First shot fired in the fluoride war as ‘drop ins’ labelled ‘a sham’ (From Daily Echo)

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First shot fired in the fluoride war as ‘drop ins’ labelled ‘a sham’

1:46pm Thursday 11th September 2008 in

By Jon Reeve » Education Reporter

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HEALTH chiefs are urging residents and workers in those areas that could be set to receive fluoridated water to make the most of a series of drop-in events being held during the official public consultation period.

The sessions, which begin in Bitterne on September 18, will give people the opportunity to talk to experts, and give their feedback on the contentious scheme.

They are being held by South Central Strategic Health Authority – the body charged with independently overseeing the consultation – in a bid to help people understand the complex argu ments for and against fluoride.

But anti-fluoride campaigners criticised the planned events as one-sided, and have expressed their frustrations at being told they cannot give their own presentations at the sessions.

Each of the sessions will run from noon until 8pm, in the hope of allowing as many people as possible the opportunity to attend.

Senior SHA staff will be on hand, supported by other colleagues.

“We want as many people to come to these centres as possible,” said SHA spokesman Graham Groves.

“We will also have display boards with detailed information, the consultation documents and other literature.

“Members of the public can approach the staff there to find out more about the consultation process and we’ll try to answer any questions they have.

“This is a public consultation, so we do need the views of people who live and work in Southampton and the wider area in question.

“We’ll have forms people can fill in and leave with us to give their opinions. Those who don’t want to contribute at the time will be able to take them away with the email address or phone number, so they can submit their comments at a time that suits them.”

Chairman of Hampshire Against Fluoridation John Spottiswoode said the refusal to let his organisation present at the drop-in events is further evidence the consultation is a “sham”.

“The material produced so far by the health authorities is a disgrace. It is so one-sided and biased that it gives a completely false picture of what fluoride is doing,” he said.

“The health authorities are seeking to fool people into supporting water fluoridation by producing a stream of one-sided propaganda that does not take account of the re-search showing major negative health side-effects.”

Comments(22)

Dr Alimantado says...
1:59pm Thu 11 Sep 08

I wil be going to my local consultation and I will be kicking off big stylie.

It is a sham and I can sense it in my bones that they have made the decision to go ahead with it already

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Jim Schultz says...
2:44pm Thu 11 Sep 08

In the US it is very rare that the health department will consent to a true debate. The knowledge level of most even at the national level is so science deficient they are quickly proven fools and deceivers. They do much better in controlled statement situations. They do very well at simple policy statements and lists of endorsements. Do not expect real answers with data and science. The proof of benefit and safety for H2SiF6 does not exist. Not one study done yet.They tested only purified sodium fluoride in double distilled deionized water not toxic waste with 20 unmentioned contaminates,many radioactive.

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Adrian Smith says...
3:08pm Thu 11 Sep 08

"Chairman of Hampshire Against Fluoridation John Spottiswoode said the refusal to let his organisation present at the drop-in events is further evidence the consultation is a “sham”"

That is all the proof I need to know that the SHA plans are wrong.

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Jim Schultz says...
3:17pm Thu 11 Sep 08

At city commissions the health department will march out 6 health department people and a lineup of dentists. It is rare that a current science study is mentioned. It is all public relations. Monday a Alamo Heights Texas commissioner who had researched fluoride science corrected false statements with correct science instead of accepting blindly false claims. Truth is devistating to lies and leaves the promoter stammering confused. All voted not to fluoridate based on science.
Poughkeepsie NY this year voted to stop 50 years of fluoridation after asking many tough questions on safety and benefit and not a single answer in waiting a year. Not a single of the 33 chemical suppliers would state H2SiF6 safe for humans or having benefit. Unless the health department can state policy most stay silent on current specific studies.For good reason as they show fluoridation worse then worthless. The York review 2000 showed dental fluorisis tripled from 15% to 48% with 12.5% being ugly enough for cosmetic restoration. With surprise they found not one of the 3200 studies claiming benefit was high quality bias unlikely. Charles Fox EPA admitted in congressional testimony 2000 that The toxic smokestack scrubber pollutant used for fluoridation 90% of the time has not one ever chronic health or benefit study. Lots of studies for acute toxicity showing it 25 times more toxic for killing rats on the LD50 scale then the natural calcium fluoride the government claims they are just topping off. Rats get warfin now . Peta protects dumb animals not humans as our government is trusted for that. Strange how government can screw things up so severely. Go to pubmed.com and see a study that shows clearly that most dentists have no clue on the current science of fluoride. Yoder K.M. 2007. Fluoride ignorant people should not force worthless ingested fluoride on all. It violates all medical practices and standards. Informed consent please. Go to nteu280.org and read 8 position papers why 19 EPA unions as of 29 Feb 2008 want immediate fluoridation moratorium with congressional investigations into the fraud. Also to treat fluoride like arsenic and lead with a goal of ZERO. Real science please.

