Murder police swoop on Gordon Arms pub in Fareham in Kevin John Palmer murder investigation

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  • Police swoop on pub in murder investigation
  • Officers searching for body of Kevin John Palmer
  • Mr Palmer was last seen in 1999
  • Investigation is called Operation Arkholme
  • Police for appealing for anyone with information to come forward

4:47pm

Daily Echo:

Officers using a dog during the search this afternoon.

3:48pm

Police community support officers leafletting Gordon Road with appeals for information.

Daily Echo:

3:28pm

Daily Echo:

2:53pm

Daily Echo:

2:35pm

Gordon Road resident Helen Clarke, who lives near to the pub, said: "It's awful. We didn't know what was going on, but there have been lots of police here since 7.30 when I took the kids to school."

2:21pm

Daily Echo:

2:20pm

Daily Echo:

1:36pm

Daily Echo:

This is the scene at the rear of the pub.

1:02pm

Officers are still at the scene, with some in white boiler suits as they carry out the searches.

Police dogs are also on the scene, as are Hampshire Fire and Rescue service.

1:01pm

Resident Amy Hall, 28, said: "I am shocked by this. We have lived here for five years and I have never seen any trouble here, this is a close knit community.

"My mum and dad saw lots of police activity and saw what was going on.

"It has taken us by surprise."

12:49pm

Caroline Rickman, from New Road, Fareham, said:  "The pub has changed hands three or four times recently. It has been unoccupied for a while now.

"It was what you would call a pub for locals. It must have had an owner just a few months before Christmas. I am really surprised by this it is normally a quiet area.

"We do not have much trouble, but now it seems like a hotbed of intrigue. It is very old school around here. It is a really close knit community, I expect everyone is quite shocked by this."

12:41pm

NEIGHBOURS living around the site of the former pub at the centre of the murder probe spoke of their shock at the police activity on their doorstep.

One woman, who did not want to be identified, said: “We haven't been told anything by the police, they have not spoken to us about what they are doing.

“I did see two men shimmying over the fence into the garden yesterday afternoon who looked like workman, definitely not police.”

The woman also said she recognised a picture of Mr Palmer as someone who used to frequent the pub.

12:38pm

A brief video clip shpowing the scene of the investigation.

12:36pm

In 2009, an inquest was held into the death of Kevin John Palmer, despite there being no body.

An open verdict was returned.

12:34pm

In 2010 the pub was looking for a new landlord and was put on the market for £44,500.

Winchester-based property agents Christie and Co were dealing with the lease.

More recently the pub has had a succession of temporary managers and Christie and Co were finally instructed to sell it in April 2012.

Around 14 viewings took place with people wanting to convert it for property use rather than as a pub.

It was snapped up in October 2012 and an application to change the use of the building from pub to residential was given the nod in March last year.

12:33pm

The Gordon Arms recently stopped trading in 2012 after numerous attempts to make it work as a business failed.

The two-storey building has a large single storey extension which was added in the mid 1980s.

Inside there is a bar and a meeting room lounge with kitchen, beer cellar and toilets on the ground floor.

Upstairs there is a residential unit with three bedrooms, a lounge, kitchen and bathroom.

To the front of the property there is a small paved forecourt with access to the public bar area while at the back there is a long and narrow open garden surrounded by hedges and fences.

12:19pm

Daily Echo:

12:18pm

Local resident, James Clancy, said: "I have been to the pub once. It's been closed for about a year, I think.

"I'm reallly surprised by how many police there are here. It is a bit odd I have never seen anything like this before."

12:09pm

Officers have been on the scene since 7.30am this morning. Mr Palmer's immediate next-of-kin were informed by police in advance of this search beginning.

12:06pm

Daily Echo: Det Supt Paul Barton

11:54am

Senior investigating officer Detective Superintendent Paul Barton said: "Each unsolved murder across Hampshire and the Isle of Wight is reviewed routinely by a dedicated team of experienced detectives in the force.

