Hampshire 'should have devolved powers like Scotland and Wales'

Cllr Roy Perry

Cllr Roy Perry

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Parliamentary Correspondent

INDEPENDENCE is the in word in politics at moment – now council chiefs in Hampshire are following the Scottish parliament by demanding more control over their own affairs.

The Conservative-run authority has joined forces with other county councils to call for radical tax and borrowing powers and greater control over key public services.

The package would give Hampshire control over lucrative receipts from stamp duty and business rates – and even the right to raise its own bonds.

And it would go much further than the City Deal recently agreed for Southampton and Portsmouth, as well as for England’s other big cities.

Councillor Roy Perry, Hampshire’s Conservative leader, pointed out the combined population of Hampshire, Southampton and Portsmouth was similar to that of Wales and half that of Scotland.

And he said: “People in the shire counties of England are not being given the same responsibilities as in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland – and that’s unacceptable.

“The Government is talking about increasing legislative devolution to Wales and Scotland, but it’s high time to start trusting English people to run their own affairs.

“If they trust the people of Scotland to run education, then why not trust the people of Hampshire, instead of controlling everything from London?”

Cllr Perry urged ministers not to leave Hampshire in the slow lane of devolving powers in England, because the focus was on signing City Deals.

He said: “It’s not just the cities of England that are wealth-creating areas. Shire areas like Hampshire are also important.

“We are facing a huge increase in demand for care, because there are increasing numbers of older people, and we need certainty about our finances.”

Cllr Perry spoke out as the Commons local government select committee carries out an inquiry into “fiscal devolution” within England.

Hampshire is a member of the 36-strong County Councils Network, which has proposed a “more ambitious approach”, including devolution of:

• All of business rates – at present, only a proportion are retained by councils.

• Stamp duty – something proposed for London, by Mayor Boris Johnson.

• Capital gains on property development.

• A proportion of extra tax revenues from local economic growth – an “earn back” scheme, being pioneered in Manchester.

• Skills funding and employment programmes.

• Increased borrowing – through municipal bonds.

Cllr Perry said he had doubts about some of the ideas – including bonds – but said: “We support this submission. These are the things we are asking the Government to look at. Stamp duty is definitely one property tax that should be considered for local authorities – we would not be against that at all.”

He said the need for extra powers was particularly acute in the county, because it receives lower funding than other shires. Its grant per head from Whitehall was just £116, far less than Essex (£181) and Kent (£191) – which he described as “inexplicable”.

Ministers will be required to respond to the select committee’s report, due to be published in the next few months.

Comments (13)

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6:15am Tue 4 Mar 14

skeptik says...

Very little faith or trust in national politics at present less in local politics. However, change is needed, it may lead to attracting better people than politics appears to attract now. We elect and hope each and every time yet the result is the same - we do not like change and we say we do not like failure and yet we will carry on supporting the same failing system.
Very little faith or trust in national politics at present less in local politics. However, change is needed, it may lead to attracting better people than politics appears to attract now. We elect and hope each and every time yet the result is the same - we do not like change and we say we do not like failure and yet we will carry on supporting the same failing system. skeptik
  • Score: 4

7:33am Tue 4 Mar 14

Saxon5 says...

Maybe if he is allowed to borrow money and run up huge debts on our behalf he will spend less time on trivia like granting daft 30mph speed limits on perfectly safe unrestricted main roads that have a couple of big houses on. At the end of the day he just wants more of our cash - I hope central government keeps these council administrators in their boxes.
Maybe if he is allowed to borrow money and run up huge debts on our behalf he will spend less time on trivia like granting daft 30mph speed limits on perfectly safe unrestricted main roads that have a couple of big houses on. At the end of the day he just wants more of our cash - I hope central government keeps these council administrators in their boxes. Saxon5
  • Score: 4

7:54am Tue 4 Mar 14

loosehead says...

why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?
why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it? loosehead
  • Score: -3

8:04am Tue 4 Mar 14

KSO16R says...

loosehead wrote:
why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?
Are you asking us or telling us ?
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?[/p][/quote]Are you asking us or telling us ? KSO16R
  • Score: 1

8:17am Tue 4 Mar 14

FoysCornerBoy says...

