Well there you go, right back where we started, and this recent eruption of hype was totally without any basis. Instead of the pro-skating campaigners going round the same old loop again perhaps they (or the Echo) can tell us which existing services should be cut to provide the subsidy for an ice rink, or shall we all continue to live in a grownups Lets Pretend land where nothing has to be paid for?

Perhaps we need to remind brick and co of my suggested tag line.

"We have business plan and a developer, can you help us find a site please?”

It appears that after 20 years the pressure group has managed to pull off the great coup of repeating the same plan of action that failed 20 years ago ( a petition and a march).

Perhaps now they need to put forward a rational plan and not a shouted demand with out substance.

If they could do this they would have my support, but they have failed to take the challenge of getting 50 people per week to take a coach to Basingstoke ice rink as a means of demonstrating demand.

So what happened to the thousands of supporters that last weeks Echo claimed would be there then?
The whole thing is a wast of time & energy. Just ask the investors that lost a fortune in Poole and Bournemouth.

live local, southampton there is land that could be used, test playing fields on the west side of the M271 next to the echo office
Sunny Saint they was there in name 5000 to 0,tower park ice rink at poole makes a very large profit there is no lost

southy wrote:
live local, southampton there is land that could be used, test playing fields on the west side of the M271 next to the echo office
Sunny Saint they was there in name 5000 to 0,tower park ice rink at poole makes a very large profit there is no lost

No, Southy, it isn't 5000-0. As I said on another story, there wasn't any petition for people against the idea. Stop making up statistics for this proven dead duck

George on it is 0 till the no vote can get of there butt and start a no petition it is simple really 5000 to 0

the ice rink at poole is in the same complex tower park,i know i take people there once a 1 mth,
the ice rink in bornmouth was closed down when tower park ice rink open up there was agreement between the 2 councils to have the one to service both areas because the one in bornmouth a developer wanted the land for building homes.the site do not list all that is there like it only say about the 1 swimming pool but there is 2 swimming pools there

the land next to the echo office can only be used for leisure and sports.it was part of the agreement when the gas works handed over this land to the city parks&greens and sports grounds.homes and industrial can not be built on this land

Why don't these people use some common sense. Its simple, not gunna be built as there is not enough money to be be made out of it. Bet even the campaigners would only use it once a month tops. All our land is gunna be used for flats and hotels as thats what developers make money from. Its up to the council to stop this but ofcourse our council have extremely low asperations. Unfortunate but true.

public transport links.are all ready in place redbridge train station a bout a 300 mt walk (location south of the land)main bus routes coming in from the west and north west,bus stop is only about 150 mts south of the land.motorway turn off points lordshill junction or redbridge roundabout.theres all ready eletric,gas,water and sewage mains very close by (with in 50 feet)a ice rink here could service the whole of southampton and take in areas like salisbury fordingbridge east of ringwood and east of christchurch.
there are all ready a few developers about that are willing to build an ice rink

southy wrote:
George on it is 0 till the no vote can get of there butt and start a no petition it is simple really 5000 to 0

Utter nonsense

I see the neggies are back with their sniping remarks because they know jack.

British Army Blades 3
Southampton Vikings 7

Read it and weep guys, we never give up.

Good on you southy, let em' have it.

George wrote:

southy wrote:
George on it is 0 till the no vote can get of there butt and start a no petition it is simple really 5000 to 0

Utter nonsense

Go on George, take up the challenge and lets see what support you get.

George 0
USS 5000

THE BRICK wrote:
I see the neggies are back with their sniping remarks because they know jack.

British Army Blades 3
Southampton Vikings 7

Read it and weep guys, we never give up.

Good on you southy, let em' have it.

Read it and weep? Read what and weep? If you seriously think that the result of some game is more meaningful to your campaign than the actual facts of the matter, you're utterly blind. Your demands were not met. Read THAT and weep

George wrote:

southy wrote:
live local, southampton there is land that could be used, test playing fields on the west side of the M271 next to the echo office
Sunny Saint they was there in name 5000 to 0,tower park ice rink at poole makes a very large profit there is no lost

No, Southy, it isn't 5000-0. As I said on another story, there wasn't any petition for people against the idea. Stop making up statistics for this proven dead duck

Georges duck has been killed, plucked, cooked and eaten.

Still a big fat zero whatever way you want to see it.

5000+ to USS

listen wrote:
Why don\'t these people use some common sense. Its simple, not gunna be built as there is not enough money to be be made out of it. Bet even the campaigners would only use it once a month tops. All our land is gunna be used for flats and hotels as thats what developers make money from. Its up to the council to stop this but ofcourse our council have extremely low asperations. Unfortunate but true.

this is true its called short term thinking and the quick buck.
we got to many hotels now and i not heard of one yet that has been filled up even for 1 day.there houses flats and apartments in southampton that can not be sold some places have been empty for 6 plus more years.
and george its up to the no voters to start there own petition,not the yes voters to do it for them 5000 to 0

George wrote:

THE BRICK wrote:
I see the neggies are back with their sniping remarks because they know jack.

British Army Blades 3
Southampton Vikings 7

Read it and weep guys, we never give up.

Good on you southy, let em' have it.

Read it and weep? Read what and weep? If you seriously think that the result of some game is more meaningful to your campaign than the actual facts of the matter, you're utterly blind. Your demands were not met. Read THAT and weep

You know nothing about the campaign except what you read in the media, little do you really know what is happenning.

Hahaha, keep taking the pills George.

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:
live local, southampton there is land that could be used, test playing fields on the west side of the M271 next to the echo office
Sunny Saint they was there in name 5000 to 0,tower park ice rink at poole makes a very large profit there is no lost

No, Southy, it isn't 5000-0. As I said on another story, there wasn't any petition for people against the idea. Stop making up statistics for this proven dead duck

Georges duck has been killed, plucked, cooked and eaten.

Still a big fat zero whatever way you want to see it.

5000+ to USS

Then why has your idea been turned down by the council? Sorry, you're making yourself out to be an utter buffoon now. Claiming some victory when your campaign has quite clearly failed just proves that you had no idea what you were talking about in the first place. How is it 5000-0? That would suggest that there are only 5000 people in the city.

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

THE BRICK wrote:
I see the neggies are back with their sniping remarks because they know jack.

British Army Blades 3
Southampton Vikings 7

Read it and weep guys, we never give up.

Good on you southy, let em' have it.

Read it and weep? Read what and weep? If you seriously think that the result of some game is more meaningful to your campaign than the actual facts of the matter, you're utterly blind. Your demands were not met. Read THAT and weep

You know nothing about the campaign except what you read in the media, little do you really know what is happenning.

Hahaha, keep taking the pills George.

Oh, so one of Southampton's other city councils is going ahead with the idea, are they? You've failed with this stage, you might be able to find a private developer interested, but there's little point coming on here rubbishing everybody for saying this hasn't worked, when they're clearly right

Keep taking your own pills, the ones that blind you to bare facts

southy wrote:

listen wrote:
Why don\'t these people use some common sense. Its simple, not gunna be built as there is not enough money to be be made out of it. Bet even the campaigners would only use it once a month tops. All our land is gunna be used for flats and hotels as thats what developers make money from. Its up to the council to stop this but ofcourse our council have extremely low asperations. Unfortunate but true.

this is true its called short term thinking and the quick buck.
we got to many hotels now and i not heard of one yet that has been filled up even for 1 day.there houses flats and apartments in southampton that can not be sold some places have been empty for 6 plus more years.
and george its up to the no voters to start there own petition,not the yes voters to do it for them 5000 to 0

No, it isn't up to the "no" voters to start their own petition. They've already got their way, the council will not be building an ice rink. I don't know how to simplify it any further. If the "no" voters have "lost", where is the ice rink they failed to prevent?

Jesus, these people are behaving like utter morons. Claiming victory in the face of a total defeat

george the council has not turn it down at all its just that the developers who want to build an ice rink are beening out bid at the auction for land,
5000-0

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:
George on it is 0 till the no vote can get of there butt and start a no petition it is simple really 5000 to 0

Utter nonsense

Go on George, take up the challenge and lets see what support you get.

George 0
USS 5000

What's the point in me actively campaigning for something that

a) I don't want to happen
b) Has already happened

?

You fail to remember that I actually would like an ice rink, I just don't think it's going to happen. Plus, this story clearly states the council have said no. Me campaigning after the fact would be even more pointless than you ranting repeatedly that 5000 people out of 200,000 is a "majority"

Fool

southy wrote:
george the council has not turn it down at all its just that the developers who want to build an ice rink are beening out bid at the auction for land,
5000-0

Question: is the council going to build you an ice rink? Answer yes or no, don't bleat on about what you think should happen, or present false evidence to prove that the actual outcome is a figment of our imaginations. Is the council building you an ice rink or not?

George wrote:

southy wrote:

listen wrote:
Why don\'t these people use some common sense. Its simple, not gunna be built as there is not enough money to be be made out of it. Bet even the campaigners would only use it once a month tops. All our land is gunna be used for flats and hotels as thats what developers make money from. Its up to the council to stop this but ofcourse our council have extremely low asperations. Unfortunate but true.

this is true its called short term thinking and the quick buck.
we got to many hotels now and i not heard of one yet that has been filled up even for 1 day.there houses flats and apartments in southampton that can not be sold some places have been empty for 6 plus more years.
and george its up to the no voters to start there own petition,not the yes voters to do it for them 5000 to 0

No, it isn't up to the "no" voters to start their own petition. They've already got their way, the council will not be building an ice rink. I don't know how to simplify it any further. If the "no" voters have "lost", where is the ice rink they failed to prevent?

