Go ahead for £1.2m solar farm on Hampshire country park

Go ahead for £1.2 msolar farm on Hampshire country park

Go ahead for £1.2 msolar farm on Hampshire country park

First published in News

CIVIC chiefs have given the go ahead for a £1.2m solar farm at a Hampshire country park.

Councillors from Eastleigh Borough Council unanimously approved the proposals that will see 3,600 solar panels installed at Lower Russell’s Field, Itchen Valley Country Park.

This will generate around 1 megawatt of electricity – enough to power around 260 homes a year.

Work on the scheme is expected to start in the summer.

The council says the scheme will generate a profit of more than £1m in the first 20 years and will also help contribute towards its target of producing 35 per cent renewable energy.

Daily Echo: Itchen Valley Country Park

Council leader Keith House has previously said that the panels will be on land not used by the public and far away from the visitors centre. These panels will reduce CO2 emissions by around 540 tonnes.

Hedge End, West End and Botley Local Area Committee, part of Eastleigh Borough Council, approved the plans.

This comes as plans for a solar farm near Hursley were welcomed by residents. Orta Solar wants to build on 32 acres of land off the B3043 north of Hocombe, generating enough energy for more than 1,700 homes and saving 1,800 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions each year.

Winchester City councillor Jan Warwick said renewable energy would help offer energy security, support the local economy and contribute towards lower carbon figures.

Hursley Parish Council has no problem with the plan.

Landowner Viscount Lifford declined to comment.

 

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8:19am Sun 16 Mar 14

Andy Locks Heath says...

The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .
The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution . Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: 8

8:52am Sun 16 Mar 14

Richard 51 says...

One word - nuclear
One word - nuclear Richard 51
  • Score: 9

9:03am Sun 16 Mar 14

richard57 says...

Richard 51 wrote:
One word - nuclear
correct
[quote][p][bold]Richard 51[/bold] wrote: One word - nuclear[/p][/quote]correct richard57
  • Score: 6

9:14am Sun 16 Mar 14

derek james says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .
meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge!
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .[/p][/quote]meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge! derek james
  • Score: 1

9:59am Sun 16 Mar 14

Andy Locks Heath says...

derek james wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .
meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge!
No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done.
[quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .[/p][/quote]meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge![/p][/quote]No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done. Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: -1

10:55am Sun 16 Mar 14

forest hump says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .
When any issue becomes political, any rational thinking is dumped by the wayside. Not only are politicians wrongly motivated they also lie. "Hot Standby" is a term which is (as you know) is used right now. When all the sheep put the kettle on when "come dancing" has finished, there is a tremendous surge of demand from the grid. This cannot be supported by solar or wind or any other kind of green technology alone. Just ask Denmark how many conventional power stations have been shut down due to their obsession with windmills.
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .[/p][/quote]When any issue becomes political, any rational thinking is dumped by the wayside. Not only are politicians wrongly motivated they also lie. "Hot Standby" is a term which is (as you know) is used right now. When all the sheep put the kettle on when "come dancing" has finished, there is a tremendous surge of demand from the grid. This cannot be supported by solar or wind or any other kind of green technology alone. Just ask Denmark how many conventional power stations have been shut down due to their obsession with windmills. forest hump
  • Score: 1

11:22am Sun 16 Mar 14

derek james says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
derek james wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .
meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge!
No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done.
i'm sure your woodland is properly managed the but the plain fact is even if all the woodland in the uk was devoted to making biofuel there is not enough forest for drax let alone others.as the material is sourced from other countries it would appear they are not so fussy about "sustainability". 1 million tons are sourced from the usa source which i quote is "mixed deciduous hardwood" and takes 60-100 years to grow back.moreover the price of electricity from this station is £105 per mw/hour compared to the normal price of £50.i am not against solar or renewables but just don't like distortion of facts (lies) to promote greenness
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .[/p][/quote]meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge![/p][/quote]No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done.[/p][/quote]i'm sure your woodland is properly managed the but the plain fact is even if all the woodland in the uk was devoted to making biofuel there is not enough forest for drax let alone others.as the material is sourced from other countries it would appear they are not so fussy about "sustainability". 1 million tons are sourced from the usa source which i quote is "mixed deciduous hardwood" and takes 60-100 years to grow back.moreover the price of electricity from this station is £105 per mw/hour compared to the normal price of £50.i am not against solar or renewables but just don't like distortion of facts (lies) to promote greenness derek james
  • Score: -2

