Southampton faces 'most serious' industrial action ever

Daily Echo: Union members protest in Southampton Union members protest in Southampton

BIN collections and street cleaning in Southampton could grind to a halt because of a wave of crippling strikes over mass pay cuts for council staff.

Galleries and libraries could also shut after union leaders last night threatened targeted walkouts in May that could last for weeks.

Thousands of union members will be balloted on “most serious industrial action” ever seen in the city after Southampton City Council yesterday told staff it will on Monday give them 90 days to sign new contracts cutting their pay and conditions. The new, worse terms would start on July 1.

Members of Unison and Unite unions last month voted 1,552 to 307 to overwhelmingly reject proposed pay cuts of between two and 5.5 per cent. GMB members also rejected them.

Under the cuts the higher paid will be hit hardest, although those earning under £17,500 will get a £250 pay rise. Allowances will also be reduced.

Unison branch secretary Mike Tucker said: “The cuts are substantial and council workers cannot afford to have their pay reduced by that amount”.

He warned of mass day-long walkouts and industrial action by workers providing “key services”

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lasting for weeks.

Unite convenor Mark Wood, who represents binmen, street cleaners and park rangers, added: “We intend to use our members to the utmost degree.

“There is no point in taking action unless we will have a telling effect on services. We are looking at a prolonged period of targeted action in specific services.”

Unions are also preparing legal challenges and a street protest on March 24. They are urging all staff to hold off signing new contracts.

Ruling Tories agreed to dismiss staff and re-hire them on worse contracts to force through the cuts to pay and allowances, worth up to £6.6m a year.

The have pledged no “further changes to terms and conditions during this administration” related to budget savings.

The move will help plug a £25m budget hole in 2011/12 following harsh Government funding cuts.

The council’s budget will see 250 jobs go out of the council’s 6,627 workforce, excluding teachers.

That includes up to 40 senior managers and will save £5m.

Council leader Royston Smith said the pay cuts will save a further 400 jobs losses over the next two years. He said despite the cuts, the council was spending more money than ever in roads and pavements, protecting its libraries and leisure centres from closure, keeping its Sure Start centres, maintaining its weekly bin collections and hiring social workers.

He said: “I understand that some staff are concerned about taking a modest pay cut. However the alternative of losing hundreds of jobs and services is something I can’t consider.”

Comments (50)

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11:43am Wed 9 Mar 11

Brite Spark says...

More serious than the Union lead disastrous dockies strike (the already well paid and underworked container depot stevedores) of the 1980's that cost the port millions, sent much trade elsewhere never to return, degraded Southampton's trading reputation globally, and cost the port thousands of jobs?
I don't think bin men etc going on strike will have such a long term detrimental effect as that one.
More serious than the Union lead disastrous dockies strike (the already well paid and underworked container depot stevedores) of the 1980's that cost the port millions, sent much trade elsewhere never to return, degraded Southampton's trading reputation globally, and cost the port thousands of jobs? I don't think bin men etc going on strike will have such a long term detrimental effect as that one. Brite Spark

11:47am Wed 9 Mar 11

Lone Ranger says...

Brite Spark wrote:
More serious than the Union lead disastrous dockies strike (the already well paid and underworked container depot stevedores) of the 1980's that cost the port millions, sent much trade elsewhere never to return, degraded Southampton's trading reputation globally, and cost the port thousands of jobs?
I don't think bin men etc going on strike will have such a long term detrimental effect as that one.
Forgive the pun but the words in the article "Key Workers" is the key.... these are not just bin men are they ?
[quote][p][bold]Brite Spark[/bold] wrote: More serious than the Union lead disastrous dockies strike (the already well paid and underworked container depot stevedores) of the 1980's that cost the port millions, sent much trade elsewhere never to return, degraded Southampton's trading reputation globally, and cost the port thousands of jobs? I don't think bin men etc going on strike will have such a long term detrimental effect as that one.[/p][/quote]Forgive the pun but the words in the article "Key Workers" is the key.... these are not just bin men are they ? Lone Ranger

11:52am Wed 9 Mar 11

Wizzel says...

Paycut V redundancy it's a no brainer really. Do they think they are the only work force to HAVE to accept a paycut to keep their jobs?
I work in the private sector and lost 3% two years ago and yes it's not an ideal solution for me personally, but I'de rather loose something than have nothing other than a fortnightly appointment to sign on the dotted line.
Paycut V redundancy it's a no brainer really. Do they think they are the only work force to HAVE to accept a paycut to keep their jobs? I work in the private sector and lost 3% two years ago and yes it's not an ideal solution for me personally, but I'de rather loose something than have nothing other than a fortnightly appointment to sign on the dotted line. Wizzel

12:03pm Wed 9 Mar 11

RadicalEmu says...

Wizzel wrote:
Paycut V redundancy it's a no brainer really. Do they think they are the only work force to HAVE to accept a paycut to keep their jobs?
I work in the private sector and lost 3% two years ago and yes it's not an ideal solution for me personally, but I'de rather loose something than have nothing other than a fortnightly appointment to sign on the dotted line.
Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'?
[quote][p][bold]Wizzel[/bold] wrote: Paycut V redundancy it's a no brainer really. Do they think they are the only work force to HAVE to accept a paycut to keep their jobs? I work in the private sector and lost 3% two years ago and yes it's not an ideal solution for me personally, but I'de rather loose something than have nothing other than a fortnightly appointment to sign on the dotted line.[/p][/quote]Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'? RadicalEmu

12:09pm Wed 9 Mar 11

tootle says...

Recently have been interviewing peeps for a job, Had several ex, want to be ex, expecting to be ex council staff applying(none incidentally from Southampton).
One wanted paying double what was on offer and he'd consider working for us. Another whinged about pay, lack of guaranteed overtime, conditions etc(at his present employer). Another boasted he only did exactly what was in his contract and not ANYTHING else ever. Every guy coming from the public sector was wanting more money than was offered because they couldn't afford that size of pay cut.
Guys from the private sector "Can I have the job, please".
Sorry guys, from the news(and yes I know that is never the whole or any of the truth) it appears that Southampton is trying hard to save jobs and services unlike a lot of councils.
Recently have been interviewing peeps for a job, Had several ex, want to be ex, expecting to be ex council staff applying(none incidentally from Southampton). One wanted paying double what was on offer and he'd consider working for us. Another whinged about pay, lack of guaranteed overtime, conditions etc(at his present employer). Another boasted he only did exactly what was in his contract and not ANYTHING else ever. Every guy coming from the public sector was wanting more money than was offered because they couldn't afford that size of pay cut. Guys from the private sector "Can I have the job, please". Sorry guys, from the news(and yes I know that is never the whole or any of the truth) it appears that Southampton is trying hard to save jobs and services unlike a lot of councils. tootle

12:30pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Wizzel says...

...Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'?..

No not at all, we were told it was happening had to sign a letter which told us what we could do if we disagreed..!! Maybe SCC should take this stance and stop wasting my hard earnt reduced salary

oh how apt SW: news-wage... classic..!
...Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'?.. No not at all, we were told it was happening had to sign a letter which told us what we could do if we disagreed..!! Maybe SCC should take this stance and stop wasting my hard earnt reduced salary oh how apt SW: news-wage... classic..! Wizzel

12:39pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Wizzel says...

...Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'?..

No not at all, we were told it was happening had to sign a letter which told us what we could do if we disagreed..!! Maybe SCC should take this stance and stop wasting my hard earnt reduced salary

oh how apt SW: news-wage... classic..!
...Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'?.. No not at all, we were told it was happening had to sign a letter which told us what we could do if we disagreed..!! Maybe SCC should take this stance and stop wasting my hard earnt reduced salary oh how apt SW: news-wage... classic..! Wizzel

12:42pm Wed 9 Mar 11

dave1958 says...

Brite Spark wrote:
More serious than the Union lead disastrous dockies strike (the already well paid and underworked container depot stevedores) of the 1980's that cost the port millions, sent much trade elsewhere never to return, degraded Southampton's trading reputation globally, and cost the port thousands of jobs? I don't think bin men etc going on strike will have such a long term detrimental effect as that one.
People have short memories when it comes to the dusties going on strike. I remember the winter of discontent, when grave diggers, dusties and other members of the public services went on strike. Having large piles of plastic bin bags all over the place, an increase in rats, and once they went back the state of the ground that these piles were on never got back to its orginal state, due to cans etc being in the ground.
These people do a very important job in society and they are not appreciated, just imagine the state we would be in without them, all the increase in vermin, diesea, and the general state of everywhere.

