Send pictures to us
Send us your pictures and video by text, email or by uploading. Click here to find out how. »
|
|
|
|
Tax cuts for pensioners scrapped
8:57am Thursday 21st February 2008
Comments (75)
A PROPOSED ten per cent discount on pensioners' council tax has been scrapped.
It was thrown out when Southampton's ruling Tory party was ousted from power last night by a Labour and Liberal Democrat alliance.
The two parties joined up to veto the Tories' budget which promised the lowest ever council tax rise in the history of the authority - along with £6.1m of savings and 52 job losses.
The proposed 10 per cent discount for Southampton pensioner households was thrown out, with Labour and the Lib Dems claiming it favoured more well off pensioners as those on council tax benefit were excluded.
The opposition groups branded it a gimmick by the Conservatives to win votes.
The tax discount would have been the equivalent of adding on 1.6 per cent to the tax for the rest of the city.
Instead, Labour and the Lib Dems were able to get their own £173m budget voted through, which does away with many of the proposed cuts, but increases council tax in the city by 3.49 per cent.
For the full story, see today's Daily Echo
Your Say YourDaily Echo
hammer below!, soton says...
9:11am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:no its not
This is a real shame. Pensionsers have to find an extra £100 a year for their council tax now. Coupled with rising fuel costs, and cuts in bus services,it is a hammer below to penisoners.
Libertarian, Winchester says...
9:14am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:It's not a shame, it's a relief.
This is a real shame. Pensionsers have to find an extra £100 a year for their council tax now. Coupled with rising fuel costs, and cuts in bus services,it is a hammer below to penisoners.
It took some pretty radical action from "Lib-Lab" to make sure this crazy idea was squashed.
Adrian Smith, says...
9:17am Thu 21 Feb 08
Libertarian wrote:No doubt the Lib-Lab pact will need to come up with some equally crazy idea around late April to win the votes of these poor pensioners.
Neil Fitzgerald wrote: This is a real shame. Pensionsers have to find an extra £100 a year for their council tax now. Coupled with rising fuel costs, and cuts in bus services,it is a hammer below to penisoners.It's not a shame, it's a relief. It took some pretty radical action from "Lib-Lab" to make sure this crazy idea was squashed.
older tax payer, southampton says...
9:19am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald, Conservative Candidate for Sholing, Southampton says...
9:41am Thu 21 Feb 08
So if it's ok for Labour to offer a one off election bribe for pensioners, why is it unacceptable for pensioners to get a 10% council tax discount for good?
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne Ward., Southampton says...
9:51am Thu 21 Feb 08
Libertarian wrote:How is it a shame that the Tories 10% was rejected?
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:It's not a shame, it's a relief.
This is a real shame. Pensionsers have to find an extra £100 a year for their council tax now. Coupled with rising fuel costs, and cuts in bus services,it is a hammer below to penisoners.
It took some pretty radical action from "Lib-Lab" to make sure this crazy idea was squashed.
Pensioners are already in some cases having to choose between paying their Council Tax, heating and bills and eating properly. This is clearly unfair with Council Tax outstripping the rise in pensions by 40% in recent years. Added to this increases in heating, water and food it all adds up to a totally unfair deal for our older people.
Thanks from the 13,000 pensioners that would have benefited Cllr Bridle and Cllr Vinson.
Rational, Eastleigh says...
9:54am Thu 21 Feb 08
mr.southampton, Southampton says...
9:56am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald, Conservative Candidate for Sholing wrote:1.) It discriminates against young people, families and anyone who isn't a pensioner
It's worth pointing put in the 05 General Election Labour proposed a £200 council tax rebate for pensioners. Which they honoured. Once. So if it's ok for Labour to offer a one off election bribe for pensioners, why is it unacceptable for pensioners to get a 10% council tax discount for good?
2.) It wasn't applicable to pensioners already in receipt of a council tax discount (i.e the poorest)
3.) A straight 10% cut would disproportionately benefit the most well off pensioners, those living in large properties with healthy occupational pensions, savings and investements.
4.) This was to be funded in cuts in services, again having a negative effect on those who are most vulnerable in our City.
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton says...
9:58am Thu 21 Feb 08
What about those pensioners who can't qualify for benefit because they just miss out?
Why should they be forced to pay higher council tax bills when council tax rises are outstripping rises in the state penison?
Tax payers already pay for pensioners by funding the NHS, pensions etc.
Are you saying the rest of society shouldn't pay for pensioners to use the NHS?
Are you saying that the rets of society shouldn't pay towards pensioners pensions?
What about TV licences?
