Hospital’s treatment of Harold was ‘a disgrace’ (From Daily Echo)

A hospital has met the targets laid down by the Department of Health and because the patient is elderly and his family just left him in A&E, it is a disgrace.
Start living in the real world where we all have to be responsible for ourselves and our families. My father is elderly and often needs help to and from the hospital - my sister and I give him this help willingly and without expecting the overstretched NHS to look after him for us

Of the Ilk wrote:
A hospital has met the targets laid down by the Department of Health and because the patient is elderly and his family just left him in A&E, it is a disgrace.
Start living in the real world where we all have to be responsible for ourselves and our families. My father is elderly and often needs help to and from the hospital - my sister and I give him this help willingly and without expecting the overstretched NHS to look after him for us

Sod meeting targets - how about some care?

They turfed him out at 4am for crying out loud.

His family were told he was expected to be in overnight and were not contacted when he was discharged, so saying they abandoned him is wide of the mark at best.

Let's hope none of your elderly relatives at shown the hospital door at four in the morning.

Bambi wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote: A hospital has met the targets laid down by the Department of Health and because the patient is elderly and his family just left him in A&E, it is a disgrace. Start living in the real world where we all have to be responsible for ourselves and our families. My father is elderly and often needs help to and from the hospital - my sister and I give him this help willingly and without expecting the overstretched NHS to look after him for us

Sod meeting targets - how about some care? They turfed him out at 4am for crying out loud. His family were told he was expected to be in overnight and were not contacted when he was discharged, so saying they abandoned him is wide of the mark at best. Let's hope none of your elderly relatives at shown the hospital door at four in the morning.

His family were told, by the out of hours GP, it would appear after consuming 2 glassess of wine. This was after spending time with him and calling the OOH service twice and then returning home.

It's not the hospital that is to blame they had done their bit. The people to blame are the family members whom after calling for a GP, and possibly knowing the gentleman may get admitted as he had been recently for the same, went home and consumed alcohol.

If Sandra Smith cared to listen to the news, ambulance services accross the country are receiving record levels of calls and thus are at breaking point. This man is an able boddied person and was cleared medically by professionals. A taxi was a suitable form of transport. Just the same as getting a taxi to go shopping or is that wrong to Sandra? Should there be ambulances made available for the elderly to go shopping?

Toeblunt, you don't seem to realise that emergency ambulances are completely different to emergency ambulances.

Besides, that wasn't my point. My point was they shouldn't have just turfed him out at 4am. Partially blind, disabled, 88-year-old shouldn't be having to find his own way home at that time.

Bambi wrote:
Toeblunt, you don't seem to realise that emergency ambulances are completely different to emergency ambulances. Besides, that wasn't my point. My point was they shouldn't have just turfed him out at 4am. Partially blind, disabled, 88-year-old shouldn't be having to find his own way home at that time.

Emergency ambulances are the same as emergency ambulances as far as I knew.

Why should they keep a patient in hospital occupying a bed when someone else, possible of the same age group, can use it.

I bet he uses public transport on a daily basis as do many other pentioners so using a taxi at 4 am is not a bad thing

If my father was unwell with the possibility of being sent to hospital, I would be with him throughout. If he needed to go to A&E, I would take him or, if an ambulance was needed for the transport, go with him. I would stay with him throughout his time in A&E, so if he were to be discharged at 4am, there would be no problem.

