Groups campaign to stop Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub

Daily Echo: Campaigners outside the Wool House. Campaigners outside the Wool House.

ART lovers in Southampton have pleaded with council bosses to scrap plans to convert one of the city’s most historic buildings into a pub and restaurant.

The city council is currently in negotiations with the Dancing Man Brewery over a deal which would see the Wool House become an open plan brewery.

But more than 240 people have signed a petition to retain it as a community art centre, which it was used for from June until this month.

The 15th century building in Town Quay was formerly the city’s maritime museum, but that closed in 2011.

Arts group Element Arts was given temporary permission to use the Grade one listed building as a cultural centre in the summer, and it featured art exhibitions, music, dance and film performances and workshops.

In September, the Daily Echo revealed that the council was in negotiations with The Dancing Man Brewery, which owns the nearby Platform Tavern, over a commercial lease.

Brewery bosses say their plans would respect the building’s rich history, and could create 30 jobs. They have also pledged that the building would house a new tourist information centre, a facility which Southampton has lacked since the old one closed earlier this year.

A planning application is expected to be handed in in the new year, and the council ended Element Arts’ tenure at the Wool House earlier this month.

It was estimated that more than 10,000 people visited the various events held there between June and December. Now a group of art lovers is petitioning council bosses to change their minds and allow arts groups to continue to use the building.

Petition creator Joe Hudson, a dance teacher from Shirley, said: “Culture, and having a space which promotes and shares it, is a valuable public resource, one that was establishing itself well in the Wool House.

“So why would they want to destroy that? How about listening to the public to decide what best to do with this public resource?”

Sally Bibb added: “I believe that this building, one of the oldest in Southampton, and an important part of its heritage should remain a resource for the community.

“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

Brian Rowlands said: “The area does not need another ale swilling venue. This valuable historic venue would be a huge loss to local people and visiting tourists for many years for the sake of another pub - Southampton councillors, wake up and smell the coffee.”

The council’s leisure and economic development czar, Cllr Matt Tucker, said: “The proposal from the Dancing Man Brewery – a Southampton-based company – to take on the lease to the Wool House would secure a rental income for the council, would pass on some of the repair obligations to the tenant and would guarantee further investment in the building.

“It would also create up to 30 paid jobs and contribute to the city’s economic growth.”

Comments (119)

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11:37am Tue 17 Dec 13

Zootopian says...

An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have.

For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there.

Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money.

What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness!
An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have. For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there. Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money. What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness! Zootopian

11:46am Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience. sotonboy84

12:02pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Zootopian wrote:
An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have.

For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there.

Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money.

What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness!
Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours?

If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city.

Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have. For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there. Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money. What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness![/p][/quote]Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours? If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city. Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of. sotonboy84

12:11pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent Lone Ranger.

12:30pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

As a lover of the arts and ale I believe this place would be best suited as a micro brewery pub restaurant it would make the building more accessible fir most people and wouldn't this art group have a new home in the cultural quarter.
As a lover of the arts and ale I believe this place would be best suited as a micro brewery pub restaurant it would make the building more accessible fir most people and wouldn't this art group have a new home in the cultural quarter. Brusher Mills

12:33pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Zootopian says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have.

For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there.

Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money.

What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness!
Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours?

If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city.

Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.
If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city.

Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full.

Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this.

I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have. For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there. Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money. What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness![/p][/quote]Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours? If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city. Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.[/p][/quote]If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city. Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full. Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this. I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating. Zootopian

12:34pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour. sotonboy84

12:37pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Zootopian says...

As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it.

A perfect template for this art group to follow.
As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it. A perfect template for this art group to follow. Zootopian

12:41pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Jesus_02 says...

The Dancing Man Brewery is a Southampton Business and a good one at that…something that the council should rightfully support (regardless of party politics). Personally I don’t think that tourists would be loosing out in any shape or form.

What they are planning is something with a bit more imagination than a high street pub or a converted bank building and personally I’m really looking forward to it. The appeal of an open brewery is potentially massive and an extremely innovative idea.

The answer is clearly a permanent alternative venue that can be found for Elements Art.

Let’s be honest if this was a Heston Blumenthal restaurant there would be no arguments. Real Ale is a Hampshire success story lets embrace.
The Dancing Man Brewery is a Southampton Business and a good one at that…something that the council should rightfully support (regardless of party politics). Personally I don’t think that tourists would be loosing out in any shape or form. What they are planning is something with a bit more imagination than a high street pub or a converted bank building and personally I’m really looking forward to it. The appeal of an open brewery is potentially massive and an extremely innovative idea. The answer is clearly a permanent alternative venue that can be found for Elements Art. Let’s be honest if this was a Heston Blumenthal restaurant there would be no arguments. Real Ale is a Hampshire success story lets embrace. Jesus_02

12:42pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Zootopian wrote:
As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it.

A perfect template for this art group to follow.
And will this dance studio be forced to move to an emprty shop in St Mary's should a brewary come along and want to open another Oxford Street bar?

The point I'm making is the Wool House is an historic building and part of the city's rich history. The building should be used and celebrated by the city rather than a community group being sold out to a private investor.
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it. A perfect template for this art group to follow.[/p][/quote]And will this dance studio be forced to move to an emprty shop in St Mary's should a brewary come along and want to open another Oxford Street bar? The point I'm making is the Wool House is an historic building and part of the city's rich history. The building should be used and celebrated by the city rather than a community group being sold out to a private investor. sotonboy84

12:47pm Tue 17 Dec 13

oursin says...

Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have.

For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there.

Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money.

What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness!
Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours?

If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city.

Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.
If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city.

Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full.

Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this.

I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating.
The wool house project was open friday to monday, so was open over the weekend. Latest figures show 12000 visitors over 5 months. The project paid full commercial rates, and all maintenance costs and utility bills. With a proper tenure the project would be able to apply for historic building maintenance funding, arts council funding etc. The new cultural quarter is not being built for use of community arts groups, it a commercial development.
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have. For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there. Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money. What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness![/p][/quote]Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours? If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city. Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.[/p][/quote]If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city. Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full. Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this. I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating.[/p][/quote]The wool house project was open friday to monday, so was open over the weekend. Latest figures show 12000 visitors over 5 months. The project paid full commercial rates, and all maintenance costs and utility bills. With a proper tenure the project would be able to apply for historic building maintenance funding, arts council funding etc. The new cultural quarter is not being built for use of community arts groups, it a commercial development. oursin

12:48pm Tue 17 Dec 13

FoysCornerBoy says...

Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have.

For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there.

Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money.

What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness!
Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours?

If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city.

Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.
If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city.

Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full.

Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this.

I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating.
I couldn't agree more. If this venue was being handed over to Wetherspoons or Yates I would understand the art community's concern. However the Platform Tavern people have been to the fore of promoting live entertainment in this part of town and I really like the micro brewery idea.

After a long period in the doldrums Southampton's community art scene is now beginning to look up - in a very difficult financial climate. I might have hoped that energies would be better spent in taking advantage of what's potentially or actually on offer rather than spearhead a tedious anti-Council campaign for what I suspect are dubious political ends.
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have. For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there. Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money. What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness![/p][/quote]Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours? If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city. Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.[/p][/quote]If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city. Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full. Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this. I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating.[/p][/quote]I couldn't agree more. If this venue was being handed over to Wetherspoons or Yates I would understand the art community's concern. However the Platform Tavern people have been to the fore of promoting live entertainment in this part of town and I really like the micro brewery idea. After a long period in the doldrums Southampton's community art scene is now beginning to look up - in a very difficult financial climate. I might have hoped that energies would be better spent in taking advantage of what's potentially or actually on offer rather than spearhead a tedious anti-Council campaign for what I suspect are dubious political ends. FoysCornerBoy

12:49pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Zootopian says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it.

A perfect template for this art group to follow.
And will this dance studio be forced to move to an emprty shop in St Mary's should a brewary come along and want to open another Oxford Street bar?

The point I'm making is the Wool House is an historic building and part of the city's rich history. The building should be used and celebrated by the city rather than a community group being sold out to a private investor.
Well that's something for the owner of the building to decide - as far as I know, the building is privately owned. As far as I know, the studio actually pays its way now, though I could be wrong.

Element Art can find another venue in the city, be it council or privately owned.
Why do they deserve free rent in one of the city's most expensive-to-maintai
n buildings?
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it. A perfect template for this art group to follow.[/p][/quote]And will this dance studio be forced to move to an emprty shop in St Mary's should a brewary come along and want to open another Oxford Street bar? The point I'm making is the Wool House is an historic building and part of the city's rich history. The building should be used and celebrated by the city rather than a community group being sold out to a private investor.[/p][/quote]Well that's something for the owner of the building to decide - as far as I know, the building is privately owned. As far as I know, the studio actually pays its way now, though I could be wrong. Element Art can find another venue in the city, be it council or privately owned. Why do they deserve free rent in one of the city's most expensive-to-maintai n buildings? Zootopian

12:58pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Zootopian says...

oursin wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have.

For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there.

Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money.

What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness!
Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours?

If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city.

Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.
If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city.

Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full.

Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this.

I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating.
The wool house project was open friday to monday, so was open over the weekend. Latest figures show 12000 visitors over 5 months. The project paid full commercial rates, and all maintenance costs and utility bills. With a proper tenure the project would be able to apply for historic building maintenance funding, arts council funding etc. The new cultural quarter is not being built for use of community arts groups, it a commercial development.
Then why didn't they bid to take over the building? According to the previous story (the link is in the story) the only bidders were Dancing Man and an Indian restaurant.

If the Arts group paid full commercial rates and all associated costs, why didn't they bid to continue doing so?
[quote][p][bold]oursin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: An arts centre open 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday (according to the link above) is hardly mass appeal. Bearing in mind it needed council generosity to survive, it should at least be open when at a time when most of the city's rate payers can visit and see the exhibitions they have. For example, the people behind the Bargate art gallery make sure it is at least open at weekends - when people can actually go and see what's in there. Art is important but if you're going to demand hand outs in the shape of a free venue, at least make sure you are giving the public (who are funding you) value for money. What makes me laugh is the arts group claiming that a pub/brewery is only of interest to a 'small' number of people. Talk about a lack of self awareness![/p][/quote]Give them a break, the group is offering something to the community so should get help from the council. How else are they ever going to grow into something bigger so they can support themselves financially and open for longer hours? If you want to question immoral council community spending then take a look at the Medina Mosque in St Mary's. The land it's built on was sold by the council for 50% of its market value and the mosque is of limited appeal as it was built for the minority Muslim community and not the entire community of the city. Yes, pubs are of limited appeal – they appeal to adults that want to drink alcohol compared with a community space that can be used by anybody regardless of age. I regularly use pubs myself but as there's so many to choose from I'd much rather see something created that the city doesn't have an endless list of.[/p][/quote]If they need to grow and garner more support, they can do so in any number of spaces in the city. Why does it have to be this building, which after all, requires a great expense in upkeep, compared to say, a empty shop in St. Mary's or a church hall? The council own a number of commercial buildings across the city - Elements could easily move into one of them - as they're not all full. Let's not forget, the council (and therefore the city) is currently building a huge arts centre less than a mile away from the Wool House, at a cost of around £15m or so, especially for groups such as this. I assure you, more people will use the Wool House when Dancing Man take over than did when Elements Art were in there - and that makes complaints about 'limited appeal' meaningless and self defeating.[/p][/quote]The wool house project was open friday to monday, so was open over the weekend. Latest figures show 12000 visitors over 5 months. The project paid full commercial rates, and all maintenance costs and utility bills. With a proper tenure the project would be able to apply for historic building maintenance funding, arts council funding etc. The new cultural quarter is not being built for use of community arts groups, it a commercial development.[/p][/quote]Then why didn't they bid to take over the building? According to the previous story (the link is in the story) the only bidders were Dancing Man and an Indian restaurant. If the Arts group paid full commercial rates and all associated costs, why didn't they bid to continue doing so? Zootopian

1:01pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

A Tory council for 4 years yet Lone Ranger says the Tories were running it for 8 years?
Yes the Tory council suggested making this into a pub but maybe a pub with tourism office in it as well might be a good solution?
weren't this group part of the Art & Cultural Quarter? build less flats & let them take over space in that sector?
A Tory council for 4 years yet Lone Ranger says the Tories were running it for 8 years? Yes the Tory council suggested making this into a pub but maybe a pub with tourism office in it as well might be a good solution? weren't this group part of the Art & Cultural Quarter? build less flats & let them take over space in that sector? loosehead

1:05pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it.

A perfect template for this art group to follow.
And will this dance studio be forced to move to an emprty shop in St Mary's should a brewary come along and want to open another Oxford Street bar?

The point I'm making is the Wool House is an historic building and part of the city's rich history. The building should be used and celebrated by the city rather than a community group being sold out to a private investor.
Well that's something for the owner of the building to decide - as far as I know, the building is privately owned. As far as I know, the studio actually pays its way now, though I could be wrong.

Element Art can find another venue in the city, be it council or privately owned.
Why do they deserve free rent in one of the city's most expensive-to-maintai

n buildings?
As a community project that fund their own way, why should they not benefit from 'free' rent? After all, it's not free when the building belongs to the community that is using it.

Why can't the brewery find another building in the city – one that is privately owned so they can do as they wish between themselves and the owner? The Wool House is one of the city's asset and handing it over to a brewery is just guaranteeing that it will never come back into use as a community space, museum, gallery or whatever else would benefit the community and will just ensure access will be lost forever.

I have no interest in the brewery and nothing against them but this is a wrong choice of building as it will be a loss to the city. It's short term vision for short term gain and the winners here are not the residents of the city.
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: As an aside, in the old Royal Mail House on Terminus Terrace, an empty office was turned into a dance studio, which always looks busy when I go past it. A perfect template for this art group to follow.[/p][/quote]And will this dance studio be forced to move to an emprty shop in St Mary's should a brewary come along and want to open another Oxford Street bar? The point I'm making is the Wool House is an historic building and part of the city's rich history. The building should be used and celebrated by the city rather than a community group being sold out to a private investor.[/p][/quote]Well that's something for the owner of the building to decide - as far as I know, the building is privately owned. As far as I know, the studio actually pays its way now, though I could be wrong. Element Art can find another venue in the city, be it council or privately owned. Why do they deserve free rent in one of the city's most expensive-to-maintai n buildings?[/p][/quote]As a community project that fund their own way, why should they not benefit from 'free' rent? After all, it's not free when the building belongs to the community that is using it. Why can't the brewery find another building in the city – one that is privately owned so they can do as they wish between themselves and the owner? The Wool House is one of the city's asset and handing it over to a brewery is just guaranteeing that it will never come back into use as a community space, museum, gallery or whatever else would benefit the community and will just ensure access will be lost forever. I have no interest in the brewery and nothing against them but this is a wrong choice of building as it will be a loss to the city. It's short term vision for short term gain and the winners here are not the residents of the city. sotonboy84

1:14pm Tue 17 Dec 13

southy says...

Just an Idea, why not have a 15th century type bar, with entertainment the two could share the building in a form
Just an Idea, why not have a 15th century type bar, with entertainment the two could share the building in a form southy

1:15pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Zootopian says...

Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's. Zootopian

1:27pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll… sotonboy84

1:39pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
Just an Idea, why not have a 15th century type bar, with entertainment the two could share the building in a form
Indeed, and a bad one at that.

It would not be sustainable, but then that's hardly surprising considering your record.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Just an Idea, why not have a 15th century type bar, with entertainment the two could share the building in a form[/p][/quote]Indeed, and a bad one at that. It would not be sustainable, but then that's hardly surprising considering your record. Shoong

1:45pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN Lone Ranger.

1:51pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Sebastian Rutter says...

The Bargate is an 'art space'; I thought Gods House Tower was being turned into an 'art space'; as many people have commented, there's a whole new art complex being built in Above Bar.

It's great that people want to be creative and bring life to old buildings, but I think we're well catered for in the 'art space' department. I expect it would be easier for Element Arts to relocate to one of the many empty buildings in the city centre than it would be for the brewery to go back to the drawing board.

PS - This Brian Rowlands character needs to learn some manners. He says “The area does not need another ale swilling venue ..."

Well Brian, you might like to read the proposals from the Dancing Man brewery on their blog: "our plan is to house a 10 BBL brewery and brewery tap style bar on the ground floor, and a restaurant/ function / live music, area on the 1st floor. The whole modus operandi of this wild adventure is to expand and improve our range of ales (cask, keg & bottle) & serve hand prepared, locally sourced food in a spectacular historic building."

Do you think Southampton is overrun with establishments like this Brian? It's lovely that the council has been giving you a nice old building rent-free for you to do your papier mache sculptures, but please don't pretend that you are representing the citizenry of Southampton when you do so.
The Bargate is an 'art space'; I thought Gods House Tower was being turned into an 'art space'; as many people have commented, there's a whole new art complex being built in Above Bar. It's great that people want to be creative and bring life to old buildings, but I think we're well catered for in the 'art space' department. I expect it would be easier for Element Arts to relocate to one of the many empty buildings in the city centre than it would be for the brewery to go back to the drawing board. PS - This Brian Rowlands character needs to learn some manners. He says “The area does not need another ale swilling venue ..." Well Brian, you might like to read the proposals from the Dancing Man brewery on their blog: "our plan is to house a 10 BBL brewery and brewery tap style bar on the ground floor, and a restaurant/ function / live music, area on the 1st floor. The whole modus operandi of this wild adventure is to expand and improve our range of ales (cask, keg & bottle) & serve hand prepared, locally sourced food in a spectacular historic building." Do you think Southampton is overrun with establishments like this Brian? It's lovely that the council has been giving you a nice old building rent-free for you to do your papier mache sculptures, but please don't pretend that you are representing the citizenry of Southampton when you do so. Sebastian Rutter

2:04pm Tue 17 Dec 13

PeoplesChoice82 says...

Art is for idiots, boozings for Lads! Get the pub open and lets get schteaaammbooatteedd
!! Should have grown out of painting at 10 years old!!
Art is for idiots, boozings for Lads! Get the pub open and lets get schteaaammbooatteedd !! Should have grown out of painting at 10 years old!! PeoplesChoice82

2:35pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.
Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will. Stephen J

2:44pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Zootopian says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here. Zootopian

2:51pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It is amazing that certain Tory supporters crave and preach Democracy .. ..... .......... But only if its in their favour
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It is amazing that certain Tory supporters crave and preach Democracy .. ..... .......... But only if its in their favour Lone Ranger.

3:00pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me. sotonboy84

3:02pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.
With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again?
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.[/p][/quote]With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again? sotonboy84

3:11pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town. sotonboy84

3:20pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.
With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again?
I am able to tell the difference between the issues surrounding the conservation of archaeological remains and those surrounding the reuse of an historic building.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.[/p][/quote]With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again?[/p][/quote]I am able to tell the difference between the issues surrounding the conservation of archaeological remains and those surrounding the reuse of an historic building. Stephen J

3:24pm Tue 17 Dec 13

SOULJACKER says...

A pub, that's outrageous.....Surel
y we need another Macdonalds joint?
A pub, that's outrageous.....Surel y we need another Macdonalds joint? SOULJACKER

3:33pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas. Stephen J

3:34pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.
With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again?
I am able to tell the difference between the issues surrounding the conservation of archaeological remains and those surrounding the reuse of an historic building.
My point was that as the Mary Rose was a ship that sailed, with your theory, should we not get this sailing again? After all, you say that the Wool House was a working building so a pub in your opinion is more fitting that a community use.

My argument is that the city loses an asset that could be used for many things from community spaces to a museum or a gallery just as examples and it loses this for the sake of a private brewery opening a pub.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.[/p][/quote]With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again?[/p][/quote]I am able to tell the difference between the issues surrounding the conservation of archaeological remains and those surrounding the reuse of an historic building.[/p][/quote]My point was that as the Mary Rose was a ship that sailed, with your theory, should we not get this sailing again? After all, you say that the Wool House was a working building so a pub in your opinion is more fitting that a community use. My argument is that the city loses an asset that could be used for many things from community spaces to a museum or a gallery just as examples and it loses this for the sake of a private brewery opening a pub. sotonboy84

3:45pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.
Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars.

The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.[/p][/quote]Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars. The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space. sotonboy84

4:11pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.
Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars.

The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.
You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city.

Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that.

Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.[/p][/quote]Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars. The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.[/p][/quote]You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city. Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that. Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it. Stephen J

4:37pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.
Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars.

The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.
You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city.

Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that.

Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.
It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market.

Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city.

My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.[/p][/quote]Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars. The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.[/p][/quote]You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city. Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that. Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.[/p][/quote]It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market. Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city. My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history. sotonboy84

4:54pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonmusical says...

I was under the impression that it was only ever meant to be used by Element Arts while the place was empty, and that Element Arts aim was to make use of un-used buildings for community/art space? Understandably they'll want to keep it because having such a wonderful famous building has been a luxury given to them to use for this time that artists don't often get (if they'd given it to me to live in, I wouldn't want to leave either!)

Any one that knows the platform tavern knows that they, as a local independent business have a fantastic reputation locally in supporting the local creative scene with live music, as well as being a local employer and preserving local history (oh and serving their own real ale).

The Woolhouse building will need maintenance which I imagine will be rather expensive to keep it running - so surely it will need to be run for financial reasons by a commercial venture - and fortunately a local independent business have stepped forward, and the council haven't allowed for it to become another soulless weatherspoons/costa/ chain.

So - artists, rather than campaigning against The Platform Tavern, why not support them on the basis that they're a very good respectable independent, art and history loving pub, respond to their suggestion of having your local art exhibited there while they run it, and enjoy some live music and local real ale while you're at it - everyone's a winner!! And by supporting each other you'll be making sure it never goes unused, or taken over by a chain (boo!).

It's not the end of the Arts Community - there are LOADS of disused buildings about that need your love, as well as the new build going on in the 'Arts Quarter' and great existing community art places such as the Art House.

Just doesn't really make sense artists campaigning against people that have done so much to support the local creative scene!
I was under the impression that it was only ever meant to be used by Element Arts while the place was empty, and that Element Arts aim was to make use of un-used buildings for community/art space? Understandably they'll want to keep it because having such a wonderful famous building has been a luxury given to them to use for this time that artists don't often get (if they'd given it to me to live in, I wouldn't want to leave either!) Any one that knows the platform tavern knows that they, as a local independent business have a fantastic reputation locally in supporting the local creative scene with live music, as well as being a local employer and preserving local history (oh and serving their own real ale). The Woolhouse building will need maintenance which I imagine will be rather expensive to keep it running - so surely it will need to be run for financial reasons by a commercial venture - and fortunately a local independent business have stepped forward, and the council haven't allowed for it to become another soulless weatherspoons/costa/ chain. So - artists, rather than campaigning against The Platform Tavern, why not support them on the basis that they're a very good respectable independent, art and history loving pub, respond to their suggestion of having your local art exhibited there while they run it, and enjoy some live music and local real ale while you're at it - everyone's a winner!! And by supporting each other you'll be making sure it never goes unused, or taken over by a chain (boo!). It's not the end of the Arts Community - there are LOADS of disused buildings about that need your love, as well as the new build going on in the 'Arts Quarter' and great existing community art places such as the Art House. Just doesn't really make sense artists campaigning against people that have done so much to support the local creative scene! sotonmusical

4:56pm Tue 17 Dec 13

bigfella777 says...

There is no doubt that artists are basically all shot away and they find it hard to understand why people find masticated chewing gum spat onto a sheet of card uninteresting.
But at the same time the council are quite happy to spend up to £100,000 a year of our money on teaching children from ethnic minorities their mother languages.
In other words they are not teaching them English but rather Afghani, Arabic, Bengali, Chinese, Greek, Gujarati, Hindi, Italian, Malay, Malayalam, Nepali, Persian, Polish, Punjabi, Somali and Urdu as they believe it is their heritage.
I know what I would rather they spend money on.
There is no doubt that artists are basically all shot away and they find it hard to understand why people find masticated chewing gum spat onto a sheet of card uninteresting. But at the same time the council are quite happy to spend up to £100,000 a year of our money on teaching children from ethnic minorities their mother languages. In other words they are not teaching them English but rather Afghani, Arabic, Bengali, Chinese, Greek, Gujarati, Hindi, Italian, Malay, Malayalam, Nepali, Persian, Polish, Punjabi, Somali and Urdu as they believe it is their heritage. I know what I would rather they spend money on. bigfella777

5:02pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.
Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars.

The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.
You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city.

Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that.

Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.
It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market.

Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city.

My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history.
Immoral? Contact the relevant council department and ask to see any impact assessment documentation that informed the decision. If you think there's been a failure of due process, take it further.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.[/p][/quote]Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars. The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.[/p][/quote]You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city. Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that. Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.[/p][/quote]It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market. Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city. My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history.[/p][/quote]Immoral? Contact the relevant council department and ask to see any impact assessment documentation that informed the decision. If you think there's been a failure of due process, take it further. Stephen J

5:12pm Tue 17 Dec 13

stdenizen says...

A few points:
- The Bargate hasn't been open as an Art Space for a year now - correct me if I'm wrong, but all google references are out of date.
- God's House Tower is still looking very dark.
- The Wool House was open weekdays and weekends, hosting many diverse events at all times of day, accessible to all.
- It was a magnet for the passing trade of the Cruise liners, visitors and residents alike.
- Element Arts as I understand it was a non-profit-making voluntary set-up, in no position to tender bids against the other contenders - but working for and representing the actual musicians, artists, dancers, actors, children's groups and cultural diversity of our city, while respecting the heritage and community ownership of this amazing building. They promoted theatre, dance and cinema and hosted some of the city's best live bands.
- Whatever happens next to the Wool House or its latest custodians Element Arts, appreciation should be shown for their dedication to turning this neglected building into a vibrant and bustling hub of local culture and community for a golden era in its history.
- The Wool House should be allowed to continue as a Public Space and not given over to a Private Commercial (Misad)venture.
A few points: - The Bargate hasn't been open as an Art Space for a year now - correct me if I'm wrong, but all google references are out of date. - God's House Tower is still looking very dark. - The Wool House was open weekdays and weekends, hosting many diverse events at all times of day, accessible to all. - It was a magnet for the passing trade of the Cruise liners, visitors and residents alike. - Element Arts as I understand it was a non-profit-making voluntary set-up, in no position to tender bids against the other contenders - but working for and representing the actual musicians, artists, dancers, actors, children's groups and cultural diversity of our city, while respecting the heritage and community ownership of this amazing building. They promoted theatre, dance and cinema and hosted some of the city's best live bands. - Whatever happens next to the Wool House or its latest custodians Element Arts, appreciation should be shown for their dedication to turning this neglected building into a vibrant and bustling hub of local culture and community for a golden era in its history. - The Wool House should be allowed to continue as a Public Space and not given over to a Private Commercial (Misad)venture. stdenizen

5:22pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........ Lone Ranger.

5:26pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.
With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again?
I am able to tell the difference between the issues surrounding the conservation of archaeological remains and those surrounding the reuse of an historic building.
My point was that as the Mary Rose was a ship that sailed, with your theory, should we not get this sailing again? After all, you say that the Wool House was a working building so a pub in your opinion is more fitting that a community use.

My argument is that the city loses an asset that could be used for many things from community spaces to a museum or a gallery just as examples and it loses this for the sake of a private brewery opening a pub.
What a pity that you never had the b@lls to mention it when the Tories decided to loose it as an asset .... Hypocrite comes to mind.
.
Ego dent number 4
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: Since the late '60s the Wool House been a museum and until recently an art venue. This isn't what this old building is all about. It's was a bustling, working building, a warehouse, a prison, a factory and it needs to be brought back to life. Get the brewery in there, get people in there, get the live bands in there! If that old building had a soul, I think it would love it every bit as much as the customers will.[/p][/quote]With that theory, maybe we should get the Mary Rose sailing again?[/p][/quote]I am able to tell the difference between the issues surrounding the conservation of archaeological remains and those surrounding the reuse of an historic building.[/p][/quote]My point was that as the Mary Rose was a ship that sailed, with your theory, should we not get this sailing again? After all, you say that the Wool House was a working building so a pub in your opinion is more fitting that a community use. My argument is that the city loses an asset that could be used for many things from community spaces to a museum or a gallery just as examples and it loses this for the sake of a private brewery opening a pub.[/p][/quote]What a pity that you never had the b@lls to mention it when the Tories decided to loose it as an asset .... Hypocrite comes to mind. . Ego dent number 4 Lone Ranger.

5:39pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee loosehead

5:42pm Tue 17 Dec 13

stdenizen says...

Plus: the poll is incorrectly worded -
The second option should read:-
"A cultural space for our Southampton community and visitors".

(Element Art was not campaigning on the day, the article's title is inaccurate, it was apparently "Wool House For The Community", a varied group of people with no vested interests).
Plus: the poll is incorrectly worded - The second option should read:- "A cultural space for our Southampton community and visitors". (Element Art was not campaigning on the day, the article's title is inaccurate, it was apparently "Wool House For The Community", a varied group of people with no vested interests). stdenizen

5:46pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

isn't the plan for a building not far from this one an historic building going to be a Lap Dancing club?
Did Labour approve it?
Maybe Lone Ranger would like to see the Wool House being used for that form of art & see a lap dancing club there?
I would love to see an historic building being used sympathetically by maybe trying to make the brewery/pub/restaura
nt in keeping with the time of this building was built.
An historic re-enactment being run as a business employing people & attracting tourists seeing "OLDE SOUTHAMPTON" with maybe a small Tourists Information section?
It might be plastic but would be better than a lap dancing club wouldn't it?
isn't the plan for a building not far from this one an historic building going to be a Lap Dancing club? Did Labour approve it? Maybe Lone Ranger would like to see the Wool House being used for that form of art & see a lap dancing club there? I would love to see an historic building being used sympathetically by maybe trying to make the brewery/pub/restaura nt in keeping with the time of this building was built. An historic re-enactment being run as a business employing people & attracting tourists seeing "OLDE SOUTHAMPTON" with maybe a small Tourists Information section? It might be plastic but would be better than a lap dancing club wouldn't it? loosehead

6:17pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.
Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars.

