Police hunt as 'vulnerable' man attacked in Northam is in intensive care at Southampton General Hospital

Daily Echo: Man fights for life after horrific attack in Southampton Man fights for life after horrific attack in Southampton

A VULNERABLE man was left with “potentially life-threatening” head injuries after an attack in Southampton.

The 64-year-old victim from Northam, who is well-known in the community as Fred, was left with a broken jaw, cheekbone and eye socket.

The attack happened in Northam between 6pm on Tuesday and 9.20am the following morning.

Detectives investigating the attack have appealed to the public for any information that could help track down his assailants.

It is known that youngsters have taunted and goaded Fred on several occasions near his house in Augustine Road.

On Tuesday he was uninjured, but when a housemate saw him the next morning he had the head injuries.

He said three local “kids” had caused them.

Paramedics were called on Thursday and Fred was taken to Southampton General Hospital, where doctors diagnosed his injuries.

His injuries have since deteriorated and he was moved to the intensive care ward.

A police spokesman said the injuries are “potentially life-threatening”.

Fred has been unable to tell police what happened, and officers want to hear from anyone who saw a man being assaulted in Northam between Tuesday night and Wednesday morning.

Anyone with information should contact Det Sgt Jeremy Boughay at Shirley CID on 101.

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4:22pm Fri 13 Dec 13

cantthinkofone says...

Search for "Augustine Road, Southampton" on StreetMaps and select StreetView, and the first thing you see is a police riot van.
Search for "Augustine Road, Southampton" on StreetMaps and select StreetView, and the first thing you see is a police riot van. cantthinkofone

4:42pm Fri 13 Dec 13

kaido says...

To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre.

What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho
lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO.
To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre. What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO. kaido

6:20pm Fri 13 Dec 13

cantthinkofone says...

kaido wrote:
To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre.

What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho

lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO.
Absolutely.

Most people in general are at heart decent and (for want of a better word) 'nice'. And every area has a minority that aren't.

The difference between somewhere like Northam and somewhere like Chipping Norton is that the unpleasant types in Northam will attack vulnerable people at random, whereas those in Chipping Norton will just make their employees work in awful conditions and pay them less than a living wage. Both are the actions of ****s, but the former is more visible to the public and media.

Unfortunately for the likes of Fred, the other difference is that the former makes unavoidable targets of their neighbours purely for being in their proximity, whereas at least the victims of the latter have some degree of choice over whether they allow themselves to be affected.
[quote][p][bold]kaido[/bold] wrote: To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre. What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO.[/p][/quote]Absolutely. Most people in general are at heart decent and (for want of a better word) 'nice'. And every area has a minority that aren't. The difference between somewhere like Northam and somewhere like Chipping Norton is that the unpleasant types in Northam will attack vulnerable people at random, whereas those in Chipping Norton will just make their employees work in awful conditions and pay them less than a living wage. Both are the actions of ****s, but the former is more visible to the public and media. Unfortunately for the likes of Fred, the other difference is that the former makes unavoidable targets of their neighbours purely for being in their proximity, whereas at least the victims of the latter have some degree of choice over whether they allow themselves to be affected. cantthinkofone

6:54pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Mary80 says...

Arrest them for attempted murder i say maybe time in an adult jail will shock them into changing their thug ways
Arrest them for attempted murder i say maybe time in an adult jail will shock them into changing their thug ways Mary80

7:17pm Fri 13 Dec 13

solomum says...

Broken Britain. I pray this man recovers and his attackers are caught and dealt with appropriately.
Broken Britain. I pray this man recovers and his attackers are caught and dealt with appropriately. solomum

7:26pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Lazy says...

B@st@rds !!!!!!!
B@st@rds !!!!!!! Lazy

8:32pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Matt Probert says...

So much for the spirit of Christmas...
So much for the spirit of Christmas... Matt Probert

9:39pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Mary80 says...

Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in Mary80

9:54pm Fri 13 Dec 13

imspacedout says...

Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
[quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way. imspacedout

11:22pm Fri 13 Dec 13

cantthinkofone says...

imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Indeed.

And to those who downvoted your comment - It's not a zero sum game. It's not binary, not "one or the other". It can be *both*. Recognising that antisocial environments are more likely to generate antisocial people does NOT mean the same thing as condoning or excusing those people's actions.