loosehead wrote:
why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?
Oddly enough, I agree with you on this one. I favour a model for a democratically elected assemblies for all English regions including Wessex (e.g. Southampton, Hampshire, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, Wiltshire, Dorset, Poole and Bournemouth) whose population is larger than Wales and several Baltic states. Whitehall would need to give up a whole range of state functions (health, higher education, transport, major planning projects etc.) to this regional tier of government. To reduce unnecessary bureaucracy I would suggest that a Wessex regional assembly is sustained by a number of elected single tier unitary authorities serving populations of about 400,000 (except the Island due to its exceptional geography). This would mean expanding Southampton's and Portsmouth's current administrative boundaries, merging Bournemouth with Poole and getting rid of the complex system of existing existing county and district councils. We could also save loads of money by having fewer or even combined police and fire authorities.

I somehow think that the established political parties in this part of the world would baulk at my suggestion for the simple reason that they won't be able to exert control over it.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?[/p][/quote]Oddly enough, I agree with you on this one. I favour a model for a democratically elected assemblies for all English regions including Wessex (e.g. Southampton, Hampshire, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, Wiltshire, Dorset, Poole and Bournemouth) whose population is larger than Wales and several Baltic states. Whitehall would need to give up a whole range of state functions (health, higher education, transport, major planning projects etc.) to this regional tier of government. To reduce unnecessary bureaucracy I would suggest that a Wessex regional assembly is sustained by a number of elected single tier unitary authorities serving populations of about 400,000 (except the Island due to its exceptional geography). This would mean expanding Southampton's and Portsmouth's current administrative boundaries, merging Bournemouth with Poole and getting rid of the complex system of existing existing county and district councils. We could also save loads of money by having fewer or even combined police and fire authorities. I somehow think that the established political parties in this part of the world would baulk at my suggestion for the simple reason that they won't be able to exert control over it. FoysCornerBoy
  • Score: 7

8:57am Tue 4 Mar 14

Mousetrap says...

FoysCornerBoy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?
Oddly enough, I agree with you on this one. I favour a model for a democratically elected assemblies for all English regions including Wessex (e.g. Southampton, Hampshire, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, Wiltshire, Dorset, Poole and Bournemouth) whose population is larger than Wales and several Baltic states. Whitehall would need to give up a whole range of state functions (health, higher education, transport, major planning projects etc.) to this regional tier of government. To reduce unnecessary bureaucracy I would suggest that a Wessex regional assembly is sustained by a number of elected single tier unitary authorities serving populations of about 400,000 (except the Island due to its exceptional geography). This would mean expanding Southampton's and Portsmouth's current administrative boundaries, merging Bournemouth with Poole and getting rid of the complex system of existing existing county and district councils. We could also save loads of money by having fewer or even combined police and fire authorities.

I somehow think that the established political parties in this part of the world would baulk at my suggestion for the simple reason that they won't be able to exert control over it.
They also know nothing about history!
[quote][p][bold]FoysCornerBoy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?[/p][/quote]Oddly enough, I agree with you on this one. I favour a model for a democratically elected assemblies for all English regions including Wessex (e.g. Southampton, Hampshire, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, Wiltshire, Dorset, Poole and Bournemouth) whose population is larger than Wales and several Baltic states. Whitehall would need to give up a whole range of state functions (health, higher education, transport, major planning projects etc.) to this regional tier of government. To reduce unnecessary bureaucracy I would suggest that a Wessex regional assembly is sustained by a number of elected single tier unitary authorities serving populations of about 400,000 (except the Island due to its exceptional geography). This would mean expanding Southampton's and Portsmouth's current administrative boundaries, merging Bournemouth with Poole and getting rid of the complex system of existing existing county and district councils. We could also save loads of money by having fewer or even combined police and fire authorities. I somehow think that the established political parties in this part of the world would baulk at my suggestion for the simple reason that they won't be able to exert control over it.[/p][/quote]They also know nothing about history! Mousetrap
  • Score: -4

9:00am Tue 4 Mar 14

Bobs Your Uncle ? says...

in a nutshell ,cut the north and poor northerners loose ?
in a nutshell ,cut the north and poor northerners loose ? Bobs Your Uncle ?
  • Score: -3

9:56am Tue 4 Mar 14

Home Rule for England says...

