Hundreds could get parking refunds after women's fight

Christine Lemon and Sue Harris

Christine Lemon and Sue Harris

First published in News Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Political reporter

HUNDREDS of motorists may have paid out thousands of pounds after wrongly being slapped with fines at a Southampton car park.

It comes after two Hampshire women won their fight against a well known parking firm who targeted them at a large city store.

Now their success in overturning a ticket at The Range has led a Hampshire MP to say the “floodgates” have been opened to hundreds of motorists who have been hit with £100 fines at the store.

Christine Lemon and Sue Harris were taken to court by enforcement firm ParkingEye Ltd after the company claimed they had overstayed their time at the store in Shirley.

But a judge ruled against ParkingEye after its solicitor was unable to produce a contract showing it had the power to hand over fines.

The firm insists it does have a contract but was again unable to provide proof when asked by the Daily Echo.

ParkingEye hit the news in 2012 when we revealed dozens of people were hit with fines at a car park at Town Quay after the firm operated spy cameras.

But the outraged motorists who spoke to the Daily Echo said they did not know they were being photographed, and that there was no clear indication that their time in the car park started from the moment they drove in, and not when they bought their ticket.

Friends Christine and Sue visited The Range in Winchester Road on October 26, 2012 for a catch-up, but were shocked when they received fine letters through the post several weeks later.

The letters said they had overstayed the two hours’ free parking at the store by 53 minutes and would have to pay £100, or £60 within 14 days. But they disputed the fine, saying they had not seen signs spelling out the policy, and ParkingEye’s case was dismissed at Southampton County Court.

Although the company’s lawyer produced a contract to manage the site from February 8, 2013 onwards, he was unable to show one covering the two years prior that the firm had run the car park.

Now Christine and Sue are calling on customers who received fines at The Range car park before February 9, 2013 to challenge the firm and get their money back.

Christine, 65, of Sylvia Crescent in Totton, said: “Both Sue and I are absolutely delighted at the outcome of our hearing. It proves that we were totally right to force ParkingEye to take us to court.

“However, I also feel angry that this private parking company has been taking money unlawfully for two years from other shoppers at The Range in Shirley.”

Sue, 54, from Poppy Close in Locks Heath, said: “As a result of our success in court, we would like everyone who has fallen victim to the huge parking charges imposed by ParkingEye, in conjunction with The Range, to claim the money back.”

Christine’s MP, Julian Lewis, pictred below, who represents New Forest East said: “I think the court ruling shows the slipshod nature of arrangements between ParkingEye and The Range.

“It would open the floodgates to other people challenging parking fines from before February 2013.”

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) is investigating the matter, and says it may not release vehicle keeper details to ParkingEye if Chris and Sue’s suspicions are founded.

A spokesman for ParkingEye said: “Parking Eye is a member of the British Parking Association's approved operator scheme.

“Parking Eye’s contract with The Range, Southampton, has an effective date from before the incident in question and so it would therefore be incorrect to say the contract did not exist.”

The Range declined to comment.

Comments (49)

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6:35am Thu 6 Feb 14

LadyNetley says...

Well done you two ladies. It takes people like you to bring about change
Well done you two ladies. It takes people like you to bring about change LadyNetley
  • Score: 55

7:44am Fri 7 Feb 14

cnwillcox1969 says...

Excellent news - well worth these determined ladies taking this firm to challenge. I didnt even know there was a 2 hour time limit in this car park so this also acts as a warning to drivers and shoppers like me who may innocently pass that two hour limit.
Excellent news - well worth these determined ladies taking this firm to challenge. I didnt even know there was a 2 hour time limit in this car park so this also acts as a warning to drivers and shoppers like me who may innocently pass that two hour limit. cnwillcox1969
  • Score: 41

7:51am Fri 7 Feb 14

funchal says...

Why would anyone want to spend 2 hours in The Range?
Why would anyone want to spend 2 hours in The Range? funchal
  • Score: 42

7:57am Fri 7 Feb 14

TIL 7468 says...

My wife and I pulled into Town quay started rowing and then drove home.
The ticket arrived about 6 months later.
Of course I appealed as we were only there ten minutes and in the dark the tiny writing on the signage is impossible to read whilst in the car.
Of course they lost that appeal letter.
So in the end I've kept correspondence so I said come and get me because I've got nothing!
My wife and I pulled into Town quay started rowing and then drove home. The ticket arrived about 6 months later. Of course I appealed as we were only there ten minutes and in the dark the tiny writing on the signage is impossible to read whilst in the car. Of course they lost that appeal letter. So in the end I've kept correspondence so I said come and get me because I've got nothing! TIL 7468
  • Score: 14

8:06am Fri 7 Feb 14

Zexagon says...

TIL 7468 wrote:
My wife and I pulled into Town quay started rowing and then drove home.
The ticket arrived about 6 months later.
Of course I appealed as we were only there ten minutes and in the dark the tiny writing on the signage is impossible to read whilst in the car.
Of course they lost that appeal letter.
So in the end I've kept correspondence so I said come and get me because I've got nothing!
Still got the wife?
[quote][p][bold]TIL 7468[/bold] wrote: My wife and I pulled into Town quay started rowing and then drove home. The ticket arrived about 6 months later. Of course I appealed as we were only there ten minutes and in the dark the tiny writing on the signage is impossible to read whilst in the car. Of course they lost that appeal letter. So in the end I've kept correspondence so I said come and get me because I've got nothing![/p][/quote]Still got the wife? Zexagon
  • Score: 37

8:17am Fri 7 Feb 14

max8687 says...

