Teachers strike: 20,000 pupils to stay away from school today

The strike in Southampton today

The strike in Southampton today

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Education Reporter

MORE than 20,000 pupils will stay at home today as teachers strike in the latest walkout over pay and conditions.

Schools will be closed and classrooms will remain empty as members of the National Union of Teachers (NUT) stage a one-day walkout.

The strike comes as union bosses warn that schools in Hampshire could be hit by a serious shortage of quality teachers as scores leave the profession due to increasing workload.

Hampshire education boss Peter Edgar said the county was seeing an “emerging problem” with the recruitment and retention of qualified teachers.

Southampton NUT secretary Pete Sopowski warned that such a shortage could force recruitment from overseas.

He said: “The worry is that graduates will be put off teaching when they consider what other jobs they could get for the same money and less of the workload. The worry is that teaching will be one of those jobs that people in this country won't want to do.”

Daily Echo:

He said teachers from overseas could be recruited in the same way posts have been filled in the NHS and other public services by migrant workers.

Cllr Edgar said the county was already seeing fewer applications for advertised teaching jobs whilst also recording more teachers leaving before retirement age.

He said: “We are seeing an emerging problem with the recruitment and retention of teachers in Hampshire, but that is a picture that is mirrored country-wide.

It is particularly noticeable in the area of maths, English and science teaching - the core curriculum subjects, he added.

Now education bosses are doing what they can to make teaching a more attractive career in Hampshire by ensuring support for teachers and head teachers which included personnel and career development services.

Daily Echo:

It's the same in Southampton where education chiefs say experienced teachers, particularly specialists, were becoming harder to recruit.

Striking teachers - who will not be paid today - are expected to rally at Guildhall Square at 11.30am today to demonstrate the depth of feeling towards the current government's pay offer of one per cent in the face of upping their pension contributions and a change to their pay scale.

A Department for Education spokesman said the saved money would stay within the school system as it would be retained by either the school or local authority.

Mr Sopowski pointed to a recent workload survey carried out by the Department for Education which said primary school teachers worked an average of 60 hours a week whilst secondary school teachers worked on average 56 hours per week.

He said members had been left with no choice but to walk out with figures showing two in five teachers leave the profession within five years of starting the job due to the intense workload.

Daily Echo:

Almost two thirds of schools affected

TODAY'S strike will leave 64 per cent of schools in Southampton closed or partially closed today.

As of last night 40 schools in Hampshire had also notified the authority that they would be affected in some way by the industrial action.

Union bosses vowed to continue with the industrial action despite education minister Michael Gove writing an open letter to the seven main teaching unions, setting out the progress he believed had been made in an ongoing programme of talks between them and the Department for Education.

In the letter, he said he wanted to underline his commitment to the talks process, despite not personally taking part himself.

The NUT have criticised the move claiming the talks have not made any progress in the key areas of dispute and that the civil servants who have been at the negotiating table have been forbidden from discussing matters of policy.

Daily Echo:

Truancy figures released

THE STRIKE takes place today following the publication of the latest truancy figures by the Department for Education.

They show that record numbers of parents were hit with fines last year after their children skipped lessons.

The figures show 52,370 of the £60 penalty notices were issued to parents and guardians for a child's unauthorised absence from school in 2012/13 - up 27 per cent from 41,224 in 2011/12.

It comes after the rules on allowing parents to take their child out of school during term time changed, removing head teachers discretion to approve term-time holidays.

Daily Echo:

As previously reported by the Daily Echo, Southampton bucked the national trend by issuing fewer penalty notices to parents when compared year on year.

Southampton city council leader Simon Letts described the education system as sending “mixed messages” to parents given today's strike action in the face of the new stricter rules on term-time absences.

He said: “Parents are yet again having to make alternative arrangements - I am one of them - to look after their children who are not at school. I would urge the government to get back around the table and negotiate to resolve the issues.”

Comments (36)

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7:45am Wed 26 Mar 14

Mr sheep says...

can we give them a fine for our children being out of school during term time? as we get it banged into our heads that they must not be late or have any time off during a school day ! yet although I sympathise with why there on strike it seems very unfair that the children should suffer and parents have there working week disrupted and some can not afford to take time off . There's no point in strike action best way to deal with our problems is to vote the culprits out in the next general elections and get a party in that listens to the people and doesn't talk down to us
can we give them a fine for our children being out of school during term time? as we get it banged into our heads that they must not be late or have any time off during a school day ! yet although I sympathise with why there on strike it seems very unfair that the children should suffer and parents have there working week disrupted and some can not afford to take time off . There's no point in strike action best way to deal with our problems is to vote the culprits out in the next general elections and get a party in that listens to the people and doesn't talk down to us Mr sheep
  • Score: 0

8:47am Wed 26 Mar 14

Nod says...

A day missed from school.... the notice on my children's classroom door tells me thats the equivalent of them being 5 minutes late every day for a year.
A day missed from school.... the notice on my children's classroom door tells me thats the equivalent of them being 5 minutes late every day for a year. Nod
  • Score: 3

9:06am Wed 26 Mar 14

speedicut says...

My wife is "striking". She's had a stressful couple of days at work, so I said at least she could chill out at home today. She scowled and said she didn't have time to chill out and would be using the day to catch up with lesson planning, marking, paper work etc.
My wife is "striking". She's had a stressful couple of days at work, so I said at least she could chill out at home today. She scowled and said she didn't have time to chill out and would be using the day to catch up with lesson planning, marking, paper work etc. speedicut
  • Score: -2

9:21am Wed 26 Mar 14

one in a million says...

Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does!
Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does! one in a million
  • Score: 20

9:34am Wed 26 Mar 14

good-gosh says...

What an energetic looking bunch. The photo must be PT department.
What an energetic looking bunch. The photo must be PT department. good-gosh
  • Score: 0

9:53am Wed 26 Mar 14

ToastyTea says...