I also think this is disgusting.
Back in August my husband, who i admit is only 37, was admitted to hospital through A&E due to an unknown allergic reaction. The allergy had caused his face and mouth to swell. After being given an injection he was told he would have to be observed for atleast 6 hours. He was discharged from hospital at 3.30 in the morning and he also had to find he own way home, still feeling unwell. As this was an emregency you are not always prepared with money for a taxi and as we have two young children i was unable to stay with him to bring him home. He had been placed on a side ward which had empty beds, would it really have hurt them to keep him there for a few more hours by which time i could have collected him. Comments from people who think you should stay by their bedsides really annoy me as not everyones situations are the same

My daughter sat with me in the A&E for several hours, including being 'seen to' which was excellent and caring, but somehow I think there was a breakdown of communication. Who knows, the gentleman may be fiercely independent and hates fuss - but I would worry if there is no one home to make sure he got there safely. It would be good idea for several beds made available in a side ward with the understanding that patients would be picked up the following morning. There is always two sides to everything.

goard

mel,soton wrote:
I also think this is disgusting. Back in August my husband, who i admit is only 37, was admitted to hospital through A&E due to an unknown allergic reaction. The allergy had caused his face and mouth to swell. After being given an injection he was told he would have to be observed for atleast 6 hours. He was discharged from hospital at 3.30 in the morning and he also had to find he own way home, still feeling unwell. As this was an emregency you are not always prepared with money for a taxi and as we have two young children i was unable to stay with him to bring him home. He had been placed on a side ward which had empty beds, would it really have hurt them to keep him there for a few more hours by which time i could have collected him. Comments from people who think you should stay by their bedsides really annoy me as not everyones situations are the same

I agree with you mel not everyones situation is the same. Of course you couldn't go with him as your priority is to your children. The argument here is that his family went home after calling the OOH and consumed alcohol, a decision they took upon themselves and are shifting the blame.

The thing with A+E admissions is once you have been certified medically fit and you are a fully abled person i.e. you can mobilise then really it is your duty to find a way home. The hospital is not a hotel.

I assume you are able to drive so really, even though it's an inconveniance to yourself, you could have woken the kids up and collected your husband.

Tobeblunt wrote:

mel,soton wrote: I also think this is disgusting. Back in August my husband, who i admit is only 37, was admitted to hospital through A&E due to an unknown allergic reaction. The allergy had caused his face and mouth to swell. After being given an injection he was told he would have to be observed for atleast 6 hours. He was discharged from hospital at 3.30 in the morning and he also had to find he own way home, still feeling unwell. As this was an emregency you are not always prepared with money for a taxi and as we have two young children i was unable to stay with him to bring him home. He had been placed on a side ward which had empty beds, would it really have hurt them to keep him there for a few more hours by which time i could have collected him. Comments from people who think you should stay by their bedsides really annoy me as not everyones situations are the same

I agree with you mel not everyones situation is the same. Of course you couldn't go with him as your priority is to your children. The argument here is that his family went home after calling the OOH and consumed alcohol, a decision they took upon themselves and are shifting the blame. The thing with A+E admissions is once you have been certified medically fit and you are a fully abled person i.e. you can mobilise then really it is your duty to find a way home. The hospital is not a hotel. I assume you are able to drive so really, even though it's an inconveniance to yourself, you could have woken the kids up and collected your husband.

Toeblunt you just beat me to the punch.I agree with you totally.Yes everyone has different curcumstances but what would you like the hospital to do take a survay just as your leaving to check wether you can be collected and then if not to provide transport?? Surely then that would became favouritism and then that would create uproar. Whatever the personal reasons are they are not relevent.The hospital is not a taxi rank!!

Transport manager of the hospital has stated “there are clear guidelines issued by the Department of Health regarding rules for the authorisation of transport” so why criticise the hospital when the cause of the problem are the government we democratically voted for?

This senior citizen is the victim of the culture of targets and strict financial controls decided by the political masters and dictated by the pen pushers in London. They are the ones who are forcing these uncaring and immoral practices.

Some contributors are unfairly judgemental about the family members of this person, with whom most of us sympathise.

Sadly there are many other victims of this system, only way to stop these occurrences is to put pressures on our over paid and out of touch Members of Parliament.

