Glamorous waterfronts could inspire Southampton's £450m Royal Pier development

Daily Echo: The famous Sydney waterfront The famous Sydney waterfront

THEY are some of the world’s most well-known and glamorous waterfronts.

But stunning vistas from Sydney to South Africa and Copenhagen to Canada could inspire Southampton’s own £450million Royal Pier development.

At an exhibition in the city today, the developers behind the plans to transform Southampton’s waterfront will ask the public for their help in designing the complex.

Plans to transform the dilapidated pier into a complex featuring up to 700 homes, restaurants, bars, a hotel and a super-casino will be handed in next year.

It is hoped construction work could then begin in early 2016, although the development would not be completed for up to 15 years.

It would also see Mayflower Park expanded and improved, and it would become the home for a 40m high Spitfire memorial statue which was recently granted planning permission.

Daily Echo: Copenhagen

Today’s exhibition will take place from 3pm to 8pm at Westgate Hall in Westgate Street.

Royal Pier Waterfront (Southampton) Ltd, a joint venture company owned by developers Morgan Sindall Investments and funders Lucent Group, and planners Lyons, Sleeman and Hoare, are inviting members of the public to meet members of their design team.

They want the public to contribute their own ideas for the waterfront vision, while they will be seeking feedback on initial designs for the site.

The team will be drawing inspiration from some of the world’s most famous waterfront developments and they want to see what features prove most popular with Southampton residents.

Among the international sites that will be featured is the Darling Harbour redevelopment in Sydney, Australia, which features a shopping centre, museums and a brand new exhibition centre scheduled to open in 2016, and the flourishing Victoria and Albert Waterfront complex in Cape Town, South Africa.

They also include Toronto’s innovatively-designed H20 Park, which has transformed the Canadian city’s waterfront and the 17th century Nyhavn district in Copenhagen, Denmark, which is now a thriving leisure and heritage district.

Architect Nick Ralls, from Lyons, Sleeman and Hoare, said: “For a long time Southampton as a city has been largely disconnected from its waterfront: we aim to change this, and to celebrate its global maritime connections.

Daily Echo: Toronto

“Southampton deserves a destination waterfront that is vibrant, animated, and pleasant: somewhere people want to spend their time, whether it’s for work, play, shopping, or living. In looking for inspiration it is natural that we should turn to some of the world’s most exciting and successful waterfront destinations, such as those in Cape Town, Sydney, Copenhagen and Toronto.

“Each of these possess their own attributes that can add to a vibrant character for a new quayside development and fabulous new Mayflower Park.”

City council leader Simon Letts said: “I’m really excited by the proposals – this is the first opportunity for a generation to design build and deliver a new public park in the city and we’ve got to get it right.

“I hope we get a positive public reaction, I really want the public to engage with the proposals and let us know what they want to be there.”

Daily Echo: An artist's impression of the proposed development of Royal Pier.An initial artist's impression of what Royal Pier could look like

Comments (50)

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6:59am Fri 11 Jul 14

Kirsty666 says...

Id like to see the waterfront become more of an attraction rather than homes casinos and restaurants
Id like to see the waterfront become more of an attraction rather than homes casinos and restaurants Kirsty666
  • Score: 21

7:27am Fri 11 Jul 14

Yawner says...

Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront
Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront Yawner
  • Score: 30

7:30am Fri 11 Jul 14

Zexagon says...

I'll believe it when I see it. Seems like each week something's being drawn up
I'll believe it when I see it. Seems like each week something's being drawn up Zexagon
  • Score: 7

7:43am Fri 11 Jul 14

elvisimo says...

Yawner wrote:
Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront
Or a factory outlet.
[quote][p][bold]Yawner[/bold] wrote: Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront[/p][/quote]Or a factory outlet. elvisimo
  • Score: -12

8:27am Fri 11 Jul 14

Saint Botley says...

So what they're saying is we can probably write off our waterfront as a building site for the best part of two decades?! I thought they'd settled on a design for this and it was all supposed to happen over the next couple of years?
So what they're saying is we can probably write off our waterfront as a building site for the best part of two decades?! I thought they'd settled on a design for this and it was all supposed to happen over the next couple of years? Saint Botley
  • Score: 3

9:24am Fri 11 Jul 14

cliffwalker says...

Yawner wrote:
Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront
I agree. If only Southampton gets something half as good I'd be pleased. The Portsmouth seafront from Clarence Pier to the historic dockyard (including Gunwarf Quays!) is an example of what can be done with vision.
[quote][p][bold]Yawner[/bold] wrote: Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront[/p][/quote]I agree. If only Southampton gets something half as good I'd be pleased. The Portsmouth seafront from Clarence Pier to the historic dockyard (including Gunwarf Quays!) is an example of what can be done with vision. cliffwalker
  • Score: 18

9:30am Fri 11 Jul 14

allsaintsnocurves says...

If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower!

I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water.
If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower! I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water. allsaintsnocurves
  • Score: 16

9:47am Fri 11 Jul 14

sotonboy84 says...

In my opinion the designs are ok, not great but a huge improvement on what is currently there.

However, under no circumstances should the view of the water from Bugle Street and the old town be blocked in favour of private apartments. Southampton is a maritime city and this view of the water has been possible from here for 1000 years. Blocking it would destroy an important part of the city's history.
In my opinion the designs are ok, not great but a huge improvement on what is currently there. However, under no circumstances should the view of the water from Bugle Street and the old town be blocked in favour of private apartments. Southampton is a maritime city and this view of the water has been possible from here for 1000 years. Blocking it would destroy an important part of the city's history. sotonboy84
  • Score: 15

9:53am Fri 11 Jul 14

Solent Soul says...

Lots of sensible comments on here today, as has been previously said, you need not look any further than Portsmouth to see a great waterfront design, with a tall landmark, with a viewing tower. Come architects & designers, listen to what the public are saying!
Lots of sensible comments on here today, as has been previously said, you need not look any further than Portsmouth to see a great waterfront design, with a tall landmark, with a viewing tower. Come architects & designers, listen to what the public are saying! Solent Soul
  • Score: 9

9:53am Fri 11 Jul 14

chapelsaint says...

allsaintsnocurves wrote:
If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower!