i was shopping in there with my mum in 2012, at the time we didnt see any signs , we were parked in a disabled bay, as my mum has a blue badge, i think the signs used to be up high, not sure if they still are, but we had lunch in there, we spent over £120.00, left and came home, a few weeks later, i recived £100 fine, i went straight up there, with our receipt, told them at the desk, very clearly, that i will not be paying the fine, as the signs were not put in places that you would see them, i showed them my receipt, and told them if they dont cancel the ticket, i will return all our shopping, and never shop in there again, well they said they can cancel it on the system, so i left, 4 weeks later i had a final demand, so i went back up there and waited until they canceled my ticket, we have never been in there again,
i was shopping in there with my mum in 2012, at the time we didnt see any signs , we were parked in a disabled bay, as my mum has a blue badge, i think the signs used to be up high, not sure if they still are, but we had lunch in there, we spent over £120.00, left and came home, a few weeks later, i recived £100 fine, i went straight up there, with our receipt, told them at the desk, very clearly, that i will not be paying the fine, as the signs were not put in places that you would see them, i showed them my receipt, and told them if they dont cancel the ticket, i will return all our shopping, and never shop in there again, well they said they can cancel it on the system, so i left, 4 weeks later i had a final demand, so i went back up there and waited until they canceled my ticket, we have never been in there again, max8687
  • Score: 23

8:19am Fri 7 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

They have absolutely no power whatsoever to issue fines. No contract at all is going to grant them that. What they're doing is issuing parking charges, and effectively suing people for breach of contract - the implied contract people undertake when parking there. It isn't a fine at all.

While this can be seen as a victory for the little people, in reality it's only right and fair that companies such as The Range should be allowed to control who does and doesn't park on their land.
They have absolutely no power whatsoever to issue fines. No contract at all is going to grant them that. What they're doing is issuing parking charges, and effectively suing people for breach of contract - the implied contract people undertake when parking there. It isn't a fine at all. While this can be seen as a victory for the little people, in reality it's only right and fair that companies such as The Range should be allowed to control who does and doesn't park on their land. gilbertratchet
  • Score: 1

8:23am Fri 7 Feb 14

Zeo says...

I go to that range all the time, it's sign posted with details saying 2 hours free parking. The cameras are so easy to see as you drive into the range/
I go to that range all the time, it's sign posted with details saying 2 hours free parking. The cameras are so easy to see as you drive into the range/ Zeo
  • Score: 1

8:50am Fri 7 Feb 14

Gozza1 says...

funchal wrote:
Why would anyone want to spend 2 hours in The Range?
If the staff are anything like those at the Range in Thornhill, you could spend 2 hours in the queue waiting to pay.
[quote][p][bold]funchal[/bold] wrote: Why would anyone want to spend 2 hours in The Range?[/p][/quote]If the staff are anything like those at the Range in Thornhill, you could spend 2 hours in the queue waiting to pay. Gozza1
  • Score: 32

9:16am Fri 7 Feb 14

10 Minute Man says...

They are not going to refund unless you take them to court.

These companies invoice (not 'fine' - they have no power to do that) you, and spew out a handful of letters in the process. Eventually these come from their "solicitors", which is typically just another Herbert on a neighbouring desk. And then....they go away....there's no court appearance, no balliffs (lol), no "judgement on your credit record" or any of the other guff they threaten the public with. Its a lying scam.

You used to be able to completely ignore the parking invoice plea, but about a year ago the law changed so you do have to lodge a complaint with a 3rd party - look on pepipoo web site I think for what happens next. But don't, whatever you do, pay on receipt of that ticket if you are thinking of contesting/appealing
/fighting. You will probably not get your money back.
They are not going to refund unless you take them to court. These companies invoice (not 'fine' - they have no power to do that) you, and spew out a handful of letters in the process. Eventually these come from their "solicitors", which is typically just another Herbert on a neighbouring desk. And then....they go away....there's no court appearance, no balliffs (lol), no "judgement on your credit record" or any of the other guff they threaten the public with. Its a lying scam. You used to be able to completely ignore the parking invoice plea, but about a year ago the law changed so you do have to lodge a complaint with a 3rd party - look on pepipoo web site I think for what happens next. But don't, whatever you do, pay on receipt of that ticket if you are thinking of contesting/appealing /fighting. You will probably not get your money back. 10 Minute Man
  • Score: 25

9:33am Fri 7 Feb 14

funchal says...

This is very bad publicity for The Range. They need to make a statement about the situation or they could over time start to see their customer levels drop.
This is very bad publicity for The Range. They need to make a statement about the situation or they could over time start to see their customer levels drop. funchal
  • Score: 22

9:58am Fri 7 Feb 14

barnesgilly says...

the best way to deal with these fines/ charges what ever you want to call them is to ignore all coraspondance do not reply at all it has worked for me
the best way to deal with these fines/ charges what ever you want to call them is to ignore all coraspondance do not reply at all it has worked for me barnesgilly
  • Score: 4

10:17am Fri 7 Feb 14

sburman says...

Have I fallen foul of Parking Eye, Yes. I Made a mistake when I entered my Car Reg. at Town Quay.
Did I appeal the Parking ticket – Yes
Did Parking Eye let me off – YES, they accepted that I had bought the required ticket.
These women parked for far more than the two hour limit but got off on a technicality .
Parking fines are a real nuisance and everyone has an excuse/reason but the alternative could be parking anarchy. Ie. The Range car park full up with anyone but Range customers who in turn would then be moaning about a lack of car parking space.
Have I fallen foul of Parking Eye, Yes. I Made a mistake when I entered my Car Reg. at Town Quay. Did I appeal the Parking ticket – Yes Did Parking Eye let me off – YES, they accepted that I had bought the required ticket. These women parked for far more than the two hour limit but got off on a technicality . Parking fines are a real nuisance and everyone has an excuse/reason but the alternative could be parking anarchy. Ie. The Range car park full up with anyone but Range customers who in turn would then be moaning about a lack of car parking space. sburman
  • Score: -10

10:26am Fri 7 Feb 14

saintjimbob says...

