Council billed for ‘80 taxis a day’ in mileage rate row (From Daily Echo)

As the use of own car requirement is specified in council job adverts (and people then apply for a job knowing that), then that must be a term of their contract. That then means the workers are breaching their contracts, which surely means they can be dismissed?? So why is the council paying out for taxi fares and not just sacking the people concerned and taking on more agency workers/temps with the right skills? Or presumably the council could claim back the taxi fares, less own car expense amounts, out of the workers' salaries???
If public sector workers want the public's support, they're going about it the totally wrong way!

why is someone going to Lee On Solent, isn't that in Gosport? At 45p a mile you'd make £18 in fuel allowance which would easily cover the cost of the trip and the wear and tear on your car. Also, it's a legal requirement to have a road worthy car so anyone driving would need to keep it safe - it's not the sole responsibility of the employer.

Can't really blame them, with fuel costs spiralling the mileage rate should have gone up, not down.

Poppy22 wrote:
As the use of own car requirement is specified in council job adverts (and people then apply for a job knowing that), then that must be a term of their contract. That then means the workers are breaching their contracts, which surely means they can be dismissed?? So why is the council paying out for taxi fares and not just sacking the people concerned and taking on more agency workers/temps with the right skills? Or presumably the council could claim back the taxi fares, less own car expense amounts, out of the workers' salaries??? If public sector workers want the public's support, they're going about it the totally wrong way!

Ironic that you talk of the council workers being in breach of contract, what about the council, who would have stated what the milage rate is for using their own cars?

What has to be remembered is that the price of petrol has risen on practically a daily basis, and the mileage allowance is also to cover wear and tear on the car. Tyres wear out whilst being used on Council business as well as private use.

On the one hand this Council is pleading poverty, on the other it seems to have more than enough money to waste on hiring taxis, which cost many times more than mileage allowance, if paid to workers
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Obviously economically it does not make any sense, so there has got to be some other reason why they are adopting this economic policy from mad house
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It Does not need a space scientist to work out that Tories are funding the implementation of their anti organised workers policy and financing it with the people’s money
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Surely I can’t be the only one who can see similarities in this Tory controlled council’s policy and what their goddess of evil Thatcher did to the miners?
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Trade Unionists and Labour movement under the spell of NuLabourites and right wingers, made a massive mistake by betraying the miners in mid 1980s, that mistake should not be repeated
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Trade unions and labour movement should commit full support for these workers on strike, and also demand to know why both local Labour MPs are virtually silent and have not openly come out in favour of the striking workers?
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Why the local Labour Party has gone quite on this? Is it because as part of thatcherite group of political parties they too want to do the same as Tories?

This is a non-story. Taxi rides are either an allowable expense under the empoyees TACs or they are not. If they are then the wording will probably give the council plenty of room to refuse to pay any expenses they seem unreasonable. All I know is that the chances of Denham clinging onto his seat at the next election will be zero. Royston Smith is not seen as the villain here by most people in the city, only the tunnel-visioned socialist dinosaurs.

Is the penny beginning to drop folks?
The unions are not going to back down, they wont be bullied by corrupt government officials and they are hitting the council where it hurts! Good on them, otherwise would this dictatoship of a council take any notice?
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How long will it take rambo Royston and Chief Neil to realise that the workers who are being bullied and unfairly treated will not stop costing the council money until they will sit down at the table to negotiate not dictate!
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Dont shake the nest, if you don't want to get stung! Mess with peoples livlihoods or you will pay the price!

Seems to me the tunnel vision is a bit two way. When the overpaid miners were blatantly trying to bring down Maggies government they were rightfully put in their place, in todays disagreement there is merit to both sides arguments, the country was left in a financial mess by the last government, however I would be more inclined to support the Tory point of view were it not for them creating a milieu where the rich are getting richer and leaving us plebs to pay the cost of it all. The local Toties are playing poodle to Ca-moron to our cost.

Poppy22 wrote:
As the use of own car requirement is specified in council job adverts (and people then apply for a job knowing that), then that must be a term of their contract. That then means the workers are breaching their contracts, which surely means they can be dismissed?? So why is the council paying out for taxi fares and not just sacking the people concerned and taking on more agency workers/temps with the right skills? Or presumably the council could claim back the taxi fares, less own car expense amounts, out of the workers' salaries???
If public sector workers want the public's support, they're going about it the totally wrong way!

