family Eddie.

My son is a firefighter on one of the crews that attended and he was devastated to lose 'one of their own'.

For those that blame the emergency services, just be grateful for the risks they take every day.
[quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eddie catflap[/bold] wrote: Please don't assume what happened today. Tragically it was my Auntie who was killed today , she was an experienced driver with many years service and lived in the New forest area , not Reading ?. I have spoken to my Uncle and thier son today (my cousin) and we are all devastated. R.I.P Auntie G Tony.[/p][/quote]I am truly so very sorry Eddie. I don't know why they allow comments on this forum after such sad events. I found some comments on here to be rather ignorant when they should have been tributes to a lovely lady. My daughter is also a paramedic, so it's a bit close to home as they say. Hence I have been defending paramedics and hope that none of my posts have upset you or your family. Please accept my sincere apologies if they have. I don't know the road in question or what happened. I somehow doubt your Auntie G was at fault.[/p][/quote]I'm quite upset by some of the posts today. My sincere condolences to your family Eddie. My son is a firefighter on one of the crews that attended and he was devastated to lose 'one of their own'. For those that blame the emergency services, just be grateful for the risks they take every day. Rachie
  • Score: 0

11:39pm Fri 26 Apr 13

cantthinkofone says...

owiseone wrote:
Frank28 wrote:
How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.
you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident
That's not how Frank28's comment reads to me. I don't think he's blaming the ambulance driver. He seems to be suggesting that ambulances should be better safety tested so that they protect the crew (and patients) better should they be involved in a crash.
.
I hope you and your colleagues are provided with plenty of support by SCAS. It's a tough, underpaid job, but so so valuable.
[quote][p][bold]owiseone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frank28[/bold] wrote: How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.[/p][/quote]you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident[/p][/quote]That's not how Frank28's comment reads to me. I don't think he's blaming the ambulance driver. He seems to be suggesting that ambulances should be better safety tested so that they protect the crew (and patients) better should they be involved in a crash. . I hope you and your colleagues are provided with plenty of support by SCAS. It's a tough, underpaid job, but so so valuable. cantthinkofone
  • Score: 0

11:54pm Fri 26 Apr 13

Mrcaba says...

As a long serving paramedic with Scas and friends with those involved, I am severely upset by some of the comments on this message board. What is it with people that they need to be judge jury and executioner with very little information on what happened in a situation or to use a time like this to place personal comments like they have on here?

We are all devastated by what has happened and finding it hard to come to terms with what has happened.
My deepest thoughts are with the family and friends of all involved. I hope you are able to take a measure of peace soon.
To my friend at SGH. Stay strong my friend. We are all thinking of you.
As a long serving paramedic with Scas and friends with those involved, I am severely upset by some of the comments on this message board. What is it with people that they need to be judge jury and executioner with very little information on what happened in a situation or to use a time like this to place personal comments like they have on here? We are all devastated by what has happened and finding it hard to come to terms with what has happened. My deepest thoughts are with the family and friends of all involved. I hope you are able to take a measure of peace soon. To my friend at SGH. Stay strong my friend. We are all thinking of you. Mrcaba
  • Score: 0

12:26am Sat 27 Apr 13

Sir Ad E Noid says...

owiseone wrote:
Frank28 wrote:
How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.
you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident
No, he wasn't saying that. What he was saying was that in a collision, how safe are the occupants and will they survive the test impact. The post meant no upset.
[quote][p][bold]owiseone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frank28[/bold] wrote: How safe are Ambulances when involved in a crash? N-CAP don't test them. Perhaps they should.[/p][/quote]you seem to suggest it was the ambulance fault .. what a stupid remark . please show more respect for my dead colleague and the patient. it was a very tragic accident[/p][/quote]No, he wasn't saying that. What he was saying was that in a collision, how safe are the occupants and will they survive the test impact. The post meant no upset. Sir Ad E Noid
  • Score: 0

12:38am Sat 27 Apr 13

Block 42 says...