"A recent assessment of information received about the whereabouts of Kevin John Palmer prompted a line of enquiry, which has taken us to this address in Fareham.

"We are not able to give more details about the source of this information because of sensitive and confidential circumstances. Nevertheless, the considered opinion of our detectives is that this information justifies a search for human remains within the garden of the former Gordon Arms pub."

11:52am

At the front of the pub, an officer is currently standing guard.

Daily Echo:

11:52am

The garden of the former Gordon Arms in Gordon Road in Fareham is currently being dug up.

11:51am

They are searching for the body of Kevin John Palmer, who was last seen alive in March 1999.

Daily Echo: Inquest could solve ten-year mystery

11:50am

Police officers have this morning swooped on a disused pub in Hampshire as part of a murder investigation.

Comments (12)

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2:52pm Tue 4 Feb 14

vpharm says...

if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality vpharm
  • Score: -11

2:55pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Adrian Smith* says...

vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
[quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s. Adrian Smith*
  • Score: 14

3:55pm Tue 4 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
And how does killing a convicted criminal make the justice system any less a murderer? And of course people have been put to death in the past to then find out they were innocent. There is no place for the death penalty in any civilised society.
[quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]And how does killing a convicted criminal make the justice system any less a murderer? And of course people have been put to death in the past to then find out they were innocent. There is no place for the death penalty in any civilised society. sotonboy84
  • Score: 4

4:20pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
[quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals. Inform Al
  • Score: -7

4:39pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Adrian Smith* says...

There are 32 US states that have the death penalty.

Your ramblings on cannabis are ill-informed at best (nonsensical is probably a more accurate description, however).

As for the murder rate in Britain, would you like to provide evidence of our claims? No, thought not.

The murder rate is in fact the lowest it has been for over 30 years and has been steadily dropping since 2000. Unlike other crime figures, it's not really possible to 'massage' murder figures, due to the fact there has to be a body, in all but a fraction of cases (and many of those are still murders, as this very search in Fareham points out).

Source of stats: http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-18900384
There are 32 US states that have the death penalty. Your ramblings on cannabis are ill-informed at best (nonsensical is probably a more accurate description, however). As for the murder rate in Britain, would you like to provide evidence of our claims? No, thought not. The murder rate is in fact the lowest it has been for over 30 years and has been steadily dropping since 2000. Unlike other crime figures, it's not really possible to 'massage' murder figures, due to the fact there has to be a body, in all but a fraction of cases (and many of those are still murders, as this very search in Fareham points out). Source of stats: http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-18900384 Adrian Smith*
  • Score: 6

6:06am Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details. gilbertratchet
  • Score: 3

6:08am Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?
[quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences? gilbertratchet
  • Score: 2

11:04am Wed 5 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?
Yes
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?[/p][/quote]Yes Inform Al
  • Score: 0

11:10am Wed 5 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.[/p][/quote]As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with. Inform Al
  • Score: -1

12:10pm Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Inform Al wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?
Yes
You'd happily commit murder if you could get away with it?
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?[/p][/quote]Yes[/p][/quote]You'd happily commit murder if you could get away with it? gilbertratchet
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Inform Al wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.
But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post.
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.[/p][/quote]As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.[/p][/quote]But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post. gilbertratchet
  • Score: 2

5:29pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.
But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post.
Think you'll find it has, even for treason now. And of course that is another crime that has to be premeditated. The other one that was left on the statute book back in 1965 was arsing in a naval dockyard, something I'm not liable to get involved with. Or was it arson?
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.[/p][/quote]As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.[/p][/quote]But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post.[/p][/quote]Think you'll find it has, even for treason now. And of course that is another crime that has to be premeditated. The other one that was left on the statute book back in 1965 was arsing in a naval dockyard, something I'm not liable to get involved with. Or was it arson? Inform Al
  • Score: -1

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