Jesus, these people are behaving like utter morons. Claiming victory in the face of a total defeat

Yeah, thanks for the insult. The 'morons' got over 5000 supporters and a great hockey game which they won against the Army,

George still has a big fat has zero

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:

listen wrote:
Why don\'t these people use some common sense. Its simple, not gunna be built as there is not enough money to be be made out of it. Bet even the campaigners would only use it once a month tops. All our land is gunna be used for flats and hotels as thats what developers make money from. Its up to the council to stop this but ofcourse our council have extremely low asperations. Unfortunate but true.

this is true its called short term thinking and the quick buck.
we got to many hotels now and i not heard of one yet that has been filled up even for 1 day.there houses flats and apartments in southampton that can not be sold some places have been empty for 6 plus more years.
and george its up to the no voters to start there own petition,not the yes voters to do it for them 5000 to 0

No, it isn't up to the "no" voters to start their own petition. They've already got their way, the council will not be building an ice rink. I don't know how to simplify it any further. If the "no" voters have "lost", where is the ice rink they failed to prevent?

Jesus, these people are behaving like utter morons. Claiming victory in the face of a total defeat

Yeah, thanks for the insult. The 'morons' got over 5000 supporters and a great hockey game which they won against the Army,

George still has a big fat has zero

This just proves how utterly and hopelessly confused you are on this issue. That your team won a game is good - well done, sincerely - but it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your campaign. What are you missing? If I said I scored over 50,000,000 on Donkey Kong last night (I didn't) would that have any bearing?

Trying to convince me that you've "won" something shows once more you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and that you have only a slender grasp on reality

I can't be bothered to sit and "argue" with you all day (doubtless you'll claim that's "a victory" and it's because I "know" I've been beaten) because the bottom line is, you've failed. It's flattering that my agreement with you would carry more weight than the actual result itself, but seriously, stop kidding yourself

George doesn't have a big fat zero. He's unaffected by the result. End of story

George wrote:

southy wrote:
george the council has not turn it down at all its just that the developers who want to build an ice rink are beening out bid at the auction for land,
5000-0

Question: is the council going to build you an ice rink? Answer yes or no, don't bleat on about what you think should happen, or present false evidence to prove that the actual outcome is a figment of our imaginations. Is the council building you an ice rink or not?

george the council dont build them they just give planing permission.and they have giving an out line permission a few times to developers if they can aquire the land

southy wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:
george the council has not turn it down at all its just that the developers who want to build an ice rink are beening out bid at the auction for land,
5000-0

Question: is the council going to build you an ice rink? Answer yes or no, don't bleat on about what you think should happen, or present false evidence to prove that the actual outcome is a figment of our imaginations. Is the council building you an ice rink or not?

george the council dont build them they just give planing permission.and they have giving an out line permission a few times to developers if they can aquire the land

So not only do you make up statistics, you are also unable to answer a simple yes/no question. Are you an MP?

George wrote:

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:
George on it is 0 till the no vote can get of there butt and start a no petition it is simple really 5000 to 0

Utter nonsense

Go on George, take up the challenge and lets see what support you get.

George 0
USS 5000

What's the point in me actively campaigning for something that

a) I don't want to happen
b) Has already happened

?

You fail to remember that I actually would like an ice rink, I just don't think it's going to happen. Plus, this story clearly states the council have said no. Me campaigning after the fact would be even more pointless than you ranting repeatedly that 5000 people out of 200,000 is a "majority"

Fool

Another insult, and the 'majority' is your invention, your perception.

Still a zero compared to our 5000+ oh and our 7 goals that was hard fought for by the Mighty Southampton Vikings.

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:
George on it is 0 till the no vote can get of there butt and start a no petition it is simple really 5000 to 0

Utter nonsense

Go on George, take up the challenge and lets see what support you get.

George 0
USS 5000

What's the point in me actively campaigning for something that

a) I don't want to happen
b) Has already happened

?

You fail to remember that I actually would like an ice rink, I just don't think it's going to happen. Plus, this story clearly states the council have said no. Me campaigning after the fact would be even more pointless than you ranting repeatedly that 5000 people out of 200,000 is a "majority"

Fool

Another insult, and the 'majority' is your invention, your perception.

Still a zero compared to our 5000+ oh and our 7 goals that was hard fought for by the Mighty Southampton Vikings.

Idiotic beyond belief, to be honest. Give up, you clealy live in cloud cuckoo land. The result of your game is 100% irrelevant.

*shakes head in disbelief that this person can even do their own shoelaces up*

goerge it do not matter if i was a mp or not mp's can only give support,its down to the local planning dept

George wrote:

southy wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:
george the council has not turn it down at all its just that the developers who want to build an ice rink are beening out bid at the auction for land,
5000-0

Question: is the council going to build you an ice rink? Answer yes or no, don't bleat on about what you think should happen, or present false evidence to prove that the actual outcome is a figment of our imaginations. Is the council building you an ice rink or not?

george the council dont build them they just give planing permission.and they have giving an out line permission a few times to developers if they can aquire the land

So not only do you make up statistics, you are also unable to answer a simple yes/no question. Are you an MP?

Gerogie, we have NEVER asked the council to build us an ice rink. Your perception that only you believe. The petition said QUOTE call upon the Southampton City Council to actively seek and assist interested parties in developing a new ice rink without any further delay
UNQUOTE That means go and invite developers and help them with an application to build a rink.

George 0

goerge look in the echo item dated 9:37am Wednesday 20th August 2008 head line;Council resolute over East Park
there a little bit
from this item
Despite initial estimates that the deal would be wrapped up in a couple of months, the council is still negotiatingwith a housebuilder, understood to be Lovell, more than a year after it won an auction for the site - beating a bid from local developers to build an £80m ice rink complex there.

so goerge its not made up statistics the statistics are there if you read it all and not just part whitch seems alot of people do on this site
5000-0

southy wrote:
goerge look in the echo item dated 9:37am Wednesday 20th August 2008 head line;Council resolute over East Park
there a little bit
from this item
Despite initial estimates that the deal would be wrapped up in a couple of months, the council is still negotiatingwith a housebuilder, understood to be Lovell, more than a year after it won an auction for the site - beating a bid from local developers to build an £80m ice rink complex there.

Dead right southy, Colin Warburg was the developer and that just goes to show that the council are the ones opposing development not the developers.

George -0
Southy 5000+

and he not the only one that been getting out bid at the auction by house builders

southy wrote:
and he not the only one that been getting out bid at the auction by house builders

The petition is still on the website if you are interested and they are still being sent to the council.

www.southampton-viki
ngs.co.uk

southy wrote:
the ice rink at poole is in the same complex tower park,i know i take people there once a 1 mth, the ice rink in bornmouth was closed down when tower park ice rink open up there was agreement between the 2 councils to have the one to service both areas because the one in bornmouth a developer wanted the land for building homes.the site do not list all that is there like it only say about the 1 swimming pool but there is 2 swimming pools there

The ice rink at Tower Park closed years ago and was replaced by the Bingo!!! You should pay more attention when you are there "every month!" see :http://www.towerpar
kcentre.co.uk for more info.

you mean the gala bingo they have the same building has the littlewoods bingo hall that was there it just change names that all you need to go down there and see what is there 2 swimming pools there site only say theres one there also a skittle allys a out door fun park with swings and roundabout ect that site only list a small amount thats there

George wrote:

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

THE BRICK wrote:

George wrote:

southy wrote:
George on it is 0 till the no vote can get of there butt and start a no petition it is simple really 5000 to 0

Utter nonsense

Go on George, take up the challenge and lets see what support you get.

George 0
USS 5000

What\'s the point in me actively campaigning for something that

a) I don\'t want to happen
b) Has already happened

?

You fail to remember that I actually would like an ice rink, I just don\'t think it\'s going to happen. Plus, this story clearly states the council have said no. Me campaigning after the fact would be even more pointless than you ranting repeatedly that 5000 people out of 200,000 is a \"majority\"

Fool

Another insult, and the \'majority\' is your invention, your perception.

Still a zero compared to our 5000+ oh and our 7 goals that was hard fought for by the Mighty Southampton Vikings.

Idiotic beyond belief, to be honest. Give up, you clealy live in cloud cuckoo land. The result of your game is 100% irrelevant.

*shakes head in disbelief that this person can even do their own shoelaces up*

Nice humour!

"Buffoon" living in "Cloud Cuckoo Land" aptly fits both "Southy" and "The Brick".

The Council's response to the futile campaign and dodgy petition numbers has finally exposed these two to be 100% idiots.

Below is a copy of my two latest postings about these silly campaigners. I dont intend allowing them to exasperate me with any more of their nonsense, so I will not post again on this topic. Enjoyed your many contributions.

--------------

"THE BRICK wrote:
Thank you for your comments. The online campaign will continue. USS have the commitment and the documentary evidence that the council has been given is far more relevant than can be divulged on a public forum.

