Family react to acquittal of driver in fatal cyclist crash case

Daily Echo: Family react to acquittal of driver in fatal cyclist crash case Family react to acquittal of driver in fatal cyclist crash case

IT was the fatal road smash that brought Southampton to a standstill.

Yesterday the mini bus driver at the centre of the rush hour crash walked free from court after being cleared of killing cyclist David Irving.

Steven Petterson, claimed bright sunlight causing a glare on the wet road meant he simply did not see rider Mr Irving before hitting him in Mountbatten Way.

A jury found the 38-year-old, Waterhouse Lane, not guilty of causing death by careless driving after an eight-day trial at Southampton Crown Court.

The ten men and two women took nearly eight hours of deliberations to acquit him of killing the father of two from Wimborne, Dorset, who is one of triplets.

One of Mr Irving's sisters sobbed in the public gallery as their verdict was read out.

Outside the court his older brother Nick, 56, said: “David was a healthy and active person.

“He was a loved and dedicated father to two teenage daughters.

“He was a very keen cyclist and was very sporty, competent and fit and is missed by all the family.”

The IT consultant fell from his red Giant bike after he was in collision with the youth worker's white Ford Transit minibus.

It happened on the three-lane dual carriageway on the morning of December 17, 2012.

Moments later he was ran over by a Mercedes and died at the scene from multiple head and body injuries.

Mr Petterson claimed bright sunlight prevented him from seeing the rider -who was wearing a high visibility jacket, an LED anklet and lights on his bike.

Barrister Mark Florida-James, for Mr Petterson, said outside court: “This case is very tragic.

“There are no winners or losers.

“Mr Petterson is very sorry for what has happened and it just shows how hazardous driving is.”

The driver - who was on his way to pick up his step-daughter and take her to school - initially heard a bang after joining the carriageway from Waterhouse Lane.

His wing mirror snap against the side of his vehicle and he immediately pulled into a layby to check for obstacles in the road.

He recalled seeing a flash of red, assumed he hit a bus stop post and called his father, who lives nearby to investigate.

He made a panic-stricken 999 call after realising there had been an accident admitting he had hit someone.

After being arrested he told police he was driving within the speed limit but had been blinded by the low sun, despite wearing prescription sun glasses and having his sun visor down.

Mr Irving, had driven from his home to Totton, before continuing to Southampton city centre by bike.

He suffered a catalogue of injuries including 38 rib fractures, punctured lungs and multiple facial fractures.

Comments (46)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

7:50am Thu 30 Jan 14

boxing_nut says...

Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.
Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times. boxing_nut

8:14am Thu 30 Jan 14

MrBurntYoghurt says...

I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.
I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can. MrBurntYoghurt

8:40am Thu 30 Jan 14

Forest Resident says...

MrBurntYoghurt wrote:
I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.
Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care.
[quote][p][bold]MrBurntYoghurt[/bold] wrote: I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.[/p][/quote]Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care. Forest Resident

8:49am Thu 30 Jan 14

downfader says...

MrBurntYoghurt wrote:
I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.
Its not the most ideal road being an urban motorway but there are 2 things worth taking into account:

- legally riders can still use said strip of road (as they can most dual carriageways)
- the alternatives involve a detour and if from out of town, some length research to find the cycle route over a mile around. If you just rode in following road signs you'd never know it was there. Even if you did end up on it parts of it are under threat from HGV access, potholes, poor road/path surfacing, pedestrians that still think the shared sections are pedestrian only....

...a better solution is needed.
[quote][p][bold]MrBurntYoghurt[/bold] wrote: I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.[/p][/quote]Its not the most ideal road being an urban motorway but there are 2 things worth taking into account: - legally riders can still use said strip of road (as they can most dual carriageways) - the alternatives involve a detour and if from out of town, some length research to find the cycle route over a mile around. If you just rode in following road signs you'd never know it was there. Even if you did end up on it parts of it are under threat from HGV access, potholes, poor road/path surfacing, pedestrians that still think the shared sections are pedestrian only.... ...a better solution is needed. downfader

9:01am Thu 30 Jan 14

Urbane Forager says...

I would not make any judgement on this case at all but I am a regular cyclist who also drives. My sympathy goes out to poor David's family.

I think the lesson here is that if you cannot see clearly, you must slow down or stop.

If you cannot see a cyclist wearing hi vis and lights, you would not see a pedestrian, motorcyclist, car or stray animal; in fact you would not notice a bend in the road and could leave the highway.

A driver feels safer in a car than a cyclist who is much more vulnerable. A car driver may think that a gap of one metre is safe but at a combined speed of 30 + mph this would be very dangerous for a cyclist.

Cyclists often have to move out suddenly or swerve to avoid pot holes, sunken drains or detritus that would damage their bike or cause them to fall off.

Cyclists probably need a gap of at least two metres depending on the speed and road, but are rarely allowed this much space. However, until suitable alternatives or cycle paths are created, we all have to use the roads together.

Yesterday in West End high street (opposite the hospital) at about 8.00 am., 3 consecutive cars pulled out from behind a stationary double decker at a bus stop; they all drove straight at me, on the wrong side of the carriageway, as I cycled toward Hedge End. I used my horn each time, it is VERY LOUD, my bike is covered in reflective tape, I have lights etc. I know the drivers all saw me but they still chose to endanger my life. The wing mirror of the last car struck me, that's how close it was...