At city commissions the health department will march out 6 health department people and a lineup of dentists. It is rare that a current science study is mentioned. It is all public relations. Monday a Alamo Heights Texas commissioner who had researched fluoride science corrected false statements with correct science instead of accepting blindly false claims. Truth is devistating to lies and leaves the promoter stammering confused. All voted not to fluoridate based on science. Poughkeepsie NY this year voted to stop 50 years of fluoridation after asking many tough questions on safety and benefit and not a single answer in waiting a year. Not a single of the 33 chemical suppliers would state H2SiF6 safe for humans or having benefit. Unless the health department can state policy most stay silent on current specific studies.For good reason as they show fluoridation worse then worthless. The York review 2000 showed dental fluorisis tripled from 15% to 48% with 12.5% being ugly enough for cosmetic restoration. With surprise they found not one of the 3200 studies claiming benefit was high quality bias unlikely. Charles Fox EPA admitted in congressional testimony 2000 that The toxic smokestack scrubber pollutant used for fluoridation 90% of the time has not one ever chronic health or benefit study. Lots of studies for acute toxicity showing it 25 times more toxic for killing rats on the LD50 scale then the natural calcium fluoride the government claims they are just topping off. Rats get warfin now . Peta protects dumb animals not humans as our government is trusted for that. Strange how government can screw things up so severely. Go to pubmed.com and see a study that shows clearly that most dentists have no clue on the current science of fluoride. Yoder K.M. 2007. Fluoride ignorant people should not force worthless ingested fluoride on all. It violates all medical practices and standards. Informed consent please. Go to nteu280.org and read 8 position papers why 19 EPA unions as of 29 Feb 2008 want immediate fluoridation moratorium with congressional investigations into the fraud. Also to treat fluoride like arsenic and lead with a goal of ZERO. Real science please. Jim Schultz

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Andy Locks Heath says...
4:35pm Thu 11 Sep 08

Jim Schultz wrote:
In the US it is very rare that the health department will consent to a true debate. The knowledge level of most even at the national level is so science deficient they are quickly proven fools and deceivers. They do much better in controlled statement situations. They do very well at simple policy statements and lists of endorsements. Do not expect real answers with data and science. The proof of benefit and safety for H2SiF6 does not exist. Not one study done yet.They tested only purified sodium fluoride in double distilled deionized water not toxic waste with 20 unmentioned contaminates,many radioactive.

What the hell are you talking about "radioactive toxic waste" - have you been watching too many X Files episodes? You illustrate perfectly why people like you are not allowed to disrupt events. People only have to ask themselves "Qui bono?" "Who gains?" What do authorities have to gain from deliberately poisoning their own population? Answer nothing. So why would they do it? Answer - they don't. The truth is that the quantities of fluoride are so small as to make very little difference against the background of all other "contaminants" entering the body. Do you have actual evidence for your claims or do you just have anecdotes culled from your own selective internet searches. And what is your scientific qualification aside from being able to use google by the way?

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H.R.H. KING MUSH says...
4:46pm Thu 11 Sep 08

Andy:What do authorities have to gain from deliberately poisoning their own population?"

Check out any conspiracy website - it's easy for any totalitarian state to introduce 'chemical coshes' into the peasants' water supply. Why do you think that us Brits just lie back and do NOTHING about the madness of our leaders?

You can bet that most MPs, ministers and those in the know only drink bottled water - check it out!

Our tap water is bad enough with all the recycled oestrogen floating around - why - even I have 'man boobs'

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Andy Locks Heath says...
6:14pm Thu 11 Sep 08

I think your tongue is firmly in your cheek there KM!

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H.R.H. KING MUSH says...
6:45pm Thu 11 Sep 08

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
I think your tongue is firmly in your cheek there KM!

Maybe.......

PS Although I'm not a contortionist!