Must be so hard being on a good salary and having loads of holiday each year for teaching some kids
Must be so hard being on a good salary and having loads of holiday each year for teaching some kids ToastyTea
  • Score: -2

10:15am Wed 26 Mar 14

aldermoorboy says...

Teachers won't win this fight, they get a good deal now.
Well done all the teachers that did not strike.
Teachers won't win this fight, they get a good deal now. Well done all the teachers that did not strike. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 2

10:19am Wed 26 Mar 14

newsknight says...

If we did not live in a politically correct world, and you could put a few hidden cameras around the place to see exactly what teachers have to deal with day-to-day you would understand the pressures of the job - until then, butt out and stop bleating about what you do not understand. Half the comments here relate to 'poor parents' having to take care of their own children for a day! Try having an educational day - turn off the TV and talk to your children - some parents send children to school without even the ability to communicate or sit still and complete a required task - simple basics!!
If we did not live in a politically correct world, and you could put a few hidden cameras around the place to see exactly what teachers have to deal with day-to-day you would understand the pressures of the job - until then, butt out and stop bleating about what you do not understand. Half the comments here relate to 'poor parents' having to take care of their own children for a day! Try having an educational day - turn off the TV and talk to your children - some parents send children to school without even the ability to communicate or sit still and complete a required task - simple basics!! newsknight
  • Score: 9

10:37am Wed 26 Mar 14

Barney123 says...

Can't see what they are complaining about. They get a couple of weeks off soon and have a decent salary and pension. Compare this with other professional jobs where in the private sector a normal '9 to 5' is a thing of the past - you're either on a zero-hour contract or are on the beck-and-call of management, doing work far beyond 40 hours a week.
Can't see what they are complaining about. They get a couple of weeks off soon and have a decent salary and pension. Compare this with other professional jobs where in the private sector a normal '9 to 5' is a thing of the past - you're either on a zero-hour contract or are on the beck-and-call of management, doing work far beyond 40 hours a week. Barney123
  • Score: 4

10:43am Wed 26 Mar 14

Maine Lobster says...

one in a million wrote:
Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does!
Yes, the private sector have it tough don't they? I know plenty of people in the private sector whose pay has kept up with or exceeded inflation, they have company cars, expense accounts, they get christmas bonuses and more often that not they do far less worthwhile jobs than many public servants who contribute to their community and are made to pay for the bankers excessive risk taking leaving us all in the mire. Selfish comments.
[quote][p][bold]one in a million[/bold] wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does![/p][/quote]Yes, the private sector have it tough don't they? I know plenty of people in the private sector whose pay has kept up with or exceeded inflation, they have company cars, expense accounts, they get christmas bonuses and more often that not they do far less worthwhile jobs than many public servants who contribute to their community and are made to pay for the bankers excessive risk taking leaving us all in the mire. Selfish comments. Maine Lobster
  • Score: -10

10:46am Wed 26 Mar 14

footballfan123 says...

one in a million wrote:
Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does!
The strike is not just about selfish reasons. It is not just about teachers having to work harder. It is about about unrealistic pressures, unfair blame which teacher receive about children' s behaviour and achievement. Imagine going to work and not just working hard, (that is not a reason a reason to strike) but being told to do things that are impossible. Have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? As for holidays as a teacher myself I have no problem with children going on holiday in term time as a one off life changing experience. It's the Government that do! I get told how to teach by an interfering Government. When I teach, I am told what I must and must not do. Half of it I don't agree raises standards with children such as the example I have given. And when being realistic about things, if every child in the country gets top marks, who is going to do some of the jobs that don't need top marks? It is not true life to expect every child to be an academic genius! The strike is about unrealistic expectations for our children. Why should teachers get told off for not doing the impossible?
[quote][p][bold]one in a million[/bold] wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does![/p][/quote]The strike is not just about selfish reasons. It is not just about teachers having to work harder. It is about about unrealistic pressures, unfair blame which teacher receive about children' s behaviour and achievement. Imagine going to work and not just working hard, (that is not a reason a reason to strike) but being told to do things that are impossible. Have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? As for holidays as a teacher myself I have no problem with children going on holiday in term time as a one off life changing experience. It's the Government that do! I get told how to teach by an interfering Government. When I teach, I am told what I must and must not do. Half of it I don't agree raises standards with children such as the example I have given. And when being realistic about things, if every child in the country gets top marks, who is going to do some of the jobs that don't need top marks? It is not true life to expect every child to be an academic genius! The strike is about unrealistic expectations for our children. Why should teachers get told off for not doing the impossible? footballfan123
  • Score: -9

10:46am Wed 26 Mar 14

Maine Lobster says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
Teachers won't win this fight, they get a good deal now. Well done all the teachers that did not strike.
Shame on the teachers who did not strike and who left it to their colleagues to fight for ALL of the profession. Any improvements are of course enjoyed by every employee, whether they are in the union or not.
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: Teachers won't win this fight, they get a good deal now. Well done all the teachers that did not strike.[/p][/quote]Shame on the teachers who did not strike and who left it to their colleagues to fight for ALL of the profession. Any improvements are of course enjoyed by every employee, whether they are in the union or not. Maine Lobster
  • Score: -15

10:51am Wed 26 Mar 14

Maine Lobster says...

