Family of Ashya King set to take legal action against Southampton General Hospital

Lawyer Juan Isidro Fernandez Diaz talks to the media.

Lawyer Juan Isidro Fernandez Diaz talks to the media.

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Crime Reporter

THE lawyer for the family of brain cancer patient Ashya King says they will sue Southampton General Hospital.

Juan Isidro Fernandez Diaz, who is representing Brett and Naghmeh King, claimed the family will take legal action against doctors.

Daily Echo:

He said: “They will be taking legal action against the doctors who libelled him in the hospital and they will file a criminal complaint for false detention and libel.”

Mr Diaz said the couple ''wanted the very best for their child''.

He said: ''They never thought that they committed any crime in the UK.

''The child is in perfect condition. All the doctors said (there was) no problem with the child to travel from England to Spain because the father knows (how) to give treatment to the child

''We are saying the boy is not in danger. The big brother is with the boy and he is in perfect conditions.''

It comes as the parents of five-year-old Ashya spent another night away from their son as relatives and supporters continued to demand their release from detention.

A judge in Spain ruled that Mr and Mrs King must be held for up to 72 hours while the court considers whether to grant a British extradition request.

The couple, who were arrested in Spain after Ashya was taken from a UK hospital without doctors' consent, told the judge in Madrid they do not want to return to the UK.

The boy is being treated in a hospital in Malaga and his grandmother and brother have criticised the way his parents are being treated although it is understood that his eldest brother Danny was allowed to see Ashya yesterday.

Daily Echo:

The family took him from Southampton General Hospital last Thursday and travelled to France with him and his six siblings before heading to the Costa del Sol in southern Spain.

Mr King, 51, and Mrs King, 45, were arrested on Saturday night in Velez-Malaga.

The couple travelled to Spain to sell a holiday home to obtain funds for proton beam therapy, which is not available through the NHS, according to reports.

Their son, who is suffering from a stage four brain tumour, is being cared for at the Materno-Infantil hospital in Malaga.

More than 75,000 people have signed an online petition demanding Ashya is reunited with his parents.

British police have defended their decision to request a European arrest warrant.

Assistant Chief Constable Chris Shead, of Hampshire Constabulary, said he was aware the police's approach had created a ''significant amount of debate'' but he would rather be criticised for ''being proactive'' than ''potentially having to explain why a child has lost his life''.

Simon Hayes, police and crime commissioner for Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, said: ''Hampshire Constabulary's role, as in many other cases, was to safeguard the interests of a very vulnerable sick young child and find Ashya.''

The Crown Prosecution Service said the case was under ''immediate review'' and a decision will be made whether to prosecute.

A spokesman said it had applied for the arrest warrant ''at the request of Hampshire Police for an offence of cruelty to a person under the age of 16 years'' on Friday.

The CPS reviewed the evidence available at that time. ''Further evidence is now being provided to the CPS and so the case is under immediate review.''

The Proton Therapy Centre in Prague confirmed it was able to treat Ashya immediately if he was eligible for therapy, with the cost of the treatment to be sorted out later.

Director of strategy Iva Tatounova said Naveed had been in touch with the centre yesterday, giving details of the Spanish doctors treating Ashya, and saying they were willing to send the centre the result of his MRI scan.

''We have asked them to do that, so we can assess the boy's condition,'' she said.

''There would have to be a recommendation from the doctors in Southampton, but we are here, and willing to co-operate.''

Daily Echo:

Dr Michael Marsh (above), medical director at University Hospital Southampton NHS Foundation Trust, said he regretted the relationship with the Kings had broken down.

He added: ''We have discussed proton beam radiotherapy with Ashya's family and there are some tumours that respond well to this type of treatment, but there are some cases where there isn't the evidence that this is a beneficial treatment. Where the evidence supports this treatment, we have made a referral and patients have been treated abroad.''

Comments (45)

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8:25am Tue 2 Sep 14

elvisimo says...

there will be two sides to this and I doubt we will know the full fact, patient confidentiality etc. That said having not dropped the prospect of charging the parents and allowing them to stay into prison for up to 3 days seems very counter productive and a PR disaster on all sides.
there will be two sides to this and I doubt we will know the full fact, patient confidentiality etc. That said having not dropped the prospect of charging the parents and allowing them to stay into prison for up to 3 days seems very counter productive and a PR disaster on all sides. elvisimo
  • Score: 72

8:30am Tue 2 Sep 14

Avengedeathpunch says...

Is that Jeremy clarkson?
Is that Jeremy clarkson? Avengedeathpunch
  • Score: -8

8:31am Tue 2 Sep 14

excusemoi says...

The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!! excusemoi
  • Score: 37

8:32am Tue 2 Sep 14

excusemoi says...

Avengedeathpunch wrote:
Is that Jeremy clarkson?
No, thank goodness! It's the family lawyer! lol
[quote][p][bold]Avengedeathpunch[/bold] wrote: Is that Jeremy clarkson?[/p][/quote]No, thank goodness! It's the family lawyer! lol excusemoi
  • Score: 0

8:38am Tue 2 Sep 14

elvisimo says...

excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
[quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why? elvisimo
  • Score: 19

8:51am Tue 2 Sep 14

SNUGGLES 78 says...

elvisimo wrote:
excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.
[quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why?[/p][/quote]kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters. SNUGGLES 78
  • Score: -5

8:55am Tue 2 Sep 14

skeptik says...

The Spanish lawyer (radio news) sounds very reasonable ands is asking reasonable questions - why he asks is the report from the doctors in Spain at odds with the near death suggestion that got the police involved. He has also consulted UK lawyers who have failed to explain what laws the parents have broken - he said he will be instructing UK lawyers to serve notice on the Southampton Trust and pursue matters. We shall see.
The Spanish lawyer (radio news) sounds very reasonable ands is asking reasonable questions - why he asks is the report from the doctors in Spain at odds with the near death suggestion that got the police involved. He has also consulted UK lawyers who have failed to explain what laws the parents have broken - he said he will be instructing UK lawyers to serve notice on the Southampton Trust and pursue matters. We shall see. skeptik
  • Score: 38

9:02am Tue 2 Sep 14

ecuk268 says...

SNUGGLES 78 wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.
What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it?

They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less.
[quote][p][bold]SNUGGLES 78[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why?[/p][/quote]kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.[/p][/quote]What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it? They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less. ecuk268
  • Score: 38

9:08am Tue 2 Sep 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

According to Crown Prosecution Service it had applied for the arrest warrant of seriously ill child Ashya's parents ''at the request of Hampshire Police for an offence of cruelty to a person under the age of 16 years''

Considering at that time information given to the police by Southampton Genral Hospital was based on their concern about the little boy in their care, because they were concerned about his care and medication, it may be possible to argue that at that time the Police and CPS actions were well intentioned and in good faith based on info available to them.

It may also be argued that had the parents of the child made the hospital aware that they have taken the child for arranging another treatment the panic may not have started.

BUT THEN THERE IS OTHER SIDE OF THIS CASE

Hospital has now admitted that their communications with parents had gone wrong, confirmed with the Medical Director having expressed regret. So that may be the reason parents decided not to tell hospital. But had they done that police panic 'may' have been avoided.

If the Southampton General Hospital staff was really that much concerned about the welfare of Aysha then how come they didn't even realise that he'd been missing for many hours?

Perhaps on that basis now the Police should get off the backs of parents, and let them look after the child they love, and along with Social Services start looking into hospital, regarding how much it exactly cares for children's safety, even if this was an isolated incident in which only the parents took the child away, but it could have been anybody else? Security of children in hospital must be looked into so that any loopholes can be closed and whoever responsible for this incident should face the music.

As Aysha has been found and it is clear that his parents were looking after him and trying to arrange treatment, which Southampton had ruled out, how can our Police and CPS justify not cancelling the European Arrest Warrant?

Since when parents loving their child and trying to pay for his treatment, which NHS can't provide for various reasons has become a serious crime?

