Schools could close due to strike action

Daily Echo: Teachers on a protest march in Southampton during strike action Teachers on a protest march in Southampton during strike action

MORE than a dozen schools in Hampshire will be severely disrupted if a planned strike by teachers goes ahead next week.

Six head teachers have notified local education authorities that should the industrial action happen next Wednesday their schools will shut.

A further eight schools have announced that they intend to remain open, though some classes will be affected.

Seven head teachers in Southampton have said that their schools will remain fully open. What will happen with the remainder is unknown.

Unlike last October, when members of both main teaching unions staged a joint day of action, next week will see just NUT members walk out after members of the NASUWT decided against the action.

As a result the impact is not expected to be as severe as last year when more than 100 schools in Hampshire and Southampton were closed.

The dispute is in response to what the NUT says is the refusal by education secretary Michael Gove to discuss concerns over workload, pensions and pay.

Southampton NUT secretary Pete Sopowski said he was not hopeful that the strike would be called off.

He told the Daily Echo: “If teachers don’t stand up for themselves then no one else will.”

Councillor Peter Edgar, Hampshire’s education boss, said: “As always, the County Council’s primary concern is for the education and welfare of children, and head teachers have been asked to seek to ascertain ahead of the day of action, whether any staff will be striking and the likely impact on the school – including whether this means that they will need to close or partially close their schools.

“This is to enable parents and carers to be advised, if possible, so that they can make alternative arrangements if necessary.”

Councillor Dan Jeffery, Southampton’s education chief, said: “We are advising headteachers and governors on how to manage any issues that may arise from this action but schools will have to make the final call on whether they have enough staff to enable them to safely open on the day.”

A DfE spokesperson said: “Parents will struggle to understand why the NUT is pressing ahead with strikes over the Government's measures to let heads pay good teachers more.

“They called for talks to avoid industrial action, we agreed to their request, and talks have been taking place weekly.”

Schools that have announced closures in Southampton:

  • Bassett Green Primary
  • Bevois Town Primary
  • Bitterne Park Primary - may close
  • Fairisle Infant and Nursery - Three Year R classes closed
  • Freemantle Primary
  • Mansel Park Primary - Closed to all bar Year 6
  • Mason Moor - Closed apart from Willow and Birch, Beech and Holly
  • Moorlands Primary
  • Newlands Primary - Butterflies (YR) and Pandas (Y3) closed.
  • Ludlow Junior
  • Redbridge Primary -  4 classes affected
  • Shirley Warren Learning Campus Primary and Nursery - 4 classes closed
  • St Monica Junior
  • Regents Park - closed to all bar Year 11
  • Woodlands - closed to all bar year 11
  • Great Oaks
  • Vermont

Schools that have announced closures in Hampshire

  • Brockhurst Infant School, Gosport - School closed for Year R children only.
  • Buriton Primary School
  • Clanfield Junior School - Closed apart from classes 3CH 4KB 5RB 5SA
  • Fareham Academy - Closed to all pupils bar Year 11
  • Henry Tyndale School, Farnborough - Class 4, 8, 10, 6th Form closed.
  • Herne Junior School, Petersfield
  • Netley Marsh Church Of England Infant School - Year R and Year 2 closed.
  • Red Barn Community Primary School, Fareham - Closed apart from pre-school
  • St Faith's C E Primary School -  Closed for children in Year R, Year 1 and Year 3.
  • St Peter's Catholic Voluntary Aided Primary School, Winchester - Classes DF,GK,MOC,MW closed

Comments (69)

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10:47am Fri 21 Mar 14

voiceof thepeople says...

Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....??????
Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....?????? voiceof thepeople
  • Score: 11

10:53am Fri 21 Mar 14

From the sidelines says...

So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking. From the sidelines
  • Score: 4

10:55am Fri 21 Mar 14

From the sidelines says...

voiceof thepeople wrote:
Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....??????
1. Irrelevant. It's not the unions backing the fines.

2. Why worry, as long as the saving outweighs the fine?
[quote][p][bold]voiceof thepeople[/bold] wrote: Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....??????[/p][/quote]1. Irrelevant. It's not the unions backing the fines. 2. Why worry, as long as the saving outweighs the fine? From the sidelines
  • Score: -6

10:59am Fri 21 Mar 14

southy says...

voiceof thepeople wrote:
Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....??????
That is a Tory government policy bought in to control schools and parents. The school don't want to do it they are ordered to do it
[quote][p][bold]voiceof thepeople[/bold] wrote: Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....??????[/p][/quote]That is a Tory government policy bought in to control schools and parents. The school don't want to do it they are ordered to do it southy
  • Score: -3

11:23am Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

voiceof thepeople wrote:
Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....??????
Ha ha ! Yeh ! Very funny.
[quote][p][bold]voiceof thepeople[/bold] wrote: Teachers an go on strike whenever they want, but take your child on holiday to save a bit of cash and the school will fine you ....??????[/p][/quote]Ha ha ! Yeh ! Very funny. charrlee
  • Score: -4

11:25am Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness. charrlee
  • Score: -4

11:40am Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

The insistence of political parties, and of each successive government to use education as a political pawn and "vote getter" has all but destroyed the integrity and stability of the entire system.

Before comprehensive education we were the best in the world, but now we are 34th in Europe.

Teachers would like Gove to accept responsibility for the continued decline of the service, and resign.
The insistence of political parties, and of each successive government to use education as a political pawn and "vote getter" has all but destroyed the integrity and stability of the entire system. Before comprehensive education we were the best in the world, but now we are 34th in Europe. Teachers would like Gove to accept responsibility for the continued decline of the service, and resign. charrlee
  • Score: 3

12:23pm Fri 21 Mar 14

From the sidelines says...

charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities? From the sidelines
  • Score: -3

12:51pm Fri 21 Mar 14

Torchie1 says...

charrlee wrote:
The insistence of political parties, and of each successive government to use education as a political pawn and "vote getter" has all but destroyed the integrity and stability of the entire system.

Before comprehensive education we were the best in the world, but now we are 34th in Europe.

Teachers would like Gove to accept responsibility for the continued decline of the service, and resign.
As long as the elements of competition and discipline are absent from the education system the UK will languish well below it's capability. It's a myth to think that all children are equal and capable of achieving the same high standards and instead of concentrating on giving an increasingly worthless qualification to everyone it should be accepted that some are brighter than others. The teachers should step back from trying to be the pupil best friend and try to behave as though they are there to impart knowledge on their charges and be given the authority to instill a level of control. The PISA results can't be ignored and there are much poorer countries comfortably above the UK and their students know they can walk straight in to UK University places and UK jobs. Try to face reality and accept in this case it might be good to return to methods of old.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: The insistence of political parties, and of each successive government to use education as a political pawn and "vote getter" has all but destroyed the integrity and stability of the entire system. Before comprehensive education we were the best in the world, but now we are 34th in Europe. Teachers would like Gove to accept responsibility for the continued decline of the service, and resign.[/p][/quote]As long as the elements of competition and discipline are absent from the education system the UK will languish well below it's capability. It's a myth to think that all children are equal and capable of achieving the same high standards and instead of concentrating on giving an increasingly worthless qualification to everyone it should be accepted that some are brighter than others. The teachers should step back from trying to be the pupil best friend and try to behave as though they are there to impart knowledge on their charges and be given the authority to instill a level of control. The PISA results can't be ignored and there are much poorer countries comfortably above the UK and their students know they can walk straight in to UK University places and UK jobs. Try to face reality and accept in this case it might be good to return to methods of old. Torchie1
  • Score: 8

1:40pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

charrlee wrote:
The insistence of political parties, and of each successive government to use education as a political pawn and "vote getter" has all but destroyed the integrity and stability of the entire system.

Before comprehensive education we were the best in the world, but now we are 34th in Europe.

Teachers would like Gove to accept responsibility for the continued decline of the service, and resign.
The Education of our children has been in decline for many years and has seen us slide right down the Global Education leagues. What more proof do you want? What were the 400,000 plus teachers doing? What were the Unions doing?! Oh, it's easy, we'll blame it all on the government!!
To my way of thinking it is the fault of those in Education, the mostly Left Wing people who recommend teaching policy (Especially under the last Labour government). Those same people were, or have been, in Education!
Plus we have the absurd situation where it is almost impossible to sack an incompetent teacher!
Only 17 teachers sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because schools are scared stiff of the Teacher Unions!

Importing 60 Chinese Mathematics Teachers to show us how to teach Mathematics is a BIG clue to the state our Education system finds itself in.