But if we, as a society, genuinely want to reduce the amount of random violence and general unpleasantness around us, then we need to do a bit of simple root cause analysis. And like it or not, that leads us to an answer that's a bit more complicated that "they're scum".

Of course, if we don't really care about addressing the problem but just want to feel righteous about it, we can simply be content with the latter position...
[quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Indeed. And to those who downvoted your comment - It's not a zero sum game. It's not binary, not "one or the other". It can be *both*. Recognising that antisocial environments are more likely to generate antisocial people does NOT mean the same thing as condoning or excusing those people's actions. But if we, as a society, genuinely want to reduce the amount of random violence and general unpleasantness around us, then we need to do a bit of simple root cause analysis. And like it or not, that leads us to an answer that's a bit more complicated that "they're scum". Of course, if we don't really care about addressing the problem but just want to feel righteous about it, we can simply be content with the latter position... cantthinkofone

12:04am Sat 14 Dec 13

Mary80 says...

imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
[quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun Mary80

4:53am Sat 14 Dec 13

skeptik says...

The same age as this man, a lifetime as an hardened infantryman - this is outside my compass and not ashamed to say it moistens the eyes when reading about a man unable to defend himself against moronic, cowardly thuggery is left in this state. Indeed we need carrot and stick, sadly that has become unbalanced as the stick (not literal) has been put away, we have an army of folk dreaming up obscure reasons for this and few willing to dish out punishment - the words oft used by judges of the past, 'the severe sentence is imposed to deter others' now we read of multiple offences clocked up and sent back out to add to the score card and impressing their peers.
The same age as this man, a lifetime as an hardened infantryman - this is outside my compass and not ashamed to say it moistens the eyes when reading about a man unable to defend himself against moronic, cowardly thuggery is left in this state. Indeed we need carrot and stick, sadly that has become unbalanced as the stick (not literal) has been put away, we have an army of folk dreaming up obscure reasons for this and few willing to dish out punishment - the words oft used by judges of the past, 'the severe sentence is imposed to deter others' now we read of multiple offences clocked up and sent back out to add to the score card and impressing their peers. skeptik

8:37am Sat 14 Dec 13

Dai Rear says...

The difference between somewhere like Northam and somewhere like Chipping Norton is that the unpleasant types in Northam will attack vulnerable people at random, whereas those in Chipping Norton will just make their employees work in awful conditions and pay them less than a living wage. Both are the actions of ****s, but the former is more visible to the public and media.
Where on earth does THAT come from? The main employment in Chippy will be retail, with Sainsbury heading the list there'll be an Aldi or Lidl soon; Cromwell Park employs a few. There are restaurants and pubs employing staff and some travel out to Heythrop or work at the golf club or, no doubt, at BMW in Cowley or Kraft in Banbury. Where are these "awful conditions"? have you ever actually been to Chippy? If you want the difference Chippy has quite a small public housing sector and Southampton, like many large cities is saddled with the 1960's "legacy" of failed public housing projects. What to do? Take the state out of housing altogether. The People are always superior to the State.
The difference between somewhere like Northam and somewhere like Chipping Norton is that the unpleasant types in Northam will attack vulnerable people at random, whereas those in Chipping Norton will just make their employees work in awful conditions and pay them less than a living wage. Both are the actions of ****s, but the former is more visible to the public and media. Where on earth does THAT come from? The main employment in Chippy will be retail, with Sainsbury heading the list there'll be an Aldi or Lidl soon; Cromwell Park employs a few. There are restaurants and pubs employing staff and some travel out to Heythrop or work at the golf club or, no doubt, at BMW in Cowley or Kraft in Banbury. Where are these "awful conditions"? have you ever actually been to Chippy? If you want the difference Chippy has quite a small public housing sector and Southampton, like many large cities is saddled with the 1960's "legacy" of failed public housing projects. What to do? Take the state out of housing altogether. The People are always superior to the State. Dai Rear

6:21pm Sat 14 Dec 13

lowe esteem says...

Lazy wrote:
B@st@rds !!!!!!!
Cowardly B@st@rds!!!!!! More like.
[quote][p][bold]Lazy[/bold] wrote: B@st@rds !!!!!!![/p][/quote]Cowardly B@st@rds!!!!!! More like. lowe esteem

6:27pm Sat 14 Dec 13

Saint Botley says...

