Southampton City Council to run Sea City Museum after operator pulls out

Daily Echo: How the Sea City Museum will look when finished How the Sea City Museum will look when finished

THE last private firm bidding to run Southampton’s flagship Titanic-themed museum has pulled out.

Council bosses are now planning to manage the £15m Sea City themselves for at least a year.

And as dignitaries yesterday celebrated the highest point of the new building being completed, opposition councillors claimed that there is a £5m hole in the budget to pay for it.

Southampton’s leisure boss last night insisted that there is “no gap” in the funding, but admitted that the authority might have to settle outstanding bills up front, before fundraising efforts bring in the cash.

Cllr John Hannides added that the council running the museum to begin with is in the best interests of taxpayers.

He said that the process to find a private firm to manage Sea City Museum has proved difficult because the council wants any deal to provide better value than managing it inhouse.

Specialists have assessed the costs to the council of running the attraction, which is due to open in time for next April’s centenary of the Titanic disaster, and all private bids have been measured against that.

Cllr Hannides said: “We have said unless you’re able to exceed the performance that’s already estimated if it’s a council operation then it would not be in our interests to put it out to tender. On that basis we’ve been able to exclude some bids, or companies have removed themselves from the process.”

Cllr Hannides said that part of the problem for firms has been that bids are based on pessimistic guesses of visitor numbers to minimise risks.

The council hopes that by successfully running the museum for one or two years it will provide a proven business model that can be offered again to firms, some of which he said remain “very enthusiastic” about taking on the project.

The project is being funded by a £4.9m Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) grant, £5m of council cash and a further £5m from “fundraising”.

As representatives from HLF, the council and builders Kier Southern gathered at yesterday’s topping out ceremony, Labour councillors said that no cash has yet been found from private benefactors or sponsors, leaving “hardpressed council taxpayers”

to pick up the bill.

Cllr Hannides said that a fundraising team has been recruited, but it would be “unfair” to expect immediate results.

He is confident that the money will be raised, but admitted that the council would provide any “cash flow” needed to pay bills in the meantime.

Comments (63)

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9:22am Thu 4 Aug 11

Linesman says...

I predicted that it would be a 'white elephant' and now it looks as if the City Council will be responsible for feeding, housing and attending to its Vet's bills.
I predicted that it would be a 'white elephant' and now it looks as if the City Council will be responsible for feeding, housing and attending to its Vet's bills. Linesman

9:24am Thu 4 Aug 11

BMWDellboy says...

If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so.
If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so. BMWDellboy

9:25am Thu 4 Aug 11

southy says...

I am not surprise at all, the Titanic Museum in Belfast is going to be the one for people to and see if your interested in this ship.
I am not surprise at all, the Titanic Museum in Belfast is going to be the one for people to and see if your interested in this ship. southy

9:29am Thu 4 Aug 11

MGRA says...

when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue. MGRA

9:31am Thu 4 Aug 11

sotonbusdriver says...

I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest.. sotonbusdriver

9:36am Thu 4 Aug 11

MGRA says...

sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
[quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!? MGRA

9:46am Thu 4 Aug 11

SpittingMoreFire says...

BMWDellboy wrote:
If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so.
Says it all. There are no profits in this venture.
[quote][p][bold]BMWDellboy[/bold] wrote: If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so.[/p][/quote]Says it all. There are no profits in this venture. SpittingMoreFire

9:56am Thu 4 Aug 11

BMWDellboy says...

MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
I may be wrong but I believe that most people joining or leaving on a cruise do not spend much time in the home port, arriving and departing on the same day, so can't really see them flocking to see the Titanic Museum.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]I may be wrong but I believe that most people joining or leaving on a cruise do not spend much time in the home port, arriving and departing on the same day, so can't really see them flocking to see the Titanic Museum. BMWDellboy

10:01am Thu 4 Aug 11

SpittingMoreFire says...

MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Spittingfire's quote of note: MGRA says:

it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?

Correct. Very macabre. And rather sick.