By delaying that under the excuse of reviews of the case, are the CPS and Police themselves not being extremely cruel to same sick child who doesn't speak Spanish, is in hospital in Spain where his dedicated parents can't visist him because they are locked up due to our British Police warrant issued with the help of CPS against them?

As all the information was available to Hampshire's Police and Crime Commissioner rather than trying to justify he should be picking his phone and demanding from Police Chief and CPS pen pushers, why that Arrest Warrant is not immediately cancelled?

Authorities themselves are inflicting extrene emotional cruelty upon Aysha by denying seriously ill child the right to be visited by his mum and dad. And violating the human rights of dedicated parents to visit their child in hospital.

In his condition Aysha needs all the parental love, denying that can't be good for his emotional health.
According to Crown Prosecution Service it had applied for the arrest warrant of seriously ill child Ashya's parents ''at the request of Hampshire Police for an offence of cruelty to a person under the age of 16 years'' Considering at that time information given to the police by Southampton Genral Hospital was based on their concern about the little boy in their care, because they were concerned about his care and medication, it may be possible to argue that at that time the Police and CPS actions were well intentioned and in good faith based on info available to them. It may also be argued that had the parents of the child made the hospital aware that they have taken the child for arranging another treatment the panic may not have started. BUT THEN THERE IS OTHER SIDE OF THIS CASE Hospital has now admitted that their communications with parents had gone wrong, confirmed with the Medical Director having expressed regret. So that may be the reason parents decided not to tell hospital. But had they done that police panic 'may' have been avoided. If the Southampton General Hospital staff was really that much concerned about the welfare of Aysha then how come they didn't even realise that he'd been missing for many hours? Perhaps on that basis now the Police should get off the backs of parents, and let them look after the child they love, and along with Social Services start looking into hospital, regarding how much it exactly cares for children's safety, even if this was an isolated incident in which only the parents took the child away, but it could have been anybody else? Security of children in hospital must be looked into so that any loopholes can be closed and whoever responsible for this incident should face the music. As Aysha has been found and it is clear that his parents were looking after him and trying to arrange treatment, which Southampton had ruled out, how can our Police and CPS justify not cancelling the European Arrest Warrant? Since when parents loving their child and trying to pay for his treatment, which NHS can't provide for various reasons has become a serious crime? By delaying that under the excuse of reviews of the case, are the CPS and Police themselves not being extremely cruel to same sick child who doesn't speak Spanish, is in hospital in Spain where his dedicated parents can't visist him because they are locked up due to our British Police warrant issued with the help of CPS against them? As all the information was available to Hampshire's Police and Crime Commissioner rather than trying to justify he should be picking his phone and demanding from Police Chief and CPS pen pushers, why that Arrest Warrant is not immediately cancelled? Authorities themselves are inflicting extrene emotional cruelty upon Aysha by denying seriously ill child the right to be visited by his mum and dad. And violating the human rights of dedicated parents to visit their child in hospital. In his condition Aysha needs all the parental love, denying that can't be good for his emotional health. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 68

9:13am Tue 2 Sep 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

ecuk268 wrote:
SNUGGLES 78 wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.
What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it?

They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less.
What about the negligence of hospital, which didn't realise for many hours that a seriously ill child in its care has gone missing?
[quote][p][bold]ecuk268[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SNUGGLES 78[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why?[/p][/quote]kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.[/p][/quote]What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it? They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less.[/p][/quote]What about the negligence of hospital, which didn't realise for many hours that a seriously ill child in its care has gone missing? Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 7

9:21am Tue 2 Sep 14

now in the north says...

The doctor who began making threats should be held personally accountable. It is HIS pockets that should be hit!
He caused the breakdown by threatening the family unit, not to protect the child, but to force the parents on their knees where he was involved.
If the child was in danger, he would have made the application regardless of the situation and not for "questioning him"
He abused his authority, wasted police time and resources, and was intending to abuse other already strained systems set up to protect children in order to control the parents and stop them, at their own costs, from trying every possible avenue of salvation before trying the most archaic and sickening ones...ie chemotherapy!
The doctor who began making threats should be held personally accountable. It is HIS pockets that should be hit! He caused the breakdown by threatening the family unit, not to protect the child, but to force the parents on their knees where he was involved. If the child was in danger, he would have made the application regardless of the situation and not for "questioning him" He abused his authority, wasted police time and resources, and was intending to abuse other already strained systems set up to protect children in order to control the parents and stop them, at their own costs, from trying every possible avenue of salvation before trying the most archaic and sickening ones...ie chemotherapy! now in the north
  • Score: 37

9:27am Tue 2 Sep 14

Mister E says...

SNUGGLES 78 wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.
It's very easy to make definitive judgements from your armchair. BUT, we don't know all the facts! You just criticise the hospital and the police, others no doubt just criticise the parents!
The reality no doubt will prove to be that they ALL share some criticism and responsibility for this situation occurring. In a difficult case such as this it is easy for us looking in from afar to form judgements seeing black an white, but close up and involved it is not so simple.
The family, as I understand it and perhaps I'm over simplifying it, want this other treatment tried. The doctors are aware that this other treatment doesn't work in all cases and is expensive. If they think it won't work in this case they have a duty of care to all other patients to provide treatments that do work for them, and they are expensive too. Is it right to waste money on a treatment that won't work in a particular case at the expense of a patient that could of had a treatment that would work?
The child, in a serious condition, was entrusted to the care of the hospital.
He was removed without any consultation with doctors, are you suggesting the hospital should have done nothing but collectively shrug their shoulders and sigh oh well? Had they not done what they did, and the child had come to harm or passed away, I bet the same people criticising the hospital and staff would be up in arms as they'd done nothing!
I'm not saying I'm right, some or all of what I've said could be wrong and over simplifying the case but, let's not leap to polarised judgements. Both parties could, no doubt, have handled things better.
[quote][p][bold]SNUGGLES 78[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why?[/p][/quote]kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.[/p][/quote]It's very easy to make definitive judgements from your armchair. BUT, we don't know all the facts! You just criticise the hospital and the police, others no doubt just criticise the parents! The reality no doubt will prove to be that they ALL share some criticism and responsibility for this situation occurring. In a difficult case such as this it is easy for us looking in from afar to form judgements seeing black an white, but close up and involved it is not so simple. The family, as I understand it and perhaps I'm over simplifying it, want this other treatment tried. The doctors are aware that this other treatment doesn't work in all cases and is expensive. If they think it won't work in this case they have a duty of care to all other patients to provide treatments that do work for them, and they are expensive too. Is it right to waste money on a treatment that won't work in a particular case at the expense of a patient that could of had a treatment that would work? The child, in a serious condition, was entrusted to the care of the hospital. He was removed without any consultation with doctors, are you suggesting the hospital should have done nothing but collectively shrug their shoulders and sigh oh well? Had they not done what they did, and the child had come to harm or passed away, I bet the same people criticising the hospital and staff would be up in arms as they'd done nothing! I'm not saying I'm right, some or all of what I've said could be wrong and over simplifying the case but, let's not leap to polarised judgements. Both parties could, no doubt, have handled things better. Mister E
  • Score: 38

9:36am Tue 2 Sep 14

saintsfan76 says...

I have some knowledge of the long term patient care at the General having had an ex's daughter on the cancer ward: all be it quite a while back. Parents were able to take the less sick children off the ward for a few hours so all the criticism of the General in that respect is unfounded. When they became concerned after they failed to return him they alerted the police. Clearly as i have stated before thehospital did not realise this was a pre-meditated plan by the parents to take him to Spain. It is the Spanish police who have locked them up. As with any domestic involving a child the authorities have a duty of care to that child. The authorities get a lot of flack when they get it wrong but this time i think they got it right.
I have some knowledge of the long term patient care at the General having had an ex's daughter on the cancer ward: all be it quite a while back. Parents were able to take the less sick children off the ward for a few hours so all the criticism of the General in that respect is unfounded. When they became concerned after they failed to return him they alerted the police. Clearly as i have stated before thehospital did not realise this was a pre-meditated plan by the parents to take him to Spain. It is the Spanish police who have locked them up. As with any domestic involving a child the authorities have a duty of care to that child. The authorities get a lot of flack when they get it wrong but this time i think they got it right. saintsfan76
  • Score: 14

9:46am Tue 2 Sep 14

Frank28 says...

