Council to axe 65 library jobs (From Daily Echo)

That is over £30k per position per annum! To read books, serve people and to say ssssssshhhhhhh!

I need to get me a job with a council - serving the public with public funds seems to have been earning those in the position outragious sums for doing naff-all

this is just the first of the cuts theres more to come.

southy wrote:
this is just the first of the cuts theres more to come.

Can we have some details of what is next. These were clearly planned during the reign of the socialists you so much admire.

timjim wrote:
That is over £30k per position per annum! To read books, serve people and to say ssssssshhhhhhh!

I need to get me a job with a council - serving the public with public funds seems to have been earning those in the position outragious sums for doing naff-all

If you use the second figure (which is the overspend) it works out at £20K a year. Then take on that a fair whack of that would be "on" costs over and above the salary, they aren't doing so well after all

The best way councils can save money is to scale back on management. They can also save a fortune but dispensing with things like Business Managers in schools and forcing senior teachers to take more classes (especially at secondary level where there are loads of teachers not actually teaching during the school day).

Ozmosis wrote:

timjim wrote: That is over £30k per position per annum! To read books, serve people and to say ssssssshhhhhhh! I need to get me a job with a council - serving the public with public funds seems to have been earning those in the position outragious sums for doing naff-all

If you use the second figure (which is the overspend) it works out at £20K a year. Then take on that a fair whack of that would be "on" costs over and above the salary, they aren't doing so well after all

I bet they get a better than average pay out being the public sector.If the council didnt waste money on stupid ventures and consultants there would be enough money to keep these people and services going.

can't remember the last time i went to the library

Adrian Smith wrote:

southy wrote:
this is just the first of the cuts theres more to come.

Can we have some details of what is next. These were clearly planned during the reign of the socialists you so much admire.

adrian dont you know any thing about politics, this is a tory council, (HCC) has been for a long while, now that they got a tory government theres going to be nothing in stopping them doing what ever they want.

plus adrian dont you know the different between a capitalist and a socialist,
1/ the socialist have never had full power of a government, and the best that you would find was back before the 80's when it was a mix of left and right politics
2/ the labour party now days is just another tory party, thats why they are known has nu-labour

I dont see the problem, with the internet etc the public library really has become an outmoded institution that we can no longer afford, the few times i have been into Totton library there has been more staff than customers and most of them were using the computers.
Anyway most of todays schoolchildren have a job to string a sentence together let alone read the type of book that the library holds.
I am sorry if this sounds crass but I am afraid that there is far too much money spent on arts galleries & Librariesfor the limited interest they attract when other services are being cut and some of this cash would be better spent on more widely used facilities

geoff51 wrote:
I dont see the problem, with the internet etc the public library really has become an outmoded institution that we can no longer afford, the few times i have been into Totton library there has been more staff than customers and most of them were using the computers. Anyway most of todays schoolchildren have a job to string a sentence together let alone read the type of book that the library holds. I am sorry if this sounds crass but I am afraid that there is far too much money spent on arts galleries & Librariesfor the limited interest they attract when other services are being cut and some of this cash would be better spent on more widely used facilities

libraries provide an important social function and should be preserved. The sad thing is that because money is so tight at the moment savings need to be made. We can't afford to buy all the books we want so libraries are a good option. Perhaps if they introduced a nominal charge of 50p a book they could boost the coffers?

Condor Man wrote:

geoff51 wrote: I dont see the problem, with the internet etc the public library really has become an outmoded institution that we can no longer afford, the few times i have been into Totton library there has been more staff than customers and most of them were using the computers. Anyway most of todays schoolchildren have a job to string a sentence together let alone read the type of book that the library holds. I am sorry if this sounds crass but I am afraid that there is far too much money spent on arts galleries & Librariesfor the limited interest they attract when other services are being cut and some of this cash would be better spent on more widely used facilities

libraries provide an important social function and should be preserved. The sad thing is that because money is so tight at the moment savings need to be made. We can't afford to buy all the books we want so libraries are a good option. Perhaps if they introduced a nominal charge of 50p a book they could boost the coffers?

The only social function I can see is somewhere to shelter out of the rain and waste a few hours, I dont see charging will encourage more users rather turn them away

geoff51 wrote:
I dont see the problem, with the internet etc the public library really has become an outmoded institution that we can no longer afford, the few times i have been into Totton library there has been more staff than customers and most of them were using the computers. Anyway most of todays schoolchildren have a job to string a sentence together let alone read the type of book that the library holds. I am sorry if this sounds crass but I am afraid that there is far too much money spent on arts galleries & Librariesfor the limited interest they attract when other services are being cut and some of this cash would be better spent on more widely used facilities

Unfortunately you are right,you do sound crass. Libraries are far from "outmoded institutions." Many thousands of people use libraries across this County daily for books,music,talking books,films etc.Children use libraries to aid study.Elderly people use libraries because many of them don't have computers.Disabled people,especially those with visual impairment use libraries for services such as large print and many other members of the community use libraries for their regular need for education, without the cost of having to buy a book or recording,perhaps because they couldn't afford to do so.
Your assumption that the Libraries service has "limited interest" is so far from the truth it exposes your complete ignorance of the subject.
If you have no need for Libraries because of financial stability or disinterest in the continually developing and modernising Libraries service,then that is your privilege,but don't assume the rest of the community shares your shallow perspective.