Perhaps Royston and his fellow councillors should seriously think about this and look at other ways of dealing with this. It would be nice if the new chief executive could lead the way by taking say a 20 or 25% pay cut, and perhaps not have the new £12k carpet for his temp office. Perhaps Royston and the cabinet members may be willing to give up their cabinet fees, after all they are drawing a wage from an employer somewhere, so they are sitting quite nice.
[quote][p][bold]Brite Spark[/bold] wrote: More serious than the Union lead disastrous dockies strike (the already well paid and underworked container depot stevedores) of the 1980's that cost the port millions, sent much trade elsewhere never to return, degraded Southampton's trading reputation globally, and cost the port thousands of jobs? I don't think bin men etc going on strike will have such a long term detrimental effect as that one.[/p][/quote]People have short memories when it comes to the dusties going on strike. I remember the winter of discontent, when grave diggers, dusties and other members of the public services went on strike. Having large piles of plastic bin bags all over the place, an increase in rats, and once they went back the state of the ground that these piles were on never got back to its orginal state, due to cans etc being in the ground. These people do a very important job in society and they are not appreciated, just imagine the state we would be in without them, all the increase in vermin, diesea, and the general state of everywhere. Perhaps Royston and his fellow councillors should seriously think about this and look at other ways of dealing with this. It would be nice if the new chief executive could lead the way by taking say a 20 or 25% pay cut, and perhaps not have the new £12k carpet for his temp office. Perhaps Royston and the cabinet members may be willing to give up their cabinet fees, after all they are drawing a wage from an employer somewhere, so they are sitting quite nice. dave1958

12:58pm Wed 9 Mar 11

rich the stitch says...

Sack the bin men (no pun intended). There are many people out there who love the opportunity to work. And it's exactly backbreaking work anymore. Push the bin (on wheels) to the back of the truck and then dump the empty bin nowhere near it was left out. Easy life, stop moaning and take the cuts like everyone else. To be fair they probably are quite an easy bunch to persuade to strike, not the sharpest tools in the box.
Sack the bin men (no pun intended). There are many people out there who love the opportunity to work. And it's exactly backbreaking work anymore. Push the bin (on wheels) to the back of the truck and then dump the empty bin nowhere near it was left out. Easy life, stop moaning and take the cuts like everyone else. To be fair they probably are quite an easy bunch to persuade to strike, not the sharpest tools in the box. rich the stitch

1:35pm Wed 9 Mar 11

RadicalEmu says...

Wizzel wrote:
...Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'?..

No not at all, we were told it was happening had to sign a letter which told us what we could do if we disagreed..!! Maybe SCC should take this stance and stop wasting my hard earnt reduced salary

oh how apt SW: news-wage... classic..!
So, they had no financial reason to trim your pay, but did so anyway?
[quote][p][bold]Wizzel[/bold] wrote: ...Was it a case of 'sign for a paycut or we go bust'?.. No not at all, we were told it was happening had to sign a letter which told us what we could do if we disagreed..!! Maybe SCC should take this stance and stop wasting my hard earnt reduced salary oh how apt SW: news-wage... classic..![/p][/quote]So, they had no financial reason to trim your pay, but did so anyway? RadicalEmu

1:53pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Tommy News says...

Time for these people to get real!!!

I was made redundant in 2008 and have been unable to secure a new role despite being very experienced. Since then I have been contracting with pro-longed gaps between roles. My contract can be terminated at anytime or rates of pay reduced, which has happended. I would happily have taken a 5% pay cut and protect my family from the uncertaintity and worry of an irregular income with no pay for holiday or sick leave.

So time to wake-up and be thankful you have a job with a good pension!
Time for these people to get real!!! I was made redundant in 2008 and have been unable to secure a new role despite being very experienced. Since then I have been contracting with pro-longed gaps between roles. My contract can be terminated at anytime or rates of pay reduced, which has happended. I would happily have taken a 5% pay cut and protect my family from the uncertaintity and worry of an irregular income with no pay for holiday or sick leave. So time to wake-up and be thankful you have a job with a good pension! Tommy News

2:03pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Paramjit Bahia says...

How could anybody expect workers to feed their families with lower wage while the cost of living is shooting upwards?
Hardly surprising the workers are left with no other choice other than industrial action to protect whatever little they have got
.
Without paying full attention to the overall picture it is easy for some to post comments suggesting if the current work force refuses to do the job somebody else would.
Even if enough scabs can be found for substituting the striking workers, they too have to live the real life which cannot be maintained on low wage council if offering. That can only be done if for the sake of dogma Tories are willing to spend more money on scabs. If that is the route this council wants to adopt, then will it not be a common sense to shut up and start properly paying the current work force?
How could anybody expect workers to feed their families with lower wage while the cost of living is shooting upwards? Hardly surprising the workers are left with no other choice other than industrial action to protect whatever little they have got . Without paying full attention to the overall picture it is easy for some to post comments suggesting if the current work force refuses to do the job somebody else would. Even if enough scabs can be found for substituting the striking workers, they too have to live the real life which cannot be maintained on low wage council if offering. That can only be done if for the sake of dogma Tories are willing to spend more money on scabs. If that is the route this council wants to adopt, then will it not be a common sense to shut up and start properly paying the current work force? Paramjit Bahia

2:27pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Wizzel says...

Of course they felt they had the need, ecconomic times are the same regardless of private or public, the fact they didn't give me the full run down of their financial status is irrelevant. The public sector is exactly that funded by the public so if these workers care to strike not only will the public be effected by non collections etc, we will pay more in our council tax to cover the costs of the strike etc, hitting Mr & Mrs hard working public harder. As I said in the beginnning if any of these people who are planning to strike had a brain cell to share then they would indeed uinderstand what gets given in one hand will certainly be taken from the other and it will affect all of us not just the council workers. I for one am absolutely sick to the back teeth of having to pay for services I don't use, so why am I going to support them going on strike when all it's going to do do is cost me as an individual more money??
Of course they felt they had the need, ecconomic times are the same regardless of private or public, the fact they didn't give me the full run down of their financial status is irrelevant. The public sector is exactly that funded by the public so if these workers care to strike not only will the public be effected by non collections etc, we will pay more in our council tax to cover the costs of the strike etc, hitting Mr & Mrs hard working public harder. As I said in the beginnning if any of these people who are planning to strike had a brain cell to share then they would indeed uinderstand what gets given in one hand will certainly be taken from the other and it will affect all of us not just the council workers. I for one am absolutely sick to the back teeth of having to pay for services I don't use, so why am I going to support them going on strike when all it's going to do do is cost me as an individual more money?? Wizzel

2:48pm Wed 9 Mar 11

TEBOURBA says...

Faced with an ultimatum "take less money or go!" many of the poorest paid, who do the most essential work in our community, are left with only one option to contest this outrage --- withdraw their labour.
The quality of any society may only be judged by how it cares for its poor, its weak, its sick, its elderly and its young.
Here in Southampton we have seen imposed wage cuts on some of the poorest; threatened huge hikes in the price of meals on wheels; back tracking on hospital cleaners' terms and conditions; threatened closure of a childrens' cardiac unit and closures of day care units for the elderly.
It's not all bad news though, the CEO of the RBS, bailed out by, and owned by us all, including our poorest and most disadvantaged, has just received a £7.7 million bonus!
Wake up all you who deserted Labour at the last General Election ---- welcome to the Tory society
Faced with an ultimatum "take less money or go!" many of the poorest paid, who do the most essential work in our community, are left with only one option to contest this outrage --- withdraw their labour. The quality of any society may only be judged by how it cares for its poor, its weak, its sick, its elderly and its young. Here in Southampton we have seen imposed wage cuts on some of the poorest; threatened huge hikes in the price of meals on wheels; back tracking on hospital cleaners' terms and conditions; threatened closure of a childrens' cardiac unit and closures of day care units for the elderly. It's not all bad news though, the CEO of the RBS, bailed out by, and owned by us all, including our poorest and most disadvantaged, has just received a £7.7 million bonus! Wake up all you who deserted Labour at the last General Election ---- welcome to the Tory society TEBOURBA

2:57pm Wed 9 Mar 11

RadicalEmu says...

Wizzel wrote:
Of course they felt they had the need, ecconomic times are the same regardless of private or public, the fact they didn't give me the full run down of their financial status is irrelevant. The public sector is exactly that funded by the public so if these workers care to strike not only will the public be effected by non collections etc, we will pay more in our council tax to cover the costs of the strike etc, hitting Mr & Mrs hard working public harder. As I said in the beginnning if any of these people who are planning to strike had a brain cell to share then they would indeed uinderstand what gets given in one hand will certainly be taken from the other and it will affect all of us not just the council workers. I for one am absolutely sick to the back teeth of having to pay for services I don't use, so why am I going to support them going on strike when all it's going to do do is cost me as an individual more money??
When I was made redundant I had the full rundown on the company's finances.
.
Sounds like you happily signed away money without knowing if it were even necessary, but then say that people who are prepared to stand up for themselves don't have a brain cell between them, charming.
.
Just because you're happy to be an unrepresented doormat doesn't mean everyone should be, does it now?
.
Strikes can happen in the private sector too ;o)
[quote][p][bold]Wizzel[/bold] wrote: Of course they felt they had the need, ecconomic times are the same regardless of private or public, the fact they didn't give me the full run down of their financial status is irrelevant. The public sector is exactly that funded by the public so if these workers care to strike not only will the public be effected by non collections etc, we will pay more in our council tax to cover the costs of the strike etc, hitting Mr & Mrs hard working public harder. As I said in the beginnning if any of these people who are planning to strike had a brain cell to share then they would indeed uinderstand what gets given in one hand will certainly be taken from the other and it will affect all of us not just the council workers. I for one am absolutely sick to the back teeth of having to pay for services I don't use, so why am I going to support them going on strike when all it's going to do do is cost me as an individual more money??[/p][/quote]When I was made redundant I had the full rundown on the company's finances. . Sounds like you happily signed away money without knowing if it were even necessary, but then say that people who are prepared to stand up for themselves don't have a brain cell between them, charming. . Just because you're happy to be an unrepresented doormat doesn't mean everyone should be, does it now? . Strikes can happen in the private sector too ;o) RadicalEmu

3:05pm Wed 9 Mar 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

This Council is rubbish and should be removed immediately.
This Council is rubbish and should be removed immediately. OSPREYSAINT

3:33pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Dusty says...