I'm sure the hospital would have allowed the child to seek treatment abroad, and consented to his release, had they known. Effectively kidnapping the child from the care of the hospital has resulted in the parents being detained in a foreign country having been denied bail, and the child being made a Ward Of Court. The CPS is reviewing this case, and it is quite possible that the parents may face charges. I would consider very carefully, the wisdom of suing the hospital. This is not the first time that a sick child of Jehovah Witness parents has been subject of Court intervention. There's something that we're not being told.
I'm sure the hospital would have allowed the child to seek treatment abroad, and consented to his release, had they known. Effectively kidnapping the child from the care of the hospital has resulted in the parents being detained in a foreign country having been denied bail, and the child being made a Ward Of Court. The CPS is reviewing this case, and it is quite possible that the parents may face charges. I would consider very carefully, the wisdom of suing the hospital. This is not the first time that a sick child of Jehovah Witness parents has been subject of Court intervention. There's something that we're not being told. Frank28
  • Score: -6

9:57am Tue 2 Sep 14

Donald2000 says...

I notice that the system (establishment) still doesn't know how to respond in this matter. Even as we speak the CPS are investigating whether charges need to be brought and no doubt this is at the instigation of the Hampshire Constabulary - another lot of people who only know how to pick up the phone and cause mayhem.

Not a single element of the powers that be have yet grasped that the Kings are only trying to get the best for their son - which bit of loving family do these people not understand?

Having picked up the phone to the police, Southampton General Hospital have done the worst thing possible. I think we all know that when the police become involved, all hell breaks out. If the person who dealt with the parents does not know to keep away from the telephone and from calling the police, then he or she really should resign. This is no way to run a hospital.

There was a time when hospitals used to treat people and to be a place of safety. Now they are just an arm of the state, with its attendant tendency to bully and browbeat.

I hope Southampton General Hospital have learned a serious lesson from this - namely to grow up and keep away from the phone. The police also should have no part in managing a young child's cancer. What is the matter with them all?
I notice that the system (establishment) still doesn't know how to respond in this matter. Even as we speak the CPS are investigating whether charges need to be brought and no doubt this is at the instigation of the Hampshire Constabulary - another lot of people who only know how to pick up the phone and cause mayhem. Not a single element of the powers that be have yet grasped that the Kings are only trying to get the best for their son - which bit of loving family do these people not understand? Having picked up the phone to the police, Southampton General Hospital have done the worst thing possible. I think we all know that when the police become involved, all hell breaks out. If the person who dealt with the parents does not know to keep away from the telephone and from calling the police, then he or she really should resign. This is no way to run a hospital. There was a time when hospitals used to treat people and to be a place of safety. Now they are just an arm of the state, with its attendant tendency to bully and browbeat. I hope Southampton General Hospital have learned a serious lesson from this - namely to grow up and keep away from the phone. The police also should have no part in managing a young child's cancer. What is the matter with them all? Donald2000
  • Score: -4

10:06am Tue 2 Sep 14

sotonboy84 says...

saintsfan76 wrote:
I have some knowledge of the long term patient care at the General having had an ex's daughter on the cancer ward: all be it quite a while back. Parents were able to take the less sick children off the ward for a few hours so all the criticism of the General in that respect is unfounded. When they became concerned after they failed to return him they alerted the police. Clearly as i have stated before thehospital did not realise this was a pre-meditated plan by the parents to take him to Spain. It is the Spanish police who have locked them up. As with any domestic involving a child the authorities have a duty of care to that child. The authorities get a lot of flack when they get it wrong but this time i think they got it right.
But that's contradictory of the hospital if that's the case. The hospital alerted by the police by saying the child was in grave danger and very seriously ill. If he was a 'less sick' child and therefore allowed to leave the hospital for a few hours, on that basis the hospital's actions and reasosn for informing the police are unfounded.
[quote][p][bold]saintsfan76[/bold] wrote: I have some knowledge of the long term patient care at the General having had an ex's daughter on the cancer ward: all be it quite a while back. Parents were able to take the less sick children off the ward for a few hours so all the criticism of the General in that respect is unfounded. When they became concerned after they failed to return him they alerted the police. Clearly as i have stated before thehospital did not realise this was a pre-meditated plan by the parents to take him to Spain. It is the Spanish police who have locked them up. As with any domestic involving a child the authorities have a duty of care to that child. The authorities get a lot of flack when they get it wrong but this time i think they got it right.[/p][/quote]But that's contradictory of the hospital if that's the case. The hospital alerted by the police by saying the child was in grave danger and very seriously ill. If he was a 'less sick' child and therefore allowed to leave the hospital for a few hours, on that basis the hospital's actions and reasosn for informing the police are unfounded. sotonboy84
  • Score: 30

10:13am Tue 2 Sep 14

sotonboy84 says...

skeptik wrote:
The Spanish lawyer (radio news) sounds very reasonable ands is asking reasonable questions - why he asks is the report from the doctors in Spain at odds with the near death suggestion that got the police involved. He has also consulted UK lawyers who have failed to explain what laws the parents have broken - he said he will be instructing UK lawyers to serve notice on the Southampton Trust and pursue matters. We shall see.
As more information comes to light it seems that the hospital have less and less of an argument.

The lawyer has asked good questions. The family say the child was well looked after and in no danger and the Spanish doctors assessment seems to agree with this. The only people who say the child was in grave danger and is seriously ill is the hospital who without that claim would not have been able to involve the police as they did and apply for a court order.

If the family want to sue the trust then that's their decision but what does need doing for public condfidence is a full investigation into how the whole thing has been handled by the hospital and police and not just the emphasis on criminalising the family. A full investigation would not be taking sides but to see where things had gone terribly wrong and learning from mistakes and holding anybody accountable for these mistakes.
[quote][p][bold]skeptik[/bold] wrote: The Spanish lawyer (radio news) sounds very reasonable ands is asking reasonable questions - why he asks is the report from the doctors in Spain at odds with the near death suggestion that got the police involved. He has also consulted UK lawyers who have failed to explain what laws the parents have broken - he said he will be instructing UK lawyers to serve notice on the Southampton Trust and pursue matters. We shall see.[/p][/quote]As more information comes to light it seems that the hospital have less and less of an argument. The lawyer has asked good questions. The family say the child was well looked after and in no danger and the Spanish doctors assessment seems to agree with this. The only people who say the child was in grave danger and is seriously ill is the hospital who without that claim would not have been able to involve the police as they did and apply for a court order. If the family want to sue the trust then that's their decision but what does need doing for public condfidence is a full investigation into how the whole thing has been handled by the hospital and police and not just the emphasis on criminalising the family. A full investigation would not be taking sides but to see where things had gone terribly wrong and learning from mistakes and holding anybody accountable for these mistakes. sotonboy84
  • Score: 34

10:14am Tue 2 Sep 14

ecuk268 says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
ecuk268 wrote:
SNUGGLES 78 wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.
What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it?

They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less.
What about the negligence of hospital, which didn't realise for many hours that a seriously ill child in its care has gone missing?
The parents had been allowed to take the child out for short periods so there would have been no initial concern.