Surely if the council are trying to force these workers to take a pay cut or lose their jobs then the contracts they have are not worth the paper they are printed on???

s/w onto-hold hahaha x

BurningRAGE wrote:
Is the penny beginning to drop folks?
The unions are not going to back down, they wont be bullied by corrupt government officials and they are hitting the council where it hurts! Good on them, otherwise would this dictatoship of a council take any notice?
-
How long will it take rambo Royston and Chief Neil to realise that the workers who are being bullied and unfairly treated will not stop costing the council money until they will sit down at the table to negotiate not dictate!
-
Dont shake the nest, if you don't want to get stung! Mess with peoples livlihoods or you will pay the price!

the only penny dropping is that the people of southampton see public sector workers who have had it far too good for far too long. They are being paid far too much for doing an average to below-average job. Most people can't afford to lounge around "on strike". these people should be grateful to have a job. millions are having pay cuts... wakey wakey lefty dinosaurs... this is 2011 and we are a bancrupt country. there is no money. labour spent it all and left a note in the treasury rubbing all our faces in it. Where did people think all those money-pit shemes of the last 13 years were funded from ? money trees ? the unions "may not back down" but they will ultimately achieve nothing because there simply is no money. It does not exist and there is no legal framework to borrow it.... so unless the unions can busy themselves and plant these money trees quickly... its a waste of time.

tiggerlou wrote:

Poppy22 wrote:
As the use of own car requirement is specified in council job adverts (and people then apply for a job knowing that), then that must be a term of their contract. That then means the workers are breaching their contracts, which surely means they can be dismissed?? So why is the council paying out for taxi fares and not just sacking the people concerned and taking on more agency workers/temps with the right skills? Or presumably the council could claim back the taxi fares, less own car expense amounts, out of the workers' salaries???
If public sector workers want the public's support, they're going about it the totally wrong way!

Surely if the council are trying to force these workers to take a pay cut or lose their jobs then the contracts they have are not worth the paper they are printed on???

s/w onto-hold hahaha x

Exactly right. They have been given two letters, one they must sign to say that they've received the new terms and conditions, and a second they must sign to say they agree otherwise they loose there job.

So essentially you're right, not even worth the paper they're written on, hence the reason I know someone has taken voluntary redundancy this year instead of being pushed next year after signing the terms.

The financial situation was causes by the banks, how many times does it need to be said before it gets through your thick condem heads believing heads. Are you going to blame Labour for the global financial crisis too? The condems are practically in bed with the bankers, therefore trying to profit from this so called black hole.

Inform Al wrote:
Seems to me the tunnel vision is a bit two way. When the overpaid miners were blatantly trying to bring down Maggies government they were rightfully put in their place, in todays disagreement there is merit to both sides arguments, the country was left in a financial mess by the last government, however I would be more inclined to support the Tory point of view were it not for them creating a milieu where the rich are getting richer and leaving us plebs to pay the cost of it all. The local Toties are playing poodle to Ca-moron to our cost.

You are quite correct about the last government. Apart from a huge debt mountain, they managed to widen the gap between the haves and the have nots - that is the Labour legacy! (that and the WMD!).
You cannot realistically pin anything on the Tories yet-they've only been in government 5 minutes! Given that they inherited the desperate state of our finances and ongoing financial commitments, the priority is to get spending down as fast as possible.

DJ Teh wrote:

tiggerlou wrote:

Poppy22 wrote:
As the use of own car requirement is specified in council job adverts (and people then apply for a job knowing that), then that must be a term of their contract. That then means the workers are breaching their contracts, which surely means they can be dismissed?? So why is the council paying out for taxi fares and not just sacking the people concerned and taking on more agency workers/temps with the right skills? Or presumably the council could claim back the taxi fares, less own car expense amounts, out of the workers' salaries???
If public sector workers want the public's support, they're going about it the totally wrong way!

Surely if the council are trying to force these workers to take a pay cut or lose their jobs then the contracts they have are not worth the paper they are printed on???

s/w onto-hold hahaha x

Exactly right. They have been given two letters, one they must sign to say that they've received the new terms and conditions, and a second they must sign to say they agree otherwise they loose there job.

So essentially you're right, not even worth the paper they're written on, hence the reason I know someone has taken voluntary redundancy this year instead of being pushed next year after signing the terms.

The financial situation was causes by the banks, how many times does it need to be said before it gets through your thick condem heads believing heads. Are you going to blame Labour for the global financial crisis too? The condems are practically in bed with the bankers, therefore trying to profit from this so called black hole.

I suggest you go back and see how our National Debt built up year by year under Labour from a starting point of ZERO! You will also note that their spending commitments pushed this total over £1000 Billion (Yes, £1000 BIllion) earlier this year, and it is still rising!
Yes, some money was spent on buying the shares of banks - up to £150 million - money that we will get back when the shares are sold.)

When the establishment and its mouth pieces say there is no money, they basically are saying that there is no money for paying decent pay for hard day’s work to the over-exploited workers

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Because they seem to have plenty of funds for bombing other nations, bailing out the bankers, donating to failed nations of the Euro Zone, donating to places like Pakistan that specialise in exporting terrorism, and let us not talk about our de-facto masters of the EU in Brussels
.
Workers and the ordinary people did not create the so called mess so why should the innocent be made to pay the price for the follies, greed and neo-imperialist ambitions of establishment’s favourite few?