12:46pm Sun 16 Mar 14

Andy Locks Heath says...

derek james wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
derek james wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .
meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge!
No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done.
i'm sure your woodland is properly managed the but the plain fact is even if all the woodland in the uk was devoted to making biofuel there is not enough forest for drax let alone others.as the material is sourced from other countries it would appear they are not so fussy about "sustainability". 1 million tons are sourced from the usa source which i quote is "mixed deciduous hardwood" and takes 60-100 years to grow back.moreover the price of electricity from this station is £105 per mw/hour compared to the normal price of £50.i am not against solar or renewables but just don't like distortion of facts (lies) to promote greenness
There is enough biomass in this country for Drax, but it takes time for markets to develop. THis country produces around 8m tonnes of timber pa which implies a potential of 3m tonnes of brash and waste that is currently burnt or left to rot. When scrap wood and other biomass sources are added to this figure there is potential for a large renewable source of biomass generation feedstock. Regarding electricity wholesale costs I don't know how much you know about the energy market but the whole concept of allowing the market to decide the best and cheapest price has been destroyed by Huhne and others, forcing renewable energy to be purchased whether needed or not. If Drax produces power at 8pm on a cold still January night when no renewables are available then its price reflects the simple fact that it has to be kept online for long hours but earning nothing at all because subsidised solar farms are trickling in unwanted power but taking what profit is available. I don't distort facts but unless you understand the entire industry you may not know what those "facts" actually infer and that applies to both the UK and to EFET (for whom I recently worked). Political interfering in energy has doubled energy bills yet still led us to the kind of defecit wher we purchase 10% of our power from France because we haven;t built proper power stations. By the way, woodpeckers as you may or may not know, require dead trees for both their nesting and their food, not living. I rarely if ever see woodpeckers round my mainly coniferous woods - it is not a strong or argument against timber for biomass.
[quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .[/p][/quote]meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge![/p][/quote]No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done.[/p][/quote]i'm sure your woodland is properly managed the but the plain fact is even if all the woodland in the uk was devoted to making biofuel there is not enough forest for drax let alone others.as the material is sourced from other countries it would appear they are not so fussy about "sustainability". 1 million tons are sourced from the usa source which i quote is "mixed deciduous hardwood" and takes 60-100 years to grow back.moreover the price of electricity from this station is £105 per mw/hour compared to the normal price of £50.i am not against solar or renewables but just don't like distortion of facts (lies) to promote greenness[/p][/quote]There is enough biomass in this country for Drax, but it takes time for markets to develop. THis country produces around 8m tonnes of timber pa which implies a potential of 3m tonnes of brash and waste that is currently burnt or left to rot. When scrap wood and other biomass sources are added to this figure there is potential for a large renewable source of biomass generation feedstock. Regarding electricity wholesale costs I don't know how much you know about the energy market but the whole concept of allowing the market to decide the best and cheapest price has been destroyed by Huhne and others, forcing renewable energy to be purchased whether needed or not. If Drax produces power at 8pm on a cold still January night when no renewables are available then its price reflects the simple fact that it has to be kept online for long hours but earning nothing at all because subsidised solar farms are trickling in unwanted power but taking what profit is available. I don't distort facts but unless you understand the entire industry you may not know what those "facts" actually infer and that applies to both the UK and to EFET (for whom I recently worked). Political interfering in energy has doubled energy bills yet still led us to the kind of defecit wher we purchase 10% of our power from France because we haven;t built proper power stations. By the way, woodpeckers as you may or may not know, require dead trees for both their nesting and their food, not living. I rarely if ever see woodpeckers round my mainly coniferous woods - it is not a strong or argument against timber for biomass. Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: 2