West End does have a "theoretical" shared pavement cycle path but it is totally unsuitable for any cyclist that travels at speeds over 5 mph (unless they were on a mountain bike and liked running pedestrians over). Sustrans have a definition of what a cycle path, shared or otherwise should be like and they would never count this as remotely suitable for cycling.
I would not make any judgement on this case at all but I am a regular cyclist who also drives. My sympathy goes out to poor David's family. I think the lesson here is that if you cannot see clearly, you must slow down or stop. If you cannot see a cyclist wearing hi vis and lights, you would not see a pedestrian, motorcyclist, car or stray animal; in fact you would not notice a bend in the road and could leave the highway. A driver feels safer in a car than a cyclist who is much more vulnerable. A car driver may think that a gap of one metre is safe but at a combined speed of 30 + mph this would be very dangerous for a cyclist. Cyclists often have to move out suddenly or swerve to avoid pot holes, sunken drains or detritus that would damage their bike or cause them to fall off. Cyclists probably need a gap of at least two metres depending on the speed and road, but are rarely allowed this much space. However, until suitable alternatives or cycle paths are created, we all have to use the roads together. Yesterday in West End high street (opposite the hospital) at about 8.00 am., 3 consecutive cars pulled out from behind a stationary double decker at a bus stop; they all drove straight at me, on the wrong side of the carriageway, as I cycled toward Hedge End. I used my horn each time, it is VERY LOUD, my bike is covered in reflective tape, I have lights etc. I know the drivers all saw me but they still chose to endanger my life. The wing mirror of the last car struck me, that's how close it was... West End does have a "theoretical" shared pavement cycle path but it is totally unsuitable for any cyclist that travels at speeds over 5 mph (unless they were on a mountain bike and liked running pedestrians over). Sustrans have a definition of what a cycle path, shared or otherwise should be like and they would never count this as remotely suitable for cycling. Urbane Forager

9:17am Thu 30 Jan 14

gilbertratchet says...

Forest Resident wrote:
MrBurntYoghurt wrote:
I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.
Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care.
We mustn't make lockable doors, we simply need to force burglars to be less burglar-like.
[quote][p][bold]Forest Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrBurntYoghurt[/bold] wrote: I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.[/p][/quote]Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care.[/p][/quote]We mustn't make lockable doors, we simply need to force burglars to be less burglar-like. gilbertratchet

9:22am Thu 30 Jan 14

downfader says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
Forest Resident wrote:
MrBurntYoghurt wrote:
I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.
Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care.
We mustn't make lockable doors, we simply need to force burglars to be less burglar-like.
In a way, yes.
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Forest Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrBurntYoghurt[/bold] wrote: I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.[/p][/quote]Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care.[/p][/quote]We mustn't make lockable doors, we simply need to force burglars to be less burglar-like.[/p][/quote]In a way, yes. downfader

9:26am Thu 30 Jan 14

timessquare says...

I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving.

Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't.

With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty! timessquare

9:49am Thu 30 Jan 14

RichPH says...

I wonder is juries consider the implications of what they're deciding.

Simple facts are a cyclist acting entirely lawfully and correctly was hit and killed.

Drivers have a responsibility not to hit and kill cyclists.

There was glare, but other motorists had coped and not hit and killed the cyclist.

If the jury thinks that there was nothing careless in hitting and killing sometone when it was clearly and demonstrably avoidable, and that in fact the driver did nothing wrong at all, then they must have very low expectations of survival when they're on the roads themselves.

Maybe the driver is a lovely person. So what? That doesn't imply competence.
I wonder is juries consider the implications of what they're deciding. Simple facts are a cyclist acting entirely lawfully and correctly was hit and killed. Drivers have a responsibility not to hit and kill cyclists. There was glare, but other motorists had coped and not hit and killed the cyclist. If the jury thinks that there was nothing careless in hitting and killing sometone when it was clearly and demonstrably avoidable, and that in fact the driver did nothing wrong at all, then they must have very low expectations of survival when they're on the roads themselves. Maybe the driver is a lovely person. So what? That doesn't imply competence. RichPH

9:59am Thu 30 Jan 14

sotonbusdriver says...

boxing_nut wrote:
Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.
As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too...

But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way???

As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened.

It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect...

The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.
[quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.[/p][/quote]As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too... But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way??? As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened. It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect... The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries. sotonbusdriver

10:04am Thu 30 Jan 14

Forest Resident says...

Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.
Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first. Forest Resident

10:10am Thu 30 Jan 14

Richard 51 says...

Motorist won - cyclist nil
Van driver killed cyclist, there can be no other verdict.
Condolences to family and friends RIP
Motorist won - cyclist nil Van driver killed cyclist, there can be no other verdict. Condolences to family and friends RIP Richard 51

10:10am Thu 30 Jan 14

timessquare says...

Forest Resident wrote:
Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.
As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation.
[quote][p][bold]Forest Resident[/bold] wrote: Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.[/p][/quote]As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation. timessquare

10:20am Thu 30 Jan 14

teamgreen says...

timessquare wrote:
Forest Resident wrote:
Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.
As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation.
we all pay road tax its in the council tax.it is not law to use the cycle path,as a example the shared path into town down the avenue, the cycle path is used by dog walkers runners with ear phones and as a car park near the pizza place. the van driver knocked the cyclist off his bike into the path of a on coming car so yes he did help kill the cyclist.as for the comment he was coming up on the inside how could the van hit the rider if the rider was moving and the van not ?
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Forest Resident[/bold] wrote: Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.[/p][/quote]As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation.[/p][/quote]we all pay road tax its in the council tax.it is not law to use the cycle path,as a example the shared path into town down the avenue, the cycle path is used by dog walkers runners with ear phones and as a car park near the pizza place. the van driver knocked the cyclist off his bike into the path of a on coming car so yes he did help kill the cyclist.as for the comment he was coming up on the inside how could the van hit the rider if the rider was moving and the van not ? teamgreen

10:24am Thu 30 Jan 14

Forest Resident says...

timessquare wrote:
Forest Resident wrote:
Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.
As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation.
What has road tax got to do with anything? It's a pollution tax ONLY, neither hybrid car drivers or cyclists pay it, it bears no relevance at all to a lawful entitlement to use a road. Cycle paths are NOT suitable for use by cyclists travelling at or above 15mph as defined by DfT and Police national guidelines, common sense dictates travelling on a road at that speed is far safer and as a cyclist you are far more visible (though apparently not in this sad instance). Furthermore, as a cyclist who rides into Southampton almost daily I have every idea of this situation and what is the safest approach, thank you.
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Forest Resident[/bold] wrote: Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.[/p][/quote]As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation.[/p][/quote]What has road tax got to do with anything? It's a pollution tax ONLY, neither hybrid car drivers or cyclists pay it, it bears no relevance at all to a lawful entitlement to use a road. Cycle paths are NOT suitable for use by cyclists travelling at or above 15mph as defined by DfT and Police national guidelines, common sense dictates travelling on a road at that speed is far safer and as a cyclist you are far more visible (though apparently not in this sad instance). Furthermore, as a cyclist who rides into Southampton almost daily I have every idea of this situation and what is the safest approach, thank you. Forest Resident

10:29am Thu 30 Jan 14

bigfella777 says...

timessquare wrote:
I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving.

Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't.

With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
There are 2 things I cannot understand. When he pulled over how could he not see what was happening back up the road, I believe 2 more vehicles tragically ran over Mr Irving, surely the traffic must of been coming to a halt, I can only assume because it is over the brow of the bridge in a blind spot.
The main thing is the call to his father, so he thought he had clipped a sign of some sort and then apparently asked his father to go out in his car and check along the road for damaged signs? Seriously? Would most people do this, it just doesn't make sense to me,presumably the police checked his phone and wanted to know what the call was about, I am only going on what I have read.
I also know somebody who hit a cyclist on the A27 between Portsmouth and Havant in blinding sun this also ended tragically and he did not know what he had hit either.
I ride from the City Centre to Solent Business Centre regularly, personally I would never go this way, I use Millbrook rd East but then I have to cross the busy Paynes rd by the church somehow and then ride down the pavement which everyone is always complaining about but there is no provision for cyclists there.
I would also say that there are a lot of people doing a lot more than 50 on this road as you can see when the brake lights come on at the cameras, there is just no need for it, make the road 30 mph now, it's not motorway.
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]There are 2 things I cannot understand. When he pulled over how could he not see what was happening back up the road, I believe 2 more vehicles tragically ran over Mr Irving, surely the traffic must of been coming to a halt, I can only assume because it is over the brow of the bridge in a blind spot. The main thing is the call to his father, so he thought he had clipped a sign of some sort and then apparently asked his father to go out in his car and check along the road for damaged signs? Seriously? Would most people do this, it just doesn't make sense to me,presumably the police checked his phone and wanted to know what the call was about, I am only going on what I have read. I also know somebody who hit a cyclist on the A27 between Portsmouth and Havant in blinding sun this also ended tragically and he did not know what he had hit either. I ride from the City Centre to Solent Business Centre regularly, personally I would never go this way, I use Millbrook rd East but then I have to cross the busy Paynes rd by the church somehow and then ride down the pavement which everyone is always complaining about but there is no provision for cyclists there. I would also say that there are a lot of people doing a lot more than 50 on this road as you can see when the brake lights come on at the cameras, there is just no need for it, make the road 30 mph now, it's not motorway. bigfella777

11:14am Thu 30 Jan 14

espanuel says...

A lot of comments being made, so most of you would have been on the jury to make your comments and decide factors resulting in this accident. Up and coming lawyers and judges. I am not taking sides who was right or wrong just making a view of this forum.
A lot of comments being made, so most of you would have been on the jury to make your comments and decide factors resulting in this accident. Up and coming lawyers and judges. I am not taking sides who was right or wrong just making a view of this forum. espanuel

11:34am Thu 30 Jan 14

downfader says...

Once again some people are presuming 2 things.

- that the cycle path (really just a stop start pavement route) was known
- that the rider doesnt have a right to the road.

I'll say it again. You can disagree with this all you like, or you could actually contact the council and police and ask that things be improved VASTLY so that it never happens again.

How many of you have the balls to do something positive about this?
Once again some people are presuming 2 things. - that the cycle path (really just a stop start pavement route) was known - that the rider doesnt have a right to the road. I'll say it again. You can disagree with this all you like, or you could actually contact the council and police and ask that things be improved VASTLY so that it never happens again. How many of you have the balls to do something positive about this? downfader

11:42am Thu 30 Jan 14

Inform Al says...

RichPH wrote:
I wonder is juries consider the implications of what they're deciding.

Simple facts are a cyclist acting entirely lawfully and correctly was hit and killed.

Drivers have a responsibility not to hit and kill cyclists.

There was glare, but other motorists had coped and not hit and killed the cyclist.

If the jury thinks that there was nothing careless in hitting and killing sometone when it was clearly and demonstrably avoidable, and that in fact the driver did nothing wrong at all, then they must have very low expectations of survival when they're on the roads themselves.

Maybe the driver is a lovely person. So what? That doesn't imply competence.
It seems to me that this jury actually live on my planet, Earth. Accidemts are just that, accidents and a sudden glare can adversely affect a driver no matter how carefully he is driving and stopping in such conditions can, and has, reulted in being shunted from the rear. I suspect the driver slowed as otherweise the jury would have had to find him guilty by not abiding by the highway code leading to at least a conviction for careless driving. I have not driven along that road for some time now, but if there is no cycle path I would consider that to be a criminal defficiency by the authority.
[quote][p][bold]RichPH[/bold] wrote: I wonder is juries consider the implications of what they're deciding. Simple facts are a cyclist acting entirely lawfully and correctly was hit and killed. Drivers have a responsibility not to hit and kill cyclists. There was glare, but other motorists had coped and not hit and killed the cyclist. If the jury thinks that there was nothing careless in hitting and killing sometone when it was clearly and demonstrably avoidable, and that in fact the driver did nothing wrong at all, then they must have very low expectations of survival when they're on the roads themselves. Maybe the driver is a lovely person. So what? That doesn't imply competence.[/p][/quote]It seems to me that this jury actually live on my planet, Earth. Accidemts are just that, accidents and a sudden glare can adversely affect a driver no matter how carefully he is driving and stopping in such conditions can, and has, reulted in being shunted from the rear. I suspect the driver slowed as otherweise the jury would have had to find him guilty by not abiding by the highway code leading to at least a conviction for careless driving. I have not driven along that road for some time now, but if there is no cycle path I would consider that to be a criminal defficiency by the authority. Inform Al

