Workers take cuts protest to streets (From Daily Echo)

and mean while in the real world of the Private sector...

Why doesn't someone in Hampshire appoint an independent wages advisor and do a top down review?

Everyone needs to cut their cloth, from senior management to bog cleaners!

I think if there were across the board wage cuts its fairer, anything else is stupidity!

Lets be frank, Itchen Bridge Toll operators, Traffic Wardens and council tax clerks are ALL minimum wage jobs, they should ALL be dropped to that as they're ALL unskilled labour.

ALL the so called senior management, Chief Exec down should all have their salaries re-graded downwards and publically so.

I do support some of the protesters, bin men and carers for instance as they perform vital public services... I've always considered them underpaid....

Just sort it out!!!!

These strikes are starting to affect me now so all sympathy out of the window i'm afraid. When will the library be open again as my internet is broken. As for having to find childcare on Thursday whilst the teachers are on a pub crawl shame on you, if you wanted higher wages should have done something else. Every man and his dog knows that teachers wages are mediocre at best so when you applied what were you expecting? As for the binmen good luck with the month old nappies in the green bin.

Roger Khan wrote:
These strikes are starting to affect me now so all sympathy out of the window i'm afraid. When will the library be open again as my internet is broken. As for having to find childcare on Thursday whilst the teachers are on a pub crawl shame on you, if you wanted higher wages should have done something else. Every man and his dog knows that teachers wages are mediocre at best so when you applied what were you expecting? As for the binmen good luck with the month old nappies in the green bin.

Many schools have an Inset Day Friday as well, why not strike then...

From this web-site
• 50-60 street cleaners on strike from tomorrow
• 40 parking staff on strike from tomorrow
• 110 refuse collectors on strike from tomorrow
• 30 Itchen Bridge staff on strike from tomorrow
• 80 librarians on strike from tomorrow
• 20 children’s workers on strike from Thursday
• Up to 2,400 Unison and Unite members continuing industrial action

and only 150 or so show up? Poor show really...

150?

Imagine if it had rained.

owen_thesaints wrote:

Roger Khan wrote:
These strikes are starting to affect me now so all sympathy out of the window i'm afraid. When will the library be open again as my internet is broken. As for having to find childcare on Thursday whilst the teachers are on a pub crawl shame on you, if you wanted higher wages should have done something else. Every man and his dog knows that teachers wages are mediocre at best so when you applied what were you expecting? As for the binmen good luck with the month old nappies in the green bin.

Many schools have an Inset Day Friday as well, why not strike then...

From this web-site
• 50-60 street cleaners on strike from tomorrow
• 40 parking staff on strike from tomorrow
• 110 refuse collectors on strike from tomorrow
• 30 Itchen Bridge staff on strike from tomorrow
• 80 librarians on strike from tomorrow
• 20 children’s workers on strike from Thursday
• Up to 2,400 Unison and Unite members continuing industrial action

and only 150 or so show up? Poor show really...

I think the key word that you quote.... and that may go part of the way to answering the question.
.
TOMORROW !!
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That means that most were not off on Saturday

From the picture we can see that protesters came in from Portsmouth, Winchester, Andover, and we know from Southampton, and yet all they could manage was 150?

I'm sure Southy will be here later to tell us the figure was closer to 15,000.

Lone Ranger. wrote:

owen_thesaints wrote:

Roger Khan wrote: These strikes are starting to affect me now so all sympathy out of the window i'm afraid. When will the library be open again as my internet is broken. As for having to find childcare on Thursday whilst the teachers are on a pub crawl shame on you, if you wanted higher wages should have done something else. Every man and his dog knows that teachers wages are mediocre at best so when you applied what were you expecting? As for the binmen good luck with the month old nappies in the green bin.

Many schools have an Inset Day Friday as well, why not strike then... From this web-site • 50-60 street cleaners on strike from tomorrow • 40 parking staff on strike from tomorrow • 110 refuse collectors on strike from tomorrow • 30 Itchen Bridge staff on strike from tomorrow • 80 librarians on strike from tomorrow • 20 children’s workers on strike from Thursday • Up to 2,400 Unison and Unite members continuing industrial action and only 150 or so show up? Poor show really...

I think the key word that you quote.... and that may go part of the way to answering the question. . TOMORROW !! . That means that most were not off on Saturday

So the majority were working Saturday....really? You keep believing that and everything will turn out lovely!

MBHants wrote:
From the picture we can see that protesters came in from Portsmouth, Winchester, Andover, and we know from Southampton, and yet all they could manage was 150?

I'm sure Southy will be here later to tell us the figure was closer to 15,000.

If we look at the picture it looks like an OAP parade so that shows you where they are in as far as progressive thinking.

The pedestrians look rather uninterested.

Pompey flag in the middle... when have that lot ever worked anyway.

150 from 4 different areas.

yt wrote:
Why doesn't someone in Hampshire appoint an independent wages advisor and do a top down review?

Everyone needs to cut their cloth, from senior management to bog cleaners!

I think if there were across the board wage cuts its fairer, anything else is stupidity!

Lets be frank, Itchen Bridge Toll operators, Traffic Wardens and council tax clerks are ALL minimum wage jobs, they should ALL be dropped to that as they're ALL unskilled labour.

ALL the so called senior management, Chief Exec down should all have their salaries re-graded downwards and publically so.

I do support some of the protesters, bin men and carers for instance as they perform vital public services... I've always considered them underpaid....

Just sort it out!!!!

All for that....minimum wage = more Tax Credit Claims saving nothing and costing more to administer.

It won't come from the council's cut but then as the strain on the national pot increases, so it follow that the Government pass on the savings it will need to make to the council's by reducing contributions to Local Authority budgets still further, resulting in even more council cuts and even more pain for all.

Quite apart from the fact that it seems to have escaped many peoples notice that inflation is spiralling out of control and far from needing less, most actually need more money especially as the credit boom that falsely kept the economy afloat long after it would have naturally gone bust is now no more.

However, I agree and some are being paid way over the top for what they do and they are not that skilled either.

If they were, we would not be where we are!

Suffered Gastic 'flu last week, Horrible, painful, debilitating. Nothing to do with the piles of rotting rubbish outside my flat then? I thought SCC were going to start clearing because of H & S? As the bins (from 25 flats) are now covered in open, infested black bags, presumably the bin men won't empty them, because they can't get to them. And what do they mean, they will strike from Tuesday? when they have been on strrike for 5 weeks? Sorry to go on, but have now lost all sympathy with the strikers.

There is no rotting rubbish outside my flat!

You have the power to think and do for yourself and others.

If you do...you may then realise what a good job the dustmen do for us all.

Frankly, if you have failed to realise that already..you obviously don't take time to consider things at all, hence the knee jerk reaction and the rubbish outside your flat.

It's better to have your bin collected on a regular basis isn't it?

And surely, in a decent society you would hope that those who do the job and their families get fair reward and the opportunity to live a reasonable life?

After all, I know of some bankers who think it is fair enough that they remain well rewarded beyond the results they have achieved for us when they almost bankrupted the world....which will happen in due course in any event!

Roger Khan wrote:
These strikes are starting to affect me now so all sympathy out of the window i'm afraid. When will the library be open again as my internet is broken. As for having to find childcare on Thursday whilst the teachers are on a pub crawl shame on you, if you wanted higher wages should have done something else. Every man and his dog knows that teachers wages are mediocre at best so when you applied what were you expecting? As for the binmen good luck with the month old nappies in the green bin.

NIMBY

TheJeepster said:
"...get fair reward..."
.
That's the crux of the issue, people on both sides of the argument can't agree on what constitutes "fair" in the current economic climate.
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In an employers market, unskilled jobs can't really be tied to how important a job is perceived to be, as staff for these roles can easily be replaced by almost anyone.
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Basically the job of refuse collection is vital, but the currently employed binmen are not vital, in themselves, to that job. They don't have domain specific knowledge which has been learned as a trade over the years.
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If it gets to July 11th and no resolution has been found, leading to large numbers of sackings, then I suspect the council will have more applicants for the new roles than there are places.

Yes, I know that the private sector is facing its own difficulties and that I could have earnt a (slightly) higher salary if I had not opted to work for the public sector.

However, I chose people above profits, and that is the main reason staff in the private sector are often denied fair salaries and employee rights.

Sadly, there are too many public sector managers who think they are working for private companies these days!

As for the other complainants here, I have little sympathy with you and continue to fully support the strikers (even though I am a non-strikers myself through personal choice).


1. If your rubbish has piled up, why don't you dispose of it yourself or, taking it a step further, why do you produce so much?

2. If you develop a gastric illness, is that really due to uncollected rubbish? What about your duty to maintain personal hygiene, such as washing your hands and keeping outside areas as clean as possible?