My other half is currently taking Parking eye and The Range to court to turn over a ccj brought on by disputing a so called fine issued in very early Feb 2013. So far she has had the judgement deferred and we are now in the throws of having it quashed and claiming compensation.
Barnesgilly;- That approach doesn't always work, we did that and this is what happened!
Anyone wishing to fight these crooks go to Money Saving Expert they have a very active page which has live cases including ours and there are plenty of legal eagles to help you.
My other half is currently taking Parking eye and The Range to court to turn over a ccj brought on by disputing a so called fine issued in very early Feb 2013. So far she has had the judgement deferred and we are now in the throws of having it quashed and claiming compensation. Barnesgilly;- That approach doesn't always work, we did that and this is what happened! Anyone wishing to fight these crooks go to Money Saving Expert they have a very active page which has live cases including ours and there are plenty of legal eagles to help you. saintjimbob
  • Score: 24

10:38am Fri 7 Feb 14

Outside of the Box says...

That's one in the eye for ParkingEye.
That's one in the eye for ParkingEye. Outside of the Box
  • Score: 17

10:39am Fri 7 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Of course the other approach is to not abuse parking privileges.
Of course the other approach is to not abuse parking privileges. gilbertratchet
  • Score: -23

11:00am Fri 7 Feb 14

BeyondImagination says...

Great news. I haven't shopped at The Range since Parking Eye started extorting money out of motorists. I don't go to Aldi for the same reason. I did get a speculative invoice from Parking Eye at Town Quay. I filed all the correspondence which went from the invoicing desk to the chasing desk to the debt collector desk before dropping off the conveyor belt into the waste bin.
Great news. I haven't shopped at The Range since Parking Eye started extorting money out of motorists. I don't go to Aldi for the same reason. I did get a speculative invoice from Parking Eye at Town Quay. I filed all the correspondence which went from the invoicing desk to the chasing desk to the debt collector desk before dropping off the conveyor belt into the waste bin. BeyondImagination
  • Score: 17

11:24am Fri 7 Feb 14

saintjimbob says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
Of course the other approach is to not abuse parking privileges.
My other half was a customer at The Range. She only over stayed by 10 min and this was due to The Range tills not working properly slowing everything up. We went back in there when we received the notice and the store manager promised to have the notice written off due to their error. Parking eye ignored the instruction from the store and carried on with their harassment. Any signage was not visible in the car park when the alleged offense took place so any information regarding time limits could not be noted for reference. Any over stay was done innocently and with any malice. My partner is disabled with mobility problems and so two hours parking would just about cover a reasonable shopping time for her.
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: Of course the other approach is to not abuse parking privileges.[/p][/quote]My other half was a customer at The Range. She only over stayed by 10 min and this was due to The Range tills not working properly slowing everything up. We went back in there when we received the notice and the store manager promised to have the notice written off due to their error. Parking eye ignored the instruction from the store and carried on with their harassment. Any signage was not visible in the car park when the alleged offense took place so any information regarding time limits could not be noted for reference. Any over stay was done innocently and with any malice. My partner is disabled with mobility problems and so two hours parking would just about cover a reasonable shopping time for her. saintjimbob
  • Score: 13

11:25am Fri 7 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

Heh, downvotes. How dare I suggest people behave decently and honestly.
Heh, downvotes. How dare I suggest people behave decently and honestly. gilbertratchet
  • Score: -26

11:26am Fri 7 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

saintjimbob wrote:
gilbertratchet wrote:
Of course the other approach is to not abuse parking privileges.
My other half was a customer at The Range. She only over stayed by 10 min and this was due to The Range tills not working properly slowing everything up. We went back in there when we received the notice and the store manager promised to have the notice written off due to their error. Parking eye ignored the instruction from the store and carried on with their harassment. Any signage was not visible in the car park when the alleged offense took place so any information regarding time limits could not be noted for reference. Any over stay was done innocently and with any malice. My partner is disabled with mobility problems and so two hours parking would just about cover a reasonable shopping time for her.
I have no doubt about this, I wasn't referring to your good lady wife. I was referring to the people who DO abuse these facilities. If nobody took the michael, nobody would feel the need to bring in parking nazis.
[quote][p][bold]saintjimbob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: Of course the other approach is to not abuse parking privileges.[/p][/quote]My other half was a customer at The Range. She only over stayed by 10 min and this was due to The Range tills not working properly slowing everything up. We went back in there when we received the notice and the store manager promised to have the notice written off due to their error. Parking eye ignored the instruction from the store and carried on with their harassment. Any signage was not visible in the car park when the alleged offense took place so any information regarding time limits could not be noted for reference. Any over stay was done innocently and with any malice. My partner is disabled with mobility problems and so two hours parking would just about cover a reasonable shopping time for her.[/p][/quote]I have no doubt about this, I wasn't referring to your good lady wife. I was referring to the people who DO abuse these facilities. If nobody took the michael, nobody would feel the need to bring in parking nazis. gilbertratchet
  • Score: -8