The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.
You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city.

Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that.

Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.
It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market.

Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city.

My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history.
Immoral? Contact the relevant council department and ask to see any impact assessment documentation that informed the decision. If you think there's been a failure of due process, take it further.
Yes, immoral. Just because an application to turn the building into a pub may tick planning guidelines does not make it any less immoral. The building belongs to the city & should be used to its full potential to be used by the city & its visitors & not turned into yet another watering hole.

May I remind you that Dock Gates 10 were almost demolished because ABP put in a planning application to demolish them & the application was authorised by the council because it met all planning criteria. It wasn't until English Heritage stepped in & gave them a Grade II listing that they're still standing.

See, an example of how planning guidelines cannot be used as a blanket approach to achieve watertight, 'moral' applications.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.[/p][/quote]Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars. The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.[/p][/quote]You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city. Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that. Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.[/p][/quote]It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market. Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city. My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history.[/p][/quote]Immoral? Contact the relevant council department and ask to see any impact assessment documentation that informed the decision. If you think there's been a failure of due process, take it further.[/p][/quote]Yes, immoral. Just because an application to turn the building into a pub may tick planning guidelines does not make it any less immoral. The building belongs to the city & should be used to its full potential to be used by the city & its visitors & not turned into yet another watering hole. May I remind you that Dock Gates 10 were almost demolished because ABP put in a planning application to demolish them & the application was authorised by the council because it met all planning criteria. It wasn't until English Heritage stepped in & gave them a Grade II listing that they're still standing. See, an example of how planning guidelines cannot be used as a blanket approach to achieve watertight, 'moral' applications. sotonboy84

6:36pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person. Lone Ranger.

6:46pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind... sotonboy84

6:55pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing.
.
But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you.
.
What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance.
.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind...[/p][/quote]........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing. . But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you. . What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance. . Lone Ranger.

7:13pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing.
.
But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you.
.
What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance.
.
Psychic as well as delusional I see. ..

I'm not a poor loser as I haven't lost anything. I'm not the one with spite & venom running through all my posts but if you hate the world then that's fine by me.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind...[/p][/quote]........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing. . But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you. . What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance. .[/p][/quote]Psychic as well as delusional I see. .. I'm not a poor loser as I haven't lost anything. I'm not the one with spite & venom running through all my posts but if you hate the world then that's fine by me. sotonboy84

7:19pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Georgethepie says...

I'm shocked it's not being turned into a Tesco express. Councils seem to love them.....
I'm shocked it's not being turned into a Tesco express. Councils seem to love them..... Georgethepie

7:22pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing.
.
But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you.
.
What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance.
.
Psychic as well as delusional I see. ..

I'm not a poor loser as I haven't lost anything. I'm not the one with spite & venom running through all my posts but if you hate the world then that's fine by me.
Psychic yes ...... delusional no .....
.
There just has to come a time, on some subjects, that you have to accept that someone else is right ....... and you on this occasion is wrong.
.
But hey ...... i am sure that you will come back big and strong on another topic on another day.
.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind...[/p][/quote]........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing. . But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you. . What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance. .[/p][/quote]Psychic as well as delusional I see. .. I'm not a poor loser as I haven't lost anything. I'm not the one with spite & venom running through all my posts but if you hate the world then that's fine by me.[/p][/quote]Psychic yes ...... delusional no ..... . There just has to come a time, on some subjects, that you have to accept that someone else is right ....... and you on this occasion is wrong. . But hey ...... i am sure that you will come back big and strong on another topic on another day. . Lone Ranger.

8:27pm Tue 17 Dec 13

DavidCurtis says...

My concerns are twofold - firstly that such a key grade1 listed historic building , owned by us the people of Southampton, could be sold off on a long term lease for use as a pub. The Wool House used to be an emblem of Southampton City, as the Bargate is now, and such a proposal would seem to be on a par with council suggestions reported in the Echo in 2009 to turn the Bargate into a Starbucks. We already have enough pubs in Southampton, many of them closing. Only today, I walked passed Holy Rood & noticed the neighbouring historic building recently the Ferryman & Firkin , boarded up and empty- this within 3 minutes walk of the Wool House. In this year when Southampton has been billed as the fourth crappest town in Britain, for its lack of culture and unsympathetic town-planning, the time has come to value and treasure such architectural heritage - not to sell off the lease of The Wool House for use as a pub at a time when so many are already closing. Much better to keep it as community arts space, freely open to all.

My second concern is about the lack of sufficient support for the arts within Southampton. We have lost The Gantry, we have recently lost the excellent photography workshop at Mount Pleasant which was doing such good work on a shoestring budget, and the much-vaunted proposals for a new arts space on the old Tyrell & Greens site have so far come to nothing. When a group of people showed the inspiring inititiative to set up and run The Wool House Project as community arts space, gallery, workshop space, tourist attraction, and venue for music & dance - run by volunteers and not costing the council a penny - surely this demands positive encouragement. They have been freely providing a service which many councils would be paying to provide . The Wool House has made the ideal venue for this project - the acoustics on the first floor are superb for music, the sense of light and space and history give the perfect setting for visual arts, and the overall effect has been to show this wonderful building off in a better way than in its previous role as the maritime museum.

I know that many other people who have valued The Wool House Project , and the great efforts shown by Element Arts over the last few months, feel the same. A petition has been started to demonstrate this . This is a cause thoroughly worth supporting, and your interest and help will be much appreciated.
My concerns are twofold - firstly that such a key grade1 listed historic building , owned by us the people of Southampton, could be sold off on a long term lease for use as a pub. The Wool House used to be an emblem of Southampton City, as the Bargate is now, and such a proposal would seem to be on a par with council suggestions reported in the Echo in 2009 to turn the Bargate into a Starbucks. We already have enough pubs in Southampton, many of them closing. Only today, I walked passed Holy Rood & noticed the neighbouring historic building recently the Ferryman & Firkin , boarded up and empty- this within 3 minutes walk of the Wool House. In this year when Southampton has been billed as the fourth crappest town in Britain, for its lack of culture and unsympathetic town-planning, the time has come to value and treasure such architectural heritage - not to sell off the lease of The Wool House for use as a pub at a time when so many are already closing. Much better to keep it as community arts space, freely open to all. My second concern is about the lack of sufficient support for the arts within Southampton. We have lost The Gantry, we have recently lost the excellent photography workshop at Mount Pleasant which was doing such good work on a shoestring budget, and the much-vaunted proposals for a new arts space on the old Tyrell & Greens site have so far come to nothing. When a group of people showed the inspiring inititiative to set up and run The Wool House Project as community arts space, gallery, workshop space, tourist attraction, and venue for music & dance - run by volunteers and not costing the council a penny - surely this demands positive encouragement. They have been freely providing a service which many councils would be paying to provide . The Wool House has made the ideal venue for this project - the acoustics on the first floor are superb for music, the sense of light and space and history give the perfect setting for visual arts, and the overall effect has been to show this wonderful building off in a better way than in its previous role as the maritime museum. I know that many other people who have valued The Wool House Project , and the great efforts shown by Element Arts over the last few months, feel the same. A petition has been started to demonstrate this . This is a cause thoroughly worth supporting, and your interest and help will be much appreciated. DavidCurtis

8:30pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.
Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars.

The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.
You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city.

Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that.

Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.
It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market.

Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city.

My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history.
Immoral? Contact the relevant council department and ask to see any impact assessment documentation that informed the decision. If you think there's been a failure of due process, take it further.
Yes, immoral. Just because an application to turn the building into a pub may tick planning guidelines does not make it any less immoral. The building belongs to the city & should be used to its full potential to be used by the city & its visitors & not turned into yet another watering hole.

May I remind you that Dock Gates 10 were almost demolished because ABP put in a planning application to demolish them & the application was authorised by the council because it met all planning criteria. It wasn't until English Heritage stepped in & gave them a Grade II listing that they're still standing.

See, an example of how planning guidelines cannot be used as a blanket approach to achieve watertight, 'moral' applications.
But if, as you suggest, this proposal represents the removal of a public amenity, the council has to address the issue formally. If you feel that the needs of the community have not fully been taken into account, you have recourse. Planning is only part of the procedure. If I were you I would be wanting to see all the evidence relating to how the council intends to address the effects on the community of this loss of amenity, what methodology was used to gather that evidence, and most especially I would want to find out who was consulted, when, and how their views have been used to inform the decision.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]And EH will come back to you with quite a long list of bars that operate successfully within Grade 1 listed premises, previously of a different use, and many of which are, by their very nature, in 'historic' areas.[/p][/quote]Presumably you're referring to bars in historic buildings across the country. If so, this is irrelevant as a precedence is not set just because listed buildings may be used as bars. The Wool House is a historic example of a 14th century building hence it's listed status but more importantly to the city, it was monumental in the success of the city's wool trade and a monument to the city we see before us today. Handing it over to a private brewery would be a loss to the city that this building represents and a loss of a community space.[/p][/quote]You keep on about how it will be a "loss" to the city. Here's a dilemma for you. Recently I have been effectively excluded from visiting the Wool House as I have less than no interest in what's been happening in there. When it reopens, I and many others will be regular if not frequent visitors because we like what's planned. What do you think to us represents the better "community use"? One result of what's planned will be to effectively hand the Wool House back to the community, people like me, not take it away. I know you either can't or refuse to see that. Your Mary Rose argument is a red herring and you know it.[/p][/quote]It's not a dilemma at all because you've just built an argument around what YOU want and what suits YOU rather than seeing that a valuable building has more potential to be used for purposes that appeal to a broader audience of the city rather than those that want to go out for a drink. As a pub, what about those that don't drink alcohol for whatever reason be it religious or medical and those that cannot drink alcohol because they're not old enough? You're then left with a venue which has a limited market. Secondly, yes it is a loss. It's an historic building that amongst other things is a reminder of the success that created the city we see today and it should be available to the people of the city through some sort of community use which is a better use of the building rather than limiting it to the minority (in comparison to the population of the city) that will visit it as a pub. My argument isn't about what I want, it's about maximising a city asset and using it to its full potential. As I've said, I'm not against the concept of the pub as it makes no difference to me what a private brewery does but it's immoral for the council to pass this building over to the brewery to use with the loss of the building to the city. My Mary Rose comment was not an argument, a mere exaggeration to point out how flimsy your argument was that using the Wool House as a pub just because it had been a working building in its 700 year history.[/p][/quote]Immoral? Contact the relevant council department and ask to see any impact assessment documentation that informed the decision. If you think there's been a failure of due process, take it further.[/p][/quote]Yes, immoral. Just because an application to turn the building into a pub may tick planning guidelines does not make it any less immoral. The building belongs to the city & should be used to its full potential to be used by the city & its visitors & not turned into yet another watering hole. May I remind you that Dock Gates 10 were almost demolished because ABP put in a planning application to demolish them & the application was authorised by the council because it met all planning criteria. It wasn't until English Heritage stepped in & gave them a Grade II listing that they're still standing. See, an example of how planning guidelines cannot be used as a blanket approach to achieve watertight, 'moral' applications.[/p][/quote]But if, as you suggest, this proposal represents the removal of a public amenity, the council has to address the issue formally. If you feel that the needs of the community have not fully been taken into account, you have recourse. Planning is only part of the procedure. If I were you I would be wanting to see all the evidence relating to how the council intends to address the effects on the community of this loss of amenity, what methodology was used to gather that evidence, and most especially I would want to find out who was consulted, when, and how their views have been used to inform the decision. Stephen J

8:45pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse. Brusher Mills

8:53pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

DavidCurtis wrote:
My concerns are twofold - firstly that such a key grade1 listed historic building , owned by us the people of Southampton, could be sold off on a long term lease for use as a pub. The Wool House used to be an emblem of Southampton City, as the Bargate is now, and such a proposal would seem to be on a par with council suggestions reported in the Echo in 2009 to turn the Bargate into a Starbucks. We already have enough pubs in Southampton, many of them closing. Only today, I walked passed Holy Rood & noticed the neighbouring historic building recently the Ferryman & Firkin , boarded up and empty- this within 3 minutes walk of the Wool House. In this year when Southampton has been billed as the fourth crappest town in Britain, for its lack of culture and unsympathetic town-planning, the time has come to value and treasure such architectural heritage - not to sell off the lease of The Wool House for use as a pub at a time when so many are already closing. Much better to keep it as community arts space, freely open to all.

My second concern is about the lack of sufficient support for the arts within Southampton. We have lost The Gantry, we have recently lost the excellent photography workshop at Mount Pleasant which was doing such good work on a shoestring budget, and the much-vaunted proposals for a new arts space on the old Tyrell & Greens site have so far come to nothing. When a group of people showed the inspiring inititiative to set up and run The Wool House Project as community arts space, gallery, workshop space, tourist attraction, and venue for music & dance - run by volunteers and not costing the council a penny - surely this demands positive encouragement. They have been freely providing a service which many councils would be paying to provide . The Wool House has made the ideal venue for this project - the acoustics on the first floor are superb for music, the sense of light and space and history give the perfect setting for visual arts, and the overall effect has been to show this wonderful building off in a better way than in its previous role as the maritime museum.

I know that many other people who have valued The Wool House Project , and the great efforts shown by Element Arts over the last few months, feel the same. A petition has been started to demonstrate this . This is a cause thoroughly worth supporting, and your interest and help will be much appreciated.
1) Many pubs are indeed closing, but not the likes of the Platform Tavern, from which this new venture is being promoted. These people understand heritage and so does their target market, of which I am one very small part. We are not morons, and this will not become some tacky theme pub. When the Wool House reopens it will still be the delicate, layered, archaeological document it is now. Nothing that is being proposed will change that. It's a Grade 1 listed building, Scheduled Ancient Monument. It could not be more protected.

2) "...the much-vaunted proposals for a new arts space on the old Tyrell & Greens site have so far come to nothing." Are you serious? It's being built!