"it’s high time to start trusting English people to run their own affairs"

Yes Cllr Perry it is. In fact it is time that England had her own English Parliament English Government and English First Minister to look after the interests of the people of England in the same way that Alex Salmond looks after the people of Scotland.
For a start the Tories could honour their manifesto pledge to stop Scottish Welsh and N.Irish MP's voting on English matters. They have so far failed to do this.
England is currently divided into eighty three counties plus London. Is Cllr Perry really suggesting that we have eighty three different NHS's, eighty three education systems, eighty three different systems of corporation tax, rates of income tax and so on? These are all devolved to Scotland Wales and N.Ireland so presumably he is?
Scotland has the power to vary income tax. Do we want to have the situation where someone working in Hampshire pays a different rate of income tax to someone living in say Dorset? What about university tuition fees? A student from Hampshire pays fees but a student from Surrey doesn't and so on. Prescriptions are free in Wales. Do we want a system whereby a patient in Hampshire pays £7.85 because that's what HCC have decided should be paid whereas different priorities in Sussex mean they are free?
This would be just one big post code lottery and the mind boggles at the cost of administering it all with an army of civil servants pushing bits of paper around.
No we don't. What really needs to happen is for England to have her own parliament elected by proportional representation to give England a fair system of government.
"it’s high time to start trusting English people to run their own affairs" Yes Cllr Perry it is. In fact it is time that England had her own English Parliament English Government and English First Minister to look after the interests of the people of England in the same way that Alex Salmond looks after the people of Scotland. For a start the Tories could honour their manifesto pledge to stop Scottish Welsh and N.Irish MP's voting on English matters. They have so far failed to do this. England is currently divided into eighty three counties plus London. Is Cllr Perry really suggesting that we have eighty three different NHS's, eighty three education systems, eighty three different systems of corporation tax, rates of income tax and so on? These are all devolved to Scotland Wales and N.Ireland so presumably he is? Scotland has the power to vary income tax. Do we want to have the situation where someone working in Hampshire pays a different rate of income tax to someone living in say Dorset? What about university tuition fees? A student from Hampshire pays fees but a student from Surrey doesn't and so on. Prescriptions are free in Wales. Do we want a system whereby a patient in Hampshire pays £7.85 because that's what HCC have decided should be paid whereas different priorities in Sussex mean they are free? This would be just one big post code lottery and the mind boggles at the cost of administering it all with an army of civil servants pushing bits of paper around. No we don't. What really needs to happen is for England to have her own parliament elected by proportional representation to give England a fair system of government. Home Rule for England
  • Score: -2

10:01am Tue 4 Mar 14

Home Rule for England says...

KSO16R wrote:
loosehead wrote:
why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?
Are you asking us or telling us ?
England is a country in her own right and has been so for over a thousand years. I don't want England broken up into regions and judging by the 78% against rejection of a NE England elected regional assembly, nor do most English people.
[quote][p][bold]KSO16R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?[/p][/quote]Are you asking us or telling us ?[/p][/quote]England is a country in her own right and has been so for over a thousand years. I don't want England broken up into regions and judging by the 78% against rejection of a NE England elected regional assembly, nor do most English people. Home Rule for England
  • Score: -2

10:57am Tue 4 Mar 14

good-gosh says...

I thought the idea of Westminster collecting all these taxes was so they could redistribute it to more needy areas – like up North where the natives seem to be more dependent on the state for everything. And there is the little problem of paying for the Forces, the NHS and the national welfare bills. Not much left, if anything, for the County to take after that lot is deducted.
I thought the idea of Westminster collecting all these taxes was so they could redistribute it to more needy areas – like up North where the natives seem to be more dependent on the state for everything. And there is the little problem of paying for the Forces, the NHS and the national welfare bills. Not much left, if anything, for the County to take after that lot is deducted. good-gosh
  • Score: 0

12:20pm Tue 4 Mar 14

Bagamn says...

Councillor Perry is just trying to outdo his egotistical predecessor and trying to be a BIG man. Alec Salmon is a man with a dream of Leadership, this can not be acquired at County level.
Councillor Perry is just trying to outdo his egotistical predecessor and trying to be a BIG man. Alec Salmon is a man with a dream of Leadership, this can not be acquired at County level. Bagamn
  • Score: 1

12:42pm Tue 4 Mar 14

loosehead says...