3. If you are annoyed that schools are closed on Thursday, tough! Would you like to work with groups of 20/30 often moron like creatures who have little respect for anyone least of all teachers, and then be forced to take a much lower pension at the end of your career?

Everyone is so selfish these days and as soon a their comfortable lifestyle is affected by the plight of many underpaid, used and abused public service workers, the ME ME ME fraternity start throwing their toys out of the pram.

Our parents and grandparents must be so angry at the selfishness that has infiltrated society. We need to pull together and oppose those who are continuing to show so much injustice to our public sector workers.

Yes, PUBLIC sector workers are paid for out of the Council Taxes that is ultimately paid by you and me. But how much of these taxes are spent on actual front line delivery? Very little, and that is why the current wave of strikes is justified.

Back in the 1940s when the bombs were being dropped on Southampton, people from all social backgrounds pulled together, but that no longer happens. Ironically, people had more to lose then, but would always go out of their way to help others.

We will probably never regain true community spirit, where everyone looks out for themselves AND each other. Then again, perhaps that might happen if the bombs were being dropped on Southampton instead of Tripoli.

But's that's another story for another day ...

MBHants wrote:
TheJeepster said:
"...get fair reward..."
.
That's the crux of the issue, people on both sides of the argument can't agree on what constitutes "fair" in the current economic climate.
.
In an employers market, unskilled jobs can't really be tied to how important a job is perceived to be, as staff for these roles can easily be replaced by almost anyone.
.
Basically the job of refuse collection is vital, but the currently employed binmen are not vital, in themselves, to that job. They don't have domain specific knowledge which has been learned as a trade over the years.
.
If it gets to July 11th and no resolution has been found, leading to large numbers of sackings, then I suspect the council will have more applicants for the new roles than there are places.

The point is...in many cases, in an economy where inflation is out of control, cutting wages will not help a consumer based economic in the long run, which is precisely what the government itself recognises is needed.

The bill for wage cuts will be passed on to the national budget in the form of other benefits that the newly low paid will then be able to claim more of.

In a years time, when National spending is not as controlled as it should be, so further cuts to Local Authority budgets will be made and the whole process starts again.

Where will this leave a recovery in the wider economy Private Sector included?

If you want to keep it local when the fact is this situation needs to be seen in the wider context of the national economy...then consider this..in some areas the public sector is just about the only employer, thus only cash generator for the local economy.

You cannot surely be suggesting creating economic wastelands for policies that ultimately, cannot and will not work?

As I have previously stated, whilst I understand the strikes and the reasons for them and will always support those who fight to keep what they have on the basis that this is exactly how all of us got decent working conditions in the first place, I do not believe in this time, with economic factors as they are, that in the long term and looking at the bigger picture that it will make any difference at all, any more than cuts will.

I believe that peoples failure to get their head around just how big and bad the situation really is, is actually what ids hampering recovery from that situation.

True, you can't spend what you don't have but then you can't spend if you don't have either and as it seems spending our way out of this mess is exactly what the private sector needs, how will cuts help, when they affect so much more in the wider economy than just the pay and conditions of the workforce?

Quite apart from anything else, I think, in our very expensive economy, the dustmen amongst others deserve what they are paid and some of those further up the pay scales both public and private should really hang their heads in shame, when those with comparatively little are taking the brunt for the failures of those with more than plenty.

As for whose job is vital and whose is not...lets see how things pan out because it is no good having "domain specific knowledge" in anything if the domains you operate in cease to exist or the number of jobs fall short of those qualified to do them.

I mean, after all, we don't have a glut of over qualified graduates unable to find work at the moment do we?

Or do we and doesn't that situation actually mean you are in fact worth less than you may imagine you are?

Never criticise a man until you walk mile in his shoes.

That saying I feel is more relevant now than ever before and some who smugly think they have the answers without considering their own situation and what they themselves are really worth should consider things a bit more carefully before denigrating their fellow man.

Not too worry though, your turn in the totting up process will come, it has too and if government policy remains as it is, it will do.

eurogordi wrote:
Yes, I know that the private sector is facing its own difficulties and that I could have earnt a (slightly) higher salary if I had not opted to work for the public sector.

However, I chose people above profits, and that is the main reason staff in the private sector are often denied fair salaries and employee rights.

Sadly, there are too many public sector managers who think they are working for private companies these days!

As for the other complainants here, I have little sympathy with you and continue to fully support the strikers (even though I am a non-strikers myself through personal choice).


1. If your rubbish has piled up, why don't you dispose of it yourself or, taking it a step further, why do you produce so much?

2. If you develop a gastric illness, is that really due to uncollected rubbish? What about your duty to maintain personal hygiene, such as washing your hands and keeping outside areas as clean as possible?

3. If you are annoyed that schools are closed on Thursday, tough! Would you like to work with groups of 20/30 often moron like creatures who have little respect for anyone least of all teachers, and then be forced to take a much lower pension at the end of your career?

Everyone is so selfish these days and as soon a their comfortable lifestyle is affected by the plight of many underpaid, used and abused public service workers, the ME ME ME fraternity start throwing their toys out of the pram.

Our parents and grandparents must be so angry at the selfishness that has infiltrated society. We need to pull together and oppose those who are continuing to show so much injustice to our public sector workers.

Yes, PUBLIC sector workers are paid for out of the Council Taxes that is ultimately paid by you and me. But how much of these taxes are spent on actual front line delivery? Very little, and that is why the current wave of strikes is justified.

Back in the 1940s when the bombs were being dropped on Southampton, people from all social backgrounds pulled together, but that no longer happens. Ironically, people had more to lose then, but would always go out of their way to help others.

We will probably never regain true community spirit, where everyone looks out for themselves AND each other. Then again, perhaps that might happen if the bombs were being dropped on Southampton instead of Tripoli.

But's that's another story for another day ...

So, let's say you're offered one of these jobs in the private sector for £25k a year & a public sector for £20k a year (random figures I made up so not getting into wage arguments with anyone).

Are you seriously saying you would choose the £20k job for 'the people'?

Pull the other one mate.

Ok cat amongst the pigeons time... Where in the contract of these workers does it say.. YOU CAN ONLY WORK FOR SCC??? We ALL choose our career, we all choose who and where we work. So if your current employer is not making you happy find a new job or shut up. I pay council tax and therefore pay for a service, and I will not remove my rubbish, why should I UNLESS SCC are going to refund me what I would have been paying for my refuse collection. They could also use the money I pay for child services, for the children I don't have, there are enough issues with where money is going we don't need this kind of behaviour by fellow southerners.

Ok cat amongst the pigeons time... Where in the contract of these workers does it say.. YOU CAN ONLY WORK FOR SCC??? We ALL choose our career, we all choose who and where we work. So if your current employer is not making you happy find a new job or shut up. I pay council tax and therefore pay for a service, and I will not remove my rubbish, why should I UNLESS SCC are going to refund me what I would have been paying for my refuse collection. They could also use the money I pay for child services, for the children I don't have, there are enough issues with where money is going we don't need this kind of behaviour by fellow southerners.

Actually, Shoong, I did exactly that.

I live and work locally, and I have a job that I love. I don't have the high cost of commuting and I seem to be less stressed than many of my friends who work in the private sector.

I also have the satisfaction of being appreciated by my clients, if not my actual employers.

There is more to life than money, but those who have the money are often (not always) the ones who start complaining when life becomes more of an effort for them - like disposing of their own rubbish etc.

Eurogordie - I find your comment 2) very offensive indeed. How dare you. Perhaps you should come down to Old Northam Road yourself and see the conditions we are experiencing. Several of my neighbours are feeling unwell with tummy and other upsets through passsing through, an breathing in, the stench of rotten food and used nappies etc.,. Are you saying we are all poor in the personal hygiene department. Come down here and say that to us, and we'll through you on the rubbish tips, with the rest of the rubbish!!!

Hi Jeepster, I'll try and address a few specific points from your post - although I kind of agree with most of your premises, just not the conclusions :-)
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"The bill for wage cuts will be passed on to the national budget in the form of other benefits that the newly low paid will then be able to claim more of."
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But many of the benefits they'll be able to claim should be cut. The state should not be providing enough for cigarettes or drink or TVs. The state should only be there to provide the bare minimum needed to have a healthy life. If you want luxuries or more, then you work more.
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"in some areas the public sector is just about the only employer, thus only cash generator for the local economy."
.
But that's not a generator within an economy, that's a closed system, where any external spending will be leaking from the local ecosystem!
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"I believe that peoples failure to get their head around just how big and bad the situation really is, is actually what ids hampering recovery from that situation."
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100% agree with you on this.
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"...if the domains you operate in cease to exist..."
Then you simply need to learn to adapt. The stubbornness of Unions to face reality and that changes are needed is what has caused so many strikes and clashes over the years.
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"Never criticise a man until you walk mile in his shoes."
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I worked 6 weeks as a binman one summer while a student. Several miles a day, although I did use my own shoes :-)

Wizzel posted Quote:- .
.
"I pay council tax and therefore pay for a service, and I will not remove my rubbish, why should I UNLESS SCC are going to refund me what I would have been paying for my refuse collection.
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I think that i read that the Council are not responsible for the non-collection.
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In any case they also quote 18p per for your refuse collection.
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So take it down yourself.
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Then you can really see what good value the bin men really are.