THE BRICK is not looking for support from this or any other forum, just answering the points put across from the opposition.

Our support is solid.

The result of the reunion hockey game was British Army Blades 3 Southampton Vikings 7

Enough said"

-------------
Contributor wrote:
"Your latest contribution indicates you are critically holed below the water line. Abandon ship. Salvage what dignity you can and swim for the shore. Plant a white flag in the sand then drag your bedraggled frame and tattered juvenile campaign flag home. There, put your feet up and watch skating on TV. You deserve a rest from public pronouncements. Your final action should be to murmur quietly to yourself, over and over: " I lost. It was a valiant campaign, but I lost. Now I must do the honourable thing and desist from further boring people rigid." Cup a hand to an ear and, like listening to a conch shell, you'll hear the rising crescendo of the local populace chanting : " Hurrah!!! ""

--------------

Contributor wrote:
"The Lost Cause Brigade, of wishful thinkers, consistently try to blind with warm fuzzy anecdotal stuff or cite 100% incorrect facts. Totally ignoring reality they bounce back from whatever rational, intelligent, irrefutable, indisputable observations you put in front of them. Heavily into denial and deaf to reason, they will sorely try your patience! I'm not sure they are worth the effort, as they appear to cast themselves as die-hard lemmings. "

Contributor at lest we keep to one name and not many to hide behide.
the no brigade need to get out to others towns and citys to see what they got

Contributor wrote:
"The Lost Cause Brigade, of wishful thinkers, consistently try to blind with warm fuzzy anecdotal stuff or cite 100% incorrect facts. Totally ignoring reality they bounce back from whatever rational, intelligent, irrefutable, indisputable observations you put in front of them. Heavily into denial and deaf to reason, they will sorely try your patience! I'm not sure they are worth the effort, as they appear to cast themselves as die-hard lemmings. "

George, goodbye, and thanks for all the fish.

Southy please explain 1
Source
http://en.wikipedia.

org/wiki/Tower_Park
Tower Park is a leisure complex in Poole, Dorset, England. It was one of the first complexes of its kind when it opened in 1989, and it still continues to attract thousands of people from throughout the area. It is named after the large concrete water tower that sits at the top of the hill on which the complex is built. The complex is owned by X-Leisure who own twenty similar sites across the UK.
The site's main attractions include Splashdown - a waterpark boasting 12 slides, and Bowlplex - a 24 lane bowling alley previously known as Megabowl. The bowling centre has had a £1.25m regeneration, with the introduction of many of Bowlplex's sub brands including The Pool Pit and Video-World. There is also a Gala Bingo venue and a cinema with ten screens which was formerly owned by UCI, but as a result of a ruling by the Office of Fair Trading concerning the merger of UCI and Odeon Cinemas the theatre was sold to Empire Cinemas. There is also a video arcade and numerous restaurants, fast food outlets and free parking facilities. The complex's Burger King restraunt was rebuilt in 2005 after it was burnt down following an arson attack. Also onsite is a Tesco Extra which has its own parking facilities. There was formerly an ice rink at Tower Park called 'Ice Trax' but this was replaced by Gala Bingo in the mid 1990s.
Southy 2
Richmond ice rink London
Source
http://www.twickenha

m-museum.org.uk/deta

il.asp?ContentID=336



The rink was sold to a property developer in 1978, who kept it running until 1987, when it was bought by another property company – the London and Edinburgh Trust. The company intended to develop the site for luxury housing. As part of the planning conditions, the company was obliged to locate an alternative site in the borough and construct a new rink on it. In 1989, the council, accepting £2.5M as compensation, withdrew this condition. In 1992, the rink closed, the building was demolished. No replacement rink has been built.


Brick 1
Why did you not mention that you and your group had already sought council approval for a feasibility study

Cabinet Meeting
Monday 16th April 2007
at 14:45 PM

ICE RINK FEASIBILITY
Report of the Cabinet Member for Leisure and Culture seeking approval for feasibility and scoping work to be undertaken in exploring options for an Ice Rink in Southampton, attached.
source
http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/thecouncil

/thecouncil/meetings

-agendas-reports/mee

tingpapers/sqlmeetin

gpapersagenda.asp?sc

heduledmeetingid=192

9&PortfolioID=13&Tit

le=Cabinet&Date=16/0

4/2007&Postponed=0&C

ancelled=0&PD=True


13. This report was received as a consultation item at the executive
decision-making on Monday 2nd April, 2007 and representations were
received from a Member of the Council and the Chair of the
Southampton Ice Dance and Figure Skating Club making the following
points:
• Several studies have already been made at considerable cost to
both ourselves and the City Council and you have copies of
these.
• Therefore, we trust any future study will not duplicate findings
such as the need to make the location of any ice rink easily
accessible by all forms of transport; to be in an area where the
public can also access other amenities and shopping; and of a
size that could encourage professionals to take up residence, ice
hockey to have suitable facilities and also facilities for skating
competitions and shows.
• We believe that to be financially viable the above are of prime
consideration and therefore any temporary building, on the
outskirts of the City, even if in the Sports Centre is unlikely to
attract the numbers necessary to make the venture successful.
• We are also aware of a proposed development near the City
Centre that would meet all the criteria as well as being within
easy access of the universities and some schools and colleges.
This could be provided at no ongoing cost to the Council
providing the site is made available.
• It would also incorporate other business ventures which would
become a financial asset to the City. We believe this is the best
way forward and the Council could have questions to answer if
this does not proceed.
4
• Finally, could we publicly thank the Council for providing the ice
rink over the Christmas period – all who skated enjoyed it and
are hoping this could be the start of something big.
• We want to make it clear that we will want to deliver an Arena,
although a combination of an Ice Rink and Arena is perhaps not
the best package.
• It is clear there is a considerable skating fraternity in the City. It
is hoped we can learn from the mistakes made with the
temporary rink at Christmas – no canopy, limited observation
area, no instructors available to assist, very limited exhibition
skating, no opportunity for competitions, poor catering, staff
unable to speak English, location may not have been the best,
little or no sponsorship and there was a loss of £60k.
• In view of the above, permanent provision should be fully
explored.
• The business community is keen on much improved conference
facilities which would raise the image of the City – there is no
area suitable for a large conference.
14. In response to representations the following points were received and
noted:
• It is not our intention to repeat previous studies; however, we
need to ensure we fully understand the implications of new
market circumstances.
• It remains our intention to return permanent ice skating facilities
to the City if at all possible.
• The temporary ice rink at Christmas was a success. Years 2 and
3 should be better.
• The location was a good one. It wasn’t enclosed and so didn’t
feel inhibiting although it could have been more attractive.
• If the business community believe in an major conference centre
from their own resources, the Council would respond favourably
and would be keen to work with them.
15. The report has not been modified as a result of these representations.
ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS CONSIDERED AND REJECTED
16. Not to proceed with feasibility work on either project, rejected, as this would
not enable considered decisions to be made at a later date as to whether
Council should proceed with the provision of a temporary ice rink for
Christmas 2007 or a permanent ice rink

Will you both now please go and do your homework before posting ill thought and ill conceived ideas.

I'm going to side with George, not only because he's clearly correct, but mainly because it's a great feeling to be in this apparent minority of 5000 - 1 but still demonstrably winning the argument. The more names Brick gets on his petition the greater the odds and the better the feeling. Brick, please keep me updated on the number of names you have collected.

THE BRICK wrote:

Contributor wrote:
"The Lost Cause Brigade, of wishful thinkers, consistently try to blind with warm fuzzy anecdotal stuff or cite 100% incorrect facts. Totally ignoring reality they bounce back from whatever rational, intelligent, irrefutable, indisputable observations you put in front of them. Heavily into denial and deaf to reason, they will sorely try your patience! I'm not sure they are worth the effort, as they appear to cast themselves as die-hard lemmings. "

George, goodbye, and thanks for all the fish.

"Contributor" is not me. I know you like to think that everyone in the world agrees with you, and anyone who doesn't couldn't possibly be more than one person, but again you're just ignoring facts because it makes your day-dreaming easier. Yep, it's really inconceivable that two people might disagree with you. I mean, how could they, when you beat the army 7-3!