I would like to know the percentage of accidents that are avoidable.?.for instance when an aircraft crashes it is normally mechananical failure but vehicle crashes are usually driver error.and that is a real sad story.try to never let your guard down on the road.
I would like to know the percentage of accidents that are avoidable.?.for instance when an aircraft crashes it is normally mechananical failure but vehicle crashes are usually driver error.and that is a real sad story.try to never let your guard down on the road. Block 42
  • Score: 0

7:08am Sat 27 Apr 13

Chunky62 says...

So sad people forget what a great job these people do
So sad people forget what a great job these people do Chunky62
  • Score: 0

9:19am Sat 27 Apr 13

khmer saint says...

Dresnez wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle'

At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call.

Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states:

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.


http://www.roaddrive

r.co.uk/content/safe

ty_tip/79/

The post I replied is crass to say the least.

I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police.

Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.
Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount

My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident.

Once again condolences to the families.
[quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.[/p][/quote]'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle' At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call. Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states: No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ The post I replied is crass to say the least. I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police. Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.[/p][/quote]Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident. Once again condolences to the families. khmer saint
  • Score: 0

9:44am Sat 27 Apr 13

khmer saint says...

khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle'

At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call.

Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states:

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.


http://www.roaddrive


r.co.uk/content/safe


ty_tip/79/

The post I replied is crass to say the least.

I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police.

Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.
Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount

My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident.

Once again condolences to the families.
My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident

Once again condolences to the families


I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.[/p][/quote]'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle' At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call. Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states: No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ The post I replied is crass to say the least. I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police. Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.[/p][/quote]Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident. Once again condolences to the families.[/p][/quote]My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident Once again condolences to the families I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy khmer saint
  • Score: 0

9:58am Sat 27 Apr 13

khmer saint says...

khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle'

At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call.

Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states:

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.


http://www.roaddrive



r.co.uk/content/safe



ty_tip/79/

The post I replied is crass to say the least.

I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police.

Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.
Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount

My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident.

Once again condolences to the families.
My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident

Once again condolences to the families


I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy
DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire
.gov.uk/theservice/s
erviceorders.htm?id=
52973

Service Orders
Printing Service Orders

Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing.

SO/8/11/2/38
(MP 01/10)

Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles
1 Road traffic law

Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights

(a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to:

(b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.

Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.

Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training.

3 Training of response drivers

All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document.

4 Other road users response vehicles

Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way.
During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress.
The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed.
5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights

The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above.

Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way.

Owner:Malcolm Pinchin
Author:Malcolm Pinchin
Contact:Malcolm Pinchin
Review:1/2011
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.[/p][/quote]'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle' At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call. Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states: No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ The post I replied is crass to say the least. I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police. Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.[/p][/quote]Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident. Once again condolences to the families.[/p][/quote]My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident Once again condolences to the families I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy[/p][/quote]DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire .gov.uk/theservice/s erviceorders.htm?id= 52973 Service Orders Printing Service Orders Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing. SO/8/11/2/38 (MP 01/10) Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles 1 Road traffic law Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights (a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to: (b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident. Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training. 3 Training of response drivers All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document. 4 Other road users response vehicles Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way. During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress. The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed. 5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above. Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way. Owner:Malcolm Pinchin Author:Malcolm Pinchin Contact:Malcolm Pinchin Review:1/2011 khmer saint
  • Score: 0

10:01am Sat 27 Apr 13

khmer saint says...

khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle'

At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call.

Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states:

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.


http://www.roaddrive




r.co.uk/content/safe




ty_tip/79/

The post I replied is crass to say the least.

I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police.

Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.
Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount

My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident.

Once again condolences to the families.
My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident

Once again condolences to the families


I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy
DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire

.gov.uk/theservice/s

erviceorders.htm?id=

52973

Service Orders
Printing Service Orders

Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing.

SO/8/11/2/38
(MP 01/10)

Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles
1 Road traffic law

Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights

(a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to:

(b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.

Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.

Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training.

3 Training of response drivers

All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document.

4 Other road users response vehicles

Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way.
During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress.
The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed.
5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights

The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above.

Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way.