FoysCornerBoy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?
Oddly enough, I agree with you on this one. I favour a model for a democratically elected assemblies for all English regions including Wessex (e.g. Southampton, Hampshire, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, Wiltshire, Dorset, Poole and Bournemouth) whose population is larger than Wales and several Baltic states. Whitehall would need to give up a whole range of state functions (health, higher education, transport, major planning projects etc.) to this regional tier of government. To reduce unnecessary bureaucracy I would suggest that a Wessex regional assembly is sustained by a number of elected single tier unitary authorities serving populations of about 400,000 (except the Island due to its exceptional geography). This would mean expanding Southampton's and Portsmouth's current administrative boundaries, merging Bournemouth with Poole and getting rid of the complex system of existing existing county and district councils. We could also save loads of money by having fewer or even combined police and fire authorities.

I somehow think that the established political parties in this part of the world would baulk at my suggestion for the simple reason that they won't be able to exert control over it.
if i remember my history correctly this was one nation before the Romans & they called Scotland Scotia as they couldn't control or beat the Northern Ancient Briton tribes so no such country as Scotland England or Wales up until then.
Hadrians wall was built to defend the Romans from those Northern Tribes & then they became what we now call the Scottish Nation.
Wales was the Ancient Britons/Celts & England came from the Gaelic word Ingly/Engly ( don't know Gaelic) or invaders which is what they called the Saxons who set up separate Kingdoms/countries & one of these was Wessex so Wessex has much right to claim independence as Scotland & Wales has .
In truth we were all one country before the Romans & so was Ireland part of the Celtic country as it was the Romans who called us (Ireland as well) Grand Brittania & the peoples Britons many of whom fled to Brittany hence the name
[quote][p][bold]FoysCornerBoy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: why not go for Independence for Wessex as it was a country in it's own right all those years ago wasn't it?[/p][/quote]Oddly enough, I agree with you on this one. I favour a model for a democratically elected assemblies for all English regions including Wessex (e.g. Southampton, Hampshire, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, Wiltshire, Dorset, Poole and Bournemouth) whose population is larger than Wales and several Baltic states. Whitehall would need to give up a whole range of state functions (health, higher education, transport, major planning projects etc.) to this regional tier of government. To reduce unnecessary bureaucracy I would suggest that a Wessex regional assembly is sustained by a number of elected single tier unitary authorities serving populations of about 400,000 (except the Island due to its exceptional geography). This would mean expanding Southampton's and Portsmouth's current administrative boundaries, merging Bournemouth with Poole and getting rid of the complex system of existing existing county and district councils. We could also save loads of money by having fewer or even combined police and fire authorities. I somehow think that the established political parties in this part of the world would baulk at my suggestion for the simple reason that they won't be able to exert control over it.[/p][/quote]if i remember my history correctly this was one nation before the Romans & they called Scotland Scotia as they couldn't control or beat the Northern Ancient Briton tribes so no such country as Scotland England or Wales up until then. Hadrians wall was built to defend the Romans from those Northern Tribes & then they became what we now call the Scottish Nation. Wales was the Ancient Britons/Celts & England came from the Gaelic word Ingly/Engly ( don't know Gaelic) or invaders which is what they called the Saxons who set up separate Kingdoms/countries & one of these was Wessex so Wessex has much right to claim independence as Scotland & Wales has . In truth we were all one country before the Romans & so was Ireland part of the Celtic country as it was the Romans who called us (Ireland as well) Grand Brittania & the peoples Britons many of whom fled to Brittany hence the name loosehead
  • Score: -5

12:51pm Tue 4 Mar 14

loosehead says...

My last post was to show there was never a Scotland or Wales or England so if two of these are claiming historic rights of Nation hood then they are wrong & if granted why not the separate Saxon Countries of Mercia Wessex etc;
My last post was to show there was never a Scotland or Wales or England so if two of these are claiming historic rights of Nation hood then they are wrong & if granted why not the separate Saxon Countries of Mercia Wessex etc; loosehead
  • Score: -6

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