Note: I am perfectly happy with the Education my children ultimately received. Fortunately, it was before the last Labour government! (We only had to change schools for one child because of poor teaching)
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: The insistence of political parties, and of each successive government to use education as a political pawn and "vote getter" has all but destroyed the integrity and stability of the entire system. Before comprehensive education we were the best in the world, but now we are 34th in Europe. Teachers would like Gove to accept responsibility for the continued decline of the service, and resign.[/p][/quote]The Education of our children has been in decline for many years and has seen us slide right down the Global Education leagues. What more proof do you want? What were the 400,000 plus teachers doing? What were the Unions doing?! Oh, it's easy, we'll blame it all on the government!! To my way of thinking it is the fault of those in Education, the mostly Left Wing people who recommend teaching policy (Especially under the last Labour government). Those same people were, or have been, in Education! Plus we have the absurd situation where it is almost impossible to sack an incompetent teacher! Only 17 teachers sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because schools are scared stiff of the Teacher Unions! Importing 60 Chinese Mathematics Teachers to show us how to teach Mathematics is a BIG clue to the state our Education system finds itself in. Note: I am perfectly happy with the Education my children ultimately received. Fortunately, it was before the last Labour government! (We only had to change schools for one child because of poor teaching) George4th
  • Score: 4

2:01pm Fri 21 Mar 14

eurogordi says...

To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector. eurogordi
  • Score: 5

2:08pm Fri 21 Mar 14

cantthinkofone says...

Before NASUWT members consider working while their colleagues are striking, they may want to google the word 'scab'...
Before NASUWT members consider working while their colleagues are striking, they may want to google the word 'scab'... cantthinkofone
  • Score: -4

3:06pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject.

Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here.

I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?[/p][/quote]Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject. Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here. I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother. charrlee
  • Score: 6

3:06pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them. George4th
  • Score: -1

3:13pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
Eurogordi's comment is absolutely spot on - I have written much the same myself in defence of teachers in the past. Read it :

"eurogordi says...

To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector."
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?[/p][/quote]Eurogordi's comment is absolutely spot on - I have written much the same myself in defence of teachers in the past. Read it : "eurogordi says... To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector." charrlee
  • Score: 3

3:29pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling. charrlee
  • Score: 5

3:46pm Fri 21 Mar 14

Lone Ranger. says...

George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
You are so out of touch its unreal ......
.
As regards the support of getting the Chinese teachers in and teaching about about maths !! - .................... Perhaps they can teach them about the human rights in China, ..... Or how about the hundreds of forced labour camps ....... or how about China being one of the least environmentally friendly places in the world, devastated by pollution. ..... or how about it being the worlds capital of forgery ........ But they do good fireworks
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]You are so out of touch its unreal ...... . As regards the support of getting the Chinese teachers in and teaching about about maths !! - .................... Perhaps they can teach them about the human rights in China, ..... Or how about the hundreds of forced labour camps ....... or how about China being one of the least environmentally friendly places in the world, devastated by pollution. ..... or how about it being the worlds capital of forgery ........ But they do good fireworks Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -1

4:00pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future. George4th
  • Score: -1

4:17pm Fri 21 Mar 14

eurogordi says...

To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification.

Teacher
£21800 rising to £32000

Industrial Chemist
£29000 rising to £53000

Accountant
£18000 rising to £40000

Engineer
£25000 rising to £50000

Veterinary Surgeon
£30000 rising to £70000

Doctor
£22500 rising to £70000

Graphic Designer
£15000 rising to £40000

The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues.

So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall.

And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain.

I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action.

I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.
To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification. Teacher £21800 rising to £32000 Industrial Chemist £29000 rising to £53000 Accountant £18000 rising to £40000 Engineer £25000 rising to £50000 Veterinary Surgeon £30000 rising to £70000 Doctor £22500 rising to £70000 Graphic Designer £15000 rising to £40000 The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues. So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall. And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain. I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action. I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days. eurogordi
  • Score: 9

4:26pm Fri 21 Mar 14

eurogordi says...

George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
Yes, there was a time when Teachers could enter Teacher Training college with O-Levels, but if you are old enough to remember O-Levels you will also know that the majority of Teachers who entered by that route would now be enjoying their retirement!

For almost 30 years, if not more, Teachers have been required to have at least a two year Higher Education diploma taken after A-levels and, for much of that 30 year period, they have been required to take the full four year degree.

Incidentally, while you are bashing the Teachers, would you like to bash the Nurses and Midwives as well? I thought not, even though the changes in Nursing and Midwifery training requirements have followed an almost identical pattern to those within Teaching.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]Yes, there was a time when Teachers could enter Teacher Training college with O-Levels, but if you are old enough to remember O-Levels you will also know that the majority of Teachers who entered by that route would now be enjoying their retirement! For almost 30 years, if not more, Teachers have been required to have at least a two year Higher Education diploma taken after A-levels and, for much of that 30 year period, they have been required to take the full four year degree. Incidentally, while you are bashing the Teachers, would you like to bash the Nurses and Midwives as well? I thought not, even though the changes in Nursing and Midwifery training requirements have followed an almost identical pattern to those within Teaching. eurogordi
  • Score: 4

4:33pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

eurogordi wrote:
To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification.

Teacher
£21800 rising to £32000

Industrial Chemist
£29000 rising to £53000

Accountant
£18000 rising to £40000

Engineer
£25000 rising to £50000

Veterinary Surgeon
£30000 rising to £70000

Doctor
£22500 rising to £70000

Graphic Designer
£15000 rising to £40000

The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues.

So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall.

And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain.

I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action.

I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.
Teachers can progress up to £60,000! PLUS the amazing benefits package!

Ask any retired teacher you like what their pension is!
They will be reluctant to tell you because they will be embarrassed by how much they get!

Working teachers are bomb proof! That's why only 17 sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years.

I repeat:
I respect good teachers.

I do not respect poor teachers, or the Unions who protect them.
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification. Teacher £21800 rising to £32000 Industrial Chemist £29000 rising to £53000 Accountant £18000 rising to £40000 Engineer £25000 rising to £50000 Veterinary Surgeon £30000 rising to £70000 Doctor £22500 rising to £70000 Graphic Designer £15000 rising to £40000 The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues. So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall. And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain. I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action. I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.[/p][/quote]Teachers can progress up to £60,000! PLUS the amazing benefits package! Ask any retired teacher you like what their pension is! They will be reluctant to tell you because they will be embarrassed by how much they get! Working teachers are bomb proof! That's why only 17 sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years. I repeat: I respect good teachers. I do not respect poor teachers, or the Unions who protect them. George4th
  • Score: -1

4:58pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

eurogordi wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
Yes, there was a time when Teachers could enter Teacher Training college with O-Levels, but if you are old enough to remember O-Levels you will also know that the majority of Teachers who entered by that route would now be enjoying their retirement!

For almost 30 years, if not more, Teachers have been required to have at least a two year Higher Education diploma taken after A-levels and, for much of that 30 year period, they have been required to take the full four year degree.

Incidentally, while you are bashing the Teachers, would you like to bash the Nurses and Midwives as well? I thought not, even though the changes in Nursing and Midwifery training requirements have followed an almost identical pattern to those within Teaching.
The NHS requires a radical change in the same way Education did/does.
We have seen that the UK Education system is/was unfit to meet modern needs in a global world.
Equally, the NHS is/was unsustainable in its current form to meet the future needs of the people in this country if you want any form of free treatment at point of entry.
Nurses basic is more than adequate because in a very short space of time their earnings increase with in house training and responsibility. Nurses can earn the top end of teachers, £60,000 and over PLUS the excellent benefits package!
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]Yes, there was a time when Teachers could enter Teacher Training college with O-Levels, but if you are old enough to remember O-Levels you will also know that the majority of Teachers who entered by that route would now be enjoying their retirement! For almost 30 years, if not more, Teachers have been required to have at least a two year Higher Education diploma taken after A-levels and, for much of that 30 year period, they have been required to take the full four year degree. Incidentally, while you are bashing the Teachers, would you like to bash the Nurses and Midwives as well? I thought not, even though the changes in Nursing and Midwifery training requirements have followed an almost identical pattern to those within Teaching.[/p][/quote]The NHS requires a radical change in the same way Education did/does. We have seen that the UK Education system is/was unfit to meet modern needs in a global world. Equally, the NHS is/was unsustainable in its current form to meet the future needs of the people in this country if you want any form of free treatment at point of entry. Nurses basic is more than adequate because in a very short space of time their earnings increase with in house training and responsibility. Nurses can earn the top end of teachers, £60,000 and over PLUS the excellent benefits package! George4th
  • Score: -1

5:05pm Fri 21 Mar 14

mickey01 says...

i would not like a job where when the day work is done then the evening work starts be it after school clubs marking work or parent evenings i live near a chool and see cars arriving at 7.am and some are still there at 6pm so its not a 9 to 3.45 job and the salaries should reflect that . but i think the teachers today(and this will upset a few people) do seem very chummy to the kids and dress down to what they used to . the males always wore suits and the females dress smartly that if anything taught the students a bit of discipline that would be expected from their elders once they left school but now it seems anything goes and to be honest some of the teachers today have the same interests , listen to the same music etc etc it seems more like a club than a place of education
i would not like a job where when the day work is done then the evening work starts be it after school clubs marking work or parent evenings i live near a chool and see cars arriving at 7.am and some are still there at 6pm so its not a 9 to 3.45 job and the salaries should reflect that . but i think the teachers today(and this will upset a few people) do seem very chummy to the kids and dress down to what they used to . the males always wore suits and the females dress smartly that if anything taught the students a bit of discipline that would be expected from their elders once they left school but now it seems anything goes and to be honest some of the teachers today have the same interests , listen to the same music etc etc it seems more like a club than a place of education mickey01
  • Score: 2

5:29pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today. charrlee
  • Score: 3

5:38pm Fri 21 Mar 14

From the sidelines says...

eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
The hours are not vastly different for a professional in the private sector, except, of course, for the 13 weeks holidays.