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
When the establishment and its mouth pieces say there is no money, they basically are saying that there is no money for paying decent pay for hard day’s work to the over-exploited workers

.
Because they seem to have plenty of funds for bombing other nations, bailing out the bankers, donating to failed nations of the Euro Zone, donating to places like Pakistan that specialise in exporting terrorism, and let us not talk about our de-facto masters of the EU in Brussels
.
Workers and the ordinary people did not create the so called mess so why should the innocent be made to pay the price for the follies, greed and neo-imperialist ambitions of establishment’s favourite few?

How come that when people with the same views as you and Southy get into a position of power, they then take advantage and become what they purported to fight against?!

Greedy public sector workers, even 45p per mile is ridiculous. In the private sector I used to get 20p per mile before they made cutbacks to 10p per mile, and even at 10p per mile the mileage expense covers virtually all the cost of my fuel on the given trip. When my company made cutbacks did everybody go on strike? No, we accepted it, times are tough and we wanted to keep our jobs. Then again, we have private sector mentality. Public sector mentality is to go on strike for any excuse.

MGRA wrote:
This is a non-story. Taxi rides are either an allowable expense under the empoyees TACs or they are not. If they are then the wording will probably give the council plenty of room to refuse to pay any expenses they seem unreasonable. All I know is that the chances of Denham clinging onto his seat at the next election will be zero. Royston Smith is not seen as the villain here by most people in the city, only the tunnel-visioned socialist dinosaurs.

It will not matter how it is worded, No Contract is legal if it requires for you to must use your own transport to do the job. By law the employer must supply you with transport while in working hours if needed, And the use of your own transport with in working hours is an option the employer gives to the employee, for the employer to save money.

How were they getting 54p a mile! I have my own company and can only claim 40p a mile, although think that has now rose to 45p a mile.

SotonNorth wrote:
Greedy public sector workers, even 45p per mile is ridiculous. In the private sector I used to get 20p per mile before they made cutbacks to 10p per mile, and even at 10p per mile the mileage expense covers virtually all the cost of my fuel on the given trip. When my company made cutbacks did everybody go on strike? No, we accepted it, times are tough and we wanted to keep our jobs. Then again, we have private sector mentality. Public sector mentality is to go on strike for any excuse.

Dont tell me ..... ..in your day you go to the pictures, have 10 Woodbines and a fish and chip supper and get change from a penny !!!.
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When you had 10p per mile what else did you get, Free service, free tyres, free insurance, car tax, car allowance.
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There is no way that you can run a car on 10p per mile and NO respected employer would ask you to.
.
Your last comment about public sector workers is pathetic

StEmmosfire wrote:
How were they getting 54p a mile! I have my own company and can only claim 40p a mile, although think that has now rose to 45p a mile.

StEmmo .......... you can be paid anything above 40/45p per mile but you will be taxed on the extra. So 54p or even 90p is possible but you will get taxed

George4th wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
When the establishment and its mouth pieces say there is no money, they basically are saying that there is no money for paying decent pay for hard day’s work to the over-exploited workers

.
Because they seem to have plenty of funds for bombing other nations, bailing out the bankers, donating to failed nations of the Euro Zone, donating to places like Pakistan that specialise in exporting terrorism, and let us not talk about our de-facto masters of the EU in Brussels
.
Workers and the ordinary people did not create the so called mess so why should the innocent be made to pay the price for the follies, greed and neo-imperialist ambitions of establishment’s favourite few?

How come that when people with the same views as you and Southy get into a position of power, they then take advantage and become what they purported to fight against?!

Having views and taking the right kind of action can often be different. Like I have said many times in the pass, A person can call him/her self any thing but its the actions that say what they really are.
An example would be Nationalist Socialist no such thing in reality the two can not go together, Nationalist is about a single country people, where has Socialist is about workers of any nationality, So in reality a National Socialist is Socialism for the Super Rich only, where the top 2% Capitalist will share between the 2% only and take from the others and not give any thing back. It should be called National Capitalist because that what they really are, but who in there right minds would vote for such a thing, So changing the one word, makes it more pleasing to the voters, Dog Whistling Politics.
Milliban is making all the right sound bytes, that he all for the working class, but in reality he not, and has all ready shown that he has no intentions of doing any thing for the workers, He intends to keep the Labour Party a Right Wing Political Party.

SotonNorth wrote:
Greedy public sector workers, even 45p per mile is ridiculous. In the private sector I used to get 20p per mile before they made cutbacks to 10p per mile, and even at 10p per mile the mileage expense covers virtually all the cost of my fuel on the given trip. When my company made cutbacks did everybody go on strike? No, we accepted it, times are tough and we wanted to keep our jobs. Then again, we have private sector mentality. Public sector mentality is to go on strike for any excuse.