Good luck convincing a developer this is a good idea. Doubtless whenever one of them turns down your plea for pocket money, you'll accuse them all of being me in disguise.

southy wrote:
Contributor at lest we keep to one name and not many to hide behide.
the no brigade need to get out to others towns and citys to see what they got

Sorry, southy, "Concributor" and I are two different people. What you and "BRICK" consistently fail to understand is, there's nothing to be gained from me "winning" this argument when there's a very definate, concrete outcome that nobody on this forum has the slightest control over. All that matters is the actual result, which neither of you seems to realise would affect both of you, and myself, the same way. No ice rink? That's bad news for all of us. An ice rink? Good news for all of us! There's little point me pretending to be anyone else in support of my own points, when it would neither affect the outcome, nor mean any perceived "victories" for myself. But all BRICK and his cohorts can see is, anyone who is not raving about what a brilliant idea an ice rink is, must, by definition, be vehemently against it. Which is why you all believe 5000 supposedly unique signatures is all the evidence in the world required. Take the 5000 signatures to a business angel, hell, take it on Dragon's Den, get some publicity for your cause too, and see if anyone in a position to make a difference accepts it for what you pretend it is

I'd just like to add that the notion of Leisure facilities such as ice rinks making a profit is not exactly true. It may be just about possible to make an operating profit (and this is what is often quoted) but only by ignoring the debt servicing on the capital cost of purchase and construction and other amortised costs such as depreciation. (A lot of desperate businesses use this ploy known as EBITDA) to avoid Chapter 11 while trying to maintain a a decent credit rating -Best known local example was ntl. It doesn't work any more - this is what the Credit Crisis is all about. The Ice rink would need its entire land and construction cost to be firstly completely underwritten, and then written off by whoever provides the capital. The construction cost itself would be raised by borrowing (because that's the way it's done) - but which bank would lend anyone (say) £50m against no security whatsoever because the Developer is just going to give it away when it's complete? The book value of the capital asset would effectively be gifted to a new Operating Company along with sufficient funds to balance depreciation It is sadly an insane notion. So it doesn't matter if you had 100,000 signatures Brick, you would be better off with 100,000 bottle tops quite frankly. Sorry.

george i dont think your Contributor but Contributor uses more than 1 name like live local has more than 1 name for those people i have no repect they cant hold there own ground unlike andy here.
good thing about an ice rink,its maintenance is one of the cheapest if not the cheapest to maintenan,a open air grass sports ground cost more than a ice rink,it all so recycles the water it uses unlike a swimming pool that has to be renewed every 3 mts with fresh water

southy wrote:
george i dont think your Contributor but Contributor uses more than 1 name like live local has more than 1 name for those people i have no repect they cant hold there own ground unlike andy here.
good thing about an ice rink,its maintenance is one of the cheapest if not the cheapest to maintenan,a open air grass sports ground cost more than a ice rink,it all so recycles the water it uses unlike a swimming pool that has to be renewed every 3 mts with fresh water

Hmm, maybe "Contributor" is using more than one name, we'll never know. I doubt it, but it's irrelevant anyway. It isn't the people on this forum that need persuaded in either direction on this idea, is it?

It doesn't matter how cheap an ice rink is to maintain. The bottom line is, will it be popular enough on a long-term basis to make it worthwhile? It saddens me to say, probably not. You might disagree, that's up to you, but seriously, 5000 signatures does nothing at all to back you up. 5000 people said, in passing, "oh yeh, an ice rink, that's a nice idea" or "Well, I've nothing intrinsically against the idea". Not "I hereby declare that I, the undersigned, undertake to use an ice rink on a regular basis". Even if the petition was worded as such, that's not what went through people's minds. All this "5000-0" is simply nonsensical. Support for your campaign is pretty much meaningless, it's nice to see support, but it isn't in any way market research, it can't be used as the basis for a financial decision. All this supposed evidence is based on the flawed idea that there are only two stances to be taken on the issue: Either one is in favour of an ice rink or one is opposed to it. That's missing out a whole demographic that undoubtedly outnumbers the sum of the first two: those who couldn't care less either way. By definition, the apathetic are not going to be very pro-active about expressing their apathy, so you do not have any figures representing how the populace of Southampton actually feels about this idea. Saying "5000-0" over and over again won't change that.

More laughably, the result of a hockey game is now being treated as "evidence". I've honestly never seen such a massively flawed argument in all my life. Seriously. "We won a game, ergo an ice rink is a good idea". Come off it!

The council have seemingly dismissed the idea, so it will have to be a profit-making venture. As Andy points out above, and as has been repeatedly pointed out in the past, that's unlikely to happen. And in all honesty, before anyone goes stampeding off with a noddy petition and a banner saying "GIVE US WHAT WE WANT AND THEN WE'LL GO AWAY!" expecting to sway some venture capitalists, please, consider just how ridiculous that actually appears to the outside world, and remember, it is the outside world you have to sell this idea to, like it or not.

Comparing an ice rink to other leisure facilities is pointless, too. A grass sports ground has a far, far wider appeal and far broader usage than an ice rink ever will. Swimming pools are so unbelievably beneficial to pretty much everyone that the running costs simply have to be borne.

george an ice rink is getting closer to being built,the delevopers are there to build one just that they getting out bid by the home&hotel builders has the housing market is dropping so the ice rink is getting closer.i personal think if a rink is in the center of the town it probley just about make it,but it will not pull many people in from out side of the city.but if built on the west side of the city it will bring in loads of people and make that big profit.i agree with you that it cant be a multi complex,but it could deal with all the ice sports,fun skating, figure&speed skating,ice hockey and curling,skating is a very healthy sport just like swimming is,
take no notice at the 5000-0 its not aim at you but the 3 people who dont want any thing to happen in southampton

southy wrote:
george an ice rink is getting closer to being built,the delevopers are there to build one just that they getting out bid by the home&hotel builders has the housing market is dropping so the ice rink is getting closer.i personal think if a rink is in the center of the town it probley just about make it,but it will not pull many people in from out side of the city.but if built on the west side of the city it will bring in loads of people and make that big profit.i agree with you that it cant be a multi complex,but it could deal with all the ice sports,fun skating, figure&speed skating,ice hockey and curling,skating is a very healthy sport just like swimming is,
take no notice at the 5000-0 its not aim at you but the 3 people who dont want any thing to happen in southampton

Can I suggest you adjust your figure to "5000-3" then! Or, more realistically, "5003-299,400" to represent those who have expressed feelings either way about an ice rink vs. those who haven't.

Anyways, BRICK never tires of throwing "5000-0" at me whenever I comment, so, really, it is aimed at me. Regardless, the figure does not represent what you claim it does

southy wrote:
george i dont think your Contributor but Contributor uses more than 1 name like live local has more than 1 name for those people i have no repect they cant hold there own ground unlike andy here. good thing about an ice rink,its maintenance is one of the cheapest if not the cheapest to maintenan,a open air grass sports ground cost more than a ice rink,it all so recycles the water it uses unlike a swimming pool that has to be renewed every 3 mts with fresh water

As you might expect once again you are wrong Southy.
Having lost the argument and debate, you now resort to claiming that people are using joint registrations to make more comments.

I for one am not, all my posts are from me and I have not posted under any other name.

I also suggest that you re read the post by Andy as he points out that an ice rink is not viable (will not be built) so before praising his stance too much be sure he is not another ‘neggie’

Finally if we look at the balance sheet again

Cost of temporary ice rink: loss to the city 60,000
Feasibility study for new ice rink 75,000

Can the people who signed the petition please cover these costs which currently adds up to only 27 pounds each, assuming that each person only signed once! As it is not fair to put this burden onto the residents of Southampton.

good point george on the 3 i easy on that 5000-3 but dont they need to start a own no petition to be able to count,abstain votes normaly go to the yes vote but will not count them for a yes or a no.
temp ice rink was there a charge to use it or was it free to all to have fun on it

southy wrote:
good point george on the 3 i easy on that 5000-3 but dont they need to start a own no petition to be able to count,abstain votes normaly go to the yes vote but will not count them for a yes or a no.
temp ice rink was there a charge to use it or was it free to all to have fun on it

Abstained votes do not "go to the yes"! That's pure vote-rigging! This isn't Florida or Zimbabwe, you know!

it happens in this country george to often its one of the things i disagree with ( it dont happen in election for government or countcils or any thing that big)

No, Southy, nobody needs to start a "no" campaign. Your thinking on this is a bit silly, to be honest, and not really founded on reality. The matter is not decided on how many people express a particular opinion, but only on what is actually financially viable. Petitions are meaningless when making a business case. Pretty simple really. Give up on this cause, or at least this completely ridiculous, "Roy Of The Rovers" approach to it. Arbitrary ideas of "fairness" do not govern local economics!

southy wrote:
it happens in this country george to often its one of the things i disagree with ( it dont happen in election for government or countcils or any thing that big)

See my "Roy of the Rovers" post above

an ice rink would be financially viable,it would also bring in income to the traders,like the people who go shopping but makes it a day out for there kids to,then there are the schools that would use it to in school hours has part of there sports program,then theres the competitions, there is a reasonable ice hockey following in this city all ways have been but most now result to watching it on tv because there is no local rink to go to

Southy wrote:

an ice rink would be financially viable

Maybe (although the evidence to the contrary is quite apparent and well-documented). But 5000 signatures on a petition doesn't prove this. Nor does an ice hockey team winning a game.

it would also bring in income to the traders

Why would an investor care about that? What's in it for him?

there is a reasonable ice hockey following in this city all ways have been but most now result to watching it on tv because there is no local rink to go to

Nonsense. If they really were so desperate to play, they wouldn't let a few miles get in their way. Gosport isn't far, Basingstoke isn't far. Giving up on your sport, and watching TV instead doesn't really say "commitment", does it?

if you really look at the evidence its not quite apparent all this well-documented evidence is done by people that only want to see houses and hotels being built it need to be done by a neutral person.and the 5000 is likey to use it.thats why it counts.
an investor would do it because he has other things planed to bring in the people for one thing to go to other things like maybe a greyhound track or speedway ect all depends what that investor into.
like all league sports it has its home and away matches keep having to play away the cost amounts in your pocket.and has like football you have your people that will only watch home matches and them that watch both home&away and them that will only watch away matches.gosport and basingstoke is ok if you live on the east side of southampton but no good if you on the west side,there use to be people coming in from salisbury when we had a ice rink here but last time i heard they are going to the small rink in swindon and maransbury those 2 rinks are only temp rinks on so many days a mth

i also think that curling would become big in this city,bowls has a very big following in southampton and on its out skirts maybe they would like to try there hand out in it,and contry to what a few people say about bowls its not OAP only play this there are loads of young people into the game to.