Was six hours too long? Easy to be wise after the event. If the hospital had called the police after say, 3 hours and then he'd returned with his parents, they'd have been criticized for that.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ecuk268[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SNUGGLES 78[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why?[/p][/quote]kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.[/p][/quote]What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it? They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less.[/p][/quote]What about the negligence of hospital, which didn't realise for many hours that a seriously ill child in its care has gone missing?[/p][/quote]The parents had been allowed to take the child out for short periods so there would have been no initial concern. Was six hours too long? Easy to be wise after the event. If the hospital had called the police after say, 3 hours and then he'd returned with his parents, they'd have been criticized for that. ecuk268
  • Score: 8

11:15am Tue 2 Sep 14

BePositive.mum says...

we don't know the true facts other than a video I saw from Spain by Brett, he sounded very intelligent in his comments, a lot needs investigating.. the main importance over everything is that the parents are totally dedicated to their children and should not be separated from any of them.
we don't know the true facts other than a video I saw from Spain by Brett, he sounded very intelligent in his comments, a lot needs investigating.. the main importance over everything is that the parents are totally dedicated to their children and should not be separated from any of them. BePositive.mum
  • Score: 11

11:21am Tue 2 Sep 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

Whatever your views of the propriety of taking a very sick child 20-30 hours in the back of a car we must all find it disgraceful that the parents are trussed up and thrown in gaol. THIS COULD NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT THE EUROPEAN ARREST WARRANT. IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. IF WE ARE OUT OF THE EU THERE IS NO EUROPEAN ARREST WARRANT. IF YOU VOTE LABOUR YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE ON GETTING OUT OF THE EU. THINK VERY CAREFULLY. MAY IS ONLY 8 MONTHS AWAY.
Whatever your views of the propriety of taking a very sick child 20-30 hours in the back of a car we must all find it disgraceful that the parents are trussed up and thrown in gaol. THIS COULD NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT THE EUROPEAN ARREST WARRANT. IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. IF WE ARE OUT OF THE EU THERE IS NO EUROPEAN ARREST WARRANT. IF YOU VOTE LABOUR YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE ON GETTING OUT OF THE EU. THINK VERY CAREFULLY. MAY IS ONLY 8 MONTHS AWAY. Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -28

11:41am Tue 2 Sep 14

Linesman says...

The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why. Linesman
  • Score: -10

11:43am Tue 2 Sep 14

ecuk268 says...

Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Most sensible post of the day.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Most sensible post of the day. ecuk268
  • Score: 2

11:44am Tue 2 Sep 14

Linesman says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
ecuk268 wrote:
SNUGGLES 78 wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.
What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it?

They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less.
What about the negligence of hospital, which didn't realise for many hours that a seriously ill child in its care has gone missing?
They knew that it was with its parents, and I imagine that they assumed there was some reasonable explanation for the delay in the patient's return.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ecuk268[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SNUGGLES 78[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why?[/p][/quote]kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.[/p][/quote]What was the hospital supposed to have done when the parents removed their child without telling anyone? Completely ignore it? They informed the Police of a missing child. They would have been negligent if they done anything less.[/p][/quote]What about the negligence of hospital, which didn't realise for many hours that a seriously ill child in its care has gone missing?[/p][/quote]They knew that it was with its parents, and I imagine that they assumed there was some reasonable explanation for the delay in the patient's return. Linesman
  • Score: -11

11:49am Tue 2 Sep 14

deepheat says...

Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000.
If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem.

I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.
Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000. If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem. I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country. deepheat
  • Score: -30

11:58am Tue 2 Sep 14

FoysCornerBoy says...

Heinz Kiosk wrote:
Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.
I am disgusted at the way people like you have appropriated the reporting on this emotional and complex series of events to pursue a nasty, narrow, sectarian political agenda.
[quote][p][bold]Heinz Kiosk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.[/p][/quote]I am disgusted at the way people like you have appropriated the reporting on this emotional and complex series of events to pursue a nasty, narrow, sectarian political agenda. FoysCornerBoy
  • Score: 33

12:23pm Tue 2 Sep 14

sotonboy84 says...

deepheat wrote:
Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000.
If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem.

I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.
What a stupid post. The family want to sue the hospital trust for the way they've been treated by them. Their priority is to do the best they can for their child. If this ridiculous sharade hadn't spiralled out of control at the hands of the authorities then there would be nobody to sue.

I think you're trying to imply that should the family sue the trust & win, they should use any compensation to pay for treatment for others.

It's not about proving any points, it's about doing the best for their child which appears had always been their only monivation.
[quote][p][bold]deepheat[/bold] wrote: Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000. If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem. I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.[/p][/quote]What a stupid post. The family want to sue the hospital trust for the way they've been treated by them. Their priority is to do the best they can for their child. If this ridiculous sharade hadn't spiralled out of control at the hands of the authorities then there would be nobody to sue. I think you're trying to imply that should the family sue the trust & win, they should use any compensation to pay for treatment for others. It's not about proving any points, it's about doing the best for their child which appears had always been their only monivation. sotonboy84
  • Score: 26

12:25pm Tue 2 Sep 14

kiz.bartlett says...

deepheat wrote:
Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000.
If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem.

I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.
They already have one for eye tumors in the UK and cancer research is working hard to ensure they know as much as to be learned about proton therapy before pushing it out. But so far they haven't found any solid evidence that it's kinder or more effective than methods already in place.
[quote][p][bold]deepheat[/bold] wrote: Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000. If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem. I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.[/p][/quote]They already have one for eye tumors in the UK and cancer research is working hard to ensure they know as much as to be learned about proton therapy before pushing it out. But so far they haven't found any solid evidence that it's kinder or more effective than methods already in place. kiz.bartlett
  • Score: 9

12:29pm Tue 2 Sep 14

sotonboy84 says...

Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Your whole assumption in support of the hospital's actions is very simplistic.

The father claims the family were told by the doctor that if they continued to question his treatment he would obtain a court order to continue treatment without their consent.

If true, why would the family tell the hospital where they were going if their priority was to find the best treatment for their child? After all, they weren't breaking any laws & are the child's legal guardians.

There have been many opinions which everybody is entitled to but one thing is obvious & that's the family were desperately trying to do the best for their child.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Your whole assumption in support of the hospital's actions is very simplistic. The father claims the family were told by the doctor that if they continued to question his treatment he would obtain a court order to continue treatment without their consent. If true, why would the family tell the hospital where they were going if their priority was to find the best treatment for their child? After all, they weren't breaking any laws & are the child's legal guardians. There have been many opinions which everybody is entitled to but one thing is obvious & that's the family were desperately trying to do the best for their child. sotonboy84
  • Score: 19

12:35pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Linesman says...

Heinz Kiosk wrote:
Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.
It would appear that you think that, if a child goes missing from a hospital, the hospital, which has a duty of care to its patients, should take no action?

If that is an example of you poltical thinking, then I hope that you are never in a position where you can influence opinion.
[quote][p][bold]Heinz Kiosk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.[/p][/quote]It would appear that you think that, if a child goes missing from a hospital, the hospital, which has a duty of care to its patients, should take no action? If that is an example of you poltical thinking, then I hope that you are never in a position where you can influence opinion. Linesman
  • Score: -9

12:35pm Tue 2 Sep 14

sotonboy84 says...

kiz.bartlett wrote:
deepheat wrote:
Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000.
If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem.

I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.
They already have one for eye tumors in the UK and cancer research is working hard to ensure they know as much as to be learned about proton therapy before pushing it out. But so far they haven't found any solid evidence that it's kinder or more effective than methods already in place.
That's fair enough if having firm evidence of treatment is a requirement before the NHS will fund it.

The point in this story is the parents asked the NHS to fund it, were refused so intend to use their own money to pay for it in Europe.
[quote][p][bold]kiz.bartlett[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]deepheat[/bold] wrote: Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000. If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem. I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.[/p][/quote]They already have one for eye tumors in the UK and cancer research is working hard to ensure they know as much as to be learned about proton therapy before pushing it out. But so far they haven't found any solid evidence that it's kinder or more effective than methods already in place.[/p][/quote]That's fair enough if having firm evidence of treatment is a requirement before the NHS will fund it. The point in this story is the parents asked the NHS to fund it, were refused so intend to use their own money to pay for it in Europe. sotonboy84
  • Score: 10

12:42pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Linesman says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Your whole assumption in support of the hospital's actions is very simplistic.

The father claims the family were told by the doctor that if they continued to question his treatment he would obtain a court order to continue treatment without their consent.

If true, why would the family tell the hospital where they were going if their priority was to find the best treatment for their child? After all, they weren't breaking any laws & are the child's legal guardians.