11:27am Fri 7 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

BeyondImagination wrote:
Great news. I haven't shopped at The Range since Parking Eye started extorting money out of motorists. I don't go to Aldi for the same reason. I did get a speculative invoice from Parking Eye at Town Quay. I filed all the correspondence which went from the invoicing desk to the chasing desk to the debt collector desk before dropping off the conveyor belt into the waste bin.
That'll show them, eh. I can see the headlines now

"Retail Chains Struggling to Make Ends Meet As Ineffecive Nobody Stops Spending 17p There"
[quote][p][bold]BeyondImagination[/bold] wrote: Great news. I haven't shopped at The Range since Parking Eye started extorting money out of motorists. I don't go to Aldi for the same reason. I did get a speculative invoice from Parking Eye at Town Quay. I filed all the correspondence which went from the invoicing desk to the chasing desk to the debt collector desk before dropping off the conveyor belt into the waste bin.[/p][/quote]That'll show them, eh. I can see the headlines now "Retail Chains Struggling to Make Ends Meet As Ineffecive Nobody Stops Spending 17p There" gilbertratchet
  • Score: -13

12:19pm Fri 7 Feb 14

loosehead says...

I got a ticket outside Tesco's in west Quay. the parking attendant said we give you 30mins free so if you've paid we allow 30minutes before we fine you.
after shopping my wife realised she needed something in Tesco's we arrived at the car 5minutes late but I was stood in the open looking at the warden whilst my wife went into the shop he started to give me a ticket I said hang on I'm here on time & you said I would have another thirty minutes to which he ignored me but then said your not driving your car away so your over the time limit.
I asked what happened to the thirty mins he ignored me again then his boss arrived saying I was threatening him which I hadn't I was told I could appeal so I tried but was told sorry either pay the low amount or go to court.
I paid the low amount as it was my word against his.
But I never realised there was a time limit at the Range?
I got a ticket outside Tesco's in west Quay. the parking attendant said we give you 30mins free so if you've paid we allow 30minutes before we fine you. after shopping my wife realised she needed something in Tesco's we arrived at the car 5minutes late but I was stood in the open looking at the warden whilst my wife went into the shop he started to give me a ticket I said hang on I'm here on time & you said I would have another thirty minutes to which he ignored me but then said your not driving your car away so your over the time limit. I asked what happened to the thirty mins he ignored me again then his boss arrived saying I was threatening him which I hadn't I was told I could appeal so I tried but was told sorry either pay the low amount or go to court. I paid the low amount as it was my word against his. But I never realised there was a time limit at the Range? loosehead
  • Score: 9

12:38pm Fri 7 Feb 14

BeyondImagination says...

gilbertratchet wrote:
BeyondImagination wrote:
Great news. I haven't shopped at The Range since Parking Eye started extorting money out of motorists. I don't go to Aldi for the same reason. I did get a speculative invoice from Parking Eye at Town Quay. I filed all the correspondence which went from the invoicing desk to the chasing desk to the debt collector desk before dropping off the conveyor belt into the waste bin.
That'll show them, eh. I can see the headlines now

"Retail Chains Struggling to Make Ends Meet As Ineffecive Nobody Stops Spending 17p There"
If people stopped using the stores and paying the speculative invoices the problem would go away. They rely on the stupidity of Jo Public who fall for such unfair practices all the time.
[quote][p][bold]gilbertratchet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BeyondImagination[/bold] wrote: Great news. I haven't shopped at The Range since Parking Eye started extorting money out of motorists. I don't go to Aldi for the same reason. I did get a speculative invoice from Parking Eye at Town Quay. I filed all the correspondence which went from the invoicing desk to the chasing desk to the debt collector desk before dropping off the conveyor belt into the waste bin.[/p][/quote]That'll show them, eh. I can see the headlines now "Retail Chains Struggling to Make Ends Meet As Ineffecive Nobody Stops Spending 17p There"[/p][/quote]If people stopped using the stores and paying the speculative invoices the problem would go away. They rely on the stupidity of Jo Public who fall for such unfair practices all the time. BeyondImagination
  • Score: 13

12:40pm Fri 7 Feb 14

ecuk268 says...

I doubt if they're that bothered about customers who stay a bit longer than 2 hours. but, if they didn't have any restrictions, the car park would be full of staff from the General Hospital who'd leave their cars there all day.
I doubt if they're that bothered about customers who stay a bit longer than 2 hours. but, if they didn't have any restrictions, the car park would be full of staff from the General Hospital who'd leave their cars there all day. ecuk268
  • Score: -4

1:43pm Fri 7 Feb 14

SotonLad says...

It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)
It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it) SotonLad
  • Score: -12

1:52pm Fri 7 Feb 14

mickey01 says...

SotonLad wrote:
It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)
well said ! there are allways drivers who think the signs dont apply to them and then cry foul when caught . there has been signs there for years and they are easily seen as are most signs but some people are just plain ignorant and think they are above the law . follow the law simples and going by the amount of cars i see in the range car parks then this will have no effect on trade whatsoever
[quote][p][bold]SotonLad[/bold] wrote: It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)[/p][/quote]well said ! there are allways drivers who think the signs dont apply to them and then cry foul when caught . there has been signs there for years and they are easily seen as are most signs but some people are just plain ignorant and think they are above the law . follow the law simples and going by the amount of cars i see in the range car parks then this will have no effect on trade whatsoever mickey01
  • Score: -15

2:33pm Fri 7 Feb 14

saintjimbob says...

mickey01 wrote:
SotonLad wrote:
It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)
well said ! there are allways drivers who think the signs dont apply to them and then cry foul when caught . there has been signs there for years and they are easily seen as are most signs but some people are just plain ignorant and think they are above the law . follow the law simples and going by the amount of cars i see in the range car parks then this will have no effect on trade whatsoever
There were no signs visible at The Range so how is someone supposed to know the limits to their stay?
[quote][p][bold]mickey01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SotonLad[/bold] wrote: It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)[/p][/quote]well said ! there are allways drivers who think the signs dont apply to them and then cry foul when caught . there has been signs there for years and they are easily seen as are most signs but some people are just plain ignorant and think they are above the law . follow the law simples and going by the amount of cars i see in the range car parks then this will have no effect on trade whatsoever[/p][/quote]There were no signs visible at The Range so how is someone supposed to know the limits to their stay? saintjimbob
  • Score: 13

2:37pm Fri 7 Feb 14

saintjimbob says...