I say anyone in any job private or public, who has been bullied at work, forced to take a pay cut, exploited, made to do long hours for no extra pay should be sacked and some migrant worker from timbuctoo should get the job and do it for a few peanuts and a glass of sunny delight

Thank you
I say anyone in any job private or public, who has been bullied at work, forced to take a pay cut, exploited, made to do long hours for no extra pay should be sacked and some migrant worker from timbuctoo should get the job and do it for a few peanuts and a glass of sunny delight Thank you Dusty

4:10pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Dusty says...

Someone tried to tell me and i did scoff at this. That a lot of the work conditions we have now in the private and public sector, like working time directive, work safety and all employment laws are in the main thought for and lobbied since Victorian work house times. He said that the the non union work place has benefited greatly to union action and their existence has helped pay and working conditions to all union members or not, or non union work places too.

I told him straight, i don't think that's true at all. I think the humble employer would never penny pinch and would strive to spend money on health and safety to protect their work force, money would be no object to them and they would always pay top dollar to their work force. After all i told him, the employer has only his employee at heart?

I bet no one in here has ever had problems at work? because you are all treated so well by your employer.
Someone tried to tell me and i did scoff at this. That a lot of the work conditions we have now in the private and public sector, like working time directive, work safety and all employment laws are in the main thought for and lobbied since Victorian work house times. He said that the the non union work place has benefited greatly to union action and their existence has helped pay and working conditions to all union members or not, or non union work places too. I told him straight, i don't think that's true at all. I think the humble employer would never penny pinch and would strive to spend money on health and safety to protect their work force, money would be no object to them and they would always pay top dollar to their work force. After all i told him, the employer has only his employee at heart? I bet no one in here has ever had problems at work? because you are all treated so well by your employer. Dusty

4:56pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Ben Durutti says...

Deficit reduction?
Tax the banker's bonuses and close down corporate tax evasion. Simples!
Deficit reduction? Tax the banker's bonuses and close down corporate tax evasion. Simples! Ben Durutti

5:20pm Wed 9 Mar 11

southy says...

your wasting your time on token strikes, you been giving this message out for a while now and the council is not listen, time for you lot to go out on full strike till you get the result that is needed.
your wasting your time on token strikes, you been giving this message out for a while now and the council is not listen, time for you lot to go out on full strike till you get the result that is needed. southy

6:17pm Wed 9 Mar 11

clausentum says...

This Country's debt in March last year stood at 1.4 trillion pounds, equivalent to 71.3% of GDP ( source: statistics.gov.uk if you want to check it out ).

In the past 11 months the debt has got smaller but only marginally so.

That level of debt is crippling, unsustainable and leads over a cliff unless it is tackled with determination and cuts in budgets right across the board.

Get real people. This country is seriously seriously broke and in danger of sliding into 3rd world status.

The time to rant and accuse and play the blame game is over. The problem needs fixing and fixing fast.

No-one owes you me or Uncle Tom Cobbley a living. We are responsible for our own well-being. No-one else is responsible for us.

Fed up with your job? Roll up your sleeves , adjust your personal or family budget and go get another job or work two jobs to support yourself and your family.

It's called self reliance.

Whimpering and whining and striking yourself out of a job will get you nowhere.
This Country's debt in March last year stood at 1.4 trillion pounds, equivalent to 71.3% of GDP ( source: statistics.gov.uk if you want to check it out ). In the past 11 months the debt has got smaller but only marginally so. That level of debt is crippling, unsustainable and leads over a cliff unless it is tackled with determination and cuts in budgets right across the board. Get real people. This country is seriously seriously broke and in danger of sliding into 3rd world status. The time to rant and accuse and play the blame game is over. The problem needs fixing and fixing fast. No-one owes you me or Uncle Tom Cobbley a living. We are responsible for our own well-being. No-one else is responsible for us. Fed up with your job? Roll up your sleeves , adjust your personal or family budget and go get another job or work two jobs to support yourself and your family. It's called self reliance. Whimpering and whining and striking yourself out of a job will get you nowhere. clausentum

6:50pm Wed 9 Mar 11

freemantlegirl2 says...

The ConDems haven't got the b*lls to take on the banks and make them pay PROPER tax and do away with bonuses, or pay back the British Public/government the money that bailed them out!! penny pinching at local level puts the focus on local authorities and a small rise in council tax would no doubt avoid all this but hey ho, they'd rather waste money on enormous exercises of re-employing stuff, redundancy payoffs, services lost through strikes etc.

Why shouldn't people protect their jobs and livelihoods, the point is many staff cannot afford to take paycut after years of erosion of terms and conditions. As for the person that thinks wheelie bins pose no danger, aren't heavy and are simple - I suggest you volunteer for a day on the dustcarts and you may find completely differently. They are all 'key' to keeping this city running. There should be reasonable cuts not expecting staff to save money. I have sympathy with LAs as they've been put in an impossible position by the government but all this is very much knee jerk, not thinking things through properly reaction, as has been shown by the Meals and Wheels debacle. I do believe that the legal challenges will through up some issues too which the council hasn't thought through properly.

Don't blame the workers - blame this government and then show your dissatisfaction by voting this council shower out in May who are quite happy to waste hundreds of thousands on stupid pay for Chief Exec's (not forgetting new carpets), and architect's pie in the sky schemes, junkets over to Spain to look at how they collect rubbish etc.

If Royston thinks 5.5% is a 'modest' pay cut he really need his head examining.... in reality it's much more than that because of the raise in the cost of living/fuel etc.
The ConDems haven't got the b*lls to take on the banks and make them pay PROPER tax and do away with bonuses, or pay back the British Public/government the money that bailed them out!! penny pinching at local level puts the focus on local authorities and a small rise in council tax would no doubt avoid all this but hey ho, they'd rather waste money on enormous exercises of re-employing stuff, redundancy payoffs, services lost through strikes etc. Why shouldn't people protect their jobs and livelihoods, the point is many staff cannot afford to take paycut after years of erosion of terms and conditions. As for the person that thinks wheelie bins pose no danger, aren't heavy and are simple - I suggest you volunteer for a day on the dustcarts and you may find completely differently. They are all 'key' to keeping this city running. There should be reasonable cuts not expecting staff to save money. I have sympathy with LAs as they've been put in an impossible position by the government but all this is very much knee jerk, not thinking things through properly reaction, as has been shown by the Meals and Wheels debacle. I do believe that the legal challenges will through up some issues too which the council hasn't thought through properly. Don't blame the workers - blame this government and then show your dissatisfaction by voting this council shower out in May who are quite happy to waste hundreds of thousands on stupid pay for Chief Exec's (not forgetting new carpets), and architect's pie in the sky schemes, junkets over to Spain to look at how they collect rubbish etc. If Royston thinks 5.5% is a 'modest' pay cut he really need his head examining.... in reality it's much more than that because of the raise in the cost of living/fuel etc. freemantlegirl2

6:56pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Boatman says...

@clausentum
The UK national debt is lower as a proportion of GDP than that of Germany.
Source- The Economist

It is not the current level of debt that is the chief concern but rather the on-going annual deficit and how that should be addressed.
@clausentum The UK national debt is lower as a proportion of GDP than that of Germany. Source- The Economist It is not the current level of debt that is the chief concern but rather the on-going annual deficit and how that should be addressed. Boatman

7:09pm Wed 9 Mar 11

clausentum says...

Boatman wrote:
@clausentum
The UK national debt is lower as a proportion of GDP than that of Germany.
Source- The Economist

It is not the current level of debt that is the chief concern but rather the on-going annual deficit and how that should be addressed.
You are quite right. I commented on the horrendous debt level but as you correctly point out, the current deficit is an even greater issue and the priority.

Add to that, the billions in interest paid out to foreign governments to service our debt and deficit and the financial black hole we are in is of stellar proportions.

Any government of any political colouring would find itself between a rock and a hard place in trying to tackle the deficit. The present goverment will not get any applause or credit for taking the tough decisions.

If Labour had got back in power at the last election they would have faced the same hard choices because the financial problems facing the Country straddle politics.

What the moaners don't get is that our financial problems are National problems not political party problems and require National remedies that straddle the political divide.
[quote][p][bold]Boatman[/bold] wrote: @clausentum The UK national debt is lower as a proportion of GDP than that of Germany. Source- The Economist It is not the current level of debt that is the chief concern but rather the on-going annual deficit and how that should be addressed.[/p][/quote]You are quite right. I commented on the horrendous debt level but as you correctly point out, the current deficit is an even greater issue and the priority. Add to that, the billions in interest paid out to foreign governments to service our debt and deficit and the financial black hole we are in is of stellar proportions. Any government of any political colouring would find itself between a rock and a hard place in trying to tackle the deficit. The present goverment will not get any applause or credit for taking the tough decisions. If Labour had got back in power at the last election they would have faced the same hard choices because the financial problems facing the Country straddle politics. What the moaners don't get is that our financial problems are National problems not political party problems and require National remedies that straddle the political divide. clausentum

7:29pm Wed 9 Mar 11

clausentum says...

clausentum wrote:
Boatman wrote:
@clausentum
The UK national debt is lower as a proportion of GDP than that of Germany.
Source- The Economist

It is not the current level of debt that is the chief concern but rather the on-going annual deficit and how that should be addressed.
You are quite right. I commented on the horrendous debt level but as you correctly point out, the current deficit is an even greater issue and the priority.