Owner:Malcolm Pinchin
Author:Malcolm Pinchin
Contact:Malcolm Pinchin
Review:1/2011
Can you now voluntarily concede that you are WRONG!?
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.[/p][/quote]'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle' At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call. Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states: No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ The post I replied is crass to say the least. I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police. Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.[/p][/quote]Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident. Once again condolences to the families.[/p][/quote]My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident Once again condolences to the families I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy[/p][/quote]DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire .gov.uk/theservice/s erviceorders.htm?id= 52973 Service Orders Printing Service Orders Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing. SO/8/11/2/38 (MP 01/10) Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles 1 Road traffic law Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights (a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to: (b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident. Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training. 3 Training of response drivers All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document. 4 Other road users response vehicles Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way. During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress. The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed. 5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above. Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way. Owner:Malcolm Pinchin Author:Malcolm Pinchin Contact:Malcolm Pinchin Review:1/2011[/p][/quote]Can you now voluntarily concede that you are WRONG!? khmer saint
  • Score: 0

1:25pm Sat 27 Apr 13

Stop_it! says...

Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you.
Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you. Stop_it!
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Sat 27 Apr 13

TimTam says...

What happened yesterday is sad beyond words, although reading some of the above posts too many words have been upsettingly used.

My sincere and heart felt thoughts go out to all those involved.
What happened yesterday is sad beyond words, although reading some of the above posts too many words have been upsettingly used. My sincere and heart felt thoughts go out to all those involved. TimTam
  • Score: 0

5:09pm Sat 27 Apr 13

khmer saint says...

Stop_it! wrote:
Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you.
Its a forum for discussion arising from the news that will incite opinion and debate. Thats what its set up to do. May I suggest you stick to the obituaries section if you are easily offended and not open to opinion right or wrong. There you will find what I think you are looking for.

My condolences to the families
[quote][p][bold]Stop_it![/bold] wrote: Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you.[/p][/quote]Its a forum for discussion arising from the news that will incite opinion and debate. Thats what its set up to do. May I suggest you stick to the obituaries section if you are easily offended and not open to opinion right or wrong. There you will find what I think you are looking for. My condolences to the families khmer saint
  • Score: 0

5:27pm Sat 27 Apr 13

cantthinkofone says...

khmer saint wrote:
Stop_it! wrote:
Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you.
Its a forum for discussion arising from the news that will incite opinion and debate. Thats what its set up to do. May I suggest you stick to the obituaries section if you are easily offended and not open to opinion right or wrong. There you will find what I think you are looking for.

My condolences to the families
C'mon now - Stop_it has a point. Not just on this story, but on many others a great number of the Echo's commenters show all the humanity and sensitivity of Ghengis Khan with a hangover. Not to mention the intelligence of a lame mackerel. It's the same with local newspaper website the country over - hence the "spEak You're bRanes" website which collates the best examples.
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stop_it![/bold] wrote: Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you.[/p][/quote]Its a forum for discussion arising from the news that will incite opinion and debate. Thats what its set up to do. May I suggest you stick to the obituaries section if you are easily offended and not open to opinion right or wrong. There you will find what I think you are looking for. My condolences to the families[/p][/quote]C'mon now - Stop_it has a point. Not just on this story, but on many others a great number of the Echo's commenters show all the humanity and sensitivity of Ghengis Khan with a hangover. Not to mention the intelligence of a lame mackerel. It's the same with local newspaper website the country over - hence the "spEak You're bRanes" website which collates the best examples. cantthinkofone
  • Score: 0

6:04pm Sat 27 Apr 13

Stop_it! says...

khmer saint wrote:
Stop_it! wrote:
Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you.
Its a forum for discussion arising from the news that will incite opinion and debate. Thats what its set up to do. May I suggest you stick to the obituaries section if you are easily offended and not open to opinion right or wrong. There you will find what I think you are looking for.