There have been many opinions which everybody is entitled to but one thing is obvious & that's the family were desperately trying to do the best for their child.
The Basic FACT (R) FACT is that the child went missing from the hospital.

Are you suggesting that the hospital should take no action, and put it down to just bad luck?

Do you think that this was just a 'spur of the moment' action by the parents?

Had you not considered that this was a well-planned action taken by the family?

If you think that it was planned, then is it not reasonable for them to have taken into account what reaction there would be at the hospital, and the action that it would take, not knowing what had happened to one of its patients?

A SIMPLE PHONE CALL TO THE HOSPITAL, EITHER FROM THE PARENTS, ONCE THEY WERE IN FRANCE, OR RELAYED BY THE GRANDMOTHER, COULD HAVE PREVENTED THE SUBSEQUENT PROBLEMS, AND THEY WOULD NOW BE AT ASHYA'S BEDSIDE INSTEAD OF IN A SPANISH PRISON CELL.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Your whole assumption in support of the hospital's actions is very simplistic. The father claims the family were told by the doctor that if they continued to question his treatment he would obtain a court order to continue treatment without their consent. If true, why would the family tell the hospital where they were going if their priority was to find the best treatment for their child? After all, they weren't breaking any laws & are the child's legal guardians. There have been many opinions which everybody is entitled to but one thing is obvious & that's the family were desperately trying to do the best for their child.[/p][/quote]The Basic FACT (R) FACT is that the child went missing from the hospital. Are you suggesting that the hospital should take no action, and put it down to just bad luck? Do you think that this was just a 'spur of the moment' action by the parents? Had you not considered that this was a well-planned action taken by the family? If you think that it was planned, then is it not reasonable for them to have taken into account what reaction there would be at the hospital, and the action that it would take, not knowing what had happened to one of its patients? A SIMPLE PHONE CALL TO THE HOSPITAL, EITHER FROM THE PARENTS, ONCE THEY WERE IN FRANCE, OR RELAYED BY THE GRANDMOTHER, COULD HAVE PREVENTED THE SUBSEQUENT PROBLEMS, AND THEY WOULD NOW BE AT ASHYA'S BEDSIDE INSTEAD OF IN A SPANISH PRISON CELL. Linesman
  • Score: -5

1:12pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
While trying to be apologist for Southampton hospital you have only mentioned what suited your argument. And have stayed conveniently silent about the rest.

Last night TV news showed one of the bosses of hospital accepting the fact that communication system failed and expressed his regret over failings.

So yes it would have helped if parents had emailed or phoned the hospital BUT they may say that it happened because of the attitude of some people in hospital, and did not realise that search for them had started and when they realised they'd made their position known through social media and statement on YouTube, which was immediately picked up by most of the electronic media.

Don't you think that with that confirmation the European Search Warrant should have been cancelled?

OK, on behalf of our authorities like police you may say that pictures and statements on the Internet were not sufficient to prove the absence of 'cruelty against under 16 yr child' The reason given for European Search Warrant'

BUT having found the family looking after Aysha with all the love the 'child cruelty investigation should have stopped, especially when doctors in Spain didn't confirn any sign of physical cruelty, and an independent medical organisation in Prague has also confirmed that the parents have been trying to arrange treatment for their child.

Yes while in the absence of that information our Police and CPS were doing the right thing, but after that by failing to withdraw the warrant they themselves are being cruel to the same child. Because due to that document Aysha's parents are locked up, they can neither look after Aysha's siblings nor visist him in the hospital. Spainish hospital may be looking after the child as best as they can, but poor little boy doesn't speak Spanish, he is recovering from serious operation on his brain but can't be visited by his dedicated parents, especially his mum, who was on his side most of the time when he was in Southampton.

Surely even you can see that this is extreme mental cruelty being inflicted on a child due to the attitude of our country's authorities, who are also violating loving dedicated parents right to look after their sick child and rest of the family.

Just because most of the time our institutions like NHS, CPS and Police etc work reasonably well, should not mean their mistakes should be ignored or powerful holders of certain offices allowed to get away with causing distress to decent parents by getting them locked up and emotionally hurting seriously ill Aysha
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]While trying to be apologist for Southampton hospital you have only mentioned what suited your argument. And have stayed conveniently silent about the rest. Last night TV news showed one of the bosses of hospital accepting the fact that communication system failed and expressed his regret over failings. So yes it would have helped if parents had emailed or phoned the hospital BUT they may say that it happened because of the attitude of some people in hospital, and did not realise that search for them had started and when they realised they'd made their position known through social media and statement on YouTube, which was immediately picked up by most of the electronic media. Don't you think that with that confirmation the European Search Warrant should have been cancelled? OK, on behalf of our authorities like police you may say that pictures and statements on the Internet were not sufficient to prove the absence of 'cruelty against under 16 yr child' The reason given for European Search Warrant' BUT having found the family looking after Aysha with all the love the 'child cruelty investigation should have stopped, especially when doctors in Spain didn't confirn any sign of physical cruelty, and an independent medical organisation in Prague has also confirmed that the parents have been trying to arrange treatment for their child. Yes while in the absence of that information our Police and CPS were doing the right thing, but after that by failing to withdraw the warrant they themselves are being cruel to the same child. Because due to that document Aysha's parents are locked up, they can neither look after Aysha's siblings nor visist him in the hospital. Spainish hospital may be looking after the child as best as they can, but poor little boy doesn't speak Spanish, he is recovering from serious operation on his brain but can't be visited by his dedicated parents, especially his mum, who was on his side most of the time when he was in Southampton. Surely even you can see that this is extreme mental cruelty being inflicted on a child due to the attitude of our country's authorities, who are also violating loving dedicated parents right to look after their sick child and rest of the family. Just because most of the time our institutions like NHS, CPS and Police etc work reasonably well, should not mean their mistakes should be ignored or powerful holders of certain offices allowed to get away with causing distress to decent parents by getting them locked up and emotionally hurting seriously ill Aysha Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 16

1:17pm Tue 2 Sep 14

sotonboy84 says...

Linesman wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Your whole assumption in support of the hospital's actions is very simplistic.

The father claims the family were told by the doctor that if they continued to question his treatment he would obtain a court order to continue treatment without their consent.

If true, why would the family tell the hospital where they were going if their priority was to find the best treatment for their child? After all, they weren't breaking any laws & are the child's legal guardians.

There have been many opinions which everybody is entitled to but one thing is obvious & that's the family were desperately trying to do the best for their child.
The Basic FACT (R) FACT is that the child went missing from the hospital.

Are you suggesting that the hospital should take no action, and put it down to just bad luck?

Do you think that this was just a 'spur of the moment' action by the parents?

Had you not considered that this was a well-planned action taken by the family?

If you think that it was planned, then is it not reasonable for them to have taken into account what reaction there would be at the hospital, and the action that it would take, not knowing what had happened to one of its patients?

A SIMPLE PHONE CALL TO THE HOSPITAL, EITHER FROM THE PARENTS, ONCE THEY WERE IN FRANCE, OR RELAYED BY THE GRANDMOTHER, COULD HAVE PREVENTED THE SUBSEQUENT PROBLEMS, AND THEY WOULD NOW BE AT ASHYA'S BEDSIDE INSTEAD OF IN A SPANISH PRISON CELL.
You're clearly impartial to the facts, you support the full actions of the hospital and this is the angle your argument comes from rather than seeing both sides of the story and the mess this has escalated into.

Since when does a child being in hospital deny a parent rights to their child and make them fully accountable to the hospital?

I'm not suggesting that the hospital should have taken no action but the action they took was questionable. Firstly the father claims that they were threatened by the doctor that he would apply for a court order to continue treatment on the child if the family continued to question his treatment and therefore denying them any involvement in their child's treatment.