I am absolutely sickened by this. Throw the book at them.
I am absolutely sickened by this. Throw the book at them. Saint Botley

7:02pm Sat 14 Dec 13

st1halo says...

kaido wrote:
To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre.

What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho

lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO.
Ocean Village? Wasn't an old lady murdered there recently?
The council have spent countless millions on Northam over the years and plenty of other estates. As far as I'm concerned it's no use deflecting the issue by blaming it on social housing. I doubt Northam's contribution to the crime rate is any different to anywhere else across the city.
People cause crime, not areas.
[quote][p][bold]kaido[/bold] wrote: To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre. What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO.[/p][/quote]Ocean Village? Wasn't an old lady murdered there recently? The council have spent countless millions on Northam over the years and plenty of other estates. As far as I'm concerned it's no use deflecting the issue by blaming it on social housing. I doubt Northam's contribution to the crime rate is any different to anywhere else across the city. People cause crime, not areas. st1halo

3:49am Sun 15 Dec 13

Someone_New says...

Mary80 wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?
[quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun[/p][/quote]But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime? Someone_New

8:27am Sun 15 Dec 13

Dai Rear says...

Someone_New wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?
Well, there was less crime in the 30's when people were actually poor, not just "slightly less affluent" which is how the Humpty Dumpty Department at the UN defined "poverty" some years ago. So maybe you're not right.
[quote][p][bold]Someone_New[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun[/p][/quote]But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?[/p][/quote]Well, there was less crime in the 30's when people were actually poor, not just "slightly less affluent" which is how the Humpty Dumpty Department at the UN defined "poverty" some years ago. So maybe you're not right. Dai Rear

8:31am Sun 15 Dec 13

Dai Rear says...

Oh, and it might be no coincidence that punishment in the 30's was more condign. Just a thought
Oh, and it might be no coincidence that punishment in the 30's was more condign. Just a thought Dai Rear

12:21pm Sun 15 Dec 13

Inform Al says...

Dai Rear wrote:
Someone_New wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?
Well, there was less crime in the 30's when people were actually poor, not just "slightly less affluent" which is how the Humpty Dumpty Department at the UN defined "poverty" some years ago. So maybe you're not right.
Yes, I was dragged up in what was actually defined as a slum area in Paddiongton, and moved to Roehampton in 1960 due to slum clearance. We had no real crime in those days and the only significant event I recall was at the other end of my street in about 1958 when two brothers attacked a patrolling copper. Local residents came out in force and helped the copper and held onto the two idiots that had disgraced our street until the police van arrived, courtesy of a 999 call from a resident as there was no such thing as personal radios in those days. It all went downhill in the 1960s when punishment was done away with and community pride went down the pan.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Someone_New[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun[/p][/quote]But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?[/p][/quote]Well, there was less crime in the 30's when people were actually poor, not just "slightly less affluent" which is how the Humpty Dumpty Department at the UN defined "poverty" some years ago. So maybe you're not right.[/p][/quote]Yes, I was dragged up in what was actually defined as a slum area in Paddiongton, and moved to Roehampton in 1960 due to slum clearance. We had no real crime in those days and the only significant event I recall was at the other end of my street in about 1958 when two brothers attacked a patrolling copper. Local residents came out in force and helped the copper and held onto the two idiots that had disgraced our street until the police van arrived, courtesy of a 999 call from a resident as there was no such thing as personal radios in those days. It all went downhill in the 1960s when punishment was done away with and community pride went down the pan. Inform Al

12:21pm Sun 15 Dec 13

richard57 says...

Someone_New wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?
WHAT A LOAD OF TOSH
[quote][p][bold]Someone_New[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun[/p][/quote]But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?[/p][/quote]WHAT A LOAD OF TOSH richard57

12:24pm Sun 15 Dec 13

richard57 says...

