Health regulators will not examine controversial decision (From Daily Echo)

after hearing what i heard, why am i not surprise,

If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

This is knee jerk reaction by the body of establishment.

So let us hope case is heard by a judge who believes in justice and not influenced by the membership of any shady/secret organisation like Freemasons.

End of the day the best way to stop adding highly toxic fluoride to drinking water is to organise mass campaign against the crazy scheme. So far campaigners against it have done very well considering now Echo whose editor had written “Doctor knows best” has changed its mind and is supporting the anti campaign. Lewis the Tory MP and well known Lib-Dem opportunist David Harrison have also started backing the sensible stuff started by the Greens, and led by their prominent member John Spottiswoode.

seems the eu has already ruled fluridated water is not to be used with food,it wont happen.

Bartonian wrote:
If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

No it most certainly is not drastic. In fact to me it sounds like most reasonable response.

Power to the people!

Bartonian wrote:
If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

Great idea - If everyone didn't pay the water rates then they would soon throw this Fluoride thing out, but you would have to convince the entire affected population to do it for them to feel the pinch.

You would also have to prove that you had the money available to pay the bills, but you are withholding due to protest over being poisoned - it should be legal if you can prove you intend to pay once the dispute is resolved... I would be up for that!

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Bartonian wrote:
If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

No it most certainly is not drastic. In fact to me it sounds like most reasonable response.

Power to the people!

Well most of the "People" have not spoken, Paramjit. I know there is an excitable minority who see this is as an infringement of human rights etc and another paranoid bunch fuelled by incorrect and innacurate internet garbage who are convinced it is going to kill them. But then there are around 80% of the electorate who haven't voiced an opinion either way. Me - I don't believe the government are trying to kill me and I don't believe this is part of some kind of new world order conspiracy to medicate me against my will, and I'll bet you not one of us so much as gets ill from fluoride either - We've all been brushing our teeth with fluoridated toothpaste for decades FFS! I'm afraid we'll all continue to die of the same old usual boring old causes. Pass the Sunny Delight.

Nobody knows what most people die of - "kidney failure" on the death certificate doesn't explain the cause. Who knows what people in fluoridated areas are dying of? The SHA don't know and you don't either. How scary that the NHS appears to be acting on no scientific evidence whatsover.

andy we be ok we are getting on in years, the ones that we need to worry about are the ones that are very young and those that have yet to come in to the world, for those that will have the problems not us, the build up is a slow one.
reconmendation on to tooth paste is to spit it out, not to be consumed. and this is the safest type off fluoride

Andy Locks Heath wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Bartonian wrote:
If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

No it most certainly is not drastic. In fact to me it sounds like most reasonable response.

Power to the people!

Well most of the "People" have not spoken, Paramjit. I know there is an excitable minority who see this is as an infringement of human rights etc and another paranoid bunch fuelled by incorrect and innacurate internet garbage who are convinced it is going to kill them. But then there are around 80% of the electorate who haven't voiced an opinion either way. Me - I don't believe the government are trying to kill me and I don't believe this is part of some kind of new world order conspiracy to medicate me against my will, and I'll bet you not one of us so much as gets ill from fluoride either - We've all been brushing our teeth with fluoridated toothpaste for decades FFS! I'm afraid we'll all continue to die of the same old usual boring old causes. Pass the Sunny Delight.

There are consciously thinking people that have gone to a lot of time and effort, and using logical reasoning to be informed on this issue. Again, your comments portray people as a lunatic fringe minority that jump on any band wagon going. This is not about infighting, and "you're right & I'm wrong". At the end of the day, plenty is wrong in this world and politicians are not fixing the issues, peoples rights are clearly being eroded, as if we can not take personal responsibility for our own lives. Plenty can and want to, this flies in the face of personal freedoms and choice.

Fluoride in toothpaste does not equal the stuff going in to the water supply, that comment suggests you have done no studying on the topic and hardly helps the situation.

Cognitive dissonance keeps us stuck and unable to go forward.

Andy Locks Heath wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Bartonian wrote: If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

No it most certainly is not drastic. In fact to me it sounds like most reasonable response. Power to the people!

Well most of the "People" have not spoken, Paramjit. I know there is an excitable minority who see this is as an infringement of human rights etc and another paranoid bunch fuelled by incorrect and innacurate internet garbage who are convinced it is going to kill them. But then there are around 80% of the electorate who haven't voiced an opinion either way. Me - I don't believe the government are trying to kill me and I don't believe this is part of some kind of new world order conspiracy to medicate me against my will, and I'll bet you not one of us so much as gets ill from fluoride either - We've all been brushing our teeth with fluoridated toothpaste for decades FFS! I'm afraid we'll all continue to die of the same old usual boring old causes. Pass the Sunny Delight.