3) I agree. Community art, in all its forms, should be supported. See 2) above.
[quote][p][bold]DavidCurtis[/bold] wrote: My concerns are twofold - firstly that such a key grade1 listed historic building , owned by us the people of Southampton, could be sold off on a long term lease for use as a pub. The Wool House used to be an emblem of Southampton City, as the Bargate is now, and such a proposal would seem to be on a par with council suggestions reported in the Echo in 2009 to turn the Bargate into a Starbucks. We already have enough pubs in Southampton, many of them closing. Only today, I walked passed Holy Rood & noticed the neighbouring historic building recently the Ferryman & Firkin , boarded up and empty- this within 3 minutes walk of the Wool House. In this year when Southampton has been billed as the fourth crappest town in Britain, for its lack of culture and unsympathetic town-planning, the time has come to value and treasure such architectural heritage - not to sell off the lease of The Wool House for use as a pub at a time when so many are already closing. Much better to keep it as community arts space, freely open to all. My second concern is about the lack of sufficient support for the arts within Southampton. We have lost The Gantry, we have recently lost the excellent photography workshop at Mount Pleasant which was doing such good work on a shoestring budget, and the much-vaunted proposals for a new arts space on the old Tyrell & Greens site have so far come to nothing. When a group of people showed the inspiring inititiative to set up and run The Wool House Project as community arts space, gallery, workshop space, tourist attraction, and venue for music & dance - run by volunteers and not costing the council a penny - surely this demands positive encouragement. They have been freely providing a service which many councils would be paying to provide . The Wool House has made the ideal venue for this project - the acoustics on the first floor are superb for music, the sense of light and space and history give the perfect setting for visual arts, and the overall effect has been to show this wonderful building off in a better way than in its previous role as the maritime museum. I know that many other people who have valued The Wool House Project , and the great efforts shown by Element Arts over the last few months, feel the same. A petition has been started to demonstrate this . This is a cause thoroughly worth supporting, and your interest and help will be much appreciated.[/p][/quote]1) Many pubs are indeed closing, but not the likes of the Platform Tavern, from which this new venture is being promoted. These people understand heritage and so does their target market, of which I am one very small part. We are not morons, and this will not become some tacky theme pub. When the Wool House reopens it will still be the delicate, layered, archaeological document it is now. Nothing that is being proposed will change that. It's a Grade 1 listed building, Scheduled Ancient Monument. It could not be more protected. 2) "...the much-vaunted proposals for a new arts space on the old Tyrell & Greens site have so far come to nothing." Are you serious? It's being built! 3) I agree. Community art, in all its forms, should be supported. See 2) above. Stephen J

9:06pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
once again stop looking in the mirror when replying to posts as you seem to type down what you see in that mirror & not a proper response.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]once again stop looking in the mirror when replying to posts as you seem to type down what you see in that mirror & not a proper response. loosehead

9:14pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Under the Tory plan this building would stay Southampton councils property but a brewery would take out a tenure on it.
the Land & the building could never be owned by the brewery but a "lease" would be paid for for a set period after that period it would be up to the council if they still wanted the brewery as tenants.
the Brewery would be responsible for the buildings up keep so the council would keep an historic building not have to pay for it's upkeep & make some money out of it & would they get more business rates from this new business?
Is this not how Labour are doing it?
This is in reply to David Curtiss
Under the Tory plan this building would stay Southampton councils property but a brewery would take out a tenure on it. the Land & the building could never be owned by the brewery but a "lease" would be paid for for a set period after that period it would be up to the council if they still wanted the brewery as tenants. the Brewery would be responsible for the buildings up keep so the council would keep an historic building not have to pay for it's upkeep & make some money out of it & would they get more business rates from this new business? Is this not how Labour are doing it? This is in reply to David Curtiss loosehead

9:19pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing.
.
But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you.
.
What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance.
.
I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself.
you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you.
I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate?
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind...[/p][/quote]........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing. . But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you. . What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance. .[/p][/quote]I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself. you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you. I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate? loosehead

9:24pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Lone Ranger. says...

loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing.
.
But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you.
.
What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance.
.
I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself.
you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you.
I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate?
I suggest that you keep out of the pub as it gives you too much Dutch Courage .......
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind...[/p][/quote]........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing. . But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you. . What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance. .[/p][/quote]I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself. you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you. I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate?[/p][/quote]I suggest that you keep out of the pub as it gives you too much Dutch Courage ....... Lone Ranger.

9:40pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint. sotonboy84

9:41pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing.
.
But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you.
.
What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance.
.
I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself.
you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you.
I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate?
I suggest that you keep out of the pub as it gives you too much Dutch Courage .......
Haven't had a beer or touched alcohol since last New Years Eve,
Why do you think I need Dutch Courage? After all you wouldn't threaten me would you?
Tell you what you go & play with your dummy & leave us adults to debate this subject.
Just Remember councillor it was your Labour Council that caused this problem before attacking posters on here!
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind...[/p][/quote]........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing. . But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you. . What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance. .[/p][/quote]I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself. you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you. I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate?[/p][/quote]I suggest that you keep out of the pub as it gives you too much Dutch Courage .......[/p][/quote]Haven't had a beer or touched alcohol since last New Years Eve, Why do you think I need Dutch Courage? After all you wouldn't threaten me would you? Tell you what you go & play with your dummy & leave us adults to debate this subject. Just Remember councillor it was your Labour Council that caused this problem before attacking posters on here! loosehead

9:45pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
That's why I suggested putting a much needed tourist information section in the pub/wool house
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.[/p][/quote]That's why I suggested putting a much needed tourist information section in the pub/wool house loosehead

9:49pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
“I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.”

You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for.

Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling.
.
They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club.
.
It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention.

My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub .
.
Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant.
.
Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN
Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.
I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head.
.
You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it..
.
Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........
You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big?
I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee
Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth.
.
You are really a silly childish little person.
Those in glass houses springs to mind...
........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing.
.
But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you.
.
What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance.
.
I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself.
you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you.
I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate?
I suggest that you keep out of the pub as it gives you too much Dutch Courage .......
before you make such stupid comments like this I suggest you find out more about the person in question
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Ohhh ....... silly me ...... and i thought that we were posting about Southampton's Wool House becoming a pub . . Another Tory who seems to change the topic when the FACTS get in the way of his rather biased rant. . Sorry to dent your ego .... AGAIN[/p][/quote]Your drivel doesn't dent anything and you won't succeed in massaging your ego with me.[/p][/quote]I dont need to massage my ego anymore as it is .... as i prefer it being half the size of your head. . You can call it drivel ... and as a Tory you would ...... I prefer to call it the FACTS .... what a pity that you are not big enough and ( I assume ) man enough to accept it.. . Looks like your ego is dented for a third time ........[/p][/quote]You have a thing about the size of people why? are you such a pathetic example you can only attack posts to try to make yourself big? I thought for a minute I was the only one who took your vitriolic attacks but I was wrong it's any one who doesn't agree with you so once again the Hypocritical Lying Labour councillor is on the attack Whoooppeeeee[/p][/quote]Oh just a small tip for you ...... If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth. . You are really a silly childish little person.[/p][/quote]Those in glass houses springs to mind...[/p][/quote]........ And you also gave yourself a "Thumbs up" for your own post ...... Vanity is a wonderful thing. . But just like your loose mate .... you really are a poor loser you know. Yet you give it all the clever stuff but when proven wrong you really dont like it do you. . What is it about a Tory like you that feels you are so "right" all of the time. From an observerers point of view ( me on many occasions ) you really do cut a very arrogant stance. .[/p][/quote]I gave him the thumbs up so again your wrong, I now know why your to scared to print your real name, Unlike myself. you know with the way you rip into posters who can't agree with you because your so so wrong if they knew who you were it would only take one person saying enough's enough & knowing exactly where you were confronting you. I quite happily would stand & argue my case & if proven wrong I would apologise but I fear you wouldn't be able to & some poor citizen would get arrested for assault so why not crawl back into the hole you came from & let the rest of us debate?[/p][/quote]I suggest that you keep out of the pub as it gives you too much Dutch Courage .......[/p][/quote]before you make such stupid comments like this I suggest you find out more about the person in question loosehead

9:49pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.[/p][/quote]And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to? Stephen J

9:51pm Tue 17 Dec 13

stdenizen says...

stdenizen wrote:
Plus: the poll is incorrectly worded -
The second option should read:-
"A cultural space for our Southampton community and visitors".

(Element Art was not campaigning on the day, the article's title is inaccurate, it was apparently "Wool House For The Community", a varied group of people with no vested interests).
Thanks for changing the title! :D
[quote][p][bold]stdenizen[/bold] wrote: Plus: the poll is incorrectly worded - The second option should read:- "A cultural space for our Southampton community and visitors". (Element Art was not campaigning on the day, the article's title is inaccurate, it was apparently "Wool House For The Community", a varied group of people with no vested interests).[/p][/quote]Thanks for changing the title! :D stdenizen

10:13pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonmusical says...

Negativity begets Negativity
.... Positivity begets Positivity

In other words -

Why don't the Artists here talk to the Platform Tavern, instead of doing negative rants and campaigns. The Platform Tavern are a friendly bunch and don't bite. They're hugely in favour of local community and arts, want your feedback and ideas, and have been one of Southampton's biggest supporters and assets to the music and musicians. They also actively believe in the importance of preserving local history.

... and from what I've heard the Platform Tavern even contacted Element Arts to see how they could support each other, and had no response.

If people acted positively this could become an amazing community arts and music venue - with the added advantage of getting a decent bite to eat and pint of LOCAL ale - fantastic! ... and even better that they'll be contributing to the buildings maintenance and EMPLOYING PEOPLE!!!

The Platform Tavern isn't just any pub - it's one of Southampton's best, most respectful and respected independent pubs, a good employer, not a soulless chain just after your money. It's not a rowdy football supporters type pub - it's a meeting place for our community - AND a supporter of the local arts community.

Artists - why not try talking instead of running negative campaigns against people that are standing for the same things as you (but have the advantage of being able to pay their way and employ people!). It's far more positive and productive for EVERYONE involved! They might even buy some of your art to decorate the place as well as have exhibitions etc! There are more important things you could be campaigning against - capitalist greed / tesco takeover, polluting companies, the other empty/unused buildings, shops selling cosmetics tested on animals, racism... Think about it - you protest against a local independent business that loves live music, art, history, good food, ale, community and fair employment.

It's not just any pub, or 'ale swilling venue'!





...
Negativity begets Negativity .... Positivity begets Positivity In other words - Why don't the Artists here talk to the Platform Tavern, instead of doing negative rants and campaigns. The Platform Tavern are a friendly bunch and don't bite. They're hugely in favour of local community and arts, want your feedback and ideas, and have been one of Southampton's biggest supporters and assets to the music and musicians. They also actively believe in the importance of preserving local history. ... and from what I've heard the Platform Tavern even contacted Element Arts to see how they could support each other, and had no response. If people acted positively this could become an amazing community arts and music venue - with the added advantage of getting a decent bite to eat and pint of LOCAL ale - fantastic! ... and even better that they'll be contributing to the buildings maintenance and EMPLOYING PEOPLE!!! The Platform Tavern isn't just any pub - it's one of Southampton's best, most respectful and respected independent pubs, a good employer, not a soulless chain just after your money. It's not a rowdy football supporters type pub - it's a meeting place for our community - AND a supporter of the local arts community. Artists - why not try talking instead of running negative campaigns against people that are standing for the same things as you (but have the advantage of being able to pay their way and employ people!). It's far more positive and productive for EVERYONE involved! They might even buy some of your art to decorate the place as well as have exhibitions etc! There are more important things you could be campaigning against - capitalist greed / tesco takeover, polluting companies, the other empty/unused buildings, shops selling cosmetics tested on animals, racism... Think about it - you protest against a local independent business that loves live music, art, history, good food, ale, community and fair employment. It's not just any pub, or 'ale swilling venue'! ... sotonmusical

10:13pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
You always seem to ignore the restaurant and live music venue part, it is more than just a pub. Also the platform tavern looks fine, hardly a run diwn place.

Venues need to raise capital, this building needs money spent on its upkeep if the business looks after the building and saves the tax payer money then great. At the sane time the building is still acess able to all, families can go eat and maybe as you can at the platform have breakfast in great historic surroundings that will be appreciated.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.[/p][/quote]You always seem to ignore the restaurant and live music venue part, it is more than just a pub. Also the platform tavern looks fine, hardly a run diwn place. Venues need to raise capital, this building needs money spent on its upkeep if the business looks after the building and saves the tax payer money then great. At the sane time the building is still acess able to all, families can go eat and maybe as you can at the platform have breakfast in great historic surroundings that will be appreciated. Brusher Mills

10:22pm Tue 17 Dec 13

agedparent says...

If the Wool House is looked after as well as they look after The Platform Tavern then I'm in favour of it becoming a pub & restaurant..
If the Wool House is looked after as well as they look after The Platform Tavern then I'm in favour of it becoming a pub & restaurant.. agedparent

10:51pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?
Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.[/p][/quote]And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?[/p][/quote]Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will. sotonboy84

11:14pm Tue 17 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

If anybody is interested in safeguarding the Wool House & preventing it from being destroyed by turning it into a pub & instead keeping it for community & cultural purposes, please sign the following petition:

http://www.southampt
on.gov.uk/moderngov/
mgEPetitionDisplay.a
spx?ID=55&HPID=15171
6190&
If anybody is interested in safeguarding the Wool House & preventing it from being destroyed by turning it into a pub & instead keeping it for community & cultural purposes, please sign the following petition: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55&HPID=15171 6190& sotonboy84

11:22pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?
Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will.
You say "nothing more than a pub" and you accuse me of not seeing outside the box. Priceless.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.[/p][/quote]And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?[/p][/quote]Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will.[/p][/quote]You say "nothing more than a pub" and you accuse me of not seeing outside the box. Priceless. Stephen J

11:30pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
If anybody is interested in safeguarding the Wool House & preventing it from being destroyed by turning it into a pub & instead keeping it for community & cultural purposes, please sign the following petition:

http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/moderngov/

mgEPetitionDisplay.a

spx?ID=55&HPID=1
5171
6190&
"Destroyed"? It's a Grade 1 listed, Scheduled Ancient Monument. It could not be more protected! As I said above, if you think the consequences of the loss of this community asset have not been properly considered by the council, you have recourse.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: If anybody is interested in safeguarding the Wool House & preventing it from being destroyed by turning it into a pub & instead keeping it for community & cultural purposes, please sign the following petition: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55&HPID=1 5171 6190&[/p][/quote]"Destroyed"? It's a Grade 1 listed, Scheduled Ancient Monument. It could not be more protected! As I said above, if you think the consequences of the loss of this community asset have not been properly considered by the council, you have recourse. Stephen J

11:58pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?
Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will.
You say "nothing more than a pub" and you accuse me of not seeing outside the box. Priceless.
Sotonboy ignores the fact that it's a pub and restaurant that will provide live music. The community will not be losing the building, it will be more accessible.

Hopefully families will eat there and they will open for breakfast like they do the platform tavern.

In doing so his argument that it's inaccessible to those under 18 void. Pubs can be a great community hub, you hear of people fighting to keep pubs open because of thier hub status, even the crap ones. This will as you have read but ignore more than just a pub.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.[/p][/quote]And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?[/p][/quote]Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will.[/p][/quote]You say "nothing more than a pub" and you accuse me of not seeing outside the box. Priceless.[/p][/quote]Sotonboy ignores the fact that it's a pub and restaurant that will provide live music. The community will not be losing the building, it will be more accessible. Hopefully families will eat there and they will open for breakfast like they do the platform tavern. In doing so his argument that it's inaccessible to those under 18 void. Pubs can be a great community hub, you hear of people fighting to keep pubs open because of thier hub status, even the crap ones. This will as you have read but ignore more than just a pub. Brusher Mills

12:32am Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you.

Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims.

The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building.

They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.
'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space.

This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to.

Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…
There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else.

I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups.

The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender.

As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.
It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs.

I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings.

Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.
You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years.