Pensions in the private sector are now, mostly, defined contribution. Teachers' pensions are defined benefit, and therefore vastly more secure.

Private sector jobs come and go at the whim of the market and depending on the success of the employer. Teachers' jobs are secure.

It's a cushy life.
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]The hours are not vastly different for a professional in the private sector, except, of course, for the 13 weeks holidays. Pensions in the private sector are now, mostly, defined contribution. Teachers' pensions are defined benefit, and therefore vastly more secure. Private sector jobs come and go at the whim of the market and depending on the success of the employer. Teachers' jobs are secure. It's a cushy life. From the sidelines
  • Score: 0

5:40pm Fri 21 Mar 14

Lone Ranger. says...

charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

5:42pm Fri 21 Mar 14

From the sidelines says...

charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject.

Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here.

I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.
So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further.

I'll bet you were a great teacher.

How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?[/p][/quote]Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject. Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here. I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.[/p][/quote]So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further. I'll bet you were a great teacher. How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"? From the sidelines
  • Score: -2

5:46pm Fri 21 Mar 14

From the sidelines says...

eurogordi wrote:
To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification.

Teacher
£21800 rising to £32000

Industrial Chemist
£29000 rising to £53000

Accountant
£18000 rising to £40000

Engineer
£25000 rising to £50000

Veterinary Surgeon
£30000 rising to £70000

Doctor
£22500 rising to £70000

Graphic Designer
£15000 rising to £40000

The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues.

So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall.

And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain.

I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action.

I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.
Your teacher salaries are available at http://www.naht.org.
uk/EasysiteWeb/getre
source.axd?AssetID=3
6206&type=full&servi
cetype=Attachment

Your statement of the upper limit is disingenuous, and my link proves.
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification. Teacher £21800 rising to £32000 Industrial Chemist £29000 rising to £53000 Accountant £18000 rising to £40000 Engineer £25000 rising to £50000 Veterinary Surgeon £30000 rising to £70000 Doctor £22500 rising to £70000 Graphic Designer £15000 rising to £40000 The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues. So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall. And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain. I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action. I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.[/p][/quote]Your teacher salaries are available at http://www.naht.org. uk/EasysiteWeb/getre source.axd?AssetID=3 6206&type=full&servi cetype=Attachment Your statement of the upper limit is disingenuous, and my link proves. From the sidelines
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

From the sidelines wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
The hours are not vastly different for a professional in the private sector, except, of course, for the 13 weeks holidays.

Pensions in the private sector are now, mostly, defined contribution. Teachers' pensions are defined benefit, and therefore vastly more secure.

Private sector jobs come and go at the whim of the market and depending on the success of the employer. Teachers' jobs are secure.

It's a cushy life.
Although I disagree in principle with everything you have said, now you have said a lot more and I can see clearly where you are coming from, I now feel your thoughts are very compelling indeed.

But please go into a school and teach a challenged ability year 10. Please find out what it is like to be called a " f*****g c**t " for attempting to confiscate a mobile in the middle of a lesson. And so on.

Maybe this is all about "the grass is greener"- I dunno. But thank you for persisting with your comments, sidelines, as they are definitely giving me food for thought.

I guess there'll be a lot of "teacher" topics in future weeks with the union conferences coming up at Easter.
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]The hours are not vastly different for a professional in the private sector, except, of course, for the 13 weeks holidays. Pensions in the private sector are now, mostly, defined contribution. Teachers' pensions are defined benefit, and therefore vastly more secure. Private sector jobs come and go at the whim of the market and depending on the success of the employer. Teachers' jobs are secure. It's a cushy life.[/p][/quote]Although I disagree in principle with everything you have said, now you have said a lot more and I can see clearly where you are coming from, I now feel your thoughts are very compelling indeed. But please go into a school and teach a challenged ability year 10. Please find out what it is like to be called a " f*****g c**t " for attempting to confiscate a mobile in the middle of a lesson. And so on. Maybe this is all about "the grass is greener"- I dunno. But thank you for persisting with your comments, sidelines, as they are definitely giving me food for thought. I guess there'll be a lot of "teacher" topics in future weeks with the union conferences coming up at Easter. charrlee
  • Score: 1

6:05pm Fri 21 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

Where on earth are you getting the idea that only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last ten years??? I promise you it is simply not true.
Where on earth are you getting the idea that only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last ten years??? I promise you it is simply not true. VOR666
  • Score: 0

6:10pm Fri 21 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

It is also totally irrelevant to bring in the fining of parents who take their children on holiday in term time into this discussion. The school does not decide to do this. It is the local authority's decision. What's more the school does not get the money - the council does. Please stop bringing this up every time a discussion about education arises - it really is irrelevant to this discussion.
It is also totally irrelevant to bring in the fining of parents who take their children on holiday in term time into this discussion. The school does not decide to do this. It is the local authority's decision. What's more the school does not get the money - the council does. Please stop bringing this up every time a discussion about education arises - it really is irrelevant to this discussion. VOR666
  • Score: 1

6:17pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

VOR666 wrote:
Where on earth are you getting the idea that only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last ten years??? I promise you it is simply not true.
Now I read that somewhere recently.

Most incompetent teachers are advised to move on in the first instance after a support procedure - you know, fresh start in a new school. Many are encouraged to look for employment outside of teaching. Many simply resign. It would be only a tiny few that would be foolish enough to wait until the headteacher had no alternatives left but to boot them out the door - ie sack them for incompetence !
[quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: Where on earth are you getting the idea that only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last ten years??? I promise you it is simply not true.[/p][/quote]Now I read that somewhere recently. Most incompetent teachers are advised to move on in the first instance after a support procedure - you know, fresh start in a new school. Many are encouraged to look for employment outside of teaching. Many simply resign. It would be only a tiny few that would be foolish enough to wait until the headteacher had no alternatives left but to boot them out the door - ie sack them for incompetence ! charrlee
  • Score: 1

6:18pm Fri 21 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.
I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues. VOR666
  • Score: 0

6:22pm Fri 21 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

Fair enough - I take your point but nonetheless, when incompetent teachers are 'moved on' rather than waiting to be sacked, the reference they receive leaves future employers in no doubt as to why they left their previous school.
Fair enough - I take your point but nonetheless, when incompetent teachers are 'moved on' rather than waiting to be sacked, the reference they receive leaves future employers in no doubt as to why they left their previous school. VOR666
  • Score: 0

6:34pm Fri 21 Mar 14

Nattajack says...

charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Perhaps you could send some of these 'highly educated, experienced and talented' teachers to my sons school, goodness knows they certainly seem to be lacking. Teachers are not what they used to be that's for sure!! Explain how they can teach our children when a good percentage do not even seem to be able to get the basics right?
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Perhaps you could send some of these 'highly educated, experienced and talented' teachers to my sons school, goodness knows they certainly seem to be lacking. Teachers are not what they used to be that's for sure!! Explain how they can teach our children when a good percentage do not even seem to be able to get the basics right? Nattajack
  • Score: 1

6:35pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

From the sidelines wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification.

Teacher
£21800 rising to £32000

Industrial Chemist
£29000 rising to £53000

Accountant
£18000 rising to £40000

Engineer
£25000 rising to £50000

Veterinary Surgeon
£30000 rising to £70000

Doctor
£22500 rising to £70000

Graphic Designer
£15000 rising to £40000

The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues.

So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall.

And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain.