English defence league Hythe division wrote:

Ozmosis wrote:

timjim wrote: That is over £30k per position per annum! To read books, serve people and to say ssssssshhhhhhh! I need to get me a job with a council - serving the public with public funds seems to have been earning those in the position outragious sums for doing naff-all

If you use the second figure (which is the overspend) it works out at £20K a year. Then take on that a fair whack of that would be "on" costs over and above the salary, they aren't doing so well after all

I bet they get a better than average pay out being the public sector.If the council didnt waste money on stupid ventures and consultants there would be enough money to keep these people and services going.

I bet they don't. Not everything you hear about the public sector is true.
I can't argue with the money that has been spent on consultants though. HCC were recently on a sticky wicket regarding employing a consultant's colleagues where others may have been better value for money, but the internal review found no-one guilty of any misdeeds. LOL!

Its good to see Adrian (space) Smith back online, I dont always agree with what he says, but at least his views are considered and add thought to our debates.

Ah, I loved the library when I was unemployed, I was there nearly every day.
It's good to see the automated check out/check in system, there's clearly less need for all the staff in the central library. **** shame for the staff though :( IT will be next, now the systems are up and running. The Tory motto seems to be "Thanks for working so efficiently that you've put yourself out of a job!"

S/W: book-wife

southy wrote:
this is just the first of the cuts theres more to come.

Yes, there are more cuts to come.

Why? Because the Country is seriously broke and the only way to get solvent again is a choice between cuts in public spending or putting up taxes or a combination of the two.

Whatever service is cut there will be an outcry from those losing their jobs.

Cutting Library costs is a good place to start.

Libraries are an outdated concept and will suffer a similar fate to traditional print newspapers. Both are yesterday's ideas and old technology.

The lightening speed and increasingly universal access to the Internet for information is both the present and the future. Books and newspapers will have a place but an increasingly smaller and less relevant position in terms of distributing information.

clausentum wrote:

southy wrote:
this is just the first of the cuts theres more to come.

Yes, there are more cuts to come.

Why? Because the Country is seriously broke and the only way to get solvent again is a choice between cuts in public spending or putting up taxes or a combination of the two.

Whatever service is cut there will be an outcry from those losing their jobs.

Cutting Library costs is a good place to start.

Libraries are an outdated concept and will suffer a similar fate to traditional print newspapers. Both are yesterday's ideas and old technology.

The lightening speed and increasingly universal access to the Internet for information is both the present and the future. Books and newspapers will have a place but an increasingly smaller and less relevant position in terms of distributing information.

I'd reserve judgement on the long-term dominance of the Internet as a bastion of free information. If net neutrality is destroyed by content providers, we could well see ourselves being charged for the majority of information that we now take for granted. Newspaper websites (especially Murdoch-owned content) will be subscription only, and ISPs may start charging for different "content packages" in much the same way as Sky charges for different channels. If this happens, there will still be a place for public libraries. The Digital Economy Bill is just the beginning.

Gilmore wrote:

clausentum wrote:

southy wrote:
this is just the first of the cuts theres more to come.

Yes, there are more cuts to come.

Why? Because the Country is seriously broke and the only way to get solvent again is a choice between cuts in public spending or putting up taxes or a combination of the two.

Whatever service is cut there will be an outcry from those losing their jobs.

Cutting Library costs is a good place to start.

Libraries are an outdated concept and will suffer a similar fate to traditional print newspapers. Both are yesterday's ideas and old technology.

The lightening speed and increasingly universal access to the Internet for information is both the present and the future. Books and newspapers will have a place but an increasingly smaller and less relevant position in terms of distributing information.

I'd reserve judgement on the long-term dominance of the Internet as a bastion of free information. If net neutrality is destroyed by content providers, we could well see ourselves being charged for the majority of information that we now take for granted. Newspaper websites (especially Murdoch-owned content) will be subscription only, and ISPs may start charging for different "content packages" in much the same way as Sky charges for different channels. If this happens, there will still be a place for public libraries. The Digital Economy Bill is just the beginning.

I didn't say there isn't a place for Libraries. I said their purpose and role is diminishing.

Neither did I indicate there isn't a cost to access the Internet for news or information.

Public Libraries are not "free". We all pay for Libraries from taxation.

An interesting exercise would be to study or research the comparative costs of Libraries and alternative sources of information.

My guess is that Libraries would turn out to be far more costly and that a significant element of those costs are incurred by unnecessary staffing levels and maintaining old inefficient buildings?