My condolences to the families
A person who chose to work serving your community has died, as has a member of the public she was trying to help. No facts are known yet. For a debate to be of any value, the facts must be known. Amateur guesswork helps nobody. Let those of us touched by this come to terms with what has happened. I'm sure from the anonymity of your keyboard this seems like fun, but remember real people can see what you are saying.
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stop_it![/bold] wrote: Can I ask all of you trying to guess what happened to cause this horrific incident, or using it to advance a personally held agenda, to remember what started this discussion. An ambulance crew going about their duty were involved, whatever the circumstances, in a terrible collision. 2 people have died. 2 People have been injured. Please respect these simple facts. It is revolting to see 'it must have been because...' when nobody knows yet, or 'I once saw an ambulance do this...' suggesting some connection. Stop guessing. Stop arguing. Think of the families, friends and colleagues of the ambulance crew, and the patient, before adding anything more. Thank you.[/p][/quote]Its a forum for discussion arising from the news that will incite opinion and debate. Thats what its set up to do. May I suggest you stick to the obituaries section if you are easily offended and not open to opinion right or wrong. There you will find what I think you are looking for. My condolences to the families[/p][/quote]A person who chose to work serving your community has died, as has a member of the public she was trying to help. No facts are known yet. For a debate to be of any value, the facts must be known. Amateur guesswork helps nobody. Let those of us touched by this come to terms with what has happened. I'm sure from the anonymity of your keyboard this seems like fun, but remember real people can see what you are saying. Stop_it!
  • Score: 0

1:06pm Mon 29 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle'

At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call.

Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states:

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.


http://www.roaddrive




r.co.uk/content/safe




ty_tip/79/

The post I replied is crass to say the least.

I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police.

Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.
Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount

My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident.

Once again condolences to the families.
My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident

Once again condolences to the families


I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy
DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire

.gov.uk/theservice/s

erviceorders.htm?id=

52973

Service Orders
Printing Service Orders

Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing.

SO/8/11/2/38
(MP 01/10)

Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles
1 Road traffic law

Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights

(a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to:

(b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.

Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.

Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training.

3 Training of response drivers

All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document.

4 Other road users response vehicles

Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way.
During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress.
The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed.
5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights

The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above.

Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way.

Owner:Malcolm Pinchin
Author:Malcolm Pinchin
Contact:Malcolm Pinchin
Review:1/2011
Thanks Malcolm. As you say it is complicated.

Motorists or the general public cannot be expected to know of changes to the regs every 24 hrs.

We have to take it at face value when twos and blues are going that it is an emergency.

I was taught to give way to emergency vehicles as soon as it is SAFE to do. Pull over if you can, give way, give them priority, if you SAFELY can.

I have never seen this as voluntary, but as a duty and a legal requirement.

In fact I thought you could be fined for impeding the progress of emergency vehicles.

It cannot be arbitrary, a matter of choice whether to give way or not to an emergency vehicle when it is clearly safe to do so. I am sure it is an offence to hamper their progress.

Emergency vehicle drivers are in a different situation, because they have to assess if traffic is giving way or not, and if they can give way safely or not. Public can be unpredictable so care has to be taken. Wording for them on their instructions may say voluntary, but I think the public are legally required to give way if safe to do so.

A green light is not necessarily a right of way when I can see an emergency vehicle is clearly going to cut across those lights from the other direction.

Consistency has to be applied so we all know what to do. Make it complicated and it will cause confusion.

The public can be panicked and do the wrong thing. They don't have the training that emergency services drivers have.