The hospital also claimed the child was in grave danger and seriously ill but the parents say he isn't as sick as the hospital claimed and this is supported by the Spanish doctors assessment. This claim from the hospital is what led to the scale of the police operation as they were told a child might die unless he was found.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and it's a good job you would never find yourself in such a situation. I'm glad you're aware of the scale of the operation that would be played out by the hospital, police and media if a parents takes their child from hospital because what has happened over the past few days is unimaginable. But, good job you're aware this is what is considered expected and just behaviour.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Your whole assumption in support of the hospital's actions is very simplistic. The father claims the family were told by the doctor that if they continued to question his treatment he would obtain a court order to continue treatment without their consent. If true, why would the family tell the hospital where they were going if their priority was to find the best treatment for their child? After all, they weren't breaking any laws & are the child's legal guardians. There have been many opinions which everybody is entitled to but one thing is obvious & that's the family were desperately trying to do the best for their child.[/p][/quote]The Basic FACT (R) FACT is that the child went missing from the hospital. Are you suggesting that the hospital should take no action, and put it down to just bad luck? Do you think that this was just a 'spur of the moment' action by the parents? Had you not considered that this was a well-planned action taken by the family? If you think that it was planned, then is it not reasonable for them to have taken into account what reaction there would be at the hospital, and the action that it would take, not knowing what had happened to one of its patients? A SIMPLE PHONE CALL TO THE HOSPITAL, EITHER FROM THE PARENTS, ONCE THEY WERE IN FRANCE, OR RELAYED BY THE GRANDMOTHER, COULD HAVE PREVENTED THE SUBSEQUENT PROBLEMS, AND THEY WOULD NOW BE AT ASHYA'S BEDSIDE INSTEAD OF IN A SPANISH PRISON CELL.[/p][/quote]You're clearly impartial to the facts, you support the full actions of the hospital and this is the angle your argument comes from rather than seeing both sides of the story and the mess this has escalated into. Since when does a child being in hospital deny a parent rights to their child and make them fully accountable to the hospital? I'm not suggesting that the hospital should have taken no action but the action they took was questionable. Firstly the father claims that they were threatened by the doctor that he would apply for a court order to continue treatment on the child if the family continued to question his treatment and therefore denying them any involvement in their child's treatment. The hospital also claimed the child was in grave danger and seriously ill but the parents say he isn't as sick as the hospital claimed and this is supported by the Spanish doctors assessment. This claim from the hospital is what led to the scale of the police operation as they were told a child might die unless he was found. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and it's a good job you would never find yourself in such a situation. I'm glad you're aware of the scale of the operation that would be played out by the hospital, police and media if a parents takes their child from hospital because what has happened over the past few days is unimaginable. But, good job you're aware this is what is considered expected and just behaviour. sotonboy84
  • Score: 15

1:21pm Tue 2 Sep 14

vag says...

I hope they try to sue the hospital, and it costs them every penny they have. Then I hope they lose the case, and the hospital claims costs from them.
I hope they try to sue the hospital, and it costs them every penny they have. Then I hope they lose the case, and the hospital claims costs from them. vag
  • Score: -12

1:38pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

Linesman wrote:
Heinz Kiosk wrote:
Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.
It would appear that you think that, if a child goes missing from a hospital, the hospital, which has a duty of care to its patients, should take no action?

If that is an example of you poltical thinking, then I hope that you are never in a position where you can influence opinion.
" I don't care what is done in my name" Fine. Vote Labour. Enjoy the CAP, EAW and its myriad delights. I think most people are more discerning than you.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heinz Kiosk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.[/p][/quote]It would appear that you think that, if a child goes missing from a hospital, the hospital, which has a duty of care to its patients, should take no action? If that is an example of you poltical thinking, then I hope that you are never in a position where you can influence opinion.[/p][/quote]" I don't care what is done in my name" Fine. Vote Labour. Enjoy the CAP, EAW and its myriad delights. I think most people are more discerning than you. Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -3

1:39pm Tue 2 Sep 14

MyaBrinks says...

I am in full support of the parents (desperate) decision and right to seek alternative treatment for their son and am against the fact these people are currently banned from seeing him.

However I can't help but think that although the hospital have brought this on themselves by handling the situation with the media completely out of context, I can't help but think there goes and another large amount of money on compensation that should be spent on improving the current state of UHS.
I am in full support of the parents (desperate) decision and right to seek alternative treatment for their son and am against the fact these people are currently banned from seeing him. However I can't help but think that although the hospital have brought this on themselves by handling the situation with the media completely out of context, I can't help but think there goes and another large amount of money on compensation that should be spent on improving the current state of UHS. MyaBrinks
  • Score: 0

1:42pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

FoysCornerBoy wrote:
Heinz Kiosk wrote:
Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.
I am disgusted at the way people like you have appropriated the reporting on this emotional and complex series of events to pursue a nasty, narrow, sectarian political agenda.
Abuse doesn't work I'm afraid. If you believe that "the authorities" are capable of behaving proportionately with the power of the EAW, dream on. Nothing "nasty" or "sectarian" (?) in believing the odious EU is bad for all.
[quote][p][bold]FoysCornerBoy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Heinz Kiosk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]Simpler. No European Arrest Warrant= no possibility of bureaucrats in England behaving disproportionality. Do you want to challenge that status quo? Well then whatever you do don't vote Labour next May. They'll no doubt say the EAW helps catch terrorists. No it don't but it's sure good at catching minnows whose relationship with hospitals has failed.[/p][/quote]I am disgusted at the way people like you have appropriated the reporting on this emotional and complex series of events to pursue a nasty, narrow, sectarian political agenda.[/p][/quote]Abuse doesn't work I'm afraid. If you believe that "the authorities" are capable of behaving proportionately with the power of the EAW, dream on. Nothing "nasty" or "sectarian" (?) in believing the odious EU is bad for all. Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -5

2:01pm Tue 2 Sep 14

deepheat says...

Just got back from lunch break.
So it appears that if the parents drop the compo case they will be let out of clink. Emotional blackmail.
I hope he gets his treatment, and I would have thought as I said earlier (but obviously some people didn't get the gist going by the thumbs down) that if they did sue the NHS for 100's of thousands they could use some of the money to campaign for a cause in which they believe in.
Just got back from lunch break. So it appears that if the parents drop the compo case they will be let out of clink. Emotional blackmail. I hope he gets his treatment, and I would have thought as I said earlier (but obviously some people didn't get the gist going by the thumbs down) that if they did sue the NHS for 100's of thousands they could use some of the money to campaign for a cause in which they believe in. deepheat
  • Score: 1

2:52pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Chas O'Bursledon says...

I have little sympathy for the parents. Controversial as this may be, I believe that taking a child without discussing it with the hospital is not in the best interests of the child. His needs are paramount. Doctors do not know everything but they do know more than the Kings and their Google searches. Given that they were prepared to fund proton beam therapy (today's latest disclosure) it would seem that the Kings acted in haste.

And now they want to sue the hospital! What for? Acting in the best interests of the child? Had Aysha died because if the parents' actions and said nothing, they would be condemned from here to Kingdom come for inaction! The same applies to the police. Then there would have been a case for action for the neglect of the authorities.

If they do sue and are awarded damages (for what?) then there will be even less money for the treatment of patients in need. Brilliant! I hope the Kings can live with that. By the way, I'm happy for the NHS to pay for proton beam therapy if it's efficacious for Aysha.

In my opinion, the Kings have behaved irresponsibly and have brought this on their own heads. I make no apology for this view. Aysha's needs are the greatest, not theirs.

However, I do think they should be allowed to see the wee man as their absence can only distress him further. Bring them all home and let's sort out the problem for here.