11:45am Thu 30 Jan 14

Torchie1 says...

espanuel wrote:
A lot of comments being made, so most of you would have been on the jury to make your comments and decide factors resulting in this accident. Up and coming lawyers and judges. I am not taking sides who was right or wrong just making a view of this forum.
The cornerstone of justice in the UK is the jury system but some people on this forum didn't need to see any of the evidence that the court needed eight days to listen to, but used the simple argument of cyclist always rights, motorist always wrong. As usual the armchair generals are enjoying a field day with their personal interpretation of events without knowing anything more than the few brief facts presented by the media. It was a tragic accident, they happen, they will continue to happen but hopefully not in the same way at the same place. Three or four years ago a cyclist coming to work on the refinery at Fawley ran full tilt in to a new barrier put across the road to prevent traffic entering a plant area. Around seven o clock in the morning he was blinded by the low rising sun and the accident crippled him. No-one is infallible.
[quote][p][bold]espanuel[/bold] wrote: A lot of comments being made, so most of you would have been on the jury to make your comments and decide factors resulting in this accident. Up and coming lawyers and judges. I am not taking sides who was right or wrong just making a view of this forum.[/p][/quote]The cornerstone of justice in the UK is the jury system but some people on this forum didn't need to see any of the evidence that the court needed eight days to listen to, but used the simple argument of cyclist always rights, motorist always wrong. As usual the armchair generals are enjoying a field day with their personal interpretation of events without knowing anything more than the few brief facts presented by the media. It was a tragic accident, they happen, they will continue to happen but hopefully not in the same way at the same place. Three or four years ago a cyclist coming to work on the refinery at Fawley ran full tilt in to a new barrier put across the road to prevent traffic entering a plant area. Around seven o clock in the morning he was blinded by the low rising sun and the accident crippled him. No-one is infallible. Torchie1

11:47am Thu 30 Jan 14

espanuel says...

downfader wrote:
Once again some people are presuming 2 things. - that the cycle path (really just a stop start pavement route) was known - that the rider doesnt have a right to the road. I'll say it again. You can disagree with this all you like, or you could actually contact the council and police and ask that things be improved VASTLY so that it never happens again. How many of you have the balls to do something positive about this?
It wont happen, I dont disagree with you. Human nature says I disagree but I'm not going to do anything about it. Only if it involves THEM.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: Once again some people are presuming 2 things. - that the cycle path (really just a stop start pavement route) was known - that the rider doesnt have a right to the road. I'll say it again. You can disagree with this all you like, or you could actually contact the council and police and ask that things be improved VASTLY so that it never happens again. How many of you have the balls to do something positive about this?[/p][/quote]It wont happen, I dont disagree with you. Human nature says I disagree but I'm not going to do anything about it. Only if it involves THEM. espanuel

11:53am Thu 30 Jan 14

gilbertratchet says...

downfader wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
Forest Resident wrote:
MrBurntYoghurt wrote:
I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.
Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care.
We mustn't make lockable doors, we simply need to force burglars to be less burglar-like.
In a way, yes.
Can't we do both simultaneously?
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Forest Resident[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrBurntYoghurt[/bold] wrote: I'm in no way defending the idiocy of this gentleman for thinking he'd hit a bus stop, However, Mountbatten way isn't the safest place to take two wheels. Especially since it's a 50mph dual carriageway notorious for road traffic accidents. Just because you are a safe rider, it doesn't aid you in judging the actions of other people . Please, if you cycle... just try and be safe, and avoid this stretch altogether if you can.[/p][/quote]Roads are not dangerous, they are inanimate strips of Tarmac. Incompetent drivers who continue travelling forward despite not having clear vision of what is in front of them however are indeed sadly lethal. This tragic death should not be allowed to make any road a 'no go' area for cyclists, drivers simply need to take more care.[/p][/quote]We mustn't make lockable doors, we simply need to force burglars to be less burglar-like.[/p][/quote]In a way, yes.[/p][/quote]Can't we do both simultaneously? gilbertratchet

12:01pm Thu 30 Jan 14

espanuel says...

Torchie1 wrote:
espanuel wrote: A lot of comments being made, so most of you would have been on the jury to make your comments and decide factors resulting in this accident. Up and coming lawyers and judges. I am not taking sides who was right or wrong just making a view of this forum.
The cornerstone of justice in the UK is the jury system but some people on this forum didn't need to see any of the evidence that the court needed eight days to listen to, but used the simple argument of cyclist always rights, motorist always wrong. As usual the armchair generals are enjoying a field day with their personal interpretation of events without knowing anything more than the few brief facts presented by the media. It was a tragic accident, they happen, they will continue to happen but hopefully not in the same way at the same place. Three or four years ago a cyclist coming to work on the refinery at Fawley ran full tilt in to a new barrier put across the road to prevent traffic entering a plant area. Around seven o clock in the morning he was blinded by the low rising sun and the accident crippled him. No-one is infallible.
How many times in the Refinery when barriers are down (and for a reason) that people go under them or round them, they say to themselve's i'm immune nothing will happen to me. I do know as I worked on the Cat plant for 33 years. And the same thing happens outside ie nobody is looking lets go for it sod the sign.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]espanuel[/bold] wrote: A lot of comments being made, so most of you would have been on the jury to make your comments and decide factors resulting in this accident. Up and coming lawyers and judges. I am not taking sides who was right or wrong just making a view of this forum.[/p][/quote]The cornerstone of justice in the UK is the jury system but some people on this forum didn't need to see any of the evidence that the court needed eight days to listen to, but used the simple argument of cyclist always rights, motorist always wrong. As usual the armchair generals are enjoying a field day with their personal interpretation of events without knowing anything more than the few brief facts presented by the media. It was a tragic accident, they happen, they will continue to happen but hopefully not in the same way at the same place. Three or four years ago a cyclist coming to work on the refinery at Fawley ran full tilt in to a new barrier put across the road to prevent traffic entering a plant area. Around seven o clock in the morning he was blinded by the low rising sun and the accident crippled him. No-one is infallible.[/p][/quote]How many times in the Refinery when barriers are down (and for a reason) that people go under them or round them, they say to themselve's i'm immune nothing will happen to me. I do know as I worked on the Cat plant for 33 years. And the same thing happens outside ie nobody is looking lets go for it sod the sign. espanuel

1:02pm Thu 30 Jan 14

boxing_nut says...

sotonbusdriver wrote:
boxing_nut wrote:
Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.
As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too...