8:01pm Sun 16 Mar 14

gilbertratchet says...

richard57 wrote:
Richard 51 wrote:
One word - nuclear
correct
I agree, although I am not a numbered Richard.
[quote][p][bold]richard57[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richard 51[/bold] wrote: One word - nuclear[/p][/quote]correct[/p][/quote]I agree, although I am not a numbered Richard. gilbertratchet
  • Score: 2

8:11pm Sun 16 Mar 14

derek james says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
derek james wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
derek james wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .
meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge!
No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done.
i'm sure your woodland is properly managed the but the plain fact is even if all the woodland in the uk was devoted to making biofuel there is not enough forest for drax let alone others.as the material is sourced from other countries it would appear they are not so fussy about "sustainability". 1 million tons are sourced from the usa source which i quote is "mixed deciduous hardwood" and takes 60-100 years to grow back.moreover the price of electricity from this station is £105 per mw/hour compared to the normal price of £50.i am not against solar or renewables but just don't like distortion of facts (lies) to promote greenness
There is enough biomass in this country for Drax, but it takes time for markets to develop. THis country produces around 8m tonnes of timber pa which implies a potential of 3m tonnes of brash and waste that is currently burnt or left to rot. When scrap wood and other biomass sources are added to this figure there is potential for a large renewable source of biomass generation feedstock. Regarding electricity wholesale costs I don't know how much you know about the energy market but the whole concept of allowing the market to decide the best and cheapest price has been destroyed by Huhne and others, forcing renewable energy to be purchased whether needed or not. If Drax produces power at 8pm on a cold still January night when no renewables are available then its price reflects the simple fact that it has to be kept online for long hours but earning nothing at all because subsidised solar farms are trickling in unwanted power but taking what profit is available. I don't distort facts but unless you understand the entire industry you may not know what those "facts" actually infer and that applies to both the UK and to EFET (for whom I recently worked). Political interfering in energy has doubled energy bills yet still led us to the kind of defecit wher we purchase 10% of our power from France because we haven;t built proper power stations. By the way, woodpeckers as you may or may not know, require dead trees for both their nesting and their food, not living. I rarely if ever see woodpeckers round my mainly coniferous woods - it is not a strong or argument against timber for biomass.
well you say there is enough biomass for drax but i believe there are another 3 or so generators there waiting to come online , presumably other power stations are thinking of converting to this material, given the small size of the uk i would have doubts whether there would be enough woodland to supply a reasonable percentage of our power needs.anyway the fact remains that sourcing hardwood from the usa (and no doubt other countries) for our power needs is not sustainable.given the vastness of these forests it is not always possible to check what is being cut down .the unfortunate fact remains ecosystems are being destroyed for our power needs.i do know woodpeckers use dead trees but where a clearing is created dead trees are not left standing.
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: The point about electricity generation is that you need to generate electricity when it is required , not at some random time - that is a waste of money. Generating "1MW" (an untrue figure btw) at some unpredictable date and time is pointless because the National Grid has to prepare capacity in advance, so who can say that the sun is going to shine at its maximum intensity at x, y, z time? THey can't. so conventional power stations are constantly on hot standby anyway, but not allowed to sell any power. So no carbon is saved by these pointless politically motivated, subsidised toys and costs rocket upwards, not down because of the redundant capacity. This is what happens when a utility is controlled by politics rather than straight economics. What is so annoying is that those who claim to support these novelties still expect to be able to use their own electricity when they fee like it. If they were told, "you can only cook food at 2pm today", or "you cannot watch tv tomight because there is not enough wind" or "you cannot heat your house above 18c because of the lack of gas" would soon start to realise how far backwards we have gone in the last 20 years when "green" meddling started. There's nothing especially green about living in energy poverty is there, and these subsidised farms make is worse, not better by spending money on unreliable systems. And before anyone mentions batteries, the cost of batteries would quadruple the cost again and require more mined metals than we have actually got. It is not a general solution .