I shall be back later to lay into this news some more, but in the meantime why not amuse yourselves by watching the revelations on that other Hannides heritage horror, the spitfire monument "secret seventh" winning competition design, investigated by the BBC:

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=NbJOufYMd
Lc
.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Spittingfire's quote of note: MGRA says: [quote]it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/quote] Correct. Very macabre. And rather sick. I shall be back later to lay into this news some more, but in the meantime why not amuse yourselves by watching the revelations on that other Hannides heritage horror, the spitfire monument "secret seventh" winning competition design, investigated by the BBC: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=NbJOufYMd Lc . SpittingMoreFire

10:04am Thu 4 Aug 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Quote:- Cllr John Hannides added that the council running the museum to begin with is in the best interests of taxpayers.
..
Dont tell me Cllr whats in the "best interests of the taxpayer".
.
When that sort of comment comes from a national politician or local councillor it shows that you just dont have a clue on how to run it.
.
£5m ..... Black Hole. Before you start the "fundraising" where on earth will you get the money from to .
.
Mislead Tory supporters keep saying we have NO MONEY.
.
"No immediate results from funraising"
.
Council will provide the "cash flow".
.
Is incompetence rife amongst council leaders and members or is it just you and Royston that couldnt run a bath
Quote:- Cllr John Hannides added that the council running the museum to begin with is in the best interests of taxpayers. .. Dont tell me Cllr whats in the "best interests of the taxpayer". . When that sort of comment comes from a national politician or local councillor it shows that you just dont have a clue on how to run it. . £5m ..... Black Hole. Before you start the "fundraising" where on earth will you get the money from to . . Mislead Tory supporters keep saying we have NO MONEY. . "No immediate results from funraising" . Council will provide the "cash flow". . Is incompetence rife amongst council leaders and members or is it just you and Royston that couldnt run a bath Lone Ranger.

10:09am Thu 4 Aug 11

Maine Lobster says...

The justification for this venture was that the council tax payer was not to be burdened with it. The politicians claimed that the resources spent on it could not be used for other council budgets. However, we now have the reality of other council budgets having to support this vanity project which ironically has hit another iceberg.
I wonder if the Council's Bruce Ismay has sorted his seat in the lifeboat?
The justification for this venture was that the council tax payer was not to be burdened with it. The politicians claimed that the resources spent on it could not be used for other council budgets. However, we now have the reality of other council budgets having to support this vanity project which ironically has hit another iceberg. I wonder if the Council's Bruce Ismay has sorted his seat in the lifeboat? Maine Lobster

10:53am Thu 4 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

If I was planning to go on a cruise, the last thing I would want is to see what happened to the Titanic! That is like having a succession of Air Crash Investigation movies being played on a continuous loop on an airliner on a long haul flight!!! Now the project is on going it should be brought to fruition, we have little enough to attract Tourists as it is, it is time that we look for better ways of attracting income and a properly funded and run Tourist set up is one way. We already have the assetts which are laying dormant and unexploited. There is a financial gold mine out there, but it needs to be carefully managed.
If I was planning to go on a cruise, the last thing I would want is to see what happened to the Titanic! That is like having a succession of Air Crash Investigation movies being played on a continuous loop on an airliner on a long haul flight!!! Now the project is on going it should be brought to fruition, we have little enough to attract Tourists as it is, it is time that we look for better ways of attracting income and a properly funded and run Tourist set up is one way. We already have the assetts which are laying dormant and unexploited. There is a financial gold mine out there, but it needs to be carefully managed. OSPREYSAINT

10:56am Thu 4 Aug 11

Raxx says...

Pachyderm blanc
Pachyderm blanc Raxx

11:02am Thu 4 Aug 11

Brizzler says...

SpittingMoreFire wrote:
BMWDellboy wrote:
If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so.
Says it all. There are no profits in this venture.
Disagree, as the report states bids are based on pessimistic visitors. Combine that with trying to get better value than the council running it equals a hard bidding process for anyone.