Add to that, the billions in interest paid out to foreign governments to service our debt and deficit and the financial black hole we are in is of stellar proportions.

Any government of any political colouring would find itself between a rock and a hard place in trying to tackle the deficit. The present goverment will not get any applause or credit for taking the tough decisions.

If Labour had got back in power at the last election they would have faced the same hard choices because the financial problems facing the Country straddle politics.

What the moaners don't get is that our financial problems are National problems not political party problems and require National remedies that straddle the political divide.
ps

I don't subscribe to the online version of the Economist but fully accept your sourced information.

The government's statistical website gives the latest annual deficit figure as:

"159.8 billion or equivalent to 11.4 % of GDP"

How can any Economy survive when faced with such a debilitating and crushing level of deficit?

I guess the answer is - tough austerity measures so unpopular that the government trying to resolve the problem gets voted out! Who would want to be in politics!!
[quote][p][bold]clausentum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Boatman[/bold] wrote: @clausentum The UK national debt is lower as a proportion of GDP than that of Germany. Source- The Economist It is not the current level of debt that is the chief concern but rather the on-going annual deficit and how that should be addressed.[/p][/quote]You are quite right. I commented on the horrendous debt level but as you correctly point out, the current deficit is an even greater issue and the priority. Add to that, the billions in interest paid out to foreign governments to service our debt and deficit and the financial black hole we are in is of stellar proportions. Any government of any political colouring would find itself between a rock and a hard place in trying to tackle the deficit. The present goverment will not get any applause or credit for taking the tough decisions. If Labour had got back in power at the last election they would have faced the same hard choices because the financial problems facing the Country straddle politics. What the moaners don't get is that our financial problems are National problems not political party problems and require National remedies that straddle the political divide.[/p][/quote]ps I don't subscribe to the online version of the Economist but fully accept your sourced information. The government's statistical website gives the latest annual deficit figure as: "159.8 billion or equivalent to 11.4 % of GDP" How can any Economy survive when faced with such a debilitating and crushing level of deficit? I guess the answer is - tough austerity measures so unpopular that the government trying to resolve the problem gets voted out! Who would want to be in politics!! clausentum

8:32pm Wed 9 Mar 11

testvalleypol says...

If they strike for just 5 days they will have lost 2% of their pay... How stupid is that? Go on strike for 10 days and lose 4%! It will save the City's finances!
If they strike for just 5 days they will have lost 2% of their pay... How stupid is that? Go on strike for 10 days and lose 4%! It will save the City's finances! testvalleypol

8:38pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Brite Spark says...

I've got a brainwave. Why doesn't every house hold become responsible for their own waste, and take it to the dump every 10 days or so - cardboard/recyclable waste and food waste skips? Do without binmen full stop, not rely on their collections, and save the council a lot of money.
I've got a brainwave. Why doesn't every house hold become responsible for their own waste, and take it to the dump every 10 days or so - cardboard/recyclable waste and food waste skips? Do without binmen full stop, not rely on their collections, and save the council a lot of money. Brite Spark

8:42pm Wed 9 Mar 11

geoff51 says...

southy wrote:
your wasting your time on token strikes, you been giving this message out for a while now and the council is not listen, time for you lot to go out on full strike till you get the result that is needed.
Wake up comrade Southy and Parmajit and all you other Ostriches who stick their head in the sand about public sector workers, 'there is no money left'
Your mates in the Labour party spent it all, we have with our outlandish council tax bills have been supporting a public sector that is unsustainable.
It is remeniscent of BL of the 70's and we all know what happened to the British car industry.
Much as I have sympathy for those on under 17k per year, those at the bottom of the pile who do most of the work there is a whole culture above that who only justify their job on the back of these people.
Get rid of the non-jobs, the outreach workers, the coortdinators for minority interests, the walking bus organisers etc there will be enogh left for the important workers like carers, dustmen, crossing patrols etc.
The real world awaits you, welcome to it, most of us have been there for years!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: your wasting your time on token strikes, you been giving this message out for a while now and the council is not listen, time for you lot to go out on full strike till you get the result that is needed.[/p][/quote]Wake up comrade Southy and Parmajit and all you other Ostriches who stick their head in the sand about public sector workers, 'there is no money left' Your mates in the Labour party spent it all, we have with our outlandish council tax bills have been supporting a public sector that is unsustainable. It is remeniscent of BL of the 70's and we all know what happened to the British car industry. Much as I have sympathy for those on under 17k per year, those at the bottom of the pile who do most of the work there is a whole culture above that who only justify their job on the back of these people. Get rid of the non-jobs, the outreach workers, the coortdinators for minority interests, the walking bus organisers etc there will be enogh left for the important workers like carers, dustmen, crossing patrols etc. The real world awaits you, welcome to it, most of us have been there for years! geoff51

9:45pm Wed 9 Mar 11

TEBOURBA says...

Like the USA and many other countries we are in trillions of debt because Governments borrowed money to stave off certain economic meltdown caused entirely by greedy banks over extending themselves.
The banks loaned money they didn't have, to borrowers who clearly didn't have the means to repay the loan and then the bank sold on the debt, at a profit, to another bank and so the merry-go-round went on and on, until the music suddenly stopped, when people saw small investors, queuing round the block, sleeping on the pavements, panicking to withdraw their money from rogue banks like Northern Rock.
Had Gordon Brown not stepped in, leading the world, in the way out of the mess,( the Tories didn't have a clue what to do) the economic crash would have made the 1929 Wall Street Crash and the ensuing Depression of the 1930's look like a picnic.
The thanks the Labour Government got for sorting out this capitalist induced mess was to be voted out of office.
Hopefully the turncoats who deserted Labour in favour of the Tories and Lib Dems have learnt their lesson.
Like the USA and many other countries we are in trillions of debt because Governments borrowed money to stave off certain economic meltdown caused entirely by greedy banks over extending themselves. The banks loaned money they didn't have, to borrowers who clearly didn't have the means to repay the loan and then the bank sold on the debt, at a profit, to another bank and so the merry-go-round went on and on, until the music suddenly stopped, when people saw small investors, queuing round the block, sleeping on the pavements, panicking to withdraw their money from rogue banks like Northern Rock. Had Gordon Brown not stepped in, leading the world, in the way out of the mess,( the Tories didn't have a clue what to do) the economic crash would have made the 1929 Wall Street Crash and the ensuing Depression of the 1930's look like a picnic. The thanks the Labour Government got for sorting out this capitalist induced mess was to be voted out of office. Hopefully the turncoats who deserted Labour in favour of the Tories and Lib Dems have learnt their lesson. TEBOURBA

9:49pm Wed 9 Mar 11

clausentum says...

Brite Spark wrote:
I've got a brainwave. Why doesn't every house hold become responsible for their own waste, and take it to the dump every 10 days or so - cardboard/recyclable waste and food waste skips? Do without binmen full stop, not rely on their collections, and save the council a lot of money.
It's contagious.

I've got a brainwave too!

Why don't every able-bodied adult of working age stop buying into the nanny state mentality and instead, use their own talents, abilities, skills and personal inner resources and take care of themselves and their own and their family budgets.

Do without fake gods like union leaders full stop, do not rely on their obscene 100K @year false advise and save your own employability and prosper from your own efforts.
[quote][p][bold]Brite Spark[/bold] wrote: I've got a brainwave. Why doesn't every house hold become responsible for their own waste, and take it to the dump every 10 days or so - cardboard/recyclable waste and food waste skips? Do without binmen full stop, not rely on their collections, and save the council a lot of money.[/p][/quote]It's contagious. I've got a brainwave too! Why don't every able-bodied adult of working age stop buying into the nanny state mentality and instead, use their own talents, abilities, skills and personal inner resources and take care of themselves and their own and their family budgets. Do without fake gods like union leaders full stop, do not rely on their obscene 100K @year false advise and save your own employability and prosper from your own efforts. clausentum

9:57pm Wed 9 Mar 11

loosehead says...