Touch a nerve did he? Aww bless.

What he had said is true, and I support him.

Fair enough, maybe the rotton rubbish is causing illness. How about you and the rest of the residents stop moaning get off your backside and clean up your own rubbish?

Put it this way, I'm off down the tip this weekend to empty our wheely bins as they are reaching brimming point and I don't fancy having that lurking, some of the bins are smelling already in our road.

Northam Lady wrote:
Eurogordie - I find your comment 2) very offensive indeed. How dare you. Perhaps you should come down to Old Northam Road yourself and see the conditions we are experiencing. Several of my neighbours are feeling unwell with tummy and other upsets through passsing through, an breathing in, the stench of rotten food and used nappies etc.,. Are you saying we are all poor in the personal hygiene department. Come down here and say that to us, and we'll through you on the rubbish tips, with the rest of the rubbish!!!

Touch a nerve did he? Aww bless.

What he had said is true, and I support him.

Fair enough, maybe the rotton rubbish is causing illness. How about you and the rest of the residents stop moaning get off your backside and clean up your own rubbish?

Put it this way, I'm off down the tip this weekend to empty our wheely bins as they are reaching brimming point and I don't fancy having that lurking, some of the bins are smelling already in our road.

eurogordi wrote:
Yes, I know that the private sector is facing its own difficulties and that I could have earnt a (slightly) higher salary if I had not opted to work for the public sector.

However, I chose people above profits, and that is the main reason staff in the private sector are often denied fair salaries and employee rights.

Sadly, there are too many public sector managers who think they are working for private companies these days!

As for the other complainants here, I have little sympathy with you and continue to fully support the strikers (even though I am a non-strikers myself through personal choice).


1. If your rubbish has piled up, why don't you dispose of it yourself or, taking it a step further, why do you produce so much?

2. If you develop a gastric illness, is that really due to uncollected rubbish? What about your duty to maintain personal hygiene, such as washing your hands and keeping outside areas as clean as possible?

3. If you are annoyed that schools are closed on Thursday, tough! Would you like to work with groups of 20/30 often moron like creatures who have little respect for anyone least of all teachers, and then be forced to take a much lower pension at the end of your career?

Everyone is so selfish these days and as soon a their comfortable lifestyle is affected by the plight of many underpaid, used and abused public service workers, the ME ME ME fraternity start throwing their toys out of the pram.

Our parents and grandparents must be so angry at the selfishness that has infiltrated society. We need to pull together and oppose those who are continuing to show so much injustice to our public sector workers.

Yes, PUBLIC sector workers are paid for out of the Council Taxes that is ultimately paid by you and me. But how much of these taxes are spent on actual front line delivery? Very little, and that is why the current wave of strikes is justified.

Back in the 1940s when the bombs were being dropped on Southampton, people from all social backgrounds pulled together, but that no longer happens. Ironically, people had more to lose then, but would always go out of their way to help others.

We will probably never regain true community spirit, where everyone looks out for themselves AND each other. Then again, perhaps that might happen if the bombs were being dropped on Southampton instead of Tripoli.

But's that's another story for another day ...

Your points are so invalid.
1) no I will not dispose of my own rubbish unless i get a refund on my tax or my butler decides its too much.
2) Just makes you look silly mush
3) Everyone knows before they become a teacher that its bratt related
The rest of your post didnt bother to read coz ur from totton
p.s. whos going to look after the 6 kids on Thursday sounds expensive can you do it coz u chose people of money.

Sorry Eurogordie- that should have read "Throw" you on the rubbish - but I'm sure you got the message anyway...

eurogordi wrote:
Actually, Shoong, I did exactly that.

I live and work locally, and I have a job that I love. I don't have the high cost of commuting and I seem to be less stressed than many of my friends who work in the private sector.

I also have the satisfaction of being appreciated by my clients, if not my actual employers.

There is more to life than money, but those who have the money are often (not always) the ones who start complaining when life becomes more of an effort for them - like disposing of their own rubbish etc.

Then you are a prize mug.

Northam Lady wrote:
Eurogordie - I find your comment 2) very offensive indeed. How dare you. Perhaps you should come down to Old Northam Road yourself and see the conditions we are experiencing. Several of my neighbours are feeling unwell with tummy and other upsets through passsing through, an breathing in, the stench of rotten food and used nappies etc.,. Are you saying we are all poor in the personal hygiene department. Come down here and say that to us, and we'll through you on the rubbish tips, with the rest of the rubbish!!!

I'll bet if he was thrown on the rubbish tip the only thing to be collected by the locals would be his wallet.

Northam Lady, it was not my intention to offend you, but part of your response also adds to the problem. "Used Nappies". Cheap and convenient, and probably one of the most dangerous of all items that is buried in landfill sites or incinerated into the air that we breath.

This is a totally different subject, but if we all changed our living habits and relied less on convenience, we might all feel better for it (including refuse collectors who have to collect bags of human waste!).

Shoong wrote:

eurogordi wrote:
Actually, Shoong, I did exactly that.

I live and work locally, and I have a job that I love. I don't have the high cost of commuting and I seem to be less stressed than many of my friends who work in the private sector.

I also have the satisfaction of being appreciated by my clients, if not my actual employers.

There is more to life than money, but those who have the money are often (not always) the ones who start complaining when life becomes more of an effort for them - like disposing of their own rubbish etc.

Then you are a prize mug.

No Shoong - he's not a mug, eurogordi is just confusing choosing "people over profits" with choosing "convenience, no commute, a less stressful job and people over profits".

MBHants wrote:

Shoong wrote:

eurogordi wrote:
Actually, Shoong, I did exactly that.

I live and work locally, and I have a job that I love. I don't have the high cost of commuting and I seem to be less stressed than many of my friends who work in the private sector.

I also have the satisfaction of being appreciated by my clients, if not my actual employers.

There is more to life than money, but those who have the money are often (not always) the ones who start complaining when life becomes more of an effort for them - like disposing of their own rubbish etc.

Then you are a prize mug.

No Shoong - he's not a mug, eurogordi is just confusing choosing "people over profits" with choosing "convenience, no commute, a less stressful job and people over profits".

Ok, not a mug then.

A 'bulb'.

Shoong wrote:

MBHants wrote:

Shoong wrote:

eurogordi wrote:
Actually, Shoong, I did exactly that.

I live and work locally, and I have a job that I love. I don't have the high cost of commuting and I seem to be less stressed than many of my friends who work in the private sector.

I also have the satisfaction of being appreciated by my clients, if not my actual employers.

There is more to life than money, but those who have the money are often (not always) the ones who start complaining when life becomes more of an effort for them - like disposing of their own rubbish etc.

Then you are a prize mug.

No Shoong - he's not a mug, eurogordi is just confusing choosing "people over profits" with choosing "convenience, no commute, a less stressful job and people over profits".

Ok, not a mug then.

A 'bulb'.

That's a new one. Can I be a plunger please?

DJ -Eugordi - Unfortunately, I'm not wealthy enough to own a car. And I doubt if I could get 3 tonnes of rubbish into the back of it. Perhaps a more sensible suggestion would warrant some consideration. Lots of NIMBY's on this thread, aren't there?
Roger Khan - someone with something intelligent to say at last. Now I must go and scrub my hands with disinfectant, in case anyone else wants to use my keyboard - OH, can't do that, live on my own, private rented apartment, no benefits, no car, retired, paid taxes and insurance for some 45 years, reading ignorant posts from someone who obviously doesn't remember a) miners' strikes, b) 70's winter of discontent. Been there, got the T-shirt. And you think things have improved. Please be careful what you wish for...

Northam Lady wrote:
DJ -Eugordi - Unfortunately, I'm not wealthy enough to own a car. And I doubt if I could get 3 tonnes of rubbish into the back of it. Perhaps a more sensible suggestion would warrant some consideration. Lots of NIMBY's on this thread, aren't there? Roger Khan - someone with something intelligent to say at last. Now I must go and scrub my hands with disinfectant, in case anyone else wants to use my keyboard - OH, can't do that, live on my own, private rented apartment, no benefits, no car, retired, paid taxes and insurance for some 45 years, reading ignorant posts from someone who obviously doesn't remember a) miners' strikes, b) 70's winter of discontent. Been there, got the T-shirt. And you think things have improved. Please be careful what you wish for...