footballfan123 wrote:
one in a million wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does!
The strike is not just about selfish reasons. It is not just about teachers having to work harder. It is about about unrealistic pressures, unfair blame which teacher receive about children' s behaviour and achievement. Imagine going to work and not just working hard, (that is not a reason a reason to strike) but being told to do things that are impossible. Have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? As for holidays as a teacher myself I have no problem with children going on holiday in term time as a one off life changing experience. It's the Government that do! I get told how to teach by an interfering Government. When I teach, I am told what I must and must not do. Half of it I don't agree raises standards with children such as the example I have given. And when being realistic about things, if every child in the country gets top marks, who is going to do some of the jobs that don't need top marks? It is not true life to expect every child to be an academic genius! The strike is about unrealistic expectations for our children. Why should teachers get told off for not doing the impossible?
Many of the posters on here who criticise have no idea of the reality of the situation and just want to moan about unions or having to look after their children. The issues, as you rightly say are centred around Mr Gove's unrealistic proposals and silly targets, but the right wing posters here don't want to know about that.
[quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]one in a million[/bold] wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does![/p][/quote]The strike is not just about selfish reasons. It is not just about teachers having to work harder. It is about about unrealistic pressures, unfair blame which teacher receive about children' s behaviour and achievement. Imagine going to work and not just working hard, (that is not a reason a reason to strike) but being told to do things that are impossible. Have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? As for holidays as a teacher myself I have no problem with children going on holiday in term time as a one off life changing experience. It's the Government that do! I get told how to teach by an interfering Government. When I teach, I am told what I must and must not do. Half of it I don't agree raises standards with children such as the example I have given. And when being realistic about things, if every child in the country gets top marks, who is going to do some of the jobs that don't need top marks? It is not true life to expect every child to be an academic genius! The strike is about unrealistic expectations for our children. Why should teachers get told off for not doing the impossible?[/p][/quote]Many of the posters on here who criticise have no idea of the reality of the situation and just want to moan about unions or having to look after their children. The issues, as you rightly say are centred around Mr Gove's unrealistic proposals and silly targets, but the right wing posters here don't want to know about that. Maine Lobster
  • Score: -13

10:58am Wed 26 Mar 14

footballfan123 says...

This is not just about working hard and doing long hours. We all work hard. It is about a profession where morale is very low and teachers are exhausted with paper work and initiatives which do not help our children. Would it not be better for our children if teachers were less tired and could do more teaching instead of filling out results and percentages just for the Government to prepare league tables? It is also not helpful for every child to force them to achieve highly when some are not capable. It makes them feel thick. We are all different and not every child has the ability to get top marks. If ANY child does not get top marks, the teacher is put under terrible pressure. The kids are not robots! It is all wrong and unrealistic. This strike is not just about teachers not wanting to work hard. Teachers work dam hard. It is about protecting the future for our kids. Do we really want miserable kids sitting in rows like in China chanting their times tables? Is this the best thing for our children?
This is not just about working hard and doing long hours. We all work hard. It is about a profession where morale is very low and teachers are exhausted with paper work and initiatives which do not help our children. Would it not be better for our children if teachers were less tired and could do more teaching instead of filling out results and percentages just for the Government to prepare league tables? It is also not helpful for every child to force them to achieve highly when some are not capable. It makes them feel thick. We are all different and not every child has the ability to get top marks. If ANY child does not get top marks, the teacher is put under terrible pressure. The kids are not robots! It is all wrong and unrealistic. This strike is not just about teachers not wanting to work hard. Teachers work dam hard. It is about protecting the future for our kids. Do we really want miserable kids sitting in rows like in China chanting their times tables? Is this the best thing for our children? footballfan123
  • Score: -6

11:01am Wed 26 Mar 14

one in a million says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
one in a million wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does!
Yes, the private sector have it tough don't they? I know plenty of people in the private sector whose pay has kept up with or exceeded inflation, they have company cars, expense accounts, they get christmas bonuses and more often that not they do far less worthwhile jobs than many public servants who contribute to their community and are made to pay for the bankers excessive risk taking leaving us all in the mire. Selfish comments.
I'd like to meet these mythical people you refer to, in my experience the majority do not receive such perks at all and look on in amazement at the attitudes to be found in the public sector where a different work ethic seems to prevail at the tax-payers expense.
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]one in a million[/bold] wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does![/p][/quote]Yes, the private sector have it tough don't they? I know plenty of people in the private sector whose pay has kept up with or exceeded inflation, they have company cars, expense accounts, they get christmas bonuses and more often that not they do far less worthwhile jobs than many public servants who contribute to their community and are made to pay for the bankers excessive risk taking leaving us all in the mire. Selfish comments.[/p][/quote]I'd like to meet these mythical people you refer to, in my experience the majority do not receive such perks at all and look on in amazement at the attitudes to be found in the public sector where a different work ethic seems to prevail at the tax-payers expense. one in a million
  • Score: 18

11:35am Wed 26 Mar 14

Happyface says...

I work in a private sector job for a legal firm. I often have to do 55+ hours a week to keep up with the work load, that is without taken into account the hours I work from home – no overtime paid, I do not get a pension, I get 20 days holiday a year and last got a pay rise two years a go. Fed up with public sector striking, they should be grateful for the job they have and all the benefits they get as public sectors do not get the same.
I work in a private sector job for a legal firm. I often have to do 55+ hours a week to keep up with the work load, that is without taken into account the hours I work from home – no overtime paid, I do not get a pension, I get 20 days holiday a year and last got a pay rise two years a go. Fed up with public sector striking, they should be grateful for the job they have and all the benefits they get as public sectors do not get the same. Happyface
  • Score: 5

11:40am Wed 26 Mar 14

George4th says...

(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers. George4th
  • Score: 9

11:59am Wed 26 Mar 14

footballfan123 says...

George4th wrote:
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve!
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: (This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers.[/p][/quote]People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve! footballfan123
  • Score: -2

12:04pm Wed 26 Mar 14

footballfan123 says...

footballfan123 wrote:
George4th wrote:
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve!
plus the Global Education League tables take into account the children who are in education! In the UK nearly 100% of children go to school. In China the percentage is less! So there is a percentage of children not recorded in the league tables. Did you know that?
[quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: (This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers.[/p][/quote]People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve![/p][/quote]plus the Global Education League tables take into account the children who are in education! In the UK nearly 100% of children go to school. In China the percentage is less! So there is a percentage of children not recorded in the league tables. Did you know that? footballfan123
  • Score: -6

12:18pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Lone Ranger. says...

footballfan123 wrote:
footballfan123 wrote:
George4th wrote:
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve!
plus the Global Education League tables take into account the children who are in education! In the UK nearly 100% of children go to school. In China the percentage is less! So there is a percentage of children not recorded in the league tables. Did you know that?
Excellent post ....... many people support the teachers in this ..... as the majority of people feel that the teacher is undervalued.
.
Your point is well made
[quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: (This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers.[/p][/quote]People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve![/p][/quote]plus the Global Education League tables take into account the children who are in education! In the UK nearly 100% of children go to school. In China the percentage is less! So there is a percentage of children not recorded in the league tables. Did you know that?[/p][/quote]Excellent post ....... many people support the teachers in this ..... as the majority of people feel that the teacher is undervalued. . Your point is well made Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Forest Resident says...