Pensioners get them free, should they be removed?
Should pensioners not get free bus travel either?
Jules, Soton says...
9:59am Thu 21 Feb 08
Reader, says...
10:00am Thu 21 Feb 08
Rational wrote:The story does say that, if you read all of it.
Errrrr...my understanding is that the rest of the council tax payers would have had to pay for the 10% cut.....and for the poorer members ofsociety, including pensioners, there is council tax benefit....Still never let the truth get in the way of the tories......
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton says...
10:05am Thu 21 Feb 08
Yes it was. Single pensioners who get 25% off would have got 35% off.
Ian, bitterne park says...
10:05am Thu 21 Feb 08
You and your party used the discount as a cynical vote catching ploy.Just be honest and admit it.
It is common knowledge that in these times of low electoral turn outs, pensioners arguably make a sizeable chunk of voting fodder.A little bit of 'bait' would have guarrenteed the difference of votes in some seats to guarrantee a Tory majority.
Lets hope your bankrupt free marketeer policies are kept at arms length by the electorate in May.
Is councillor Moulton going to give the £100k back for that survey now?
What a waste.
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton says...
10:11am Thu 21 Feb 08
No-one has answered my question yet.
Why is it acceptable for Labour to offer a one off council tax bribe of £200 and yet when we want to introduce a long term 10% council tax discount it is suddenly unfair?
mr.southampton, Southampton says...
10:13am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:Even if that was the case, which I don't beleive it was you were still offering the biggest discounts in real terms to those who are better off, why not means test the discount to give a bigger discount to the poorest???
"2.) It wasn't applicable to pensioners already in receipt of a council tax discount (i.e the poorest)" Yes it was. Single pensioners who get 25% off would have got 35% off.
The policy also totally disregards the struggle of many younger people on low salaries in the City.
And don't try to dress this cynical ploy to gain votes as an act of social conscience aimed at helping the poorest, you're Tories so no one will fall for it!
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton says...
10:17am Thu 21 Feb 08
Means testing is degrading.
I'm 25. I'm a graduate with student loans like a lot of people my age.
I'm not rich.
But I accept that pensioners who have worked hard all their lives deserve to be secure in their retirement.
I noticed you haven't answered the questions:
What about those pensioners who can't qualify for benefit because they just miss out?
Why should they be forced to pay higher council tax bills when council tax rises are outstripping rises in the state penison?
Tax payers already pay for pensioners by funding the NHS, pensions etc.
Are you saying the rest of society shouldn't pay for pensioners to use the NHS?
Are you saying that the rest of society shouldn't pay towards pensioners pensions?
What about TV licences?
Pensioners get them free, should they be removed?
Should pensioners not get free bus travel either?
Ian, bitterne park says...
10:18am Thu 21 Feb 08
Bribing well off pensioners is not in ther same ball park as the 05 Labour election pledge. Labour policies are to benefit the worse off in society not the privileged few.
Mr Southampton above is right.
a simple Q., says...
10:23am Thu 21 Feb 08
Libertarian, Winchester says...
10:25am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:It doesn't matter which party is offering the discount. It is not fair for my generation to have to compensate for the baby boomers.
Ian,
No-one has answered my question yet.
Why is it acceptable for Labour to offer a one off council tax bribe of £200 and yet when we want to introduce a long term 10% council tax discount it is suddenly unfair?
Many of us are struggling with paying our taxes, not just the zillion oldies we would also have to carry.
mr.southampton, Southampton says...
10:27am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:If means testing is so degrading why were the Tories so keen on it during their stint in Government?
Mr Southampton, Means testing is degrading. I'm 25. I'm a graduate with student loans like a lot of people my age. I'm not rich. But I accept that pensioners who have worked hard all their lives deserve to be secure in their retirement. I noticed you haven't answered the questions: What about those pensioners who can't qualify for benefit because they just miss out? Why should they be forced to pay higher council tax bills when council tax rises are outstripping rises in the state penison? Tax payers already pay for pensioners by funding the NHS, pensions etc. Are you saying the rest of society shouldn't pay for pensioners to use the NHS? Are you saying that the rest of society shouldn't pay towards pensioners pensions? What about TV licences? Pensioners get them free, should they be removed? Should pensioners not get free bus travel either?
Means testing this benefit would mean that the biggest beneficeraries would not be the most well off.
As for your other questions if you look at my earlier posts it was not me who raised those points but as you insist I answer:
What about those pensioners who can't qualify for benefit because they just miss out?
This is a national issue which needs to be addressed by Central Government
Why should they be forced to pay higher council tax bills when council tax rises are outstripping rises in the state penison?