Maybe there should be a TV campaign to remind motorist of their duties or advise them of any changes regarding what to do when confronted with sirens and blue lights.
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.[/p][/quote]'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle' At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call. Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states: No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ The post I replied is crass to say the least. I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police. Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.[/p][/quote]Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident. Once again condolences to the families.[/p][/quote]My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident Once again condolences to the families I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy[/p][/quote]DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire .gov.uk/theservice/s erviceorders.htm?id= 52973 Service Orders Printing Service Orders Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing. SO/8/11/2/38 (MP 01/10) Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles 1 Road traffic law Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights (a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to: (b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident. Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training. 3 Training of response drivers All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document. 4 Other road users response vehicles Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way. During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress. The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed. 5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above. Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way. Owner:Malcolm Pinchin Author:Malcolm Pinchin Contact:Malcolm Pinchin Review:1/2011[/p][/quote]Thanks Malcolm. As you say it is complicated. Motorists or the general public cannot be expected to know of changes to the regs every 24 hrs. We have to take it at face value when twos and blues are going that it is an emergency. I was taught to give way to emergency vehicles as soon as it is SAFE to do. Pull over if you can, give way, give them priority, if you SAFELY can. I have never seen this as voluntary, but as a duty and a legal requirement. In fact I thought you could be fined for impeding the progress of emergency vehicles. It cannot be arbitrary, a matter of choice whether to give way or not to an emergency vehicle when it is clearly safe to do so. I am sure it is an offence to hamper their progress. Emergency vehicle drivers are in a different situation, because they have to assess if traffic is giving way or not, and if they can give way safely or not. Public can be unpredictable so care has to be taken. Wording for them on their instructions may say voluntary, but I think the public are legally required to give way if safe to do so. A green light is not necessarily a right of way when I can see an emergency vehicle is clearly going to cut across those lights from the other direction. Consistency has to be applied so we all know what to do. Make it complicated and it will cause confusion. The public can be panicked and do the wrong thing. They don't have the training that emergency services drivers have. Maybe there should be a TV campaign to remind motorist of their duties or advise them of any changes regarding what to do when confronted with sirens and blue lights. Dresnez
  • Score: 0

2:49pm Mon 29 Apr 13

Dresnez says...

khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
khmer saint wrote:
Dresnez wrote:
The Phantomerer wrote:
I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.
From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots'

Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic.

Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable.

All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code.

I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic.

Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting.

I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues.

A very very sad loss.
Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.
'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle'

At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call.

Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states:

No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.


http://www.roaddrive





r.co.uk/content/safe





ty_tip/79/

The post I replied is crass to say the least.

I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police.

Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.
Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount

My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident.

Once again condolences to the families.
My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident

Once again condolences to the families


I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy
DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire


.gov.uk/theservice/s


erviceorders.htm?id=


52973

Service Orders
Printing Service Orders

Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing.

SO/8/11/2/38
(MP 01/10)

Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles
1 Road traffic law

Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994

2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights

(a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to:

(b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.

Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.

Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training.

3 Training of response drivers

All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document.

4 Other road users response vehicles

Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way.
During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress.
The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed.
5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights

The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above.

Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way.

Owner:Malcolm Pinchin
Author:Malcolm Pinchin
Contact:Malcolm Pinchin
Review:1/2011
Can you now voluntarily concede that you are WRONG!?
I have no idea of the circumstances or details of your accident. It is not my place to judge. I am really pleased you and your little girl were not hurt in your accident.

I have heard of a lot of police car accidents on emergency calls but not Fire or Ambulance till this week. A fire tender and an ambulance. Still rare considering the amount of calls they do over the country.

Ambulance personnel are also subject to 'response times' which they will fail if not done in the time allocated. This might account for some more risk taking with some drivers. But IF there have been increases in the numbers of accidents this MAY be a factor.

NO actually I do not concede anything. Sorry. Voluntary - if I feel like it, optional.

I do not believe that it is voluntary whether you give way to emergency vehicles or not when it is SAFE to do so. It is compulsory.

I believe it is an offence to impede the progress of an emergency vehicle.

My information from 2010, so not that long ago, copied and pasted below. We cannot have conflicting rules and information. This will just cause confusion

Emergency Vehicles and Driving situations

On a Motorway:

The emergency services will use the hard shoulder if all lanes are blocked, so don't drive onto, or block the hard shoulder. Pull over to the inside lane if possible and wait for the emergency vehicle to pass. Watch out for more than one emergency vehicle. The emergency vehicle may be en-route to a road traffic accident, so prepare yourself in case you are approaching the incident. Check to make sure the way is clear and signal before merging back into the fast-flowing traffic lane.

Accident Scene:

When passing the scene of an accident do not be distracted or slow down unnecessarily (for example if an accident is on the other side of a dual carriageway). This is called rubbernecking and could cause another accident if you slow down or take your eyes of the road to have a look.