If you really look at the evidence its not quite apparent all this well-documented evidence is done by people that only want to see houses and hotels being built

Says who?

it need to be done by a neutral person.

Indeed. And nobody who uses phrases such as "GIVE US WHAT WE WANT AND THEN WE'LL GO AWAY" qualifies as neutral.

and the 5000 is likey to use it.thats why it counts.

Pure conjecture. There's no reason on Earth to believe that, it's a non sequitur.

an investor would do it because he has other things planed to bring in the people for one thing to go to other things like maybe a greyhound track or speedway ect all depends what that investor into.

Scope creep. The demand is for an ice rink.

like all league sports it has its home and away matches keep having to play away the cost amounts in your pocket.and has like football you have your people that will only watch home matches and them that watch both home&away and them that will only watch away matches

Interesting point. Do you have any figures for how much revenue this would generate? Any potential investor is going to ask the same, and expect a reasonable answer, not just "I reckon it'll work".

osport and basingstoke is ok if you live on the east side of southampton but no good if you on the west side

How d'you work that out?

southy wrote:
i also think that curling would become big in this city,bowls has a very big following in southampton and on its out skirts maybe they would like to try there hand out in it,and contry to what a few people say about bowls its not OAP only play this there are loads of young people into the game to.

Again, it doesn't really matter what you think Southy. Or what I think. This is non-evidence

take a look at the names on them documents and compare them to other developement document have a look and see what they favour all the time.
most i think you find that signed that paper the 5000 have done in the pass or do go skating.
yes one prodject gives a helping hand to another eg:- say ladbrooks decided to build a grayhound track for the city to get more people intrested so thay can take more bets they might build a speedway to.
no body can give how much revenue it would make all citys are diffrent you can only go by how all the other ice rinks are doing and they are all doing well none makes a lost
i live on the west side and to those places is a pain in the neck much easyer for me to west and quicker

southy wrote:
take a look at the names on them documents and compare them to other developement document have a look and see what they favour all the time.
most i think you find that signed that paper the 5000 have done in the pass or do go skating.
yes one prodject gives a helping hand to another eg:- say ladbrooks decided to build a grayhound track for the city to get more people intrested so thay can take more bets they might build a speedway to.
no body can give how much revenue it would make all citys are diffrent you can only go by how all the other ice rinks are doing and they are all doing well none makes a lost
i live on the west side and to those places is a pain in the neck much easyer for me to west and quicker

I can't think of any other way to say "5000 people signing a bit of paper is not a commitment to go skating regularly" that might make it sink in.

no body can give how much revenue it would make

Correct. So why do you repeatedly insist on doing so?

they dont need to go skating regularly.just having it there so they can go skating when they can.and if you got 5000 then there will be alot more that would go
in full please and not a little bit.
no body can give how much revenue it would make all citys are diffrent you can only go by how all the other ice rinks are doing and they are all doing well none makes a lost

southy wrote:
they dont need to go skating regularly.just having it there so they can go skating when they can.and if you got 5000 then there will be alot more that would go
in full please and not a little bit.
no body can give how much revenue it would make all citys are diffrent you can only go by how all the other ice rinks are doing and they are all doing well none makes a lost

You're making things up again, Southy. First it's "anyone who didn't sign the petition is a 'yes'" and now it's "if you've got 5000 signatures a lot more will go". Quite why you think simply inventing facts will have any bearing on reality is, franky, beyond me

not making it up george there are many more that would go skating if it was local,like just up the road from me there are kids that play hockey on roller blade boots in a car park that would love to play on ice, but the cost of traveling and time it takes for them to do it not worth there while to,they did not know there was a petition for a ice rink till i told them 2 days ago.
i tell you what happen here a few years ago on a local catchment area vote about mansel park the vote was yes to a pavement though the park and no to a fishing pond the no vote out numbered the yes vote but the abstain vote went to the yes vote they both would of cost about the same so what did we get a pavement though the middle of the park

I'm all for curling, in fact I curled out a beauty this morning, but on ice?

Mental Mickey wrote:
I'm all for curling, in fact I curled out a beauty this morning, but on ice?

Enhances the steaminess

southy wrote:
not making it up george there are many more that would go skating if it was local,like just up the road from me there are kids that play hockey on roller blade boots in a car park that would love to play on ice, but the cost of traveling and time it takes for them to do it not worth there while to,they did not know there was a petition for a ice rink till i told them 2 days ago. i tell you what happen here a few years ago on a local catchment area vote about mansel park the vote was yes to a pavement though the park and no to a fishing pond the no vote out numbered the yes vote but the abstain vote went to the yes vote they both would of cost about the same so what did we get a pavement though the middle of the park

Have you told these kids how much ice hockey costs to play? The subs each month are expensive at even a club like Gosport so I dread to think how much they would be at a new rink!
Also how many spectators were there at Basingstoke the other day because on the videos I've seen there were less that 40 watching and most came with the Blades.

Dear Southy how about doing some research?

Look at this report dated 6th April 2008 ( before more fuel rises and the current slump in development, both of which make new project unlikely)
Scots ice rinks close to meltdown

The majority of Scotland's remaining ice rinks are struggling to survive, a BBC Scotland survey has discovered.
Some of the country's biggest rinks have already shut down and there are fears that new EU regulations could put many more out of business.
Ice rinks in Aberdeen, Paisley and Prestwick have already been forced to close their doors.
Bosses at the Magnum Leisure Centre in Ayrshire fear it may be the next rink to go.
Aberdeen's ice rink is due to reopen in 18 months' time but campaigners fear a recent cash crisis at Aberdeen City Council could see it stay closed for good.
One ice rink operator told BBC Scotland they were "hanging on by a thread" and rinks across Scotland were facing similar financial problems.
Many of the local authorities and private owners contacted by BBC Scotland said they were struggling to meet soaring maintenance and operating costs.
Electricity bills are said to have increased by almost two thirds over the last two years.


New regulations from the EU will soon force ice rinks to change the type of refrigerant they use.
David Carey, chairman of the Scottish Ice Rinks Association, claimed the resulting bills would push more rinks into the red.


The planned site for an ice rink in Southampton was as part of Ocean village phase 3, but the whole of phase 3 was abandoned as an idea some months ago. The city were looking at about 11 sites for a rink none of which were in Redbridge.

Can you ask your local friends to price this up in addition to the cost of membership and coaching.
Hockey Skates
Shin pads
Hockey socks - held up by suspenders
Box (Groin protector).
Hockey shorts
Shoulder pads/body armour
Elbow pads
Hockey gloves
Neck Guard
Helmet with grille or full visor
Stick
Hockey Jersey


Do you research, other wise you will continue to look a complete fool.
Find a developer will to take the risk at their expense…..
You could contact planet ice for a response (or even god forbid the echo could do some investigative journalism)

P. S. I am still waiting to for you to respond to my questions about Richmond and tower park ice rinks.

I would ask the brick but they seem to have bricked it.

Also if they can't afford to drive to Gosport for training, how will they be able to afford to get to all the away games such as milton Keynes, Cardiff, Peterborough, etc? Its not a cheap sport to be involved with!

I'm still waiting for the Tower Park reply as well!

jacko m8 look,s like your right northy.don't read it all selective reading.

If you cowboys like to look you all ready have your answers.Come up with some different questions.

wild bill wrote:
jacko m8 look,s like your right northy.don't read it all selective reading.

wherever there's a southy you can be sure there's a wild bill not far behind.....

I think southy and THE BRICK are one and the same person, their posts are too similar in their lack of reality.

Re: petition - pro-rink supporters need a petition to prove support. Anti-rink people don't need a petition because a) there are no serious plans (to build a rink) for them to oppose in the first place; b) the pro-rinkers have failed to produce significant evidence of widespread public support.

At the end of the day, this isn't a matter for the council. It is up to a private company, one that is in the business of ice rinks, to decide that Southampton is THE place to be, that Southampton is the place where all the ice rink fans are. If such a company decides to come here then fine - I, as someone who is so tired of this ice rink talk, will even accept it. But, Southy and Brickhead: you are basically arguing for the council to subsidise a rink, where are the ice rink companies clamouring to open a new rink down here off their own backs?