At the end of the day the simple fact is,,,alot of people DO NOT WANT FLUORIDATION OF THERE WATER.....for various reasons.So therefore make it available for those who DO WANT IT ie;Andy Locks Heath ...as you dont seem to have a problem with it,i believe we should ere on the side of caution.I doubt very much that any deaths with even a hint of Fluoride related contributing factors would ever be allowed to become PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE anyway.

HowDictorial wrote:

Andy Locks Heath wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Bartonian wrote: If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

No it most certainly is not drastic. In fact to me it sounds like most reasonable response. Power to the people!

Well most of the "People" have not spoken, Paramjit. I know there is an excitable minority who see this is as an infringement of human rights etc and another paranoid bunch fuelled by incorrect and innacurate internet garbage who are convinced it is going to kill them. But then there are around 80% of the electorate who haven't voiced an opinion either way. Me - I don't believe the government are trying to kill me and I don't believe this is part of some kind of new world order conspiracy to medicate me against my will, and I'll bet you not one of us so much as gets ill from fluoride either - We've all been brushing our teeth with fluoridated toothpaste for decades FFS! I'm afraid we'll all continue to die of the same old usual boring old causes. Pass the Sunny Delight.

At the end of the day the simple fact is,,,alot of people DO NOT WANT FLUORIDATION OF THERE WATER.....for various reasons.So therefore make it available for those who DO WANT IT ie;Andy Locks Heath ...as you dont seem to have a problem with it,i believe we should ere on the side of caution.I doubt very much that any deaths with even a hint of Fluoride related contributing factors would ever be allowed to become PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE anyway.

A lot of people feel sick and tired by the way certain people want to play around with our water supply. This is much the same way as supermarket lobbyists, who want to play around with our food by genetically modifying it. Like water, the quality of our food today has declined dramatically and health experts should realise that all the processed rubbish that we fill up our troleys with, has had a detrimental effect on the nation's health. If they think that flouride will improve public health, they better think again. It just shows that once again, corporate intersts are in charge of our lives, and i wish that, along with boycotting our water bills, we could send home the message to large supermarkets by boycotting the rubbish they sell in their mega-markets.

Excellent - it's like kicking a wasps nest and out comes all the ill informed tripe. It's like listening to the David Icke fan club, everything is part of some great conspiracy. Bartonian is still on about "them" - these mysterious people whose sole job is to control our lives in secret - while demonstrating a profound inability to realise that horticulturalists have been genetically modifying plants for centuries by selective cross pollenation, seed selection - and what do think you splicing a cutting onto another plant does to the seeds eh? You mention that our shopping trolleys are already full up with processed rubbish that we devour without thought- thereby rubbishing your own point about why fluroidation should cause so much angst. How many here eat meat? Most people I expect. Ever thought about the growth hormones in the meat that you ingest into yourselves every day, yet how many of you are still going to tuck into a burger or a sausage this evening knowing that it is made from the delicious spinal cord of the animal plus some nice blood plasma for that important meaty flavour. Add in some hormones plus the ground up meal from other dead aninmals that they were fed on and your body is in for a real feast. And you worry about fluoride! Like I say of all the things to worry about why pick something outside the top 1000 and get worked up into a panic by it.

andy spinal cords and heads (a oart from the tongues) do dont get eaten at all now days and have not for a long time, they dye the heads and cords along with the hoofs then are burded, they dont even put them into animal feeds been like that now for at lest 10 years.

Pardon me. Testicles and eyeballs instead .... and a nice handful of growth hormones and dyes courtesy of Hoffmann La Roche. The point remains the same. And yes I will be eating meat tonight - but I don't cry myself to sleep with fear over speculation as some here appear to. I worry about things in the order of their probability of impacting me. I wonder how many people signed the fluoride petition who drink and smoke, are overweight and take no excercise?

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Pardon me. Testicles and eyeballs instead .... and a nice handful of growth hormones and dyes courtesy of Hoffmann La Roche. The point remains the same. And yes I will be eating meat tonight - but I don't cry myself to sleep with fear over speculation as some here appear to. I worry about things in the order of their probability of impacting me. I wonder how many people signed the fluoride petition who drink and smoke, are overweight and take no excercise?

Wonder how many people have too much time on their hands in the day to make vacous comments like you evolution Andy.

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Pardon me. Testicles and eyeballs instead .... and a nice handful of growth hormones and dyes courtesy of Hoffmann La Roche. The point remains the same. And yes I will be eating meat tonight - but I don't cry myself to sleep with fear over speculation as some here appear to. I worry about things in the order of their probability of impacting me. I wonder how many people signed the fluoride petition who drink and smoke, are overweight and take no excercise?

Its all down to CHOICE...
You chooose what you purchase & pay for,if you dont want it you dont buy it!!!
Fluoridation is a totally different kettle of fish as they say.

HowDictorial wrote:

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Pardon me. Testicles and eyeballs instead .... and a nice handful of growth hormones and dyes courtesy of Hoffmann La Roche. The point remains the same. And yes I will be eating meat tonight - but I don't cry myself to sleep with fear over speculation as some here appear to. I worry about things in the order of their probability of impacting me. I wonder how many people signed the fluoride petition who drink and smoke, are overweight and take no excercise?

Its all down to CHOICE...
You chooose what you purchase & pay for,if you dont want it you dont buy it!!!
Fluoridation is a totally different kettle of fish as they say.

Exactly. So if you choose to buy of your own free will things that kill you, make you fat, unfit and shorten your life it hardly behooves you to complain about homeopathy in water does it?

Ah you don't believe in evolution, do you? That really does mark you down as a cretin. Well if we are to have fluoride perhaps it's God's will so I guess you'd better shut up and let "him" get on with it

Andy Locks Heath wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Bartonian wrote: If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

No it most certainly is not drastic. In fact to me it sounds like most reasonable response. Power to the people!

Well most of the "People" have not spoken, Paramjit. I know there is an excitable minority who see this is as an infringement of human rights etc and another paranoid bunch fuelled by incorrect and innacurate internet garbage who are convinced it is going to kill them. But then there are around 80% of the electorate who haven't voiced an opinion either way. Me - I don't believe the government are trying to kill me and I don't believe this is part of some kind of new world order conspiracy to medicate me against my will, and I'll bet you not one of us so much as gets ill from fluoride either - We've all been brushing our teeth with fluoridated toothpaste for decades FFS! I'm afraid we'll all continue to die of the same old usual boring old causes. Pass the Sunny Delight.

Dear Andy
Under our democratic system, which many like to brag that it is better than the rest of the world, we elect our representatives to parliament and local councils on the basis of first past the post. Those who fail to exercise their right to vote are not counted against the winning candidates. It will be pure hypocrisy if SHA is allowed to get away with applying different standard i.e. counting those who decided not respond to the so called consultation as fluoride fans.

I have stated before that I am not a scientist, so as a lay person my knowledge may be limited. But my main fear is the accidents, which can happen. So I am not willing to take chances.

Let us face the facts, world was assured Three Mile Island, Bhopal and Sovaso were all super safe, till all of them including Chernobyl had accidents. On top of that as has been reported most recently in Australia well above so called safe limits of fluoride got added to the drinking water. Yes by accident, as we are told. Now nobody is willing to tell us what the long term effects of that mistake will be.

I respect your right to hold opposing views, but please do not start treating many well informed democratic people as mugs, just because they do not sing from the same hymn sheet as your good self.

Kind regards

Andy,

There are also a lot of people, like me, that simply want the application of Evidence Based Medicine.

There is NOT enough evidence to make a judgement on safety or efficacy. Proper research needs to be done before an objective decision can be made. You strike me as the kind of person who would read Ben Goldacre - see what he has to say on it.

Until such research is done, any decision made will be utterly arbitrary, and thus unethical.

Oh, and I don't want a flippin referendum on it either. Straw polls of uninformed people are not evidence.

As I've said before perhaps it would be better if people improved their oral hygene by cleaning their teeth more regularly

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Andy Locks Heath wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Bartonian wrote: If everyone who is against this, refused to pay their water rates then pressure would be put on these authorities. Sounds drastIc, but it could be the only way to make an effective stand.

No it most certainly is not drastic. In fact to me it sounds like most reasonable response. Power to the people!

Well most of the "People" have not spoken, Paramjit. I know there is an excitable minority who see this is as an infringement of human rights etc and another paranoid bunch fuelled by incorrect and innacurate internet garbage who are convinced it is going to kill them. But then there are around 80% of the electorate who haven't voiced an opinion either way. Me - I don't believe the government are trying to kill me and I don't believe this is part of some kind of new world order conspiracy to medicate me against my will, and I'll bet you not one of us so much as gets ill from fluoride either - We've all been brushing our teeth with fluoridated toothpaste for decades FFS! I'm afraid we'll all continue to die of the same old usual boring old causes. Pass the Sunny Delight.

Dear Andy
Under our democratic system, which many like to brag that it is better than the rest of the world, we elect our representatives to parliament and local councils on the basis of first past the post. Those who fail to exercise their right to vote are not counted against the winning candidates. It will be pure hypocrisy if SHA is allowed to get away with applying different standard i.e. counting those who decided not respond to the so called consultation as fluoride fans.

I have stated before that I am not a scientist, so as a lay person my knowledge may be limited. But my main fear is the accidents, which can happen. So I am not willing to take chances.