Ditto for police officers, nurses...
Tax payers already pay for pensioners by funding the NHS, pensions etc.
Yes, and your point is?
Are you saying the rest of society shouldn't pay for pensioners to use the NHS?
No
Are you saying that the rest of society shouldn't pay towards pensioners pensions?
You're obviously not familiar with the way the National Insurance scheme operates.
What about TV licences?
Yes what about them?
Pensioners get them free, should they be removed?
Should pensioners not get free bus travel either?
No, this seems like a good benefit. As the poorest pensioners are less likely to have access to cars or alternative forms of transport this benefits the poorest so is a good thing.
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton says...
10:27am Thu 21 Feb 08
Bribing well off pensioners is not in ther same ball park as the 05 Labour election pledge. Labour policies are to benefit the worse off in society not the privileged few.
Labour gave a £200 rebate to pensioners for council tax. Correct me if I'm wrong but it went to all pensioners? It was a one off bribe.
We propose a long term 10% council tax discount.
How is that worse?
ha ha, soton says...
10:32am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:Because people like me will be paying for it year after year. That why its worse, now that you one point is answered can you move on.
Bribing well off pensioners is not in ther same ball park as the 05 Labour election pledge. Labour policies are to benefit the worse off in society not the privileged few.Labour gave a £200 rebate to pensioners for council tax. Correct me if I\'m wrong but it went to all pensioners? It was a one off bribe. We propose a long term 10% council tax discount. How is that worse?
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton, Southampton says...
10:38am Thu 21 Feb 08
So why is a discount different?
Ian, bitterne park says...
10:38am Thu 21 Feb 08
There is your answer mate. Maybe if the Tories didnt single out a particular section of pensioners you wouldnt get the flak.
I dont recall Labour getting the flak you are, back in 05.
Jill, says...
10:39am Thu 21 Feb 08
The Conservatives made use of it and the local Labour and LD councillors then voted it out.
Let us hope that pensioners on 1 May are aware of who has cost them an extra £150 a year.
D, Southampton says...
10:40am Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald wrote:Neil
Mr Southampton, Means testing is degrading. I\'m 25. I\'m a graduate with student loans like a lot of people my age. I\'m not rich. But I accept that pensioners who have worked hard all their lives deserve to be secure in their retirement. I noticed you haven\'t answered the questions: What about those pensioners who can\'t qualify for benefit because they just miss out? Why should they be forced to pay higher council tax bills when council tax rises are outstripping rises in the state penison? Tax payers already pay for pensioners by funding the NHS, pensions etc. Are you saying the rest of society shouldn\'t pay for pensioners to use the NHS? Are you saying that the rest of society shouldn\'t pay towards pensioners pensions? What about TV licences? Pensioners get them free, should they be removed? Should pensioners not get free bus travel either?
Means testing is not degrading - to apply for a grant or to get relief on your fees for University you have to be means tested. Is that degarding? No, it's life.
About pensioners who just miss out on benefits - what about them? There has to be a cut off somewhere and you could use the same argument for low paid workers who just miss out on income support or the myriad of other benefits.
Council bills outstripping pension rises - what about the rise in council tax outstripping pay rises for those that work?
As you well know, he's not saying society shouldn't pay for old people to use the NHS. He's saying we shouldn't pay for well off pensioners to receive a discount on their council tax!
TV licenses are paid for by your license fee, not general taxation. If you don't want to pay then don't own a TV.
Finally, by giving pensioners free bus travel and a council tax discount we're effectively paying twice.
Incidently, I believe the whole current council tax system is unfair and should be replaced with a local income tax - something the Lib Dems proposed nationally.
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton says...
10:42am Thu 21 Feb 08
They did, especially because we Conservatives proposed upto 50% off council tax for all pensioners during the 05 general election.
Labour, fearful over council tax rises decided to do a one-off bribe.
Also Ian you can't get a 10% discount if you get 100% council tax benefit because 10% on zero is still zero!
C, Southampton says...
10:52am Thu 21 Feb 08
Ian, bitterne park says...
10:54am Thu 21 Feb 08
On the face of it the council tax rise is very low and valuable services have been saved. Sadly at the expense of 50 odd jobs at the council.
We can hammer on all night about the pensioner discount but the fact remains that the whole Tory budget proposal would have come at the costs of services that all tax payers share.
A privatisation agenda would severely damage a council already starved of funds since the early 80s.The same applies to all public services in the country.
Lets agree not to use the pensioners as a political football eh?
If the rich and business paid more of their share maybe we wouldnt have to.