Public subsidy of sport/fitness: yes, there is a case for this, but ice skating is too niche. A better gift to Southampton taxpayers would be reducing/scrapping charges to get into The Quays for the pools and the gyms.

nick we are two diffrent people.
petition do count it gives a small amount of people that could or want to use it.it gives a rough out line.
there are private developers out there that want to build an ice rink.
the council will not be subsidise the rink there is a load of 1 million but this has to be paid back.
there is no hope of the quays reducing/scrapping charges,the mainanace to swimming pool cost to much,has are the water,eletric charges.
if quays did't get public money it would off been closed down by now or you be paying £10 to get in to swim.
an ice rink is coming just a case of when

westie wrote:

wild bill wrote:
jacko m8 look,s like your right northy.don\'t read it all selective reading.

wherever there\'s a southy you can be sure there\'s a wild bill not far behind.....

this is a case for lots of names even denzil has his followers.
i am normaly up on the marine forum and live chat site,has is bill and a few others
still like the multi names norhty

Southy's at it again. "Petitions do count, because I'd like to think they do", and the facts of the matter be damned, comparing apples to oranges once more and claiming "an ice rink is coming just a case of when" as if that makes it so. Come off it, Southy, I usually have some respect for your views, whether I share them or not, but this one, you're being ridiculous. You're missing Nick's point about petitions: he's saying that there's no need for a "no to ice rinks" campaign, because there isn't anything to campaign against. You seem to think this entire thing is driven by "who can run the better campaign", when it isn't. It's driven entirely by economic forces.

I don't think you and BRICK are the same person, though

hi george a no campaign would help george it give some sort of an idea of how many dont want it.
it is a more of a case when george.i heard costains might be looking into building an ice rinks,talking to my m8 who is head rigger for the company he was saying there going to be 10 new ones being built in the uk,and southampton is a one location that might end up on there list.
economic force on home building is on a downward turn so some other sort of building work will fill this spot.

southy wrote:
hi george a no campaign would help george it give some sort of an idea of how many dont want it.
it is a more of a case when george.i heard costains might be looking into building an ice rinks,talking to my m8 who is head rigger for the company he was saying there going to be 10 new ones being built in the uk,and southampton is a one location that might end up on there list.
economic force on home building is on a downward turn so some other sort of building work will fill this spot.

It wouldn't help one little bit. The people behind this campaign regularly demonstrate that they are completely closed to anything other than full agreement with their proposals, so there's no way they'd accept any such campaign. You're missing the point - as is always the case with this inexplicably emotional issue - that most people are simply apathetic towards the idea, rather than outright opposed to it. As long as it's not going to be paid for with their taxes, I doubt most people could give two hoots whether an ice rink gets built or not. You're still ignoring the single most important question: will people use it regularly enough to make it worthwhile? Spouting off about ice hockey this, and my mate that doesn't address that issue at all. The whole problem with this campaign is, those involved are far too invested in it emotionally, and simply put their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la la la I can't hear you" whenever someone even looks like they're suggesting it might not work.

it would be used george theres no dought about it, and it would pay its own way,its not just a sport side it,there also the family side of it.and with the winter olympics coming up soon there going to even more of a demand

southy wrote:
it would be used george theres no dought about it, and it would pay its own way,its not just a sport side it,there also the family side of it.and with the winter olympics coming up soon there going to even more of a demand

Dear me, Southy, you're still just blindly making wild claims that have no substance. If there's really no doubt it would be used, why don't you build it? If I had such a rock solid plan that I knew would undoubtedly succeed, I wouldn't hesitate to raise the cash to start the project. Not for a minute. Quite how you've managed to generate such a flawless business plan from one petition and some wishful thinking is another matter, though

george i have all ready said that if had the money i would build it in pass posts.
what alot of people forget is that sponsors pay for any gear thats needed for competitors in competitions and there the advertising revenue at competitions to

southy wrote:
george i have all ready said that if had the money i would build it in pass posts.
what alot of people forget is that sponsors pay for any gear thats needed for competitors in competitions and there the advertising revenue at competitions to

You don't need to have the money. All you need to do is borrow it from a bank. If your business plan is nice and solid, the DTI are quite likely to guarantee the loan for you, so there's no personal risk on your part, and if your idea takes off, you stand to make quite a bit of money, as well as getting your ice rink. There's really very little standing in your way, if the idea is as solid as you claim it is, and everything you've told us so far is actually true.

borrowing money george is some thing i dont do i like to do it of my own back

I can't believe you two are still at it!

George - you have the patience of a saint. I don't know how many times you made and reiterated your argument, and still it hasn't registered.

I am in full agreement of your posts. I too would quite enjoy an ice-rink in the city (if only to silence the whingers), but as you point out, I, like the majority of people, am apathetic towards the idea.

I genuinely don't think it will be commercially viable. Yes there is a hardcore of skaters and hockey-players who want to use the facility regularly, but they alone won't support a rink. I just don't see that there is demand or the disposable income.

I note from the Planet-Ice website that it costs £8.00 to skate (including skate hire), per person. Not many people can afford to pay that sort of money, more than once in a blue moon.

And as for the “Give us what we want and then we’ll go away” campaign, well, it’s just laughably childish.

Southy – sponsorship may pay for some equipment, but not all. It won’t cover the cost of membership subscriptions and personal equipment (skates for example). And in any event, one singular ice-hockey team – sponsored or not – is not enough to justify an ice-rink.

Nonetheless, good luck with your campaign. I genuinely don't think it will happen, but if it does, and it’s accessible to all and successful, I’ll eat my hat. Anything is possible, after all “British Army Blades 3, Southampton Vikings 7”, whatever the hell that has to do with anything!!

southy wrote:
borrowing money george is some thing i dont do i like to do it of my own back

Sounds like an excuse, to me, Southy! That attitude would have stood you in good stead in the past, nowadays it's just a burden, you need to be quick to exercise your good ideas, or someone else will do it. Unless you've already got the liquid assets to put something in motion, that means borrowing.

Sentient wrote:
I can't believe you two are still at it!

George - you have the patience of a saint. I don't know how many times you made and reiterated your argument, and still it hasn't registered.

I am in full agreement of your posts. I too would quite enjoy an ice-rink in the city (if only to silence the whingers), but as you point out, I, like the majority of people, am apathetic towards the idea.

I genuinely don't think it will be commercially viable. Yes there is a hardcore of skaters and hockey-players who want to use the facility regularly, but they alone won't support a rink. I just don't see that there is demand or the disposable income.

I note from the Planet-Ice website that it costs £8.00 to skate (including skate hire), per person. Not many people can afford to pay that sort of money, more than once in a blue moon.

And as for the “Give us what we want and then we’ll go away” campaign, well, it’s just laughably childish.

Southy – sponsorship may pay for some equipment, but not all. It won’t cover the cost of membership subscriptions and personal equipment (skates for example). And in any event, one singular ice-hockey team – sponsored or not – is not enough to justify an ice-rink.

Nonetheless, good luck with your campaign. I genuinely don't think it will happen, but if it does, and it’s accessible to all and successful, I’ll eat my hat. Anything is possible, after all “British Army Blades 3, Southampton Vikings 7”, whatever the hell that has to do with anything!!

Mneh, in all honesty I'm just shooting the breeze with Southy. I'm not expecting to change his mind, and I doubt he's expecting to change mine. It would be nice if he'd concede that there were points I raise he hadn't considered, but - as I said before - the issue won't ever be resolved here, it's only the actual, concrete results that matter.

It's just a bit of back-and-forth now, with one of the few people on these boards that is capable of disagreeing with someone without resorting to personal insults.

George wrote:

Sentient wrote: I can't believe you two are still at it! George - you have the patience of a saint. I don't know how many times you made and reiterated your argument, and still it hasn't registered. I am in full agreement of your posts. I too would quite enjoy an ice-rink in the city (if only to silence the whingers), but as you point out, I, like the majority of people, am apathetic towards the idea. I genuinely don't think it will be commercially viable. Yes there is a hardcore of skaters and hockey-players who want to use the facility regularly, but they alone won't support a rink. I just don't see that there is demand or the disposable income. I note from the Planet-Ice website that it costs £8.00 to skate (including skate hire), per person. Not many people can afford to pay that sort of money, more than once in a blue moon. And as for the “Give us what we want and then we’ll go away” campaign, well, it’s just laughably childish. Southy – sponsorship may pay for some equipment, but not all. It won’t cover the cost of membership subscriptions and personal equipment (skates for example). And in any event, one singular ice-hockey team – sponsored or not – is not enough to justify an ice-rink. Nonetheless, good luck with your campaign. I genuinely don't think it will happen, but if it does, and it’s accessible to all and successful, I’ll eat my hat. Anything is possible, after all “British Army Blades 3, Southampton Vikings 7”, whatever the hell that has to do with anything!!

Mneh, in all honesty I'm just shooting the breeze with Southy. I'm not expecting to change his mind, and I doubt he's expecting to change mine. It would be nice if he'd concede that there were points I raise he hadn't considered, but - as I said before - the issue won't ever be resolved here, it's only the actual, concrete results that matter. It's just a bit of back-and-forth now, with one of the few people on these boards that is capable of disagreeing with someone without resorting to personal insults.

Agreed & accepted. It's good to see some good-spirited discussion without personal insults.

you know theres over 80 ice rinks in the uk,there is even one in Bideford,Devon whitch surprize me been bideford a few times but never seen where the ice rink is.

sponsorship can pay for the whole lot it depends on the agreement.even traveling and subs

southy wrote:
you know theres over 80 ice rinks in the uk,there is even one in Bideford,Devon whitch surprize me been bideford a few times but never seen where the ice rink is.