Inform Al wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
Someone_New wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?
Well, there was less crime in the 30's when people were actually poor, not just "slightly less affluent" which is how the Humpty Dumpty Department at the UN defined "poverty" some years ago. So maybe you're not right.
Yes, I was dragged up in what was actually defined as a slum area in Paddiongton, and moved to Roehampton in 1960 due to slum clearance. We had no real crime in those days and the only significant event I recall was at the other end of my street in about 1958 when two brothers attacked a patrolling copper. Local residents came out in force and helped the copper and held onto the two idiots that had disgraced our street until the police van arrived, courtesy of a 999 call from a resident as there was no such thing as personal radios in those days. It all went downhill in the 1960s when punishment was done away with and community pride went down the pan.
never a truer word spoken
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Someone_New[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun[/p][/quote]But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?[/p][/quote]Well, there was less crime in the 30's when people were actually poor, not just "slightly less affluent" which is how the Humpty Dumpty Department at the UN defined "poverty" some years ago. So maybe you're not right.[/p][/quote]Yes, I was dragged up in what was actually defined as a slum area in Paddiongton, and moved to Roehampton in 1960 due to slum clearance. We had no real crime in those days and the only significant event I recall was at the other end of my street in about 1958 when two brothers attacked a patrolling copper. Local residents came out in force and helped the copper and held onto the two idiots that had disgraced our street until the police van arrived, courtesy of a 999 call from a resident as there was no such thing as personal radios in those days. It all went downhill in the 1960s when punishment was done away with and community pride went down the pan.[/p][/quote]never a truer word spoken richard57

9:11am Mon 16 Dec 13

Raxx says...

Dai Rear wrote:
The difference between somewhere like Northam and somewhere like Chipping Norton is that the unpleasant types in Northam will attack vulnerable people at random, whereas those in Chipping Norton will just make their employees work in awful conditions and pay them less than a living wage. Both are the actions of ****s, but the former is more visible to the public and media.
Where on earth does THAT come from? The main employment in Chippy will be retail, with Sainsbury heading the list there'll be an Aldi or Lidl soon; Cromwell Park employs a few. There are restaurants and pubs employing staff and some travel out to Heythrop or work at the golf club or, no doubt, at BMW in Cowley or Kraft in Banbury. Where are these "awful conditions"? have you ever actually been to Chippy? If you want the difference Chippy has quite a small public housing sector and Southampton, like many large cities is saddled with the 1960's "legacy" of failed public housing projects. What to do? Take the state out of housing altogether. The People are always superior to the State.
You think that business owners only live where their outlets are located do you? Lol...
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The difference between somewhere like Northam and somewhere like Chipping Norton is that the unpleasant types in Northam will attack vulnerable people at random, whereas those in Chipping Norton will just make their employees work in awful conditions and pay them less than a living wage. Both are the actions of ****s, but the former is more visible to the public and media. Where on earth does THAT come from? The main employment in Chippy will be retail, with Sainsbury heading the list there'll be an Aldi or Lidl soon; Cromwell Park employs a few. There are restaurants and pubs employing staff and some travel out to Heythrop or work at the golf club or, no doubt, at BMW in Cowley or Kraft in Banbury. Where are these "awful conditions"? have you ever actually been to Chippy? If you want the difference Chippy has quite a small public housing sector and Southampton, like many large cities is saddled with the 1960's "legacy" of failed public housing projects. What to do? Take the state out of housing altogether. The People are always superior to the State.[/p][/quote]You think that business owners only live where their outlets are located do you? Lol... Raxx

10:04am Mon 16 Dec 13

Jesus_02 says...

imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
I really can’t see what people see wrong with this comment. It doesn’t condone or make excuses for anything.

The "Zero tolerance" of which people speak needs to come from the community from which they come and that community needs to be supported by the wider community.

It’s all a bit easy for people to wash their hands of our children actions but the community needs to side with police rather than against it. More than one person knows who did this.
[quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]I really can’t see what people see wrong with this comment. It doesn’t condone or make excuses for anything. The "Zero tolerance" of which people speak needs to come from the community from which they come and that community needs to be supported by the wider community. It’s all a bit easy for people to wash their hands of our children actions but the community needs to side with police rather than against it. More than one person knows who did this. Jesus_02

1:43pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Mary80 says...

Someone_New wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?
I know of people who came from bad backgrounds they did NOT turn into OAP beating scum, it is down to the PERSON not their enviroment
[quote][p][bold]Someone_New[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun[/p][/quote]But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?[/p][/quote]I know of people who came from bad backgrounds they did NOT turn into OAP beating scum, it is down to the PERSON not their enviroment Mary80

1:54pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Inform Al says...