One-Way Street:

If you are travelling along a one-way street or a two-way road where the outside lane is congested? In this situation, it would be proper to continue at a reasonable speed letting the emergency vehicle follow you until it is clear and safe for you to pull over.

Brow of a hill or blind bend:

Don't stop on the brow of a hill or blind bend. This action is likely to put the emergency vehicle driver in further jeopardy.

Hospitals - Fire Stations:

Don't pull over at the entrances of these premises as you may hinder one of their emergency vehicles from leaving.

Stopped or Parked Emergency Vehicle:

When you see a stopped emergency vehicle, slow down and continue with caution giving the emergency vehicle a wide berth. Watch out for obstacles, other drivers, and Rubbernecker's.

At Road Junctions:

All approaching vehicles from all directions MUST give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the junction. Never block the junction as this could impede the emergency vehicle.

At Traffic Lights:

All approaching vehicles from all directions MUST give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights.

Red Traffic Lights:

If you are stopped at red traffic lights, with an emergency vehicle behind who wants to get past and his way is blocked by your vehicle. You cannot legally advance through the red traffic stop light. Legally you should wait until the lights turn green, continue forward and pull over as soon as it is safe to do so, letting the emergency vehicle pass you.

Box Junctions:

If you are stopped at a box junction, with an emergency vehicle behind who wants to get past and his way is blocked by your vehicle. You cannot legally enter the box junction until it is your turn.

Bus Lanes:

The same rules apply, if you enter a bus lane to let an emergency vehicle past, you are liable to a fixed penalty fine.

Every day drivers face the dilemma of breaking the rules to help expedite the emergency vehicle. We can debate the rights and wrongs of these situations; But the fact is, the only person with the proper training and legal exemptions to break the rules, is the emergency driver.

GEM Road Safety Charity have produced a really useful video that illustrates what to do when an emergency vehicle approaches. Visit GEM at http://www.bluelight
aware.org.uk