I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action.

I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.
Your teacher salaries are available at http://www.naht.org.

uk/EasysiteWeb/getre

source.axd?AssetID=3

6206&type=full&a
mp;servi
cetype=Attachment

Your statement of the upper limit is disingenuous, and my link proves.
Oh dear Euro ! You were doing so well, but sidelines has caught you out here.

£32,000 is the maximum a "bog standard" classroom teacher can earn. But after that (the numbers in brackets are a close approximate estimate for a secondary school with say 1200 pupils, no 6th form) you have a second in each department (10), department heads (10), heads of faculty (6-8), heads of house (4), heads of year (5), examinations officer (1), the SENCO (1), and then of course a couple of deputies and the head. Their maximums are above £32,000.
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification. Teacher £21800 rising to £32000 Industrial Chemist £29000 rising to £53000 Accountant £18000 rising to £40000 Engineer £25000 rising to £50000 Veterinary Surgeon £30000 rising to £70000 Doctor £22500 rising to £70000 Graphic Designer £15000 rising to £40000 The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues. So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall. And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain. I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action. I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.[/p][/quote]Your teacher salaries are available at http://www.naht.org. uk/EasysiteWeb/getre source.axd?AssetID=3 6206&type=full&a mp;servi cetype=Attachment Your statement of the upper limit is disingenuous, and my link proves.[/p][/quote]Oh dear Euro ! You were doing so well, but sidelines has caught you out here. £32,000 is the maximum a "bog standard" classroom teacher can earn. But after that (the numbers in brackets are a close approximate estimate for a secondary school with say 1200 pupils, no 6th form) you have a second in each department (10), department heads (10), heads of faculty (6-8), heads of house (4), heads of year (5), examinations officer (1), the SENCO (1), and then of course a couple of deputies and the head. Their maximums are above £32,000. charrlee
  • Score: 2

6:58pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject.

Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here.

I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.
So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further.

I'll bet you were a great teacher.

How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?
I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread.

Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit.

I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching.
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?[/p][/quote]Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject. Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here. I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.[/p][/quote]So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further. I'll bet you were a great teacher. How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?[/p][/quote]I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread. Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit. I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching. charrlee
  • Score: 0

7:07pm Fri 21 Mar 14

From the sidelines says...

charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
I call BS.

I've been involved in teacher recruitment, and amongst the professional classes, their qualifications are very modest. I doubt that many would have passed the initial screening at any of the companies that have employed me.

A B.Ed. degree is not an academic qualification.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]I call BS. I've been involved in teacher recruitment, and amongst the professional classes, their qualifications are very modest. I doubt that many would have passed the initial screening at any of the companies that have employed me. A B.Ed. degree is not an academic qualification. From the sidelines
  • Score: 1

7:14pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

VOR666 wrote:
Fair enough - I take your point but nonetheless, when incompetent teachers are 'moved on' rather than waiting to be sacked, the reference they receive leaves future employers in no doubt as to why they left their previous school.
Teachers can be deemed incompetent for all sorts of reasons, often through no fault of their own. They might have a longterm illness which has kept them off work for months at a time - kids and colleagues quickly turn against someone like that. The head of department might hate them, or they might have problems with the HOD. A weak head of department might give all the difficult classes to their assistant teacher to avoid being caught out at some future OFSTED inspection. That assistant might not cope with constant stress of challenging behaviour of pupils.

Not everyone can be excellent ! If you scrap everyone in the world who is not excellent, you ain't half going to have a monumental scrap heap ! !
[quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: Fair enough - I take your point but nonetheless, when incompetent teachers are 'moved on' rather than waiting to be sacked, the reference they receive leaves future employers in no doubt as to why they left their previous school.[/p][/quote]Teachers can be deemed incompetent for all sorts of reasons, often through no fault of their own. They might have a longterm illness which has kept them off work for months at a time - kids and colleagues quickly turn against someone like that. The head of department might hate them, or they might have problems with the HOD. A weak head of department might give all the difficult classes to their assistant teacher to avoid being caught out at some future OFSTED inspection. That assistant might not cope with constant stress of challenging behaviour of pupils. Not everyone can be excellent ! If you scrap everyone in the world who is not excellent, you ain't half going to have a monumental scrap heap ! ! charrlee
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
I call BS.

I've been involved in teacher recruitment, and amongst the professional classes, their qualifications are very modest. I doubt that many would have passed the initial screening at any of the companies that have employed me.

A B.Ed. degree is not an academic qualification.
I know I've jumbled things up a bit here, sidelines, but I am seeing your point of view despite your arrogance.

Would you mind expanding on the "A B.Ed. degree is not an academic qualification" comment ?

Before we go any further, I am wondering if you might be associated with some of the more outspoken cyclists who post here. Your light antagonism smells strongly of "set-up", and your direct, unqualified, condemnatory approach says "Downfader/Simmons alert" to me.

You may be totally innocent, but we are both just names on a screen, and I don't want to risk wasting my time on a subtle troll attack. So forget it.
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]I call BS. I've been involved in teacher recruitment, and amongst the professional classes, their qualifications are very modest. I doubt that many would have passed the initial screening at any of the companies that have employed me. A B.Ed. degree is not an academic qualification.[/p][/quote]I know I've jumbled things up a bit here, sidelines, but I am seeing your point of view despite your arrogance. Would you mind expanding on the "A B.Ed. degree is not an academic qualification" comment ? Before we go any further, I am wondering if you might be associated with some of the more outspoken cyclists who post here. Your light antagonism smells strongly of "set-up", and your direct, unqualified, condemnatory approach says "Downfader/Simmons alert" to me. You may be totally innocent, but we are both just names on a screen, and I don't want to risk wasting my time on a subtle troll attack. So forget it. charrlee
  • Score: 0

8:28pm Fri 21 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

From the sidelines wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
The hours are not vastly different for a professional in the private sector, except, of course, for the 13 weeks holidays.

Pensions in the private sector are now, mostly, defined contribution. Teachers' pensions are defined benefit, and therefore vastly more secure.

Private sector jobs come and go at the whim of the market and depending on the success of the employer. Teachers' jobs are secure.

It's a cushy life.
.. and what do you do?
[quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]The hours are not vastly different for a professional in the private sector, except, of course, for the 13 weeks holidays. Pensions in the private sector are now, mostly, defined contribution. Teachers' pensions are defined benefit, and therefore vastly more secure. Private sector jobs come and go at the whim of the market and depending on the success of the employer. Teachers' jobs are secure. It's a cushy life.[/p][/quote].. and what do you do? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

8:46pm Fri 21 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning[/p][/quote]Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed.. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 1

9:10pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..
In nomine Patris
Et Filii
Et Spiritus Sancti
Amen
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning[/p][/quote]Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..[/p][/quote]In nomine Patris Et Filii Et Spiritus Sancti Amen charrlee
  • Score: 0

9:48pm Fri 21 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..
In nomine Patris
Et Filii
Et Spiritus Sancti
Amen
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin!
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning[/p][/quote]Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..[/p][/quote]In nomine Patris Et Filii Et Spiritus Sancti Amen[/p][/quote]Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin! OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 1

10:19pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..
In nomine Patris
Et Filii
Et Spiritus Sancti
Amen
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin!
I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked :

"I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !"

Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning[/p][/quote]Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..[/p][/quote]In nomine Patris Et Filii Et Spiritus Sancti Amen[/p][/quote]Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin![/p][/quote]I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked : "I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !" Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum. charrlee
  • Score: 0

10:44pm Fri 21 Mar 14

eurogordi says...

charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification.

Teacher
£21800 rising to £32000

Industrial Chemist
£29000 rising to £53000

Accountant
£18000 rising to £40000

Engineer
£25000 rising to £50000

Veterinary Surgeon
£30000 rising to £70000

Doctor
£22500 rising to £70000

Graphic Designer
£15000 rising to £40000

The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues.

So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall.

And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain.

I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action.

I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.
Your teacher salaries are available at http://www.naht.org.


uk/EasysiteWeb/getre


source.axd?AssetID=3


6206&type=full&a
mp;a
mp;servi
cetype=Attachment

Your statement of the upper limit is disingenuous, and my link proves.
Oh dear Euro ! You were doing so well, but sidelines has caught you out here.

£32,000 is the maximum a "bog standard" classroom teacher can earn. But after that (the numbers in brackets are a close approximate estimate for a secondary school with say 1200 pupils, no 6th form) you have a second in each department (10), department heads (10), heads of faculty (6-8), heads of house (4), heads of year (5), examinations officer (1), the SENCO (1), and then of course a couple of deputies and the head. Their maximums are above £32,000.
I still stand by what I said, because the figures I quoted do not allow for additional responsibilities such as Head, SENCo etc. To qualify what I was trying to say, a Senior Consultant or GP can earn £150K or more, as can a number of the other careers quoted when additional responsibilities added. So the "bog standard" Teacher is still on a lower salary than the "bog standard" person in an alternative career.