I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water.
To be fair, you can get quite a good view from the top car park in Ikea.
[quote][p][bold]allsaintsnocurves[/bold] wrote: If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower! I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water.[/p][/quote]To be fair, you can get quite a good view from the top car park in Ikea. chapelsaint
  • Score: 3

10:35am Fri 11 Jul 14

allsaintsnocurves says...

chapelsaint wrote:
allsaintsnocurves wrote:
If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower!

I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water.
To be fair, you can get quite a good view from the top car park in Ikea.
Oh that's true lets not build it into a new £450m development on the waterfront because there's a view between buildings at the top of Ikea's car park! I take visitors there all the time and it really impresses them. The first thing they say is wow Southampton's such a lovely city with such great views from car parks. Get a few picnic tables up there between car spaces and we're laughing!
[quote][p][bold]chapelsaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allsaintsnocurves[/bold] wrote: If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower! I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water.[/p][/quote]To be fair, you can get quite a good view from the top car park in Ikea.[/p][/quote]Oh that's true lets not build it into a new £450m development on the waterfront because there's a view between buildings at the top of Ikea's car park! I take visitors there all the time and it really impresses them. The first thing they say is wow Southampton's such a lovely city with such great views from car parks. Get a few picnic tables up there between car spaces and we're laughing! allsaintsnocurves
  • Score: 2

10:39am Fri 11 Jul 14

Kyoboshi says...

Southampton has an Ikea ?
Southampton has an Ikea ? Kyoboshi
  • Score: -1

11:11am Fri 11 Jul 14

Big Mac says...

Kyoboshi wrote:
Southampton has an Ikea ?
Yes, unlike the council which as no ikea.
[quote][p][bold]Kyoboshi[/bold] wrote: Southampton has an Ikea ?[/p][/quote]Yes, unlike the council which as no ikea. Big Mac
  • Score: 13

11:32am Fri 11 Jul 14

chapelsaint says...

allsaintsnocurves wrote:
chapelsaint wrote:
allsaintsnocurves wrote:
If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower!

I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water.
To be fair, you can get quite a good view from the top car park in Ikea.
Oh that's true lets not build it into a new £450m development on the waterfront because there's a view between buildings at the top of Ikea's car park! I take visitors there all the time and it really impresses them. The first thing they say is wow Southampton's such a lovely city with such great views from car parks. Get a few picnic tables up there between car spaces and we're laughing!
Oh dear-I must have missed the Government Directive banning the use of humour. I shall now exile myself to the IOW.
[quote][p][bold]allsaintsnocurves[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chapelsaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allsaintsnocurves[/bold] wrote: If anyone can meet with this design team then please ask them what sort of iconic structures there will be in this design?? None of them look that inspiring. I was hoping for a tall sky-rise that could have a viewing platform at the top or a restaurant. Where can visitors go to look over the waterfront and see all the cruise ships as they come in?? Nowhere. Skylines are becoming much more important just look at London's changing skyline with all the new buildings like the Shard. Surely we could do something that equals the Spinnaker Tower! I would like to see lots of roof terraces around so the people of Southampton have somewhere to go on a sunny day and eat, drink with a great view of the city water.[/p][/quote]To be fair, you can get quite a good view from the top car park in Ikea.[/p][/quote]Oh that's true lets not build it into a new £450m development on the waterfront because there's a view between buildings at the top of Ikea's car park! I take visitors there all the time and it really impresses them. The first thing they say is wow Southampton's such a lovely city with such great views from car parks. Get a few picnic tables up there between car spaces and we're laughing![/p][/quote]Oh dear-I must have missed the Government Directive banning the use of humour. I shall now exile myself to the IOW. chapelsaint
  • Score: 5

11:35am Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in. southy
  • Score: -3

11:36am Fri 11 Jul 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

" stunning vistas from Sydney to South Africa and Copenhagen to Canada"

What an inspiring sound bite?

But apart from our councillors, pen pushers in planning department and Council's well paid spin doctors, how many others belive miracles like virgin births?

Tthose who with reasonable justification argue that Southampton Council under all parties over last few decades has been busy doing more damage to our city than evil monster Hitler's bombs, may get proven right once again.

Most of us can only anticipate, more traffic diversions and grid locks.

Rather than keep on putting faith in glossy presentations of developers, who want to build for yuppies for quick profits, why can't the Council stop falling for pies in the sky, and get on with some simple scheme that may tidy up the place and could become user friendly for ordinary people of our City.
" stunning vistas from Sydney to South Africa and Copenhagen to Canada" What an inspiring sound bite? But apart from our councillors, pen pushers in planning department and Council's well paid spin doctors, how many others belive miracles like virgin births? Tthose who with reasonable justification argue that Southampton Council under all parties over last few decades has been busy doing more damage to our city than evil monster Hitler's bombs, may get proven right once again. Most of us can only anticipate, more traffic diversions and grid locks. Rather than keep on putting faith in glossy presentations of developers, who want to build for yuppies for quick profits, why can't the Council stop falling for pies in the sky, and get on with some simple scheme that may tidy up the place and could become user friendly for ordinary people of our City. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 2

11:44am Fri 11 Jul 14

mrtein says...

Note there are already application notices up in mayflower park concerning the application for a super casino. Anybody feel the city needs another casino?

Remember the reality will look nothing like the sexy drawings and models.

I suspect the waterside parking that many elderly and disabled people use and enjoy in mayflower will be go.

And please how are al the extra cars going to move around. Our city ois a peninsula. West Quay, Ikea, St marys, the cryuise ships, the new Bowling alley devleopment, this devleopment. Roads are gridlocked already.