Adrian Smith, says...
11:03am Thu 21 Feb 08
C wrote:Life is means tested. There are things you can't do or buy unless you have the means.
D of Southampton. I have to disagree with your comment about means testing not being degrading, it is. My parents had to go through means testing which reduced my mother to tears. Neither of them have savings, both rely on a state pension and small private pension. I take it then that you are quite happy to see pensioners reduced to tears!
If they were reduced to tears that's unfortunate - but what other system would you advocate?
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne, Southampton says...
11:04am Thu 21 Feb 08
a simple Q. wrote:Actually Labour and the Lib Dems singled out under 7's for free swimming.
Neil, why are pensioners being singled out for special treatment over other members of our society?
How can you say thats not age discrimination?
D, Southampton says...
11:11am Thu 21 Feb 08
C wrote:C, I have no desire to reduce anyone to tears and I fail to see how you drew that conclusion from my post. I was simply pointing out that means testing applies to young and old and is not, in my opinion, degrading. It is, as Adrian has said, a fact of life.
D of Southampton. I have to disagree with your comment about means testing not being degrading, it is. My parents had to go through means testing which reduced my mother to tears. Neither of them have savings, both rely on a state pension and small private pension. I take it then that you are quite happy to see pensioners reduced to tears!
Disgusted, London says...
11:39am Thu 21 Feb 08
toxteth o'grady, says...
11:42am Thu 21 Feb 08
Pensioners stuglling in cold houses while rich shareholders are kept happy....scandelous
maths man, soton says...
11:43am Thu 21 Feb 08
Disgusted wrote:If you are 60 you were born in 1948.
Pensioners deserve a cut in council tax, they fought for our country and in comparison to the rest of us use fewer services so why not? Why should the older generation (and us) pay for the idle scroungers who can't be bothered to work to bleed our services dry!
If you are 65 you were born in 1943. To which war are you refering?
Disgusted, London says...
11:51am Thu 21 Feb 08
math man, soton says...
11:57am Thu 21 Feb 08
Disgusted wrote:No, but you seem to be infering that all pensioners have served in the armed forces at have fought in wars. I may be a fool but you sir are one too.
Maths man you are a fool, are you suggesting that you are only a pensioner if you are 60 or 65?
Paramjit Bahia, Southampton says...
12:00pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Adrian Smith wrote:Adrian, I am very disappointed with your attitude. What happened to your compassion and charity work? Or that does not apply to rhe elderly???
C wrote: D of Southampton. I have to disagree with your comment about means testing not being degrading, it is. My parents had to go through means testing which reduced my mother to tears. Neither of them have savings, both rely on a state pension and small private pension. I take it then that you are quite happy to see pensioners reduced to tears!Life is means tested. There are things you can't do or buy unless you have the means. If they were reduced to tears that's unfortunate - but what other system would you advocate?
Paramjit Bahia, says...
12:05pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald, Conservative Candidate for Sholing wrote:Yes I agree there is lot of hypocrisy. Proves the fact that apart from names there is no difference between Tories and New Labour.
It's worth pointing put in the 05 General Election Labour proposed a £200 council tax rebate for pensioners. Which they honoured. Once. So if it's ok for Labour to offer a one off election bribe for pensioners, why is it unacceptable for pensioners to get a 10% council tax discount for good?
Lib-Dems are sugar coated Tories any way.
Neil all I can say is this that you lot are open and honest about being nasties Bridle and her new partner (Political one of course before Eddie gets upset) that Lib-Dem Dracula look alike are not...
Let us wait and see what voters in Sholing decide in May. Personally if I lived in Sholing I will not for any of you; certainly not for June Bridle.
An angry soton resident, says...
12:07pm Thu 21 Feb 08
This money will only end up in the pockets of the councillors and not into providing the elderly with extra support.
I note nothing was said about the waver for special constables.
mr.southampton, Southampton says...
12:09pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Disgusted wrote:So what happens to 'idle scroungers' once they have reached retirement age? Do they become transformed on their 65th Birthday into war heroes and hard working salt of the earth types, or are you just stereotyping every person who happens to draw a pension.
Pensioners deserve a cut in council tax, they fought for our country and in comparison to the rest of us use fewer services so why not? Why should the older generation (and us) pay for the idle scroungers who can't be bothered to work to bleed our services dry!
Hahaha, says...
12:15pm Thu 21 Feb 08
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:So you are going to claim free council tax for under 7's now are you?
a simple Q. wrote: Neil, why are pensioners being singled out for special treatment over other members of our society?Actually Labour and the Lib Dems singled out under 7's for free swimming. How can you say thats not age discrimination?