What to do when Emergency Vehicles Approach

Tips and Advice - Article - No70 RoadDriver 2010

http://www.roaddrive
r.co.uk/content/safe
ty_tip/79/
[quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]khmer saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dresnez[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Phantomerer[/bold] wrote: I am not saying this is the case here, however, some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots. I very nearly had a head-on crash with an ambulance that was overtaking (no sirens) on a blind bend.[/p][/quote]From one incidence you manage to extrapolate that 'some ambulance drivers are dangerous idiots' Ambulance drivers are in fact paramedics. They undergo very advanced driver training, including blue light training, driving on a skid pad etc which they must pass as part of their training to become a paramedic. Ambulances are not the most balanced of vehicles unlike a car with the centre of gravity making it more stable. All other road users are to give way to ambulances, fire and police, re: the highway code. I know all this because my daughter is a paramedic. Thus I find your comments thoroughly disgusting. I don't know the facts of this very tragic accident but my condolences to all involved, family and work colleagues. A very very sad loss.[/p][/quote]Having been hit by a fire service vehicle with my young daughter in the car I understand the comment made. Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights etc if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle and are not made to suddenly change speed or direction. This sadly does not always happen as emergency vehicles seem to think everything needs to get out of the way no matter what, even if this puts other drivers in danger. My condolences to the families as no matter what happened (and we do not know at this point) this is a tragic accident and loss of life of a public servant going about their duty R.I.P.[/p][/quote]'Emergency vehicles can only proceed through red lights if the public have voluntarily conceded their lawful right of way to the emergency vehicle' At Traffic Lights: all approaching vehicles from all directions must give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Nothing voluntary about it, emergency vehicles have the right of way. Maybe that is where YOU are going wrong. It is not optional it is compulsory to give way. Why wouldn't you give way, that ambulance might be going to your kid. Morally and legally there is no reason not to give way. This doesn't apply when emergency vehicles are not on an emergency call. Section 87 of the Road Traffic regulations act 1984 states: No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire brigade ( or in England fire and rescue), ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ The post I replied is crass to say the least. I bet you drivers are not so keen to not give way to police. Ambulance drivers can take your reg number and report you to the police for not getting out of the way. They should definitely use this facility more.[/p][/quote]Optional when it is SAFE i say SAFE to do so. No one would want to intentionally not give way to an emergency vehicle unless they are morally corrupt but with a 2 year old girl in the back i,m not about to do hanbd brake turns speed up or change course suddenly putting us and potentially others in danger. The emergency vehicle has to proceed safely and therefore the public must be able to get out the way without being put in danger. If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. Not once have you mentioned safety of the public which is paramount My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergewant to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit. The driver i my case had to re sit his advanced driving test I was compensated and my written off car repaired by HFRS insurance as he did not act in a safe manner and had no regard for others safety just presuming he could do all you quote in your post he needs to do it in a safe manner ensuring a legal right of way has been conceded or if you like the public have been able to get out the way safely . My experience as you will see from government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident. Once again condolences to the families.[/p][/quote]My first response was to tell the driver to get to the emergency and we would swap details later. Suddenly it was not such an emergency and they 'logged off' If you want to quote traffic regulations chapter and verse don't cherry pick the parts that suit.The driver in my case had to re sit his advanced driving test and I was compensated. My written off car was repaired BY HFRS insurance company as he was found to have not of acted in a safe manner. He had no regard for the safety of others and presumed as you do in all you quote that he could just speed through red lights.He did not ensure that voluntary right of way had been conceded or if you like the public could get out the way safely. My experience as you can see by government figures of accidents involving emergency vehicles sadly is not an isolated incident Once again condolences to the families I am pleased to say my beautifull little girl although not actually helping daddy by pressing keys when he is trying to respond to a post is alive and healthy[/p][/quote]DRESNEZ READ POINT 4 (taken from HFRS service orders) http://www.hantsfire .gov.uk/theservice/s erviceorders.htm?id= 52973 Service Orders Printing Service Orders Please note that as Service Orders are frequently updated, if you print a Service Order from the website, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed for more than a 24 hour period following printing. SO/8/11/2/38 (MP 01/10) Red traffic lights and Responding Vehicles 1 Road traffic law Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 The legislation that allows emergency responding vehicles to proceed through red traffic lights is Regulation 26 of the Traffic Signs and General Directions Act 1994 2 Regulation 26. red traffic lights (a) The red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the STOP line, however this is subject to: (b) When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb disposal, national blood service or Police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance to sub para (a), would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion. Sub para (a) shall not apply and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that the vehicle shall not proceed beyond the STOP line in a manner, or at a time likely to endanger any person or cause the driver of any vehicle, proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal, to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident. Note: Hampshire Fire & Rescue Service recognises that this is a very complex area of response driving because of the vastly different scenarios incurred at the many types of traffic light controlled junctions on roads. Any policy enforced may be acceptable for one scenario but pose a very serious risk for another. This therefore identifies a major training requirement that can only be fulfilled through blue light driver training. 