And be careful what you assume ... I do remember the winter of discontent, the dock strike and the miners' strikes ... I remember those days too well. We haven't gone that far yet, but please don't think that you are the only who lived through those times. You survived, didn't you?

Why don't they show the side of the refusal to work like the bin mountains or the rat's ? why don't the echo take a picture of the social security offices behind holy rood church & show these people what they're doing & where even more of them could be going as this council has put in place a package that the unions should put forward to their members.The ones on the strikes are going to struggle to find employment else where the office workers & the one's in the £30,000-£40,000 wage bracket will have a better chance that's why the bin men & the rest of the ones called out on strike so far should sign the contracts as long as the new terms offered are what they're signing for.these people are being lead to the slaughter by the unions they're the sacrificial lambs please people wake up.What were you doing marching on Armed Forces Day ? couldn't you have done this next week or is the unions going for the big PR stunt?

Is Southy back from the march yet, or is he still collecting his signatures at the back?

Perhaps he accidently tagged on to a couple of shoppers thinking they were the main body of the march and followed them off into the distance...

eurogordi - you should know better then. This thread is going nowhere so I'm off to bed to try and recover from my gastric 'flu - caused by inhaling all the germs/stench from the rotting rubbish, used nappies etc.,. (confirmed by doctor as the likliest cause) If they remain on strike - how many of the people on here are actually suffering from these strikes - their babies in buggies being pushed passed rubbish tips etc - or are you all at work, using your employers' time to post messages? What's the betting, it goes a bit quiet now? And before I get berated, I appreciate many of you are on shift work, retired as I am or "other"..End of work time..Good Evening...

StEmmosfire wrote:
and mean while in the real world of the Private sector...

So the real world is the private sector.?Well its the real world that's brought the country to its knees!

So 150 turned up. Well thats not bad I suppose for Winchester. If we are going to play the numbers game, pro cuts campaigners organised a national demo in London last month. 300 turned up. 150 for little old Winchester is huge by comparison!!

loosehead wrote:
Why don't they show the side of the refusal to work like the bin mountains or the rat's ? why don't the echo take a picture of the social security offices behind holy rood church & show these people what they're doing & where even more of them could be going as this council has put in place a package that the unions should put forward to their members.The ones on the strikes are going to struggle to find employment else where the office workers & the one's in the £30,000-£40,000 wage bracket will have a better chance that's why the bin men & the rest of the ones called out on strike so far should sign the contracts as long as the new terms offered are what they're signing for.these people are being lead to the slaughter by the unions they're the sacrificial lambs please people wake up.What were you doing marching on Armed Forces Day ? couldn't you have done this next week or is the unions going for the big PR stunt?

Latest Unite Newsletter. A bit more realistic than the rubbish and untruths spun on Cllr Smiths website.
.
"Two and a half days of talks between Southampton city council,
Unite and Unison reps and Acas have failed to settle the dispute over
imposed pay cuts for all workers.
As mandated by its respective stewards committees, the unions
repeatedly offered to end all industrial action and to withdraw legal
claims, if the council in turn removed the dismissal notices on
employees due to come into effect on 11 July.
The unions, as part of this offer, undertook to enter into intensive
negotiations to reach a negotiated settlement within the next two
weeks and to consult and ballot members over a four week period.
When Acas had concluded that no agreement would be reached to
negotiate on this basis, council leaders instead pulled out of the hat a
“10 point plan”.
This plan is almost totally based on an off the record and confidential
corridor discussion between Mark Wood (Unite), Mike Tucker
(Unison) and the council leader (cllr Royston Smith) and chief executive (Alistair Neill) at which unions
put across some areas we were prepared to discuss. To use this information in such a way and then to
immediately communicate it directly to staff and the media is a total breach of trust and confidence.
Council managers are now visiting workplaces (particularly in Waste & Recycling and Street Cleansing)
in order to convince workers to accept the latest proposal in a blatant attempt to divide union
members by misinforming and telling untruths. Its is totally untrue to claim all employees under
£22,000 will not suffer a pay cut; all of those under £22,000 who received an increment in April will
have it removed after 11 July and they will not get one next year even though they may be
contractually entitled to it.
To be clear, unions did not reject any offer. Unite and Unison noted the proposal on the basis that they
had no mandate to negotiate whilst dismissal notices were still in place. We also agreed to continuing
dialogue, despite the underhand and deceitful way council negotiators are conducting themselves; the
fact that they have a council press officer at the negotiations, pretty much says it all.
On Friday 24 June Unite and Unison wrote an open letter to Alistair Neill raising real concerns about
their conduct whilst at the same time keeping the door open for further talks."
.
I think the unions are behaving reasonably and it is Cllr Smith and the Tories who are persuing a class war agenda.

Well, once again we have been let down by Royston Smith. Last week he said (via news on Wave 105fm) that ALL bins would be emptied this week (last week). Up to now, 17-10pm on Monday my bin (and all of my estate) has not been emptied. Surrounding roads have been emptied as far as I know so, once again RUBBISH coming out of Smith's mouth. I still support the strikers and will continue to state that the problem lies within the Conservative run Council not the employees. Anyone up for marching on the Civic Centre with a bag of putrid rubbish to be dumped on the steps c/o, Royston Smith??

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Why don't they show the side of the refusal to work like the bin mountains or the rat's ? why don't the echo take a picture of the social security offices behind holy rood church & show these people what they're doing & where even more of them could be going as this council has put in place a package that the unions should put forward to their members.The ones on the strikes are going to struggle to find employment else where the office workers & the one's in the £30,000-£40,000 wage bracket will have a better chance that's why the bin men & the rest of the ones called out on strike so far should sign the contracts as long as the new terms offered are what they're signing for.these people are being lead to the slaughter by the unions they're the sacrificial lambs please people wake up.What were you doing marching on Armed Forces Day ? couldn't you have done this next week or is the unions going for the big PR stunt?

Latest Unite Newsletter. A bit more realistic than the rubbish and untruths spun on Cllr Smiths website.
.
"Two and a half days of talks between Southampton city council,
Unite and Unison reps and Acas have failed to settle the dispute over
imposed pay cuts for all workers.
As mandated by its respective stewards committees, the unions
repeatedly offered to end all industrial action and to withdraw legal
claims, if the council in turn removed the dismissal notices on
employees due to come into effect on 11 July.
The unions, as part of this offer, undertook to enter into intensive
negotiations to reach a negotiated settlement within the next two
weeks and to consult and ballot members over a four week period.
When Acas had concluded that no agreement would be reached to
negotiate on this basis, council leaders instead pulled out of the hat a
“10 point plan”.
This plan is almost totally based on an off the record and confidential
corridor discussion between Mark Wood (Unite), Mike Tucker
(Unison) and the council leader (cllr Royston Smith) and chief executive (Alistair Neill) at which unions
put across some areas we were prepared to discuss. To use this information in such a way and then to
immediately communicate it directly to staff and the media is a total breach of trust and confidence.
Council managers are now visiting workplaces (particularly in Waste & Recycling and Street Cleansing)
in order to convince workers to accept the latest proposal in a blatant attempt to divide union
members by misinforming and telling untruths. Its is totally untrue to claim all employees under
£22,000 will not suffer a pay cut; all of those under £22,000 who received an increment in April will
have it removed after 11 July and they will not get one next year even though they may be
contractually entitled to it.
To be clear, unions did not reject any offer. Unite and Unison noted the proposal on the basis that they
had no mandate to negotiate whilst dismissal notices were still in place. We also agreed to continuing
dialogue, despite the underhand and deceitful way council negotiators are conducting themselves; the
fact that they have a council press officer at the negotiations, pretty much says it all.
On Friday 24 June Unite and Unison wrote an open letter to Alistair Neill raising real concerns about
their conduct whilst at the same time keeping the door open for further talks."
.
I think the unions are behaving reasonably and it is Cllr Smith and the Tories who are persuing a class war agenda.

Well done Ant..... sounds more true to life that the fiction spewed out by Cllr Smith.

OPEN INVITATION - to everyone on this thread/site. Please come down to Old Northam Road tomorrow Tuesday 28 June...and see for yourselves the disgusting Health & Safery hazards in which we are living. Please take photos. I have invitied the Echo. I have invitited SCC - they were meant to have cleared this site as a H & S Hazard this afternoon as in H & S Regulations. They did not...

captain_chaos wrote:
Well, once again we have been let down by Royston Smith. Last week he said (via news on Wave 105fm) that ALL bins would be emptied this week (last week). Up to now, 17-10pm on Monday my bin (and all of my estate) has not been emptied. Surrounding roads have been emptied as far as I know so, once again RUBBISH coming out of Smith's mouth. I still support the strikers and will continue to state that the problem lies within the Conservative run Council not the employees. Anyone up for marching on the Civic Centre with a bag of putrid rubbish to be dumped on the steps c/o, Royston Smith??