A park and ride maybe? better public transport links. ????
Note there are already application notices up in mayflower park concerning the application for a super casino. Anybody feel the city needs another casino? Remember the reality will look nothing like the sexy drawings and models. I suspect the waterside parking that many elderly and disabled people use and enjoy in mayflower will be go. And please how are al the extra cars going to move around. Our city ois a peninsula. West Quay, Ikea, St marys, the cryuise ships, the new Bowling alley devleopment, this devleopment. Roads are gridlocked already. A park and ride maybe? better public transport links. ???? mrtein
  • Score: 2

11:47am Fri 11 Jul 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

southy wrote:
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
Peter, I know nothing about what happened at the place you have mentioned, but think that even without trying to create any stink (which you think could be the end result) many potential visitors are discouraged from coming to Southampton by traffic jams and even thanks to Cllr. Jacqui Rament even complete grid locks.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.[/p][/quote]Peter, I know nothing about what happened at the place you have mentioned, but think that even without trying to create any stink (which you think could be the end result) many potential visitors are discouraged from coming to Southampton by traffic jams and even thanks to Cllr. Jacqui Rament even complete grid locks. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 1

12:14pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

mrtein wrote:
Note there are already application notices up in mayflower park concerning the application for a super casino. Anybody feel the city needs another casino?

Remember the reality will look nothing like the sexy drawings and models.

I suspect the waterside parking that many elderly and disabled people use and enjoy in mayflower will be go.

And please how are al the extra cars going to move around. Our city ois a peninsula. West Quay, Ikea, St marys, the cryuise ships, the new Bowling alley devleopment, this devleopment. Roads are gridlocked already.

A park and ride maybe? better public transport links. ????
Thanks for the info on the application notices at Mayflower park, are they Public notices applications do you know.
[quote][p][bold]mrtein[/bold] wrote: Note there are already application notices up in mayflower park concerning the application for a super casino. Anybody feel the city needs another casino? Remember the reality will look nothing like the sexy drawings and models. I suspect the waterside parking that many elderly and disabled people use and enjoy in mayflower will be go. And please how are al the extra cars going to move around. Our city ois a peninsula. West Quay, Ikea, St marys, the cryuise ships, the new Bowling alley devleopment, this devleopment. Roads are gridlocked already. A park and ride maybe? better public transport links. ????[/p][/quote]Thanks for the info on the application notices at Mayflower park, are they Public notices applications do you know. southy
  • Score: 1

12:16pm Fri 11 Jul 14

wibble70 says...

It is a crying shame that for a fascinating and interesting historical city, there is no coordinated and combined heritage feature next to the sea that would be a destination in itself for tourists and enthusiasts alike. The 'Sea City' and 'Solent Sky' museums are OK in their own limited way but will never attract the visitor numbers alone and particularly without access to the sea. If Southampton is serious about being a destination then it needs a combined larger-scale museum to house the exhibits of the above museums, close to the Spitfire Memorial, plus hidden gems such as the Calshot Lighthouse, trams, ww2 boats and so on, and include access to the water itself with access to board historical boats, flying boats etc. Sea City museum should then become an extension of the brilliant Art Gallery and Solent Sky knocked down to be offices/flats.

I see no reason why this and a tall viewing platform cannot be incorporated into the development alongside the big money-spinning office/flats/casino side of things.
It is a crying shame that for a fascinating and interesting historical city, there is no coordinated and combined heritage feature next to the sea that would be a destination in itself for tourists and enthusiasts alike. The 'Sea City' and 'Solent Sky' museums are OK in their own limited way but will never attract the visitor numbers alone and particularly without access to the sea. If Southampton is serious about being a destination then it needs a combined larger-scale museum to house the exhibits of the above museums, close to the Spitfire Memorial, plus hidden gems such as the Calshot Lighthouse, trams, ww2 boats and so on, and include access to the water itself with access to board historical boats, flying boats etc. Sea City museum should then become an extension of the brilliant Art Gallery and Solent Sky knocked down to be offices/flats. I see no reason why this and a tall viewing platform cannot be incorporated into the development alongside the big money-spinning office/flats/casino side of things. wibble70
  • Score: 4

12:29pm Fri 11 Jul 14

phil maccavity says...

southy wrote:
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
Southy
Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know.
The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US.
Perhaps they all wear gas masks!!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.[/p][/quote]Southy Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know. The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US. Perhaps they all wear gas masks!! phil maccavity
  • Score: 2

12:33pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
Peter, I know nothing about what happened at the place you have mentioned, but think that even without trying to create any stink (which you think could be the end result) many potential visitors are discouraged from coming to Southampton by traffic jams and even thanks to Cllr. Jacqui Rament even complete grid locks.
Very true about the grid locks in Southampton, what they done on the Schuylkill River was that pile drive sheet piling down, turned what was tidal ground into a deep water dredge channel with docks and the river turned into a canal, because of this the water became slow moving and to deep to hold enough marine life, the water in the still areas went black though lack of oxgenated water, any boi matter just sinks to the bottom nd gives off methane gas as the bio matter slowly rots away,. they have been slowly infilling the channel making it shallower so the light can reach to the bottom, some of the old docks at the top end they been removing the piles so it can return to being tidal grounds again.

All this sounds and looks good at first, lets reclaim the land lets have marinas and docks let dredge the channel deeper etc etc, but they do not look at the long term effects to a tidal river and its marine life which is very important to a healthy river, to tell the truth over the matter is that we are still learning what effects will happen. over 90% of marine life is with in the first 50 feet of water and the majority of this is on tidal grounds, the deeper you go the less light there is and less marine life
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.[/p][/quote]Peter, I know nothing about what happened at the place you have mentioned, but think that even without trying to create any stink (which you think could be the end result) many potential visitors are discouraged from coming to Southampton by traffic jams and even thanks to Cllr. Jacqui Rament even complete grid locks.[/p][/quote]Very true about the grid locks in Southampton, what they done on the Schuylkill River was that pile drive sheet piling down, turned what was tidal ground into a deep water dredge channel with docks and the river turned into a canal, because of this the water became slow moving and to deep to hold enough marine life, the water in the still areas went black though lack of oxgenated water, any boi matter just sinks to the bottom nd gives off methane gas as the bio matter slowly rots away,. they have been slowly infilling the channel making it shallower so the light can reach to the bottom, some of the old docks at the top end they been removing the piles so it can return to being tidal grounds again. All this sounds and looks good at first, lets reclaim the land lets have marinas and docks let dredge the channel deeper etc etc, but they do not look at the long term effects to a tidal river and its marine life which is very important to a healthy river, to tell the truth over the matter is that we are still learning what effects will happen. over 90% of marine life is with in the first 50 feet of water and the majority of this is on tidal grounds, the deeper you go the less light there is and less marine life southy
  • Score: 3

12:43pm Fri 11 Jul 14

03alpe01 says...