As for anyone wondering whether cruise passengers spend anytime in the port you have clearly missed the story about Liverpool trying to poach the cruise business. Why do you think Liverpool want the business?
[quote][p][bold]SpittingMoreFire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BMWDellboy[/bold] wrote: If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so.[/p][/quote]Says it all. There are no profits in this venture.[/p][/quote]Disagree, as the report states bids are based on pessimistic visitors. Combine that with trying to get better value than the council running it equals a hard bidding process for anyone. As for anyone wondering whether cruise passengers spend anytime in the port you have clearly missed the story about Liverpool trying to poach the cruise business. Why do you think Liverpool want the business? Brizzler

11:05am Thu 4 Aug 11

Bagamn says...

before this project was even started, Cllr Hannides was told that it would be a waste of money. He and Napoleon Smith just carried on as if nothing was wrong. They should have looked at what happened to Pompey council over the Spinnacre tower. I think hannides and Smith should put their hands in their pockets and donate the rest of the cash they so unwisely spent on their ego trip.
before this project was even started, Cllr Hannides was told that it would be a waste of money. He and Napoleon Smith just carried on as if nothing was wrong. They should have looked at what happened to Pompey council over the Spinnacre tower. I think hannides and Smith should put their hands in their pockets and donate the rest of the cash they so unwisely spent on their ego trip. Bagamn

11:07am Thu 4 Aug 11

Linesman says...

MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
What a museum needs is to be in an area that people visit, and this does not meet that criteria.

I have no idea how many visit the Belfast museum, which is actually up and running, but my betting is that this one, if it does better, it will not be by much, and will still be a drain on the City's economy rather than a prudent investment.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]What a museum needs is to be in an area that people visit, and this does not meet that criteria. I have no idea how many visit the Belfast museum, which is actually up and running, but my betting is that this one, if it does better, it will not be by much, and will still be a drain on the City's economy rather than a prudent investment. Linesman

11:11am Thu 4 Aug 11

southy says...

MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss. southy

11:13am Thu 4 Aug 11

southy says...

MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago. southy

11:14am Thu 4 Aug 11

Linesman says...

Brizzler wrote:
SpittingMoreFire wrote:
BMWDellboy wrote:
If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so.
Says it all. There are no profits in this venture.
Disagree, as the report states bids are based on pessimistic visitors. Combine that with trying to get better value than the council running it equals a hard bidding process for anyone.

As for anyone wondering whether cruise passengers spend anytime in the port you have clearly missed the story about Liverpool trying to poach the cruise business. Why do you think Liverpool want the business?
I would imagine that there would be a hell of a lot more visitors that would be wanting to visit the Cavern Club and various sites associated with the Beatles, and Liverpool City Council would not have had to spend money on any of them.

The City Council have no idea of how to 'sell' Southampton. They only appear able to sell it short.
[quote][p][bold]Brizzler[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SpittingMoreFire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BMWDellboy[/bold] wrote: If a private company is not interested in running this museum then it is assumed that they cannot see a healthy profit in doing so.[/p][/quote]Says it all. There are no profits in this venture.[/p][/quote]Disagree, as the report states bids are based on pessimistic visitors. Combine that with trying to get better value than the council running it equals a hard bidding process for anyone. As for anyone wondering whether cruise passengers spend anytime in the port you have clearly missed the story about Liverpool trying to poach the cruise business. Why do you think Liverpool want the business?[/p][/quote]I would imagine that there would be a hell of a lot more visitors that would be wanting to visit the Cavern Club and various sites associated with the Beatles, and Liverpool City Council would not have had to spend money on any of them. The City Council have no idea of how to 'sell' Southampton. They only appear able to sell it short. Linesman

11:17am Thu 4 Aug 11

southy says...

Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
What a museum needs is to be in an area that people visit, and this does not meet that criteria.

I have no idea how many visit the Belfast museum, which is actually up and running, but my betting is that this one, if it does better, it will not be by much, and will still be a drain on the City's economy rather than a prudent investment.
Ireland has a very high tourist benefit, and landing in london going though liverpool to belfast is just one way of getting into Ireland.
A lot of yanks tend to go to Ireland more so than England.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]What a museum needs is to be in an area that people visit, and this does not meet that criteria. I have no idea how many visit the Belfast museum, which is actually up and running, but my betting is that this one, if it does better, it will not be by much, and will still be a drain on the City's economy rather than a prudent investment.[/p][/quote]Ireland has a very high tourist benefit, and landing in london going though liverpool to belfast is just one way of getting into Ireland. A lot of yanks tend to go to Ireland more so than England. southy

11:28am Thu 4 Aug 11

joenice1 says...