Yes i could have woken my children up and gone to get my husband. My point was the family shouldnt be blamed for going home and relaxing if they were under the impression he was to be in overnight. As for them having a couple of glasses of wine its hardly a crime. Maybe we should be concentrating on the idiots who drink themselves stupid and take up hospital beds sleeping off the alcohol when the genuinely sick people are being turfed out.

mel,soton wrote:
Yes i could have woken my children up and gone to get my husband. My point was the family shouldnt be blamed for going home and relaxing if they were under the impression he was to be in overnight. As for them having a couple of glasses of wine its hardly a crime. Maybe we should be concentrating on the idiots who drink themselves stupid and take up hospital beds sleeping off the alcohol when the genuinely sick people are being turfed out.

They claimed to have returned home and consumed alcohol before the OOH GP arrived and were given the option to call for an ambulance. Even when the GP did visit he asked if they could transport him to A+E. So why didn't they do either earlier on?

As for people complaining about the out of hours service. Due to unforeseen sudden influx in patients requiring their service there is inevitably going to be an increase in waiting time.

I am sorry but some of the comments here are, on both sides, complete nonsense and I am for the first time provoked to respond within a forum such as this. Although working within these frontline services for many years that a number of you appear to think so little of I have also been a patient on a number of occasions so I am well qualified to see both sides of the debate. As a patient I can agree that sometimes the care and attention provided (by ambulance, GP services in and out of hours and the hospital) have not been of the highest standard and there have been times that I have felt very much like a statistic or an "inpatient care episode". However, on every occasion the vast majority of the staff that have dealt with me have been doing their absolute best to provide me with that high standard of care. Yes this gentleman should probably not have been discharged at 04.00 in the morning without a clear understanding of his home circumstances and yes he probably should have been kept until morning and sent home after breakfast. However, those of you slating the various sections of the NHS from this story do not know that an assessment of the circumstances he was being discharged to was not completed and you do not know if further care from his own GP or other services was not forthcoming later on the day of discharge. Equally you are not in a position to slate the relatives (as the son in law quite rightly indicated) and in general their should never be an assumption that the relatives are not doing their level best - they usually are! As a an employee of these services, I would accept that there are times when the patient does not get the standard of care that we want to provide but this is not the norm! There are many reasons why this high standard of care is not always achieved but I would point out that the healthcare workers you are dealing with will almost always be doing their absolute best to to ensure you or your relative do receive the highest standard of care. Whilst there are resourcing and other issues that are the responsibility of politicians (there is already a semi-privatisation of sections of the NHS and are most of you happy to pay yet more tax to pay for improvements?)Ultima
tely you as service users can have a positive impact on that which you receive. Over a number of years your expectations for healthcare services have become rather the same as for shopping or your leisure needs. Yes healthcare services need to continue to develop and respond to your needs and they certainly do not get it right all the time but they have no chance if your expectations continue to be completely out of line with what is realistic! Attendances at Accident and Emergency for problems that are anything but, walk in centres not being used to their full potential because you have to travel an extra ten minutes to the one without a queue, GP out of hours services with patient after patient refusing to travel to see a doctor for an appointment asserting their "right" for a home visit (and usually expecting this to be only a little shorter than the time an ambulance would take to arrive). All of these services are overstretched, are doing their level best to provide you proper care but they need you to help them in doing this. PLEASE do not call 999 for anything less than what you believe needs EMERGENCY care, Do see your GP during surgery hours for less urgent problems (and yes you may have to take time off work or be otherwise inconvenienced), please try not to shout at or verbally abuse the healthcare worker that is trying to do their best for you and the very many other patients that need their help, do try everything you can to attend when you are offered an appointment to see an out of hours GP within a short time rather than insisting on an inappropriate home visit (and then be surprised when you are told because the problem is less urgent it can take up to six or even more hours), do make sure you have enough of your routine prescription medicines over the holiday period, do add what you need for a well stocked medicine cabinet at home to your Christmas shopping list. Apologies for the rant but this should be shared responsibility - those that work for these services will always try to do better but the public must do the same in helping us to do this and helping themselves. Merry Christmas and a peaceful new year to you all