If Southampton is taking ideas from Sydney in how to incorporate a top class waterfront then does that mean that we will have an iconic landmark that is known Worldwide? Or just more chain restaurants?
If Southampton is taking ideas from Sydney in how to incorporate a top class waterfront then does that mean that we will have an iconic landmark that is known Worldwide? Or just more chain restaurants? 03alpe01
  • Score: 2

12:48pm Fri 11 Jul 14

sotonboy84 says...

wibble70 wrote:
It is a crying shame that for a fascinating and interesting historical city, there is no coordinated and combined heritage feature next to the sea that would be a destination in itself for tourists and enthusiasts alike. The 'Sea City' and 'Solent Sky' museums are OK in their own limited way but will never attract the visitor numbers alone and particularly without access to the sea. If Southampton is serious about being a destination then it needs a combined larger-scale museum to house the exhibits of the above museums, close to the Spitfire Memorial, plus hidden gems such as the Calshot Lighthouse, trams, ww2 boats and so on, and include access to the water itself with access to board historical boats, flying boats etc. Sea City museum should then become an extension of the brilliant Art Gallery and Solent Sky knocked down to be offices/flats.

I see no reason why this and a tall viewing platform cannot be incorporated into the development alongside the big money-spinning office/flats/casino side of things.
There appears to be a fine line between what developers want and what the Council who represent the people of the city want and emphasis seems to be given to developers. The Council are scared of putting their foot down in case they scare developers away. The response I got from Councillor Noone when I raised the issue of the iron railings and grassed areas being removed from in front of the city walls in favour of giving Watermark Westquay more building space spoke volumes – "you must realise that the Council work hard in attracting investment into the city". The city needs investment, but the city's assets shouldn't desperately sold out in favour of attracting it. The result is developers make their millions and the city is left with a shinier version of what it had before i.e. shops and flats which are not a long term investment for the city's culture and economy.

The Council need to consult with residents of the city, learn what other cities do well and make a plan for the city and stick to it. Our assets should be utilised and these should be used as a basis for attracting tourists in. These plans should then be put out to tender then the Council choose developers that are best suited for these plans.

When I visit a town or city I do so based on the uniqueness of the place or because it offers something a little different. A new shopping centre, fast food restaurants and bars that every town and city in the country has is the last thing to attract me and I know many other people feel the same.
[quote][p][bold]wibble70[/bold] wrote: It is a crying shame that for a fascinating and interesting historical city, there is no coordinated and combined heritage feature next to the sea that would be a destination in itself for tourists and enthusiasts alike. The 'Sea City' and 'Solent Sky' museums are OK in their own limited way but will never attract the visitor numbers alone and particularly without access to the sea. If Southampton is serious about being a destination then it needs a combined larger-scale museum to house the exhibits of the above museums, close to the Spitfire Memorial, plus hidden gems such as the Calshot Lighthouse, trams, ww2 boats and so on, and include access to the water itself with access to board historical boats, flying boats etc. Sea City museum should then become an extension of the brilliant Art Gallery and Solent Sky knocked down to be offices/flats. I see no reason why this and a tall viewing platform cannot be incorporated into the development alongside the big money-spinning office/flats/casino side of things.[/p][/quote]There appears to be a fine line between what developers want and what the Council who represent the people of the city want and emphasis seems to be given to developers. The Council are scared of putting their foot down in case they scare developers away. The response I got from Councillor Noone when I raised the issue of the iron railings and grassed areas being removed from in front of the city walls in favour of giving Watermark Westquay more building space spoke volumes – "you must realise that the Council work hard in attracting investment into the city". The city needs investment, but the city's assets shouldn't desperately sold out in favour of attracting it. The result is developers make their millions and the city is left with a shinier version of what it had before i.e. shops and flats which are not a long term investment for the city's culture and economy. The Council need to consult with residents of the city, learn what other cities do well and make a plan for the city and stick to it. Our assets should be utilised and these should be used as a basis for attracting tourists in. These plans should then be put out to tender then the Council choose developers that are best suited for these plans. When I visit a town or city I do so based on the uniqueness of the place or because it offers something a little different. A new shopping centre, fast food restaurants and bars that every town and city in the country has is the last thing to attract me and I know many other people feel the same. sotonboy84
  • Score: 6

12:51pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
Southy
Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know.
The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US.
Perhaps they all wear gas masks!!
Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row.
Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles
[quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.[/p][/quote]Southy Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know. The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US. Perhaps they all wear gas masks!![/p][/quote]Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row. Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles southy
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

southy wrote:
phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
Southy
Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know.
The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US.
Perhaps they all wear gas masks!!
Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row.
Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles
Think about what happen to the River Thames Phil, you had a dead river down by Government houses but above Wansworth the river was in good condition, the river stench shut down Government for a while in victorian times, it was one of the things that spark the moment of cleaning up the river and that took decades, and only in the last 20 years have Salmon been running back up the Thames in a very small number.
Well they have learned the same lesson in Philladelphia and a clean up operation is in progress and returning some back to tidal grounds and they started to infill the deep channel.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.[/p][/quote]Southy Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know. The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US. Perhaps they all wear gas masks!![/p][/quote]Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row. Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles[/p][/quote]Think about what happen to the River Thames Phil, you had a dead river down by Government houses but above Wansworth the river was in good condition, the river stench shut down Government for a while in victorian times, it was one of the things that spark the moment of cleaning up the river and that took decades, and only in the last 20 years have Salmon been running back up the Thames in a very small number. Well they have learned the same lesson in Philladelphia and a clean up operation is in progress and returning some back to tidal grounds and they started to infill the deep channel. southy
  • Score: 0