Greedy? I'm sorry, these guys keep the city running.

You're the greedy over paid private sector worker. I call BS on the 10p a mile, even here its at least 40p a mile, and we're a small tour operator

Firstly imposing a contract without agreement is unlawful. Secondly, the fuel rate paid at 54p per mile will be a part of that contract as it is a custom and practice unless contracts state that the council can change the amounts. I understand that sacking workers who refuse the imposed contracts may be the subject of litigation. Certainly if they are made redundant then they cannot easily be replaced.

Sotonnorth must have a company car or allowance at that rate, or he is deluded and losing money every time he uses his car for work. The actual HMRC rate for own car use is 45p a mile. Any amount over this is subject to tax. 45p is considered to be the right amount for own car use by the government who sets the rate.

Poppy22 does not understand the cost of agency workers or temps and the fact that sacking workers is usually unlawful unless they do anything wrong. In my view the workers are unlikely to be in breach of contract because they are unhappy with using their own cars.

The politics aside I ask, how many people are happy to take a pay cut when in many cases they are on low wages anyway?

MGRA wrote:

BurningRAGE wrote: Is the penny beginning to drop folks? The unions are not going to back down, they wont be bullied by corrupt government officials and they are hitting the council where it hurts! Good on them, otherwise would this dictatoship of a council take any notice? - How long will it take rambo Royston and Chief Neil to realise that the workers who are being bullied and unfairly treated will not stop costing the council money until they will sit down at the table to negotiate not dictate! - Dont shake the nest, if you don't want to get stung! Mess with peoples livlihoods or you will pay the price!

the only penny dropping is that the people of southampton see public sector workers who have had it far too good for far too long. They are being paid far too much for doing an average to below-average job. Most people can't afford to lounge around "on strike". these people should be grateful to have a job. millions are having pay cuts... wakey wakey lefty dinosaurs... this is 2011 and we are a bancrupt country. there is no money. labour spent it all and left a note in the treasury rubbing all our faces in it. Where did people think all those money-pit shemes of the last 13 years were funded from ? money trees ? the unions "may not back down" but they will ultimately achieve nothing because there simply is no money. It does not exist and there is no legal framework to borrow it.... so unless the unions can busy themselves and plant these money trees quickly... its a waste of time.

There are people on these threads who need to get out more, too much un-informed rubbish. My employer has decided that to make ends meet it needs to reduce the terms & conditions of myself and fellow workers. If they had suggested a one year programme of cuts, perhaps there might be something to talk about. Strapped for cash and yet there is a 10% reduction of council tax - about a million pounds. No council tax for special constables. The reductions made were with the ballot box in mind and not the good orer of Council finances. Is there anyone able to absorb a cut in salary of £1000 a year on top of rent increases of 6%, fuel bills up 9% and inflation at 4.5% and rising? If you can do let me know. As to UK Plc being bankrupt; the FT Index is back to pre slup levels, bankers bonuses are rising again, we are funding a war in Afganistan and help in the bombing of Libya at about £39 millions a day. Not bad for a supposedly bankrupt country. The public sector that you so happily denigrate, clean your streets, empty your bins, educate your children and nurse you when you are sick so please, a little more understanding and a little less stupid comment would help greatly.

SotonNorth wrote:
Greedy public sector workers, even 45p per mile is ridiculous. In the private sector I used to get 20p per mile before they made cutbacks to 10p per mile, and even at 10p per mile the mileage expense covers virtually all the cost of my fuel on the given trip. When my company made cutbacks did everybody go on strike? No, we accepted it, times are tough and we wanted to keep our jobs. Then again, we have private sector mentality. Public sector mentality is to go on strike for any excuse.

Your final comment is a little harsh. Not all of us public sector workers go on strike at any excuse. I accepted the terms straight away and feel that we all should do our bit to help each other - share some cuts to help save jobs....I also think it's getting a bit too political and the focus has been lost as to what this was all about in the first place.

What a deluded, blinkered set of morons posting on this site about financial matters they know nothing about.
The MAJORITY of Council workers are average paid employees with average terms and conditions of employment.
Terms and conditions of employment are protected by law.
The irony of the Southampton Council Policy is it is set against the Manifesto promises that were published in leaflets and poked through everybody's letterbox.

There would be NO deteriation of services at the public interface.
The refuse bins would still be collected Every Week. Social Services would be maintained for all, including the elderly.
Think on this. No Council or Private Company employs one single person it doesn't need.
What the Southampton Council are doing is dishonest. Having made all the promises to the electorate, they now have the cheek to tell their workers, Oh by-the-way, you will be expected to pay for our promises by taking a pay cut !
For someone on low pay, any cut is substantial.
There are a number of financial cuts that can still be implemented without affecting front-line services.
Have the ruling Administration the courage to make THOSE cuts ??

Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

How about you jog on and take your anti-free speech crud else where idiot.

Its our right to strike, and we will regardless.

If a law gets passed like this, it will only end up in revolt.

You'd be the first to moan if something you had was getting taken from you.

I get paid 12p a mile but i get a subsidised lease car. thats the best way, i dont worry about repairs or MOTs and my employer (NHS) save cash as well.

54p a mile sounds alot but if you are wearing your car out it is not.

hatpacker wrote:

MGRA wrote:

BurningRAGE wrote: Is the penny beginning to drop folks? The unions are not going to back down, they wont be bullied by corrupt government officials and they are hitting the council where it hurts! Good on them, otherwise would this dictatoship of a council take any notice? - How long will it take rambo Royston and Chief Neil to realise that the workers who are being bullied and unfairly treated will not stop costing the council money until they will sit down at the table to negotiate not dictate! - Dont shake the nest, if you don't want to get stung! Mess with peoples livlihoods or you will pay the price!

the only penny dropping is that the people of southampton see public sector workers who have had it far too good for far too long. They are being paid far too much for doing an average to below-average job. Most people can't afford to lounge around "on strike". these people should be grateful to have a job. millions are having pay cuts... wakey wakey lefty dinosaurs... this is 2011 and we are a bancrupt country. there is no money. labour spent it all and left a note in the treasury rubbing all our faces in it. Where did people think all those money-pit shemes of the last 13 years were funded from ? money trees ? the unions "may not back down" but they will ultimately achieve nothing because there simply is no money. It does not exist and there is no legal framework to borrow it.... so unless the unions can busy themselves and plant these money trees quickly... its a waste of time.

There are people on these threads who need to get out more, too much un-informed rubbish. My employer has decided that to make ends meet it needs to reduce the terms & conditions of myself and fellow workers. If they had suggested a one year programme of cuts, perhaps there might be something to talk about. Strapped for cash and yet there is a 10% reduction of council tax - about a million pounds. No council tax for special constables. The reductions made were with the ballot box in mind and not the good orer of Council finances. Is there anyone able to absorb a cut in salary of £1000 a year on top of rent increases of 6%, fuel bills up 9% and inflation at 4.5% and rising? If you can do let me know. As to UK Plc being bankrupt; the FT Index is back to pre slup levels, bankers bonuses are rising again, we are funding a war in Afganistan and help in the bombing of Libya at about £39 millions a day. Not bad for a supposedly bankrupt country. The public sector that you so happily denigrate, clean your streets, empty your bins, educate your children and nurse you when you are sick so please, a little more understanding and a little less stupid comment would help greatly.

I must take you to task on your first sentence
.
Quote:- There are people on these threads who need to get out more.
.
Please NO ....... some of the posters you refer to are not safe out on the streets....... they must be kept inside their own sad little worlds.
.

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

While most of us do believe in obeying and respecting the laws passed by the parliament, those right wingers who are threatening to pass unbearably oppressive draconian and totally unfair laws for the purpose of forcing poverty on the working people and for helping the rich should know that it will not only back fire, but could also contribute towards decreasing the respect for democratic institutions. Because the majority of the clear thinking and fair minded people will not tolerate that kind of virtual dictatorship or senseless stupidity
.
The establishment’s arrogance of forcing certain tax on Americans triggered campaign and created USA, Salt tax on Indians ended up in demolition of the most powerful empire. Also let us not forget what happened when they tried to force poll tax only few years ago
.
Labour’s traitor turned Liberal-Democrat who has now become the darling of Tories Vince Cable and others of his ilk should remember that brutality dished out to workers of Tolepuddle only ended in creating powerful trade union movement. Any repeats will only unite us the workers even more. So for their own sake the right wingers should curb their arrogance and think more than twice before threatening striking workers with failed stupidities of the past.

George4th wrote:

DJ Teh wrote:

tiggerlou wrote:

Poppy22 wrote:
As the use of own car requirement is specified in council job adverts (and people then apply for a job knowing that), then that must be a term of their contract. That then means the workers are breaching their contracts, which surely means they can be dismissed?? So why is the council paying out for taxi fares and not just sacking the people concerned and taking on more agency workers/temps with the right skills? Or presumably the council could claim back the taxi fares, less own car expense amounts, out of the workers' salaries???
If public sector workers want the public's support, they're going about it the totally wrong way!

Surely if the council are trying to force these workers to take a pay cut or lose their jobs then the contracts they have are not worth the paper they are printed on???

s/w onto-hold hahaha x

Exactly right. They have been given two letters, one they must sign to say that they've received the new terms and conditions, and a second they must sign to say they agree otherwise they loose there job.

So essentially you're right, not even worth the paper they're written on, hence the reason I know someone has taken voluntary redundancy this year instead of being pushed next year after signing the terms.