So many people on here are very quick to criticise!!!

Think Southampton needs this the current musems culd be put to better use and I for one and looking forward to it.


When is the Spitfire monument going up?
So many people on here are very quick to criticise!!! Think Southampton needs this the current musems culd be put to better use and I for one and looking forward to it. When is the Spitfire monument going up? joenice1

11:36am Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

I am looking forward to going to this museum.

I wholeheartedly support these big projects.

I would rather money from council taxes went on projects like this that provide employment, and create jobs, and make Southampton a place to be proud of

Also, projects like this are often the only sorts of council services other than bins / street cleaning / street lighting that most of the net contributors to the council actually use.

Would I rather money went to a wonderful museum which will create jobs, be a destination for school trips enjoyed by many thousands of children, bring in much interest from many tourists, or would I rather see it poured into protecting the pay of unskilled workers paid too much for emptying our bins, or supporting feckless parents who expect the council to pay to have their children taken to school by taxi.

Give me the major public works and the job creation and city pride every time!
I am looking forward to going to this museum. I wholeheartedly support these big projects. I would rather money from council taxes went on projects like this that provide employment, and create jobs, and make Southampton a place to be proud of Also, projects like this are often the only sorts of council services other than bins / street cleaning / street lighting that most of the net contributors to the council actually use. Would I rather money went to a wonderful museum which will create jobs, be a destination for school trips enjoyed by many thousands of children, bring in much interest from many tourists, or would I rather see it poured into protecting the pay of unskilled workers paid too much for emptying our bins, or supporting feckless parents who expect the council to pay to have their children taken to school by taxi. Give me the major public works and the job creation and city pride every time! Sotonians_lets_pull_together

11:39am Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Exactly,

Much better to do the deal when the project is massively de-risked.

The council will get a MUCH better deal this way, when the footfall can be seen, and it is a going concern.

Well done to the council for taking this approach. It seems very sensible
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Exactly, Much better to do the deal when the project is massively de-risked. The council will get a MUCH better deal this way, when the footfall can be seen, and it is a going concern. Well done to the council for taking this approach. It seems very sensible Sotonians_lets_pull_together

11:44am Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

SpittingMoreFire wrote:
MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Spittingfire's quote of note: MGRA says:

it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?

Correct. Very macabre. And rather sick.

I shall be back later to lay into this news some more, but in the meantime why not amuse yourselves by watching the revelations on that other Hannides heritage horror, the spitfire monument "secret seventh" winning competition design, investigated by the BBC:

http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=NbJOufYMd

Lc
.
Yes SPM, I dont like the implications of that report, or the way it was handled. I dont blame the competition entrants who perhaps wasted their time and money in putting together their entries for being furious.

However, their issues of the other entrants are up to them to handle.

As a resident, I am not concerned personally about their issues (other than feeling disappointed that they seem to have perhaps been badly used), I am just looking forward to the monument, and think it will look great.
[quote][p][bold]SpittingMoreFire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Spittingfire's quote of note: MGRA says: [quote]it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/quote] Correct. Very macabre. And rather sick. I shall be back later to lay into this news some more, but in the meantime why not amuse yourselves by watching the revelations on that other Hannides heritage horror, the spitfire monument "secret seventh" winning competition design, investigated by the BBC: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=NbJOufYMd Lc .[/p][/quote]Yes SPM, I dont like the implications of that report, or the way it was handled. I dont blame the competition entrants who perhaps wasted their time and money in putting together their entries for being furious. However, their issues of the other entrants are up to them to handle. As a resident, I am not concerned personally about their issues (other than feeling disappointed that they seem to have perhaps been badly used), I am just looking forward to the monument, and think it will look great. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

11:54am Thu 4 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

I am all for the Museum, without a middle man creaming off the profits it ought to be possible to manAge it with the right calibre of staff, perhaps some of those redundant binmen could be employed as janitors?
I am all for the Museum, without a middle man creaming off the profits it ought to be possible to manAge it with the right calibre of staff, perhaps some of those redundant binmen could be employed as janitors? OSPREYSAINT

11:58am Thu 4 Aug 11

ecuk268 says...