1:04pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

03alpe01 wrote:
If Southampton is taking ideas from Sydney in how to incorporate a top class waterfront then does that mean that we will have an iconic landmark that is known Worldwide? Or just more chain restaurants?
Difference is that Sydney Harbour is a natural harbour and a hell of a lot bigger, Southampton is small and its dredge out harbour.
[quote][p][bold]03alpe01[/bold] wrote: If Southampton is taking ideas from Sydney in how to incorporate a top class waterfront then does that mean that we will have an iconic landmark that is known Worldwide? Or just more chain restaurants?[/p][/quote]Difference is that Sydney Harbour is a natural harbour and a hell of a lot bigger, Southampton is small and its dredge out harbour. southy
  • Score: 2

1:16pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Lone Ranger. says...

Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing
Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 7

1:20pm Fri 11 Jul 14

IronLady2010 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing
I had to chuckle at your comment :-)
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing[/p][/quote]I had to chuckle at your comment :-) IronLady2010
  • Score: 1

1:23pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing
**** it Lone you said the words
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing[/p][/quote]**** it Lone you said the words southy
  • Score: 1

1:25pm Fri 11 Jul 14

IronLady2010 says...

“Southampton deserves a destination waterfront that is vibrant, animated, and pleasant"

I'm in love with statement!

Southampton does deserve this, so let's see it happen. I'm all for creating a vibrant City.

Good luck in making this happen and I look forward to the work starting!
“Southampton deserves a destination waterfront that is vibrant, animated, and pleasant" I'm in love with statement! Southampton does deserve this, so let's see it happen. I'm all for creating a vibrant City. Good luck in making this happen and I look forward to the work starting! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

2:16pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day
I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day southy
  • Score: 5

2:25pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Lone Ranger. says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing
I had to chuckle at your comment :-)
I thought that you chuckled at all of my posts !!
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing[/p][/quote]I had to chuckle at your comment :-)[/p][/quote]I thought that you chuckled at all of my posts !! Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

2:40pm Fri 11 Jul 14

IronLady2010 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing
I had to chuckle at your comment :-)
I thought that you chuckled at all of my posts !!
I try lol x
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing[/p][/quote]I had to chuckle at your comment :-)[/p][/quote]I thought that you chuckled at all of my posts !![/p][/quote]I try lol x IronLady2010
  • Score: 1

2:57pm Fri 11 Jul 14

phil maccavity says...

southy wrote:
southy wrote:
phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
Southy
Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know.
The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US.
Perhaps they all wear gas masks!!
Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row.
Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles
Think about what happen to the River Thames Phil, you had a dead river down by Government houses but above Wansworth the river was in good condition, the river stench shut down Government for a while in victorian times, it was one of the things that spark the moment of cleaning up the river and that took decades, and only in the last 20 years have Salmon been running back up the Thames in a very small number.
Well they have learned the same lesson in Philladelphia and a clean up operation is in progress and returning some back to tidal grounds and they started to infill the deep channel.
The reason the Thames was in such a bad condition in the centre of London in Victorian times was due to the river being used as a dumping ground for everyones waste and this is why Balgazette was commissioned to build the Embankment and sewerage system which had a by product as it narrowed the river and allowed a quicker flow.
However the regular use of the river for shipping and the effects of the WW2 bombing continued to make the river unsuitable for some marine life.
Scottish salmon were reintroduced in the mid 70's but have largely died off now, it is suggested ,due to the unsuitablity of the breeding stock.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.[/p][/quote]Southy Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know. The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US. Perhaps they all wear gas masks!![/p][/quote]Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row. Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles[/p][/quote]Think about what happen to the River Thames Phil, you had a dead river down by Government houses but above Wansworth the river was in good condition, the river stench shut down Government for a while in victorian times, it was one of the things that spark the moment of cleaning up the river and that took decades, and only in the last 20 years have Salmon been running back up the Thames in a very small number. Well they have learned the same lesson in Philladelphia and a clean up operation is in progress and returning some back to tidal grounds and they started to infill the deep channel.[/p][/quote]The reason the Thames was in such a bad condition in the centre of London in Victorian times was due to the river being used as a dumping ground for everyones waste and this is why Balgazette was commissioned to build the Embankment and sewerage system which had a by product as it narrowed the river and allowed a quicker flow. However the regular use of the river for shipping and the effects of the WW2 bombing continued to make the river unsuitable for some marine life. Scottish salmon were reintroduced in the mid 70's but have largely died off now, it is suggested ,due to the unsuitablity of the breeding stock. phil maccavity
  • Score: 1

2:59pm Fri 11 Jul 14

phil maccavity says...

southy wrote:
I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day
Why open 24hrs?
The previous Pier wasn't
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day[/p][/quote]Why open 24hrs? The previous Pier wasn't phil maccavity
  • Score: 1

3:09pm Fri 11 Jul 14

03alpe01 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing
Chin up- the article says about 2030. You never know due to global warming and climate change we might have an iceage and the whole of Southampton would end up as an ice rink. We all know how much you'd love that ;)
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: Four and a half hours into this topic and no-one has mentioned a frigging ice rink .......... Not even the usual suspects ...... How refreshing[/p][/quote]Chin up- the article says about 2030. You never know due to global warming and climate change we might have an iceage and the whole of Southampton would end up as an ice rink. We all know how much you'd love that ;) 03alpe01
  • Score: 2