Even as a parent myself I fully support ALL workers and the fundamental employment right to withdraw their labour, regardless of the impact on others. That being said I recognise that it is pointless trying to argue right or wrong on here, what must be acknowledged though is that without teachers you would not have this newspaper, it's website, or indeed the comprehension to utilise the English language to convey your respective point of view on what is a straight forward dispute between employer and employee. The same legalisative framework that allows workers to withdraw labour also allows workers to take leave (unpaid of otherwise) to care for ones children at short notice, thus making any argument regarding the strikes impact on childcare almost irrelevant.
Even as a parent myself I fully support ALL workers and the fundamental employment right to withdraw their labour, regardless of the impact on others. That being said I recognise that it is pointless trying to argue right or wrong on here, what must be acknowledged though is that without teachers you would not have this newspaper, it's website, or indeed the comprehension to utilise the English language to convey your respective point of view on what is a straight forward dispute between employer and employee. The same legalisative framework that allows workers to withdraw labour also allows workers to take leave (unpaid of otherwise) to care for ones children at short notice, thus making any argument regarding the strikes impact on childcare almost irrelevant. Forest Resident
  • Score: 7

12:19pm Wed 26 Mar 14

charrlee says...

George4th wrote:
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)
You are an ill-informed idiot !
There is a teacher shortage. They cannot get teachers, let alone good ones. If they root out all the "poor performing" ones, there won't be any f****** teachers left !
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: (This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers.[/p][/quote](This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) You are an ill-informed idiot ! There is a teacher shortage. They cannot get teachers, let alone good ones. If they root out all the "poor performing" ones, there won't be any f****** teachers left ! charrlee
  • Score: 2

12:23pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Biglad21 says...

get back to work you lazy bunch... how is your job any different from mine? i am stress and over worked... i have a choice get on with it or quit and do something else....

only difference is i get 4 weeks holiday a year YOU get 13!!

lazy gits
get back to work you lazy bunch... how is your job any different from mine? i am stress and over worked... i have a choice get on with it or quit and do something else.... only difference is i get 4 weeks holiday a year YOU get 13!! lazy gits Biglad21
  • Score: 2

12:29pm Wed 26 Mar 14

aldermoorboy says...

Maine Lobster says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
Teachers won't win this fight, they get a good deal now. Well done all the teachers that did not strike.
Shame on the teachers who did not strike and who left it to their colleagues to fight for ALL of the profession. Any improvements are of course enjoyed by every employee, whether they are in the union or not.

These striking teachers say they cannot work till 68, but everyone else will have to. They could retire earlier and take a smaller pension.
They must get real, we are all living longer, so we all have to work longer.
They won't win this fight just like the doctors backed down when I believe they said they could not live on a £70,000 pension.
Get back to work for the sake of the children who will be working to pay for your pensions.
Maine Lobster says... aldermoorboy wrote: Teachers won't win this fight, they get a good deal now. Well done all the teachers that did not strike. Shame on the teachers who did not strike and who left it to their colleagues to fight for ALL of the profession. Any improvements are of course enjoyed by every employee, whether they are in the union or not. These striking teachers say they cannot work till 68, but everyone else will have to. They could retire earlier and take a smaller pension. They must get real, we are all living longer, so we all have to work longer. They won't win this fight just like the doctors backed down when I believe they said they could not live on a £70,000 pension. Get back to work for the sake of the children who will be working to pay for your pensions. aldermoorboy
  • Score: -1

12:34pm Wed 26 Mar 14

wwozzer says...

one in a million wrote:
Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does!
And yet here you are ranting at 9.30 in the morning, work a bit slow is it? Or let me guess, oh...you must work nights yeah?

Simple fact is there isn't a single teacher out there who would have the time to post comments on here at anytime of the school day, they are totally over worked and exhausted, I know because I live with one and I see her come home every night stressed to breaking point and still they heap more and more work on her.
[quote][p][bold]one in a million[/bold] wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does![/p][/quote]And yet here you are ranting at 9.30 in the morning, work a bit slow is it? Or let me guess, oh...you must work nights yeah? Simple fact is there isn't a single teacher out there who would have the time to post comments on here at anytime of the school day, they are totally over worked and exhausted, I know because I live with one and I see her come home every night stressed to breaking point and still they heap more and more work on her. wwozzer
  • Score: 3

12:48pm Wed 26 Mar 14

chimneysweep 1234 says...

And u mugs trust these holagan ..thug strikers to teach your kids ..fine them 50 pounds each day of strike ..They get great holidays ...and have a great pay get over it u lazy bunch
And u mugs trust these holagan ..thug strikers to teach your kids ..fine them 50 pounds each day of strike ..They get great holidays ...and have a great pay get over it u lazy bunch chimneysweep 1234
  • Score: -4

1:09pm Wed 26 Mar 14

charrlee says...

These illiterate lumps posting partially-coherent stabs at abuse of the English language condemning the teachers action - are they.......are they.....parents? Oh God ! They ARE, aren't they? The losers that can never find a pen amongst the pizza cartons, empty beer cans, and chip bags in the kitchen to sign their child's homework diary. Parents by name, but not by nature. "Tracy! Git dahna shop an git us sum fags! What? S*d the 'omework! Oi wonts sum fags!"

