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2:52pm Tue 4 Feb 14

vpharm says...

if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality vpharm
  • Score: -11

2:55pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Adrian Smith* says...

vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
[quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s. Adrian Smith*
  • Score: 14

3:55pm Tue 4 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
And how does killing a convicted criminal make the justice system any less a murderer? And of course people have been put to death in the past to then find out they were innocent. There is no place for the death penalty in any civilised society.
[quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]And how does killing a convicted criminal make the justice system any less a murderer? And of course people have been put to death in the past to then find out they were innocent. There is no place for the death penalty in any civilised society. sotonboy84
  • Score: 4

4:20pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
[quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals. Inform Al
  • Score: -7

4:39pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Adrian Smith* says...

There are 32 US states that have the death penalty.

Your ramblings on cannabis are ill-informed at best (nonsensical is probably a more accurate description, however).

As for the murder rate in Britain, would you like to provide evidence of our claims? No, thought not.

The murder rate is in fact the lowest it has been for over 30 years and has been steadily dropping since 2000. Unlike other crime figures, it's not really possible to 'massage' murder figures, due to the fact there has to be a body, in all but a fraction of cases (and many of those are still murders, as this very search in Fareham points out).

Source of stats: http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-18900384
There are 32 US states that have the death penalty. Your ramblings on cannabis are ill-informed at best (nonsensical is probably a more accurate description, however). As for the murder rate in Britain, would you like to provide evidence of our claims? No, thought not. The murder rate is in fact the lowest it has been for over 30 years and has been steadily dropping since 2000. Unlike other crime figures, it's not really possible to 'massage' murder figures, due to the fact there has to be a body, in all but a fraction of cases (and many of those are still murders, as this very search in Fareham points out). Source of stats: http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-18900384 Adrian Smith*
  • Score: 6

6:06am Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details. gilbertratchet
  • Score: 3

6:08am Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?
[quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences? gilbertratchet
  • Score: 2

11:04am Wed 5 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?
Yes
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?[/p][/quote]Yes Inform Al
  • Score: 0

11:10am Wed 5 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.[/p][/quote]As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with. Inform Al
  • Score: -1

12:10pm Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Inform Al wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?
Yes
You'd happily commit murder if you could get away with it?
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]Given that most murders - most violent crimes, in fact - are acts of rage or impulse, they're quite definitely not well thought-out acts. The consequences are rarely a deterrent. Put it this way: is the only reason you've never murdered someone, the fear of the consequences?[/p][/quote]Yes[/p][/quote]You'd happily commit murder if you could get away with it? gilbertratchet
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Wed 5 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Inform Al wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.
But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post.
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.[/p][/quote]As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.[/p][/quote]But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post. gilbertratchet
  • Score: 2

5:29pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Inform Al says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
Adrian Smith* wrote:
vpharm wrote:
if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders!
WE need laws that discourage criminality
I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy!

Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.
Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.
This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.
As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.
But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post.
Think you'll find it has, even for treason now. And of course that is another crime that has to be premeditated. The other one that was left on the statute book back in 1965 was arsing in a naval dockyard, something I'm not liable to get involved with. Or was it arson?
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adrian Smith*[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]vpharm[/bold] wrote: if we had the death penalty for murder, there will be fewer murders! WE need laws that discourage criminality[/p][/quote]I have obviously missed the fact that there are no murders in the USA thanks to the death penalty. I mean, if only we could have a murder rate like the one Americans enjoy! Also, I didn't realise no-one was ever murdered in this country before the death penalty was abolished in the 1950s.[/p][/quote]Apart from the fact that the death penalty was done away with in the USA so they are now playing catch up, they also have loads of weapons and idiots getting paranoid schizophrenia thanks to cannbis that the morons in some states have now legalised. It can only now get worse in the USA. On the bright side when they wake up to the dangers of cannabis they will go back to the drawing board. Hopefully our own cretins will not have legalised it by then.. As far as murders in this country before the death sentence was abolished, they were very rare compared to what is happening today, one murder by a bus driver in the Medway Towns in kent, by deliberately using the bus to mow down a pedestrian a couple of years ago did not even make the lopcal paper, by contrast when I was a lad in the 1950s a chap who tried to rob a post office with a water pistol made all the Nationals.[/p][/quote]This is complete and utter ill-informed nonsense. Sorry Al, you're usually close to the mark with this sort of thing, but in this case you're talking out of your backside. See Adrian's comment below for more details.[/p][/quote]As the examples I gave are fact I was hardly imitating the oriface of the body that you too often speak from. Go back to the numbers of unlawful killings before 1965 then look at the steady increase, year on year, since. It is necessary to look at all unlawful killings as guilty pleas for manslaughter in what were definitely murders were accepted immediatly after proper sentencing was done away with.[/p][/quote]But the death penalty hasn't been done away with. That's the flaw in your post.[/p][/quote]Think you'll find it has, even for treason now. And of course that is another crime that has to be premeditated. The other one that was left on the statute book back in 1965 was arsing in a naval dockyard, something I'm not liable to get involved with. Or was it arson? Inform Al
  • Score: -1

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