4:26pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
southy wrote:
phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span.
There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.
Southy
Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know.
The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US.
Perhaps they all wear gas masks!!
Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row.
Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles
Think about what happen to the River Thames Phil, you had a dead river down by Government houses but above Wansworth the river was in good condition, the river stench shut down Government for a while in victorian times, it was one of the things that spark the moment of cleaning up the river and that took decades, and only in the last 20 years have Salmon been running back up the Thames in a very small number.
Well they have learned the same lesson in Philladelphia and a clean up operation is in progress and returning some back to tidal grounds and they started to infill the deep channel.
The reason the Thames was in such a bad condition in the centre of London in Victorian times was due to the river being used as a dumping ground for everyones waste and this is why Balgazette was commissioned to build the Embankment and sewerage system which had a by product as it narrowed the river and allowed a quicker flow.
However the regular use of the river for shipping and the effects of the WW2 bombing continued to make the river unsuitable for some marine life.
Scottish salmon were reintroduced in the mid 70's but have largely died off now, it is suggested ,due to the unsuitablity of the breeding stock.
Yes but your missing the point, a river can only take so much man made stuff done to it, a healthy tidal part of a river need those tidal banks, its what keeps it clean and healthy. Those Scottish Salmon never returned to spawn most smolts died passing though the polituted area and those smolts that did pass though returned to the river as far as the poluted area drop there eggs and returned they woud not pass though the polution area to get to the spawning beds. But both Salmon and Sea Trout have started to go pass the erea that is still poluted but they are not scottish salmon they more likely are from the river medway, Grayling is now being watch out for they have yet to return to a river, On the Test the Grayling have all ready disapeared, but this might off been what the EA and waterbaliff action done or it could be the first warning of our river health state.
What Balgazette dont by narrowing the river was a good isea at the time it done what it was ment to be done but it only push the polution down river more, A unfore seen problem was with the narrowing of the river the river naturally cut deeper channel and the result of this no marine life could survive the deeper part of the channel its void of weed apart from the very edges of the river, WWII bombing done little damage any that was done was soon recovered as other major rivers that was bomb like the Test and Tamar both recovered very quickly
[quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What works for other ports only works for them if you try to copy some thing then it will be a flop all it will be is a clone and clones have shorter life span. There loads of ports and each with its own style, if you want to see some thing like they trying to plan for Southampton then all you need to do is go to Philadelphia on the Schuylkill River where they have done away with all the tidal grounds, the river is dead and reaks to high heaven, Is this what you want for Southampton a dead smelly river that will drive more people way than it would draw them in.[/p][/quote]Southy Suggest you contact the relevant authorities in Philladelphia and explain what you know. The 128 mile long Schuylkill River is described as..' very popular with water sports enthusiasts. The Dad Vail Regatta, an amateur rowing event is held annually on the river near Boathouse Row, as is the BAYADA Home Health Care Regatta, attracting disabled racers from all over the US. Perhaps they all wear gas masks!![/p][/quote]Yes it is above the tidal part of the river Phil where the water is shallowish and still in a natrual state, and they have some wonderful lakes on the river and there is a 10 mile walk from the park going up river in west Philladelphia the location of Boathouse Row. Rivers do tend to go some length and can go on for 100's of miles[/p][/quote]Think about what happen to the River Thames Phil, you had a dead river down by Government houses but above Wansworth the river was in good condition, the river stench shut down Government for a while in victorian times, it was one of the things that spark the moment of cleaning up the river and that took decades, and only in the last 20 years have Salmon been running back up the Thames in a very small number. Well they have learned the same lesson in Philladelphia and a clean up operation is in progress and returning some back to tidal grounds and they started to infill the deep channel.[/p][/quote]The reason the Thames was in such a bad condition in the centre of London in Victorian times was due to the river being used as a dumping ground for everyones waste and this is why Balgazette was commissioned to build the Embankment and sewerage system which had a by product as it narrowed the river and allowed a quicker flow. However the regular use of the river for shipping and the effects of the WW2 bombing continued to make the river unsuitable for some marine life. Scottish salmon were reintroduced in the mid 70's but have largely died off now, it is suggested ,due to the unsuitablity of the breeding stock.[/p][/quote]Yes but your missing the point, a river can only take so much man made stuff done to it, a healthy tidal part of a river need those tidal banks, its what keeps it clean and healthy. Those Scottish Salmon never returned to spawn most smolts died passing though the polituted area and those smolts that did pass though returned to the river as far as the poluted area drop there eggs and returned they woud not pass though the polution area to get to the spawning beds. But both Salmon and Sea Trout have started to go pass the erea that is still poluted but they are not scottish salmon they more likely are from the river medway, Grayling is now being watch out for they have yet to return to a river, On the Test the Grayling have all ready disapeared, but this might off been what the EA and waterbaliff action done or it could be the first warning of our river health state. What Balgazette dont by narrowing the river was a good isea at the time it done what it was ment to be done but it only push the polution down river more, A unfore seen problem was with the narrowing of the river the river naturally cut deeper channel and the result of this no marine life could survive the deeper part of the channel its void of weed apart from the very edges of the river, WWII bombing done little damage any that was done was soon recovered as other major rivers that was bomb like the Test and Tamar both recovered very quickly southy
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Fri 11 Jul 14

southy says...

phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day
Why open 24hrs?
The previous Pier wasn't
True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night
[quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day[/p][/quote]Why open 24hrs? The previous Pier wasn't[/p][/quote]True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night southy
  • Score: 0

4:48pm Fri 11 Jul 14

ramondscott says...

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  • Score: -2

6:00pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Berkshire Saint says...

Please, please, please I hope Southampton gets a quality development it deserves. Too often big ideas come and go and invariably what gets delivered is a cheaper watered down version of the vision. There are too many examples of bad planning an architecture in the city and I hope this delivers. It will come at a cost but it will be worth it.
Please, please, please I hope Southampton gets a quality development it deserves. Too often big ideas come and go and invariably what gets delivered is a cheaper watered down version of the vision. There are too many examples of bad planning an architecture in the city and I hope this delivers. It will come at a cost but it will be worth it. Berkshire Saint
  • Score: 0

6:53pm Fri 11 Jul 14

loosehead says...