But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way???

As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened.

It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect...

The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.
What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time.
[quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.[/p][/quote]As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too... But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way??? As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened. It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect... The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.[/p][/quote]What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time. boxing_nut

1:25pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Ginger_cyclist says...

timessquare wrote:
I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving.

Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't.

With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
It drives me insane when I see cyclists on the path when they're on ROAD vehicles, also, cycle paths are often more dangerous than the road, just look at how often pedestrians are hit when crosing the road.
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]It drives me insane when I see cyclists on the path when they're on ROAD vehicles, also, cycle paths are often more dangerous than the road, just look at how often pedestrians are hit when crosing the road. Ginger_cyclist

1:28pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Ginger_cyclist says...

timessquare wrote:
Forest Resident wrote:
Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.
As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation.
No one pays road tax and cycle paths/lanes make things more dangerous for us.
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Forest Resident[/bold] wrote: Hark at the killers mate bleating his anti cyclist bigotry and ignorance of basic national guidelines surrounding the use of cycle paths, cyclists are not second class citizens, we are just ordinary people trying to get somewhere, that is if dangerous, inconsiderate, incompetent drivers don't mow us down first.[/p][/quote]As a cyclist myself I have to disagree with your (somewhat incoherent) comments. No one is saying we are second class citizens. Just use some common sense! IF THERE IS A CYCLE PATH USE IT!!! We don't pay road tax, we are given paths to make it safer and still people refuse to use them. No one is saying its the cyclists fault, its an awful situation. But the mini bus driver has been cleaed of the charges so please don't start shouting your mouth off when you clearly have no idea of the situtation.[/p][/quote]No one pays road tax and cycle paths/lanes make things more dangerous for us. Ginger_cyclist

1:38pm Thu 30 Jan 14

kiddynamite says...

Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!!
Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!! kiddynamite

1:50pm Thu 30 Jan 14

timessquare says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
timessquare wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
It drives me insane when I see cyclists on the path when they're on ROAD vehicles, also, cycle paths are often more dangerous than the road, just look at how often pedestrians are hit when crosing the road.
More dangerous because you don't pay attention to what is ahead of you? I fail to see how you think that it is safer to be on the road then on a cycle path. Like I said, I ride my bike every single day of the year and where there is a path I will use it. Yes, I might have to go slower than I would on the road but I would rather that then be knocked off my bike. If there isn't a cycle path then obviously using the road is a safer option. I just think that if more people used the cycle paths then there would be less accidents. This my personal opinion and nothing anyone says will change that. I clearly am on my own with that opinion because so many of you seem to think the complete opposite and to be honest I couldn't really care less. I know I am safer on the cycle paths.
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]It drives me insane when I see cyclists on the path when they're on ROAD vehicles, also, cycle paths are often more dangerous than the road, just look at how often pedestrians are hit when crosing the road.[/p][/quote]More dangerous because you don't pay attention to what is ahead of you? I fail to see how you think that it is safer to be on the road then on a cycle path. Like I said, I ride my bike every single day of the year and where there is a path I will use it. Yes, I might have to go slower than I would on the road but I would rather that then be knocked off my bike. If there isn't a cycle path then obviously using the road is a safer option. I just think that if more people used the cycle paths then there would be less accidents. This my personal opinion and nothing anyone says will change that. I clearly am on my own with that opinion because so many of you seem to think the complete opposite and to be honest I couldn't really care less. I know I am safer on the cycle paths. timessquare

1:57pm Thu 30 Jan 14

gilbertratchet says...

kiddynamite wrote:
Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!!
Someone is always losing their life. Does this mean we stop discussing everything, ever, and just dole out meaningless platitudes?
[quote][p][bold]kiddynamite[/bold] wrote: Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!![/p][/quote]Someone is always losing their life. Does this mean we stop discussing everything, ever, and just dole out meaningless platitudes? gilbertratchet

2:04pm Thu 30 Jan 14

kiddynamite says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
kiddynamite wrote:
Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!!
Someone is always losing their life. Does this mean we stop discussing everything, ever, and just dole out meaningless platitudes?
Absolutely not. just be respectful!
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kiddynamite[/bold] wrote: Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!![/p][/quote]Someone is always losing their life. Does this mean we stop discussing everything, ever, and just dole out meaningless platitudes?[/p][/quote]Absolutely not. just be respectful! kiddynamite

2:21pm Thu 30 Jan 14

elvisimo says...

timessquare wrote:
I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving.

Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't.

With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
that is probably about as stupid a comment as it is possible to make.
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]that is probably about as stupid a comment as it is possible to make. elvisimo

2:24pm Thu 30 Jan 14

timessquare says...

elvisimo wrote:
timessquare wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
that is probably about as stupid a comment as it is possible to make.
Please do tell me why??
[quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]that is probably about as stupid a comment as it is possible to make.[/p][/quote]Please do tell me why?? timessquare

2:28pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Jesus_02 says...

timessquare wrote:
I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
Your comment starts well but finished predictably by blaiming "cyclists". Bad motorists are not fined for driving/parking on the path, double yellows, ziz- zags ect...but I dont pretend that doesnt mitigate poor cycling or any other poor or illegal activity.