Come on people. follow captain_chaos example. Dump your rubbish at the civic c/o Cllr 'Rambo' Smith

I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

captain_chaos wrote:
Well, once again we have been let down by Royston Smith. Last week he said (via news on Wave 105fm) that ALL bins would be emptied this week (last week). Up to now, 17-10pm on Monday my bin (and all of my estate) has not been emptied. Surrounding roads have been emptied as far as I know so, once again RUBBISH coming out of Smith's mouth. I still support the strikers and will continue to state that the problem lies within the Conservative run Council not the employees. Anyone up for marching on the Civic Centre with a bag of putrid rubbish to be dumped on the steps c/o, Royston Smith??

Come on people. follow captain_chaos example. Dump your rubbish at the civic c/o Cllr 'Rambo' Smith

How can we get this going? Is there an outside (of DailyEcho) website we can get this moving on? Any pc techies know what to do? Come on lets do it. Thursday sounds good what with all the other strikers as well. Maybe get in touch with your neighbours and get back on HERE to confirm it all.

IronLady2010 wrote:
I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

So what? Strike action will continue.What on earth makes you think the dispute will be over? We need SCC workers to be IN WORK in order to take more Industrial Action against the Class War being conducted by Cllr Smith!!
.
Please catch up!!

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

So what? Strike action will continue.What on earth makes you think the dispute will be over? We need SCC workers to be IN WORK in order to take more Industrial Action against the Class War being conducted by Cllr Smith!!
.
Please catch up!!

Where did I suggest that strike action would be over? I was simply posting an update?

I have had my say and am just watching.

OKKaay - Please let me know how many People are going to come and visit me in Old Northam Road, to take photo's of the results of the disputes?? I shall be here from 12.00pm with my little camera - either join me, and see what we're putting up with, or Shut Up if it's not in You're Back Yard...

Northam Lady wrote:
OKKaay - Please let me know how many People are going to come and visit me in Old Northam Road, to take photo's of the results of the disputes?? I shall be here from 12.00pm with my little camera - either join me, and see what we're putting up with, or Shut Up if it's not in You're Back Yard...

I totally understand your frustration, but taking photos won't get the workers back to work.

With the greatest of respect, I would not take my camera to a Northam Estate!

I do agree, the Council have let some estates down with the promise of collecting excess rubbish!

We had a collection today, although most our bins were empty, one worker even slammed the bin lid when he saw an empty bin! He didn't look happy and I hardly blame him!

They even collected the excess rubbish from one house which is rented, despite the fact they couldn't be bothered to bag it properly and had hundreds of supermarket bags outside, fair play bin men!

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

So what? Strike action will continue.What on earth makes you think the dispute will be over? We need SCC workers to be IN WORK in order to take more Industrial Action against the Class War being conducted by Cllr Smith!!
.
Please catch up!!

Ant I can't believe that your so blind to the truth.Unite & Unison & ACAS rubbish to negotiate you need to talk & those two unions wouldn't talk until their demands were met with no guarantee that they would be involved in a negotiated settlement knowing the council couldn't accept those terms.Ant when your beloved leader has warned the unions not to take strike action why the hell don't you & your extremist union mates listen or are you so blind you would happily see more & more redundancies? the latest proposal if accepted would have avoided any sackings so no need to withdraw anything as the contracts would have been signed but your to blinkered to see the truth even when it hits you straight in the face open your eyes

loosehead wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

So what? Strike action will continue.What on earth makes you think the dispute will be over? We need SCC workers to be IN WORK in order to take more Industrial Action against the Class War being conducted by Cllr Smith!!
.
Please catch up!!

Ant I can't believe that your so blind to the truth.Unite & Unison & ACAS rubbish to negotiate you need to talk & those two unions wouldn't talk until their demands were met with no guarantee that they would be involved in a negotiated settlement knowing the council couldn't accept those terms.Ant when your beloved leader has warned the unions not to take strike action why the hell don't you & your extremist union mates listen or are you so blind you would happily see more & more redundancies? the latest proposal if accepted would have avoided any sackings so no need to withdraw anything as the contracts would have been signed but your to blinkered to see the truth even when it hits you straight in the face open your eyes

Actually, Royston has said the new proposal would mean some 12-14 redundancies. Just being honest!

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

So what? Strike action will continue.What on earth makes you think the dispute will be over? We need SCC workers to be IN WORK in order to take more Industrial Action against the Class War being conducted by Cllr Smith!!
.
Please catch up!!

Ant I can't believe that your so blind to the truth.Unite & Unison & ACAS rubbish to negotiate you need to talk & those two unions wouldn't talk until their demands were met with no guarantee that they would be involved in a negotiated settlement knowing the council couldn't accept those terms.Ant when your beloved leader has warned the unions not to take strike action why the hell don't you & your extremist union mates listen or are you so blind you would happily see more & more redundancies? the latest proposal if accepted would have avoided any sackings so no need to withdraw anything as the contracts would have been signed but your to blinkered to see the truth even when it hits you straight in the face open your eyes

Actually, Royston has said the new proposal would mean some 12-14 redundancies. Just being honest!

IronLady this is a lot less than the 400 if this doesn't happen or the extra 100 if the unions take this to court.If the unions would only let their members decide this could all be finished with but the unions are acting like the membership doesn't know what's good for themselves & only the unions know what's good for them.I can't understand why someone who is suppose to be super intelligent like Ant Smoking can't see the truth is he that closed minded ?

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

So what? Strike action will continue.What on earth makes you think the dispute will be over? We need SCC workers to be IN WORK in order to take more Industrial Action against the Class War being conducted by Cllr Smith!!
.
Please catch up!!

Ant I can't believe that your so blind to the truth.Unite & Unison & ACAS rubbish to negotiate you need to talk & those two unions wouldn't talk until their demands were met with no guarantee that they would be involved in a negotiated settlement knowing the council couldn't accept those terms.Ant when your beloved leader has warned the unions not to take strike action why the hell don't you & your extremist union mates listen or are you so blind you would happily see more & more redundancies? the latest proposal if accepted would have avoided any sackings so no need to withdraw anything as the contracts would have been signed but your to blinkered to see the truth even when it hits you straight in the face open your eyes

Actually, Royston has said the new proposal would mean some 12-14 redundancies. Just being honest!

IronLady this is a lot less than the 400 if this doesn't happen or the extra 100 if the unions take this to court.If the unions would only let their members decide this could all be finished with but the unions are acting like the membership doesn't know what's good for themselves & only the unions know what's good for them.I can't understand why someone who is suppose to be super intelligent like Ant Smoking can't see the truth is he that closed minded ?

No need to tell me! I think alot of the members are realising this also!

But hey ho, all I want is our City returned back to a clean safe area before we go broke!

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I'm simply copy & Pasting!

Royston_Smith Royston Smith
Over 65% of Southampton City Council employees have voluntarily signed to accept new terms and conditions.
9 hours ago

So what? Strike action will continue.What on earth makes you think the dispute will be over? We need SCC workers to be IN WORK in order to take more Industrial Action against the Class War being conducted by Cllr Smith!!
.
Please catch up!!

Ant I can't believe that your so blind to the truth.Unite & Unison & ACAS rubbish to negotiate you need to talk & those two unions wouldn't talk until their demands were met with no guarantee that they would be involved in a negotiated settlement knowing the council couldn't accept those terms.Ant when your beloved leader has warned the unions not to take strike action why the hell don't you & your extremist union mates listen or are you so blind you would happily see more & more redundancies? the latest proposal if accepted would have avoided any sackings so no need to withdraw anything as the contracts would have been signed but your to blinkered to see the truth even when it hits you straight in the face open your eyes

Actually, Royston has said the new proposal would mean some 12-14 redundancies. Just being honest!

IronLady this is a lot less than the 400 if this doesn't happen or the extra 100 if the unions take this to court.If the unions would only let their members decide this could all be finished with but the unions are acting like the membership doesn't know what's good for themselves & only the unions know what's good for them.I can't understand why someone who is suppose to be super intelligent like Ant Smoking can't see the truth is he that closed minded ?

No need to tell me! I think alot of the members are realising this also!

But hey ho, all I want is our City returned back to a clean safe area before we go broke!

Hope it's not to hot for you & have a good night's sleep as tomorrow will more than likely bring another barrage of abuse or more union propaganda Good Night

loosehead- I have no idea where the Northam Estate is either - I pay over the odds as a Private Residential Private Tenant -in Old Northam Road - but that proposal doesn't count - nothing. I'm sorry but no doubt some on here will accuse me of all sorts, although I am a socialist - let's see....Have spent the last years of my Retirement as aSocialist and Volunteer in SHS...