As far as I knew all bin men ( most) are now agency so if they don't want to work get other temporary staff to do it.if the cleaners don't want a job & wont sign a new contract there's always medicare as they'll be looking for employees soon.why are the union using the low paid & lying to them? the ones who were protesting are low paid & will get a pay rise so what exactly would they be striking for?I enquired about a bin mans job & was told to contact an agency in Totton.LOOK if the unions get their way 650 jobs will have to go then the unions will blame firstly the Tory council( conveniently forgetting Labour run Manchester) & then the tory/Lib government for the loss of jobs with no mention of Labours part in the deficit it's either the Tories or the banks not brown & now Labour councils & the unions.If they go on strike just employ new workers & lock the others out you know just like Wapping.I hope you remember it was a Labour government which their buddies the union bought down through the winter of discontent which disgusted people so much so go ahead show the people exactly why they voted for Maggie as they seemed to forgotten as have some of your bloggers also it's not a Labour government now it's one who beat you despotic union leaders before so bring it on.Southy Where's your book THE HISTORY OF BRITAIN ACCORDING TO SOUTHY as i've looked on the comedy shelves & couldn't see it
As far as I knew all bin men ( most) are now agency so if they don't want to work get other temporary staff to do it.if the cleaners don't want a job & wont sign a new contract there's always medicare as they'll be looking for employees soon.why are the union using the low paid & lying to them? the ones who were protesting are low paid & will get a pay rise so what exactly would they be striking for?I enquired about a bin mans job & was told to contact an agency in Totton.LOOK if the unions get their way 650 jobs will have to go then the unions will blame firstly the Tory council( conveniently forgetting Labour run Manchester) & then the tory/Lib government for the loss of jobs with no mention of Labours part in the deficit it's either the Tories or the banks not brown & now Labour councils & the unions.If they go on strike just employ new workers & lock the others out you know just like Wapping.I hope you remember it was a Labour government which their buddies the union bought down through the winter of discontent which disgusted people so much so go ahead show the people exactly why they voted for Maggie as they seemed to forgotten as have some of your bloggers also it's not a Labour government now it's one who beat you despotic union leaders before so bring it on.Southy Where's your book THE HISTORY OF BRITAIN ACCORDING TO SOUTHY as i've looked on the comedy shelves & couldn't see it loosehead

10:05pm Wed 9 Mar 11

loosehead says...

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
The ConDems haven't got the b*lls to take on the banks and make them pay PROPER tax and do away with bonuses, or pay back the British Public/government the money that bailed them out!! penny pinching at local level puts the focus on local authorities and a small rise in council tax would no doubt avoid all this but hey ho, they'd rather waste money on enormous exercises of re-employing stuff, redundancy payoffs, services lost through strikes etc.

Why shouldn't people protect their jobs and livelihoods, the point is many staff cannot afford to take paycut after years of erosion of terms and conditions. As for the person that thinks wheelie bins pose no danger, aren't heavy and are simple - I suggest you volunteer for a day on the dustcarts and you may find completely differently. They are all 'key' to keeping this city running. There should be reasonable cuts not expecting staff to save money. I have sympathy with LAs as they've been put in an impossible position by the government but all this is very much knee jerk, not thinking things through properly reaction, as has been shown by the Meals and Wheels debacle. I do believe that the legal challenges will through up some issues too which the council hasn't thought through properly.

Don't blame the workers - blame this government and then show your dissatisfaction by voting this council shower out in May who are quite happy to waste hundreds of thousands on stupid pay for Chief Exec's (not forgetting new carpets), and architect's pie in the sky schemes, junkets over to Spain to look at how they collect rubbish etc.

If Royston thinks 5.5% is a 'modest' pay cut he really need his head examining.... in reality it's much more than that because of the raise in the cost of living/fuel etc.
Freemantle girl use your brain HSBC is being told by shareholders to move because of the tax that's already been imposed ,if they do that's thousands of jobs plus billions of taxes lost to this country & that's just one bank think of the loss to the British economy if they all moved it would be catastrophic.Brown didn't care about the loss of manufacturing as he thought this countries future was in the financial sector so yes lets tax them out of the country & then what have we got? every one unemployed?
[quote][p][bold]freemantlegirl2[/bold] wrote: The ConDems haven't got the b*lls to take on the banks and make them pay PROPER tax and do away with bonuses, or pay back the British Public/government the money that bailed them out!! penny pinching at local level puts the focus on local authorities and a small rise in council tax would no doubt avoid all this but hey ho, they'd rather waste money on enormous exercises of re-employing stuff, redundancy payoffs, services lost through strikes etc. Why shouldn't people protect their jobs and livelihoods, the point is many staff cannot afford to take paycut after years of erosion of terms and conditions. As for the person that thinks wheelie bins pose no danger, aren't heavy and are simple - I suggest you volunteer for a day on the dustcarts and you may find completely differently. They are all 'key' to keeping this city running. There should be reasonable cuts not expecting staff to save money. I have sympathy with LAs as they've been put in an impossible position by the government but all this is very much knee jerk, not thinking things through properly reaction, as has been shown by the Meals and Wheels debacle. I do believe that the legal challenges will through up some issues too which the council hasn't thought through properly. Don't blame the workers - blame this government and then show your dissatisfaction by voting this council shower out in May who are quite happy to waste hundreds of thousands on stupid pay for Chief Exec's (not forgetting new carpets), and architect's pie in the sky schemes, junkets over to Spain to look at how they collect rubbish etc. If Royston thinks 5.5% is a 'modest' pay cut he really need his head examining.... in reality it's much more than that because of the raise in the cost of living/fuel etc.[/p][/quote]Freemantle girl use your brain HSBC is being told by shareholders to move because of the tax that's already been imposed ,if they do that's thousands of jobs plus billions of taxes lost to this country & that's just one bank think of the loss to the British economy if they all moved it would be catastrophic.Brown didn't care about the loss of manufacturing as he thought this countries future was in the financial sector so yes lets tax them out of the country & then what have we got? every one unemployed? loosehead

10:14pm Wed 9 Mar 11

clausentum says...

The combined 2.4 billion people of China and India are currently the World's thriving Economies and producers and manufacturers.

The only way to compete with that fact and avoid sliding further and further into financial obscurity as a Nation, is to sell services and stuff that the rest of the World wants, and is willing to buy.

As a Country we need to stop spending money we don't have, reduce our deficit, cut our budgets and harness our skills to compete in the global marketplace.

Moaning, blaming and remaining stuck in the rut of 19th century thinking with it's associated outdated union class warfare will not get us to where we need to be and want to be - resuming prosperity and raising the standards of living for all citizens.
The combined 2.4 billion people of China and India are currently the World's thriving Economies and producers and manufacturers. The only way to compete with that fact and avoid sliding further and further into financial obscurity as a Nation, is to sell services and stuff that the rest of the World wants, and is willing to buy. As a Country we need to stop spending money we don't have, reduce our deficit, cut our budgets and harness our skills to compete in the global marketplace. Moaning, blaming and remaining stuck in the rut of 19th century thinking with it's associated outdated union class warfare will not get us to where we need to be and want to be - resuming prosperity and raising the standards of living for all citizens. clausentum

10:56pm Wed 9 Mar 11

Maine Lobster says...

clausentum wrote:
The combined 2.4 billion people of China and India are currently the World's thriving Economies and producers and manufacturers.

The only way to compete with that fact and avoid sliding further and further into financial obscurity as a Nation, is to sell services and stuff that the rest of the World wants, and is willing to buy.

As a Country we need to stop spending money we don't have, reduce our deficit, cut our budgets and harness our skills to compete in the global marketplace.

Moaning, blaming and remaining stuck in the rut of 19th century thinking with it's associated outdated union class warfare will not get us to where we need to be and want to be - resuming prosperity and raising the standards of living for all citizens.
Its nothing to do with class warfare. Its about ordinary working people standing up for their rights and their contractual entitlements. The reason India and China are thriving economies is because they have huge populations, many of whom are in extreme poverty and large corporations can export their businesses to these nations because the people can work for peanuts. If you want to live in a country like those where there is no welfare state, disease and malnutrition kills millions while child prostitutes fill the streets and people live under an oppressive regime (China) I suggest you move there. I'll help pay your fare.
[quote][p][bold]clausentum[/bold] wrote: The combined 2.4 billion people of China and India are currently the World's thriving Economies and producers and manufacturers. The only way to compete with that fact and avoid sliding further and further into financial obscurity as a Nation, is to sell services and stuff that the rest of the World wants, and is willing to buy. As a Country we need to stop spending money we don't have, reduce our deficit, cut our budgets and harness our skills to compete in the global marketplace. Moaning, blaming and remaining stuck in the rut of 19th century thinking with it's associated outdated union class warfare will not get us to where we need to be and want to be - resuming prosperity and raising the standards of living for all citizens.[/p][/quote]Its nothing to do with class warfare. Its about ordinary working people standing up for their rights and their contractual entitlements. The reason India and China are thriving economies is because they have huge populations, many of whom are in extreme poverty and large corporations can export their businesses to these nations because the people can work for peanuts. If you want to live in a country like those where there is no welfare state, disease and malnutrition kills millions while child prostitutes fill the streets and people live under an oppressive regime (China) I suggest you move there. I'll help pay your fare. Maine Lobster

11:56pm Wed 9 Mar 11

clausentum says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
clausentum wrote:
The combined 2.4 billion people of China and India are currently the World's thriving Economies and producers and manufacturers.

The only way to compete with that fact and avoid sliding further and further into financial obscurity as a Nation, is to sell services and stuff that the rest of the World wants, and is willing to buy.

As a Country we need to stop spending money we don't have, reduce our deficit, cut our budgets and harness our skills to compete in the global marketplace.