I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton.

I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term.

Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.
I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience.

If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub.

The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.
And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?
Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will.
You say "nothing more than a pub" and you accuse me of not seeing outside the box. Priceless.
Sotonboy ignores the fact that it's a pub and restaurant that will provide live music. The community will not be losing the building, it will be more accessible.

Hopefully families will eat there and they will open for breakfast like they do the platform tavern.

In doing so his argument that it's inaccessible to those under 18 void. Pubs can be a great community hub, you hear of people fighting to keep pubs open because of thier hub status, even the crap ones. This will as you have read but ignore more than just a pub.
Exactly. If this venture is not a community hub, not open all day, not attractive to families, doesn't focus on good local food, drink and music, isn't as attractive to those who don't drink alcohol as it is to those who do, then they'll soon lose my custom as that's what I expect from it. If they can deliver all that, I'll be a regular. No doubt about it.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: Well, most people seem to prefer the brewery idea to the art one, judging by the poll the Echo have now added and most of the comments on here so far. That's democracy for you. Who is to say the brewery hasn't looked elsewhere? They were given a chance to go for it and went for it, as is their right. 'Lost forever' is hyperbole of the worst kind and suggests that even you don't fully believe your own argument is up to scrutiny without making some wild claims. The Art group didn't even bid to stay in the Wool House, as I mentioned above, despite one poster claiming they were paying full commercial rates on the building. They had the same opportunity as Dancing Man, but didn't take it. That's their fault. No one else's.[/p][/quote]'Lost forever' is the only way to describe the future of the Wool House should a brewery take it over. If they're as successful as they predict then they're hardly going to be turfed out by the council to reinstate a museum, gallery or community space. This is about the city losing yet another asset and not about competition. Of course a brewery would win over a small local community group as they can afford to offer the higher price but who does this benefit? This benefits the council piggy bank and a private brewery, not the people of the city that this asset belongs to. Worrying that you believe 'most people' are represented by Daily Echo readers response to a poll…[/p][/quote]There's no point bemoaning the validity of a public poll just because it suggests you're in the minority. The comments and votes on here are a far better guide of public opinion than your own thoughts - unless you think you know what is best for everyone else. I'm sorry to say you've done your argument no favours with the hyperbole and the political mud-slinging just suggests you have an ulterior motive other than simply discussing the merits of the opposing brewery/arts groups. The art group had their chance, and they didn't take it, for whatever reason. If they were that worried, they would have done something about it months ago when the lease was up for tender. As it is, the city now gets what sounds like will be a wonderful and unique establishment and I for one look forward to it - as do most people who have had their say on here.[/p][/quote]It's hardly a public poll, it's a poll that's been running on a local news website for a number of hours. It doesn't suggest I'm the minority at all as you've obviously not read my posts correctly. My argument is that turning the Wool House into a pub would be a loss of a historic building to the people of the city that it belongs to. The poll is asking should the building be used as a pub or for an arts space and NOT should it be turned into a pub OR used as a venue that could be used for a number of community needs. I believe that there are a number of new posters on this website and as this brewery is apparently a Southampton brewery, it raises the question that are these posters connected to the brewery with a one sided opinion in support of the pub rather than looking at the bigger picture and seeing what a loss this particular building would be to the people of the city. There are many vacant buildings in the city so if this concept of pub is going to be so successful then why not use one of them rather than using one of the city's most historic and valuable buildings. Good luck to your and your pub, I for one will be objecting and raising my concerns to English Heritage at the unsuitability of such a use for a grade I listed building in the heart of the historic old town.[/p][/quote]You ask why can't they use another building, the woolhouse is perfect for this brewery I know I would rather eat and drink in a lovely historic building than a modern empty shop etc you also mentioned on an earlier post about short term gain, well I hope this brewery is a success for many many years. I used to visit when it was a museum many times, I haven't been since it closed being a pub restaurant will make it accessible again so hardly a loss to the people of southampton. I hope it will be a place families can eat aswell. More people will visit it in this way then they would an art venue. I believe this building now has a safe future in the long term. Don't get me wrong I like art I studied art history but don't believe it's the future for the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]I'm not suggesting that art is the future of the Wool House, but at least it was being used & run by people of the city, for people of the city. The future of the building should be used for something that will attract a larger audience & a pub has a limited audience. If the dilapidated state of the Platform Tavern is anything to go by then I too seriously worry about the Wool House should it ever be used as a pub. The point is that the building belongs to the people of the city & is hugely important, too important to be turned into a pub & only available to those buying a pint.[/p][/quote]And I think the Wool House is too important to be only available to those who want to scribble on stuff and call it art. Don't I sound ignorant? "...those buying a pint." Honestly, is that what you reduce this to?[/p][/quote]Pointless conversation with somebody who can't see outside of the box but it isn't just about an art group, it's about losing one of the city's most historic buildings to nothing more than a pub. The building should be used for something that opens it up to the city, more than a pub will.[/p][/quote]You say "nothing more than a pub" and you accuse me of not seeing outside the box. Priceless.[/p][/quote]Sotonboy ignores the fact that it's a pub and restaurant that will provide live music. The community will not be losing the building, it will be more accessible. Hopefully families will eat there and they will open for breakfast like they do the platform tavern. In doing so his argument that it's inaccessible to those under 18 void. Pubs can be a great community hub, you hear of people fighting to keep pubs open because of thier hub status, even the crap ones. This will as you have read but ignore more than just a pub.[/p][/quote]Exactly. If this venture is not a community hub, not open all day, not attractive to families, doesn't focus on good local food, drink and music, isn't as attractive to those who don't drink alcohol as it is to those who do, then they'll soon lose my custom as that's what I expect from it. If they can deliver all that, I'll be a regular. No doubt about it. Stephen J

12:49am Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonmusical says...

Dear Echo:
What about a third vote option?

"independent pub with brewery, restaurant, live music, and arts for community."

I like both! Both CAN be done! both would be better!

Why just one or the other?

Why just encourages more silly disagreements, when you could advise people to support both - this would be far better for all involved. - aim for a positive solution, not divisions within our community.

... And I'm sure it would still make just as good story for you too ! ;)
Dear Echo: What about a third vote option? "independent pub with brewery, restaurant, live music, and arts for community." I like both! Both CAN be done! both would be better! Why just one or the other? Why just encourages more silly disagreements, when you could advise people to support both - this would be far better for all involved. - aim for a positive solution, not divisions within our community. ... And I'm sure it would still make just as good story for you too ! ;) sotonmusical

12:54am Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonmusical wrote:
Dear Echo:
What about a third vote option?

"independent pub with brewery, restaurant, live music, and arts for community."

I like both! Both CAN be done! both would be better!

Why just one or the other?

Why just encourages more silly disagreements, when you could advise people to support both - this would be far better for all involved. - aim for a positive solution, not divisions within our community.

... And I'm sure it would still make just as good story for you too ! ;)
I like it. Count me in.
[quote][p][bold]sotonmusical[/bold] wrote: Dear Echo: What about a third vote option? "independent pub with brewery, restaurant, live music, and arts for community." I like both! Both CAN be done! both would be better! Why just one or the other? Why just encourages more silly disagreements, when you could advise people to support both - this would be far better for all involved. - aim for a positive solution, not divisions within our community. ... And I'm sure it would still make just as good story for you too ! ;)[/p][/quote]I like it. Count me in. Stephen J

10:40am Wed 18 Dec 13

bobbyboy says...

As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it.
As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it. bobbyboy

10:51am Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

bobbyboy wrote:
As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it.
Great idea. The building would then be used to its full potential by being available to the largest possible audience and a building of this importance should be celebrated.
[quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it.[/p][/quote]Great idea. The building would then be used to its full potential by being available to the largest possible audience and a building of this importance should be celebrated. sotonboy84

11:17am Wed 18 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
bobbyboy wrote: As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it.
Great idea. The building would then be used to its full potential by being available to the largest possible audience and a building of this importance should be celebrated.
I think gods house tower would be good for the above idea as it once did.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it.[/p][/quote]Great idea. The building would then be used to its full potential by being available to the largest possible audience and a building of this importance should be celebrated.[/p][/quote]I think gods house tower would be good for the above idea as it once did. Brusher Mills

11:30am Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
bobbyboy wrote: As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it.
Great idea. The building would then be used to its full potential by being available to the largest possible audience and a building of this importance should be celebrated.
I think gods house tower would be good for the above idea as it once did.
God's House Tower along with the Wool House are two of the city's most historic buildings and should be used by the people in a way that makes them accessible to the largest possible audience. Their importance, along with a number of historic buildings in the city far outweighs any concept for using them for any commercial venture with a limited audience.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: As Its one of Southampton most Historic buildings why not use it to display Southampton's Pasts and History from Roman to Present at least then the cruise liners vistors will have something to look at the Council could then approach Cunard/Port etc for funding to help run it as all would benifit all in the long run. My fear for it being a pub/restaurant if it goes bust will that be the end of it so many going to the Walls in southampton its location and lack of parking and charges for cannot make it viable for an evening visit. As Southampton has been a port since Clausentium (biterne Manor) to Hamwick(St Mary's) to the present day port there is heaps of history that a lot of Sotonians dont have a clue about so USE IT dont ABUSE it.[/p][/quote]Great idea. The building would then be used to its full potential by being available to the largest possible audience and a building of this importance should be celebrated.[/p][/quote]I think gods house tower would be good for the above idea as it once did.[/p][/quote]God's House Tower along with the Wool House are two of the city's most historic buildings and should be used by the people in a way that makes them accessible to the largest possible audience. Their importance, along with a number of historic buildings in the city far outweighs any concept for using them for any commercial venture with a limited audience. sotonboy84

1:00pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Beer Monster says...

sotonmusical wrote:
I was under the impression that it was only ever meant to be used by Element Arts while the place was empty, and that Element Arts aim was to make use of un-used buildings for community/art space? Understandably they'll want to keep it because having such a wonderful famous building has been a luxury given to them to use for this time that artists don't often get (if they'd given it to me to live in, I wouldn't want to leave either!)

Any one that knows the platform tavern knows that they, as a local independent business have a fantastic reputation locally in supporting the local creative scene with live music, as well as being a local employer and preserving local history (oh and serving their own real ale).

The Woolhouse building will need maintenance which I imagine will be rather expensive to keep it running - so surely it will need to be run for financial reasons by a commercial venture - and fortunately a local independent business have stepped forward, and the council haven't allowed for it to become another soulless weatherspoons/costa/ chain.

So - artists, rather than campaigning against The Platform Tavern, why not support them on the basis that they're a very good respectable independent, art and history loving pub, respond to their suggestion of having your local art exhibited there while they run it, and enjoy some live music and local real ale while you're at it - everyone's a winner!! And by supporting each other you'll be making sure it never goes unused, or taken over by a chain (boo!).

It's not the end of the Arts Community - there are LOADS of disused buildings about that need your love, as well as the new build going on in the 'Arts Quarter' and great existing community art places such as the Art House.

Just doesn't really make sense artists campaigning against people that have done so much to support the local creative scene!
By far the most sensible and well rounded post on the thread, well done.

The Platform is one of the best pubs in Southampton; friendly staff, good food, own brewed ale and live music provided by local, national and international acts. The place is the blueprint of how to run a business like that correctly. If this is not to be encouraged to flourish then we may as well give up on the UK economy now.
[quote][p][bold]sotonmusical[/bold] wrote: I was under the impression that it was only ever meant to be used by Element Arts while the place was empty, and that Element Arts aim was to make use of un-used buildings for community/art space? Understandably they'll want to keep it because having such a wonderful famous building has been a luxury given to them to use for this time that artists don't often get (if they'd given it to me to live in, I wouldn't want to leave either!) Any one that knows the platform tavern knows that they, as a local independent business have a fantastic reputation locally in supporting the local creative scene with live music, as well as being a local employer and preserving local history (oh and serving their own real ale). The Woolhouse building will need maintenance which I imagine will be rather expensive to keep it running - so surely it will need to be run for financial reasons by a commercial venture - and fortunately a local independent business have stepped forward, and the council haven't allowed for it to become another soulless weatherspoons/costa/ chain. So - artists, rather than campaigning against The Platform Tavern, why not support them on the basis that they're a very good respectable independent, art and history loving pub, respond to their suggestion of having your local art exhibited there while they run it, and enjoy some live music and local real ale while you're at it - everyone's a winner!! And by supporting each other you'll be making sure it never goes unused, or taken over by a chain (boo!). It's not the end of the Arts Community - there are LOADS of disused buildings about that need your love, as well as the new build going on in the 'Arts Quarter' and great existing community art places such as the Art House. Just doesn't really make sense artists campaigning against people that have done so much to support the local creative scene![/p][/quote]By far the most sensible and well rounded post on the thread, well done. The Platform is one of the best pubs in Southampton; friendly staff, good food, own brewed ale and live music provided by local, national and international acts. The place is the blueprint of how to run a business like that correctly. If this is not to be encouraged to flourish then we may as well give up on the UK economy now. Beer Monster

1:24pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.
'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland. Stephen J

3:14pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.
Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience.

The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre.

I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link.

http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/moderngov/

mgEPetitionDisplay.a

spx?ID=55&HPID=15171

6190&
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: 'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.[/p][/quote]Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience. The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre. I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link. http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55&HPID=15171 6190& sotonboy84

5:39pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.
Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience.

The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre.

I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link.

http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/moderngov/


mgEPetitionDisplay.a


spx?ID=55&HPID=1
5171

6190&
I agree. A proposal for somewhere to buy a pint must necessarily be less inclusive than an infinitely boundless range of potential community activities. Now try it again with the proposal that's actually on the table and contrast it with a plausible, viable definition of "community use". In other words, demontrate how you know that the audience for the former is "limited" and the audience for the latter is "much wider".
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: 'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.[/p][/quote]Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience. The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre. I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link. http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55&HPID=1 5171 6190&[/p][/quote]I agree. A proposal for somewhere to buy a pint must necessarily be less inclusive than an infinitely boundless range of potential community activities. Now try it again with the proposal that's actually on the table and contrast it with a plausible, viable definition of "community use". In other words, demontrate how you know that the audience for the former is "limited" and the audience for the latter is "much wider". Stephen J

5:40pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.
Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience.

The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre.

I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link.

http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/moderngov/


mgEPetitionDisplay.a


spx?ID=55&HPID=1
5171

6190&
It will be accessible and not to a minority. It will probably get more visitors in a micro brewery restaurant form than an art centre, people on cruises will flick there it would be unique . A great idea in a great environment.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: 'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.[/p][/quote]Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience. The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre. I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link. http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55&HPID=1 5171 6190&[/p][/quote]It will be accessible and not to a minority. It will probably get more visitors in a micro brewery restaurant form than an art centre, people on cruises will flick there it would be unique . A great idea in a great environment. Brusher Mills

6:29pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Bananalu says...

Why is the poll and either'/or vote? Why can't it be both?
Why is the poll and either'/or vote? Why can't it be both? Bananalu

6:32pm Wed 18 Dec 13

joehudson says...

the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt
on.gov.uk/moderngov/
mgEPetitionDisplay.a
spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.
uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt
on.gov.uk/.../artsco
mplexconstruction...