Northam Lady wrote:
loosehead- I have no idea where the Northam Estate is either - I pay over the odds as a Private Residential Private Tenant -in Old Northam Road - but that proposal doesn't count - nothing. I'm sorry but no doubt some on here will accuse me of all sorts, although I am a socialist - let's see....Have spent the last years of my Retirement as aSocialist and Volunteer in SHS...

Does Old Northam Road Exist?

All I want is for our Rubbish to be collected ............

The good news is that Hampshire beat Sussex.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
The good news is that Hampshire beat Sussex.

In bin collections? Hardly surprising!

Iron Lady - Can't believe you asked if Old Northam Road exists. I've been here for 9 years!! Was part of the ReGeneration Scheme, which hasn't happened yet, but will definitely be happening this year - Promise - when we get rid of the Rubbish/Rats!!!

Where us Southy? Is he still up in Winchester or is he reading Animal Farm again?

skin2000 wrote:
Where us Southy? Is he still up in Winchester or is he reading Animal Farm again?

Southy is out interviewing. Leave him be!

Tomorrow we'll get the real stats of 3% of workers have signed the new contracts etc etc..

Good luck to him though, I'm breaking a sweat at lifting my wine glass, it's mighty warm tonight, now where is that storm they promised? Never mind Southy!

I live in Old Northam Road - nothing to do with Northam Estates...Shall be using my little Camera tomorrow at 12.00pm - to capture the situation Feel free to join me - shall send pics to Echo...and National Press.....

Northam Lady wrote:
I live in Old Northam Road - nothing to do with Northam Estates...Shall be using my little Camera tomorrow at 12.00pm - to capture the situation Feel free to join me - shall send pics to Echo...and National Press.....

The Echo have pictures of worse off areas, check the website. The National press won't be interested, unless you have some juicy gossip on a Council Member or Union Boss!

In the meantime, you'll have to find a way of going to the tip, I'm sure you'll find a way of going to the supermarket to feed yourself?

Iron Lady 2010 - I don't understand why you should be so vitriolic - what have I ever done to upset you?? What do you mean about my going to a Supermarket to feed myself?? Most Odd...Take a Breath, Lady - you're not well...

Northam Lady wrote:
Iron Lady 2010 - I don't understand why you should be so vitriolic - what have I ever done to upset you?? What do you mean about my going to a Supermarket to feed myself?? Most Odd...Take a Breath, Lady - you're not well...

I am not being 'vitriolic' I am simply saying, you find a way of finding the waste you complain about, now how about finding a way of disposing of it whilst the strike is on?

You shouldn't have to I agree, it's only for 2 more weeks then things will gradually get back to normality. Already 65% + of the workforce have accepted the new contracts, give it another week, that will get even higher. By July 11th I would suggest probably 96% would have agreed. But that's purely my guess!

Do you know what? Your all full of c. rap! I have offered to get a protest going against SCC and all you moan about is YOUR rubbish! What about the rest of us eh? Dah, your not worth it. As all you do is spout off on here and hope someone will listen. Armchair moaners. I've had enough of you lot.

MBHants wrote:
Hi Jeepster, I'll try and address a few specific points from your post - although I kind of agree with most of your premises, just not the conclusions :-)
.
"The bill for wage cuts will be passed on to the national budget in the form of other benefits that the newly low paid will then be able to claim more of."
.
But many of the benefits they'll be able to claim should be cut. The state should not be providing enough for cigarettes or drink or TVs. The state should only be there to provide the bare minimum needed to have a healthy life. If you want luxuries or more, then you work more.
.
"in some areas the public sector is just about the only employer, thus only cash generator for the local economy."
.
But that's not a generator within an economy, that's a closed system, where any external spending will be leaking from the local ecosystem!
.
"I believe that peoples failure to get their head around just how big and bad the situation really is, is actually what ids hampering recovery from that situation."
.
100% agree with you on this.
.
"...if the domains you operate in cease to exist..."
Then you simply need to learn to adapt. The stubbornness of Unions to face reality and that changes are needed is what has caused so many strikes and clashes over the years.
.
"Never criticise a man until you walk mile in his shoes."
.
I worked 6 weeks as a binman one summer while a student. Several miles a day, although I did use my own shoes :-)

Not much for me to worry about here.

Gobbledygook and nonsense from someone obviously not inhabiting the real world.

Six weeks as a binman eh?

Gave it a real go then?

As for adapting to circumstances...wher
e does that leave your argument when it comes to your skills and years of experience that you state are the prerequisite to earning a decent living?

Obviously and by your own tongue...if you can adapt that easily, thus discarding "years" of experience, your qualifications and thus "right" to earn a decent wage are brought into question.

Maybe anyone could do your job...I'd certainly think so in this day and age, so maybe you value yourself too highly!

Don't look down on the rest of us too often..it's a long way to fall and those who fight now won't be offering a hand back up.

But then, you will simply adapt and won't need a hand, will you?

Well, for your sake, I truly hope not because to fail when so certain is usually fatal for types like you.

It sounds like you have your own business to me.

I hope you don't rely on too many government contracts because Judgement Day is coming for you and when they have finished with the public sector...where do you think they will be looking next?

Sadly for you, despite your own lofty opinion of yourself, when compared to the rest of us, you are not a member of the upper echelons of society and your turn is coming.

Let the market forces prevail!

yt wrote:
Why doesn't someone in Hampshire appoint an independent wages advisor and do a top down review?

Everyone needs to cut their cloth, from senior management to bog cleaners!

I think if there were across the board wage cuts its fairer, anything else is stupidity!

Lets be frank, Itchen Bridge Toll operators, Traffic Wardens and council tax clerks are ALL minimum wage jobs, they should ALL be dropped to that as they're ALL unskilled labour.

ALL the so called senior management, Chief Exec down should all have their salaries re-graded downwards and publically so.

I do support some of the protesters, bin men and carers for instance as they perform vital public services... I've always considered them underpaid....

Just sort it out!!!!

Well said, apart from the bit about bin men being underpaid.

All the public sector job pay and conditions need substantial cuts, and manual unskilled jobs are no exception.

Not many days now till July 11th, hopefully the militants will dismiss themselves by their own actions and we will get a whole new team of value for money non-union binmen from this date

I cant wait to see how furious the strikers are with their union bosses when they see they have been sacrificed just to try and make a political point that there should be no cuts despite the massive deficit.

The deficit must be repaid, the country has to get on a sustainable footing, as with the rise of China and other new economies things will likely get worse.

We have to have affordable public services, not pampered ones.

And for those soft types who say dont the bin men do wonderful tough dirty jobs, any householder handles the rubbish more closely than any bin man, putting the bags in the bins, and wheeling them all the way to the roadside, whereas the bin man just wheels it a few feet along the pavement to the lift on the back of the wagon...

Doesn't sound like a job that is worth more than minimum wage to me.....

If they cant already see how lucky they are, they dont deserve their jobs.

Northam Lady wrote:
Suffered Gastic 'flu last week, Horrible, painful, debilitating. Nothing to do with the piles of rotting rubbish outside my flat then? I thought SCC were going to start clearing because of H & S? As the bins (from 25 flats) are now covered in open, infested black bags, presumably the bin men won't empty them, because they can't get to them. And what do they mean, they will strike from Tuesday? when they have been on strrike for 5 weeks? Sorry to go on, but have now lost all sympathy with the strikers.

Yes, it's very clear everywhere you go now, that the strikers have lost any limited sympathy they once had, other than from others of the striking " me me me" class

MBHants wrote:
TheJeepster said:
"...get fair reward..."
.
That's the crux of the issue, people on both sides of the argument can't agree on what constitutes "fair" in the current economic climate.
.
In an employers market, unskilled jobs can't really be tied to how important a job is perceived to be, as staff for these roles can easily be replaced by almost anyone.
.
Basically the job of refuse collection is vital, but the currently employed binmen are not vital, in themselves, to that job. They don't have domain specific knowledge which has been learned as a trade over the years.
.
If it gets to July 11th and no resolution has been found, leading to large numbers of sackings, then I suspect the council will have more applicants for the new roles than there are places.

Exactly right! There would be no problem finding new people to do the job for much less than is on the table at the moment. The current workers should get back to work with their tails firmly between their legs, and say thank you for the priviledge of retaining their still pampered overpaid jobs.

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Wizzel posted Quote:- .
.
"I pay council tax and therefore pay for a service, and I will not remove my rubbish, why should I UNLESS SCC are going to refund me what I would have been paying for my refuse collection.
.
I think that i read that the Council are not responsible for the non-collection.
.
In any case they also quote 18p per for your refuse collection.
.
So take it down yourself.
.
Then you can really see what good value the bin men really are.