Moaning, blaming and remaining stuck in the rut of 19th century thinking with it's associated outdated union class warfare will not get us to where we need to be and want to be - resuming prosperity and raising the standards of living for all citizens.
Its nothing to do with class warfare. Its about ordinary working people standing up for their rights and their contractual entitlements. The reason India and China are thriving economies is because they have huge populations, many of whom are in extreme poverty and large corporations can export their businesses to these nations because the people can work for peanuts. If you want to live in a country like those where there is no welfare state, disease and malnutrition kills millions while child prostitutes fill the streets and people live under an oppressive regime (China) I suggest you move there. I'll help pay your fare.
Defensive, distorted and way way below what you are capable of in terms of thinking and commentary. Could do a lot better . . .

Where do i advocate we emulate China and India in social welfare and poverty levels??

I did make the observation they are the current Economic darlings . The reason behind their success and rise to economic power is because they are largely doing now what we, North America, Europe, Japan did for the past 100 years - using dirty energy to fuel their economic growth. Their population levels and low pay helps too.

We have to acknowledge the reality of them as competitors in World markets, not moan about their success nor float on a cloud of moral superiority, but compete against the reality we face.

Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce .

Get real.
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]clausentum[/bold] wrote: The combined 2.4 billion people of China and India are currently the World's thriving Economies and producers and manufacturers. The only way to compete with that fact and avoid sliding further and further into financial obscurity as a Nation, is to sell services and stuff that the rest of the World wants, and is willing to buy. As a Country we need to stop spending money we don't have, reduce our deficit, cut our budgets and harness our skills to compete in the global marketplace. Moaning, blaming and remaining stuck in the rut of 19th century thinking with it's associated outdated union class warfare will not get us to where we need to be and want to be - resuming prosperity and raising the standards of living for all citizens.[/p][/quote]Its nothing to do with class warfare. Its about ordinary working people standing up for their rights and their contractual entitlements. The reason India and China are thriving economies is because they have huge populations, many of whom are in extreme poverty and large corporations can export their businesses to these nations because the people can work for peanuts. If you want to live in a country like those where there is no welfare state, disease and malnutrition kills millions while child prostitutes fill the streets and people live under an oppressive regime (China) I suggest you move there. I'll help pay your fare.[/p][/quote]Defensive, distorted and way way below what you are capable of in terms of thinking and commentary. Could do a lot better . . . Where do i advocate we emulate China and India in social welfare and poverty levels?? I did make the observation they are the current Economic darlings . The reason behind their success and rise to economic power is because they are largely doing now what we, North America, Europe, Japan did for the past 100 years - using dirty energy to fuel their economic growth. Their population levels and low pay helps too. We have to acknowledge the reality of them as competitors in World markets, not moan about their success nor float on a cloud of moral superiority, but compete against the reality we face. Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce . Get real. clausentum

1:17am Thu 10 Mar 11

bevoisvalleygirl says...

The Echo, as usual, is muddling the facts about these pay cuts. For anyone interested in the facts, see the documents on the council web site at http://www.southampt
on.gov.uk/termsandco
nditions/.
These show that the situation for workers on less than £17,500 is far from rosy. Also, that those earning between £22,000 and £35,000 (hardly extortionate salaries) will get a 4.5% pay cut. (See files for percentage cuts for other wage rates.)
In addition, there will be no annual increments for anyone for two years, or cost-of-living pay rise for two years (this following a pay freeze in 2010/11).
Part-time workers earning less than £17,500 will get a pay cut if their full-time-equivalent wage is over £17,500. There are many part-time workers in the Council, mainly women workers.
The pay cuts are permanent, and will affect all of our pensions (on top of the changes to local authority pensions being planned by the Government).
With inflation running at 5%, many of us simply can't afford to accept these cuts, although I don't know anyone who is jubilant about the prospect of strike action.
The Echo, as usual, is muddling the facts about these pay cuts. For anyone interested in the facts, see the documents on the council web site at http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/termsandco nditions/. These show that the situation for workers on less than £17,500 is far from rosy. Also, that those earning between £22,000 and £35,000 (hardly extortionate salaries) will get a 4.5% pay cut. (See files for percentage cuts for other wage rates.) In addition, there will be no annual increments for anyone for two years, or cost-of-living pay rise for two years (this following a pay freeze in 2010/11). Part-time workers earning less than £17,500 will get a pay cut if their full-time-equivalent wage is over £17,500. There are many part-time workers in the Council, mainly women workers. The pay cuts are permanent, and will affect all of our pensions (on top of the changes to local authority pensions being planned by the Government). With inflation running at 5%, many of us simply can't afford to accept these cuts, although I don't know anyone who is jubilant about the prospect of strike action. bevoisvalleygirl

1:26am Thu 10 Mar 11

clausentum says...

bevoisvalleygirl wrote:
The Echo, as usual, is muddling the facts about these pay cuts. For anyone interested in the facts, see the documents on the council web site at http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/termsandco

nditions/.
These show that the situation for workers on less than £17,500 is far from rosy. Also, that those earning between £22,000 and £35,000 (hardly extortionate salaries) will get a 4.5% pay cut. (See files for percentage cuts for other wage rates.)
In addition, there will be no annual increments for anyone for two years, or cost-of-living pay rise for two years (this following a pay freeze in 2010/11).
Part-time workers earning less than £17,500 will get a pay cut if their full-time-equivalent wage is over £17,500. There are many part-time workers in the Council, mainly women workers.
The pay cuts are permanent, and will affect all of our pensions (on top of the changes to local authority pensions being planned by the Government).
With inflation running at 5%, many of us simply can't afford to accept these cuts, although I don't know anyone who is jubilant about the prospect of strike action.
You have simply catalogued the sad facts of the economic reality facing central government, local government, every taxpayer and the Country's working and pensionable populations. Alas, it is a tough, cruel, harsh economic climate facing us for some years to come, with no painless remedies. People need to wise up that the Country is economically busted, broke and in need of drastic financial repair.
[quote][p][bold]bevoisvalleygirl[/bold] wrote: The Echo, as usual, is muddling the facts about these pay cuts. For anyone interested in the facts, see the documents on the council web site at http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/termsandco nditions/. These show that the situation for workers on less than £17,500 is far from rosy. Also, that those earning between £22,000 and £35,000 (hardly extortionate salaries) will get a 4.5% pay cut. (See files for percentage cuts for other wage rates.) In addition, there will be no annual increments for anyone for two years, or cost-of-living pay rise for two years (this following a pay freeze in 2010/11). Part-time workers earning less than £17,500 will get a pay cut if their full-time-equivalent wage is over £17,500. There are many part-time workers in the Council, mainly women workers. The pay cuts are permanent, and will affect all of our pensions (on top of the changes to local authority pensions being planned by the Government). With inflation running at 5%, many of us simply can't afford to accept these cuts, although I don't know anyone who is jubilant about the prospect of strike action.[/p][/quote]You have simply catalogued the sad facts of the economic reality facing central government, local government, every taxpayer and the Country's working and pensionable populations. Alas, it is a tough, cruel, harsh economic climate facing us for some years to come, with no painless remedies. People need to wise up that the Country is economically busted, broke and in need of drastic financial repair. clausentum

1:39am Thu 10 Mar 11

Poppy22 says...

Brite Spark wrote:
I've got a brainwave. Why doesn't every house hold become responsible for their own waste, and take it to the dump every 10 days or so - cardboard/recyclable waste and food waste skips? Do without binmen full stop, not rely on their collections, and save the council a lot of money.
Good idea. Our binmen leave a lot of the bin contents on the road anyway and the bins are filthy when they've been emptied (even the recycling bins!!) and they very rarely get put back outside the right house. (Plus they make such a racket in the street between 6.30 and 7am that they drive everyone mad!).
[quote][p][bold]Brite Spark[/bold] wrote: I've got a brainwave. Why doesn't every house hold become responsible for their own waste, and take it to the dump every 10 days or so - cardboard/recyclable waste and food waste skips? Do without binmen full stop, not rely on their collections, and save the council a lot of money.[/p][/quote]Good idea. Our binmen leave a lot of the bin contents on the road anyway and the bins are filthy when they've been emptied (even the recycling bins!!) and they very rarely get put back outside the right house. (Plus they make such a racket in the street between 6.30 and 7am that they drive everyone mad!). Poppy22

6:20am Thu 10 Mar 11

Ant Smoking MP says...