2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then. joehudson

6:44pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.
Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience.

The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre.

I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link.

http://www.southampt



on.gov.uk/moderngov/



mgEPetitionDisplay.a



spx?ID=55&HPID=1

5171

6190&
It will be accessible and not to a minority. It will probably get more visitors in a micro brewery restaurant form than an art centre, people on cruises will flick there it would be unique . A great idea in a great environment.
So which two are you and Zootopian of the three members of the brewery?!!
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: 'Pubs and inns provide more than food and drink. They are often the cornerstone of a local community and a great way to discover more about a destination, be it the produce on the menu, the history of the people and surroundings, or the great walks and activities in the area.' Amanda Smyth, head of marketing, VisitEngland.[/p][/quote]Amanda Smyth is correct in her opinion but you cannot blanket approach her opinion to all pubs in the country. A well run pub in a residential area, or a village can be the hub of a community and I'm not suggesting that the concept of this pub wouldn't be. The issue for me and for other people of the city is that the Wool House far too important a building to the city and the people of the city to be used for a pub with a limited audience. The building needs to remain in community use, whatever that may be and at present a community cultural centre is a far better idea that allows access to a far wider community than a pub will. If the concept of an open brewery will be so popular then it will remain popular if it opens in one of the vacant buildings in the city centre. I urge anybody that would prefer the Wool House to remain accessible to the people of the city and visitors to sign the following petition and object to the planning application if it's handed in in the new year. If this link fails then search for 'Wool House petition' and you will find the link. http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55&HPID=1 5171 6190&[/p][/quote]It will be accessible and not to a minority. It will probably get more visitors in a micro brewery restaurant form than an art centre, people on cruises will flick there it would be unique . A great idea in a great environment.[/p][/quote]So which two are you and Zootopian of the three members of the brewery?!! sotonboy84

6:45pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/moderngov/

mgEPetitionDisplay.a

spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.

uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/.../artsco

mplexconstruction...


2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
[quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's? Brusher Mills

6:51pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/moderngov/

mgEPetitionDisplay.a

spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.

uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/.../artsco

mplexconstruction...


2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Very well said.

If any plans for a brewery are submitted to the council then I for one will be objecting on the basis that using the Wool House as a pub will be the loss of an iconic, important city building and proven community space for the gain of a private brewery.

As over 250 people have already signed the petition to date, I'm sure these people will be glad to also submit an objection to any potential plans.
[quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Very well said. If any plans for a brewery are submitted to the council then I for one will be objecting on the basis that using the Wool House as a pub will be the loss of an iconic, important city building and proven community space for the gain of a private brewery. As over 250 people have already signed the petition to date, I'm sure these people will be glad to also submit an objection to any potential plans. sotonboy84

6:53pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/moderngov/


mgEPetitionDisplay.a


spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.


uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/.../artsco


mplexconstruction...



2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?[/p][/quote]Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space. sotonboy84

7:46pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Eco-art says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt



on.gov.uk/moderngov/



mgEPetitionDisplay.a



spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.



uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt



on.gov.uk/.../artsco



mplexconstruction...




2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.
I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded.

The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space.

Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future?

Hippy rant over.

*steps off box*
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?[/p][/quote]Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.[/p][/quote]I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded. The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space. Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future? Hippy rant over. *steps off box* Eco-art

7:51pm Wed 18 Dec 13

thinklikealocal says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up. thinklikealocal

8:07pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/moderngov/

mgEPetitionDisplay.a

spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.

uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/.../artsco

mplexconstruction...


2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
1. Agreed.
2. Agreed absolutely.
3. Did EA also cover the costs of the maintenance and conservation of the building fabric? Could they? We cannot get away from the fact of local authorities being keen to reduce expenditure. Elected members recognise real reductions in expenditure much more than they do theoretical economic generation, however much they support the concept. It's just how it is.
4. Agreed.
5. The logic of this defies me. Why would the owners of an existing, successful pub just down the road want to open another venue if the business case for doing so was not proven? The proposed venture is highly likely to be reliant on bank support. What bank would support a business plan based on nothing more than a vague "we want to open a pub" notion when the sector is demonstrably declining? My feeling is that what is proposed will actually help to grow the market by attracting new consumers. For example, I will visit the Wool House instead of staying at home, not instead of visiting another pub. The offer is that strong.

I think we're left with a problem. The proposal on the table relies on being located in the Wool House. It won't work otherwise. The Wool House is also perfect for community cultural activities. I can see both sides, and any argument that can be made in favour of one can be countered by an argument in favour of the other. I'm a member of a local poetry group. We meet once a month in the rather sterile surroundings of the local library. Would it be more attractive to meet in the Wool House? Of course. Would the option of meeting in the Wool House be enough to make me go there? No. Would I go to the Wool House with friends to support local live music and sample some craft real ale, or go for a decent coffee in there before getting on the Red Jet, as I frequently do? Yes! A personal point of view I know, but let me add to it. I have spent many years in cultural heritage management. I have also been a licensee. How I wished I could have introduced the diverse range and number of people who were attracted by well-run, innovative licensed premises into cultural heritage. The proposal on the table has all the hallmarks of being able to achieve just that. Too often we insist that historic buildings must only be put to overtly heritage or cultural use. It doesn’t have to be like that at all; we are allowed to dare to think outside of that bix and indeed we are compelled to do so if a proposal can also provide for the long-term conservation of a building as important as the Wool House. That is why I support this proposal, not just as a potential customer, but from a much wider perspective.
[quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]1. Agreed. 2. Agreed absolutely. 3. Did EA also cover the costs of the maintenance and conservation of the building fabric? Could they? We cannot get away from the fact of local authorities being keen to reduce expenditure. Elected members recognise real reductions in expenditure much more than they do theoretical economic generation, however much they support the concept. It's just how it is. 4. Agreed. 5. The logic of this defies me. Why would the owners of an existing, successful pub just down the road want to open another venue if the business case for doing so was not proven? The proposed venture is highly likely to be reliant on bank support. What bank would support a business plan based on nothing more than a vague "we want to open a pub" notion when the sector is demonstrably declining? My feeling is that what is proposed will actually help to grow the market by attracting new consumers. For example, I will visit the Wool House instead of staying at home, not instead of visiting another pub. The offer is that strong. I think we're left with a problem. The proposal on the table relies on being located in the Wool House. It won't work otherwise. The Wool House is also perfect for community cultural activities. I can see both sides, and any argument that can be made in favour of one can be countered by an argument in favour of the other. I'm a member of a local poetry group. We meet once a month in the rather sterile surroundings of the local library. Would it be more attractive to meet in the Wool House? Of course. Would the option of meeting in the Wool House be enough to make me go there? No. Would I go to the Wool House with friends to support local live music and sample some craft real ale, or go for a decent coffee in there before getting on the Red Jet, as I frequently do? Yes! A personal point of view I know, but let me add to it. I have spent many years in cultural heritage management. I have also been a licensee. How I wished I could have introduced the diverse range and number of people who were attracted by well-run, innovative licensed premises into cultural heritage. The proposal on the table has all the hallmarks of being able to achieve just that. Too often we insist that historic buildings must only be put to overtly heritage or cultural use. It doesn’t have to be like that at all; we are allowed to dare to think outside of that bix and indeed we are compelled to do so if a proposal can also provide for the long-term conservation of a building as important as the Wool House. That is why I support this proposal, not just as a potential customer, but from a much wider perspective. Stephen J

8:25pm Wed 18 Dec 13

joehudson says...

Eco-art wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt




on.gov.uk/moderngov/




mgEPetitionDisplay.a




spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.




uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt




on.gov.uk/.../artsco




mplexconstruction...





2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.
I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded.

The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space.

Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future?

Hippy rant over.

*steps off box*
Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself.

It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone.

As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment.

As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.
[quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?[/p][/quote]Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.[/p][/quote]I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded. The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space. Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future? Hippy rant over. *steps off box*[/p][/quote]Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself. It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone. As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment. As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it. joehudson

8:46pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Eco-art says...

joehudson wrote:
Eco-art wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt





on.gov.uk/moderngov/





mgEPetitionDisplay.a





spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.





uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt





on.gov.uk/.../artsco





mplexconstruction...






2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.
I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded.

The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space.

Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future?

Hippy rant over.

*steps off box*
Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself.

It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone.

As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment.

As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.
Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here.

The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton.

Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone.

As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no?
[quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?[/p][/quote]Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.[/p][/quote]I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded. The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space. Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future? Hippy rant over. *steps off box*[/p][/quote]Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself. It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone. As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment. As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.[/p][/quote]Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here. The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton. Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone. As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no? Eco-art

8:51pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
[quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city. sotonboy84

9:05pm Wed 18 Dec 13

loosehead says...

do you think this could be big enough for the aircraft museum?
do you think this could be big enough for the aircraft museum? loosehead

9:07pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence? Stephen J

9:15pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery. sotonboy84

9:20pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

loosehead wrote:
do you think this could be big enough for the aircraft museum?
The Sandringham flying boat would have to be carted in in very small pieces indeed. And anyway, something the size of Terminal 5 at Heathrow would be too small for Alan Jones's aspirations. (This is a joke, by the way) ; )
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: do you think this could be big enough for the aircraft museum?[/p][/quote]The Sandringham flying boat would have to be carted in in very small pieces indeed. And anyway, something the size of Terminal 5 at Heathrow would be too small for Alan Jones's aspirations. (This is a joke, by the way) ; ) Stephen J

9:40pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
Oh dear. I enjoyed debating with you but you've now clearly lost the plot. No one in the brewery would know me from Adam. But I do like what they are offering and I conclude that, as a pakage, it's a reasonable deal all round. Simple as that. Even though we don't agree, I understand your point of view and I wish you all the very best with taking it forward.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.[/p][/quote]Oh dear. I enjoyed debating with you but you've now clearly lost the plot. No one in the brewery would know me from Adam. But I do like what they are offering and I conclude that, as a pakage, it's a reasonable deal all round. Simple as that. Even though we don't agree, I understand your point of view and I wish you all the very best with taking it forward. Stephen J

9:48pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales.

You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers.

You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field.

The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts.

But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.[/p][/quote]There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales. You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers. You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field. The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts. But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub. Brusher Mills

10:59pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales.

You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers.

You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field.

The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts.

But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.
I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue.

All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city.

I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.[/p][/quote]There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales. You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers. You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field. The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts. But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.[/p][/quote]I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue. All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city. I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery. sotonboy84

11:58pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales.

You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers.

You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field.

The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts.

But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.
I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue.

All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city.

I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.
Assuming that people don't agree with you either because they have an ulterior motive or because they can't see what you're trying to say represents breathtaking arrogance. The people who don't agree with you do so because they think that, despite however many times you repeat yourself, that you're just wrong. Now, given the battle that may well be ahead of you, how do you intend to convince people that you are right. Appeals to personal opinion or emotion won't do it. I know, I've been there. So what are you going to do? As I say: evidence. I am more on your side than might be obvious....
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.[/p][/quote]There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales. You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers. You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field. The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts. But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.[/p][/quote]I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue. All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city. I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.[/p][/quote]Assuming that people don't agree with you either because they have an ulterior motive or because they can't see what you're trying to say represents breathtaking arrogance. The people who don't agree with you do so because they think that, despite however many times you repeat yourself, that you're just wrong. Now, given the battle that may well be ahead of you, how do you intend to convince people that you are right. Appeals to personal opinion or emotion won't do it. I know, I've been there. So what are you going to do? As I say: evidence. I am more on your side than might be obvious.... Stephen J

2:46am Thu 19 Dec 13

joehudson says...

Eco-art wrote:
joehudson wrote:
Eco-art wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt






on.gov.uk/moderngov/






mgEPetitionDisplay.a






spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.






uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt






on.gov.uk/.../artsco






mplexconstruction...







2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.
I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded.

The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space.

Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future?

Hippy rant over.

*steps off box*
Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself.

It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone.

As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment.

As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.
Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here.

The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton.

Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone.

As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no?
Glad to hear your main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community.

It seems there are two distinct approaches being put forward, of evaluating plans for the Wool House and how they benefit the city.

A. As a cultural asset, with economic benefits.

B. As an economic asset, with cultural benefits.

There is some overlap, as you point out, the Platform Tavern are likely to continue supporting artists and may well make space available for workshops, special events and such like, as many pubs which have the space in Southampton do. Similarly, EA ran a popular cafe downstairs alongside all the cultural activity it supported and promoted.

However, if our main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community, i.e. approach A., then it should be fairly clear that a primary focus on supporting and developing local culture will net the better results. Turning it into a pub (no doubt a very nice one, run by very nice people), the cultural element would have to fit around the business of it being a pub and restaurant. This is how commercial interests get in the way.

As for keeping the Wool House in good condition, if nice, culture supporting people can run a successful pub, then surely a large number of nice, culture supporting people can organize themselves to fix a roof? In fact I know several such people with professional expertize in fixing roofs, and no doubt other Wool House supporters will know more. Where there is a will, and the community comes together, there is a way. There is also the fact that it is a grade 1 listed building, which I believe means government funds and grants are made available for its upkeep, especially where the purpose is for the development of culture.

Maybe it's possible for the Platform Tavern to have a great new venue and for the Wool House to remain as a cultural hub for the community? What about the currently unused, beautiful building that used to be the Ferryman & Firkin? It's a great location surely for a successful pub to move into?

No one has contacted me from Platform Tavern, although the contact details are available on the FB community page 'wool house for the community', and I can be reached from the FB name 'joehuds0n'. I'd be happy to talk.
[quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?[/p][/quote]Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.[/p][/quote]I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded. The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space. Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future? Hippy rant over. *steps off box*[/p][/quote]Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself. It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone. As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment. As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.[/p][/quote]Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here. The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton. Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone. As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no?[/p][/quote]Glad to hear your main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community. It seems there are two distinct approaches being put forward, of evaluating plans for the Wool House and how they benefit the city. A. As a cultural asset, with economic benefits. B. As an economic asset, with cultural benefits. There is some overlap, as you point out, the Platform Tavern are likely to continue supporting artists and may well make space available for workshops, special events and such like, as many pubs which have the space in Southampton do. Similarly, EA ran a popular cafe downstairs alongside all the cultural activity it supported and promoted. However, if our main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community, i.e. approach A., then it should be fairly clear that a primary focus on supporting and developing local culture will net the better results. Turning it into a pub (no doubt a very nice one, run by very nice people), the cultural element would have to fit around the business of it being a pub and restaurant. This is how commercial interests get in the way. As for keeping the Wool House in good condition, if nice, culture supporting people can run a successful pub, then surely a large number of nice, culture supporting people can organize themselves to fix a roof? In fact I know several such people with professional expertize in fixing roofs, and no doubt other Wool House supporters will know more. Where there is a will, and the community comes together, there is a way. There is also the fact that it is a grade 1 listed building, which I believe means government funds and grants are made available for its upkeep, especially where the purpose is for the development of culture. Maybe it's possible for the Platform Tavern to have a great new venue and for the Wool House to remain as a cultural hub for the community? What about the currently unused, beautiful building that used to be the Ferryman & Firkin? It's a great location surely for a successful pub to move into? No one has contacted me from Platform Tavern, although the contact details are available on the FB community page 'wool house for the community', and I can be reached from the FB name 'joehuds0n'. I'd be happy to talk. joehudson

6:04am Thu 19 Dec 13

Brusher Mills says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales.