Let us face the facts, world was assured Three Mile Island, Bhopal and Sovaso were all super safe, till all of them including Chernobyl had accidents. On top of that as has been reported most recently in Australia well above so called safe limits of fluoride got added to the drinking water. Yes by accident, as we are told. Now nobody is willing to tell us what the long term effects of that mistake will be.

I respect your right to hold opposing views, but please do not start treating many well informed democratic people as mugs, just because they do not sing from the same hymn sheet as your good self.

Kind regards

I agree with a lot of your points as always Paramjit but look, this was not a referendum it was a petition with biassed and unchallenged "facts" at is core- a petition does not give the chance to express any view other than that of the person thrusting it under your nose. Yes there are many flaws in our democratic process and one of the worst right now is this so called "local democracy" expressed through petitions, which is really just showing whether whether one group (or neighbourhood) can shot louder than its neighbour. Nothing to do with democracy at all. When there is a proper referendum then we can discuss its outcome but petitions can be dangerous and unsatisfactory attempts by well organised single issue obsessives and cranks to increase their influence and hijack public opinion. There are no safeguards against this.

Please note the proof below that fluoride in water damages teeth.

This is admitted in a dental patient brochure that was obtained from a dental surgery.

The brochure is titled, 'Patient Brochure # 12 (PEB # 12) Fissure sealants and Preventive Resin Restorations'.

I quote: '...there have been some UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES (from fluoridated water). The one of relevance to this document refers to the way in which decay operates within a tooth. Fluoride causes a tremendous increase in the hardness of the enamel and a decrease in the solubility of the enamel in response to an acid attack caused by plaque. DECAY DOES NOT BECOME SO EVIDENT TO THE DENTIST as it did previously. Instead of the decay forming an open cavity which was easily visualised and easily felt by a sharp metal probe, decay now tends to start INSIDE a tooth BELOW THE ENAMEL. This is because the bacteria and saliva can get through at the very fine crack on the surface, we call the fissure and commence decaying at the softer portion of the tooth inside called the dentine. As a result of this, the decay can go undetected for many, many years and ends up in what dentists refer to now as a 'fluoride bomb'. The inside of the tooth is completely decayed but the outside looks fairly normal. Sometimes there is a slight discolouration evident through the enamel, but often the DECAY CANNOT EVEN BE FELT WITH A SHARP METAL PROBE- this is a major concern to dentists because for decades we have relied on diagnosis of decay by feeling the softening of the enamel with a metal probe. We can no longer do this'

The author of this article goes on to advise three treatments that have been devised to try to overcome these problems that have been caused by what the brochure's author says is 'fluoride in water'.

Groups of words have been capitalized above for to show the emphasis that was placed on these words in bold lettering in the brochure.

TO ORDER THIS BROCHURE IN AUSTRALIA: International phone + 61 2 6568 3773 or fax + 61 2 6568 3774.

TO ORDER THIS BROCHURE IN THE US: Phone 1877 227 0855 or fax 1877 227 0105.

Please note the proof below that fluoride in water damages teeth.

This is admitted in a dental patient brochure that was obtained from a dental surgery.

The brochure is titled, 'Patient Brochure # 12 (PEB # 12) Fissure sealants and Preventive Resin Restorations'.

I quote: '...there have been some UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES (from fluoridated water). The one of relevance to this document refers to the way in which decay operates within a tooth. Fluoride causes a tremendous increase in the hardness of the enamel and a decrease in the solubility of the enamel in response to an acid attack caused by plaque. DECAY DOES NOT BECOME SO EVIDENT TO THE DENTIST as it did previously. Instead of the decay forming an open cavity which was easily visualised and easily felt by a sharp metal probe, decay now tends to start INSIDE a tooth BELOW THE ENAMEL. This is because the bacteria and saliva can get through at the very fine crack on the surface, we call the fissure and commence decaying at the softer portion of the tooth inside called the dentine. As a result of this, the decay can go undetected for many, many years and ends up in what dentists refer to now as a 'fluoride bomb'. The inside of the tooth is completely decayed but the outside looks fairly normal. Sometimes there is a slight discolouration evident through the enamel, but often the DECAY CANNOT EVEN BE FELT WITH A SHARP METAL PROBE- this is a major concern to dentists because for decades we have relied on diagnosis of decay by feeling the softening of the enamel with a metal probe. We can no longer do this'

The author of this article goes on to advise three treatments that have been devised to try to overcome these problems that have been caused by what the brochure's author says is 'fluoride in water'.

Groups of words have been capitalized above for to show the emphasis that was placed on these words in bold lettering in the brochure.

TO ORDER THIS BROCHURE IN AUSTRALIA: International phone + 61 2 6568 3773 or fax + 61 2 6568 3774.

TO ORDER THIS BROCHURE IN THE US: Phone 1877 227 0855 or fax 1877 227 0105.