LiveHunt for missing Ashya taken from hospital

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Digital Editor

This live event has finished

Summary

  • Ashya King, 5 taken from Southampton General Hospital by parents
  • They 'did not have consent' to do so from hospital staff
  • Aysha suffering from brain tumour
  • Family believed to be in France after catching ferry to Cherbourg

6:25pm

Chief Const Shead continued: "Our message remains the same: please help us find him. Please visit the Hampshire Police website or Hampshire Constabulary Facebook page and share the appeal and the photos of Ashya, his mum and dad Brett and Naghmeh, and the car that they were travelling in when they left for Cherbourg.

"We have had a good response to widespread media coverage, with people who know the King family calling in. 
"So far, we have had one reported sighting of the family, which was on the ferry to France yesterday.

"There have been widespread media alerts across Europe, focussing on countries where the Kings had a known association; and in particular, we continue to work closely with French authorities.

"The last positive information we had placed them in France, but by now, we cannot be certain they have not moved on.  Our enquiries are totally focussed on establishing where they are now.  There is still time to find Ashya and make sure he gets the medical help he urgently needs, but we need the public’s help to do this.

"The registration of the grey people carrier that the King family are travelling in is KP60 HWK.

"If you see it, if you think you may have seen Brett, Naghmeh, Ashya and the six other children, please call us now on +441962 841534 or dial the European emergency number on 112 as soon as possible."

5:52pm

Police say concerns for Ashya are growing with each hour.

Hampshire Constabulary have also confirmed that medical experts have said the battery life on the machine administering his food is likely to have expired now.

Officers also said they have had one reported sighting of the King family, on the ferry to Cherbourg yesterday.

Assistant Chief Constable Chris Shead said: "Ashya is still missing, and with each hour that passes our concern for him grows.

"Within the last hour, we have been told by medical experts that the battery life on the machine that administers his food is now likely to have expired. We don’t know whether the King family have any spares, the knowledge, or any way of recharging the battery.  If they don’t, without properly administered food, Ashya’s condition will deteriorate very quickly.”

5:30pm

Ashya’s parents, Brett and Nagehmeh, have been confirmed as followers of the Jehovah’s Witnesses movement.

A spokesperson for the Office of Public Information for Jehovah's Witnesses said: "We can confirm that the parents of Ashya King are Jehovah's Witnesses. However, we are not aware of the facts of the case nor the reasons for the family's medical choices, which are personal decisions.

"There is absolutely no indication, as far as we are aware, that their decision is in any way motivated by any religious convictions. Jehovah's Witnesses are encouraged to seek the best medical treatment for themselves and their children."

5:29pm

It is understood that the battery in Ashya’s medical feeding equipment will have run out by now.

The five-year-old has still not been found, and Hampshire Constabulary are issuing appeals in Spanish, Italian and German in a bid to find him.

A spokesman said there is nothing to suggest he and his family are in those countries, but the force is nevertheless widening its appeal.

5:08pm

Daily Echo:

Interpol has issued an alert to find Ashya to 190 countries around the globe.

The international crime agency has issued its yellow notice alert at the request of authorities in the UK.

The agency is treating the case as a “high priority” and urging anyone with information to contact Hampshire Constabulary on 01962 841 534.

4:41pm

The International Criminal Police Organisation – Interpol – is also assisting in the search for Ashya.

The organisation, which is based in Lyon and has hundreds of staff across the world, has issued an appeal to find the five-year-old on its missing persons list.

3:50pm

3:28pm

The devastated grandmother of little Ashya King today urged his parents to 'bring him back'.

Patricia King, Brett King's mother, said her grandson had recently been showing signs of improvement.

His health had picked up and he was even beginning to smile and move his limbs, she said at her home in Portsmouth.

And she revealed the youngster had first gone in for treatment on the cancer a month ago after doctors originally diagnosed his illness as arthritis.

Tearful Patricia, wearing a black cardigan, navy jeans and blue sandals, said: "All I would say to Brett is please, bring him back.

2:19pm

In a statement to the Daily Echo, the hospital described how clinical and security staff made the decision to call Hampshire police last night when the five-year-old boy failed to reappear on the ward with his parents.

They refused to be drawn further on the matter, saying further enquiries should now be directed to police who are leading an international search for the seriously ill boy who has been taken to France by his parents.