And as far as someone saying a B.Ed. is not a professional qualification simply shows how little some commentators know about qualifications within the UK. Due to the high levels of knowledge that the government now require Teachers to have, many would have a first degree in their main subject with a PGCE for their teaching practice.

This has almost always been the case in secondary education since a degree became necessary to teach, and it is only primary education sector that continued to accept the B.Ed. (and that too has started to change in recent years). While I'm talking about primary education, where challenging behaviour from students is seen at a young and younger age, how many people criticising Teachers would be prepared to teach English, Maths, Science, MFL, History, Geography, PE, Music, RE and all the other curriculum subjects that one person is supposed to deliver until the pupil reaches 11 and starts to have more specialist Teachers?

I thought not, so please do not belittle the B.Ed. which, for many years, was the only way that Teachers could work in primary education. As I've already mentioned, secondary education was always seen to promote greater specialism, but either route does not make Teachers "unprofessional" as some would claim here.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To those who think that Teachers are paid more than the private sector, I have just done some quick research into salaries based on the requirement to have a similar level of qualification. Teacher £21800 rising to £32000 Industrial Chemist £29000 rising to £53000 Accountant £18000 rising to £40000 Engineer £25000 rising to £50000 Veterinary Surgeon £30000 rising to £70000 Doctor £22500 rising to £70000 Graphic Designer £15000 rising to £40000 The first figure is the average starting salary after graduation while the second is after several years experience. Although I do not doubt that there are definitely lower starting salaries than Teachers, it cannot be argued that those working in the private or other public sectors have far more earning potential than their teaching colleagues. So please do not claim that Teachers are well paid for what is expected of them. And, once again, the long holidays compensate for the even longer hours that Teachers are now expected to work. You would therefore find that the actual hours put in by Teachers are very similar to any other professional career overall. And to put things into even greater perspective, a Freelance Trainer/Consultant can charge up to £1000 per day and does not usually have to put up with unruly pupils, parents evening, marking or visits from Ofsted that can even put the most competent Teacher under immense and unnecessary strain. I am NOT a Teacher, but I have a keen interest in education as both a parent and a professional. I therefore support the cause of all Teachers and get help but wondered if some of the anti-teacher comments are coming from those parents in highly paid jobs who are inconvenienced by school closures as a result of industrial action. I have little sympathy for such people who should remember that they are the ones who chose to have children AND continue in their often lucrative careers which help to fund lifestyles that many Teachers can only dream of. You should remember that schools ARE NOT a free babysitting service, but too many parents seem to think that way these days.[/p][/quote]Your teacher salaries are available at http://www.naht.org. uk/EasysiteWeb/getre source.axd?AssetID=3 6206&type=full&a mp;a mp;servi cetype=Attachment Your statement of the upper limit is disingenuous, and my link proves.[/p][/quote]Oh dear Euro ! You were doing so well, but sidelines has caught you out here. £32,000 is the maximum a "bog standard" classroom teacher can earn. But after that (the numbers in brackets are a close approximate estimate for a secondary school with say 1200 pupils, no 6th form) you have a second in each department (10), department heads (10), heads of faculty (6-8), heads of house (4), heads of year (5), examinations officer (1), the SENCO (1), and then of course a couple of deputies and the head. Their maximums are above £32,000.[/p][/quote]I still stand by what I said, because the figures I quoted do not allow for additional responsibilities such as Head, SENCo etc. To qualify what I was trying to say, a Senior Consultant or GP can earn £150K or more, as can a number of the other careers quoted when additional responsibilities added. So the "bog standard" Teacher is still on a lower salary than the "bog standard" person in an alternative career. And as far as someone saying a B.Ed. is not a professional qualification simply shows how little some commentators know about qualifications within the UK. Due to the high levels of knowledge that the government now require Teachers to have, many would have a first degree in their main subject with a PGCE for their teaching practice. This has almost always been the case in secondary education since a degree became necessary to teach, and it is only primary education sector that continued to accept the B.Ed. (and that too has started to change in recent years). While I'm talking about primary education, where challenging behaviour from students is seen at a young and younger age, how many people criticising Teachers would be prepared to teach English, Maths, Science, MFL, History, Geography, PE, Music, RE and all the other curriculum subjects that one person is supposed to deliver until the pupil reaches 11 and starts to have more specialist Teachers? I thought not, so please do not belittle the B.Ed. which, for many years, was the only way that Teachers could work in primary education. As I've already mentioned, secondary education was always seen to promote greater specialism, but either route does not make Teachers "unprofessional" as some would claim here. eurogordi
  • Score: 0

10:46pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..
In nomine Patris
Et Filii
Et Spiritus Sancti
Amen
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin!
I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked :

"I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !"

Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum.
As a retired teacher would you care to enlighten us as to what you receive by way of a pension? Plus what you expect to receive in the future..............
..

I appreciate good teachers - I have children who have benefited from being with good teachers, especially one of my children who is highly dyslexic.
I am against poor teachers whose continuance in education is merely as a result of Union support!

I know how the system worked/does work!

Poor teachers can remain in the system going from one school to another! That is totally unacceptable in any walk of life.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning[/p][/quote]Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..[/p][/quote]In nomine Patris Et Filii Et Spiritus Sancti Amen[/p][/quote]Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin![/p][/quote]I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked : "I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !" Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum.[/p][/quote]As a retired teacher would you care to enlighten us as to what you receive by way of a pension? Plus what you expect to receive in the future.............. .. I appreciate good teachers - I have children who have benefited from being with good teachers, especially one of my children who is highly dyslexic. I am against poor teachers whose continuance in education is merely as a result of Union support! I know how the system worked/does work! Poor teachers can remain in the system going from one school to another! That is totally unacceptable in any walk of life. George4th
  • Score: 0

11:02pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

VOR666 wrote:
Where on earth are you getting the idea that only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last ten years??? I promise you it is simply not true.
It is!
[quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: Where on earth are you getting the idea that only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last ten years??? I promise you it is simply not true.[/p][/quote]It is! George4th
  • Score: 0

11:08pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

VOR666 wrote:
I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.
It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful!

Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............
.....
[quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.[/p][/quote]It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful! Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............ ..... George4th
  • Score: 0

11:13pm Fri 21 Mar 14

George4th says...

charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject.

Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here.

I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.
So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further.

I'll bet you were a great teacher.

How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?
I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread.

Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit.

I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching.
So, you bailed out on a very good pension, EARLY! How can you comment on here when the ordinary man in the street cannot get close to the privileged position you found yourself in!
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?[/p][/quote]Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject. Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here. I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.[/p][/quote]So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further. I'll bet you were a great teacher. How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?[/p][/quote]I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread. Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit. I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching.[/p][/quote]So, you bailed out on a very good pension, EARLY! How can you comment on here when the ordinary man in the street cannot get close to the privileged position you found yourself in! George4th
  • Score: 0

11:40pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..
In nomine Patris
Et Filii
Et Spiritus Sancti
Amen
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin!
I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked :

"I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !"

Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum.
As a retired teacher would you care to enlighten us as to what you receive by way of a pension? Plus what you expect to receive in the future..............

..

I appreciate good teachers - I have children who have benefited from being with good teachers, especially one of my children who is highly dyslexic.
I am against poor teachers whose continuance in education is merely as a result of Union support!

I know how the system worked/does work!

Poor teachers can remain in the system going from one school to another! That is totally unacceptable in any walk of life.
What I bought and paid for is my business.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning[/p][/quote]Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..[/p][/quote]In nomine Patris Et Filii Et Spiritus Sancti Amen[/p][/quote]Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin![/p][/quote]I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked : "I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !" Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum.[/p][/quote]As a retired teacher would you care to enlighten us as to what you receive by way of a pension? Plus what you expect to receive in the future.............. .. I appreciate good teachers - I have children who have benefited from being with good teachers, especially one of my children who is highly dyslexic. I am against poor teachers whose continuance in education is merely as a result of Union support! I know how the system worked/does work! Poor teachers can remain in the system going from one school to another! That is totally unacceptable in any walk of life.[/p][/quote]What I bought and paid for is my business. charrlee
  • Score: 1

11:47pm Fri 21 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
charrlee wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!).

And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced.

The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.
Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

Note
I respect good teachers

I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.
Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions.

Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.
Please come down off your high horse!

"The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people."
Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers!
(What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!)

And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels!

Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect.
You earn respect.

In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust!

The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers.
The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.
That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now !
But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone?
George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers.
For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust.

I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened.

It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning
Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..
In nomine Patris
Et Filii
Et Spiritus Sancti
Amen
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin!
I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked :

"I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !"

Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum.
I am not easily offended, but do get annoyed at stupidity, just like to put a point of view across, I am not always right mind.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: To all those people who say that teachers are lazy money grabbers, can I please remind you that the average teacher works around 60+ hours per week, of which only 20 hours is actually spent in the classroom? The rest is used to mark coursework, prepare lessons and fill out all the paperwork required by successive governments (most of which is complete unnecessary to both the teacher and the pupil!). And before someone starts complaining about the long school holidays, these are to compensate the length of hours worked during school terms which also include parents evening, open evenings and twilight training sessions. Furthermore, many teachers now work for part of the holidays, supporting residential trips and, in August, cutting short their own holidays to provide support when GCSEs and A-levels are announced. The teachers deserve every penny they get and more, irrespective of whether that is in their salary or pension pot. Don't knock teachers until you have looked at the facts and asked yourself if you would do the job for less than what a similarly qualified professional earns in the private sector.[/p][/quote]Teachers are paid an average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days/1265 hours days = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! Note I respect good teachers I do not respect bad teachers, nor do I respect the Teacher Unions who protect them.[/p][/quote]Why are you comparing teachers to "average" and "ordinary" people? The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people. Nothing average or ordinary about that, and so that should be reflected in their pay and conditions. Too many people on this thread engaging in teacher bashing. Waste of time arguing with thinly-veiled trolling.[/p][/quote]Please come down off your high horse! "The majority are highly-educated, experienced and talented people." Many teachers are not highly qualified. For example the Labour government reduced the entry level qualifications to boost numbers. On top of that there are loads of people teaching who are not properly qualified or trained! The rule book was stretched to the point of absurdity because of the shortage of teachers! (What about all the foreign teachers we imported?! Many of whom had to be given English lessons in order to communicate!) And I remember the days when you could get into teachers training college on "O" Levels! Many Teachers think they are elitist and are owed respect. You earn respect. In any Private sector organisation, poor performers lose their jobs. You cannot afford to carry poor performers or you will go bust! The standard in our Education has gone down and down - you have to offload poor teachers. The poor teachers and the teaching Unions are depriving many of our children of a proper education and therefore a decent future.[/p][/quote]That was 44 years ago, George. Most of the teachers who got in with O levels only are in their 70' now ! But why was there a sudden shortage of teachers in the early 70's? Anyone? George? Yes! That's right ! ROSLA ! Jolly old government said lets raise the school leaving age (probably to bring down the unemployment figures prior to an election, maybe). And suddenly, every secondary school in the country needed another 10 teachers. For the next 40 years, various governments and an endless succession of secretaries of state for education introduced a vast number of new ideas and initiatives. Many schemes failed because they were not given enough time to take effect. Ministers who were unable to work "quick fixes" were replaced, and new schemes started. This left education in a constant state of turmoil. Thousands of good teachers left the profession in disgust. I could go on and on as lived through that era in teaching. I was there everyday, so I know exactly what happened. It's safe to say that the actions and interference of politicians over half a century led to the situation we find ourselves in today.[/p][/quote]Thats terrible of you ...... stating the FACTS that seem to get in the way of his moaning[/p][/quote]Some good points being made in support of the Teachers and from what I have read they have a good case, however there are never any winners when it gets down to Industrial Action, The only way for this to reach a satisfactory solution, as always, is for both sides to sit down and talk about it without restrictions. The strike won't solve the problem it is merely a tool to attract attention to the problem. It takes two to tango and both sides will have to give a little and meet in the middle. Quote: "Teachers can go on strike whenever they want", no they cannot, there are Rules that have to be adhered to and it has to be done through a ballot where a majority are in favour of action, it isn't a decision that they will have taken lightly. I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed..[/p][/quote]In nomine Patris Et Filii Et Spiritus Sancti Amen[/p][/quote]Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. I never did Latin![/p][/quote]I just thought your comment began to take on the qualities of a crowd-stirring speech, or an admonishment from the pulpit ! Actually, this might have worked : "I hope both sides come to their senses quickly, it is not them that will be affected in the long run, the innocent victims as always will be the youngsters whose education is being flawed. Because I've been to the mountain top, and I've looked over, and I've seeeeeeeeeeen the Promised Land ! Now I may not get with yuh, but I know that teachers, as a people, will get to the Promised Land ! !" Just a bit of fun, Osprey, no offence. I always read your posts and find them very well-considered and thought-provoking. You are a great asset to this forum.[/p][/quote]I am not easily offended, but do get annoyed at stupidity, just like to put a point of view across, I am not always right mind. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 1

11:55pm Fri 21 Mar 14

charrlee says...

George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject.

Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here.

I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.
So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further.

I'll bet you were a great teacher.

How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?
I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread.

Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit.

I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching.
So, you bailed out on a very good pension, EARLY! How can you comment on here when the ordinary man in the street cannot get close to the privileged position you found yourself in!
George 4th ! You've been winding people up with your own special brand of rhetorical rubbish for years.

This is an open forum and I have experience of the teaching profession over many decades. That gives me the right to comment.

Just because the "buy now pay later" generations got themselves into so much debt that inflation has gone through the roof is not my fault.

Privileged ? I went without early in life and invested in a future.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?[/p][/quote]Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject. Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here. I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.[/p][/quote]So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further. I'll bet you were a great teacher. How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?[/p][/quote]I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread. Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit. I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching.[/p][/quote]So, you bailed out on a very good pension, EARLY! How can you comment on here when the ordinary man in the street cannot get close to the privileged position you found yourself in![/p][/quote]George 4th ! You've been winding people up with your own special brand of rhetorical rubbish for years. This is an open forum and I have experience of the teaching profession over many decades. That gives me the right to comment. Just because the "buy now pay later" generations got themselves into so much debt that inflation has gone through the roof is not my fault. Privileged ? I went without early in life and invested in a future. charrlee
  • Score: 0

11:59pm Fri 21 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

George4th wrote:
VOR666 wrote:
I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.
It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful!

Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............

.....
As always you put your own political stance on everything Union, I have a lot to be thankfull for, the RMT protected my interests for my whole career so I will always defend them and any other organisation that stands up against adversity and unfairness in employment. The most succesful Companies will always be the ones that work with and consult with their employees, best through a Union because they know what is required to get a fair deal. What they don't need is outside influences interfering with the due process.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.[/p][/quote]It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful! Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............ .....[/p][/quote]As always you put your own political stance on everything Union, I have a lot to be thankfull for, the RMT protected my interests for my whole career so I will always defend them and any other organisation that stands up against adversity and unfairness in employment. The most succesful Companies will always be the ones that work with and consult with their employees, best through a Union because they know what is required to get a fair deal. What they don't need is outside influences interfering with the due process. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

12:02am Sat 22 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
charrlee wrote:
From the sidelines wrote:
So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension.

And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided.

Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.
If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.
I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides.

Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?
Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject.

Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here.

I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.
So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further.

I'll bet you were a great teacher.

How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?
I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread.

Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit.

I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching.
So, you bailed out on a very good pension, EARLY! How can you comment on here when the ordinary man in the street cannot get close to the privileged position you found yourself in!
I find it odd that you speak for the ordinary man on the street, what exactly is your idea of said person?
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]From the sidelines[/bold] wrote: So, as per usual, the teachers want to do less in their secure jobs, and for the taxpayer (that's you and me, assuming you work for a living) to give them more by way of salary and pension. And at a time when most taxpayers in the private sector have been subject to pay-freezes for years, many have been under threat of redundancy, and private pension funds have been repeatedly raided. Evidently, teaching is conducted without reference to the real world. Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking.[/p][/quote]If you had the slightest idea about the subject, and about what you are talking, you would never have written such foolishness.[/p][/quote]I have plenty of idea about the subject. From first-hand experience of both sides. Now, rather than writing off my points as foolishness, would you care to address them properly? Is that within your capabilities?[/p][/quote]Unfortunately for you I am a retired teacher, and I have recently been involved in several long, in-depth discussions on the two national papers to which I pay a pretty substantial subscription. Here I have written about the plight of Hardley School. So forgive me if I am tired of the subject. Your comments are facetious, and barbed with bitterness and sarcasm. Your foolishness, which is what it is, has been covered adequately, indirectly, by other readers here. I'm quite happy to dismiss your comments as nonsense, but I'll not engage with someone who says : "Perhaps they have redefined "fairness" while I wasn't looking." People like you will throw any old rubbish into the pot just for the sake of a ruck, so are not worth the bother.[/p][/quote]So you can dismiss my points as foolishness, but you're unable to engage with those points. And you'll not debate further. I'll bet you were a great teacher. How did it go? "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or was it, "because I say so"?[/p][/quote]I'm simply tired of talking "education" at the moment, OK ? I didn't want to repeat what I had said on other forums, or what other people were saying on this thread. Your sulky hostility based on unsubstantiated supposition does you no credit. I taught arts subjects, was considered "good" by OFSTED, and got on well with the pupils as a rule. I retired early because I got sick of all the endless unnecessary paperwork and meetings that were preventing me from running my after-school classes which I did for free. If I was starting over, I wouldn't go anywhere near teaching.[/p][/quote]So, you bailed out on a very good pension, EARLY! How can you comment on here when the ordinary man in the street cannot get close to the privileged position you found yourself in![/p][/quote]I find it odd that you speak for the ordinary man on the street, what exactly is your idea of said person? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

12:26am Sat 22 Mar 14

Mary80 says...