Zeo wrote:
I go to that range all the time, it's sign posted with details saying 2 hours free parking. The cameras are so easy to see as you drive into the range/
The signs have only been placed at the entrance within the last 12 months. The time period we have been referring to is before then when the only sign we found was on the store wall behind hoardings. It was discovered after we had received notice through the post.
[quote][p][bold]Zeo[/bold] wrote: I go to that range all the time, it's sign posted with details saying 2 hours free parking. The cameras are so easy to see as you drive into the range/[/p][/quote]The signs have only been placed at the entrance within the last 12 months. The time period we have been referring to is before then when the only sign we found was on the store wall behind hoardings. It was discovered after we had received notice through the post. saintjimbob
  • Score: 11

2:42pm Fri 7 Feb 14

saintjimbob says...

max8687 wrote:
i was shopping in there with my mum in 2012, at the time we didnt see any signs , we were parked in a disabled bay, as my mum has a blue badge, i think the signs used to be up high, not sure if they still are, but we had lunch in there, we spent over £120.00, left and came home, a few weeks later, i recived £100 fine, i went straight up there, with our receipt, told them at the desk, very clearly, that i will not be paying the fine, as the signs were not put in places that you would see them, i showed them my receipt, and told them if they dont cancel the ticket, i will return all our shopping, and never shop in there again, well they said they can cancel it on the system, so i left, 4 weeks later i had a final demand, so i went back up there and waited until they canceled my ticket, we have never been in there again,
That was what happened with my wife. Unfortunately the harassment from Parking eye and lies from the store manager lead us to this legal battle which we are winning!
We have since found out that The Range do not own the land nor do Parking eye. The land owner has not authorised Parking eye to police the site either!
[quote][p][bold]max8687[/bold] wrote: i was shopping in there with my mum in 2012, at the time we didnt see any signs , we were parked in a disabled bay, as my mum has a blue badge, i think the signs used to be up high, not sure if they still are, but we had lunch in there, we spent over £120.00, left and came home, a few weeks later, i recived £100 fine, i went straight up there, with our receipt, told them at the desk, very clearly, that i will not be paying the fine, as the signs were not put in places that you would see them, i showed them my receipt, and told them if they dont cancel the ticket, i will return all our shopping, and never shop in there again, well they said they can cancel it on the system, so i left, 4 weeks later i had a final demand, so i went back up there and waited until they canceled my ticket, we have never been in there again,[/p][/quote]That was what happened with my wife. Unfortunately the harassment from Parking eye and lies from the store manager lead us to this legal battle which we are winning! We have since found out that The Range do not own the land nor do Parking eye. The land owner has not authorised Parking eye to police the site either! saintjimbob
  • Score: 15

4:28pm Fri 7 Feb 14

gilbertratchet says...

SotonLad wrote:
It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)
You're not allowed to say that on the Echo. We have to condemn everyone and everything that has the audacity to charge for anything at all. The Echo Morons(tm) demand everything for free.
[quote][p][bold]SotonLad[/bold] wrote: It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)[/p][/quote]You're not allowed to say that on the Echo. We have to condemn everyone and everything that has the audacity to charge for anything at all. The Echo Morons(tm) demand everything for free. gilbertratchet
  • Score: -8

4:45pm Fri 7 Feb 14

bistoboys says...

One poster has suggested that motorists should just play by the rules. They did, actually, as that was the decision of the court. There was nothing in the old signage which made it wrong to stay for more than two hours.

Now, the old signage was removed around the 18th December 2013 and replaced with what is there now. Some may think that as ParkingEye heard what the judge said and replaced the signs that gives added weight to a claim for their money back.

Oddly enough, even with the changed signage it appears that ParkingEye still cannot demand money from motorists for themselves because up in Barrow in Furness the Court decided that ParkingEye (managing the Range up there) had no right to sue motorists. All in all it looks like a bad month for Parking Eye/The Range

If anyone paid ParkingEye, following a claim from it that ParkingEye was entitled to £100 or whatever, because you had parked for more than two hours, then why not write to the Company at PO Box 565, Chorley
PR6 6HT provide them with your details and ask for your money back on the basis that you did not do anything wrong according to this case. If they decline to reimburse then why not contact the store. After all ParkingEye are the agents of the Company and the actions of an agent, in law, are those of the principal. CDS (Superstores International) Limited at Tamar House, Plymouth, Devon, PL6 7PP. Failing that why not ask your local store manager I am sure that he will be happy to help.