The statement read: “Ashya has a serious condition that requires constant medical supervision and treatment. “Following his removal from hospital by his parents yesterday, clinical and security staff referred the incident to Hampshire police.

“We continue to work closely with them to support the search and investigation and have provided a comprehensive detailed medical report on Ashya to ensure any hospital he is taken to can provide the care he requires immediately.

“Ashya was a long term patient who was permitted to leave the ward under the supervision of his parents as part of his ongoing rehabilitation.

“When the length of time he had been absent became a cause of concern to staff yesterday afternoon they contacted police after a search of the site and attempts to contact the family were unsuccessful.”

1:39pm

"Anyone with information which may help us locate Ashya King should contact Hampshire Constabulary as soon as possible on 101 quoting Operation Aquilion.

"From outside the UK, please call us on 0044 1962 841534.

"In France, please call the emergency 112 number."

1:27pm

Mr Shead said the family's religious beliefs are ''irrelevant'' at this point in the investigation.

1:26pm

Appealing directly to the family, Mr Shead said: ''Our message to you is 'please take Ashya to the nearest hospital immediately'.

 ''We understand this must be an awful time for you but the most important thing is to get the proper medical care for Ashya.

 ''Please work with us to provide Ashya that care.''

 Mr Shead said police were keeping ''an open mind'' about the parents' motive for taking their son from hospital.

 ''It's irrelevant at this point in time,'' he said. ''The most important thing is to actually locate Ashya. There is a five-year-old's life at stake here.''

1:25pm

Police have said their ''total focus'' is in finding Ashya and his parents are not under criminal investigation at this time.

 Brittany Ferries confirmed the family had travelled on board its cross-Channel ferry and the company was assisting Hampshire Police with its inquiries.

 A spokesman said the family had declared they were travelling with a child with ''special medical needs'' at the time of booking.

 

12:52pm

Police cars outside Southampton General Hospital this morning:

Daily Echo:

12:41pm

Anyone with information which may help locate Ashya King should contact Hampshire Constabulary as soon as possible on 101 quoting Operation Aquilion.

12:33pm

Daily Echo: Assistant chief constable Chris Shead

 

12:14pm

Assistant chief constable Chris Shead said: "There is no indication he was unhooked from any equipment.

"He has certainly been in hospital for the last week but whether he was allowed to leave the hospital is a question for the hospital.

"It is our dearest hope that his parents will hear this appeal and recognise the gravity and will take him to the nearest hospital."

12:12pm

To recap the major events so far:

  • Ashya King was taken from Southampton General Hospital by his parents at 2.15pm yesterday.
  • By 4pm, they were on a ferry from Portsmouth to Cherbourg.
  • The hospital reported the incident to Hampshire Constabulary at 8.35pm.
  • At that time, a search was immediately launched.
  • The information was made public at 7.20am this morning.

12:09pm

This is a picture from Hampshire Constabulary of Ashya's dad, Brett King.

Daily Echo:

12:04pm

This is a photo of Ashya's mother, Naghemeh King.

Daily Echo:

12:02pm

Southampton General Hospital have not commented on the situation yet, but may release a statement later today.

Daily Echo:

11:59am

The press conference has now concluded.

11:58am

Ashya had been in hospital for at least at week. It is not known if he had been previously allowed out beyond the hospital doors.

11:56am

One of the major concerns is that the batteries of Ashya's feeding machine are likely to run out of power at any moment.

11:56am

Daily Echo:

The family are not previously known to police and have no criminal history. "They are a normal family".

11:54am

The family must take Ashya to the nearest hospital to them as soon as possible, it has been added.

11:54am

Hampshire Constabulary are liasing with officers in France and neighbouring countries.

11:53am

Ashya is described as a 'five-year-old boy whose life is at stake'.

11:53am

Officers are keeping an open mind as to the motives of the parents for taking the child from the hospital.

They are not aware of any previous attempts to try and take him.
 

11:52am

There is a 'desperate need' to make sure the boy gets the medical care he needs.

11:51am

Southampton General Hospital notified Hampshire Constabulary at 8.35pm last night that Ashya King has gone missing from the hospital.

11:50am

Daily Echo:

The conference has now begun and police are outlining the details of the case, which we have reported this morning.