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Jim Schultz says...
6:59pm Thu 11 Sep 08

Andy Lock you speak strongly for being so ignorant of the source of the chemical used in fluoridation. The majority for the US is produced in Florida from the many Phosphate mines on the West side of the State. The mines in the north by Lake city have about a third of the radioactive content as down around Lakeland and south, Florida had either 6 or 7 uranium recovery units at the phosphate mines until about 1993 when the price of yellow cake uranium fell and they closed down. They had produced up to 75% of the uranium needs for the US but the AEC was happy to keep it sort of a stealth operation as most are not happy to work or live in a area with higher radiation exposure. Many workers especially during the Manhatten Project days were without knowledge working in high radiation exposure areas. But more were killed by fluoride then radiation as due the the huge amounts of fluoride needed for making bomb grade U235. Millions of tons with a secret AEC clearance. Read the Fluoride Deception by Bryson if you wish to see the many pages of documents once secret but released in 1993.
Please obtain a copy of AWWA b703-06 which is the current standard for H2SiF6 and it has a specification sheet which takes up a entire page listing contaminates and most are radioactive decay products. The EPA had denied that radiation existed from this uranium mine product until the early 90's when George Glasser researched and gave this information to the EPA and State of Florida. When the State of Florida asked NSF(testing agency)they told them it would not release that information. The uranium and breakdown products are all left in the products and also in the mega huge mountains of too radioactive to use phosphogypsum waste piles which are also very acidic making them more leaching. Lousiana is the only state that controls highly radioactive things like radium scale which must frequently be beaten ,pounded and removed by hand by workmen who in the past never used any protective wear. Most died of cancers,lung diseases,and heart conditions without collecting pensions. This radium is just buried in the waste piles with no records. The EPA also admits leaching of this toxic brew into the groundwater and had dumped huge amounts of very toxic sludge water during the 2004 year of hurricanes to keep the waste ponds on top the piles from overflowing. One huge sinkhole open on one waste pile and emptied the entire pond into the states groundwater supply. Opps. By the way no agency in the US has ever one done a chronic safety,health or benefit study on H2SiF6. Charles fox EPA was forced to admit this in 2000 Calvert congressional investigation. You can see a 9 Minute video of the EPA Union DR Hirzy asking at that investigation for a halt to fluoridation and full Investigations. No one should have to suffer ignorant fools like yourself. I believe you can become a better person but the question is do you really want to take the effort. Please do not think medication without consent with never tested contaminated waste that even in a purified form has no meaningful ingested value. Good Day Jim Schultz

Andy Lock you speak strongly for being so ignorant of the source of the chemical used in fluoridation. The majority for the US is produced in Florida from the many Phosphate mines on the West side of the State. The mines in the north by Lake city have about a third of the radioactive content as down around Lakeland and south, Florida had either 6 or 7 uranium recovery units at the phosphate mines until about 1993 when the price of yellow cake uranium fell and they closed down. They had produced up to 75% of the uranium needs for the US but the AEC was happy to keep it sort of a stealth operation as most are not happy to work or live in a area with higher radiation exposure. Many workers especially during the Manhatten Project days were without knowledge working in high radiation exposure areas. But more were killed by fluoride then radiation as due the the huge amounts of fluoride needed for making bomb grade U235. Millions of tons with a secret AEC clearance. Read the Fluoride Deception by Bryson if you wish to see the many pages of documents once secret but released in 1993. Please obtain a copy of AWWA b703-06 which is the current standard for H2SiF6 and it has a specification sheet which takes up a entire page listing contaminates and most are radioactive decay products. The EPA had denied that radiation existed from this uranium mine product until the early 90's when George Glasser researched and gave this information to the EPA and State of Florida. When the State of Florida asked NSF(testing agency)they told them it would not release that information. The uranium and breakdown products are all left in the products and also in the mega huge mountains of too radioactive to use phosphogypsum waste piles which are also very acidic making them more leaching. Lousiana is the only state that controls highly radioactive things like radium scale which must frequently be beaten ,pounded and removed by hand by workmen who in the past never used any protective wear. Most died of cancers,lung diseases,and heart conditions without collecting pensions. This radium is just buried in the waste piles with no records. The EPA also admits leaching of this toxic brew into the groundwater and had dumped huge amounts of very toxic sludge water during the 2004 year of hurricanes to keep the waste ponds on top the piles from overflowing. One huge sinkhole open on one waste pile and emptied the entire pond into the states groundwater supply. Opps. By the way no agency in the US has ever one done a chronic safety,health or benefit study on H2SiF6. Charles fox EPA was forced to admit this in 2000 Calvert congressional investigation. You can see a 9 Minute video of the EPA Union DR Hirzy asking at that investigation for a halt to fluoridation and full Investigations. No one should have to suffer ignorant fools like yourself. I believe you can become a better person but the question is do you really want to take the effort. Please do not think medication without consent with never tested contaminated waste that even in a purified form has no meaningful ingested value. Good Day Jim Schultz Jim Schultz