3 Training of response drivers All emergency response drivers must complete the revised EFAD or ELVD course criteria (01/02/05), during initial or refresher training, be fully conversant with Regulation 26 of the Traffic signs and General Directions Act 1994 included in this Driving Policy, and at all times during response driving comply with the guidelines identified within this policy document. 4 Other road users response vehicles Under no circumstances must any HFRS emergency responding vehicle proceed through a traffic light controlled junction, if other road users have not voluntarily conceded their legal right of way. During emergency response driving when negotiating red traffic lights, HFRS drivers must not force any other road user to concede their legal right of way. Any right of way voluntary conceded by other road users can be used to progress. The interpretation of the white STOP line shall be of a “give way line” and progression through the lights should not proceed until the voluntary concession by other road users of their legal right of way has been assessed and confirmed. 5 Speed of response vehicles through red traffic lights The speed of a vehicle during emergency responding through red traffic lights should be reduced in order to enable accurate assessments to comply with the requirements detailed in ‘Other Road Users Response Vehicles’ section above. Drivers of responding vehicles must be aware that the body language of a responding vehicle can be very confusing to other road users, especially when negotiating traffic light controlled junctions. Stopping unnecessarily when clear progression can be clearly made could further the confusion of other road users and cause them to retake their legal right of way. Owner:Malcolm Pinchin Author:Malcolm Pinchin Contact:Malcolm Pinchin Review:1/2011[/p][/quote]Can you now voluntarily concede that you are WRONG!?[/p][/quote]I have no idea of the circumstances or details of your accident. It is not my place to judge. I am really pleased you and your little girl were not hurt in your accident. I have heard of a lot of police car accidents on emergency calls but not Fire or Ambulance till this week. A fire tender and an ambulance. Still rare considering the amount of calls they do over the country. Ambulance personnel are also subject to 'response times' which they will fail if not done in the time allocated. This might account for some more risk taking with some drivers. But IF there have been increases in the numbers of accidents this MAY be a factor. NO actually I do not concede anything. Sorry. Voluntary - if I feel like it, optional. I do not believe that it is voluntary whether you give way to emergency vehicles or not when it is SAFE to do so. It is compulsory. I believe it is an offence to impede the progress of an emergency vehicle. My information from 2010, so not that long ago, copied and pasted below. We cannot have conflicting rules and information. This will just cause confusion Emergency Vehicles and Driving situations On a Motorway: The emergency services will use the hard shoulder if all lanes are blocked, so don't drive onto, or block the hard shoulder. Pull over to the inside lane if possible and wait for the emergency vehicle to pass. Watch out for more than one emergency vehicle. The emergency vehicle may be en-route to a road traffic accident, so prepare yourself in case you are approaching the incident. Check to make sure the way is clear and signal before merging back into the fast-flowing traffic lane. Accident Scene: When passing the scene of an accident do not be distracted or slow down unnecessarily (for example if an accident is on the other side of a dual carriageway). This is called rubbernecking and could cause another accident if you slow down or take your eyes of the road to have a look. One-Way Street: If you are travelling along a one-way street or a two-way road where the outside lane is congested? In this situation, it would be proper to continue at a reasonable speed letting the emergency vehicle follow you until it is clear and safe for you to pull over. Brow of a hill or blind bend: Don't stop on the brow of a hill or blind bend. This action is likely to put the emergency vehicle driver in further jeopardy. Hospitals - Fire Stations: Don't pull over at the entrances of these premises as you may hinder one of their emergency vehicles from leaving. Stopped or Parked Emergency Vehicle: When you see a stopped emergency vehicle, slow down and continue with caution giving the emergency vehicle a wide berth. Watch out for obstacles, other drivers, and Rubbernecker's. At Road Junctions: All approaching vehicles from all directions MUST give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the junction. Never block the junction as this could impede the emergency vehicle. At Traffic Lights: All approaching vehicles from all directions MUST give way to an emergency vehicle until it passes through the traffic lights. Red Traffic Lights: If you are stopped at red traffic lights, with an emergency vehicle behind who wants to get past and his way is blocked by your vehicle. You cannot legally advance through the red traffic stop light. Legally you should wait until the lights turn green, continue forward and pull over as soon as it is safe to do so, letting the emergency vehicle pass you. Box Junctions: If you are stopped at a box junction, with an emergency vehicle behind who wants to get past and his way is blocked by your vehicle. You cannot legally enter the box junction until it is your turn. Bus Lanes: The same rules apply, if you enter a bus lane to let an emergency vehicle past, you are liable to a fixed penalty fine. Every day drivers face the dilemma of breaking the rules to help expedite the emergency vehicle. We can debate the rights and wrongs of these situations; But the fact is, the only person with the proper training and legal exemptions to break the rules, is the emergency driver. GEM Road Safety Charity have produced a really useful video that illustrates what to do when an emergency vehicle approaches. Visit GEM at http://www.bluelight aware.org.uk What to do when Emergency Vehicles Approach Tips and Advice - Article - No70 RoadDriver 2010 http://www.roaddrive r.co.uk/content/safe ty_tip/79/ Dresnez
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