11:44am

We're still waiting for the press conference - which is being held in Netley - to begin.

11:33am

This is one of the videos upload by Ashya's older brother, Naveed, about his sibling's time in hospital.

11:31am

The family were travelling in a grey Hyundai I800 Style CRDI, registration KP60 HWK.

Daily Echo:

11:26am

A CCTV image released by police of Brett King wheeling young Ashya King out of Southampton General Hospital.

Daily Echo:

11:21am

Detective Superintendent Dick Pearson of Hampshire Major Investigation team said: “If we do not locate Ashya today there are serious concerns for his life. He is receiving constant medical care within the UK due to recent surgery and ongoing medical issues.

"Without this specialist 24 hour care Ashya is at risk of additional health complications which place him at substantial risk.

“He needs to be taken to a medical facility for his urgent health requirements as soon as he is located.

“We have also launched a social media appeal and would urge everyone to share this appeal, particularly if you have friends and relatives in France and bordering countries.”

11:20am

Ashya cannot communicate verbally and is immobile and is likely to be in a wheelchair or buggy.

Police believe if he is not found today there are serious concerns for his life due to his illness.

He was receiving 24-hour medical care in Hampshire after undergoing surgery recently as well as other ongoing medical issues.

11:20am

Police are about to give a public briefing about their search for the family. It is due to start in 10 minutes.

11:19am

He was taken by his parents Brett King, 51, and Naghemeh King, 45, from Southampton General Hospital against doctors' wishes at around 2pm on Thursday, August 28 and they were seen boarding a continental ferry from Portsmouth to Cherbourg with Ashya and his six siblings, which arrived at 8pm last night.

11:18am

Daily Echo:

Aysha King

11:18am

A major police search is underway this morning after a five-year-old boy suffering from a brain tumour was snatched from Southampton General Hospital.

Police are desperately trying to track Ashya King, believed to be in France, over serious concerns his life may be at risk.

Comments (17)

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12:31pm Fri 29 Aug 14

jazzi says...

Who gives you the right to force treatment on an innocent. I do not know the circumstances , but perhaps they want him to be happy in his last days and not wired up like a lab rat, just sayin !!!
Who gives you the right to force treatment on an innocent. I do not know the circumstances , but perhaps they want him to be happy in his last days and not wired up like a lab rat, just sayin !!! jazzi
  • Score: -4

12:40pm Fri 29 Aug 14

IronLady2010 says...

According to other news sources the parents are Jehovah’s Witnesses, this kind of says it all.

Let's hope this poorly child is found soon and can have the treatment he deserves.

Good luck xx
According to other news sources the parents are Jehovah’s Witnesses, this kind of says it all. Let's hope this poorly child is found soon and can have the treatment he deserves. Good luck xx IronLady2010
  • Score: -12

12:53pm Fri 29 Aug 14

Donald2000 says...

This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this. Donald2000
  • Score: 8

1:07pm Fri 29 Aug 14

sotonboy84 says...

So the gist of this 'breaking headline' seems to be that the parents have their photographs branded across the Echo and are being treated like criminals because they took their child from hospital. The police say he wasn't unhooked from any equipment and say they do not know if the child was allowed to leave hospital.

Journalism in this country is scandalous. Anything to sell a story. Anybody remember the story of Joanna Yates who was murdered in Bristol? Her landlord was a suspect and had his life destroyed by the media who portrayed him as guilty, until they found the real killer.

There needs to be far more control and measures over how news is reported because journalists seem to be able to report however they like, regardless of the circumstances.
So the gist of this 'breaking headline' seems to be that the parents have their photographs branded across the Echo and are being treated like criminals because they took their child from hospital. The police say he wasn't unhooked from any equipment and say they do not know if the child was allowed to leave hospital. Journalism in this country is scandalous. Anything to sell a story. Anybody remember the story of Joanna Yates who was murdered in Bristol? Her landlord was a suspect and had his life destroyed by the media who portrayed him as guilty, until they found the real killer. There needs to be far more control and measures over how news is reported because journalists seem to be able to report however they like, regardless of the circumstances. sotonboy84
  • Score: 20

1:11pm Fri 29 Aug 14

sotonboy84 says...

Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
[quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals. sotonboy84
  • Score: 12

1:13pm Fri 29 Aug 14

vag says...

Poor little sod. Born to exceptionally poor quality parents. He will be dead in a few hours, without quality medical care. I hope the parents can live with that.
Poor little sod. Born to exceptionally poor quality parents. He will be dead in a few hours, without quality medical care. I hope the parents can live with that. vag
  • Score: -18

1:15pm Fri 29 Aug 14

Brite Spark says...

maybe they've taken him to Lourdes.
maybe they've taken him to Lourdes. Brite Spark
  • Score: -1

1:18pm Fri 29 Aug 14

IronLady2010 says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
I'm not sure that's the case.

When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them?

In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure that's the case. When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them? In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar? IronLady2010
  • Score: -7

3:41pm Fri 29 Aug 14

owenmahamilton says...

If he does pass away I hope the hospital is found partially responsible for waiting so long before deciding to call the police.
If he does pass away I hope the hospital is found partially responsible for waiting so long before deciding to call the police. owenmahamilton
  • Score: -12

4:02pm Fri 29 Aug 14

sotonboy84 says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
I'm not sure that's the case.

When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them?

In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?
There's no such thing as a critical list.

You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected.

You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure that's the case. When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them? In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?[/p][/quote]There's no such thing as a critical list. You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected. You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient. sotonboy84
  • Score: 7

8:14pm Fri 29 Aug 14

spud_124 says...

I have just read the story in the echo that a young boy has been snached from southampton g/h. I feel that all patients should have a security tag on their wrist/leg. As all clothe shops has, as you go through the doors a alarm bell rings .I know it would cost, but its a small price to pay for a loved one. help find this young boy.
I have just read the story in the echo that a young boy has been snached from southampton g/h. I feel that all patients should have a security tag on their wrist/leg. As all clothe shops has, as you go through the doors a alarm bell rings .I know it would cost, but its a small price to pay for a loved one. help find this young boy. spud_124
  • Score: -5

9:35pm Fri 29 Aug 14

Graeme Harrison says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
I'm not sure that's the case.

When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them?

In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?
There's no such thing as a critical list.

You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected.

You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.
Except, of course, if you're not competent to make decisions about your medical treatment, the Court of Protection can authorise doctors to give you treatment even if you've refused it. In the case of minors, the High Court can authorise treatment against the wishes of parents if it's in the minor's interests to have the treatment.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure that's the case. When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them? In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?[/p][/quote]There's no such thing as a critical list. You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected. You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.[/p][/quote]Except, of course, if you're not competent to make decisions about your medical treatment, the Court of Protection can authorise doctors to give you treatment even if you've refused it. In the case of minors, the High Court can authorise treatment against the wishes of parents if it's in the minor's interests to have the treatment. Graeme Harrison
  • Score: 0

9:56pm Fri 29 Aug 14

BeyondImagination says...

owenmahamilton wrote:
If he does pass away I hope the hospital is found partially responsible for waiting so long before deciding to call the police.
Hospitals are not prisons. In this case the parents had permission to take him off site.

I wish the boy and his family well.
[quote][p][bold]owenmahamilton[/bold] wrote: If he does pass away I hope the hospital is found partially responsible for waiting so long before deciding to call the police.[/p][/quote]Hospitals are not prisons. In this case the parents had permission to take him off site. I wish the boy and his family well. BeyondImagination
  • Score: 4

9:57pm Fri 29 Aug 14

sotonboy84 says...

Graeme Harrison wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
I'm not sure that's the case.

When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them?

In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?
There's no such thing as a critical list.

You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected.

You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.
Except, of course, if you're not competent to make decisions about your medical treatment, the Court of Protection can authorise doctors to give you treatment even if you've refused it. In the case of minors, the High Court can authorise treatment against the wishes of parents if it's in the minor's interests to have the treatment.
Yes of course but I was focussing on where I believe the misunderstanding regarding a 'critical list' came from. Not all the technicalities around refusing treatment as the list is exhaustive & complex.