Just watch The Chase whenever they have teachers on who fail badly at questions any 5 year old would know. If you are teaching the next generation for the love of god please know which county Bournemouth is, or don't go on The Chase to expose you aren't as educated as you let on. And yes a primary school teacher got the Bournemouth question totally wrong
Just watch The Chase whenever they have teachers on who fail badly at questions any 5 year old would know. If you are teaching the next generation for the love of god please know which county Bournemouth is, or don't go on The Chase to expose you aren't as educated as you let on. And yes a primary school teacher got the Bournemouth question totally wrong Mary80
  • Score: 1

12:52am Sat 22 Mar 14

charrlee says...

Mary80 wrote:
Just watch The Chase whenever they have teachers on who fail badly at questions any 5 year old would know. If you are teaching the next generation for the love of god please know which county Bournemouth is, or don't go on The Chase to expose you aren't as educated as you let on. And yes a primary school teacher got the Bournemouth question totally wrong
Oh Mary ! How many viewers would they get if teachers always got the answers right ? Just like Kyle and the rest of it, it is all set up - manufactured - to get people watching. A lot of the Britains Got Talent failures where they argue and swear at the judges is all fake just to get viewers. That's entertainment !

By the way Mary - all those gangster films - they don't actually kill people !
[quote][p][bold]Mary80[/bold] wrote: Just watch The Chase whenever they have teachers on who fail badly at questions any 5 year old would know. If you are teaching the next generation for the love of god please know which county Bournemouth is, or don't go on The Chase to expose you aren't as educated as you let on. And yes a primary school teacher got the Bournemouth question totally wrong[/p][/quote]Oh Mary ! How many viewers would they get if teachers always got the answers right ? Just like Kyle and the rest of it, it is all set up - manufactured - to get people watching. A lot of the Britains Got Talent failures where they argue and swear at the judges is all fake just to get viewers. That's entertainment ! By the way Mary - all those gangster films - they don't actually kill people ! charrlee
  • Score: -1

10:51am Sat 22 Mar 14

George4th says...

There is no real substance to any of your responses.
You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias.

I could argue for teachers far better than you!
There is no real substance to any of your responses. You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias. I could argue for teachers far better than you! George4th
  • Score: 0

11:16am Sat 22 Mar 14

George4th says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
George4th wrote:
VOR666 wrote:
I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.
It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful!

Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............


.....
As always you put your own political stance on everything Union, I have a lot to be thankfull for, the RMT protected my interests for my whole career so I will always defend them and any other organisation that stands up against adversity and unfairness in employment. The most succesful Companies will always be the ones that work with and consult with their employees, best through a Union because they know what is required to get a fair deal. What they don't need is outside influences interfering with the due process.
Kettle? black?! You always put out your Labour stance!

The RMT is not typical of most Union representation!
Holding employers to ransom is not my idea of fair negotiation!!!

The Unions of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s negotiated the total demise of our manufacturing industries! Unions totally riddled with Left Wing Socialists/Communist
s (The late Bob Crowe was a Communist who only softened a tiny smidgen)

Harold Wilson was the first to try, and fail, to curtail the rampant Unions!

If you want employee/employer fairness in negotiation, Germany would have been a good example.

Given that in today's world the average Pension Pot for people in the UK is around £17,000 in Total (Vast majority have none). An annuity would get you a few hundred pounds A YEAR! Makes teachers et al look like millionaires!
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.[/p][/quote]It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful! Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............ .....[/p][/quote]As always you put your own political stance on everything Union, I have a lot to be thankfull for, the RMT protected my interests for my whole career so I will always defend them and any other organisation that stands up against adversity and unfairness in employment. The most succesful Companies will always be the ones that work with and consult with their employees, best through a Union because they know what is required to get a fair deal. What they don't need is outside influences interfering with the due process.[/p][/quote]Kettle? black?! You always put out your Labour stance! The RMT is not typical of most Union representation! Holding employers to ransom is not my idea of fair negotiation!!! The Unions of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s negotiated the total demise of our manufacturing industries! Unions totally riddled with Left Wing Socialists/Communist s (The late Bob Crowe was a Communist who only softened a tiny smidgen) Harold Wilson was the first to try, and fail, to curtail the rampant Unions! If you want employee/employer fairness in negotiation, Germany would have been a good example. Given that in today's world the average Pension Pot for people in the UK is around £17,000 in Total (Vast majority have none). An annuity would get you a few hundred pounds A YEAR! Makes teachers et al look like millionaires! George4th
  • Score: 1

11:46am Sat 22 Mar 14

charrlee says...

George4th wrote:
There is no real substance to any of your responses.
You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias.

I could argue for teachers far better than you!
If your input was worth anything, you would not waste your time in THIS forum talking to us, as we haven't a clue.

You are a sham, George4th, a complete fraud whose troll-like approach just makes us laugh. Just write the word "IDIOT" along the bottom edge of your bathroom mirror, and stand in front of it. It will be the most important and significant connection you will have made in your entire life.

Please report this so the site admin can have a laugh too ! No need, just going to do so myself !
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There is no real substance to any of your responses. You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias. I could argue for teachers far better than you![/p][/quote]If your input was worth anything, you would not waste your time in THIS forum talking to us, as we haven't a clue. You are a sham, George4th, a complete fraud whose troll-like approach just makes us laugh. Just write the word "IDIOT" along the bottom edge of your bathroom mirror, and stand in front of it. It will be the most important and significant connection you will have made in your entire life. Please report this so the site admin can have a laugh too ! No need, just going to do so myself ! charrlee
  • Score: 0

12:30pm Sat 22 Mar 14

George4th says...

charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
There is no real substance to any of your responses.
You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias.

I could argue for teachers far better than you!
If your input was worth anything, you would not waste your time in THIS forum talking to us, as we haven't a clue.

You are a sham, George4th, a complete fraud whose troll-like approach just makes us laugh. Just write the word "IDIOT" along the bottom edge of your bathroom mirror, and stand in front of it. It will be the most important and significant connection you will have made in your entire life.

Please report this so the site admin can have a laugh too ! No need, just going to do so myself !
Well, you backed up my assessment of "no real substance"!

And then you compound it with insults.............
....................
....................
.
[quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There is no real substance to any of your responses. You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias. I could argue for teachers far better than you![/p][/quote]If your input was worth anything, you would not waste your time in THIS forum talking to us, as we haven't a clue. You are a sham, George4th, a complete fraud whose troll-like approach just makes us laugh. Just write the word "IDIOT" along the bottom edge of your bathroom mirror, and stand in front of it. It will be the most important and significant connection you will have made in your entire life. Please report this so the site admin can have a laugh too ! No need, just going to do so myself ![/p][/quote]Well, you backed up my assessment of "no real substance"! And then you compound it with insults............. .................... .................... . George4th
  • Score: 1

1:31pm Sat 22 Mar 14

charrlee says...

George4th wrote:
charrlee wrote:
George4th wrote:
There is no real substance to any of your responses.
You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias.

I could argue for teachers far better than you!
If your input was worth anything, you would not waste your time in THIS forum talking to us, as we haven't a clue.

You are a sham, George4th, a complete fraud whose troll-like approach just makes us laugh. Just write the word "IDIOT" along the bottom edge of your bathroom mirror, and stand in front of it. It will be the most important and significant connection you will have made in your entire life.

Please report this so the site admin can have a laugh too ! No need, just going to do so myself !
Well, you backed up my assessment of "no real substance"!

And then you compound it with insults.............

....................

....................