I remember when Ocean Village first opened I went to a Jazz week at the Delta Belle use to sit out the front & look over the marina.
then If hungry would go out & buy a pizza now no Delta Belle & I don't know what's actually there but remember Flats being built as the developer said they needed them to cover costs?
This could have been a great venue & it was good for the older generations (over 30) we also had some venues at Admirals quay are they still there?
Will the Pier be just a money making flat/apartment blocks project or something of pleasure for all the city?
With an expanded Mayflower Park can this be used as a venue for outdoor concerts of music of all types with the water as a backdrop?
I remember when Ocean Village first opened I went to a Jazz week at the Delta Belle use to sit out the front & look over the marina. then If hungry would go out & buy a pizza now no Delta Belle & I don't know what's actually there but remember Flats being built as the developer said they needed them to cover costs? This could have been a great venue & it was good for the older generations (over 30) we also had some venues at Admirals quay are they still there? Will the Pier be just a money making flat/apartment blocks project or something of pleasure for all the city? With an expanded Mayflower Park can this be used as a venue for outdoor concerts of music of all types with the water as a backdrop? loosehead
  • Score: -1

11:46pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Dan Soton says...

,,,

Blurred Waterfront Vision


Cllr's Simon Letts said... "I’m really excited by the proposals..

Excited, I'm excited.. Sydney, Darling Harbour Apartments can go for over £2 million..

http://smh.domain.co
m.au/real-estate-new
s/darling-square-sel
ls-out-off-the-plan-
20140621-zsha6.html


Yeah eye watering in many ways...

Oxbow Carbon Sulphur one of America's most hated polluters is setting up home less than a 600m from the City's newest apartments, hotels and shops, both eye watering and nose running..

Construction of the New Sulphur Plant is due to start in September... rotten sulphur smells could be wafting around the City's waterfront by the end of next year ?.

http://www.oxbowsout
hampton.co.uk/


Cllr's Letts get your skates on or kiss goodbye those exciting Darling Harbour Apartments...


,,,
,,, Blurred Waterfront Vision Cllr's Simon Letts said... "I’m really excited by the proposals.. Excited, I'm excited.. Sydney, Darling Harbour Apartments can go for over £2 million.. http://smh.domain.co m.au/real-estate-new s/darling-square-sel ls-out-off-the-plan- 20140621-zsha6.html Yeah eye watering in many ways... Oxbow Carbon Sulphur one of America's most hated polluters is setting up home less than a 600m from the City's newest apartments, hotels and shops, both eye watering and nose running.. Construction of the New Sulphur Plant is due to start in September... rotten sulphur smells could be wafting around the City's waterfront by the end of next year ?. http://www.oxbowsout hampton.co.uk/ Cllr's Letts get your skates on or kiss goodbye those exciting Darling Harbour Apartments... ,,, Dan Soton
  • Score: 1

12:20pm Sat 12 Jul 14

southy says...

southy wrote:
mrtein wrote:
Note there are already application notices up in mayflower park concerning the application for a super casino. Anybody feel the city needs another casino?

Remember the reality will look nothing like the sexy drawings and models.

I suspect the waterside parking that many elderly and disabled people use and enjoy in mayflower will be go.

And please how are al the extra cars going to move around. Our city ois a peninsula. West Quay, Ikea, St marys, the cryuise ships, the new Bowling alley devleopment, this devleopment. Roads are gridlocked already.

A park and ride maybe? better public transport links. ????
Thanks for the info on the application notices at Mayflower park, are they Public notices applications do you know.
Ok I have read and check those notice even took photograths, they are not Public Notices of any kind, they are just notices for some one intentions that as been put forward to see what the reaction is like
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrtein[/bold] wrote: Note there are already application notices up in mayflower park concerning the application for a super casino. Anybody feel the city needs another casino? Remember the reality will look nothing like the sexy drawings and models. I suspect the waterside parking that many elderly and disabled people use and enjoy in mayflower will be go. And please how are al the extra cars going to move around. Our city ois a peninsula. West Quay, Ikea, St marys, the cryuise ships, the new Bowling alley devleopment, this devleopment. Roads are gridlocked already. A park and ride maybe? better public transport links. ????[/p][/quote]Thanks for the info on the application notices at Mayflower park, are they Public notices applications do you know.[/p][/quote]Ok I have read and check those notice even took photograths, they are not Public Notices of any kind, they are just notices for some one intentions that as been put forward to see what the reaction is like southy
  • Score: 0

12:49pm Sat 12 Jul 14

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
I remember when Ocean Village first opened I went to a Jazz week at the Delta Belle use to sit out the front & look over the marina.
then If hungry would go out & buy a pizza now no Delta Belle & I don't know what's actually there but remember Flats being built as the developer said they needed them to cover costs?
This could have been a great venue & it was good for the older generations (over 30) we also had some venues at Admirals quay are they still there?
Will the Pier be just a money making flat/apartment blocks project or something of pleasure for all the city?
With an expanded Mayflower Park can this be used as a venue for outdoor concerts of music of all types with the water as a backdrop?
Best thing to do with Mayflower park and Royal pier is to leave the park as it is, and the pier rebuild it and have it open 24 hours a day, you could even make so that the Jubilee Trust Tall Ships could be moored on the end of the pier.
If I had the money I would buy Royal Pier and rebuild it, and then give it to the people of Southampton.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I remember when Ocean Village first opened I went to a Jazz week at the Delta Belle use to sit out the front & look over the marina. then If hungry would go out & buy a pizza now no Delta Belle & I don't know what's actually there but remember Flats being built as the developer said they needed them to cover costs? This could have been a great venue & it was good for the older generations (over 30) we also had some venues at Admirals quay are they still there? Will the Pier be just a money making flat/apartment blocks project or something of pleasure for all the city? With an expanded Mayflower Park can this be used as a venue for outdoor concerts of music of all types with the water as a backdrop?[/p][/quote]Best thing to do with Mayflower park and Royal pier is to leave the park as it is, and the pier rebuild it and have it open 24 hours a day, you could even make so that the Jubilee Trust Tall Ships could be moored on the end of the pier. If I had the money I would buy Royal Pier and rebuild it, and then give it to the people of Southampton. southy
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Sun 13 Jul 14

Linesman says...