Sorry, site admin and regular users. Just giving certain people here a dose of their own medicine !
These illiterate lumps posting partially-coherent stabs at abuse of the English language condemning the teachers action - are they.......are they.....parents? Oh God ! They ARE, aren't they? The losers that can never find a pen amongst the pizza cartons, empty beer cans, and chip bags in the kitchen to sign their child's homework diary. Parents by name, but not by nature. "Tracy! Git dahna shop an git us sum fags! What? S*d the 'omework! Oi wonts sum fags!" Sorry, site admin and regular users. Just giving certain people here a dose of their own medicine ! charrlee
  • Score: 1

1:33pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Kingontail says...

wwozzer wrote:
one in a million wrote:
Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does!
And yet here you are ranting at 9.30 in the morning, work a bit slow is it? Or let me guess, oh...you must work nights yeah?

Simple fact is there isn't a single teacher out there who would have the time to post comments on here at anytime of the school day, they are totally over worked and exhausted, I know because I live with one and I see her come home every night stressed to breaking point and still they heap more and more work on her.
Spot on - they are expected to act a surrogate parents for lazy scumbag parents who have no interest in their children's education or behaviour. Instead of fluoride, perhaps in certain homes something stronger could be used.
[quote][p][bold]wwozzer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]one in a million[/bold] wrote: Sorry no sympathy whatsoever; most of us are in the same boat and don't throw our toys out ot our prams but get on with it. Give them a year or two in the private sector and they'd soon realise how privileged they are with the terms and conditions they have and not penalise hard working parents who have to take time off so teachers can carry on with their utopian dreams at our expense bleating about how "hard" they work as if no-one else does![/p][/quote]And yet here you are ranting at 9.30 in the morning, work a bit slow is it? Or let me guess, oh...you must work nights yeah? Simple fact is there isn't a single teacher out there who would have the time to post comments on here at anytime of the school day, they are totally over worked and exhausted, I know because I live with one and I see her come home every night stressed to breaking point and still they heap more and more work on her.[/p][/quote]Spot on - they are expected to act a surrogate parents for lazy scumbag parents who have no interest in their children's education or behaviour. Instead of fluoride, perhaps in certain homes something stronger could be used. Kingontail
  • Score: 3

2:50pm Wed 26 Mar 14

George4th says...

footballfan123 wrote:
George4th wrote:
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve!
Whilst I sympathise with many of your points, out of a workforce of over 440,000 teachers only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because it is hard for a Head to sack a teacher who has the backing of the Unions therefore my view is that the Unions are not using their position for the betterment of the education of our children or respecting the good teachers but for their own ends................
..

Ofsted - the Inspector has to take into account the behaviour of the pupils being taught and yes, I know that life is tough for a lot of teachers and I respect them for their efforts and dedication BUT I do not respect poor teachers!
A teacher earns on average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the national average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days -1265 hours = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

(Poor parenting is another subject and one that has to be tackled quickly by whoever is in government)
[quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: (This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers.[/p][/quote]People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve![/p][/quote]Whilst I sympathise with many of your points, out of a workforce of over 440,000 teachers only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because it is hard for a Head to sack a teacher who has the backing of the Unions therefore my view is that the Unions are not using their position for the betterment of the education of our children or respecting the good teachers but for their own ends................ .. Ofsted - the Inspector has to take into account the behaviour of the pupils being taught and yes, I know that life is tough for a lot of teachers and I respect them for their efforts and dedication BUT I do not respect poor teachers! A teacher earns on average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the national average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days -1265 hours = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! (Poor parenting is another subject and one that has to be tackled quickly by whoever is in government) George4th
  • Score: 3

3:29pm Wed 26 Mar 14

footballfan123 says...

George4th wrote:
footballfan123 wrote:
George4th wrote:
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve!
Whilst I sympathise with many of your points, out of a workforce of over 440,000 teachers only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because it is hard for a Head to sack a teacher who has the backing of the Unions therefore my view is that the Unions are not using their position for the betterment of the education of our children or respecting the good teachers but for their own ends................

..

Ofsted - the Inspector has to take into account the behaviour of the pupils being taught and yes, I know that life is tough for a lot of teachers and I respect them for their efforts and dedication BUT I do not respect poor teachers!
A teacher earns on average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the national average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days -1265 hours = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

(Poor parenting is another subject and one that has to be tackled quickly by whoever is in government)
Believe me, as a an experienced teacher, teachers who really are "poor" are rooted out. As in any profession you have a few who are not up to the task. They are not sacked, generally they are forced to resign. They are put on capability proceedings in which they are put under intolerable pressure. I have seen a few but these were teachers who were not marking books etc. Rooting out poor teachers has been happening for years way before this Government got in. What is happening now is that GOOD teachers are being put under intolerable pressure for not enabling every child even the children who are living in awful conditions, to achieve highly. This is resulting in good teachers leaving. My school is now struggling genuinely to find replacements. This is effecting the education of children. What is not fair is that GOOD teachers are being forced to leave because of awful pressure and a culture of fear. These are teachers working 60 hours a week and they are good teachers.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: (This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers.[/p][/quote]People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve![/p][/quote]Whilst I sympathise with many of your points, out of a workforce of over 440,000 teachers only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because it is hard for a Head to sack a teacher who has the backing of the Unions therefore my view is that the Unions are not using their position for the betterment of the education of our children or respecting the good teachers but for their own ends................ .. Ofsted - the Inspector has to take into account the behaviour of the pupils being taught and yes, I know that life is tough for a lot of teachers and I respect them for their efforts and dedication BUT I do not respect poor teachers! A teacher earns on average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the national average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days -1265 hours = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! (Poor parenting is another subject and one that has to be tackled quickly by whoever is in government)[/p][/quote]Believe me, as a an experienced teacher, teachers who really are "poor" are rooted out. As in any profession you have a few who are not up to the task. They are not sacked, generally they are forced to resign. They are put on capability proceedings in which they are put under intolerable pressure. I have seen a few but these were teachers who were not marking books etc. Rooting out poor teachers has been happening for years way before this Government got in. What is happening now is that GOOD teachers are being put under intolerable pressure for not enabling every child even the children who are living in awful conditions, to achieve highly. This is resulting in good teachers leaving. My school is now struggling genuinely to find replacements. This is effecting the education of children. What is not fair is that GOOD teachers are being forced to leave because of awful pressure and a culture of fear. These are teachers working 60 hours a week and they are good teachers. footballfan123
  • Score: 5

3:36pm Wed 26 Mar 14

footballfan123 says...

footballfan123 wrote:
George4th wrote:
footballfan123 wrote:
George4th wrote:
(This is a repeat of my comment yesterday)

The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country.