Well, I agree, I have been taking my rubbish down to the recycling centre once a week. It's really quick and simple to do, and just shows how unncessary bin men are, at least for those of us lucky enough to have cars.

There seem to be a lot of us doing the same, for ourselves, our relatives, and our neighbours, as the household waste bins are chock full of black bags, and are regularly emptied, so it seems residents are learning to do the job themselves. I suspect it is mainly the really old rubbish being left around now in overflowing dustbins, and most people are taking fresh rubbish down to the tip in their cars to prevent further build up.

It's nice to know that many of us residents are doing our bit to break this strike, and standing up for our right to have services delivered by people paid realistic and affordable pay and conditions for the level of skill required.

We all know that unions are never happy, and are always pushing for new deals and increases. Well, no longer, time for the downward push on public sector pay to start.

This can only be the beginning..... there is a big old deficit to cut.

Well done to the councillors. Nice to see them doing their elected duty standing up for the rights of the residents to get value for money services.

No negotiation, the strikers should take the original offer or try and find a job in the private sector paying them anywhere near what they get now for their "skills".

IronLady2010 wrote:

Northam Lady wrote:
Iron Lady 2010 - I don't understand why you should be so vitriolic - what have I ever done to upset you?? What do you mean about my going to a Supermarket to feed myself?? Most Odd...Take a Breath, Lady - you're not well...

I am not being 'vitriolic' I am simply saying, you find a way of finding the waste you complain about, now how about finding a way of disposing of it whilst the strike is on?

You shouldn't have to I agree, it's only for 2 more weeks then things will gradually get back to normality. Already 65% + of the workforce have accepted the new contracts, give it another week, that will get even higher. By July 11th I would suggest probably 96% would have agreed. But that's purely my guess!

Interesting, I hope thats correct.

If so, it suggests that if the legislation is changed to bar public sector strikes if they get less than 50% support would be a good move.

Nice to see there are still so many public spirited public sector workers out there who appreciate that the deficit is huge, and that public sector as it is now is simply unaffordable and must be reformed.

We had a collection recently...... frigging garden waste !!!! Whilst rotting rubbish is stacking up they send a lorry to collect garden waste....

cyber_fug wrote:
We had a collection recently...... frigging garden waste !!!! Whilst rotting rubbish is stacking up they send a lorry to collect garden waste....

Count yourself lucky.

It seems to make no difference whether they are on strike or not. Even in the weeks where they have not been on strike, many areas seem not to have had any collections, of whatever flavour.

Surely if there are no collections even when they are meant to be working, they should all simply get the sack anyway!

The legislation the government should quickly reform is any which gets in the way of councils from employing agency workers or other contractors to fulfil the duties of striking workers.

We dont need or want these militants.

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Why don't they show the side of the refusal to work like the bin mountains or the rat's ? why don't the echo take a picture of the social security offices behind holy rood church & show these people what they're doing & where even more of them could be going as this council has put in place a package that the unions should put forward to their members.The ones on the strikes are going to struggle to find employment else where the office workers & the one's in the £30,000-£40,000 wage bracket will have a better chance that's why the bin men & the rest of the ones called out on strike so far should sign the contracts as long as the new terms offered are what they're signing for.these people are being lead to the slaughter by the unions they're the sacrificial lambs please people wake up.What were you doing marching on Armed Forces Day ? couldn't you have done this next week or is the unions going for the big PR stunt?

Latest Unite Newsletter. A bit more realistic than the rubbish and untruths spun on Cllr Smiths website.
.
"Two and a half days of talks between Southampton city council,
Unite and Unison reps and Acas have failed to settle the dispute over
imposed pay cuts for all workers.
As mandated by its respective stewards committees, the unions
repeatedly offered to end all industrial action and to withdraw legal
claims, if the council in turn removed the dismissal notices on
employees due to come into effect on 11 July.
The unions, as part of this offer, undertook to enter into intensive
negotiations to reach a negotiated settlement within the next two
weeks and to consult and ballot members over a four week period.
When Acas had concluded that no agreement would be reached to
negotiate on this basis, council leaders instead pulled out of the hat a
“10 point plan”.
This plan is almost totally based on an off the record and confidential
corridor discussion between Mark Wood (Unite), Mike Tucker
(Unison) and the council leader (cllr Royston Smith) and chief executive (Alistair Neill) at which unions
put across some areas we were prepared to discuss. To use this information in such a way and then to
immediately communicate it directly to staff and the media is a total breach of trust and confidence.
Council managers are now visiting workplaces (particularly in Waste & Recycling and Street Cleansing)
in order to convince workers to accept the latest proposal in a blatant attempt to divide union
members by misinforming and telling untruths. Its is totally untrue to claim all employees under
£22,000 will not suffer a pay cut; all of those under £22,000 who received an increment in April will
have it removed after 11 July and they will not get one next year even though they may be
contractually entitled to it.
To be clear, unions did not reject any offer. Unite and Unison noted the proposal on the basis that they
had no mandate to negotiate whilst dismissal notices were still in place. We also agreed to continuing
dialogue, despite the underhand and deceitful way council negotiators are conducting themselves; the
fact that they have a council press officer at the negotiations, pretty much says it all.
On Friday 24 June Unite and Unison wrote an open letter to Alistair Neill raising real concerns about
their conduct whilst at the same time keeping the door open for further talks."
.
I think the unions are behaving reasonably and it is Cllr Smith and the Tories who are persuing a class war agenda.

Hilarious, why on earth do those siding with the unions think it is reasonable for the unions to demand the council retract notice of the changes to the contracts.

There is nothing wrong with the council changing the terms and conditions, nothing wrong with the council imposing pay cuts, providing they give proper notice.

It is up to the employees whether they wish to accept it or not, and their only choice is to keep their job or find another.

I cant see why the union sympathisers think striking is any worse than the threat of dismissal.

One is withdrawal of labour, the other is withdrawal of a job.

Sadly the unions have too much protection, and the system is skewed in favour of the strikers.

The strikers can withdraw their labour, but there are hurdles put in the way of the employer bringing in replacements.

No wonder our public sector workers end up overpaid and with too many perks. The system has been too much in their favour for too long, and this must be addressed.

The council seem to have taken the best approach possible considering the options open to them. Given them due notice, suffer the short term strike inconvenience, do not negotiate, and once July 11th comes around, we can all move on with life (hopefully with a few less militants on the payroll)

Guess what, good news!

Only 8, yes 8 working days between now and July 11th....

it's like waiting for Santa :-)


Eight days of strikes left, before the window shuts.
Eight days of strikes left, for workers to sign up....
...and with each passing evening, as night starts drawing in,
there'll be one less day till dismissals, to give us all a grin!

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

cyber_fug wrote: We had a collection recently...... frigging garden waste !!!! Whilst rotting rubbish is stacking up they send a lorry to collect garden waste....

Count yourself lucky. It seems to make no difference whether they are on strike or not. Even in the weeks where they have not been on strike, many areas seem not to have had any collections, of whatever flavour. Surely if there are no collections even when they are meant to be working, they should all simply get the sack anyway!

This is why they are losing support, two periods of them not on strike have passed and not one collection.

owen_thesaints,

It's simple, sack 'em all

If the law doesn't allow that just now...

...change the law.

Oh Jeepster
.
"Gobbledygook and nonsense from someone obviously not inhabiting the real world."
.
Or maybe a different part of the world from you? Hence differing views that can be opposing but both right?
.
"Six weeks as a binman eh?
Gave it a real go then?"
.
Yes - it was a summer holiday job. I'm not saying I dedicated my life the service of the public, just explaining that as far as the work of "refuse collection" I know what the work entails. It wasn't hard then and technology has only made it easier.
.
"As for adapting to circumstances...wher
e does that leave your argument when it comes to your skills and years of experience that you state are the prerequisite to earning a decent living?"
.
Sigh - please try and understand - adapting is not the same as completely changing or retraining. Skills or knowledge that have been built up can almost always be moved laterally to something current. Throughout life you should always be trying to improve yourself and learn new things, not resting on the laurels of what you already know or have done. That does not mean you need to do a 180 every time there is a small change in your circumstances.
.
"It sounds like you have your own business to me."
.
Well done for having a memory from a previous discussion!
.
"I hope you don't rely on too many government contracts because Judgement Day is coming for you and when they have finished with the public sector..."
.
No I don't have any government work, I couldn't deal with the bureaucracy. In a previous job we dealt with a local council (Not SCC) and I had to attend a 2 hour meeting that was held with 7 people to decide who would be involved in a subsequent meeting about the actual project. They felt they needed this meeting so that the right people had "buy in" and nobody would be offended by not being included. That was nearly two man days of time wasted because of peoples sensibilities. That is waste that the public could do without paying for.
.
"Let the market forces prevail!"
.
See we do agree!
.
security word - shot-foot
.
I fear that's just what the Unions have done

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Why don't they show the side of the refusal to work like the bin mountains or the rat's ? why don't the echo take a picture of the social security offices behind holy rood church & show these people what they're doing & where even more of them could be going as this council has put in place a package that the unions should put forward to their members.The ones on the strikes are going to struggle to find employment else where the office workers & the one's in the £30,000-£40,000 wage bracket will have a better chance that's why the bin men & the rest of the ones called out on strike so far should sign the contracts as long as the new terms offered are what they're signing for.these people are being lead to the slaughter by the unions they're the sacrificial lambs please people wake up.What were you doing marching on Armed Forces Day ? couldn't you have done this next week or is the unions going for the big PR stunt?