Still doesn't prove an ice rink would be popular. You'll have to conduct market research to even begin to test that notion. And, no, asking people "do you think an ice rink might be a nice idea?" isn't market research. And, no, market research still does not give you any guarantees of popularity.

southy wrote:
sponsorship can pay for the whole lot it depends on the agreement.even traveling and subs

Still doesn't prove an ice rink would be popular.

well with over 80 rinks in the uk,there must be a call for it,only way to find out really is to build one,design it so if it dont work out it can be used for some thing else,easy answer for that problem

well with over 80 rinks in the uk,there must be a call for it

See: begging the question. You're implying the proposition in your premise - false logic.

only way to find out really is to build one,design it so if it dont work out it can be used for some thing else,easy answer for that problem

Indeed that's the only true way to be sure. Does that mean it's a good idea? No. There is still much more practical research that can be done before taking that particular plunge. Imagine the expense of simply trying out every idea that comes along, rather than researching it properly!

"The only way to be sure a donkey-raping nightclub wouldn't work is to build it". Doesn't work, does it?

what research that can be done has been.
look at the pro and cons

pro
cheap maintaince
low running cost (water ele ect)
hampshire has the lest number of rinks to a county (the 3 citys not one has a rink)
if place on the west side of southampton it catchment area would cover over 2 million people
sponsorship for teams ect
advertising revenue ( would mulitply if shown on tv.
family entertainment
schools sports program
then theres all them studens in southampton thats going to get bigger in numbers(might help to keep them out of the pubs)
then the other part when people go to skating from way out of the city with there familys they probley make a day out of it and spend money else where to

what research that can be done has been.

Really? Cool! So, out of all the people you presented your detailed questionnaire examining their projected usage of an ice rink, how many of them said they'd use it more than three times a year? What size of sample are we talking about here? What was the average highest cost people would be prepared to pay to use the facilities? Which age demographic was most in favour of an ice rink? Where can I read more about this research? Why has it not been mentioned before?

pro
cheap maintaince
low running cost (water ele ect)
hampshire has the lest number of rinks to a county (the 3 citys not one has a rink)
if place on the west side of southampton it catchment area would cover over 2 million people
sponsorship for teams ect
advertising revenue ( would mulitply if shown on tv.
family entertainment
schools sports program
then theres all them studens in southampton thats going to get bigger in numbers(might help to keep them out of the pubs)
then the other part when people go to skating from way out of the city with there familys they probley make a day out of it and spend money else where to

Sorry, Southy, that isn't research at all, let alone market research. It's conjecture. It's also lacking any cons, so it's totally one-sided conjecture at that.

i let u do the cons

southy: students? Advertising revenue from TV broadcasts? What planet are you living on?

Saying "hampshire has the lest number of rinks to a county (the 3 citys not one has a rink)
if place on the west side of southampton it catchment area would cover over 2 million people" is not the same as saying there is a huge demand.

Going back to my earlier post re: petition. The reason the anti-rinkers like myself do not feel any justification for a petition against the development of an ice rink is the fact I have peace of mind knowing that both yourself and BRICK are doing your cause an injustice with your woolly arguments that clutch at straws. No one will take the case for an ice rink seriously if they come across comments from you or BRICK.

George: "You're missing the point - as is always the case with this inexplicably emotional issue - that most people are simply apathetic towards the idea, rather than outright opposed to it. As long as it's not going to be paid for with their taxes, I doubt most people could give two hoots whether an ice rink gets built or not. You're still ignoring the single most important question: will people use it regularly enough to make it worthwhile?"

...Cheers mate, you've put all of my opinions on this subject into one neat paragraph. Hopefully this will allow me to avoid all future comment board on this site on this subject, knowing that someone else has summarised the anti argument perfectly.

Southy: I don't agree with you, but fair play to you for sticking up for something you believe in. PS: I don't think you are BRICK as, in hindsight, you don't come out with the deranged crap he comes out with.

As an aside, it's funny how the Echo are having so many comment boards on this subject. They must need the web traffic.

nick planet earth
say it in full not part
advertising revenue ( would mulitply if shown on tv.
the advertisers would pay more revenue if say a hockey match is shown on tv
( example adverts pay more like at the football matches if they did't to go to a top flyte match would cost 4 times more).

students would start off being mainly a girl thing whitch in the end will pull in more guys,like a meeting place
placing it on the west side would get the pull in the high numbers if you get just 1% of that 2 million going skating on a mth basis that amounts to 20,000 people going skating a mth the % probley be higher for those that go now and again.
costains is putting in a bid to build 10 new ice rinks in the uk,and southampton might be on that list

As an aside, it's funny how the Echo are having so many comment boards on this subject. They must need the web traffic.

i think that they might have heard what i found out today about the 10 new ice rinks in the uk

southy wrote:
i let u do the cons

Why? Balanced research is central to coming up with the right decision. What are you afraid of?

southy wrote:
nick planet earth
say it in full not part
advertising revenue ( would mulitply if shown on tv.
the advertisers would pay more revenue if say a hockey match is shown on tv
( example adverts pay more like at the football matches if they did't to go to a top flyte match would cost 4 times more).

students would start off being mainly a girl thing whitch in the end will pull in more guys,like a meeting place
placing it on the west side would get the pull in the high numbers if you get just 1% of that 2 million going skating on a mth basis that amounts to 20,000 people going skating a mth the % probley be higher for those that go now and again.
costains is putting in a bid to build 10 new ice rinks in the uk,and southampton might be on that list

More conjecture. Have you got anything that backs up any of these assertions? Your wishful thinking isn't enough.

You haven't addressed my challenge about your research, either. It hasn't been done, as far as I can tell. It simply seems to be the result of a bit of brain-storming: "Why might an ice rink be a success?" basically. Not balanced, not based on fact, and not acceptable as a business proposition

not conjecture goerge alot of those things happen now in other rinks
theres been a feasibility study&research all ready in 2007.part of the feasibility study was the temp ice rinks.

the 1% is a conservative ,would be higher than this.

southy wrote:
not conjecture goerge alot of those things happen now in other rinks
theres been a feasibility study&research all ready in 2007.part of the feasibility study was the temp ice rinks.

It is conjecture, Southy. Pretty much by definition. It's not proven. You reckon there's a likelihood those things will happen, based on what happens elsewhere. That's conjecture. Look it up, what you describe is pretty much exactly conjecture, as per the definition of the word in several dictionaries.

If you have to invent your own definitions of words to make your argument seem something it is not, your argument can't be all that strong!

Southy, your own words:

alot of those things happen now in other rinks

some dictionary definitions of the word conjecture

"speculation; a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence);"

"a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence"

"reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence"

"A statement or idea which is unproven, but is thought to be true"

"an unproven statement that is based on observations."

"a generalization made through inductive reasoning"

"a hypothesis drawn from observed patterns in several examples"

"an idea or statement which is believed to be true, usually because some evidence has been found to support it"

"a statement which, although much evidence can be found to support it, has not been proved to be either true or false."

What you're presenting is, by all these definitions, conjecture. Not evidence.

southy wrote:
the 1% is a conservative ,would be higher than this.

See: the above two posts. This is just more conjecture. Since your sole argument against this seems to be saying "no it isn't" over and over again, and you refuse to accept that you are not presenting anything more than informed intuition, I think it's time for me to stop flogging this deadest of horses. I find it difficult to argue with someone who is prepared to say black is white, before admitting to a bare fact. Thanks for keeping it pleasant, Southy, it's a breath of fresh air, but to continue in the face of your out-and-out denial of everything put before you is futile

Cya on the next subject :-)

conjecture intresting word to use //can also mean base on part facts and have to speculate on direction and out come eg the starting facts are there but outcome fact are missing or the other way round ( a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved)

southy wrote:
you know theres over 80 ice rinks in the uk,there is even one in Bideford,Devon whitch surprize me been bideford a few times but never seen where the ice rink is.

Dear Southy I must say you are a complete idiot. I am sorry but just as there is no ice rink in tower park, no ice rink in Richmond(London) There is no ice rink in Bideford Devon.