You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers.

You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field.

The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts.

But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.
I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue.

All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city.

I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.
The idea could work in other buildings but in the Woolhouse the idea is fantastic, where would you tather go and eat drink a building built in the last 30 years and has no character or a place with character, history and uniqueness like the woolhouse.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.[/p][/quote]There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales. You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers. You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field. The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts. But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.[/p][/quote]I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue. All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city. I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.[/p][/quote]The idea could work in other buildings but in the Woolhouse the idea is fantastic, where would you tather go and eat drink a building built in the last 30 years and has no character or a place with character, history and uniqueness like the woolhouse. Brusher Mills

7:23am Thu 19 Dec 13

Eco-art says...

joehudson wrote:
Eco-art wrote:
joehudson wrote:
Eco-art wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt







on.gov.uk/moderngov/







mgEPetitionDisplay.a







spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.







uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt







on.gov.uk/.../artsco







mplexconstruction...








2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.
I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded.

The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space.

Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future?

Hippy rant over.

*steps off box*
Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself.

It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone.

As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment.

As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.
Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here.

The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton.

Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone.

As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no?
Glad to hear your main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community.

It seems there are two distinct approaches being put forward, of evaluating plans for the Wool House and how they benefit the city.

A. As a cultural asset, with economic benefits.

B. As an economic asset, with cultural benefits.

There is some overlap, as you point out, the Platform Tavern are likely to continue supporting artists and may well make space available for workshops, special events and such like, as many pubs which have the space in Southampton do. Similarly, EA ran a popular cafe downstairs alongside all the cultural activity it supported and promoted.

However, if our main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community, i.e. approach A., then it should be fairly clear that a primary focus on supporting and developing local culture will net the better results. Turning it into a pub (no doubt a very nice one, run by very nice people), the cultural element would have to fit around the business of it being a pub and restaurant. This is how commercial interests get in the way.

As for keeping the Wool House in good condition, if nice, culture supporting people can run a successful pub, then surely a large number of nice, culture supporting people can organize themselves to fix a roof? In fact I know several such people with professional expertize in fixing roofs, and no doubt other Wool House supporters will know more. Where there is a will, and the community comes together, there is a way. There is also the fact that it is a grade 1 listed building, which I believe means government funds and grants are made available for its upkeep, especially where the purpose is for the development of culture.

Maybe it's possible for the Platform Tavern to have a great new venue and for the Wool House to remain as a cultural hub for the community? What about the currently unused, beautiful building that used to be the Ferryman & Firkin? It's a great location surely for a successful pub to move into?

No one has contacted me from Platform Tavern, although the contact details are available on the FB community page 'wool house for the community', and I can be reached from the FB name 'joehuds0n'. I'd be happy to talk.
Hi Joe,

There is potential in your argument that a lovely bunch of people could pull together the resources and skills to do all of this to keep it open as a volunteer run building (although I think you are underestimating the amount of work that is required). I know there is an historic theatre/community hub in Pompey which appears to be doing well. However I think it basically boils down to the fact that no-one did this. The building stood empty for a long time before EA even moved in. They didn't bid when the lease was up because they didn't want to and neither did anyone else with the same idea. No-one applied for funding to save the wool house then. There were only commercial bids (and personally I still believe this is a viable option) and the platform were successful.

I don't know if there is anything you can do about that now so wonder if you should join forces or at least be amenable. From talking to the chaps there I have been told that they contacted you and Sally via Facebook and received no response. Having looked at your page myself I see that you must join the group before you can contact anyone and I'm sure they felt their request to join would not be accepted.

As for the recurring argument of using the ferryman and firkin, the plans were designed around the wool house when it's lease was up and future was uncertain. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have looked elsewhere if it wasn't, but I don't see that the ferryman and firkin would fit with this at all. There is only one level there for public access which would not enable them to have the open plan brewery separate from the event/pub/restaurant
. It may be a possible site but why would they use a building that doesn't suit their plans when a suitable building is available and the only other options that anyone put was an Indian restaurant and tesco express?

I'm just not sure what you are hoping to achieve other than trying to gather a band of people to stand against the business and am not sure you can do much to stop it as every path has been followed. The bidding process is over?
[quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?[/p][/quote]Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.[/p][/quote]I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded. The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space. Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future? Hippy rant over. *steps off box*[/p][/quote]Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself. It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone. As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment. As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.[/p][/quote]Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here. The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton. Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone. As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no?[/p][/quote]Glad to hear your main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community. It seems there are two distinct approaches being put forward, of evaluating plans for the Wool House and how they benefit the city. A. As a cultural asset, with economic benefits. B. As an economic asset, with cultural benefits. There is some overlap, as you point out, the Platform Tavern are likely to continue supporting artists and may well make space available for workshops, special events and such like, as many pubs which have the space in Southampton do. Similarly, EA ran a popular cafe downstairs alongside all the cultural activity it supported and promoted. However, if our main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community, i.e. approach A., then it should be fairly clear that a primary focus on supporting and developing local culture will net the better results. Turning it into a pub (no doubt a very nice one, run by very nice people), the cultural element would have to fit around the business of it being a pub and restaurant. This is how commercial interests get in the way. As for keeping the Wool House in good condition, if nice, culture supporting people can run a successful pub, then surely a large number of nice, culture supporting people can organize themselves to fix a roof? In fact I know several such people with professional expertize in fixing roofs, and no doubt other Wool House supporters will know more. Where there is a will, and the community comes together, there is a way. There is also the fact that it is a grade 1 listed building, which I believe means government funds and grants are made available for its upkeep, especially where the purpose is for the development of culture. Maybe it's possible for the Platform Tavern to have a great new venue and for the Wool House to remain as a cultural hub for the community? What about the currently unused, beautiful building that used to be the Ferryman & Firkin? It's a great location surely for a successful pub to move into? No one has contacted me from Platform Tavern, although the contact details are available on the FB community page 'wool house for the community', and I can be reached from the FB name 'joehuds0n'. I'd be happy to talk.[/p][/quote]Hi Joe, There is potential in your argument that a lovely bunch of people could pull together the resources and skills to do all of this to keep it open as a volunteer run building (although I think you are underestimating the amount of work that is required). I know there is an historic theatre/community hub in Pompey which appears to be doing well. However I think it basically boils down to the fact that no-one did this. The building stood empty for a long time before EA even moved in. They didn't bid when the lease was up because they didn't want to and neither did anyone else with the same idea. No-one applied for funding to save the wool house then. There were only commercial bids (and personally I still believe this is a viable option) and the platform were successful. I don't know if there is anything you can do about that now so wonder if you should join forces or at least be amenable. From talking to the chaps there I have been told that they contacted you and Sally via Facebook and received no response. Having looked at your page myself I see that you must join the group before you can contact anyone and I'm sure they felt their request to join would not be accepted. As for the recurring argument of using the ferryman and firkin, the plans were designed around the wool house when it's lease was up and future was uncertain. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have looked elsewhere if it wasn't, but I don't see that the ferryman and firkin would fit with this at all. There is only one level there for public access which would not enable them to have the open plan brewery separate from the event/pub/restaurant . It may be a possible site but why would they use a building that doesn't suit their plans when a suitable building is available and the only other options that anyone put was an Indian restaurant and tesco express? I'm just not sure what you are hoping to achieve other than trying to gather a band of people to stand against the business and am not sure you can do much to stop it as every path has been followed. The bidding process is over? Eco-art

10:46am Thu 19 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales.

You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers.

You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field.

The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts.

But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.
I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue.

All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city.

I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.
Assuming that people don't agree with you either because they have an ulterior motive or because they can't see what you're trying to say represents breathtaking arrogance. The people who don't agree with you do so because they think that, despite however many times you repeat yourself, that you're just wrong. Now, given the battle that may well be ahead of you, how do you intend to convince people that you are right. Appeals to personal opinion or emotion won't do it. I know, I've been there. So what are you going to do? As I say: evidence. I am more on your side than might be obvious....
But people do agree with me. I'm not out to win a battle against a brewery just for the sake of it, I'm against the loss of one of the city's most important buildings. I think you'll find that some of those against keeping the building as a community space have a connection with the brewery and will obviously defend their plans. The comments on this story are just my personal comments and passion for saving the building from the hands of a commercial venture.

As I've made clear, I have nothing against the brewery as their ideas sound good and personally I'm quite indifferent to them but the choice of building is unacceptable as it's one of the city's most ancient and important buildings and should be available to the widest possible community and a pub can't achieve this. A pub limits the audience and the community loses a valuable building.

It's like proposing to turn the Tudor House into a pub or a hotel, it would be madness. And in case you weren't aware the council at the time the building was restored intended to restore Tudor House with heritage grants and only open it for paying private functions. Obviously this would have been madness and a great loss to the city. A local woman staged a one woman campaign and collected over 2000 signatures and made her story known through the Echo and local radio. Sure enough as there was so much community support the building was re-opened as a museum and I'm sure you're aware what an asset and success the building is to the city.

The same applies to the Wool House and it's unacceptable that this could be lost as community space. Raising awareness about the potential loss to the people of the city I believe will gain just as much support as Tudor House did and likely a lot more support as this local woman relied on signatures from people in the city centre and not social media.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.[/p][/quote]There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales. You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers. You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field. The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts. But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.[/p][/quote]I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue. All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city. I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.[/p][/quote]Assuming that people don't agree with you either because they have an ulterior motive or because they can't see what you're trying to say represents breathtaking arrogance. The people who don't agree with you do so because they think that, despite however many times you repeat yourself, that you're just wrong. Now, given the battle that may well be ahead of you, how do you intend to convince people that you are right. Appeals to personal opinion or emotion won't do it. I know, I've been there. So what are you going to do? As I say: evidence. I am more on your side than might be obvious....[/p][/quote]But people do agree with me. I'm not out to win a battle against a brewery just for the sake of it, I'm against the loss of one of the city's most important buildings. I think you'll find that some of those against keeping the building as a community space have a connection with the brewery and will obviously defend their plans. The comments on this story are just my personal comments and passion for saving the building from the hands of a commercial venture. As I've made clear, I have nothing against the brewery as their ideas sound good and personally I'm quite indifferent to them but the choice of building is unacceptable as it's one of the city's most ancient and important buildings and should be available to the widest possible community and a pub can't achieve this. A pub limits the audience and the community loses a valuable building. It's like proposing to turn the Tudor House into a pub or a hotel, it would be madness. And in case you weren't aware the council at the time the building was restored intended to restore Tudor House with heritage grants and only open it for paying private functions. Obviously this would have been madness and a great loss to the city. A local woman staged a one woman campaign and collected over 2000 signatures and made her story known through the Echo and local radio. Sure enough as there was so much community support the building was re-opened as a museum and I'm sure you're aware what an asset and success the building is to the city. The same applies to the Wool House and it's unacceptable that this could be lost as community space. Raising awareness about the potential loss to the people of the city I believe will gain just as much support as Tudor House did and likely a lot more support as this local woman relied on signatures from people in the city centre and not social media. sotonboy84

10:56am Thu 19 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.
I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent
Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.
Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.
Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company.

The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in.

But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city.

I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.
I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?
I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract.

I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.
There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales.

You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers.

You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field.

The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts.

But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.
I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue.

All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city.

I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.
The idea could work in other buildings but in the Woolhouse the idea is fantastic, where would you tather go and eat drink a building built in the last 30 years and has no character or a place with character, history and uniqueness like the woolhouse.
Exactly. Your plans do sound different to an ordinary chain pub and as they do seem somewhat unique, they would work in other buildings regardless of the surroundings. What you forget is the Wool House isn't just a nice old building with a bit of character, it's one of Southampton's most unique, historic and important buildings and steeped with character. As such a special building, it needs to be kept for as many people as possible to use and enjoy. There is very little culture in the city and the group that were running the Wool House have proven what a success they were in such a short amount of time and how they opened the Wool House to the people of the city and brought them culture.