Mary80 wrote:
Someone_New wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun
But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?
I know of people who came from bad backgrounds they did NOT turn into OAP beating scum, it is down to the PERSON not their enviroment
And to the almost total lack of a deterrent, in fact living in supported accommodation where the support is almost non existant, some of the poor blighters here that are confined to their flats 24/7 would be better off in prison with 3 meals a day, 24/7 warden service and multichannel TV. Priorities are all wrong.
[quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Someone_New[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Uh plenty of people come from impoverished backgrounds they don't go around battering an old man for fun[/p][/quote]But even you - who seems to demand some sort of zero-tolerance police state where any crime of any description is punishable by judge dredd administered death - must agree there is a relationship between levels of crime and economic status / impoverished backgrounds? And that improving peoples' quality of life would decrease crime?[/p][/quote]I know of people who came from bad backgrounds they did NOT turn into OAP beating scum, it is down to the PERSON not their enviroment[/p][/quote]And to the almost total lack of a deterrent, in fact living in supported accommodation where the support is almost non existant, some of the poor blighters here that are confined to their flats 24/7 would be better off in prison with 3 meals a day, 24/7 warden service and multichannel TV. Priorities are all wrong. Inform Al

7:35pm Mon 16 Dec 13

cantthinkofone says...

cantthinkofone wrote:
imspacedout wrote:
Mary80 wrote:
Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in
There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.
Indeed.

And to those who downvoted your comment - It's not a zero sum game. It's not binary, not "one or the other". It can be *both*. Recognising that antisocial environments are more likely to generate antisocial people does NOT mean the same thing as condoning or excusing those people's actions.

But if we, as a society, genuinely want to reduce the amount of random violence and general unpleasantness around us, then we need to do a bit of simple root cause analysis. And like it or not, that leads us to an answer that's a bit more complicated that "they're scum".

Of course, if we don't really care about addressing the problem but just want to feel righteous about it, we can simply be content with the latter position...
Hilarious that this has been so fervently down-voted for the outrageous suggestion that we should do something to reduce the incidence of these kinds of attacks. What a dreadful suggestion! :-D

An awful lot of very selfish people out there, who at heart are far more interested in their own sense of righteous indignation than having any genuine sense of empathy for victims...
[quote][p][bold]cantthinkofone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]imspacedout[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Nasty little thugs like that attacking a 64 year old man they should by rights be charged with attempted murder as they knew darn well what they were doing. Let's hope we don't get the "aw bless they must have had a hard life, show them mercy" brigade wading in[/p][/quote]There's no justification for this attack, and it cannot be condoned. However, like it or not this is partly due to environment and the way they were raised / what they've been around and seen. That said, that's no excuse as many who've known similar situations would learn better. Still, we must avoid extremes of either letting them get away with it unpunished or how some would comment on articles such as these to lock them up forever, or kill them etc...because ultimately we all hold responsibility to set a better example than this to youths - who if not - in turn grow up to be this way.[/p][/quote]Indeed. And to those who downvoted your comment - It's not a zero sum game. It's not binary, not "one or the other". It can be *both*. Recognising that antisocial environments are more likely to generate antisocial people does NOT mean the same thing as condoning or excusing those people's actions. But if we, as a society, genuinely want to reduce the amount of random violence and general unpleasantness around us, then we need to do a bit of simple root cause analysis. And like it or not, that leads us to an answer that's a bit more complicated that "they're scum". Of course, if we don't really care about addressing the problem but just want to feel righteous about it, we can simply be content with the latter position...[/p][/quote]Hilarious that this has been so fervently down-voted for the outrageous suggestion that we should do something to reduce the incidence of these kinds of attacks. What a dreadful suggestion! :-D An awful lot of very selfish people out there, who at heart are far more interested in their own sense of righteous indignation than having any genuine sense of empathy for victims... cantthinkofone

3:55pm Thu 26 Dec 13

ArtisticalFlaire says...

when i lived in northam last year i saw 3 lads put a petrol bomb through the letter box of a block opposite where i lived at (early hours of the morning), i was the only 1 to call the fire brigade. I was later questioned by the police as they told me a disabled elderly male was being terrorized. They said he was lucky to have survived.. Now this happens A YEAR LATER !!!! Why did they not move him away!! All this suffering he has had. PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU FRED!
when i lived in northam last year i saw 3 lads put a petrol bomb through the letter box of a block opposite where i lived at (early hours of the morning), i was the only 1 to call the fire brigade. I was later questioned by the police as they told me a disabled elderly male was being terrorized. They said he was lucky to have survived.. Now this happens A YEAR LATER !!!! Why did they not move him away!! All this suffering he has had. PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU FRED! ArtisticalFlaire