At the end of the day David has been aquited and we have to trust in the process. I would offer sympathy to all those involved and leave it at that.
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]Your comment starts well but finished predictably by blaiming "cyclists". Bad motorists are not fined for driving/parking on the path, double yellows, ziz- zags ect...but I dont pretend that doesnt mitigate poor cycling or any other poor or illegal activity. At the end of the day David has been aquited and we have to trust in the process. I would offer sympathy to all those involved and leave it at that. Jesus_02

2:36pm Thu 30 Jan 14

timessquare says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
timessquare wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
Your comment starts well but finished predictably by blaiming "cyclists". Bad motorists are not fined for driving/parking on the path, double yellows, ziz- zags ect...but I dont pretend that doesnt mitigate poor cycling or any other poor or illegal activity. At the end of the day David has been aquited and we have to trust in the process. I would offer sympathy to all those involved and leave it at that.
I am not blaming cyclists, if you'd continued reading, you would see I cycle every day. It is a personal opinion on what I think is safe. It was in response to something else that someone else said about cycle paths and had nothing to do with Steven, hence the separate paragraph.

I agree with you about blaming people. It's not right nor fair. I am debating cycle paths not the case.
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]Your comment starts well but finished predictably by blaiming "cyclists". Bad motorists are not fined for driving/parking on the path, double yellows, ziz- zags ect...but I dont pretend that doesnt mitigate poor cycling or any other poor or illegal activity. At the end of the day David has been aquited and we have to trust in the process. I would offer sympathy to all those involved and leave it at that.[/p][/quote]I am not blaming cyclists, if you'd continued reading, you would see I cycle every day. It is a personal opinion on what I think is safe. It was in response to something else that someone else said about cycle paths and had nothing to do with Steven, hence the separate paragraph. I agree with you about blaming people. It's not right nor fair. I am debating cycle paths not the case. timessquare

3:15pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Ginger_cyclist says...

timessquare wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
timessquare wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty!
It drives me insane when I see cyclists on the path when they're on ROAD vehicles, also, cycle paths are often more dangerous than the road, just look at how often pedestrians are hit when crosing the road.
More dangerous because you don't pay attention to what is ahead of you? I fail to see how you think that it is safer to be on the road then on a cycle path. Like I said, I ride my bike every single day of the year and where there is a path I will use it. Yes, I might have to go slower than I would on the road but I would rather that then be knocked off my bike. If there isn't a cycle path then obviously using the road is a safer option. I just think that if more people used the cycle paths then there would be less accidents. This my personal opinion and nothing anyone says will change that. I clearly am on my own with that opinion because so many of you seem to think the complete opposite and to be honest I couldn't really care less. I know I am safer on the cycle paths.
No, I pay plenty of attention to what's ahead, it's drivers that often lack such attention, it is safer to be on the road to be more visible, make it more likely to be seen, cycle paths also often cross driveways and go round the outside of roundabouts where motorists don't expect a vehicle to be, they ae also often in severe disrepair, this is why, until proper, safe, cycle infrastructure and a decent amount of money spent on it become a thing, I will keep exercising my LEGAL RIGHT to use the road.
[quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]timessquare[/bold] wrote: I know the gentleman who knocked David off his bike. He is heartbroken by what has happened and has become a shadow of his former self. This does not mean that I don't feel anything for David and his family. It is a tragic situation. Steve was driving slowly and unfortunately the glaring light of the sun is something he can not control. If you tell someone to stop because they can't see in a situation like that then no one would be moving. Steve is a kind and caring man and has done a lot for the community, helping young people every day. He will feel guilt for the rest of his life but I do hope that he can move forward because it would be terrible loss to the community if he can't. With regards to West End cycle paths; I ride my bike every day through there and it drives me insane when I see cyclists on the road next to it! Its dangerous, Whether you think the surface is uneven or not and you can't ride your bike at super speeds on it is neither here nor there! In my opinion, if you ride on the road when there is a cycle path available you should be fined. If a car was to drive on the path then they would be! If you are a seasoned cyclist then you should know the difference between safety and stupidty![/p][/quote]It drives me insane when I see cyclists on the path when they're on ROAD vehicles, also, cycle paths are often more dangerous than the road, just look at how often pedestrians are hit when crosing the road.[/p][/quote]More dangerous because you don't pay attention to what is ahead of you? I fail to see how you think that it is safer to be on the road then on a cycle path. Like I said, I ride my bike every single day of the year and where there is a path I will use it. Yes, I might have to go slower than I would on the road but I would rather that then be knocked off my bike. If there isn't a cycle path then obviously using the road is a safer option. I just think that if more people used the cycle paths then there would be less accidents. This my personal opinion and nothing anyone says will change that. I clearly am on my own with that opinion because so many of you seem to think the complete opposite and to be honest I couldn't really care less. I know I am safer on the cycle paths.[/p][/quote]No, I pay plenty of attention to what's ahead, it's drivers that often lack such attention, it is safer to be on the road to be more visible, make it more likely to be seen, cycle paths also often cross driveways and go round the outside of roundabouts where motorists don't expect a vehicle to be, they ae also often in severe disrepair, this is why, until proper, safe, cycle infrastructure and a decent amount of money spent on it become a thing, I will keep exercising my LEGAL RIGHT to use the road. Ginger_cyclist

5:03pm Thu 30 Jan 14

BorislawGeorgiew says...

What is cannot be any other way but how it is
The choices we make,
We question ourselves and ask if we could have done so differently
What is cannot be any other way but how it is.
Good or bad that is how it should be...it was to be
For it was written before we knew to walk those path


What is cannot be any other way
As there is a reason beyond our knowledge for the way things are
The choices we make, the road we trod
We choose
But we were already chosen for a specific purpose in our very existence.
We love...we hurt...we laugh...we cry through all our life's journey
Still without knowing we walk our given paths
Fulfilling the plans of one greater than us.