The financial situation was causes by the banks, how many times does it need to be said before it gets through your thick condem heads believing heads. Are you going to blame Labour for the global financial crisis too? The condems are practically in bed with the bankers, therefore trying to profit from this so called black hole.

I suggest you go back and see how our National Debt built up year by year under Labour from a starting point of ZERO! You will also note that their spending commitments pushed this total over £1000 Billion (Yes, £1000 BIllion) earlier this year, and it is still rising!
Yes, some money was spent on buying the shares of banks - up to £150 million - money that we will get back when the shares are sold.)

Check out the inter -alpha banking groups potential losses ,150 MILLION !!!!, when Greece goes down ,the dominos will fall,the UK will be looking at losses in the TRILLIONS !!!!

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

If that what Moulton said then he is lieing sorry Miss leading the viewers, It was the councilors that refuse to sit down in talks and refuse to get ACAS involved, Theres been no ACAS meeting as yet, it should of happened this week but smithy gone on holiday.
Strike action do not stop both sides sitting down and talking, to the meeting i have gone to so far the councl has made no concesstions what so ever by the council, its been a do it our way and no other way take it or leave it.
it was industal actions that force the council to agree on ACAS meeting, before then the council would not agree to a ACAS meeting.

...and all this with 180 million pounds worth of Art in the civic basement!

DJ Teh wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

How about you jog on and take your anti-free speech crud else where idiot.

Its our right to strike, and we will regardless.

If a law gets passed like this, it will only end up in revolt.

You'd be the first to moan if something you had was getting taken from you.

You total moron how many people get paid to travel to & fro from work? how many people can earn the amount of overtime that the bin men can do ? they aren't going to suffer the way they have been led to believe by a politically motivated Union.The law would be about the amount of the work force that votes for strike action & 10% wouldn't make it.Also if the strike would bring a health hazard to the people the strikers would still be expected to cover their jobs.Tell me where I was against free speech?DJTeh Before you call me names get your facts right! did you watch the politics show? Your union man was the one who looked the baddie no matter what you left wing loonies say.Unlike people like the old who have no choice but to grin & bear it I can quite easily pack my bags & go & leave you loonies to your rose tinted socialist wonderland Which will never happen Your all in LALA land

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

Have you been on the sause again Loosehead? This is just an incoherent rant!!

SotonNorth wrote:
Greedy public sector workers, even 45p per mile is ridiculous. In the private sector I used to get 20p per mile before they made cutbacks to 10p per mile, and even at 10p per mile the mileage expense covers virtually all the cost of my fuel on the given trip. When my company made cutbacks did everybody go on strike? No, we accepted it, times are tough and we wanted to keep our jobs. Then again, we have private sector mentality. Public sector mentality is to go on strike for any excuse.

If you accepted it more fool you. You didnt have to and you could have fought it. If I came up to you in the street , took your wallet out and pocketed £20 would you have let me? Of course you wouldnt yet you let you employer do it without a wimper.
.
These guys at SCC have the bottle and most importantly the organisation to say no to their boss. In my view even if they lose, they had the bottle to stand up, together. Where is your bottle? (You have probably given it to Loosehead, but thats another story!!)

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

SotonNorth wrote:
Greedy public sector workers, even 45p per mile is ridiculous. In the private sector I used to get 20p per mile before they made cutbacks to 10p per mile, and even at 10p per mile the mileage expense covers virtually all the cost of my fuel on the given trip. When my company made cutbacks did everybody go on strike? No, we accepted it, times are tough and we wanted to keep our jobs. Then again, we have private sector mentality. Public sector mentality is to go on strike for any excuse.

If you accepted it more fool you. You didnt have to and you could have fought it. If I came up to you in the street , took your wallet out and pocketed £20 would you have let me? Of course you wouldnt yet you let you employer do it without a wimper.
.
These guys at SCC have the bottle and most importantly the organisation to say no to their boss. In my view even if they lose, they had the bottle to stand up, together. Where is your bottle? (You have probably given it to Loosehead, but thats another story!!)

No one wants job loses or pay cuts however the country is in a financial mess and changes need to be made. The new contracts are aimed at saving some jobs. The unions are going to cost the council a fortune with these pathetic actions which will result in more job loses. Why are people so short sighted? As for public support, of course the public are going to support free parking or free Itchen bridge. They won't be as supportive as the rubbish grows, social care stops, lives are put at risk, etc .... Come on people, get back to work or risk losing your jobs. Plenty out there that will do them for few pennies less if you don't want them.

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

Have you been on the sause again Loosehead? This is just an incoherent rant!!