Fair point. However, if we see a tiered Internet emerging, I believe there will be a revival of public-funded sources of information.
You seem to be implying that we should look into privatising libraries, which I feel would be a terrible idea. I can only shudder at a future in which people with little or no income are cut off from public access to knowledge and learning.

Gilmore wrote:
Fair point. However, if we see a tiered Internet emerging, I believe there will be a revival of public-funded sources of information.
You seem to be implying that we should look into privatising libraries, which I feel would be a terrible idea. I can only shudder at a future in which people with little or no income are cut off from public access to knowledge and learning.

No, I wasn't implying the demise nor the privitisation of Libraries. I just think they need to be brought up to date with all the rapid changes that have taken place in the past two decades, slimmed down to appropriate dimensions and demonstrate their cost effectiveness.

I'm an advocate for information being available ( at reasonable cost levels ) to everyone on the entire Planet.

High speed, affordable ( and if necessary subsidised ) Internet access should be available to all.

This would empower people to learn about whatever they wanted to learn about, impose their own filters on news, knowledge and information and provide important checks and balances on political leaders/rulers.

clausentum wrote:

Gilmore wrote:
Fair point. However, if we see a tiered Internet emerging, I believe there will be a revival of public-funded sources of information.
You seem to be implying that we should look into privatising libraries, which I feel would be a terrible idea. I can only shudder at a future in which people with little or no income are cut off from public access to knowledge and learning.

No, I wasn't implying the demise nor the privitisation of Libraries. I just think they need to be brought up to date with all the rapid changes that have taken place in the past two decades, slimmed down to appropriate dimensions and demonstrate their cost effectiveness.

I'm an advocate for information being available ( at reasonable cost levels ) to everyone on the entire Planet.

High speed, affordable ( and if necessary subsidised ) Internet access should be available to all.

This would empower people to learn about whatever they wanted to learn about, impose their own filters on news, knowledge and information and provide important checks and balances on political leaders/rulers.

NB.

I would have no problem with the Internet being funded 100% by advertising, and making computers, networks and access totally free to everyone across the whole Globe.

sw = life-road

Cool. Disappointingly, I'm pretty much in agreement with you then, although I don't think libraries should be slimmed down, at least in terms of reducing content. Despite advances in technology (cf. Amazon Kindle, iPad), there is no more convenient and readable interface in existence than in proper paper books. The point I mentioned earlier about automated check-in is the sort of efficiency improvement I'd agree with, and it would be nice to see some further investigation into how the library experience can be enhanced. The emergence of the new-fangled "Discovery Centres", as in Winchester, has yet to convince me of any significant improvement, other than the fancy name.

Loads of interesting comments here. How about this as an 'out of box' thought?
We have many schools in Southampton, all have libraries - with staff. If we enhanced them, reduced external libraies, having a central one to administer the distribution of requested books - I am sure we could save a lot of money - and as an added bonus, free up some great buildings for altrnative use as fast-food outlets or cheque-cashing pound shops.

Bassett-Mikey wrote:
Loads of interesting comments here. How about this as an 'out of box' thought?
We have many schools in Southampton, all have libraries - with staff. If we enhanced them, reduced external libraies, having a central one to administer the distribution of requested books - I am sure we could save a lot of money - and as an added bonus, free up some great buildings for altrnative use as fast-food outlets or cheque-cashing pound shops.

Your creative lateral thinking is something to be admired and emulated.

;-)

.

Hampshire with it's cost-saving plans to cut Librarian staff is in the minor league compared with Essex.

They have a 240 million pound hole in their finances and have recruited a CEO to wield the job-cutting axe, at a salary of 230,000 quid. I guess if she is successful then Essex will consider her good value for their money?

A lot of workers and their families are going to be devastated but Councils are between a rock and a hard place.

What is the answer to local authority fiscal irresponsibility, inefficiency and lousy monetary judgments, other than to cut spending or raise taxes or a combination of the two?

the problem the internet information is not very good, its not proof read, the information that,s put up is not classify, or check for accuracy, unlike books. the internet is unrealible for good information but a good place to get you started but library's in the ref section is the best place for correct information.

Deplorable as the Library cuts are they are nothing as to what will soon befall us --5 minutes in to his post as Chancellor, Osborne, backed by Liberal Democrats of no conviction or conscience, is rushing out details of how he is to cut 5 billion pounds from the public expenditure this year !!
It is agreed that public expenditure has to be cut to pay back the money borrowed by the previous Government to stave off total economic collapse brought about entirely by the greed of the capitalist bankers.
Most thinking people believe that to slam the brakes on public spending is like slamming on the brakes, on a 'bus, people end up going through the windscreen and there are major casualties.
Caring, thinking people, consider it better to make these financial adjustments in a reasoned, thought out way thus, minimising the inevitable increase in unemployment, loss of income to the exchequer and cuts in NHS and Social Service spending, affecting the poorest of the community.
That's the view of thinking, caring people but of course, we are talking about Tories and their LibDem co-horts, so God help us!!

It gets even worse TEBOURBA.
There is no god to help us.
We're on our own.