It's what should have happened in the first place.
I have little sympathy for the parents. Controversial as this may be, I believe that taking a child without discussing it with the hospital is not in the best interests of the child. His needs are paramount. Doctors do not know everything but they do know more than the Kings and their Google searches. Given that they were prepared to fund proton beam therapy (today's latest disclosure) it would seem that the Kings acted in haste. And now they want to sue the hospital! What for? Acting in the best interests of the child? Had Aysha died because if the parents' actions and said nothing, they would be condemned from here to Kingdom come for inaction! The same applies to the police. Then there would have been a case for action for the neglect of the authorities. If they do sue and are awarded damages (for what?) then there will be even less money for the treatment of patients in need. Brilliant! I hope the Kings can live with that. By the way, I'm happy for the NHS to pay for proton beam therapy if it's efficacious for Aysha. In my opinion, the Kings have behaved irresponsibly and have brought this on their own heads. I make no apology for this view. Aysha's needs are the greatest, not theirs. However, I do think they should be allowed to see the wee man as their absence can only distress him further. Bring them all home and let's sort out the problem for here. It's what should have happened in the first place. Chas O'Bursledon
  • Score: 2

4:32pm Tue 2 Sep 14

kiz.bartlett says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
kiz.bartlett wrote:
deepheat wrote:
Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000.
If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem.

I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.
They already have one for eye tumors in the UK and cancer research is working hard to ensure they know as much as to be learned about proton therapy before pushing it out. But so far they haven't found any solid evidence that it's kinder or more effective than methods already in place.
That's fair enough if having firm evidence of treatment is a requirement before the NHS will fund it.

The point in this story is the parents asked the NHS to fund it, were refused so intend to use their own money to pay for it in Europe.
They wanted the NHS to fund it yes, but there are only certain cases in which the NHS will fund.

people who qualify for proton therapy are sent to the USA to receive treatment. Imagine if everyone in the UK wanted proton therapy when they contracted cancer, it would be a huge payout.

It's unfortunate, but they will send certain patients based on whether or not they qualify. After, the doctors will relay results back to further the research of proton therapy in the UK.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kiz.bartlett[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]deepheat[/bold] wrote: Little Ashya King's proton beam therapy costs £100,000. If the parents won their case against the hospital and it ran into 100's of thousands would they use this money to spearhead a campaign to get proton beam therapy in the UK as this would raise a lot of extra money and help other parents who are going through the same problem. I hope a compromise can be sorted where the hospital foots the bill and gets Ashya on a course of proton beam therapy then the parents should drop any compo case because they would have proved their point, and with the public support they would receive try and get proton beam therapy available in this country.[/p][/quote]They already have one for eye tumors in the UK and cancer research is working hard to ensure they know as much as to be learned about proton therapy before pushing it out. But so far they haven't found any solid evidence that it's kinder or more effective than methods already in place.[/p][/quote]That's fair enough if having firm evidence of treatment is a requirement before the NHS will fund it. The point in this story is the parents asked the NHS to fund it, were refused so intend to use their own money to pay for it in Europe.[/p][/quote]They wanted the NHS to fund it yes, but there are only certain cases in which the NHS will fund. people who qualify for proton therapy are sent to the USA to receive treatment. Imagine if everyone in the UK wanted proton therapy when they contracted cancer, it would be a huge payout. It's unfortunate, but they will send certain patients based on whether or not they qualify. After, the doctors will relay results back to further the research of proton therapy in the UK. kiz.bartlett
  • Score: -8

4:36pm Tue 2 Sep 14

kiz.bartlett says...

And the fact of travelling a long journey, reputable hospitals, illnesses, being so close after an operation etc was hugely dangerous.

I'm no doctor so I can't speculate on the refusal, and I don't know the full story either. But I know that there is no benefit at all to a doctor to refuse someone else to treat a patient, so the decisions would have had to be on the fear of the child.
And the fact of travelling a long journey, reputable hospitals, illnesses, being so close after an operation etc was hugely dangerous. I'm no doctor so I can't speculate on the refusal, and I don't know the full story either. But I know that there is no benefit at all to a doctor to refuse someone else to treat a patient, so the decisions would have had to be on the fear of the child. kiz.bartlett
  • Score: -3

5:13pm Tue 2 Sep 14

southamptonadi says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Linesman wrote:
The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital.

The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions.

The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned.

Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police.

The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted.

The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given.

In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period.

I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.
While trying to be apologist for Southampton hospital you have only mentioned what suited your argument. And have stayed conveniently silent about the rest.

Last night TV news showed one of the bosses of hospital accepting the fact that communication system failed and expressed his regret over failings.

So yes it would have helped if parents had emailed or phoned the hospital BUT they may say that it happened because of the attitude of some people in hospital, and did not realise that search for them had started and when they realised they'd made their position known through social media and statement on YouTube, which was immediately picked up by most of the electronic media.

Don't you think that with that confirmation the European Search Warrant should have been cancelled?

OK, on behalf of our authorities like police you may say that pictures and statements on the Internet were not sufficient to prove the absence of 'cruelty against under 16 yr child' The reason given for European Search Warrant'

BUT having found the family looking after Aysha with all the love the 'child cruelty investigation should have stopped, especially when doctors in Spain didn't confirn any sign of physical cruelty, and an independent medical organisation in Prague has also confirmed that the parents have been trying to arrange treatment for their child.

Yes while in the absence of that information our Police and CPS were doing the right thing, but after that by failing to withdraw the warrant they themselves are being cruel to the same child. Because due to that document Aysha's parents are locked up, they can neither look after Aysha's siblings nor visist him in the hospital. Spainish hospital may be looking after the child as best as they can, but poor little boy doesn't speak Spanish, he is recovering from serious operation on his brain but can't be visited by his dedicated parents, especially his mum, who was on his side most of the time when he was in Southampton.

Surely even you can see that this is extreme mental cruelty being inflicted on a child due to the attitude of our country's authorities, who are also violating loving dedicated parents right to look after their sick child and rest of the family.

Just because most of the time our institutions like NHS, CPS and Police etc work reasonably well, should not mean their mistakes should be ignored or powerful holders of certain offices allowed to get away with causing distress to decent parents by getting them locked up and emotionally hurting seriously ill Aysha
I just want to throw something in the mix.

I don't think the warrant would ever have been cancelled due to the hospital seeking a high court order for the return of their patient,

once they breeched that order they were committing a criminal offence and have to answer to that charge.

I suppose the hospital could of asked for the court order to be cancelled but I don't know enough about them or the full facts of this case.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: The FACTS are that this child was under the care of Southampton General Hospital. The parents were allowed to take Ashya out, away from the ward, and had done so on previous occasions. The hospital raised the alarm when Ashya had not been returned a number of hours after the time that he was expected to be returned. Not knowing whether there had been an accident, or any other mishap, and not having been contacted by the parents to give a reason for the delay, the hospital alerted the police. The police investigation eventually discovered CCTV of Ashya, in the company of his family, boarding a ferry at Southampton, and still not having received any contact from the family, Interpol were alerted. The parents had every right to remove Ashya from the hospital, but as Southampton General Hospital had 'a duty of care', they took the appropriate action when one of their patients went missing, with no explanation given. In this age of modern communication, there was, in my opinion, no reason why Ashya's parents could not contact the hospital, once they were in France, to inform them of what they had done, or have asked Ashya's grandmother to make contact after a given period. I think that the problems that the parents are now facing with both the Spanish and British police could have been avoided if they had just picked up the telephone to tell the hospital what they were doing and why.[/p][/quote]While trying to be apologist for Southampton hospital you have only mentioned what suited your argument. And have stayed conveniently silent about the rest. Last night TV news showed one of the bosses of hospital accepting the fact that communication system failed and expressed his regret over failings. So yes it would have helped if parents had emailed or phoned the hospital BUT they may say that it happened because of the attitude of some people in hospital, and did not realise that search for them had started and when they realised they'd made their position known through social media and statement on YouTube, which was immediately picked up by most of the electronic media. Don't you think that with that confirmation the European Search Warrant should have been cancelled? OK, on behalf of our authorities like police you may say that pictures and statements on the Internet were not sufficient to prove the absence of 'cruelty against under 16 yr child' The reason given for European Search Warrant' BUT having found the family looking after Aysha with all the love the 'child cruelty investigation should have stopped, especially when doctors in Spain didn't confirn any sign of physical cruelty, and an independent medical organisation in Prague has also confirmed that the parents have been trying to arrange treatment for their child. Yes while in the absence of that information our Police and CPS were doing the right thing, but after that by failing to withdraw the warrant they themselves are being cruel to the same child. Because due to that document Aysha's parents are locked up, they can neither look after Aysha's siblings nor visist him in the hospital. Spainish hospital may be looking after the child as best as they can, but poor little boy doesn't speak Spanish, he is recovering from serious operation on his brain but can't be visited by his dedicated parents, especially his mum, who was on his side most of the time when he was in Southampton. Surely even you can see that this is extreme mental cruelty being inflicted on a child due to the attitude of our country's authorities, who are also violating loving dedicated parents right to look after their sick child and rest of the family. Just because most of the time our institutions like NHS, CPS and Police etc work reasonably well, should not mean their mistakes should be ignored or powerful holders of certain offices allowed to get away with causing distress to decent parents by getting them locked up and emotionally hurting seriously ill Aysha[/p][/quote]I just want to throw something in the mix. I don't think the warrant would ever have been cancelled due to the hospital seeking a high court order for the return of their patient, once they breeched that order they were committing a criminal offence and have to answer to that charge. I suppose the hospital could of asked for the court order to be cancelled but I don't know enough about them or the full facts of this case. southamptonadi
  • Score: 0