Once again you turn to the beer comment .After your man Ed Balls went on tv saying Labour would implement cuts I thought you would see that sooner or later these people would have faced these same circumstances & as for incoherent rants did you actually read DJ Teh's comments about me as if you had done you would have seen what my rants were about

a and e wrote:

George4th wrote:

DJ Teh wrote:

tiggerlou wrote:

Poppy22 wrote:
As the use of own car requirement is specified in council job adverts (and people then apply for a job knowing that), then that must be a term of their contract. That then means the workers are breaching their contracts, which surely means they can be dismissed?? So why is the council paying out for taxi fares and not just sacking the people concerned and taking on more agency workers/temps with the right skills? Or presumably the council could claim back the taxi fares, less own car expense amounts, out of the workers' salaries???
If public sector workers want the public's support, they're going about it the totally wrong way!

Surely if the council are trying to force these workers to take a pay cut or lose their jobs then the contracts they have are not worth the paper they are printed on???

s/w onto-hold hahaha x

Exactly right. They have been given two letters, one they must sign to say that they've received the new terms and conditions, and a second they must sign to say they agree otherwise they loose there job.

So essentially you're right, not even worth the paper they're written on, hence the reason I know someone has taken voluntary redundancy this year instead of being pushed next year after signing the terms.

The financial situation was causes by the banks, how many times does it need to be said before it gets through your thick condem heads believing heads. Are you going to blame Labour for the global financial crisis too? The condems are practically in bed with the bankers, therefore trying to profit from this so called black hole.

I suggest you go back and see how our National Debt built up year by year under Labour from a starting point of ZERO! You will also note that their spending commitments pushed this total over £1000 Billion (Yes, £1000 BIllion) earlier this year, and it is still rising!
Yes, some money was spent on buying the shares of banks - up to £150 million - money that we will get back when the shares are sold.)

Check out the inter -alpha banking groups potential losses ,150 MILLION !!!!, when Greece goes down ,the dominos will fall,the UK will be looking at losses in the TRILLIONS !!!!

I heard an interesting thing on the politics show do you know why we had to support the euro zone bail out of Greece & Portugal ? there's a clause in the Lisbon treaty which refers to the safeguarding of Europe ( can't remember the exact words) & if those countries fall so would Europe but the clause the europeans are forcing us to help them with wasn't intended for financial bailouts & MEP's want Cameron to withdraw our support.Another reason to get the hell out of europe don't you think?

BMWDellboy wrote:
Can't really blame them, with fuel costs spiralling the mileage rate should have gone up, not down.

And in fact the mileage allowance given by HMRC has gone up. To 45p.

Please explain to me when a council has to make cuts because of a cut in funding how does getting a taxi & charging the council instead of driving your own car & getting paid mileage help to stop pay cuts & safe guard jobs? surely your just adding to the shortfall meaning more job cuts?

loosehead wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

Have you been on the sause again Loosehead? This is just an incoherent rant!!

Once again you turn to the beer comment .After your man Ed Balls went on tv saying Labour would implement cuts I thought you would see that sooner or later these people would have faced these same circumstances & as for incoherent rants did you actually read DJ Teh's comments about me as if you had done you would have seen what my rants were about

Loosehead. 66% to44% in favour of council workers on the Echo poll. Any reason for this? I thought the entire country was Tory.

nedscrumpo wrote:
...and all this with 180 million pounds worth of Art in the civic basement!

We should not sell that but it should be on display for a modest fee, that might actually attract some visitors to Southampton that arent bloody old gits on way to a cruise

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Reading the comments of Southy,Lone Ranger ,paramjit etc.makes me wonder if any of them watched the politics show on Sunday? The Union guy Lied & when Moulton pulled him on it no reply when Moulton said we have had 4 meetings we have made concessions 4 times we have talks with ACAS booked will you suspend your actions & lets go to these talks & work together to come up with a solution No reply.All the guy said was stop the 10% discount to pensioners who are only getting it if they're on £25,000 well my friend gets it & he's no way near to getting that type of pensions where did he get his figures from? I asked the councillor to call the unions bluff he said they wouldn't stop the strikes so in writing Union man state that you will stop industrial action until after the talks ( starting if no agreement is reached) if the council stop the discount as they say put your money where your mouth is Mr Union man.As for getting Taxis to work does it say in their contracts they will be paid to use Taxis or does it say mileage? refuse payments & get the taxi firms chasing the individual as it's not the council who will have booked them was it? Vince Cable issued a warning to the unions today so if I was you Union dinosaurs I would get the best deal now before your breaking the law & forced by law to go back to work.Vince hurry up & change the law for the sake of this city ( bin men striking in Brighton?)

Have you been on the sause again Loosehead? This is just an incoherent rant!!

Once again you turn to the beer comment .After your man Ed Balls went on tv saying Labour would implement cuts I thought you would see that sooner or later these people would have faced these same circumstances & as for incoherent rants did you actually read DJ Teh's comments about me as if you had done you would have seen what my rants were about

Loosehead. 66% to44% in favour of council workers on the Echo poll. Any reason for this? I thought the entire country was Tory.