A desperate comeback, I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong!
Jeanne, Southampton says...
12:20pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Paramjit Bahia, Southampton says...
12:22pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Only thing I can say is that I know where I stand with Tories, but sadly I cannot say the same about June Bridle and many other closet Conservatives in New Labour. I feel sorry for many good socialists who still exist in the de-facto right wing of Tories called NuLabour
We do not have to agree politically but people in political life should be honest about their views and have healthy respect for each other. Sadly I cannot have any of that for Vincent and Bridle. Most of us know where we stood with Alec Sammules lot, I hated their admin. But we will never know where that Vincent will lead to. And when you combine him with Bridle and few others like her even this non believer starts praying to God!
In the absence of a socialist candidate I will be voting Green. Apart from Arthur Scargill's SLP Greens are the only honest political organisation available.
In a straight fight between Tories and New Lab I would have supported the Devil I know (NuLab) but combination with Lib Dem? NO WAY.
This Bridle woman has undone all the hard work that was put in by us while Alan Whitehead was the leader. Now she is in political bed with Vincent about whom she has said all kinds of things in the past, proves my point. We are out of the frying into the FIRE
Derry, west hampshire says...
12:25pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Jeanne, Southampton says...
12:26pm Thu 21 Feb 08
a simple Q, says...
12:27pm Thu 21 Feb 08
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:It was a simple question, it deserved a straight answer, the fact that you can only reply with another question leads me to believe you don't have an answer!
a simple Q. wrote: Neil, why are pensioners being singled out for special treatment over other members of our society?Actually Labour and the Lib Dems singled out under 7's for free swimming. How can you say thats not age discrimination?
Christoff, says...
12:28pm Thu 21 Feb 08
mr.southampton wrote:here here. Not every pensioner fought in the war and not every pensioner worked hard all their life!!
Disgusted wrote: Pensioners deserve a cut in council tax, they fought for our country and in comparison to the rest of us use fewer services so why not? Why should the older generation (and us) pay for the idle scroungers who can't be bothered to work to bleed our services dry!So what happens to 'idle scroungers' once they have reached retirement age? Do they become transformed on their 65th Birthday into war heroes and hard working salt of the earth types, or are you just stereotyping every person who happens to draw a pension.
mr.southampton, Southampton says...
12:33pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Jeanne wrote:Lucky you being able to retire at 65 we're going to have to work past the age you retired to something like 70+?
I am bitterly disappointed. I worked from age 16 to 65, when I retired 4 years ago. In all that time I paid full NI and tax as I was fully employed except for a brief period (a few years only) when I was raising my children. I am sick to death of the conceited young who resent the idea of their parents' and grandparents' generation reaping the fruits of their labours. Unfortunately, I couldn't save for my old age because of the sheer expense of bringing up my children, but I never, ever thought that at the age of 70 I would have to decide whether I pay this poxy Council tax (for no result as far as I can see) or have heating or food or .... the list goes on. Sadly, because my husband and I between us receive about £5 a week above the limit required to have rebates, so we are definitely in that nomansland between comfortably off and relatively poor. This so-called Labour council and Government couldn't care less about anyone but themselves and as far smug June Bridle - words fail.
We also face rising house prices which and accomodation costs (incidentally many private rented accomodation is owned by people who got on the property ladder years ago so the young are effectively subsidising the retirements of the baby-boomer generation) All this is creating a huge squeeze for many younger people.
It may have been an expense for you having children but many people now can't even afford to have children until way in their 30s, just look at the statistics.
And as someone pointed out earlier Council Tax is a Tory invention.
As for heating, don't you also receive a winter fuel allowance????
Adrian Smith, says...
12:33pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Paramjit Bahia wrote:My attitude reflects the real World - it is means tested.
Adrian Smith wrote:Adrian, I am very disappointed with your attitude. What happened to your compassion and charity work? Or that does not apply to rhe elderly???C wrote: D of Southampton. I have to disagree with your comment about means testing not being degrading, it is. My parents had to go through means testing which reduced my mother to tears. Neither of them have savings, both rely on a state pension and small private pension. I take it then that you are quite happy to see pensioners reduced to tears!Life is means tested. There are things you can't do or buy unless you have the means. If they were reduced to tears that's unfortunate - but what other system would you advocate?
I have compassion and the charity work I do as a case worker means I actually spend time with people (often retired) completing financial appraisals which form the basis for subsequent means testing. I ensure that those people get the benefits to which they are entitled and help them apply for grants and other income which is always means tested. Not one of my cases has ever burst into tears when completing the documentation.