We serve our purpose
Sometimes we die never knowing what our purpose was
But those we left behind are left with the true understanding of what we were.
What is was meant to be can be no other way but how it is
Good or bad...embrace it...cry over it...laugh over it....but get over it...move on

Take with you the positive.
Learn from the negative and know that
It is how it is...how it was to be...how it has to be
What is cannot be any other way but how it is The choices we make, We question ourselves and ask if we could have done so differently What is cannot be any other way but how it is. Good or bad that is how it should be...it was to be For it was written before we knew to walk those path What is cannot be any other way As there is a reason beyond our knowledge for the way things are The choices we make, the road we trod We choose But we were already chosen for a specific purpose in our very existence. We love...we hurt...we laugh...we cry through all our life's journey Still without knowing we walk our given paths Fulfilling the plans of one greater than us. We serve our purpose Sometimes we die never knowing what our purpose was But those we left behind are left with the true understanding of what we were. What is was meant to be can be no other way but how it is Good or bad...embrace it...cry over it...laugh over it....but get over it...move on Take with you the positive. Learn from the negative and know that It is how it is...how it was to be...how it has to be BorislawGeorgiew

5:43pm Thu 30 Jan 14

downfader says...

kiddynamite wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
kiddynamite wrote:
Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!!
Someone is always losing their life. Does this mean we stop discussing everything, ever, and just dole out meaningless platitudes?
Absolutely not. just be respectful!
It would be disrespectful to ignore it. It would be disrespectful to sit back and assume others will fix it.
[quote][p][bold]kiddynamite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kiddynamite[/bold] wrote: Someone lost their life here and all you sad old handwringers can do is debate the accident. You are not crash investigators!!!! wind it in and have some respect for the deceased's family and friends you horrible bunch of Salads!![/p][/quote]Someone is always losing their life. Does this mean we stop discussing everything, ever, and just dole out meaningless platitudes?[/p][/quote]Absolutely not. just be respectful![/p][/quote]It would be disrespectful to ignore it. It would be disrespectful to sit back and assume others will fix it. downfader

8:14pm Thu 30 Jan 14

lordflood says...

Would be a good idea if the council now got on and repainted the white lines along that stretch of road, as some are nonexistent or black where the road surface has been sealed with bitumen ie (black).
Would be a good idea if the council now got on and repainted the white lines along that stretch of road, as some are nonexistent or black where the road surface has been sealed with bitumen ie (black). lordflood

9:28pm Thu 30 Jan 14

sotonbusdriver says...

boxing_nut wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
boxing_nut wrote:
Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.
As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too...

But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way???

As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened.

It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect...

The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.
What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time.
And the slip of Waterhouse lane, which the report states the minibus was coming out of.... Has a bus stop...
[quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.[/p][/quote]As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too... But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way??? As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened. It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect... The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.[/p][/quote]What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time.[/p][/quote]And the slip of Waterhouse lane, which the report states the minibus was coming out of.... Has a bus stop... sotonbusdriver

10:11pm Thu 30 Jan 14

boxing_nut says...

sotonbusdriver wrote:
boxing_nut wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
boxing_nut wrote:
Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.
As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too...

But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way???

As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened.

It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect...

The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.
What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time.
And the slip of Waterhouse lane, which the report states the minibus was coming out of.... Has a bus stop...
I give up, why would the cyclist coming from Totten be in the slip road?
[quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.[/p][/quote]As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too... But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way??? As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened. It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect... The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.[/p][/quote]What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time.[/p][/quote]And the slip of Waterhouse lane, which the report states the minibus was coming out of.... Has a bus stop...[/p][/quote]I give up, why would the cyclist coming from Totten be in the slip road? boxing_nut

10:16pm Thu 30 Jan 14

boxing_nut says...

sotonbusdriver wrote:
boxing_nut wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
boxing_nut wrote:
Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.
As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too...

But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way???

As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened.

It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect...

The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.
What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time.
And the slip of Waterhouse lane, which the report states the minibus was coming out of.... Has a bus stop...
And besides the accident happened on the bridge as clearly stated which has no bus stops as most people who travel this route no. If your going to be pedantic at least keep it in context.
[quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boxing_nut[/bold] wrote: Can't believe nobody asked him why he thought their'd be a bus post on Mountbatten Way - a stretch of road he's drivin thousands of times.[/p][/quote]As it happens from Waterhouse Lane, slip towards town there are in fact 2 bus stop, one is a shelter too... But what needed to be asked "Is why a knowledgeable cyclist wasn't using a provided cycle path that is provided along Mountbatten Way??? As I have cycled from Totton the Town on a few occasions I know very well there is a suitable and adequate cycle path, especially where the accident happened. It also appears from accounts that the cyclist was in fact coming up the inside of a vehicle, which most motorists don't expect... The court heard that the deceased was run over by a Merc car after being knocked off the bike.. Which was would have been the vehicle which did the most damage I would expect.. So the minibus may have knocked him off his bike, but the Merc would have done the fatal injuries.[/p][/quote]What's your point? Yes there are two bus stops from Waterhouse Lane which are in slip roads so if he thought he clipped one of them he would have had to be weaving across the road. My point was he through he clipped a bus sign on the stretch of road without any bus signs and one which he's driven on many a time.[/p][/quote]And the slip of Waterhouse lane, which the report states the minibus was coming out of.... Has a bus stop...[/p][/quote]And besides the accident happened on the bridge as clearly stated which has no bus stops as most people who travel this route no. If your going to be pedantic at least keep it in context. boxing_nut

7:34pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Stevo98 says...

If we just decide on the known facts:

David Irving was doing nothing wrong. he was an experienced cyclist and took measures to make himself visible.

Steven Petterson failed to notice the other vehicles overtake Mr Irving, failed to notice the cyclist who was in plain view - all the other motorists saw the cyclist.

Mr Petterson ignored the Highway Code:

This is an extract from the Highway Code (the document that the anti-cycling lobby like to quote from all the time): "If you are dazzled by bright sunlight, slow down and if necessary, stop".

And Mr Petterson's actions after he killed Mr Irving are baffling, why would you call a relative to go and look at a bus stop you thought you hit?

How can a wing mirror hit something on the pavement unless the vehicle is driving hard up against the curb?

Did Petterson have the radio on? Could he perhaps have followed the Highway Code and taken care so he didn't kill someone?