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Jim Schultz says...
8:01pm Thu 11 Sep 08

To Andy Locks Heath- Three years ago I had the same faith that fluoridation was a no brainer that must benefit everyone as everyone knew it true . How could we not trust our dentist who we allow to poke us with sharp instruments in our face eye to eye. I thought the health food story gy way full of you know what when he suggest my severe joint pain could be caused by fluoridated water because I drink so much water. I researched it some and discovered my two gallons a day was far above the top 1% risk group and it would be expected over time by the EPA to have joint pain with 10mg per day over 10 to 20 years. ( their data not mine) They know this exists but doctors know nothing about it and only the third stage of severe fused spine is considered a medical effect for the purposes of the law.
Long story short my pains went away in about three weeks to my extreme disbelief. I got my facts and studies and the city did not care in the least but did change their rules so I could never speak on the topic again just as you suggest as a excellent idea. Others objected to first admendment violations and the policy was ended months later.
I do not suggest the government intent is to harm but merely to follow policy established by industry and trade association money. The Fluoride Deception shows in great detail with great documentation to show intent and policy of agencies altered to continue a worthless policy of ingested cumulative toxins. Tour one of the good sites with a open mind and see lots of government studies the government wishes do not exist as they trash this policy to the foundation. This is just common sense if you look at the data. Thank you for the attack for it builds interest might get someone to take the next step if just to make a better attack. I do sometimes poke back to make things more lively and have found we agree on more then disagree at the end of the debate. Hopefully we all become better people as I still have some way to go. Think I will go for a walk on the beach and enjoy the sun,sand and surf. Saving the world is such tough work. Tongue in cheek firmly. Have a good one yourself. Jim Schultz

To Andy Locks Heath- Three years ago I had the same faith that fluoridation was a no brainer that must benefit everyone as everyone knew it true . How could we not trust our dentist who we allow to poke us with sharp instruments in our face eye to eye. I thought the health food story gy way full of you know what when he suggest my severe joint pain could be caused by fluoridated water because I drink so much water. I researched it some and discovered my two gallons a day was far above the top 1% risk group and it would be expected over time by the EPA to have joint pain with 10mg per day over 10 to 20 years. ( their data not mine) They know this exists but doctors know nothing about it and only the third stage of severe fused spine is considered a medical effect for the purposes of the law. Long story short my pains went away in about three weeks to my extreme disbelief. I got my facts and studies and the city did not care in the least but did change their rules so I could never speak on the topic again just as you suggest as a excellent idea. Others objected to first admendment violations and the policy was ended months later. I do not suggest the government intent is to harm but merely to follow policy established by industry and trade association money. The Fluoride Deception shows in great detail with great documentation to show intent and policy of agencies altered to continue a worthless policy of ingested cumulative toxins. Tour one of the good sites with a open mind and see lots of government studies the government wishes do not exist as they trash this policy to the foundation. This is just common sense if you look at the data. Thank you for the attack for it builds interest might get someone to take the next step if just to make a better attack. I do sometimes poke back to make things more lively and have found we agree on more then disagree at the end of the debate. Hopefully we all become better people as I still have some way to go. Think I will go for a walk on the beach and enjoy the sun,sand and surf. Saving the world is such tough work. Tongue in cheek firmly. Have a good one yourself. Jim Schultz Jim Schultz

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The Real Denzil says...
9:17pm Thu 11 Sep 08

H.R.H. KING MUSH wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:I think your tongue is firmly in your cheek there KM! Maybe.......PS Although I'm not a contortionist!

At last, he admits he's talking out of his ****.
the rest of the issue would do okay though. All the soap dodgers in Soton need all the help they can get to look after their teeth. save on NHS dental fees anyway.

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JB Soton says...
10:42pm Thu 11 Sep 08

I was born and bred in soton, I have family etc dotted about all over the place!
Actually been living in Gosport for the past 12yrs....My reason for boring you with this is Gosport has fluoride in its water, Myself my children and now my Grandchildren are perfectly well and happy Thank you. The only person that is making any sense on here is Andy.
There is only a tiny amount going into your water and you will NOT grow a third eye etc,etc, I think you all watch to much of the 'Simpsons'It really wont harm you, and in cases of 'Chavland' estates etc it WILL be of some benefit.