There are people with £10K's in the bank who refuse to heat their homes or feed themselves - but they are rare. Most people I see cut their cloth accordingly - so that's no expensive holidays, cars, TV's, etc. that they can't afford. If I can make their life a little more comfortable I will.
But I ask again if we don't means test what alternative system is there?
M Dunsdon, Southampton says...
12:39pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Regarding the planned tory 10% council tax discount, The Tories know full well that council tax benefit is given to those that need it.
Serviceman, Southampton says...
12:57pm Thu 21 Feb 08
maths man wrote:Korean War 1950 onwards
Disgusted wrote: Pensioners deserve a cut in council tax, they fought for our country and in comparison to the rest of us use fewer services so why not? Why should the older generation (and us) pay for the idle scroungers who can't be bothered to work to bleed our services dry!If you are 60 you were born in 1948. If you are 65 you were born in 1943. To which war are you refering?
United Kingdom:
1,109 dead
2,674 wounded
1,060 MIA or POW
Falklands War 1982
Casualties and losses
258 killed
777 wounded
115 taken prisoner
6 Sea Harriers
4 Harrier GR.3
24 helicopters
2 destroyers
2 frigates
1 LSL landing ship
1 LCU amphibious craft
1 containership
4 ships withdrawn
An angry soton resident, says...
1:04pm Thu 21 Feb 08
--------------------
--
As well as those who can't be bothered to work for a living.
sotonian, southampton says...
1:30pm Thu 21 Feb 08
These pensioners have arleady paid in to the system all their working lives. They have helped to pay for the health service, education, roads, etc . When you are a pensioner perhaps you will not have the same view.
c, Southampton says...
1:30pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Adrian Smith wrote:Thanks Adrian, I do appreciate the depth of feeling you've shown when referring to someone being reduced to tears as "unfortunate".
Paramjit Bahia wrote:My attitude reflects the real World - it is means tested. I have compassion and the charity work I do as a case worker means I actually spend time with people (often retired) completing financial appraisals which form the basis for subsequent means testing. I ensure that those people get the benefits to which they are entitled and help them apply for grants and other income which is always means tested. Not one of my cases has ever burst into tears when completing the documentation. There are people with £10K's in the bank who refuse to heat their homes or feed themselves - but they are rare. Most people I see cut their cloth accordingly - so that's no expensive holidays, cars, TV's, etc. that they can't afford. If I can make their life a little more comfortable I will. But I ask again if we don't means test what alternative system is there?Adrian Smith wrote:Adrian, I am very disappointed with your attitude. What happened to your compassion and charity work? Or that does not apply to rhe elderly???C wrote: D of Southampton. I have to disagree with your comment about means testing not being degrading, it is. My parents had to go through means testing which reduced my mother to tears. Neither of them have savings, both rely on a state pension and small private pension. I take it then that you are quite happy to see pensioners reduced to tears!Life is means tested. There are things you can't do or buy unless you have the means. If they were reduced to tears that's unfortunate - but what other system would you advocate?
There are a lot of people out there that are living on the border line. Means testing is simply wrong, it does not take into account the money that goes out. You may have a different view of this, I can only go by the experience my parents had to go through.
Is there a better system, I sincerely hope so. Will out politicians look for it, I doubt it. They are more interested in holding onto the power that they have, whichever party is in power,
Paramjit Bahia, Southampton says...
1:34pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Adrian Smith wrote:Pay decent pension in the first place so that pensioners can afford to pay their way like everybody else.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:My attitude reflects the real World - it is means tested. I have compassion and the charity work I do as a case worker means I actually spend time with people (often retired) completing financial appraisals which form the basis for subsequent means testing. I ensure that those people get the benefits to which they are entitled and help them apply for grants and other income which is always means tested. Not one of my cases has ever burst into tears when completing the documentation. There are people with £10K\'s in the bank who refuse to heat their homes or feed themselves - but they are rare. Most people I see cut their cloth accordingly - so that\'s no expensive holidays, cars, TV\'s, etc. that they can\'t afford. If I can make their life a little more comfortable I will. But I ask again if we don\'t means test what alternative system is there?Adrian Smith wrote:Adrian, I am very disappointed with your attitude. What happened to your compassion and charity work? Or that does not apply to rhe elderly???C wrote: D of Southampton. I have to disagree with your comment about means testing not being degrading, it is. My parents had to go through means testing which reduced my mother to tears. Neither of them have savings, both rely on a state pension and small private pension. I take it then that you are quite happy to see pensioners reduced to tears!Life is means tested. There are things you can\'t do or buy unless you have the means. If they were reduced to tears that\'s unfortunate - but what other system would you advocate?