The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous!
Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them.

Note - I respect good teachers.
People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve!
Whilst I sympathise with many of your points, out of a workforce of over 440,000 teachers only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because it is hard for a Head to sack a teacher who has the backing of the Unions therefore my view is that the Unions are not using their position for the betterment of the education of our children or respecting the good teachers but for their own ends................


..

Ofsted - the Inspector has to take into account the behaviour of the pupils being taught and yes, I know that life is tough for a lot of teachers and I respect them for their efforts and dedication BUT I do not respect poor teachers!
A teacher earns on average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the national average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days -1265 hours = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions!
They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people!

(Poor parenting is another subject and one that has to be tackled quickly by whoever is in government)
Believe me, as a an experienced teacher, teachers who really are "poor" are rooted out. As in any profession you have a few who are not up to the task. They are not sacked, generally they are forced to resign. They are put on capability proceedings in which they are put under intolerable pressure. I have seen a few but these were teachers who were not marking books etc. Rooting out poor teachers has been happening for years way before this Government got in. What is happening now is that GOOD teachers are being put under intolerable pressure for not enabling every child even the children who are living in awful conditions, to achieve highly. This is resulting in good teachers leaving. My school is now struggling genuinely to find replacements. This is effecting the education of children. What is not fair is that GOOD teachers are being forced to leave because of awful pressure and a culture of fear. These are teachers working 60 hours a week and they are good teachers.
This is affecting the education of children. What is not fair is that GOOD teachers are being forced to leave because of awful pressure and a culture of fear. These are teachers working 60 hours a week and they are good teachers. If a teacher comes in at 9 and leaves at 4 they do not last long! I have not many like it! Whatever a teachers contract says, they are doing booster classes to 5 in the evening, meeting social workers, meeting parents, going to subject leadership meetings, staff meetings and working out percentages for Government league tables. Teachers also go in some weekends. Working hard for our kids is not the issue. Can you imagine working this hard only to be told by your Government that your not good enough?
[quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]footballfan123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: (This is a repeat of my comment yesterday) The position of UK Plc in the Global Education League tables clearly spells out the inadequacies of the teaching in this country. The Unions should be rooting out poor performing teachers instead of protecting them and allowing them to remain in the education system to the detriment of the unlucky pupils who are the recipients of poor teaching. Any wage increase will also be given to the poor performing teachers - that's ludicrous! Retaining poor teachers is a slight on the majority of teachers who are performing well and whose respect is hindered by the poor performing teachers and the Unions who back them. Note - I respect good teachers.[/p][/quote]People arguing about who works the hardest and who works the most hours in private or state sector is not the point. This is also not about who supports which political party. I am sure there are many people in the private sector who work hard. For most teachers this is not about money!! I am a very well qualified teacher who could go and earn 50k in other sectors with my qualifications. I trained for 6 years! I chose teaching to make a difference to human lives and I do. But what is not being understood by some is that what is happening is wrong. I am not talking about money or pensions. I repeat again, have you met the child who shares a bedroom with 3 brothers and sisters in a flat, who never does their homework, who is off school sick 3 times a week, who constantly misbehaves? OFSTED come in and say that the teacher is totally to blame for their lack of academic progress. Is that fair do you think? Do you think that a teacher should be labelled as poor when this situation happens? This is not a left versus right question just say whether you think its fair!! So the good teachers who are not achieving the almost impossible in difficult estates are leaving the profession for being labelled poor when they are not!! These are the REAL issues. It's not really about money or I would have a been a train driver! As for the holidays, well they are not really holidays! Little do people know! Do you face parents who approach you with their vicious dogs because their child has been given a detention? They are only given a detention because they have not bothered with their work and its the teacher trying to get them to achieve![/p][/quote]Whilst I sympathise with many of your points, out of a workforce of over 440,000 teachers only 17 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the past 10 years! Why? Because it is hard for a Head to sack a teacher who has the backing of the Unions therefore my view is that the Unions are not using their position for the betterment of the education of our children or respecting the good teachers but for their own ends................ .. Ofsted - the Inspector has to take into account the behaviour of the pupils being taught and yes, I know that life is tough for a lot of teachers and I respect them for their efforts and dedication BUT I do not respect poor teachers! A teacher earns on average £8,000 to £9,000 more than the national average wage. Add to that their super duper benefits package. Add to that they are only contracted for 195 days -1265 hours = a 32.48 hour week! (That is a short week and leaves them with 66 days off!!!! (Yes, I know they use some for work). Add to that their almost unrivaled Index Linked Pensions! They are so far ahead of the majority of ordinary people! (Poor parenting is another subject and one that has to be tackled quickly by whoever is in government)[/p][/quote]Believe me, as a an experienced teacher, teachers who really are "poor" are rooted out. As in any profession you have a few who are not up to the task. They are not sacked, generally they are forced to resign. They are put on capability proceedings in which they are put under intolerable pressure. I have seen a few but these were teachers who were not marking books etc. Rooting out poor teachers has been happening for years way before this Government got in. What is happening now is that GOOD teachers are being put under intolerable pressure for not enabling every child even the children who are living in awful conditions, to achieve highly. This is resulting in good teachers leaving. My school is now struggling genuinely to find replacements. This is effecting the education of children. What is not fair is that GOOD teachers are being forced to leave because of awful pressure and a culture of fear. These are teachers working 60 hours a week and they are good teachers.[/p][/quote]This is affecting the education of children. What is not fair is that GOOD teachers are being forced to leave because of awful pressure and a culture of fear. These are teachers working 60 hours a week and they are good teachers. If a teacher comes in at 9 and leaves at 4 they do not last long! I have not many like it! Whatever a teachers contract says, they are doing booster classes to 5 in the evening, meeting social workers, meeting parents, going to subject leadership meetings, staff meetings and working out percentages for Government league tables. Teachers also go in some weekends. Working hard for our kids is not the issue. Can you imagine working this hard only to be told by your Government that your not good enough? footballfan123
  • Score: 2