Bistoboys
One poster has suggested that motorists should just play by the rules. They did, actually, as that was the decision of the court. There was nothing in the old signage which made it wrong to stay for more than two hours. Now, the old signage was removed around the 18th December 2013 and replaced with what is there now. Some may think that as ParkingEye heard what the judge said and replaced the signs that gives added weight to a claim for their money back. Oddly enough, even with the changed signage it appears that ParkingEye still cannot demand money from motorists for themselves because up in Barrow in Furness the Court decided that ParkingEye (managing the Range up there) had no right to sue motorists. All in all it looks like a bad month for Parking Eye/The Range If anyone paid ParkingEye, following a claim from it that ParkingEye was entitled to £100 or whatever, because you had parked for more than two hours, then why not write to the Company at PO Box 565, Chorley PR6 6HT provide them with your details and ask for your money back on the basis that you did not do anything wrong according to this case. If they decline to reimburse then why not contact the store. After all ParkingEye are the agents of the Company and the actions of an agent, in law, are those of the principal. CDS (Superstores International) Limited at Tamar House, Plymouth, Devon, PL6 7PP. Failing that why not ask your local store manager I am sure that he will be happy to help. Bistoboys bistoboys
  • Score: 10

4:53pm Fri 7 Feb 14

DBC says...

Another "elephant in the room" applying to both Parking Eye and other parking companies is that both County Court judges and POPLA adjudicators have ruled that they cannot claim for that amount of money. This is because it does not represent the actual "loss" that's been suffered either by the land owner of the parking company. Just by overstaying a few minutes does not cause anyone a "loss", especially the £100 claimed by Parking Eye.
Another "elephant in the room" applying to both Parking Eye and other parking companies is that both County Court judges and POPLA adjudicators have ruled that they cannot claim for that amount of money. This is because it does not represent the actual "loss" that's been suffered either by the land owner of the parking company. Just by overstaying a few minutes does not cause anyone a "loss", especially the £100 claimed by Parking Eye. DBC
  • Score: 16

6:05pm Fri 7 Feb 14

03alpe01 says...

Ahhh, good ol' Parking Eye! I remember supposedly getting caught out by them down Town Quay back in 2012. I was always under the impression that the Town Quay Car Park was free after 6pm and the signs weren't clearly visible so when the letter came I was most surprised. I wrote back to them told them flat up I wouldn't be paying and so they persisted and they persisted. I was threatened with all this "Final Warning Notice" baloney they come out with on their Police like letters. Fair play to everyone whose fought back. Also, if the land owners didn't give Parking Eye the right to police the car park, then who did???
Ahhh, good ol' Parking Eye! I remember supposedly getting caught out by them down Town Quay back in 2012. I was always under the impression that the Town Quay Car Park was free after 6pm and the signs weren't clearly visible so when the letter came I was most surprised. I wrote back to them told them flat up I wouldn't be paying and so they persisted and they persisted. I was threatened with all this "Final Warning Notice" baloney they come out with on their Police like letters. Fair play to everyone whose fought back. Also, if the land owners didn't give Parking Eye the right to police the car park, then who did??? 03alpe01
  • Score: 11

6:36pm Fri 7 Feb 14

bistoboys says...

Also, if the land owners didn't give Parking Eye the right to police the car park, then who did???

There are two issues here
1. ParkingEye was not able to provide any evidence that the Range had granted them the necessary rights to manage the car park and to demand money from motorists in the way that they were doing.
2. Parking Eye and the Range did not produce a copy of any contract in court but did say that they had one.

Interesting approach to evidence.

Up in Barrow ParkingEye said they had a contract with the Range but neither side produced it

It must be so annoying when Courts ask for evidence.

Bistoboys
Also, if the land owners didn't give Parking Eye the right to police the car park, then who did??? There are two issues here 1. ParkingEye was not able to provide any evidence that the Range had granted them the necessary rights to manage the car park and to demand money from motorists in the way that they were doing. 2. Parking Eye and the Range did not produce a copy of any contract in court but did say that they had one. Interesting approach to evidence. Up in Barrow ParkingEye said they had a contract with the Range but neither side produced it It must be so annoying when Courts ask for evidence. Bistoboys bistoboys
  • Score: 9

6:56pm Fri 7 Feb 14

CLemon says...

I am one of the two in the article. The article didn't make it clear that ParkingEye lost the case on TWO counts: 1. No contract 2. The judge agreed with Sue and me that the signs did not state that parking for more than two hours would result in £100 parking charge. He said that the wording on the signs was "not clear and unambiguous"
After the hearing we made a formal complaint to the British Parking Association (who set the rules the parking companies have to follow) and ParkingEye immediately changed the wording on the signs - thereby acknowledging that they had been in the wrong.
If ParkingEye had not broken the rules they wouldn't have lost the court case.
Please note that ParkingEye has not been sanctioned in any way for breaking the rules by the BPA so do try to get any parking charges back (follow the advice given by bistoboys above). You could also try contacting your local Trading Standards.
I am one of the two in the article. The article didn't make it clear that ParkingEye lost the case on TWO counts: 1. No contract 2. The judge agreed with Sue and me that the signs did not state that parking for more than two hours would result in £100 parking charge. He said that the wording on the signs was "not clear and unambiguous" After the hearing we made a formal complaint to the British Parking Association (who set the rules the parking companies have to follow) and ParkingEye immediately changed the wording on the signs - thereby acknowledging that they had been in the wrong. If ParkingEye had not broken the rules they wouldn't have lost the court case. Please note that ParkingEye has not been sanctioned in any way for breaking the rules by the BPA so do try to get any parking charges back (follow the advice given by bistoboys above). You could also try contacting your local Trading Standards. CLemon
  • Score: 11

7:02pm Fri 7 Feb 14

DBC says...