The pub idea although different to your high street chain is still a pub and the city has many different types of drinking establishments. The arts group ticked all the boxes by making the Wool House available to the largest possible audience, gave the people of the city something they were lacking which was their sole intention and they proved what a success they were. The brewery concept as nice as it sounds has profit to put before any culture and access is limited compared to a community space and this is where you differ. As I've made clear, I wish the brewery success as a business and for bringing people to the city but the city cannot lose a community asset at the expense of a private commercial venture.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: “I find it astonishing that the council would even contemplate sacrificing one of our most precious heritage assets and allow it to become a place that will appeal to such a narrow part of the community.” You shouldn't expect anything less from a Labout run council. They put any opportunity to make money before the people of the city or its heritage. You only have to look at the evening parking charges for that. Simon Letts has a lot to answer for. Whatever people's views are on the Wool House being used as a community space, it's a far more valuable option for anybody in the city to use than yet another pub that has a very limited audience.[/p][/quote]I think that you will find it was the Tories that started the ball rolling. . They were also well up for it being turned into a pub or club. . It is strange that for about eight long years the Tories have run or part run this council and contributed to the destruction and decimation of its unique areas ........ yet people like you expect another party to come in and put everything right in 18 months ..... just dpesnt happen .... but at least you could put the blame at the correct party . ...... even if it does give your Tory pride a bit of a dent[/p][/quote]Oh of course, here you come with your selective memory. Pointing the finger of blame at anybody other than useless Labour. You seem to forget that it's Labour that have implemented these plans and it was Labour that got the country royally in the sh*t that the Conservatives are trying to sort out. The only thing Labour did any good at was really messing up the country and bringing it to their knees, assuming that was their intention. My pride has no dent, you seem to be the one that has dented pride as soon as somebody suggests that lazy benefit claimants should get a job or move to a smaller property if they decide they don't want to pay the 'bedroom tax'. A celebrated move by the Conservatives to try and correct the years of abuse from spendthrift Labour.[/p][/quote]Your posts as a Tory supporter are quite confusing.... You don't seem to have any commercial awareness or understanding of the fact that the Council had had its funding decimated by the Condems and can no longer afford to support marginal (at best) local interest groups. Grow up.[/p][/quote]Well if you want to get into politics, it was Labour who brought this country to its knees and its the present government are trying to sort out the mess they left behind. Cuts are unfortunately the only way to balance the books, Labour are spendthrifts. Government cuts are no excuse for selling out a city's heritage to a private company. The issue isn't about cuts or a way to protect the building and repair it as there are alternatives. Just as an example, as a Grade I listed monument it's highly likely that various grants are available to carry out any restoration work and once done, the venue is still accessible to the people of the city and not a severely limited audience that a pub would bring in. But, the issue of the Wool House is not about politics, it's about keeping one of the city's most important and historic buildings accessible to the people of the city and making it as widely accessible to the whole community. Using it as a community space will make it far more accessible than a pub ever could. Somebody has said that they intend to show artwork - so what. It's not about showing artwork, it's about the loss of a community space which also happens to be a hugely important building to the city. I won't sit back and watch it be taken away for the sake of a commercial venture because the only people that gain are the brewery and not the people of the city.[/p][/quote]I see that the previously merely "limited" pub audience has now become "severely limited". Evidence?[/p][/quote]I'm not going to argue about utter tosh and choice of words with you, it's irrelevant. The pub audience will be limited, severely limited, dangerously limited, whatever you like but it will be limited in comparison to the audience that a community venue will attract. I'm passionate about keeping the Wool House as a community venue and won't argue with somebody that clearly has a biased interest (still not sure which one of the brewery you represent) rather than looking at the bigger picture and putting what's best for the broader city before a commercial money making venture of a private brewery.[/p][/quote]There you go again with just your 'pub' talk and limited audience blah blah blah. Not once have you awknowledged that this will be an independent local brewery it's not a big chain like wetherspoons. The art will be crafting local ales. You also ignore that it will be a restaurant that will cook with local produce thus helping local farmers and suppliers. You also ignore that it is a live music venue displaying talent from your local community and from further a field. The place also plans to display local art and historic artifacts. But you will ignore all of this as to you it's just a pub.[/p][/quote]I don't ignore the concept of this pub at all, I don't care. I only care about the people of this city losing out on a community venue. All these things you say sound wonderful & there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that links the potential success you talk about to the Wool House. There are plenty of vacant buildings to choose from & if this concept is so dazzling & watertight, it will survive anywhere in the city. I hope you can see now that my argument is about retaining the wonderful & historic building & community space for the community. There is no reason at all for the brewery's concept to use the Wool House other than they've taken a fancy to the building. The use of the building this year as an arts space is proven evidence what a valuable asset the space is to the city compared to what is nothing more than big ideas from the brewery.[/p][/quote]The idea could work in other buildings but in the Woolhouse the idea is fantastic, where would you tather go and eat drink a building built in the last 30 years and has no character or a place with character, history and uniqueness like the woolhouse.[/p][/quote]Exactly. Your plans do sound different to an ordinary chain pub and as they do seem somewhat unique, they would work in other buildings regardless of the surroundings. What you forget is the Wool House isn't just a nice old building with a bit of character, it's one of Southampton's most unique, historic and important buildings and steeped with character. As such a special building, it needs to be kept for as many people as possible to use and enjoy. There is very little culture in the city and the group that were running the Wool House have proven what a success they were in such a short amount of time and how they opened the Wool House to the people of the city and brought them culture. The pub idea although different to your high street chain is still a pub and the city has many different types of drinking establishments. The arts group ticked all the boxes by making the Wool House available to the largest possible audience, gave the people of the city something they were lacking which was their sole intention and they proved what a success they were. The brewery concept as nice as it sounds has profit to put before any culture and access is limited compared to a community space and this is where you differ. As I've made clear, I wish the brewery success as a business and for bringing people to the city but the city cannot lose a community asset at the expense of a private commercial venture. sotonboy84

11:29am Thu 19 Dec 13

sotonboy84 says...

Eco-art wrote:
joehudson wrote:
Eco-art wrote:
joehudson wrote:
Eco-art wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
joehudson wrote:
the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is:
http://www.southampt








on.gov.uk/moderngov/








mgEPetitionDisplay.a








spx?ID=55
(it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.)

If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov.








uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition

Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture:
1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt








on.gov.uk/.../artsco








mplexconstruction...









2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city.
3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business.
4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community.
5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy.



And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign:
Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts?
A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue.

Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event?
A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement.

Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city?
A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that.

Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House?
A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense.

Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed?
A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.
Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?
Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.
I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded.

The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space.

Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future?

Hippy rant over.

*steps off box*
Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself.

It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone.

As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment.

As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.
Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here.

The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton.

Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone.

As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no?
Glad to hear your main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community.

It seems there are two distinct approaches being put forward, of evaluating plans for the Wool House and how they benefit the city.

A. As a cultural asset, with economic benefits.

B. As an economic asset, with cultural benefits.

There is some overlap, as you point out, the Platform Tavern are likely to continue supporting artists and may well make space available for workshops, special events and such like, as many pubs which have the space in Southampton do. Similarly, EA ran a popular cafe downstairs alongside all the cultural activity it supported and promoted.

However, if our main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community, i.e. approach A., then it should be fairly clear that a primary focus on supporting and developing local culture will net the better results. Turning it into a pub (no doubt a very nice one, run by very nice people), the cultural element would have to fit around the business of it being a pub and restaurant. This is how commercial interests get in the way.

As for keeping the Wool House in good condition, if nice, culture supporting people can run a successful pub, then surely a large number of nice, culture supporting people can organize themselves to fix a roof? In fact I know several such people with professional expertize in fixing roofs, and no doubt other Wool House supporters will know more. Where there is a will, and the community comes together, there is a way. There is also the fact that it is a grade 1 listed building, which I believe means government funds and grants are made available for its upkeep, especially where the purpose is for the development of culture.

Maybe it's possible for the Platform Tavern to have a great new venue and for the Wool House to remain as a cultural hub for the community? What about the currently unused, beautiful building that used to be the Ferryman & Firkin? It's a great location surely for a successful pub to move into?

No one has contacted me from Platform Tavern, although the contact details are available on the FB community page 'wool house for the community', and I can be reached from the FB name 'joehuds0n'. I'd be happy to talk.
Hi Joe,

There is potential in your argument that a lovely bunch of people could pull together the resources and skills to do all of this to keep it open as a volunteer run building (although I think you are underestimating the amount of work that is required). I know there is an historic theatre/community hub in Pompey which appears to be doing well. However I think it basically boils down to the fact that no-one did this. The building stood empty for a long time before EA even moved in. They didn't bid when the lease was up because they didn't want to and neither did anyone else with the same idea. No-one applied for funding to save the wool house then. There were only commercial bids (and personally I still believe this is a viable option) and the platform were successful.

I don't know if there is anything you can do about that now so wonder if you should join forces or at least be amenable. From talking to the chaps there I have been told that they contacted you and Sally via Facebook and received no response. Having looked at your page myself I see that you must join the group before you can contact anyone and I'm sure they felt their request to join would not be accepted.

As for the recurring argument of using the ferryman and firkin, the plans were designed around the wool house when it's lease was up and future was uncertain. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have looked elsewhere if it wasn't, but I don't see that the ferryman and firkin would fit with this at all. There is only one level there for public access which would not enable them to have the open plan brewery separate from the event/pub/restaurant

. It may be a possible site but why would they use a building that doesn't suit their plans when a suitable building is available and the only other options that anyone put was an Indian restaurant and tesco express?

I'm just not sure what you are hoping to achieve other than trying to gather a band of people to stand against the business and am not sure you can do much to stop it as every path has been followed. The bidding process is over?
The bidding process is over but that does not guarantee that a planning application will be accepted. I refer to my earlier comment about the Tudor House and more recently the proposal to infill the boating lake at the Sports Centre. These are both examples that when a community works together, their voice is heard and any plans can be changed.

I don't believe the issue is anybody getting together to stand I the way of a business just for the sake of it, it's about retaining a valuable community asset which has a proven record of success and is far more valuable than a private brewery's commercial venture.
[quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eco-art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joehudson[/bold] wrote: the link to the petition for keeping the Wool House for the community and to support local culture and art, and also raise the profile of the city is: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/moderngov/ mgEPetitionDisplay.a spx?ID=55 (it wasn't working for some people, from previous comments, because the link was broken up.) If the link doesn't work by clicking or copying and pasting, go to: www.southampton.gov. uk and navigate to Your Council > Decision making > Council minutes, agendas and reports > Petition Regarding the economic arguments for keeping the Wool House as a hub for local art and culture: 1. Culture is good for the economy. This is well recognized, including by the council: http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/.../artsco mplexconstruction... 2. The council and much of the public recognize that there is significant 'growth potential' lets say, in the cultural aspects of the city. 3. With practically no budget EA managed to attract a lot of people to the Wool House and cover their costs in the first few months of operation, with no subsidy, which is often not the case for a new business. 4. Part of being 'sustainable' is also being 'sustaining'. That's what support of accessible and inclusive local culture is - sustaining and strengthening of the community. 5. On purely economic terms a popular cultural hub, one of very few in the city, is arguable more sustainable than another pub, one of very many in the city. It may be a very nice and popular pub, but it is already a relatively saturated market, leading towards zero-sum competitive conditions. Thus cultural investments are likely to lead to more economic growth, because it is a less saturated market, with demonstrable demand. Popular cultural investments attract more visitors and lead to more people staying in the area, where they will spend money, helping the local economy. And here's a mini FAQ about the campaign: Q. How is this campaign to keep the Wool House for the community connected to Element Arts? A. It's not. The campaign is totally separate from EA and is comprised of people who have enjoyed and benefited from what they've done at the Wool House, and want to see it continue. Q. Wasn't the arts and culture project at the Wool House only intended to be a temporary pop-up event? A. That was the initial understanding. But due to the popularity and success of the pop-up project, the idea, by popular demand, arose of making it a more permanent arrangement. Q. Who would run the Wool House, if it were to continue as a centre for local culture and arts in the city? A. My understanding is that EA would be interested in going forward with it on a longer term basis, and that this would be sustainable, should the council approve. Contact them for more info on that. Q. Isn't there going to be an big arts complex opening in the city centre, why is there a need for more arts and culture at the Wool House? A. The officially given opening date for the Arts Complex is sometime in 2016, and it will no doubt have its own character and emphasis when it does open. As the council themselves recognize, culture brings in visitors in a way that purely commercial ventures don't, which is good for the local economy and the standing of the city. It also attracts funding from Arts Council England. Thus to also support strong cultural developments in the Wool House makes good sense from every angle, in the same way that having more than one park in Southampton, or more than one hospital makes good sense. Q. What stage is the pub project at, has a final agreement been signed? A.Uncertain. There is a meeting with the council about it on the 21st Jan. Please sign and share the petition before then.[/p][/quote]Please stop with teferring tonitvas just another pub, it will be a unique venue one that will attract foodies and real ale fans from far and wide, they will come and stay in hotels spend money in shops when they make a time of it at the woolhouse micro brewery and restaurant. It's not just a pub. Also what's with the Z's?[/p][/quote]Good luck to you and your pub, which you know so much about. I wish you all success and for bringing people to the city but in an alternative venue and not at the expense of losing the Wool House as a community space.[/p][/quote]I can't help but feel that this has all been blown out of proportion. The important thing here is that the building is repaired and cared for. The roof is damaged and water getting into the building will damage the beautiful beams and what remains of the original interior features. A voluntary art group nor the council are able to foot the bill for the amount of work required. Saving the wool house should refer to saving the building above all things for future generations. We should be fighting for our heritage not amongst ourselves. My understanding is that art WILL be displayed in the wool house as part of the dancing man's plans as will artefacts borrowed from the council which are normally hidden away in their stores. I believe that Element Arts and the group who have started the petition were both contacted to discuss working together but both have either declined or not responded. The plans also include building a lift to the upper floor to give disabled people access that they have never had in order for it to be an inclusive space. Why does it have to come down to egos and people feeling they have to fight all time? Surely the whole point of community is to stick together for a shared goal? Why not accept the contact that has been made and work together as a community to ensure that we preserve what heritage we have left in the city for the future? Hippy rant over. *steps off box*[/p][/quote]Again, the campaign for the Wool House to remain a space for local art and culture is naturally a separate thing from Element Arts. The campaign is simply a public response in support of what Element Arts have done with the Wool House and a expression of the strong desire to see the much needed and appreciated support of culture continue. I do not see how ego issues come into it. This is simply the public response you would surely expect to see on such an issue expressing itself. It is about much more than just displaying a few paintings. Many people, families and children have enjoyed a wide variety of events and workshops at the Wool House. There is always room for improvement (as you mention a lift for those in wheel chairs), but as a pop-up art space the Wool House was extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone. As for what could be afforded going forward to keep the Wool House in a state of good repair, it's a good question. I like your idea of the community coming together to make it happen. Anything is possible then. It would be great if people fought less. Unfortunately, commercial interests often get in the way. It's what always happens when you put profit ahead of people. Given that we live in a market based economy though, it's usually necessary to come up with a commercially viable plan. My understanding is that EA have one of those, and as already detailed, genuinely popular culture is a very sound economic investment. As someone who evidently values culture I hope you will be a part of the community coming together to support it.[/p][/quote]Absolutely! I will support what I personally feel is right for southampton, it's heritage, art, community and future. I apologise if my comment about egos came across as a reference to EA. It wasn't meant to. The work that they did was fabulous and I understand that yours and others arguments are in favour of bringing culture to the city. However, I don't believe that commercial interests are getting in the way here. The owners of the brewery seem like a really nice local bunch who own a business nearby. They have been there for a long time and have done great things with the historic building they occupy. They are 'arty' people too and come across as very approachable. I have spoken with them about their plans and believe in what they say. If as much energy was out into communicating with them and assisting to make this a successful enterprise it would be a great victory for the people of southampton. Profit must come into such a project and it would be ignorant to think that a project as large as keeping the wool house in good repair could be achieved by will alone. As for holding workshops and events there, the upstairs area as it is planned to be used would be ideal for this to continue. So why give them the cold shoulder and not respond to their request for contact. It seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss this. Has anyone asked? Has anyone said no?[/p][/quote]Glad to hear your main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community. It seems there are two distinct approaches being put forward, of evaluating plans for the Wool House and how they benefit the city. A. As a cultural asset, with economic benefits. B. As an economic asset, with cultural benefits. There is some overlap, as you point out, the Platform Tavern are likely to continue supporting artists and may well make space available for workshops, special events and such like, as many pubs which have the space in Southampton do. Similarly, EA ran a popular cafe downstairs alongside all the cultural activity it supported and promoted. However, if our main concern here is for the development of culture, art and heritage for the community, i.e. approach A., then it should be fairly clear that a primary focus on supporting and developing local culture will net the better results. Turning it into a pub (no doubt a very nice one, run by very nice people), the cultural element would have to fit around the business of it being a pub and restaurant. This is how commercial interests get in the way. As for keeping the Wool House in good condition, if nice, culture supporting people can run a successful pub, then surely a large number of nice, culture supporting people can organize themselves to fix a roof? In fact I know several such people with professional expertize in fixing roofs, and no doubt other Wool House supporters will know more. Where there is a will, and the community comes together, there is a way. There is also the fact that it is a grade 1 listed building, which I believe means government funds and grants are made available for its upkeep, especially where the purpose is for the development of culture. Maybe it's possible for the Platform Tavern to have a great new venue and for the Wool House to remain as a cultural hub for the community? What about the currently unused, beautiful building that used to be the Ferryman & Firkin? It's a great location surely for a successful pub to move into? No one