Hannides is a philistine.

Not content with disfiguring a listed building he also wants to turn the real Maritime Museum and Gods House Tower into pubs.

he also tried to sell off works of art that were left to the people of Southampton, not to whoever happens to be running the council.

He knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

He has no concept of the history of the city. He should talk to Jack Candy, a long-time resident who valued the city's old buildings.
Hannides is a philistine. Not content with disfiguring a listed building he also wants to turn the real Maritime Museum and Gods House Tower into pubs. he also tried to sell off works of art that were left to the people of Southampton, not to whoever happens to be running the council. He knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. He has no concept of the history of the city. He should talk to Jack Candy, a long-time resident who valued the city's old buildings. ecuk268

11:59am Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives.

The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast)

The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it.

Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy...

...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg.

Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there.

Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents?

How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from?

I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:02pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I am all for the Museum, without a middle man creaming off the profits it ought to be possible to manAge it with the right calibre of staff, perhaps some of those redundant binmen could be employed as janitors?
I too am all for keeping things in house providing costs can be kept down
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: I am all for the Museum, without a middle man creaming off the profits it ought to be possible to manAge it with the right calibre of staff, perhaps some of those redundant binmen could be employed as janitors?[/p][/quote]I too am all for keeping things in house providing costs can be kept down Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:05pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives.

The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast)

The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it.

Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy...

...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg.

Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there.

Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents?

How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from?

I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer.
.

But we dont have any money.
.
Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut.
.
This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up.
.
So where is the £5m coming from
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.[/p][/quote]Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer. . But we dont have any money. . Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut. . This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up. . So where is the £5m coming from Lone Ranger.

12:09pm Thu 4 Aug 11

MGRA says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.
southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect. MGRA

12:13pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

ecuk268 wrote:
Hannides is a philistine.

Not content with disfiguring a listed building he also wants to turn the real Maritime Museum and Gods House Tower into pubs.

he also tried to sell off works of art that were left to the people of Southampton, not to whoever happens to be running the council.

He knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

He has no concept of the history of the city. He should talk to Jack Candy, a long-time resident who valued the city's old buildings.
Well, I dont agree with them being pubs. Pubs are closing because there are too many of them. Why damage historic buildings for such a short sighted approach.

We surely need these to be maintained excellent museums too.

The Maritime Museum of course has been housed in the Wool House

The Wool House was built in 1417 as a warehouse for the medieval wool trade with Flanders and Italy. After the decline of wool exports in the late 16th century, the building became a store for alum, a substance used to prepare cloth for dyeing. During the 18th century it was used as a prison and some French prisoners of war carved their names in beams, which can still be seen on the first floor.

This should be maintained as a medieval trade museum. We could have living history displays in there, school trips, it could be like a medieval version of Jorvik in York.

Southampton needs to exploit its medieval heritage much much better for tourism.

I would be all for pulling down the post war awful high street buildings and setting up a new "medieval quarter", to recover at last from the damage from wartime bombing

There is no reason that southampton in time could not be as attractive a location for shopping in as Bath and Winchester

We should be exploiting the roman history too, and Canute

Where are the museums? Where are the activities, the tours? Our heritage is a wasted asset at the moment which could create massive employment.

Southampton is blessed with a wonderful climate with much sunshine, and should be a much bigger tourist attraction than it is now.