This is from Beyond the Kerb:

A pattern of light

Here is a small list, arrived at from some very cursory googling:

Anthony Maynard, died 3 July 2008. Struck from behind by van. Driver was dazzled by low sun, CPS did not press charges.

Peter Stubbs, died 4 May 2010. Struck from behind by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, two juries failed to reach a verdict, judge filed formal not guilty verdict.

David Noble, died 20 October 2010. Struck from behind by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty.

Arthur Lakin, died 25 October 2010. Struck by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty.

Christian and Nicholas Townend, died 5 December 2010. Struck from behind by coach. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by dangerous driving, was found not guilty of both the original charge and of causing death by careless driving.

Maria Micklethwaite, died 13 January 2012. Struck from behind by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty.

Ray Elsmore, died 5 December 2012. Struck by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, jury failed to reach a verdict (retrial pending).

David Irving, died 17 December 2012. Struck from behind by minibus. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty.

Now, my question is this:

If a tree surgeon was waving a chainsaw around and killed someone with it, would you accept his excuse that "the sun was in my eyes!"

If your mother was killed on a zebra crossing by a cyclist would you accept the cyclist's excuse of "The sun was in my eyes!"

Petterson's lapses of judgment killed someone. That's a fact.

Petterson belongs in prison, it's terrifying that this man may get back in a car in the future.
If we just decide on the known facts: David Irving was doing nothing wrong. he was an experienced cyclist and took measures to make himself visible. Steven Petterson failed to notice the other vehicles overtake Mr Irving, failed to notice the cyclist who was in plain view - all the other motorists saw the cyclist. Mr Petterson ignored the Highway Code: This is an extract from the Highway Code (the document that the anti-cycling lobby like to quote from all the time): "If you are dazzled by bright sunlight, slow down and if necessary, stop". And Mr Petterson's actions after he killed Mr Irving are baffling, why would you call a relative to go and look at a bus stop you thought you hit? How can a wing mirror hit something on the pavement unless the vehicle is driving hard up against the curb? Did Petterson have the radio on? Could he perhaps have followed the Highway Code and taken care so he didn't kill someone? This is from Beyond the Kerb: A pattern of light Here is a small list, arrived at from some very cursory googling: Anthony Maynard, died 3 July 2008. Struck from behind by van. Driver was dazzled by low sun, CPS did not press charges. Peter Stubbs, died 4 May 2010. Struck from behind by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, two juries failed to reach a verdict, judge filed formal not guilty verdict. David Noble, died 20 October 2010. Struck from behind by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty. Arthur Lakin, died 25 October 2010. Struck by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty. Christian and Nicholas Townend, died 5 December 2010. Struck from behind by coach. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by dangerous driving, was found not guilty of both the original charge and of causing death by careless driving. Maria Micklethwaite, died 13 January 2012. Struck from behind by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty. Ray Elsmore, died 5 December 2012. Struck by car. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, jury failed to reach a verdict (retrial pending). David Irving, died 17 December 2012. Struck from behind by minibus. Driver was dazzled by low sun, was charged with causing death by careless driving, was found not guilty. Now, my question is this: If a tree surgeon was waving a chainsaw around and killed someone with it, would you accept his excuse that "the sun was in my eyes!" If your mother was killed on a zebra crossing by a cyclist would you accept the cyclist's excuse of "The sun was in my eyes!" Petterson's lapses of judgment killed someone. That's a fact. Petterson belongs in prison, it's terrifying that this man may get back in a car in the future. Stevo98

7:35pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Stevo98 says...

Barrister Mark Florida-James, for Mr Petterson, said outside court:

“Mr Petterson is very sorry for what has happened and it just shows how hazardous driving is.”

What? What a very stupid thing to say.
Barrister Mark Florida-James, for Mr Petterson, said outside court: “Mr Petterson is very sorry for what has happened and it just shows how hazardous driving is.” What? What a very stupid thing to say. Stevo98

9:10pm Fri 31 Jan 14

middistance says...

he phoned a relative to check if he hit a BUS STOP!
seriously.......
he phoned a relative to check if he hit a BUS STOP! seriously....... middistance

12:09am Sat 1 Feb 14

Stevo98 says...

middistance wrote:
he phoned a relative to check if he hit a BUS STOP!
seriously.......
Petterson knew full well what he had done. He killed an innocent person then came up with his ****-and-bull story. He didn't even go back and check on the person he smashed into, the gutless coward.
[quote][p][bold]middistance[/bold] wrote: he phoned a relative to check if he hit a BUS STOP! seriously.......[/p][/quote]Petterson knew full well what he had done. He killed an innocent person then came up with his ****-and-bull story. He didn't even go back and check on the person he smashed into, the gutless coward. Stevo98

5:28pm Sat 1 Feb 14

MyFairLady says...

This is an awful story and my daughter is friends with David's daughter. The family have been torn apart by this and miss David terribly. Please can everyone not make knee-jerk comments and spare a thought for the family who probably read the papers etc? There are two sides to every story and I am sure the van driver is very remorseful and thank goodness he contacted the Police unlike the driver of the car which killed Jade Clark. At least he has admitted his error and perhaps that is why the court was lenient with him? I'm no judge or juror but can see first hand the devastating effect this accident has had on the family. I am teaching my daughter to drive at the moment and situations like this only hit home how vulnerable cyclists are on the roads and how we all have to adapt our driving to the conditions when the weather plays havoc with visibility.
This is an awful story and my daughter is friends with David's daughter. The family have been torn apart by this and miss David terribly. Please can everyone not make knee-jerk comments and spare a thought for the family who probably read the papers etc? There are two sides to every story and I am sure the van driver is very remorseful and thank goodness he contacted the Police unlike the driver of the car which killed Jade Clark. At least he has admitted his error and perhaps that is why the court was lenient with him? I'm no judge or juror but can see first hand the devastating effect this accident has had on the family. I am teaching my daughter to drive at the moment and situations like this only hit home how vulnerable cyclists are on the roads and how we all have to adapt our driving to the conditions when the weather plays havoc with visibility. MyFairLady

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree