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City's road network deteriorates despite extra funding
12:39pm Tuesday 1st July 2008
Comments (53)
MOTORISTS and cyclists in Southampton have been told to accept that the city's pothole ravaged roads will continue to deteriorate.
Council chiefs admitted that despite doubling spending on highway repairs from £3m to £6m the state of the roads will get worse - just at a slower rate.
Motoring organisation the AA warned the policy will lead to higher repair costs and compensation claim bills and could increase road casualties.
Ruling Tories said state of the city's roads was a "top priority".
The man responsible for mending them, Cllr Gavin Dick, said the best the cash-strapped council could do was "managed decline" because there was not enough money.
He admitted: "We are not going to improve it."
The council needs £10m just to maintain the present condition of the roads. It says there is already an estimated bill of more than £50m to clear a backlog of repairs.
A survey by the Asphalt Industry Alliance found the average for councils across the country was £7.5m.
After losing out on a £300m bid for Government backed PFI funding to mend the roads over the next 25 years the council is now looking to the private sector to make savings. Cllr Dick said: "The Government is failing to give the council the money the residents of Southampton deserve to fix the roads."
He claimed the council could not borrow more or raid other budgets without it having a "huge detrimental effect on other parts of the council.
Paul Watters, AA head of roads and transport policy, said: "It's not good news for the residents of Southampton.
"If you don't repair the roads it will cost nine times more if they fall to pieces. It's also a worry that sometimes poor road quality can lead to casualties.
"Highways claims can also be counter productive because the council will end up paying more money in compensation than fixing the roads."
Lindsi Bluemel, chairman of the Southampton Cycling Campaign, said: "Poor road surfaces can be especially dangerous to cyclists.
"It's not going to encourage new cyclists onto the roads. If more people were cycling you wouldn't have the damage to the roads."
Tory council leaders last night agreed to try to make efficiency savings by finding a private company to run its highways division under a ten-year deal worth about £140m. It will save the council between £3m and £7m over the course of the contract.
About 150 council staff would transfer to the "partnership".
The move has angered unions and opposition councillors fear local contractors used by the council will lose work.
Mike Tucker, the council's Unison branch secretary, said: "We are disappointed if the only way the council can improve the city highways is to transfer 150 staff out of the council, putting working conditions, pay and pensions at risk."
Cllr Dick said he was also bringing in new ways of recording and prioritising repairs.
The Tory Cabinet also approved an extra £250,000 for pothole repairs bringing its total spending on on-going road repairs to £1.65m this financial year The council is ranked 157th out of 204 local authorities for the number of potholes it has filled.
- See today's Daily Echo for the full story
Your Say YourDaily Echo
Southampton Sh1tty Council, says...
9:31am Tue 1 Jul 08
Westonite, says...
9:38am Tue 1 Jul 08
Highway Engineer, says...
9:38am Tue 1 Jul 08
Go to portsmouth which Highways are run by Colas, they are resurfacing nearly every road.
There roads are miles better.
Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?
mr.southampton, Southampton says...
9:46am Tue 1 Jul 08
Highway Engineer, says...
9:52am Tue 1 Jul 08
Go to portsmouth which Highways are run by Colas, they are resurfacing nearly every road.
There roads are miles better.
Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?
Highway Lowdown, says...
10:28am Tue 1 Jul 08
Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?
There is a possibility that the running of speed cameras could be handed over to the local authority in the future. Good idea huh??
slightly annoyed, soton says...
10:39am Tue 1 Jul 08
jon, soton says...
10:49am Tue 1 Jul 08
yarp, yarp says...
10:55am Tue 1 Jul 08
Highway Engineer wrote:I hate to agree but skateland is becoming better all round!
Get a PFI scheme now Southampton!!
Go to portsmouth which Highways are run by Colas, they are resurfacing nearly every road.
There roads are miles better.
Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?
Family man, Bitterne says...
11:19am Tue 1 Jul 08
yarp wrote:Sorry to say but in my experience PFI simply does not work in the long term. PFI contracts are very much written around targets, and a fairly narrow range of targets at that. The public sector as a whole has a lamentable record for negotiating contracts with the private sector...and it should not be forgotten that the private sector is in it to make a profit. In concentrating on targets (which are all to often those elements that are capable of measurement and are therefore usually quantitative rather than qualititive), it is inevitable that other "quality" issues that a service would provide "in the round" become neglected. You only have to look at the police and the NHS to see the effect of targets to realise the damage that an obsession with targets can cause. Plus of course, once the PFI initiative fails, and eventually comes up for renewal, any expertise or infrastructure that would support the re-inhousing of a service has been dispersed or thrown away...and that is when the PFI companies have you very firmly over a barrel.
Highway Engineer wrote: Get a PFI scheme now Southampton!! Go to portsmouth which Highways are run by Colas, they are resurfacing nearly every road. There roads are miles better. Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?I hate to agree but skateland is becoming better all round!
Whatisthiscountrycom
ingto, Southampton says...
11:21am Tue 1 Jul 08
slightly annoyed wrote:- And dont forget the poor teenage mums that stupidly get pregnant or make themselves pregnant so they dont have to get a job. They need a house or flat paid for by the hard working people of the country, to bring up their their little darlings so that 15 years later they can repeat the process.
"Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?" Because they are using the money to pay for two illegal wars, feathering countless nests by way of expenses and pensions, spending billions on hair-brained schemes in the name of anti-terrorism, paying for countless scroungers on sickness and incapacity benefit, coughing up great lumps of cash for the EU -DO YOU WANT MORE??
gorf, soton says...
11:32am Tue 1 Jul 08
do they have to pay our road tax?
I think its wrong i have to pay for others to wreck it with cars that are not fit for the british roads.
paul b, says...
11:40am Tue 1 Jul 08
gorf wrote:Do you pay to use roads when you go abroad?
What happens when all these polish, latvian, german, french etc cars and big artics come over here......
do they have to pay our road tax?
I think its wrong i have to pay for others to wreck it with cars that are not fit for the british roads.
Hermaphrodite Harry, says...
12:14pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Whatisthiscountrycomingto wrote:How exactly does a teenage mum make herself pregnant?
slightly annoyed wrote:- And dont forget the poor teenage mums that stupidly get pregnant or make themselves pregnant so they dont have to get a job. They need a house or flat paid for by the hard working people of the country, to bring up their their little darlings so that 15 years later they can repeat the process.
"Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?" Because they are using the money to pay for two illegal wars, feathering countless nests by way of expenses and pensions, spending billions on hair-brained schemes in the name of anti-terrorism, paying for countless scroungers on sickness and incapacity benefit, coughing up great lumps of cash for the EU -DO YOU WANT MORE??
Bob, says...
12:24pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Hermaphrodite Harry wrote:Sleeps with a munter.
Whatisthiscountrycomingto wrote:How exactly does a teenage mum make herself pregnant?slightly annoyed wrote: "Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?" Because they are using the money to pay for two illegal wars, feathering countless nests by way of expenses and pensions, spending billions on hair-brained schemes in the name of anti-terrorism, paying for countless scroungers on sickness and incapacity benefit, coughing up great lumps of cash for the EU -DO YOU WANT MORE??- And dont forget the poor teenage mums that stupidly get pregnant or make themselves pregnant so they dont have to get a job. They need a house or flat paid for by the hard working people of the country, to bring up their their little darlings so that 15 years later they can repeat the process.
mr.southampton, Southampton says...
12:58pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Family man wrote:Couldn't agree more, PFI's and various public/private partnerships present serious long term problems, unfortunately Local Authourities and Central Government are only capable of short-term thinking.
yarp wrote:Sorry to say but in my experience PFI simply does not work in the long term. PFI contracts are very much written around targets, and a fairly narrow range of targets at that. The public sector as a whole has a lamentable record for negotiating contracts with the private sector...and it should not be forgotten that the private sector is in it to make a profit. In concentrating on targets (which are all to often those elements that are capable of measurement and are therefore usually quantitative rather than qualititive), it is inevitable that other "quality" issues that a service would provide "in the round" become neglected. You only have to look at the police and the NHS to see the effect of targets to realise the damage that an obsession with targets can cause. Plus of course, once the PFI initiative fails, and eventually comes up for renewal, any expertise or infrastructure that would support the re-inhousing of a service has been dispersed or thrown away...and that is when the PFI companies have you very firmly over a barrel.Highway Engineer wrote: Get a PFI scheme now Southampton!! Go to portsmouth which Highways are run by Colas, they are resurfacing nearly every road. There roads are miles better. Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?I hate to agree but skateland is becoming better all round!
Chester Drawers, southampton says...
1:39pm Tue 1 Jul 08
This is a temporary problem of course because it won't be long before the holes get so big that all of us who can no longer afford to drive anymore can dump our redundant vehicles in the holes for the rest to drive over.
God bless Southampton City Council
Steve, Bitterne says...
1:58pm Tue 1 Jul 08
dorothy, kansas says...
1:59pm Tue 1 Jul 08
mr.southampton wrote:The road wasn't touched in portswood it was the pavements
Sometimes the City Council can't be blamed, look at Portswood, brand new road and along come the Gas company to dig the whole thing up!
Lynne, Lockerly says...
2:01pm Tue 1 Jul 08
southy, redbridge says...
2:16pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Lynne wrote:lynne the rot started back in the 1980's,when main goverment dictacted to local goverment,what it can and can not do, like how and where to spend public money,local council not even allowed to build council houses to replace the ones that was sold to tennets,let alone say a new ice rink,it all has to go to private sector and not state,derick hatten had the right idea,that was to say no to main goverment other councils should of followed his lead.
Well i know this much what should be approximately a 20-30 minute drive from where i live turns into more like an hour or mores drive. Most of this due to the fact that there are so many traffic lights and speed restrictions (not that you could go much faster than you wanted to. I haven't choose to go into Southampton for shopping for such a long time. This use to be one of my main shopping areas, but no more i find getting onto the motorway and going to Portsmouth much quicker and easier. We as a family also choose to go there for a day out it has such alot more to offer especially with their waterfront. I find it unbelievable how Southampton Council who are so happy to take their peoples money yet never seems to listen to what the people are crying out for. After all it's not like it's just been neglected the last few weeks or months this has now been going on for years. Southampton if run properly could have a lot more going for it where not on local people benefit but those that may live outside the area. I also would like to add that grown up from a child Southampton was always the place we would visit, shop go to the local parks, ice rink etc. Now it's like a place i hardly know.How many more people feel the same i wonder???
Denzil, says...
3:12pm Tue 1 Jul 08
gorf wrote:Yawn.
What happens when all these polish, latvian, german, french etc cars and big artics come over here...... do they have to pay our road tax? I think its wrong i have to pay for others to wreck it with cars that are not fit for the british roads.
When here they pay fuel tax. That helps pay for their use of our roads.
You need to get out more.
southy, redbridge says...
3:24pm Tue 1 Jul 08
road tax is not for roads its use is for making guns tanks warships ect.road tax was interduce to raise money duing time of war, its one of the last things left over from WWII
Glassy Knoll, Bassett, Southampton says...
3:25pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Westonite wrote:I live in Bassett, the roads and pavements there are also in a terrible state of repair. Maybe I live in the wrong part of Bassett but I can't remember seeing any smooth as glass roads and/or pavements I will, however, keep an eye open for them - when it gets icy they could serve as a substitute ice rink.
The roads around Weston estate havn\'t been touched in years and are in a right state. I expect with a Tory council, that trend will continue. Why spend money in a council estate when you can have smooth as glass roads and pavements in Bassett?
a, Soton says...
3:42pm Tue 1 Jul 08
gorf, soton says...
3:55pm Tue 1 Jul 08
JillyBee, Portswoood says...
4:55pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Highway Engineer wrote:One of the big problems with PFIs is that they are based on the credit card principle - Yes, you can have it now, but you will pay crippling rates of interest for it, just about forever (no, you can't just pay it off quickly).
Get a PFI scheme now Southampton!! Go to portsmouth which Highways are run by Colas, they are resurfacing nearly every road. There roads are miles better. Also why doesnt the goverment spend speed camera money and car tax on the roads?
You'll pay far more for it in the long run, and will still be paying long after the work is worn out and needs doing again, but the government hopes you won't notice this when you sign up for it. Hospitals and schools are being built on this principle too - it just commits the next generation to massive debts for work that will probably have collapsed years earlier. It's a bit like buying a house on your Barclaycard, instead of getting a mortgage.
Still, at least someone makes lots of money out of it, so that's okay!
Oleg, Southampton says...
5:02pm Tue 1 Jul 08
ever) taxation.
The state of the roads in Southampton IS appalling though. Is there a worse road than Stanton Road in Freemantle? You'd expect better in a third world country. On the rare occasions when potholes are "patched" up, they've fallen apart again within 3 months. Is there any quality control procedure?
It seems to be "save a penny, spend a pound later". I fear the same is true of PFI, which seems attractive in the short term but costs the taxpayer dearly in the long run.
Skeptik, soton says...
5:36pm Tue 1 Jul 08
The Roads and Finance act 1921. Was when the tax disc was introduced. Just a tad before the second world war. Do try and get something right old chap !
Graham Fielder, Eastleigh says...
5:38pm Tue 1 Jul 08
a wrote:Council will only pay up if you take the b*****d's to court with photographic evidence and measurements of holes etc.....
Compensation will rise. Ths council never pays compensation against damage caused. I have had numerous bike punctures, nothing. I have had one car tyre shredded and a wishbone bent. The arguement is you can\'t prove it was out pot hole! They will continue to pay nothing
They are all too busy working out there expenses!
Lux, soton says...
5:39pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Condor Man, Southampton says...
5:50pm Tue 1 Jul 08
If you live in Thornhill you have massive grounds to complain, the roads are of 3rd world quality. So much for the £49m dividend.
Skeptik, soton says...
5:55pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Skip Rat, Southampton says...
6:12pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Also, can you imagine the cost of motoring in 10 years time???.........
paul b, says...
6:35pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Westonite wrote:Because people in basset pay your benefits
The roads around Weston estate havn't been touched in years and are in a right state. I expect with a Tory council, that trend will continue. Why spend money in a council estate when you can have smooth as glass roads and pavements in Bassett?
Unitarian, Southampton says...
7:54pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Today, some of the side roads in Southampton do not even compare with the newly reconstructed main roads in Romania and Hungary - certainly the road in which I live leaves a lot to be desired - dont use traffic calming measures or 20 mph speed limits - they are not necessary - the pot holes do the job instead and slow down some of the traffic
Gloria Hole, southampton says...
8:35pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Denzil wrote:Denzil , fuel tax is used in many ways but not on the roads.
gorf wrote: What happens when all these polish, latvian, german, french etc cars and big artics come over here...... do they have to pay our road tax? I think its wrong i have to pay for others to wreck it with cars that are not fit for the british roads.Yawn. When here they pay fuel tax. That helps pay for their use of our roads. You need to get out more.
when british trucks drive in the Benelux countrys we buy a euro'vingrete tax disc for the length of your trip and this is a tax/payment to these countrys for there roads.
we need to introduce this for foriegn trucks that come here.
you need to get the facts right. and maybe then get out more.
Gloria Hole, southampton says...
8:35pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Denzil wrote:Denzil , fuel tax is used in many ways but not on the roads.
gorf wrote: What happens when all these polish, latvian, german, french etc cars and big artics come over here...... do they have to pay our road tax? I think its wrong i have to pay for others to wreck it with cars that are not fit for the british roads.Yawn. When here they pay fuel tax. That helps pay for their use of our roads. You need to get out more.
when british trucks drive in the Benelux countrys we buy a euro'vingrete tax disc for the length of your trip and this is a tax/payment to these countrys for there roads.
we need to introduce this for foriegn trucks that come here.
you need to get the facts right. and maybe then get out more.
Bob444, Southampton says...
8:54pm Tue 1 Jul 08
They obviously didn't learn the lesson under thatcher, that tories will just privatise, privatise, privatise.
They always help their greedy business friends to get even richer.
southy, redbridge says...
9:09pm Tue 1 Jul 08
Skeptik wrote:what happen in 1919 to 1922 skeptik.check your history,and you will see that britian was intending to sending troops to russia to help out the white army.check out out southampton personal history there was a revolt here with the troops.if you what to see the 3rd tax disc in the first year it came out 1940 sept you can find it at a garage near borrowbridge in somerset.the 1921 act was for the first fuel tax not road tax
Southy your ability to get things wrong is astounding:
The Roads and Finance act 1921. Was when the tax disc was introduced. Just a tad before the second world war. Do try and get something right old chap !
sotonian, southampton says...
10:42pm Tue 1 Jul 08
wild bill, millbrook hous est says...
12:19am Wed 2 Jul 08
Skeptik wrote:skeptik I think you need to say your sorry to southy m8.because he right.I check on that act that you posted,there was one for N/Ireland and one for Australia,but not for England.How ever there was a levy for automobils graded fuel,this was to stop it being use for any thing else but for cars.cant have the rich people running out of fuel for there cars could we.so you need to get it right old chap skeptik.
Southy your ability to get things wrong is astounding:
The Roads and Finance act 1921. Was when the tax disc was introduced. Just a tad before the second world war. Do try and get something right old chap !
Skeptik, soton says...
5:09am Wed 2 Jul 08
DRiver, soton says...
5:20am Wed 2 Jul 08
Law, soton says...
5:30am Wed 2 Jul 08
1920, soton says...
7:31am Wed 2 Jul 08
k and leek on them, this was replaced in 1951 with the large Expiry date. Easy to look up, 1920 Roads and Finance Act - National Motor museum.
Pothole City, Shirley says...
8:02am Wed 2 Jul 08
They are doing roads works (pavements) on Shirley High street but still lots of broken paving further along by the shops and Iceland
Yet they can re surface Howard Road replace all the street lightning kerb stones replace the pavements and roads surface when its finish its a good job until the Gas board comes along and digs up around 30 holes + we have two building plots houses knocked down to build flats which mean more holes .
When these holes are filled in its just a matter of time before that starts to sink.
Why can the council not sort this mess out and get the utilities companys to do any works before replacing the road surface and wasting our money.
They are probably over spending on London Road by putting this horrible grey paving down.
Council has no idea at all
southy, redbridge says...
11:37am Wed 2 Jul 08
southy, redbridge says...
11:41am Wed 2 Jul 08
1920 wrote:dont look at the motor museum,but look in goverment white papers all the info is there not part.plus i think you find that your on about vehicle licence tax, there's a small diffrence between the 2
Yes the 1920 Act states - Duty Paid for the use of The Kings Highway, implemented 1921. Therefore a road fund licence, with annually changed coloured discs, the orginal had the thistle,rose,shamroc
k and leek on them, this was replaced in 1951 with the large Expiry date. Easy to look up, 1920 Roads and Finance Act - National Motor museum.
Captain Birdseye, Soton says...
5:52pm Wed 2 Jul 08
Either the government gives Soton the money or the council tax will have to go up through the roof.
Are you all happy to pay more council tax or to have cuts in other services????
skeptik, soton says...
6:16pm Wed 2 Jul 08
1, weapons for WW11
2. The bolshevik revolution !
Look in Hansard the act states quite clearly that revenue will not be used in the general tax fund, but will be used for the betterment of the nations roads. But hey, keep up the good work , you must be the best recruiting sergeant the torys' have got. The information in the museum and the artefacts are there as a result of government legislation. Unless of course you believe Hansard is not recording the business of parliament truthfully.
southy, redbridge says...
9:10pm Wed 2 Jul 08
vehicle licence tax is a little bit diffrent to road tax,and in 1921 there still was to many toll roads to make it worth while to have a road tax.
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Sue, Southampton says...
9:31am Tue 1 Jul 08