Latest Unite Newsletter. A bit more realistic than the rubbish and untruths spun on Cllr Smiths website.
.
"Two and a half days of talks between Southampton city council,
Unite and Unison reps and Acas have failed to settle the dispute over
imposed pay cuts for all workers.
As mandated by its respective stewards committees, the unions
repeatedly offered to end all industrial action and to withdraw legal
claims, if the council in turn removed the dismissal notices on
employees due to come into effect on 11 July.
The unions, as part of this offer, undertook to enter into intensive
negotiations to reach a negotiated settlement within the next two
weeks and to consult and ballot members over a four week period.
When Acas had concluded that no agreement would be reached to
negotiate on this basis, council leaders instead pulled out of the hat a
“10 point plan”.
This plan is almost totally based on an off the record and confidential
corridor discussion between Mark Wood (Unite), Mike Tucker
(Unison) and the council leader (cllr Royston Smith) and chief executive (Alistair Neill) at which unions
put across some areas we were prepared to discuss. To use this information in such a way and then to
immediately communicate it directly to staff and the media is a total breach of trust and confidence.
Council managers are now visiting workplaces (particularly in Waste & Recycling and Street Cleansing)
in order to convince workers to accept the latest proposal in a blatant attempt to divide union
members by misinforming and telling untruths. Its is totally untrue to claim all employees under
£22,000 will not suffer a pay cut; all of those under £22,000 who received an increment in April will
have it removed after 11 July and they will not get one next year even though they may be
contractually entitled to it.
To be clear, unions did not reject any offer. Unite and Unison noted the proposal on the basis that they
had no mandate to negotiate whilst dismissal notices were still in place. We also agreed to continuing
dialogue, despite the underhand and deceitful way council negotiators are conducting themselves; the
fact that they have a council press officer at the negotiations, pretty much says it all.
On Friday 24 June Unite and Unison wrote an open letter to Alistair Neill raising real concerns about
their conduct whilst at the same time keeping the door open for further talks."
.
I think the unions are behaving reasonably and it is Cllr Smith and the Tories who are persuing a class war agenda.

Hilarious, why on earth do those siding with the unions think it is reasonable for the unions to demand the council retract notice of the changes to the contracts.

There is nothing wrong with the council changing the terms and conditions, nothing wrong with the council imposing pay cuts, providing they give proper notice.

It is up to the employees whether they wish to accept it or not, and their only choice is to keep their job or find another.

I cant see why the union sympathisers think striking is any worse than the threat of dismissal.

One is withdrawal of labour, the other is withdrawal of a job.

Sadly the unions have too much protection, and the system is skewed in favour of the strikers.

The strikers can withdraw their labour, but there are hurdles put in the way of the employer bringing in replacements.

No wonder our public sector workers end up overpaid and with too many perks. The system has been too much in their favour for too long, and this must be addressed.

The council seem to have taken the best approach possible considering the options open to them. Given them due notice, suffer the short term strike inconvenience, do not negotiate, and once July 11th comes around, we can all move on with life (hopefully with a few less militants on the payroll)

But my learned friend, the Unions are clever. They are telling their members to sign the contracts. It doesnt mean defeat as the action can and will continue after the 11th.
.
So. Come July 12th the action continues!! Also the three mass Employment Tribunal Claims the council have caused which will cost the council millions. So even if the strike action stops there will still be the legal costs.
.
By the way, the Chief Executive earns £200'000 a year. Is he worth it? How do we get rid of him once Smith has been deposed next year?

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Why don't they show the side of the refusal to work like the bin mountains or the rat's ? why don't the echo take a picture of the social security offices behind holy rood church & show these people what they're doing & where even more of them could be going as this council has put in place a package that the unions should put forward to their members.The ones on the strikes are going to struggle to find employment else where the office workers & the one's in the £30,000-£40,000 wage bracket will have a better chance that's why the bin men & the rest of the ones called out on strike so far should sign the contracts as long as the new terms offered are what they're signing for.these people are being lead to the slaughter by the unions they're the sacrificial lambs please people wake up.What were you doing marching on Armed Forces Day ? couldn't you have done this next week or is the unions going for the big PR stunt?

Latest Unite Newsletter. A bit more realistic than the rubbish and untruths spun on Cllr Smiths website.
.
"Two and a half days of talks between Southampton city council,
Unite and Unison reps and Acas have failed to settle the dispute over
imposed pay cuts for all workers.
As mandated by its respective stewards committees, the unions
repeatedly offered to end all industrial action and to withdraw legal
claims, if the council in turn removed the dismissal notices on
employees due to come into effect on 11 July.
The unions, as part of this offer, undertook to enter into intensive
negotiations to reach a negotiated settlement within the next two
weeks and to consult and ballot members over a four week period.
When Acas had concluded that no agreement would be reached to
negotiate on this basis, council leaders instead pulled out of the hat a
“10 point plan”.
This plan is almost totally based on an off the record and confidential
corridor discussion between Mark Wood (Unite), Mike Tucker
(Unison) and the council leader (cllr Royston Smith) and chief executive (Alistair Neill) at which unions
put across some areas we were prepared to discuss. To use this information in such a way and then to
immediately communicate it directly to staff and the media is a total breach of trust and confidence.
Council managers are now visiting workplaces (particularly in Waste & Recycling and Street Cleansing)
in order to convince workers to accept the latest proposal in a blatant attempt to divide union
members by misinforming and telling untruths. Its is totally untrue to claim all employees under
£22,000 will not suffer a pay cut; all of those under £22,000 who received an increment in April will
have it removed after 11 July and they will not get one next year even though they may be
contractually entitled to it.
To be clear, unions did not reject any offer. Unite and Unison noted the proposal on the basis that they
had no mandate to negotiate whilst dismissal notices were still in place. We also agreed to continuing
dialogue, despite the underhand and deceitful way council negotiators are conducting themselves; the
fact that they have a council press officer at the negotiations, pretty much says it all.
On Friday 24 June Unite and Unison wrote an open letter to Alistair Neill raising real concerns about
their conduct whilst at the same time keeping the door open for further talks."
.
I think the unions are behaving reasonably and it is Cllr Smith and the Tories who are persuing a class war agenda.

Hilarious, why on earth do those siding with the unions think it is reasonable for the unions to demand the council retract notice of the changes to the contracts.

There is nothing wrong with the council changing the terms and conditions, nothing wrong with the council imposing pay cuts, providing they give proper notice.

It is up to the employees whether they wish to accept it or not, and their only choice is to keep their job or find another.

I cant see why the union sympathisers think striking is any worse than the threat of dismissal.

One is withdrawal of labour, the other is withdrawal of a job.

Sadly the unions have too much protection, and the system is skewed in favour of the strikers.

The strikers can withdraw their labour, but there are hurdles put in the way of the employer bringing in replacements.

No wonder our public sector workers end up overpaid and with too many perks. The system has been too much in their favour for too long, and this must be addressed.

The council seem to have taken the best approach possible considering the options open to them. Given them due notice, suffer the short term strike inconvenience, do not negotiate, and once July 11th comes around, we can all move on with life (hopefully with a few less militants on the payroll)

But my learned friend, the Unions are clever. They are telling their members to sign the contracts. It doesnt mean defeat as the action can and will continue after the 11th.
.
So. Come July 12th the action continues!! Also the three mass Employment Tribunal Claims the council have caused which will cost the council millions. So even if the strike action stops there will still be the legal costs.
.
By the way, the Chief Executive earns £200'000 a year. Is he worth it? How do we get rid of him once Smith has been deposed next year?

So your happy if hundreds more face redundancy through the unions actions?Your a disgrace to the Labour movement which even though I might not agree with the Labour party I thought that the idea was to keep as many in employment as possible not rub your hands with glee because several hundred workers are going to end up being martyred by the unions did they know they joined a union for it to cost them their jobs?