A court can overrule a parents decision if medical professionals think it's wrong. In this case the media have portrayed the parents as criminals before anybody knows what's happened which is very wrong.
[quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure that's the case. When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them? In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?[/p][/quote]There's no such thing as a critical list. You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected. You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.[/p][/quote]Except, of course, if you're not competent to make decisions about your medical treatment, the Court of Protection can authorise doctors to give you treatment even if you've refused it. In the case of minors, the High Court can authorise treatment against the wishes of parents if it's in the minor's interests to have the treatment.[/p][/quote]Yes of course but I was focussing on where I believe the misunderstanding regarding a 'critical list' came from. Not all the technicalities around refusing treatment as the list is exhaustive & complex. A court can overrule a parents decision if medical professionals think it's wrong. In this case the media have portrayed the parents as criminals before anybody knows what's happened which is very wrong. sotonboy84
  • Score: 4

6:36am Sat 30 Aug 14

elvisimo says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
And the bbc and itv and the world press, french police etc. maybe they are trying to save a life?
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.[/p][/quote]And the bbc and itv and the world press, french police etc. maybe they are trying to save a life? elvisimo
  • Score: -3

12:48pm Sat 30 Aug 14

IronLady2010 says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
I'm not sure that's the case.

When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them?

In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?
There's no such thing as a critical list.

You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected.

You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.
Thanks for explaining.

I guess my mistake came as I compared it to say a couple whereby one is severely ill and wants to die, the partner can not assist them. I wrongly assumed that the parents in this case know the child is likely to die and are in a way assisting with his death.

My mistake and I hold my hands up to that. x
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure that's the case. When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them? In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?[/p][/quote]There's no such thing as a critical list. You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected. You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.[/p][/quote]Thanks for explaining. I guess my mistake came as I compared it to say a couple whereby one is severely ill and wants to die, the partner can not assist them. I wrongly assumed that the parents in this case know the child is likely to die and are in a way assisting with his death. My mistake and I hold my hands up to that. x IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

7:21pm Sat 30 Aug 14

sotonboy84 says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Donald2000 wrote:
This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.
Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf.

We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.
I'm not sure that's the case.

When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them?

In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?
There's no such thing as a critical list.

You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected.

You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.
Thanks for explaining.

I guess my mistake came as I compared it to say a couple whereby one is severely ill and wants to die, the partner can not assist them. I wrongly assumed that the parents in this case know the child is likely to die and are in a way assisting with his death.

My mistake and I hold my hands up to that. x
It's not a mistake - so many complex laws & rules!

Morally though, I totally agree that it's irresponsible to take the child from hospital. It's just very sad that as we're not aware of the reasons behind it that the media jump to the conclusion that the parents are monsters.

I wouldn't remove a sick child from hospital but the focus should be on finding them. Not the media using this as opportunity to cash in : )
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donald2000[/bold] wrote: This is such a heart rending story. On the one hand, the parents may want to spent the child's last moments with him, on the other hand the police and the doctors have a duty of care to try to save the child's life. We must not rush to judgment on this.[/p][/quote]Anybody has a right to refuse treatment and in the case of a minor, their parents make decisions on their behalf. We don't know the full circumstances surrounding this but the hospital, police and Echo certainly have made a good job at portraying the parents as criminals.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure that's the case. When someone is on the critical list, doesn't the decision go over to the Doctors as they have a duty to keep someone alive until such a time there is no further hope of saving them? In this case the parents know he will likely die without treatment and as such could potentially be charged with murder or similar?[/p][/quote]There's no such thing as a critical list. You have to give consent for any treatment, even a blood test. If you refuse treatment your decision must be respected. You may be getting confused with DNR's (Do Not Resuscitate) and ADRT's (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) which are measures somebody can put in place to refuse treatment if they're unable to communicate. Unless these are in place a doctor will treat a patient.[/p][/quote]Thanks for explaining. I guess my mistake came as I compared it to say a couple whereby one is severely ill and wants to die, the partner can not assist them. I wrongly assumed that the parents in this case know the child is likely to die and are in a way assisting with his death. My mistake and I hold my hands up to that. x[/p][/quote]It's not a mistake - so many complex laws & rules! Morally though, I totally agree that it's irresponsible to take the child from hospital. It's just very sad that as we're not aware of the reasons behind it that the media jump to the conclusion that the parents are monsters. I wouldn't remove a sick child from hospital but the focus should be on finding them. Not the media using this as opportunity to cash in : ) sotonboy84
  • Score: -2
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