4:46pm Wed 26 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

Mr Gove has no concept of the life of an inner city child. He thinks everybody lives in a very comfortable middle class bubble. Teachers spend a huge amount of time liaising with families, socialise services, the police etc. We deal on a daily basis with hungry children/neglected children/abused children/unwanted children as well as those who are sleeping on a friend's sofa as they have been thrown out of home etc. Whilst we are dealing with these situations and trying to ensure the children are safe, we also have to deal with abusive parents..........all this happens before we can even begin to think about teaching them and all this happens as each teacher and head teacher is under threat of losing their job if their pupils don't make at least expected progress. How can they make expected progress given the very real scenarios described above? Mr Gove makes impossible demands on teachers without understanding the circumstances in which they work. Teachers have to make their voices heard somehow. How else can it be done?
Mr Gove has no concept of the life of an inner city child. He thinks everybody lives in a very comfortable middle class bubble. Teachers spend a huge amount of time liaising with families, socialise services, the police etc. We deal on a daily basis with hungry children/neglected children/abused children/unwanted children as well as those who are sleeping on a friend's sofa as they have been thrown out of home etc. Whilst we are dealing with these situations and trying to ensure the children are safe, we also have to deal with abusive parents..........all this happens before we can even begin to think about teaching them and all this happens as each teacher and head teacher is under threat of losing their job if their pupils don't make at least expected progress. How can they make expected progress given the very real scenarios described above? Mr Gove makes impossible demands on teachers without understanding the circumstances in which they work. Teachers have to make their voices heard somehow. How else can it be done? VOR666
  • Score: 3

7:04pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Randoor says...

I feel for our teachers.

All they want is more money, less work and a better pension. Who amongst couldn't sympathise with that?
So what is it exactly that they're getting all steamed up about?

Well, for a start, there's their workload. They want smaller class sizes and shorter hours. And then there's the stress of the job. They want fewer inspections by Ofsted in order to take some of the pressure off.

And they don't like being told they'll have to retire later before they get their index linked taxpayer funded pensions. And they don't want to have to contribute more towards them either.

Then there's pay. Performance related pay? No thank you. The ability to have their pay set by the head teacher? Absolutely not. They should all get the same regardless. On a national pay scale.

And while we're at it, how about a big increase in regional allowances. Oh, and a pay rise.

But at least they're happy about their three months annual holiday - so that's something.

So, to summarise they want more money, better pensions, less work and less scrutiny. Or to put it another way, they want to opt out of everything the rest of us have to put up with. All for the sake of our children, of course.

As I said - I feel for our teachers. Highly educated but not highly intelligent they are being led like lambs to the slaughter by politically motivated left wing unions who want to bring the government down.
I feel for our teachers. All they want is more money, less work and a better pension. Who amongst couldn't sympathise with that? So what is it exactly that they're getting all steamed up about? Well, for a start, there's their workload. They want smaller class sizes and shorter hours. And then there's the stress of the job. They want fewer inspections by Ofsted in order to take some of the pressure off. And they don't like being told they'll have to retire later before they get their index linked taxpayer funded pensions. And they don't want to have to contribute more towards them either. Then there's pay. Performance related pay? No thank you. The ability to have their pay set by the head teacher? Absolutely not. They should all get the same regardless. On a national pay scale. And while we're at it, how about a big increase in regional allowances. Oh, and a pay rise. But at least they're happy about their three months annual holiday - so that's something. So, to summarise they want more money, better pensions, less work and less scrutiny. Or to put it another way, they want to opt out of everything the rest of us have to put up with. All for the sake of our children, of course. As I said - I feel for our teachers. Highly educated but not highly intelligent they are being led like lambs to the slaughter by politically motivated left wing unions who want to bring the government down. Randoor
  • Score: 0

7:15pm Wed 26 Mar 14

VOR666 says...

Maybe you should try it Randoor.......then you'll know what you're talking about.
Maybe you should try it Randoor.......then you'll know what you're talking about. VOR666
  • Score: 1

7:40pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Randoor says...

Randoor wrote:
I feel for our teachers.

All they want is more money, less work and a better pension. Who amongst couldn't sympathise with that?
So what is it exactly that they're getting all steamed up about?

Well, for a start, there's their workload. They want smaller class sizes and shorter hours. And then there's the stress of the job. They want fewer inspections by Ofsted in order to take some of the pressure off.

And they don't like being told they'll have to retire later before they get their index linked taxpayer funded pensions. And they don't want to have to contribute more towards them either.

Then there's pay. Performance related pay? No thank you. The ability to have their pay set by the head teacher? Absolutely not. They should all get the same regardless. On a national pay scale.

And while we're at it, how about a big increase in regional allowances. Oh, and a pay rise.

But at least they're happy about their three months annual holiday - so that's something.

So, to summarise they want more money, better pensions, less work and less scrutiny. Or to put it another way, they want to opt out of everything the rest of us have to put up with. All for the sake of our children, of course.