The wartime damage to the high street can be blamed for much of that I believe

Yes it is great to be exploiting the wartime heritage, and the titanic heritage, but we have a lot of medieval heritage that could be presented and sold much better.
[quote][p][bold]ecuk268[/bold] wrote: Hannides is a philistine. Not content with disfiguring a listed building he also wants to turn the real Maritime Museum and Gods House Tower into pubs. he also tried to sell off works of art that were left to the people of Southampton, not to whoever happens to be running the council. He knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. He has no concept of the history of the city. He should talk to Jack Candy, a long-time resident who valued the city's old buildings.[/p][/quote]Well, I dont agree with them being pubs. Pubs are closing because there are too many of them. Why damage historic buildings for such a short sighted approach. We surely need these to be maintained excellent museums too. The Maritime Museum of course has been housed in the Wool House The Wool House was built in 1417 as a warehouse for the medieval wool trade with Flanders and Italy. After the decline of wool exports in the late 16th century, the building became a store for alum, a substance used to prepare cloth for dyeing. During the 18th century it was used as a prison and some French prisoners of war carved their names in beams, which can still be seen on the first floor. This should be maintained as a medieval trade museum. We could have living history displays in there, school trips, it could be like a medieval version of Jorvik in York. Southampton needs to exploit its medieval heritage much much better for tourism. I would be all for pulling down the post war awful high street buildings and setting up a new "medieval quarter", to recover at last from the damage from wartime bombing There is no reason that southampton in time could not be as attractive a location for shopping in as Bath and Winchester We should be exploiting the roman history too, and Canute Where are the museums? Where are the activities, the tours? Our heritage is a wasted asset at the moment which could create massive employment. Southampton is blessed with a wonderful climate with much sunshine, and should be a much bigger tourist attraction than it is now. The wartime damage to the high street can be blamed for much of that I believe Yes it is great to be exploiting the wartime heritage, and the titanic heritage, but we have a lot of medieval heritage that could be presented and sold much better. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:14pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Lone Ranger. says...

MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.
southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.
Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%.
.
That looks like slipping back.
.
Bit there again i was never too good at spin
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.[/p][/quote]Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin Lone Ranger.

12:19pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives.

The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast)

The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it.

Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy...

...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg.

Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there.

Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents?

How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from?

I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer.
.

But we dont have any money.
.
Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut.
.
This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up.
.
So where is the £5m coming from
Do you mean the shortfall that will be met temporarily by the taxpayer?

There is a difference between money that is invested and recoverable, and will generate future cashflow, and money that is simply poured down the drain on recurring costs that we cannot afford

Sadly there are human lives that are associated with these costs, jobs and dependent families, but the council is not a charity. It can only afford the services it can afford. It has to balance priorities, and we have too many workers being paid too much, and delivering services where efficiencies can be made.

It is the responsibility of the council to look out for the interests of the residents, and to minimise the recurring costs that the council taxes get eaten up by.

If the workers want to demonstrate, they should be going up to northern towns to ask for their money back. The labour government funnelled too much money from southern taxpayers to the north.

That is one of the major reasons we have the issues we do now, along with of course the massive labour deficit that the current government have to reduce and manage
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.[/p][/quote]Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer. . But we dont have any money. . Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut. . This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up. . So where is the £5m coming from[/p][/quote]Do you mean the shortfall that will be met temporarily by the taxpayer? There is a difference between money that is invested and recoverable, and will generate future cashflow, and money that is simply poured down the drain on recurring costs that we cannot afford Sadly there are human lives that are associated with these costs, jobs and dependent families, but the council is not a charity. It can only afford the services it can afford. It has to balance priorities, and we have too many workers being paid too much, and delivering services where efficiencies can be made. It is the responsibility of the council to look out for the interests of the residents, and to minimise the recurring costs that the council taxes get eaten up by. If the workers want to demonstrate, they should be going up to northern towns to ask for their money back. The labour government funnelled too much money from southern taxpayers to the north. That is one of the major reasons we have the issues we do now, along with of course the massive labour deficit that the current government have to reduce and manage Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:22pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Roger Khan says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives.

The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast)

The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it.

Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy...

...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg.

Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there.

Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents?

How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from?

I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer.
.

But we dont have any money.
.
Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut.
.
This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up.
.
So where is the £5m coming from
I'll cover it. Its going to be boring and lame but i'll do it.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.[/p][/quote]Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer. . But we dont have any money. . Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut. . This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up. . So where is the £5m coming from[/p][/quote]I'll cover it. Its going to be boring and lame but i'll do it. Roger Khan

12:23pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Allotment man 66 says...