There is Biddeford ice arena its address is
16 Pomerleau St
Biddeford, ME 04005
(207) 283-0615
USA
There are only 39 ice rinks in England source (National ice skating association)

I know an ice rink is a fixation on your part but when giving "facts" it is normal practice to confirm your information or people will and most likely come to the same conclusion as me...you do not know what you are talking about.
So give up now

Bught Park,Inverness,IV3 5SR Lea Bridge Road,
Leyton,
London, Victoria Road,
Chelmsford,
Essex Oxpens Road,
Oxford, Leisure World,
Jarman Park,
St Albans Road,
Hemel Hempstead,
Hertfordshire Coleridge Rd,
Attercliffe,
Sheffield,
South Yorkshire Rom Valley Way,
Romford,
Essex Billingam Forum,
Town Centre,
Billingham,
Stockton-On-Tees, 111, Old Dundonald Road,
Dundonald,
Belfast, Millbay Road,
Plymouth,
Devon Billingam Forum,
Town Centre,
Billingham,
Stockton-On-Tees, Planet Ice Arena,
Basingstoke Leisure Park,
Basingstoke, 45-50, The Old Bond,Castlegreen Street,
Dumbarton,
Dunbartonshire Parkway,
Guildford,
Surrey Dundee Ice Arena (1)
Dundee Ice Arena's(1)7, Dayton Drive, Dundee, Angus 1, Newport Arcade, High St, Newport, Gwent Suttieside Rd, Forfar, Angus 1, South Row, Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire Bolero Square, The Lace Market, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire Deeside Leisure Centre, Chester Road West, Queensferry, Deeside, Clwyd Hillheads Rd, Whitley Bay, Tyne and Wear 1, Mallard Rd, Bretton, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire Williamfield, Stirling, Stirlingshire Rom Valley Way, Romford, Essex 28, Mason St, Manchester, Lancashire that is just some and that list go's on the one in bibefore is in a seaside amusement arcade and is very small 7mts x 4.5 there seems to be a number of those seaside arcade rinks

I'm not sure why some feel the need to knock the call for an ice rink for southampton. Skating supporters have never asked the council (and therefor the taxpayer) to fund it, Ice rinks can and do make money, Ice hockey generates a lot of income and rinks can also be used as venues for large scale concerts (where else in the area can we see big nbame acts without getting wet) International competitions and championships generate qudos and income but now avoid the UK. All ages can skate (if they are not too lazy) and young and old can go along have fun, get fit and meet friends. With the city now sited as one of the most violent cities surely it is time there is something built that encourages people to get fit, have fun without the need for alcohol, drugs and ASB.
With the Olypics now over perhaps people can remember when we lead the world in Ice Skating as well. There are still thousands of young people who train every day of the year and will have a sport that will bring them fitness, discipline and lifelong enjoyment.
No skating is not for everyone but nor is football, rugby or tennis and all have thier place in out society. Perhaps instead of just focusing on costs people could look positily on what an Ice Rink could provide for the city. I was on the march last week and the sadest thing I heard was when a child asked her mother what an Ice Rink was.

There are only 39 ice rinks in England source (National ice skating association)

you have to remember on the internet the info is only has good has the person who puts it there.old ibm saying rubbish in rubbish out.internet web sites are not prof check,unlike books.
the National ice skating association only list competition size rinks and dont include the small or temp rinks you have to go to a library to find this out and go to the reference part of the library.

southy wrote:
Bught Park,Inverness,IV3 5SR Lea Bridge Road, Leyton, London, Victoria Road, Chelmsford, Essex Oxpens Road, Oxford, Leisure World, Jarman Park, St Albans Road, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire Coleridge Rd, Attercliffe, Sheffield, South Yorkshire Rom Valley Way, Romford, Essex Billingam Forum, Town Centre, Billingham, Stockton-On-Tees, 111, Old Dundonald Road, Dundonald, Belfast, Millbay Road, Plymouth, Devon Billingam Forum, Town Centre, Billingham, Stockton-On-Tees, Planet Ice Arena, Basingstoke Leisure Park, Basingstoke, 45-50, The Old Bond,Castlegreen Street, Dumbarton, Dunbartonshire Parkway, Guildford, Surrey Dundee Ice Arena (1) Dundee Ice Arena's(1)7, Dayton Drive, Dundee, Angus 1, Newport Arcade, High St, Newport, Gwent Suttieside Rd, Forfar, Angus 1, South Row, Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire Bolero Square, The Lace Market, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire Deeside Leisure Centre, Chester Road West, Queensferry, Deeside, Clwyd Hillheads Rd, Whitley Bay, Tyne and Wear 1, Mallard Rd, Bretton, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire Williamfield, Stirling, Stirlingshire Rom Valley Way, Romford, Essex 28, Mason St, Manchester, Lancashire that is just some and that list go's on the one in bibefore is in a seaside amusement arcade and is very small 7mts x 4.5 there seems to be a number of those seaside arcade rinks

Now remove the rinks which are in Scotland (and likely to close, see my earlier post) the ones in Ireland and Wales and you are back to the figure of 39.

But I note on your list you have not included the tower park ice rink

The Richmond ice rink

And the Bideford ice rink, p.s. the last time I was in Bideford it was not by the sea but on the river Torridge, to get to the sea you go though the Northam area of Bideford and follow the road to Appledode and Westward Ho!

But I suppose this just confirms my view that you do not know what you are talking about.

So see you in 20 year for the next march and petition.

And the Bideford ice rink, p.s. the last time I was in Bideford it was not by the sea but on the river Torridge, to get to the sea you go though the Northam area of Bideford and follow the road to Appledode and Westward Ho!

thats the town center not every thing is there they also have a shore line front whitch is where most of the holiday makers go when doing a short stop in bideford.richmond is closed but they are the list for one of the 10 new ice rinks thats is going to be built.the ones in scotland have not closed yet they still going,so they stay on the list,they are still making a profit but nothing like they use to do because of the winter holiday traffic has reduce due to the lack of winter weather they had over the last few years.tower park web site is incompleat it only giving part of what is there.
and you really need to read the web site disclamer first
most web sites disclamers says the info on this site may or may not compleat or it may be factal or infactal and are not held reposable for any errors that this site may have all web sites have this sort of disclamer in there own words.
i know there has been complants by the locals getting turned away from the rink because it is full to compasity by none locals

also if you look closely at tower park web site it only gives you what entertainment is located at every one of there theme parks that they run.so of the parks that is company run are Cardigan Fields | Fountain Park | Parrs Wood | Riverside | Tower Park | West India Quay

error in typing they run.so of should be "some" not "so"

Carefull live local,Southy knows more about the area around Appledore than he willing to let on.
And Southy right don't take every thing you read of the internet has gospel.

Wow progress at last you acknowledge that Richomnd rink closed.

Now explain how it made comment

“yes all ice rinks make profit, just look at Richmond ice rink, one of the oldest rinks in the country. Biggest mistake made in Southampton is trying to turn it into a tourist city. Southampton is a working city, so leisure should be gear for the local people and the surrounding areas.”
1 how did Richmond made a profit when it is closed?


2 I f all ice rinks make a profit why this warning

“Dear Southy how about doing some research?

Look at this report dated 6th April 2008 ( before more fuel rises and the current slump in development, both of which make new project unlikely)
Scots ice rinks close to meltdown”

3 Tower park ice rink? More details please? (p.s. I have told you where the rink is but its nice to see you look stupid!)

4 Where is your evidence for a construction company planning to build ten ice rinks. You must have some link for this as most companies embarking on a major project like this will publish details.

5 if the Bideford rink is as you say “the one in bibefore is in a seaside amusement arcade and is very small 7mts x 4.5 there seems to be a number of those seaside arcade rinks ” then why not adopt the same plan for Southampton and put it in the old Mc donalds in the city centre, there is more than enough room in there for it>

6 Southy please explain A“the ones in scotland have not closed yet they still going,so they stay on the list,they are still making a profit but nothing like they use to do because of the winter holiday traffic has reduce due to the lack of winter weather they had over the last few years.
You claim all rinks make profit but with cooler winters this gets less ergo a link in Southampton would be less profitable.
B tower park web site is incompleat it only giving part of what is there.”
Most web sites tend also not to list attractions that are not their either….
Come to Butlins these are the attractions we do not have micro light flights etc.

Finally to go back to the number of ice rinks the figures given to me by NISA were for rinks in England (which means not Scotland, Wales or Ireland and neither America.

still selective reading i see live local richmond is still making a profit,the company that ran richond is still a registered has company and making money on intrest and are waiting for the new rink to be built.eastern scotland rinks are only in problem because of the winter holiday industry is having problems with people not going there for the winter sport.has for the fuel rises dont effect then that much to worry about seeing that they run on electric and can swop over companys to ever provide the cheapest sort of power and scotish power produce more electic than it country needs and are one of the cheapest power producers in the uk.when the winters start getting real cold again whitch i sure they will then they will be making a big profit again insted on the small ones they making now.
tower park cant you read.
i told you has much has i can tell you about the 10 new rinks for the uk,and is only in the biding stage for companys to put in bid to build them and southampton could be on the list.and if you wish to find out abot it then please turn your pc off get out of that chair and go down to the main library and do some reading the old fashion way.any publish details will be in paper forum and prof read before being publish.
you will need more than one of those rinks to fill the need plus its no good for competitions whitch is what southampton needs.
eastern scotish ice rinks where built for the tourist trade and not really for local trade they where counting on the numbers of holiday makers out numbering the locals when they was built.with southampton the old rink was built for locals and surrounding area and not for tourist,the diffrence is residential population to seasonal tourist population and things are geared to this.you really do need to read the site disclaimer every site has them.
NISA only give competition size rinks they dont list any others like smaller and temp rinks.i only listed some that are in the uk england northern ireland scotland and wales,you are the one that said any thing about america no one else did.
like i said before if you want good solid information then go to a library and sit down and read books and not take info from the internet and thinking this is correct because it said so internet sites are not prof check where has books are even then you need to do cross refrence with other books some times that might mean going to another library

NO POINT ACCUSING OTHER PEOPLE OF SELECTIVE READING SOUTHY WHEN YOURE MAKING UP YOUR OWN MEANINGS FOR WORDS!!!!!

i only quoted from the dictionary for the word conjecture it has 3 ways of meaning.ED
plus i dont like quoting from the internet sites to offten they have the wrong mix in them or are not compleat in info and can be very misleading.