12:23pm Fri 27 Dec 13

RealTlk says...

how many people commenting on here live in northam or know what its like to grow up on an estate that the council use as its dumping ground northam has always been a rough place even in the 30's i knw my grandparents lived there the problem is there was still a community now because of the councils immigrants first policy on housing everyone is a stranger and they use these areas to dump the riff raff they dont want spoiling there nice posh area. these comments sections in the echo are pathetic peple are always quick to write a area of as bad but never make a stand to there councils and governments who are causing us to go back to slum areas where u stick ur poor and unfortunate
how many people commenting on here live in northam or know what its like to grow up on an estate that the council use as its dumping ground northam has always been a rough place even in the 30's i knw my grandparents lived there the problem is there was still a community now because of the councils immigrants first policy on housing everyone is a stranger and they use these areas to dump the riff raff they dont want spoiling there nice posh area. these comments sections in the echo are pathetic peple are always quick to write a area of as bad but never make a stand to there councils and governments who are causing us to go back to slum areas where u stick ur poor and unfortunate RealTlk

8:10pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Sir Ad E Noid says...

Mary80 wrote:
Arrest them for attempted murder i say maybe time in an adult jail will shock them into changing their thug ways
Mary, totally agree, just need to get the person(s) responsible into a Police cell !!
[quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Arrest them for attempted murder i say maybe time in an adult jail will shock them into changing their thug ways[/p][/quote]Mary, totally agree, just need to get the person(s) responsible into a Police cell !! Sir Ad E Noid

1:47pm Sun 29 Dec 13

dolphin68 says...

We all would like justice for crimes committed but sorry ladies and gentlemen this is england freedom of speach gone choices gone respect gone police walking streets and estates like 60 70 80s gone being able to leave doors unlocked gone and its getting worse
We all would like justice for crimes committed but sorry ladies and gentlemen this is england freedom of speach gone choices gone respect gone police walking streets and estates like 60 70 80s gone being able to leave doors unlocked gone and its getting worse dolphin68

1:13pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Bella73 says...

kaido wrote:
To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre.

What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho

lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO.
Excuse me it never used to be rough back in the early 80 s I never had any problems it's today's. culture the parents don't discipline them i had 2 smacks on my leg and backside by my mum and I understood to respect my elders and say p.ease and thank you I taught my son who is nearly 22 the same and I was so impressed when a neighbor on my estate at marchwood said you sons wonderful he helped my mother off the floor after a fall and picked her shopping up and called an ambulance she was a dementia sufferer he always took her back home , and carried her shopping , it's today's under 12 that I think will be worse its a pity that your told not to discipline your offspring by do good social workers as it my parents and grandparents any harm , I'm hoping Fred will be ok as it's such a shame that someone would do such a mean cruel and. Sick act to a vulnerable person. If somebody hurt a family member or someone in front of me I think I would go nuts I'm afraid
[quote][p][bold]kaido[/bold] wrote: To be fair on that area, there are some nice friendly people that live in Northam, the problem is that the area is just so rough, 'd argue worse than St Mary's as at least there you have St Mary's street, the college, church and close proximity to the centre. What bugs me about Northam is that it has so much potential given a lot of land surrounding it needs redevelopment too. Shamrock Quay too which could be turned into a better version of Ocean Village. Also nice walks along the river. The council have a big plan for the city centre but it seems like areas like Northam/Bevois/Nicho lstown get overlooked yet. Improve the areas and crime will fall IMO.[/p][/quote]Excuse me it never used to be rough back in the early 80 s I never had any problems it's today's. culture the parents don't discipline them i had 2 smacks on my leg and backside by my mum and I understood to respect my elders and say p.ease and thank you I taught my son who is nearly 22 the same and I was so impressed when a neighbor on my estate at marchwood said you sons wonderful he helped my mother off the floor after a fall and picked her shopping up and called an ambulance she was a dementia sufferer he always took her back home , and carried her shopping , it's today's under 12 that I think will be worse its a pity that your told not to discipline your offspring by do good social workers as it my parents and grandparents any harm , I'm hoping Fred will be ok as it's such a shame that someone would do such a mean cruel and. Sick act to a vulnerable person. If somebody hurt a family member or someone in front of me I think I would go nuts I'm afraid Bella73

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