I am sure you are better aware than me that socialist Barbra Castle had introduced such a system, which was abolished by that mad axe woman Thatcher. Sadly New Labour has continued with same policies. In fact at one time New Labour treated pensioners even worse than the Tories when they had offered them only 75p a week rise.
Yes I have met old people in tears; many of them suffer in silence and do not claim what they are entitled to. I am sure in your work you would have found this attitude in our senior generation that their self respect stops them from claiming their full entitlement. Even the government has often admitted that large sums often remain unclaimed.
Yes you are right that there are some who will abuse the system, nobody should defend that.
But biggest abusers of public funds are large corporations and the money wasted upon killing people in places like Iraq and subsidising the EU scroungers. Same EU whose accounts have not been signed off by accountants for god knows how many years.
Keep up the good work.
Kind regards
Parmi Bahia
Antagonist, says...
2:06pm Thu 21 Feb 08
cyberman, Southampton says...
2:18pm Thu 21 Feb 08
bsingh, southampton says...
2:26pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Office Girl, In an office near you says...
2:37pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Millions missed out.
Although thousands of pensioners who live abroad also got the money as they also get their winter fuel allowance - even if they live in Spain!
A year later my office was inundated with calls from pensioners demanding to know where their £200 had gone.
Had to tell them it was only paid during election year - perhaps the Government will give you another £200 when they want your vote!
What more..., London says...
3:00pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Big Daddy V, says...
3:03pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Antagonist, says...
3:50pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Big Daddy V wrote:That's the spirit.
Good, they dont need it they wont be round for to much longer anyway.The younger people need that money more to buy it on drugs and beer & prostitutes. Give me ur money oldies
Mike, Soton says...
4:41pm Thu 21 Feb 08
There are undoubtedly some very hard-up pensioners but there are also some very rich ones as well. The trouble with handouts like this is they benefit millionaires as much as the destitute. In fact, those already on council tax benefit did not qualify.
None of us like paying tax of any sort, yet we want the services that councils and the Government provide funded by taxation. The truth is that if you want decent services you have to pay for them.
Math Man, soton says...
4:58pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Serviceman wrote:If you had been in the Korean war or the Falklands war you would be to young to draw the state pension. I think you missed the point of the post.
maths man wrote:Korean War 1950 onwards
Disgusted wrote: Pensioners deserve a cut in council tax, they fought for our country and in comparison to the rest of us use fewer services so why not? Why should the older generation (and us) pay for the idle scroungers who can't be bothered to work to bleed our services dry!If you are 60 you were born in 1948. If you are 65 you were born in 1943. To which war are you refering?
United Kingdom:
1,109 dead
2,674 wounded
1,060 MIA or POW
Falklands War 1982
Casualties and losses
258 killed
777 wounded
115 taken prisoner
6 Sea Harriers
4 Harrier GR.3
24 helicopters
2 destroyers
2 frigates
1 LSL landing ship
1 LCU amphibious craft
1 containership
4 ships withdrawn
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne, Southampton says...
5:03pm Thu 21 Feb 08
a simple Q wrote:I was just pointing out that in the world we live some groups need more help then others - i.e. the vulnerable - pensioners etc. I dont think the fact that some groups are being targeted is the real issue. The Tories simple wanted to help those that really needed it.
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:It was a simple question, it deserved a straight answer, the fact that you can only reply with another question leads me to believe you don't have an answer!
a simple Q. wrote: Neil, why are pensioners being singled out for special treatment over other members of our society?Actually Labour and the Lib Dems singled out under 7's for free swimming. How can you say thats not age discrimination?
Unfortunately the Lib Dems and Labour couldnt stand the idea of Tories caring more about our vulnerable poeple than themselves.
Furthermore, on a different note, this change of Cabinet will cost the council payers thousands of pounds as stationary, offices etc are changed for what may be a 10 week period of Lib-Lab administration. Another example of wasteful bureaucracy.
Glass house stone, soton says...
5:44pm Thu 21 Feb 08
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:you planks spent £100,000 on a survey for a proposal which didn't happen talk about wasteful bureacracy
a simple Q wrote:I was just pointing out that in the world we live some groups need more help then others - i.e. the vulnerable - pensioners etc. I dont think the fact that some groups are being targeted is the real issue. The Tories simple wanted to help those that really needed it.
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:It was a simple question, it deserved a straight answer, the fact that you can only reply with another question leads me to believe you don't have an answer!
a simple Q. wrote: Neil, why are pensioners being singled out for special treatment over other members of our society?Actually Labour and the Lib Dems singled out under 7's for free swimming. How can you say thats not age discrimination?