6:40pm Tue 2 Sep 14

HeathfieldLady says...

`I have been told by a friend, a local Jehovah's Witness that she believed the only reason for going to Southern Spain was to try and sell a holiday apartment the family owned. This was going to take some time and was to raise funds for Ashya's treatment abroad, but not in Spain as there is no suitable specialised hospital available. In this case why was Ashya taken at all? Could he not have remained here and his father travelled alone to Spain to make the necessary arrangements? Ashya's grandmother says publicly that her grandson is dying. Would any readers take a relative of theirs on such a long car journey in those circumstances when completely unnecessary?. Had Ashya's father travelled alone would he not probably be back in this country today with all arrangements made?
`I have been told by a friend, a local Jehovah's Witness that she believed the only reason for going to Southern Spain was to try and sell a holiday apartment the family owned. This was going to take some time and was to raise funds for Ashya's treatment abroad, but not in Spain as there is no suitable specialised hospital available. In this case why was Ashya taken at all? Could he not have remained here and his father travelled alone to Spain to make the necessary arrangements? Ashya's grandmother says publicly that her grandson is dying. Would any readers take a relative of theirs on such a long car journey in those circumstances when completely unnecessary?. Had Ashya's father travelled alone would he not probably be back in this country today with all arrangements made? HeathfieldLady
  • Score: 3

7:42pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

HeathfieldLady wrote:
`I have been told by a friend, a local Jehovah's Witness that she believed the only reason for going to Southern Spain was to try and sell a holiday apartment the family owned. This was going to take some time and was to raise funds for Ashya's treatment abroad, but not in Spain as there is no suitable specialised hospital available. In this case why was Ashya taken at all? Could he not have remained here and his father travelled alone to Spain to make the necessary arrangements? Ashya's grandmother says publicly that her grandson is dying. Would any readers take a relative of theirs on such a long car journey in those circumstances when completely unnecessary?. Had Ashya's father travelled alone would he not probably be back in this country today with all arrangements made?
You can organise a sale by phone and the internet but selling a holiday home in Spain at the end of the season is unlikely to happen. They may very well have been heading across the Straits where the EAW doesn't run. If the poor souls had headed to the Czech Republic for the treatment you may not know the horrible creatures they'd have been locked up with. There are some infecting Cardiff. You'd not want to know....
[quote][p][bold]HeathfieldLady[/bold] wrote: `I have been told by a friend, a local Jehovah's Witness that she believed the only reason for going to Southern Spain was to try and sell a holiday apartment the family owned. This was going to take some time and was to raise funds for Ashya's treatment abroad, but not in Spain as there is no suitable specialised hospital available. In this case why was Ashya taken at all? Could he not have remained here and his father travelled alone to Spain to make the necessary arrangements? Ashya's grandmother says publicly that her grandson is dying. Would any readers take a relative of theirs on such a long car journey in those circumstances when completely unnecessary?. Had Ashya's father travelled alone would he not probably be back in this country today with all arrangements made?[/p][/quote]You can organise a sale by phone and the internet but selling a holiday home in Spain at the end of the season is unlikely to happen. They may very well have been heading across the Straits where the EAW doesn't run. If the poor souls had headed to the Czech Republic for the treatment you may not know the horrible creatures they'd have been locked up with. There are some infecting Cardiff. You'd not want to know.... Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -2

8:50pm Tue 2 Sep 14

pantsanon says...

Mister E wrote:
SNUGGLES 78 wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
excusemoi wrote:
The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!!
why?
kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.
It's very easy to make definitive judgements from your armchair. BUT, we don't know all the facts! You just criticise the hospital and the police, others no doubt just criticise the parents!
The reality no doubt will prove to be that they ALL share some criticism and responsibility for this situation occurring. In a difficult case such as this it is easy for us looking in from afar to form judgements seeing black an white, but close up and involved it is not so simple.
The family, as I understand it and perhaps I'm over simplifying it, want this other treatment tried. The doctors are aware that this other treatment doesn't work in all cases and is expensive. If they think it won't work in this case they have a duty of care to all other patients to provide treatments that do work for them, and they are expensive too. Is it right to waste money on a treatment that won't work in a particular case at the expense of a patient that could of had a treatment that would work?
The child, in a serious condition, was entrusted to the care of the hospital.
He was removed without any consultation with doctors, are you suggesting the hospital should have done nothing but collectively shrug their shoulders and sigh oh well? Had they not done what they did, and the child had come to harm or passed away, I bet the same people criticising the hospital and staff would be up in arms as they'd done nothing!
I'm not saying I'm right, some or all of what I've said could be wrong and over simplifying the case but, let's not leap to polarised judgements. Both parties could, no doubt, have handled things better.
if a doctor hadn't reported my child missing from hospital i would be livid ....also i do feel for the child BUT the parents should of informed someone at the hospital that they were not going to be bringing him back to the ward as children and others are allowed outside they reported him missing when they realised they were not coming back. Lessons can be learned here for the hospital and parents 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other
[quote][p][bold]Mister E[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SNUGGLES 78[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]excusemoi[/bold] wrote: The CPS should be investigating the hospital NOT the parents as there's no case to answer!!!![/p][/quote]why?[/p][/quote]kidnap of a cancer stricken childs parents by the plod instigated by the "hospital "" for starters.[/p][/quote]It's very easy to make definitive judgements from your armchair. BUT, we don't know all the facts! You just criticise the hospital and the police, others no doubt just criticise the parents! The reality no doubt will prove to be that they ALL share some criticism and responsibility for this situation occurring. In a difficult case such as this it is easy for us looking in from afar to form judgements seeing black an white, but close up and involved it is not so simple. The family, as I understand it and perhaps I'm over simplifying it, want this other treatment tried. The doctors are aware that this other treatment doesn't work in all cases and is expensive. If they think it won't work in this case they have a duty of care to all other patients to provide treatments that do work for them, and they are expensive too. Is it right to waste money on a treatment that won't work in a particular case at the expense of a patient that could of had a treatment that would work? The child, in a serious condition, was entrusted to the care of the hospital. He was removed without any consultation with doctors, are you suggesting the hospital should have done nothing but collectively shrug their shoulders and sigh oh well? Had they not done what they did, and the child had come to harm or passed away, I bet the same people criticising the hospital and staff would be up in arms as they'd done nothing! I'm not saying I'm right, some or all of what I've said could be wrong and over simplifying the case but, let's not leap to polarised judgements. Both parties could, no doubt, have handled things better.[/p][/quote]if a doctor hadn't reported my child missing from hospital i would be livid ....also i do feel for the child BUT the parents should of informed someone at the hospital that they were not going to be bringing him back to the ward as children and others are allowed outside they reported him missing when they realised they were not coming back. Lessons can be learned here for the hospital and parents 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other pantsanon
  • Score: 1
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