Yawner wrote:
Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront
It is with some regret that I must agree with Yawner.
[quote][p][bold]Yawner[/bold] wrote: Sydney??? You only have to go down to Portsmouth to see a successful waterfront[/p][/quote]It is with some regret that I must agree with Yawner. Linesman
  • Score: 0

12:52pm Mon 14 Jul 14

southy says...

southy wrote:
phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day
Why open 24hrs?
The previous Pier wasn't
True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night
Phil done some checking it was open to the public 24 hours a day from the day it open right up to the biginning of WWII, when it was closed of from the public after the war is when it was only open during day time for the public, The ticket office was only for boarding the steamers that use to travel from pier to pier. there was 2 side gates for the general public to use.

You can see what will happen in the future after if this built, the boat show will go on for a few more years after as more and more people stop traveling from up north to southampton boat show because it will be no different than the dry boat show at Earls Court and other shows that are closer to home, the boat show will come to an end and then the developers will move in on the reclaim land and build and stop public excess.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day[/p][/quote]Why open 24hrs? The previous Pier wasn't[/p][/quote]True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night[/p][/quote]Phil done some checking it was open to the public 24 hours a day from the day it open right up to the biginning of WWII, when it was closed of from the public after the war is when it was only open during day time for the public, The ticket office was only for boarding the steamers that use to travel from pier to pier. there was 2 side gates for the general public to use. You can see what will happen in the future after if this built, the boat show will go on for a few more years after as more and more people stop traveling from up north to southampton boat show because it will be no different than the dry boat show at Earls Court and other shows that are closer to home, the boat show will come to an end and then the developers will move in on the reclaim land and build and stop public excess. southy
  • Score: 0

6:03pm Mon 14 Jul 14

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
southy wrote:
phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day
Why open 24hrs?
The previous Pier wasn't
True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night
Phil done some checking it was open to the public 24 hours a day from the day it open right up to the biginning of WWII, when it was closed of from the public after the war is when it was only open during day time for the public, The ticket office was only for boarding the steamers that use to travel from pier to pier. there was 2 side gates for the general public to use.

You can see what will happen in the future after if this built, the boat show will go on for a few more years after as more and more people stop traveling from up north to southampton boat show because it will be no different than the dry boat show at Earls Court and other shows that are closer to home, the boat show will come to an end and then the developers will move in on the reclaim land and build and stop public excess.
Really so it was shut at night was it Southy?
How did I go dancing at the Royal pier at night if it was shut?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day[/p][/quote]Why open 24hrs? The previous Pier wasn't[/p][/quote]True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night[/p][/quote]Phil done some checking it was open to the public 24 hours a day from the day it open right up to the biginning of WWII, when it was closed of from the public after the war is when it was only open during day time for the public, The ticket office was only for boarding the steamers that use to travel from pier to pier. there was 2 side gates for the general public to use. You can see what will happen in the future after if this built, the boat show will go on for a few more years after as more and more people stop traveling from up north to southampton boat show because it will be no different than the dry boat show at Earls Court and other shows that are closer to home, the boat show will come to an end and then the developers will move in on the reclaim land and build and stop public excess.[/p][/quote]Really so it was shut at night was it Southy? How did I go dancing at the Royal pier at night if it was shut? loosehead
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Mon 14 Jul 14

loosehead says...

Mecca owned the ballrooms but bough the Top Rank suite then the dancing on the pier stopped & the pier itself was allowed to deteriorate,then Mecca sold the Top Rank Suite to housing developers.
Mecca owned the ballrooms but bough the Top Rank suite then the dancing on the pier stopped & the pier itself was allowed to deteriorate,then Mecca sold the Top Rank Suite to housing developers. loosehead
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Tue 15 Jul 14

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
southy wrote:
phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day
Why open 24hrs?
The previous Pier wasn't
True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night
Phil done some checking it was open to the public 24 hours a day from the day it open right up to the biginning of WWII, when it was closed of from the public after the war is when it was only open during day time for the public, The ticket office was only for boarding the steamers that use to travel from pier to pier. there was 2 side gates for the general public to use.

You can see what will happen in the future after if this built, the boat show will go on for a few more years after as more and more people stop traveling from up north to southampton boat show because it will be no different than the dry boat show at Earls Court and other shows that are closer to home, the boat show will come to an end and then the developers will move in on the reclaim land and build and stop public excess.
Really so it was shut at night was it Southy?
How did I go dancing at the Royal pier at night if it was shut?
You went though the Ticket office Loose and paid to go dancing in the hall, it was shut for those that wanted to walk pier after a certain hour, and at middnight it was totally close unless there was some thing speical going on.
But before WWII it was open to the public 24 hours a day.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I think like most others in Southampton and that is to rebuild Royal Pier and make open to the public 24 hours a day[/p][/quote]Why open 24hrs? The previous Pier wasn't[/p][/quote]True it was not for most people, but it should of been as it was when when it first open, but keep it open so people can fish of there at night[/p][/quote]Phil done some checking it was open to the public 24 hours a day from the day it open right up to the biginning of WWII, when it was closed of from the public after the war is when it was only open during day time for the public, The ticket office was only for boarding the steamers that use to travel from pier to pier. there was 2 side gates for the general public to use. You can see what will happen in the future after if this built, the boat show will go on for a few more years after as more and more people stop traveling from up north to southampton boat show because it will be no different than the dry boat show at Earls Court and other shows that are closer to home, the boat show will come to an end and then the developers will move in on the reclaim land and build and stop public excess.[/p][/quote]Really so it was shut at night was it Southy? How did I go dancing at the Royal pier at night if it was shut?[/p][/quote]You went though the Ticket office Loose and paid to go dancing in the hall, it was shut for those that wanted to walk pier after a certain hour, and at middnight it was totally close unless there was some thing speical going on. But before WWII it was open to the public 24 hours a day. southy
  • Score: 0
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