Unfortunately the Lib Dems and Labour couldnt stand the idea of Tories caring more about our vulnerable poeple than themselves.
Furthermore, on a different note, this change of Cabinet will cost the council payers thousands of pounds as stationary, offices etc are changed for what may be a 10 week period of Lib-Lab administration. Another example of wasteful bureaucracy.
paula, soton says...
6:16pm Thu 21 Feb 08
What more... wrote:Agree with this posting totally.
Means testing will only ensure that the hard working will pay more tax whilst the layabouts will still pay nothing. I earn decent money and already pay a higher rate of tax, why should I pay yet more for the crap who cannot be bothered to get up in the morning?????
happy_days, Whiteley says...
6:30pm Thu 21 Feb 08
D, Southampton says...
7:14pm Thu 21 Feb 08
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:David, surely if you take your last argument to it's logical conclusion then there is no point changing government at all because of the cost to the taxpayer in replacing everything. Which makes it a pointless argument really. You were a minority administration for a reason.....
a simple Q wrote:I was just pointing out that in the world we live some groups need more help then others - i.e. the vulnerable - pensioners etc. I dont think the fact that some groups are being targeted is the real issue. The Tories simple wanted to help those that really needed it. Unfortunately the Lib Dems and Labour couldnt stand the idea of Tories caring more about our vulnerable poeple than themselves. Furthermore, on a different note, this change of Cabinet will cost the council payers thousands of pounds as stationary, offices etc are changed for what may be a 10 week period of Lib-Lab administration. Another example of wasteful bureaucracy.David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:It was a simple question, it deserved a straight answer, the fact that you can only reply with another question leads me to believe you don't have an answer!a simple Q. wrote: Neil, why are pensioners being singled out for special treatment over other members of our society?Actually Labour and the Lib Dems singled out under 7's for free swimming. How can you say thats not age discrimination?
Honour, Southampton says...
7:39pm Thu 21 Feb 08
It wont be liberal for proping up a bunch of amateurs which call themselfs labour.
I suggest all pensioners do the same.
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne, Southampton says...
10:29pm Thu 21 Feb 08
D wrote:No the point is they should have either done this last May or if they are still able after this Mays elections. However, they know there is a good chance they will lose many seats in May and want a last ditch effort for power.
David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:David, surely if you take your last argument to it's logical conclusion then there is no point changing government at all because of the cost to the taxpayer in replacing everything. Which makes it a pointless argument really. You were a minority administration for a reason.....
a simple Q wrote:I was just pointing out that in the world we live some groups need more help then others - i.e. the vulnerable - pensioners etc. I dont think the fact that some groups are being targeted is the real issue. The Tories simple wanted to help those that really needed it. Unfortunately the Lib Dems and Labour couldnt stand the idea of Tories caring more about our vulnerable poeple than themselves. Furthermore, on a different note, this change of Cabinet will cost the council payers thousands of pounds as stationary, offices etc are changed for what may be a 10 week period of Lib-Lab administration. Another example of wasteful bureaucracy.David Fuller - Conservative Candidate for Bitterne wrote:It was a simple question, it deserved a straight answer, the fact that you can only reply with another question leads me to believe you don't have an answer!a simple Q. wrote: Neil, why are pensioners being singled out for special treatment over other members of our society?Actually Labour and the Lib Dems singled out under 7's for free swimming. How can you say thats not age discrimination?
Pensioner, Soton says...
11:04pm Thu 21 Feb 08
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton wrote:If privatisation by the tories had not come in to play we would not have profit hungry bus companies cutting services for the elderley. The train companies are just as bad. And all by the over rich and indulged tories !!! Oh and how about the over paid councilors & MP NEVER TRUST A Politician!!! co's there all self ....
TV licences and Bus passes aren\'t means tested and cost other tax payers and licence fee payers millions? So why is a discount different?
Sue, Southampton says...
7:18am Fri 22 Feb 08
In this section
- Binmen to spy on your rubbish
- Give us a vote on fluoride
- Police will target yobs
- The cheapest place to live in the South
- Taxi driver fighting for his life after road smash
- Volunteers wanted to trial swine flu vaccine
- Fire wrecks Hampshire gym
- More charges over Arcadia drugs
- School is flying the green flag
- Legal challenge to travellers camp
Sponsored Links
|
|
Local Advertisers
Local Information
Enter your postcode, town or place name
Neil Fitzgerald, Southampton says...
9:01am Thu 21 Feb 08