clausentum wrote:
bevoisvalleygirl wrote:
The Echo, as usual, is muddling the facts about these pay cuts. For anyone interested in the facts, see the documents on the council web site at http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/termsandco


nditions/.
These show that the situation for workers on less than £17,500 is far from rosy. Also, that those earning between £22,000 and £35,000 (hardly extortionate salaries) will get a 4.5% pay cut. (See files for percentage cuts for other wage rates.)
In addition, there will be no annual increments for anyone for two years, or cost-of-living pay rise for two years (this following a pay freeze in 2010/11).
Part-time workers earning less than £17,500 will get a pay cut if their full-time-equivalent wage is over £17,500. There are many part-time workers in the Council, mainly women workers.
The pay cuts are permanent, and will affect all of our pensions (on top of the changes to local authority pensions being planned by the Government).
With inflation running at 5%, many of us simply can't afford to accept these cuts, although I don't know anyone who is jubilant about the prospect of strike action.
You have simply catalogued the sad facts of the economic reality facing central government, local government, every taxpayer and the Country's working and pensionable populations. Alas, it is a tough, cruel, harsh economic climate facing us for some years to come, with no painless remedies. People need to wise up that the Country is economically busted, broke and in need of drastic financial repair.
The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish.
Disprove the argument made here
.
http://falseeconomy.
org.uk/
.
Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!!
[quote][p][bold]clausentum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bevoisvalleygirl[/bold] wrote: The Echo, as usual, is muddling the facts about these pay cuts. For anyone interested in the facts, see the documents on the council web site at http://www.southampt on.gov.uk/termsandco nditions/. These show that the situation for workers on less than £17,500 is far from rosy. Also, that those earning between £22,000 and £35,000 (hardly extortionate salaries) will get a 4.5% pay cut. (See files for percentage cuts for other wage rates.) In addition, there will be no annual increments for anyone for two years, or cost-of-living pay rise for two years (this following a pay freeze in 2010/11). Part-time workers earning less than £17,500 will get a pay cut if their full-time-equivalent wage is over £17,500. There are many part-time workers in the Council, mainly women workers. The pay cuts are permanent, and will affect all of our pensions (on top of the changes to local authority pensions being planned by the Government). With inflation running at 5%, many of us simply can't afford to accept these cuts, although I don't know anyone who is jubilant about the prospect of strike action.[/p][/quote]You have simply catalogued the sad facts of the economic reality facing central government, local government, every taxpayer and the Country's working and pensionable populations. Alas, it is a tough, cruel, harsh economic climate facing us for some years to come, with no painless remedies. People need to wise up that the Country is economically busted, broke and in need of drastic financial repair.[/p][/quote]The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish. Disprove the argument made here . http://falseeconomy. org.uk/ . Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!! Ant Smoking MP

6:20am Thu 10 Mar 11

Ant Smoking MP says...

The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish.
Disprove the argument made here
.
http://falseeconomy.
org.uk/
.
Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!!
The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish. Disprove the argument made here . http://falseeconomy. org.uk/ . Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!! Ant Smoking MP

6:29am Thu 10 Mar 11

Ant Smoking MP says...

....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue.
.
The banks created the mess, they should clear it up.
.
Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!!
....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue. . The banks created the mess, they should clear it up. . Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!! Ant Smoking MP

7:02am Thu 10 Mar 11

clausentum says...

Ant Smoking MP wrote:
The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish.
Disprove the argument made here
.
http://falseeconomy.

org.uk/
.
Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!!
The website proves nothing other than offering biased, false propaganda, so your point is ?

What part of . . .

"Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce ."

. . . don't you understand?

Getting back on the road to prosperity is not a Labour or Tory or any other political party issue. It is far bigger an issue than that.

Lift your head above juvenile political mud slinging. Take in the bigger picture of what we want the future to be. Not just ours, but our children's future and their children's future.

We have to fix our Country's financial mess and then go on to successfully compete against the rest of the World, by being smarter than them, more-inventive than them, more productive than them, out-selling them and staying ahead of the game.

If we do that, our children's future will be bright.

If we fail to recognise the huge problems and challenges and opportunities that lay ahead and don't give them our utmost energy and creative thought, then our children will inherit an irreconcilable massive debt burden, a dismal future and will rightly blame us for that.
[quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish. Disprove the argument made here . http://falseeconomy. org.uk/ . Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!![/p][/quote]The website proves nothing other than offering biased, false propaganda, so your point is ? What part of . . . "Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce ." . . . don't you understand? Getting back on the road to prosperity is not a Labour or Tory or any other political party issue. It is far bigger an issue than that. Lift your head above juvenile political mud slinging. Take in the bigger picture of what we want the future to be. Not just ours, but our children's future and their children's future. We have to fix our Country's financial mess and then go on to successfully compete against the rest of the World, by being smarter than them, more-inventive than them, more productive than them, out-selling them and staying ahead of the game. If we do that, our children's future will be bright. If we fail to recognise the huge problems and challenges and opportunities that lay ahead and don't give them our utmost energy and creative thought, then our children will inherit an irreconcilable massive debt burden, a dismal future and will rightly blame us for that. clausentum

9:36am Thu 10 Mar 11

mikeyt says...

What about the £200K fat cats at the top of the council? How about they take a 50% paycut and help out the poor sods at the bottom of the heap.

No council job is worth £200K a year.

If the dusties go on strike we should all dump our bags of rubbish outside the council leader's home or office. He would soon sort out the problem.
What about the £200K fat cats at the top of the council? How about they take a 50% paycut and help out the poor sods at the bottom of the heap. No council job is worth £200K a year. If the dusties go on strike we should all dump our bags of rubbish outside the council leader's home or office. He would soon sort out the problem. mikeyt

8:01pm Thu 10 Mar 11

Ant Smoking MP says...

clausentum wrote:
Ant Smoking MP wrote:
The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish.
Disprove the argument made here
.
http://falseeconomy.


org.uk/
.
Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!!
The website proves nothing other than offering biased, false propaganda, so your point is ?

What part of . . .

"Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce ."

. . . don't you understand?

Getting back on the road to prosperity is not a Labour or Tory or any other political party issue. It is far bigger an issue than that.

Lift your head above juvenile political mud slinging. Take in the bigger picture of what we want the future to be. Not just ours, but our children's future and their children's future.

We have to fix our Country's financial mess and then go on to successfully compete against the rest of the World, by being smarter than them, more-inventive than them, more productive than them, out-selling them and staying ahead of the game.

If we do that, our children's future will be bright.

If we fail to recognise the huge problems and challenges and opportunities that lay ahead and don't give them our utmost energy and creative thought, then our children will inherit an irreconcilable massive debt burden, a dismal future and will rightly blame us for that.
Rubbish!!
You are just echoing empty Tory Propoganda. I understand perfectly what is at stake. And that is the livelyhoods of hundreds of thousands of public sector workers who will be sacked. There are no private sector jobs to go for because they are still in recession or are exploiting weak UK employment laws to sack workers and move abroad.
It is people like you who people will blame for what we are left with.
[quote][p][bold]clausentum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish. Disprove the argument made here . http://falseeconomy. org.uk/ . Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!![/p][/quote]The website proves nothing other than offering biased, false propaganda, so your point is ? What part of . . . "Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce ." . . . don't you understand? Getting back on the road to prosperity is not a Labour or Tory or any other political party issue. It is far bigger an issue than that. Lift your head above juvenile political mud slinging. Take in the bigger picture of what we want the future to be. Not just ours, but our children's future and their children's future. We have to fix our Country's financial mess and then go on to successfully compete against the rest of the World, by being smarter than them, more-inventive than them, more productive than them, out-selling them and staying ahead of the game. If we do that, our children's future will be bright. If we fail to recognise the huge problems and challenges and opportunities that lay ahead and don't give them our utmost energy and creative thought, then our children will inherit an irreconcilable massive debt burden, a dismal future and will rightly blame us for that.[/p][/quote]Rubbish!! You are just echoing empty Tory Propoganda. I understand perfectly what is at stake. And that is the livelyhoods of hundreds of thousands of public sector workers who will be sacked. There are no private sector jobs to go for because they are still in recession or are exploiting weak UK employment laws to sack workers and move abroad. It is people like you who people will blame for what we are left with. Ant Smoking MP

8:37pm Thu 10 Mar 11

clausentum says...

Ant Smoking MP wrote:
clausentum wrote:
Ant Smoking MP wrote:
The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish.
Disprove the argument made here
.
http://falseeconomy.



org.uk/
.
Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!!
The website proves nothing other than offering biased, false propaganda, so your point is ?

What part of . . .

"Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce ."

. . . don't you understand?

Getting back on the road to prosperity is not a Labour or Tory or any other political party issue. It is far bigger an issue than that.

Lift your head above juvenile political mud slinging. Take in the bigger picture of what we want the future to be. Not just ours, but our children's future and their children's future.

We have to fix our Country's financial mess and then go on to successfully compete against the rest of the World, by being smarter than them, more-inventive than them, more productive than them, out-selling them and staying ahead of the game.

If we do that, our children's future will be bright.