Of course the BPA Ltd would never dare criticise Parking Eye. Don't forget that the BPA Ltd (note the Ltd) is not an industry watchdog or regulator. It's a cosy trade association that seems to have the motto "Parking Companies Good, Motorists Bad".
Of course the BPA Ltd would never dare criticise Parking Eye. Don't forget that the BPA Ltd (note the Ltd) is not an industry watchdog or regulator. It's a cosy trade association that seems to have the motto "Parking Companies Good, Motorists Bad". DBC
  • Score: 9

7:35pm Fri 7 Feb 14

03alpe01 says...

Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies
Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies 03alpe01
  • Score: 7

7:38pm Fri 7 Feb 14

DBC says...

03alpe01 wrote:
Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies
Because if they did, they would lose the membership fees paid by Parking Eye and it would look bad if they biggest member leaves their cosy little club.
[quote][p][bold]03alpe01[/bold] wrote: Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies[/p][/quote]Because if they did, they would lose the membership fees paid by Parking Eye and it would look bad if they biggest member leaves their cosy little club. DBC
  • Score: 9

7:59pm Fri 7 Feb 14

03alpe01 says...

DBC wrote:
03alpe01 wrote:
Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies
Because if they did, they would lose the membership fees paid by Parking Eye and it would look bad if they biggest member leaves their cosy little club.
Are Parking Eye the biggest member of BPA?
[quote][p][bold]DBC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]03alpe01[/bold] wrote: Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies[/p][/quote]Because if they did, they would lose the membership fees paid by Parking Eye and it would look bad if they biggest member leaves their cosy little club.[/p][/quote]Are Parking Eye the biggest member of BPA? 03alpe01
  • Score: 5

8:34pm Fri 7 Feb 14

SotonLad says...

CLemon wrote:
I am one of the two in the article. The article didn't make it clear that ParkingEye lost the case on TWO counts: 1. No contract 2. The judge agreed with Sue and me that the signs did not state that parking for more than two hours would result in £100 parking charge. He said that the wording on the signs was "not clear and unambiguous"
After the hearing we made a formal complaint to the British Parking Association (who set the rules the parking companies have to follow) and ParkingEye immediately changed the wording on the signs - thereby acknowledging that they had been in the wrong.
If ParkingEye had not broken the rules they wouldn't have lost the court case.
Please note that ParkingEye has not been sanctioned in any way for breaking the rules by the BPA so do try to get any parking charges back (follow the advice given by bistoboys above). You could also try contacting your local Trading Standards.
Why did you park there for so long? Where you in the store for more than 2 hours?
[quote][p][bold]CLemon[/bold] wrote: I am one of the two in the article. The article didn't make it clear that ParkingEye lost the case on TWO counts: 1. No contract 2. The judge agreed with Sue and me that the signs did not state that parking for more than two hours would result in £100 parking charge. He said that the wording on the signs was "not clear and unambiguous" After the hearing we made a formal complaint to the British Parking Association (who set the rules the parking companies have to follow) and ParkingEye immediately changed the wording on the signs - thereby acknowledging that they had been in the wrong. If ParkingEye had not broken the rules they wouldn't have lost the court case. Please note that ParkingEye has not been sanctioned in any way for breaking the rules by the BPA so do try to get any parking charges back (follow the advice given by bistoboys above). You could also try contacting your local Trading Standards.[/p][/quote]Why did you park there for so long? Where you in the store for more than 2 hours? SotonLad
  • Score: -5

9:30pm Fri 7 Feb 14

renard41 says...

03alpe01 wrote:
Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies
Unfortunately, this crap is common to ALL private parking companies.

They are rightly regarded as 'scammers' and 'pirates', who falsely pretend to have the lawful right to 'fine' drivers and so fool people into paying exorbitant 'penalties'. Some even issue 'fines' for not having a current vehicle excise disc - what business is that of theirs?

ANYONE who gets a ticket from ANY private parking company should not pay without studying the advice given by many reputable websites. Just put 'private parking charges' (or similar) into Google etc., and do your homework. You will be amazed at what a scam it all is!
[quote][p][bold]03alpe01[/bold] wrote: Why don't BPA just boot Parking Eye off their list? You don't get this crap with other private parking companies[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, this crap is common to ALL private parking companies. They are rightly regarded as 'scammers' and 'pirates', who falsely pretend to have the lawful right to 'fine' drivers and so fool people into paying exorbitant 'penalties'. Some even issue 'fines' for not having a current vehicle excise disc - what business is that of theirs? ANYONE who gets a ticket from ANY private parking company should not pay without studying the advice given by many reputable websites. Just put 'private parking charges' (or similar) into Google etc., and do your homework. You will be amazed at what a scam it all is! renard41
  • Score: 9

12:57am Sat 8 Feb 14

BeyondImagination says...

They should protect themselves against the all day parkers. So tell drivers they have 2 hours and invoice them if they stay more than 3. PEye is nothing more than a money making scam.
They should protect themselves against the all day parkers. So tell drivers they have 2 hours and invoice them if they stay more than 3. PEye is nothing more than a money making scam. BeyondImagination
  • Score: 7

10:12am Sat 8 Feb 14

sburman says...

mickey01 wrote:
SotonLad wrote:
It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)
well said ! there are allways drivers who think the signs dont apply to them and then cry foul when caught . there has been signs there for years and they are easily seen as are most signs but some people are just plain ignorant and think they are above the law . follow the law simples and going by the amount of cars i see in the range car parks then this will have no effect on trade whatsoever
There will always be peole who think the rules do not apply to them.
[quote][p][bold]mickey01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SotonLad[/bold] wrote: It's irrelevant what you call it - a fine, a penalty charge, etc... It's a car park. The signs say you can stay for a certain amount of time. Abide by the rules. If you don't you risk being out of pocket. If you don't like the rules take your business elsewhere. Simple (like those that get caught and run to the press moaning about it)[/p][/quote]well said ! there are allways drivers who think the signs dont apply to them and then cry foul when caught . there has been signs there for years and they are easily seen as are most signs but some people are just plain ignorant and think they are above the law . follow the law simples and going by the amount of cars i see in the range car parks then this will have no effect on trade whatsoever[/p][/quote]There will always be peole who think the rules do not apply to them. sburman
  • Score: -6

7:39pm Sat 8 Feb 14

bistoboys says...