It just shows how many loony lefties read the echo as even on Monday when talking to perfect strangers it was only one in three that agreed with the strike,Honestly how many people take part in those polls? it's not a true indication of the publics feeling even if they were against the strike I wouldn't take much out of the polls ( last election should have been a tory landslide according to the polls?) anyway how on earth do you get 66% & 44%? that comes to 110% of the votes thats 10% more votes than people isn't it?Surely it should have read 56% & 44%?lot closer then isn't it ?If you believe in politics talk to your union men get them to settle this in the talks or don't you or the unions care for the citizens of this city?Ant be careful the council don't look into amalgamating services with another council as the job losses would be far greater for the admin & office staff

If i am a Loony Lefty as i care about poorly paid workers doing crucial work then i am must be one.

As for amaglmating with other councils? that is a great idea, it need not mean losing front line staff but would save on top paid fat cats.

Just returned from a parallel universe where all our services were great.

The employees were well paid and the most polite and decent of people, treating all their customers and clients like the friends and neighbours they are.

Everyone pays a fairly judged amount into the pot for their fine services because the wealth of the nation is fairly distributed and no one goes without or suffers from poor pay and working conditions, so they feel ok about Joe the dustman receiving a decent wage, just as they do themselves.

No one has a reason to begrudge another a decent way of life, the elderly are respected, the young cherished and nurtured and the sick and weak are looked after and encouraged to feel a part of everyday life as this helps far more than closing society off to them.

We have leaders and businessmen just as you do here but they take their social responsibility very seriously and do not try and gather huge personal fortunes for themselves at the expense of others but would rather create as many jobs as they can, realising that for everyone to feel a part, everyone has to take part and can excel at the job they do, and no matter how menial it may be, they are respected by all others for what they do.

Schools are run as centres of excellence and each pupils strengths are identified early on so they can be encouraged to excel at something, thus feeling good about themselves and more able to progress with confidence onto better things later.

The businessman and leaders are more than willing to pay a bigger share towards the tax take because it's just the right thing to do.

I thought that people here on Earth were like that too! Or at least they aspired to be like that?

Certainly, most I talk too seem to be quite nice, reasonable people who would do anything to help someone else and surely wouldn't begrudge another the decent services they have paid for, or visa versa, a decent wage and stable conditions for those who provide those services?

However, reading some of what is said on here, it seems I am wrong and the well off leaders seem to be picking on the ordinary worker, who is upset about it and so won't empty the bins or provide other services which upsets other taxpayers who then begrudge the workers a fair wage, apparently siding with the leaders who seem to be the only ones not losing anything.

There seems to be a lack of true and decent leadership, from the politicians and the businessmen alike, who appear to be more worried about themselves and their own pockets.

The ordinary people are entrenched in bitter bickering among themselves and no one is very happy.

Where is the leader who can rise all above this sadness and pull us all together?

Who can provide us with the inspiration to remember how good we can be to and for each other?

When will be led by example?

I am more than a little worried that the people of this planet are hurting themselves out of a spite for each other that they don't actually like to see in themselves.

Stop it!

You are not really enjoying it.

Can't we try working together for each other?

No one seems to be getting much of a deal from all this bickering and as our elected and community leaders seem incapable of coming to an agreement, why don't we all agree to a little chat amongst ourselves?

Maybe we could develop an understanding of each other, come up with some fresh ideas and then, as one, take those ideas to our leaders.

I feel we are rudderless at the moment, drifting without any sort of plan capable of uniting us, as we need to be if we are going to make it through the hard times to come.

Sorry, I was just daydreaming!

sarfhamton wrote:
I get paid 12p a mile but i get a subsidised lease car. thats the best way, i dont worry about repairs or MOTs and my employer (NHS) save cash as well.

54p a mile sounds alot but if you are wearing your car out it is not.

Finally someone with a sensible and objective contribution. The difference for Council employees is that they are not provided with a vehicle to deliver the services that require mobility. They are contractually required to provide a vehicle for the job which means that the vehicle has to be reliable and well maintained, not to mention insured for business purposes at further additional cost. On that basis they are provided with a modest allowance to contribute towards the upkeep and wear and tear on the vehicle that the Council work inflicts on the car. The allowance is at a much reduced cost than providing lease cars or taxis and the employees are taxed on it.
Let's not also forget that these employees often have to finance that vehicle on the strength of continuing to receive their allowance, until their contract is breached by their employer who takes it away.
All this is on top of the so called "small pay cut" espoused by our Council chiefs.

54p a mile is a lot. 45p is still a lot.

Whoever put it up to 54p should have been prosecuted.

This lot have been on the gravy train too long. Its time to wake up and smell the coffee.

45p/mile is still more than it costs to run most cars