.
What educational qualifications do you have ? What are you ?
You spend most days on here attempting to provoke trouble, so you must be unemployed, or, as I suspect, unemployable.
What talents do you have ? Can you paint, draw, play a musical instrument, act, write or excel at some sport ?
What have you done for this world that might be considered valuable or altruistic ?

Might I remind you that on the two occasions that you have initiated an interaction with me, you have started with an insult.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charrlee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There is no real substance to any of your responses. You major on some minor point and are unable to discuss the subject of teachers rationally due to your ingrained ex teacher bias. I could argue for teachers far better than you![/p][/quote]If your input was worth anything, you would not waste your time in THIS forum talking to us, as we haven't a clue. You are a sham, George4th, a complete fraud whose troll-like approach just makes us laugh. Just write the word "IDIOT" along the bottom edge of your bathroom mirror, and stand in front of it. It will be the most important and significant connection you will have made in your entire life. Please report this so the site admin can have a laugh too ! No need, just going to do so myself ![/p][/quote]Well, you backed up my assessment of "no real substance"! And then you compound it with insults............. .................... .................... .[/p][/quote]What educational qualifications do you have ? What are you ? You spend most days on here attempting to provoke trouble, so you must be unemployed, or, as I suspect, unemployable. What talents do you have ? Can you paint, draw, play a musical instrument, act, write or excel at some sport ? What have you done for this world that might be considered valuable or altruistic ? Might I remind you that on the two occasions that you have initiated an interaction with me, you have started with an insult. charrlee
  • Score: 0

2:35pm Sat 22 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

You two need to stop this slanging match. This is surely about discussing the issues in the article, not hurling insults at each other.
You two need to stop this slanging match. This is surely about discussing the issues in the article, not hurling insults at each other. VOR666
  • Score: -1

3:42pm Sat 22 Mar 14

cantthinkofone says...

VOR666 wrote:
I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.
Crossing a picket line is crossing a picket line.

- Always get your round in
- Never cross a picket line
- Never vote Tory

Three simple rules for life.
[quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.[/p][/quote]Crossing a picket line is crossing a picket line. - Always get your round in - Never cross a picket line - Never vote Tory Three simple rules for life. cantthinkofone
  • Score: 0

3:46pm Sat 22 Mar 14

cantthinkofone says...

George4th wrote:
VOR666 wrote:
I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.
It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful!

Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............

.....
IMO, it's in decline because the self-serving individualism of modern free-market ideology has eroded the concept of community and solidarity to a stump. People won't cough up subs for something that they don't think they need at that present moment, and don't feel any responsibility to support their fellow workers. A short-sighted selfishness that allows employers to then ride roughshod over their labour.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: I am not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT, but I am a teacher. I find Cantthinkofone's comment just ridiculous. Does the writer have any understanding of how unions work? I suspect not. NASUWT members are not scabs! Their union has not called them out on strike. It's as simple as that. It is also worth pointing out that NASUWT members will not be asked to cover for their striking NUT colleagues.[/p][/quote]It is in the interest of the Unions to protect the teachers in order to prolong their own existence and justification for doing what they do on their very good salaries whilst promoting their own political ideology!! Wonderful! Union membership has been in huge decline except in the Public Sector - why is that ?! The Public Sector is a promoter of self-protection, irrespective of who is incapable of doing the job properly............ .....[/p][/quote]IMO, it's in decline because the self-serving individualism of modern free-market ideology has eroded the concept of community and solidarity to a stump. People won't cough up subs for something that they don't think they need at that present moment, and don't feel any responsibility to support their fellow workers. A short-sighted selfishness that allows employers to then ride roughshod over their labour. cantthinkofone
  • Score: -1

3:49pm Sat 22 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

Crossing a picket line is crossing a picket line.

There will be no picket line.
Crossing a picket line is crossing a picket line. There will be no picket line. VOR666
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Sat 22 Mar 14

charrlee says...

VOR666 wrote:
You two need to stop this slanging match. This is surely about discussing the issues in the article, not hurling insults at each other.
As they say in the playground : He started it ! Lol !

Which of course he did. He always does. There are a number of deviants who haunt this forum, insulting people and trying to cause mayhem. The legendary poster Billy The Kid tried to take them on and ended up banned by a weak site administration who couldn't be bothered to get to the bottom of the problem. Ring any bells, VOR666 ?
[quote][p][bold]VOR666[/bold] wrote: You two need to stop this slanging match. This is surely about discussing the issues in the article, not hurling insults at each other.[/p][/quote]As they say in the playground : He started it ! Lol ! Which of course he did. He always does. There are a number of deviants who haunt this forum, insulting people and trying to cause mayhem. The legendary poster Billy The Kid tried to take them on and ended up banned by a weak site administration who couldn't be bothered to get to the bottom of the problem. Ring any bells, VOR666 ? charrlee
  • Score: -1

5:29pm Sun 23 Mar 14

Dan Soton says...

Some Teachers cant take a hint


Teachers up t'North are 20% to 40% better off.. Local Purchasing Power in Newcastle Upon Tyne is 79.36% higher than in Southampton,

http://tinyurl.com/o
8hg93n


Why isn't your Union asking you to strike for fairer North/South Cost of Living Allowances?


Your quick to strike for higher London weighting allowance, saying the cost of living in the capital is forcing you to leave the profession.


http://tinyurl.com/p
mn65vc


Here's the hint.. your local Union, the Labour Party and Tom Cobbley et al want you to migrate North..



,,



,,,











Liz Filer calls for a General Strike.. when


http://www.dailyecho
.co.uk/news/10747850
.Head_teacher_calls_
for_general_strike/?
action=success


How about striking for a fairer Cost of Living allowance at no cost to the taxpayer?



Link to... Cost of Living Southampton Vs Newcastle Upon Tyne


http://tinyurl.com/o
8hg93n



Liz Filer if you want more money you'll have to pay more Tax...


If you haven't noticed this government has set up a Middle class/Teachers Tax Rat Trap

This year everyone pays 40% on income above £32,011.. in 2011 that figure was £35,001.

Liz Filer if you want public support.. Strike for Lower Taxes for All and Fairer South/North Teachers Cost of Living Allowances.



P.S. Not that you'd show any support.. HMRC Tax allowances for the self employed should be at least 20% higher in the South..
Some Teachers cant take a hint Teachers up t'North are 20% to 40% better off.. Local Purchasing Power in Newcastle Upon Tyne is 79.36% higher than in Southampton, http://tinyurl.com/o 8hg93n Why isn't your Union asking you to strike for fairer North/South Cost of Living Allowances? Your quick to strike for higher London weighting allowance, saying the cost of living in the capital is forcing you to leave the profession. http://tinyurl.com/p mn65vc Here's the hint.. your local Union, the Labour Party and Tom Cobbley et al want you to migrate North.. ,, ,,, Liz Filer calls for a General Strike.. when http://www.dailyecho .co.uk/news/10747850 .Head_teacher_calls_ for_general_strike/? action=success How about striking for a fairer Cost of Living allowance at no cost to the taxpayer? Link to... Cost of Living Southampton Vs Newcastle Upon Tyne http://tinyurl.com/o 8hg93n Liz Filer if you want more money you'll have to pay more Tax... If you haven't noticed this government has set up a Middle class/Teachers Tax Rat Trap This year everyone pays 40% on income above £32,011.. in 2011 that figure was £35,001. Liz Filer if you want public support.. Strike for Lower Taxes for All and Fairer South/North Teachers Cost of Living Allowances. P.S. Not that you'd show any support.. HMRC Tax allowances for the self employed should be at least 20% higher in the South.. Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

5:31pm Sun 23 Mar 14

Dan Soton says...

Some Teachers cant take a hint


Teachers up t'North are 20% to 40% better off.. Local Purchasing Power in Newcastle Upon Tyne is 79.36% higher than in Southampton,

http://tinyurl.com/o
8hg93n


Why isn't your Union asking you to strike for fairer North/South Cost of Living Allowances?


Your quick to strike for higher London weighting allowance, saying the cost of living in the capital is forcing you to leave the profession.


http://tinyurl.com/p
mn65vc


Here's the hint.. your local Union, the Labour Party and Tom Cobbley et al want you to migrate North..



,,



,,,
Some Teachers cant take a hint Teachers up t'North are 20% to 40% better off.. Local Purchasing Power in Newcastle Upon Tyne is 79.36% higher than in Southampton, http://tinyurl.com/o 8hg93n Why isn't your Union asking you to strike for fairer North/South Cost of Living Allowances? Your quick to strike for higher London weighting allowance, saying the cost of living in the capital is forcing you to leave the profession. http://tinyurl.com/p mn65vc Here's the hint.. your local Union, the Labour Party and Tom Cobbley et al want you to migrate North.. ,, ,,, Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

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