[/p][/quote]meanwhile in north carolina they're cutting down great swathes of forests that will take a hundred years to grow back to create fuel pellets for the giant drax recently converted wood fired power station.this is displacing species such as the world's largest woodpecker.the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and the likes of freefinker are in charge![/p][/quote]No Derek you are factually incorrect on several counts, and as I own and manage commerical woodland as a sideline this not simply an opinion. COmmercial forest is thinned every 10 years and conifers reach timber maturity in 40 years. When it is harvested, 40% of the burnable wood is either burnt on site or left to decompose aerobically releasing more CO2 int ithe air than from burning. THis 40% could become biomass and do a useful job producing electricity. Regarding wildlife you make the same false assumptions as everyone else who tries to use it as weapon against whatever it is they don't like. Tha landscape has always changed and wildlife has always adapted or it wouldn't still be here after millions of years. Woodpeckers to use your example have to find new territories as soon as they leave the nest. To try and infer firstly that woodland just manages itself, or that woodland (planted or managed by man) must just be left to its own devices so that woodpeckers don;t have to fly so far is not only foolish, but it is misguided and pointless. If the woodland wasn't there at all because we didn't plant it then where would the woodpeckers go? There will eventually be enough domestically produced biomass in this country to satisfy around 10% of our generating needs, but not when silly innacurate green rhetoric is just picked up without proper scrutiny, as you have done.[/p][/quote]i'm sure your woodland is properly managed the but the plain fact is even if all the woodland in the uk was devoted to making biofuel there is not enough forest for drax let alone others.as the material is sourced from other countries it would appear they are not so fussy about "sustainability". 1 million tons are sourced from the usa source which i quote is "mixed deciduous hardwood" and takes 60-100 years to grow back.moreover the price of electricity from this station is £105 per mw/hour compared to the normal price of £50.i am not against solar or renewables but just don't like distortion of facts (lies) to promote greenness[/p][/quote]There is enough biomass in this country for Drax, but it takes time for markets to develop. THis country produces around 8m tonnes of timber pa which implies a potential of 3m tonnes of brash and waste that is currently burnt or left to rot. When scrap wood and other biomass sources are added to this figure there is potential for a large renewable source of biomass generation feedstock. Regarding electricity wholesale costs I don't know how much you know about the energy market but the whole concept of allowing the market to decide the best and cheapest price has been destroyed by Huhne and others, forcing renewable energy to be purchased whether needed or not. If Drax produces power at 8pm on a cold still January night when no renewables are available then its price reflects the simple fact that it has to be kept online for long hours but earning nothing at all because subsidised solar farms are trickling in unwanted power but taking what profit is available. I don't distort facts but unless you understand the entire industry you may not know what those "facts" actually infer and that applies to both the UK and to EFET (for whom I recently worked). Political interfering in energy has doubled energy bills yet still led us to the kind of defecit wher we purchase 10% of our power from France because we haven;t built proper power stations. By the way, woodpeckers as you may or may not know, require dead trees for both their nesting and their food, not living. I rarely if ever see woodpeckers round my mainly coniferous woods - it is not a strong or argument against timber for biomass.[/p][/quote]well you say there is enough biomass for drax but i believe there are another 3 or so generators there waiting to come online , presumably other power stations are thinking of converting to this material, given the small size of the uk i would have doubts whether there would be enough woodland to supply a reasonable percentage of our power needs.anyway the fact remains that sourcing hardwood from the usa (and no doubt other countries) for our power needs is not sustainable.given the vastness of these forests it is not always possible to check what is being cut down .the unfortunate fact remains ecosystems are being destroyed for our power needs.i do know woodpeckers use dead trees but where a clearing is created dead trees are not left standing. derek james
  • Score: 0

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