Interestingly it was parkingEye that was found not to have complied with the law and that the ladies had done no worng.

The accounts of the DVLA at August last year revealed a surplus (profit to you and me) of about £10m. ParkingEye contribute about 25% of that figure, at the current rate of buying our personal data, to the DVLA coffers.

Its a simple question if someone deamnds money they are not legally entitled to should they hang on to it?

Bistoboys
Interestingly it was parkingEye that was found not to have complied with the law and that the ladies had done no worng. The accounts of the DVLA at August last year revealed a surplus (profit to you and me) of about £10m. ParkingEye contribute about 25% of that figure, at the current rate of buying our personal data, to the DVLA coffers. Its a simple question if someone deamnds money they are not legally entitled to should they hang on to it? Bistoboys bistoboys
  • Score: 5

7:54pm Sat 8 Feb 14

S Pance says...

Check out this image: http://statics.192.c
om/estreet/original/
large/1222/12226632.
jpg and others available on Google images.

You will clearly see that the signs have only recently been erected as an afterthought.

Whilst the Range may or may not had a contract with Parking Eye, the bright yellow signs were clearly not there.

As there were no clear signs, Parking Eye must refund people.
Check out this image: http://statics.192.c om/estreet/original/ large/1222/12226632. jpg and others available on Google images. You will clearly see that the signs have only recently been erected as an afterthought. Whilst the Range may or may not had a contract with Parking Eye, the bright yellow signs were clearly not there. As there were no clear signs, Parking Eye must refund people. S Pance
  • Score: 7

11:36pm Sat 8 Feb 14

southy says...

Echo can you check up on a point of law, I believe there is a short time limit from the day in question to the day you get the letter.
Echo can you check up on a point of law, I believe there is a short time limit from the day in question to the day you get the letter. southy
  • Score: 0

3:33pm Sun 9 Feb 14

Redhaired22 says...

TIL 7468 wrote:
My wife and I pulled into Town quay started rowing and then drove home.
The ticket arrived about 6 months later.
Of course I appealed as we were only there ten minutes and in the dark the tiny writing on the signage is impossible to read whilst in the car.
Of course they lost that appeal letter.
So in the end I've kept correspondence so I said come and get me because I've got nothing!
If people see the Martin Lewis MoneySaving website, apparently you shouldn't mention the word 'Appeal' in any correspondence. He gives a lot of good advice. Apparently 45% of these cases against private firms get dismissed at Court level, so worth fighting.

Well done ladies!
[quote][p][bold]TIL 7468[/bold] wrote: My wife and I pulled into Town quay started rowing and then drove home. The ticket arrived about 6 months later. Of course I appealed as we were only there ten minutes and in the dark the tiny writing on the signage is impossible to read whilst in the car. Of course they lost that appeal letter. So in the end I've kept correspondence so I said come and get me because I've got nothing![/p][/quote]If people see the Martin Lewis MoneySaving website, apparently you shouldn't mention the word 'Appeal' in any correspondence. He gives a lot of good advice. Apparently 45% of these cases against private firms get dismissed at Court level, so worth fighting. Well done ladies! Redhaired22
  • Score: 3

10:58pm Sun 9 Feb 14

renard41 says...

southy wrote:
Echo can you check up on a point of law, I believe there is a short time limit from the day in question to the day you get the letter.
You don't need the Echo to do this for you!
Simply do as I recommended above - Google 'private parking charges' and you will find all the information you require.
It is vital to realise that private parking companies CANNOT fine or penalise anyone! The tickets they issue are deliberately designed into fooling people to think otherwise, and most people fall for it, to their detriment.
These companies are only lawfully entitled to recover any losses they may have incurred by your actions. So what 'loss' have they incurred when someone overstays in a car park? Certainly not the exorbitant sums they try to extort from drivers!
People, if you get a ticket, do not pay it without doing the homework recommended above by me and others!
Most people don't object to paying reasonable parking charges. They do resent being ripped off by scamming private parking companies.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Echo can you check up on a point of law, I believe there is a short time limit from the day in question to the day you get the letter.[/p][/quote]You don't need the Echo to do this for you! Simply do as I recommended above - Google 'private parking charges' and you will find all the information you require. It is vital to realise that private parking companies CANNOT fine or penalise anyone! The tickets they issue are deliberately designed into fooling people to think otherwise, and most people fall for it, to their detriment. These companies are only lawfully entitled to recover any losses they may have incurred by your actions. So what 'loss' have they incurred when someone overstays in a car park? Certainly not the exorbitant sums they try to extort from drivers! People, if you get a ticket, do not pay it without doing the homework recommended above by me and others! Most people don't object to paying reasonable parking charges. They do resent being ripped off by scamming private parking companies. renard41
  • Score: 5

11:33pm Sun 9 Feb 14

DannyMan says...

Ironic that some people are blithering on about the "law" and the "rules" when it was actually a court of law that found in favour of these two ladies!
Ironic that some people are blithering on about the "law" and the "rules" when it was actually a court of law that found in favour of these two ladies! DannyMan
  • Score: 3

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