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JB Soton says...
11:34pm Thu 11 Sep 08

Jim Schutlz....Man do you need a holiday!

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Jim Schultz says...
12:12am Fri 12 Sep 08

If there is such a tiny amount in the water that it can not have a negative effect ---Well just how can that tiny amount have a positive effect either. The CDc and ADA both admit fluoride has a topical effect not the claimed benefit on forming teeth in infants once the theory. They really chose not to share this with the public as it makes ingesting fluoride appear stupid. I expect to waste my time with 90% of the people who find new knowledge not worth the effort. Trust government with you health and life and they decide your worth. Do you believe that 11 EPA science unions with 7000 professionals asked for immediate moratorium in 2005 and congressional investigations into the fraud. fluoridealert.org has the video on the home page if you care enough to look. Ignorance can be bliss. Jim

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JB Soton says...
12:38am Fri 12 Sep 08

Jim Schultz wrote:
If there is such a tiny amount in the water that it can not have a negative effect ---Well just how can that tiny amount have a positive effect either. The CDc and ADA both admit fluoride has a topical effect not the claimed benefit on forming teeth in infants once the theory. They really chose not to share this with the public as it makes ingesting fluoride appear stupid. I expect to waste my time with 90% of the people who find new knowledge not worth the effort. Trust government with you health and life and they decide your worth. Do you believe that 11 EPA science unions with 7000 professionals asked for immediate moratorium in 2005 and congressional investigations into the fraud. fluoridealert.org has the video on the home page if you care enough to look. Ignorance can be bliss. Jim

As the real Denzil would say............Jog on !

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Andre says...
1:26am Fri 12 Sep 08

It is so very beneficial to dump toxic diluted industrial waste into the drinking water.

The fact that an open & honest debate is not allowed speaks volumes in itself!!

Obviously it's so URGENT, the populace is forcibly medicated, no matter what the cost!

It's a wonderful idea to get the masses medicated via the water supply, to ensure they get to bath & shower in it + to better govern them!

People are warned to be VIGILANT, there's more going on here than it seems...

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Andy Locks Heath says...
8:03am Fri 12 Sep 08

Andre I agree there is a principle at stake over forced medication but that is no excuse for bad science. Look at Jim - he quotes tons of information but practically all of it is irrelevant to the case. When he states some random ailment and decides that fluoride must be the cause, are we just supposed to accept that and call it "science?" As for you telling is there's more going on than we we think, what is your theory - company directors are actually space aliens? They are all in league to turn "ordinary people" into slaves so they can play golf all day? I mean, you tell us them What do you think is going on? Don;t go all X Files on us! Show motive, benefit, method, and outcome. Oh, and evidence, if it's not too much trouble. Sadly everyone can see why the SHA and their speculative scaremongering have been kept well away.

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haf says...
9:21am Fri 12 Sep 08

There was a full debate on the IOM last year when they had their consultation before deciding to reject the proposal. It is on video and takes an hour to see. If you really want to know everthing about the subject it is at http://video.google.
com/videoplay?docid=
82194292805035136

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South Central SHA says...
9:46am Fri 12 Sep 08

"Chairman of Hampshire Against Fluoridation John Spottiswoode said the refusal to let his organisation present at the drop-in events is further evidence the consultation is a “sham”. "

The consultation is completely open and transparent and no decision has been made. The SHA is committed to hearing what both sides of this debate have to say. As such the SHA has invited Mr Spottiswoode's organisation and the National Pure Water Association to sit on the panel for the 'Question Time' style events the SHA will be hosting. These events will be chaired independently and Mr Spottiswoode has confirmed he will attend.

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haf says...
12:30pm Fri 12 Sep 08

The South Central SHA know why John said it was sham. Hampshire Against Fluoridation put on two drop in days in Totton to show the folly of fluoridation where we invited you to join us and you did send leaflets but when we asked if we could attend your drop ins the answer was NO.

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Lib Lob says...
2:14pm Fri 12 Sep 08

Nazi concentration camps used fluoridated water to suppress the will and vigor of inmates.

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Frankacne says...
2:27pm Wed 26 Nov 08

Anyone who posts on this board saying how wonderful they think fluoride is, either has taken too much of the muck for too long or alternatively not enough. If the later is the case then they can have my share of it gratis. If they dont like handouts of course, they can get additional supplies from the chemists shop.

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