If we fail to recognise the huge problems and challenges and opportunities that lay ahead and don't give them our utmost energy and creative thought, then our children will inherit an irreconcilable massive debt burden, a dismal future and will rightly blame us for that.
Rubbish!!
You are just echoing empty Tory Propoganda. I understand perfectly what is at stake. And that is the livelyhoods of hundreds of thousands of public sector workers who will be sacked. There are no private sector jobs to go for because they are still in recession or are exploiting weak UK employment laws to sack workers and move abroad.
It is people like you who people will blame for what we are left with.
Okay. Don't lift your gaze above the encrusted bit of chewing gum stuck on the pavement in front of you. Don't raise your head to peer at the horizon ahead. Don't engage your brain into any activity more energetic that small-minded self-interest. On the plus side, have you thought of switching out the "ant" in your username and substituting it with "grasshopper"?
[quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]clausentum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: The country is not busted. That is in my opinion rubbish. Disprove the argument made here . http://falseeconomy. org.uk/ . Its a tough cruel world for Tories but they have to wake up and smell the coffee. Their Cut and Sack policies will in my opinion be met by powerful, mass opposition. Get use to it!![/p][/quote]The website proves nothing other than offering biased, false propaganda, so your point is ? What part of . . . "Our greatest chance of grappling with the reality of our current financial woes is to cut our spending, reduce our deficit, develop clean energy, ditch our reliance on foreign oil and harness the talents , energy , creativity and efforts of our workforce ." . . . don't you understand? Getting back on the road to prosperity is not a Labour or Tory or any other political party issue. It is far bigger an issue than that. Lift your head above juvenile political mud slinging. Take in the bigger picture of what we want the future to be. Not just ours, but our children's future and their children's future. We have to fix our Country's financial mess and then go on to successfully compete against the rest of the World, by being smarter than them, more-inventive than them, more productive than them, out-selling them and staying ahead of the game. If we do that, our children's future will be bright. If we fail to recognise the huge problems and challenges and opportunities that lay ahead and don't give them our utmost energy and creative thought, then our children will inherit an irreconcilable massive debt burden, a dismal future and will rightly blame us for that.[/p][/quote]Rubbish!! You are just echoing empty Tory Propoganda. I understand perfectly what is at stake. And that is the livelyhoods of hundreds of thousands of public sector workers who will be sacked. There are no private sector jobs to go for because they are still in recession or are exploiting weak UK employment laws to sack workers and move abroad. It is people like you who people will blame for what we are left with.[/p][/quote]Okay. Don't lift your gaze above the encrusted bit of chewing gum stuck on the pavement in front of you. Don't raise your head to peer at the horizon ahead. Don't engage your brain into any activity more energetic that small-minded self-interest. On the plus side, have you thought of switching out the "ant" in your username and substituting it with "grasshopper"? clausentum

8:51pm Thu 10 Mar 11

loosehead says...

Ant Smoking MP wrote:
....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue.
.
The banks created the mess, they should clear it up.
.
Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!!
So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks?
[quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: ....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue. . The banks created the mess, they should clear it up. . Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!![/p][/quote]So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks? loosehead

8:12am Fri 11 Mar 11

Ant Smoking MP says...

Meanwhile why Tory posters on here peddle their idealogical rubbish their political party flounders in the polls.It has been less than a year since the government no one wanted took power.
.
http://ukpollingrepo
rt.co.uk/
Meanwhile why Tory posters on here peddle their idealogical rubbish their political party flounders in the polls.It has been less than a year since the government no one wanted took power. . http://ukpollingrepo rt.co.uk/ Ant Smoking MP

8:13am Fri 11 Mar 11

Ant Smoking MP says...

loosehead wrote:
Ant Smoking MP wrote:
....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue.
.
The banks created the mess, they should clear it up.
.
Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!!
So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks?
To answer your very last sentence (after the incoherent ramblins!!)
.
Yes
.
And I have posted it elsewhere on the Echo site
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: ....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue. . The banks created the mess, they should clear it up. . Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!![/p][/quote]So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks?[/p][/quote]To answer your very last sentence (after the incoherent ramblins!!) . Yes . And I have posted it elsewhere on the Echo site Ant Smoking MP

10:48am Fri 11 Mar 11

loosehead says...

Ant Smoking MP wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ant Smoking MP wrote:
....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue.
.
The banks created the mess, they should clear it up.
.
Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!!
So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks?
To answer your very last sentence (after the incoherent ramblins!!)
.
Yes
.
And I have posted it elsewhere on the Echo site
I have noticed that the only way you can answer some one who disagrees with your view point is to either make of them or to just ridicule them.incoherent ramblings. tell me this when Gordan Brown was approached by an elderly lady expressing the views of many Labour supporters did he not call her a racist? or was this just incoherent ramblings?When Gordan Brown & Labour promised us the electorate a vote on the European constitution ( which they re named) was this just incoherent ramblings? Your so pathetic you jumped on a spelling mistake to ridicule me instead of putting up real reasons why I should agree with your view point which tells me your arguments are weak & you know that Labour hasn't got a leg to stand on after the mess they've left this country in oh! didn't they promise reform on welfare ? didn't they promise to get people working if they were capable? to get them of invalidity pay? Every where you look Labour failed to do what they promised & have left us with a mess just like the past Labour councils that we the people of Southampton had to endure.Try changing your title TO BLINKERED of Bitterne Park it would fit perfectly
[quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: ....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue. . The banks created the mess, they should clear it up. . Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!![/p][/quote]So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks?[/p][/quote]To answer your very last sentence (after the incoherent ramblins!!) . Yes . And I have posted it elsewhere on the Echo site[/p][/quote]I have noticed that the only way you can answer some one who disagrees with your view point is to either make of them or to just ridicule them.incoherent ramblings. tell me this when Gordan Brown was approached by an elderly lady expressing the views of many Labour supporters did he not call her a racist? or was this just incoherent ramblings?When Gordan Brown & Labour promised us the electorate a vote on the European constitution ( which they re named) was this just incoherent ramblings? Your so pathetic you jumped on a spelling mistake to ridicule me instead of putting up real reasons why I should agree with your view point which tells me your arguments are weak & you know that Labour hasn't got a leg to stand on after the mess they've left this country in oh! didn't they promise reform on welfare ? didn't they promise to get people working if they were capable? to get them of invalidity pay? Every where you look Labour failed to do what they promised & have left us with a mess just like the past Labour councils that we the people of Southampton had to endure.Try changing your title TO BLINKERED of Bitterne Park it would fit perfectly loosehead

12:14pm Fri 11 Mar 11

Ant Smoking MP says...

loosehead wrote:
Ant Smoking MP wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ant Smoking MP wrote:
....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue.
.
The banks created the mess, they should clear it up.
.
Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!!
So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks?
To answer your very last sentence (after the incoherent ramblins!!)
.
Yes
.
And I have posted it elsewhere on the Echo site
I have noticed that the only way you can answer some one who disagrees with your view point is to either make of them or to just ridicule them.incoherent ramblings. tell me this when Gordan Brown was approached by an elderly lady expressing the views of many Labour supporters did he not call her a racist? or was this just incoherent ramblings?When Gordan Brown & Labour promised us the electorate a vote on the European constitution ( which they re named) was this just incoherent ramblings? Your so pathetic you jumped on a spelling mistake to ridicule me instead of putting up real reasons why I should agree with your view point which tells me your arguments are weak & you know that Labour hasn't got a leg to stand on after the mess they've left this country in oh! didn't they promise reform on welfare ? didn't they promise to get people working if they were capable? to get them of invalidity pay? Every where you look Labour failed to do what they promised & have left us with a mess just like the past Labour councils that we the people of Southampton had to endure.Try changing your title TO BLINKERED of Bitterne Park it would fit perfectly
I hope that has made you feel better.
.
The point is I dont want you to agree with my view point. Where did you get that idea? BTW I was thinking of changing my title but you have convinced me to keep it as a reminder.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote: ....and another thing. This rubbish peddled about by Tories that banks would leave the country if regulated. Banks like HSBC and Barclays do a lot of business in the UK so if they did move their HQs out, the business would still remain and so would the tax revenue. . The banks created the mess, they should clear it up. . Pass word ; rich-bill, very apt!![/p][/quote]So if there headquarters are in Hong Kong would they still have to pay corporation tax ? would the people working in their offices you know the ones who get big bonuses pay taxes here & would not your computer operators not lose their jobs? BAT employees believed they would never leave Southampton the Labour Government were warned put up NI stamp & were off The Government nor the workforce believed it but they were both wrong where's BAT's production facility now. If HSBC & Barclays investors ( shareholders) say move & force a vote they will move so who's talking rubbish? who released the brakes on the banks & doesn't he bear some of the responsibility you know Gordan Brown.Even Ed Balls has admitted that Labour had contributed to this mess & there was no money in the kitty so your saying that you know better than an ex government minister? yes lets have mass strikes with our international rating going to pieces & the money men taking their money away so that we have to run to Europe & the IMF just like Labour did before.Hopefully we will still have a manufacturing industry left by the time we come to our senses.The Irish the Greeks must be thinking we're mad when they listen to people like you & your Labour crap.I will vote for the party that will get us out of this mess otherwise I have no party loyalties,Have you got any good ideas that will save those council jobs & keep their wage structure with out bleating on about the banks?[/p][/quote]To answer your very last sentence (after the incoherent ramblins!!) . Yes . And I have posted it elsewhere on the Echo site[/p][/quote]I have noticed that the only way you can answer some one who disagrees with your view point is to either make of them or to just ridicule them.incoherent ramblings. tell me this when Gordan Brown was approached by an elderly lady expressing the views of many Labour supporters did he not call her a racist? or was this just incoherent ramblings?When Gordan Brown & Labour promised us the electorate a vote on the European constitution ( which they re named) was this just incoherent ramblings? Your so pathetic you jumped on a spelling mistake to ridicule me instead of putting up real reasons why I should agree with your view point which tells me your arguments are weak & you know that Labour hasn't got a leg to stand on after the mess they've left this country in oh! didn't they promise reform on welfare ? didn't they promise to get people working if they were capable? to get them of invalidity pay? Every where you look Labour failed to do what they promised & have left us with a mess just like the past Labour councils that we the people of Southampton had to endure.Try changing your title TO BLINKERED of Bitterne Park it would fit perfectly[/p][/quote]I hope that has made you feel better. . The point is I dont want you to agree with my view point. Where did you get that idea? BTW I was thinking of changing my title but you have convinced me to keep it as a reminder. Ant Smoking MP

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