As I said - I feel for our teachers. Highly educated but not highly intelligent they are being led like lambs to the slaughter by politically motivated left wing unions who want to bring the government down.
NUT ,Press release , I believe I have covered the points raised
NUT National Strike Action - 26 March 2014 - press release





20 March 2014

On the 26 March the NUT will be taking national strike action in England and Wales. Marches and rallies will be held on the day, details of which can be seen here : http://www.teachers.
org.uk/strikerally This site will be updated as more details are confirmed.

Notification of the strike action was sent to Local Authorities, Academy Chains and to individual Free Schools on the 20 February.

The action is being taken against:
•Excessive workload and bureaucracy
•Performance related pay and in defence of a national pay scale system
•Unfair pension changes

Christine Blower, General Secretary of the National Union of Teachers, the largest teachers’ union said:

“Teachers deeply regret the disruption caused by this strike action to parents and teachers. The Government’s refusal, however, to engage to resolve the dispute means that we have no alternative other than to demonstrate the seriousness of our concerns.

“Teachers’ levels of workload are intolerable –the Government’s own survey, published last month, shows that primary school teachers work nearly 60 hours a week and secondary school teachers work nearly 56 hours a week. 2 in 5 teachers are leaving the profession in the first 5 years of teaching as are many others. This is bad for children and bad for education.

“Destroying the national pay framework means that in every school head teachers and governors have to worry about developing a pay system instead of focussing on teaching and learning. The Government’s performance related pay is unnecessary and will build unfairness and additional bureaucracy. Further, international evidence shows that performance related paydoes not work for schools.

“Teachers do not believe that they can work to the age of 68 or even later for a full pension – and they don’t believe it is educationally desirable either. The NUT recognises that other workers are having their pensions squeezed. We believe that this is wrong too – everyone should be entitled to a decent standard of living in retirement.

“Michael Gove can resolve this situation by listening to our concerns and doing something about them. Our concerns are not just for teachers but for the future standard and provision of education”.
[quote][p][bold]Randoor[/bold] wrote: I feel for our teachers. All they want is more money, less work and a better pension. Who amongst couldn't sympathise with that? So what is it exactly that they're getting all steamed up about? Well, for a start, there's their workload. They want smaller class sizes and shorter hours. And then there's the stress of the job. They want fewer inspections by Ofsted in order to take some of the pressure off. And they don't like being told they'll have to retire later before they get their index linked taxpayer funded pensions. And they don't want to have to contribute more towards them either. Then there's pay. Performance related pay? No thank you. The ability to have their pay set by the head teacher? Absolutely not. They should all get the same regardless. On a national pay scale. And while we're at it, how about a big increase in regional allowances. Oh, and a pay rise. But at least they're happy about their three months annual holiday - so that's something. So, to summarise they want more money, better pensions, less work and less scrutiny. Or to put it another way, they want to opt out of everything the rest of us have to put up with. All for the sake of our children, of course. As I said - I feel for our teachers. Highly educated but not highly intelligent they are being led like lambs to the slaughter by politically motivated left wing unions who want to bring the government down.[/p][/quote]NUT ,Press release , I believe I have covered the points raised NUT National Strike Action - 26 March 2014 - press release 20 March 2014 On the 26 March the NUT will be taking national strike action in England and Wales. Marches and rallies will be held on the day, details of which can be seen here : http://www.teachers. org.uk/strikerally This site will be updated as more details are confirmed. Notification of the strike action was sent to Local Authorities, Academy Chains and to individual Free Schools on the 20 February. The action is being taken against: •Excessive workload and bureaucracy •Performance related pay and in defence of a national pay scale system •Unfair pension changes Christine Blower, General Secretary of the National Union of Teachers, the largest teachers’ union said: “Teachers deeply regret the disruption caused by this strike action to parents and teachers. The Government’s refusal, however, to engage to resolve the dispute means that we have no alternative other than to demonstrate the seriousness of our concerns. “Teachers’ levels of workload are intolerable –the Government’s own survey, published last month, shows that primary school teachers work nearly 60 hours a week and secondary school teachers work nearly 56 hours a week. 2 in 5 teachers are leaving the profession in the first 5 years of teaching as are many others. This is bad for children and bad for education. “Destroying the national pay framework means that in every school head teachers and governors have to worry about developing a pay system instead of focussing on teaching and learning. The Government’s performance related pay is unnecessary and will build unfairness and additional bureaucracy. Further, international evidence shows that performance related paydoes not work for schools. “Teachers do not believe that they can work to the age of 68 or even later for a full pension – and they don’t believe it is educationally desirable either. The NUT recognises that other workers are having their pensions squeezed. We believe that this is wrong too – everyone should be entitled to a decent standard of living in retirement. “Michael Gove can resolve this situation by listening to our concerns and doing something about them. Our concerns are not just for teachers but for the future standard and provision of education”. Randoor
  • Score: -1

9:51pm Wed 26 Mar 14

manic75 says...

newsknight wrote:
If we did not live in a politically correct world, and you could put a few hidden cameras around the place to see exactly what teachers have to deal with day-to-day you would understand the pressures of the job - until then, butt out and stop bleating about what you do not understand. Half the comments here relate to 'poor parents' having to take care of their own children for a day! Try having an educational day - turn off the TV and talk to your children - some parents send children to school without even the ability to communicate or sit still and complete a required task - simple basics!!
We all have pressures in our jobs. I don't believe teachers have it harder than many other private sector jobs. I don't have any sympathy at all for their cause.
[quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: If we did not live in a politically correct world, and you could put a few hidden cameras around the place to see exactly what teachers have to deal with day-to-day you would understand the pressures of the job - until then, butt out and stop bleating about what you do not understand. Half the comments here relate to 'poor parents' having to take care of their own children for a day! Try having an educational day - turn off the TV and talk to your children - some parents send children to school without even the ability to communicate or sit still and complete a required task - simple basics!![/p][/quote]We all have pressures in our jobs. I don't believe teachers have it harder than many other private sector jobs. I don't have any sympathy at all for their cause. manic75
  • Score: 0

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