I looks like Royston Smith and his crones bubble has burst, just like we all said it would.

Titanic museum was a white elephant from the vary start. Who's going to pay for it now ???(not the peoples of Southampton I hope).

Key Word
fact-come How true
I looks like Royston Smith and his crones bubble has burst, just like we all said it would. Titanic museum was a white elephant from the vary start. Who's going to pay for it now ???(not the peoples of Southampton I hope). Key Word fact-come How true Allotment man 66

12:33pm Thu 4 Aug 11

IanRRR says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.
southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.
Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin
For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY!

I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years.

Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here!
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.[/p][/quote]Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin[/p][/quote]For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY! I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years. Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here! IanRRR

12:34pm Thu 4 Aug 11

George4th says...

To quote Oddball:- "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves"
>
Amazing how the Doomsayers come out to play and ply their insecurities!
>
It's the same mentality that dogged the Labour Council we had for 20 years or more, and nothing got done!
>
Portsmouth, with their Spinnaker Tower and other innovative projects, sailed way ahead of Southampton when we had the Labour Council (Lib Dem help occasionally!) sitting on their hands.
To quote Oddball:- "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves" > Amazing how the Doomsayers come out to play and ply their insecurities! > It's the same mentality that dogged the Labour Council we had for 20 years or more, and nothing got done! > Portsmouth, with their Spinnaker Tower and other innovative projects, sailed way ahead of Southampton when we had the Labour Council (Lib Dem help occasionally!) sitting on their hands. George4th

12:36pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

IanRRR wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.
southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.
Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin
For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY!

I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years.

Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here!
yes, we are terrible at publicising the free events.

I assume this is becuase they dont want the city gridlocked, and the enough get well enough attended by dripping the news out, but too often I have heard about things afterwards.

They should get bbc south today involved more in promoting the events
[quote][p][bold]IanRRR[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.[/p][/quote]Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin[/p][/quote]For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY! I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years. Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here![/p][/quote]yes, we are terrible at publicising the free events. I assume this is becuase they dont want the city gridlocked, and the enough get well enough attended by dripping the news out, but too often I have heard about things afterwards. They should get bbc south today involved more in promoting the events Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:38pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

George4th wrote:
To quote Oddball:- "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves"
>
Amazing how the Doomsayers come out to play and ply their insecurities!
>
It's the same mentality that dogged the Labour Council we had for 20 years or more, and nothing got done!
>
Portsmouth, with their Spinnaker Tower and other innovative projects, sailed way ahead of Southampton when we had the Labour Council (Lib Dem help occasionally!) sitting on their hands.
well said!
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: To quote Oddball:- "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves" > Amazing how the Doomsayers come out to play and ply their insecurities! > It's the same mentality that dogged the Labour Council we had for 20 years or more, and nothing got done! > Portsmouth, with their Spinnaker Tower and other innovative projects, sailed way ahead of Southampton when we had the Labour Council (Lib Dem help occasionally!) sitting on their hands.[/p][/quote]well said! Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:49pm Thu 4 Aug 11

southy says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
George4th wrote:
To quote Oddball:- "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves"
>
Amazing how the Doomsayers come out to play and ply their insecurities!
>
It's the same mentality that dogged the Labour Council we had for 20 years or more, and nothing got done!
>
Portsmouth, with their Spinnaker Tower and other innovative projects, sailed way ahead of Southampton when we had the Labour Council (Lib Dem help occasionally!) sitting on their hands.
well said!
No just realist. Those places have a lot more going for them, the Torys here killed the Industry that employed 100's people.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: To quote Oddball:- "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves" > Amazing how the Doomsayers come out to play and ply their insecurities! > It's the same mentality that dogged the Labour Council we had for 20 years or more, and nothing got done! > Portsmouth, with their Spinnaker Tower and other innovative projects, sailed way ahead of Southampton when we had the Labour Council (Lib Dem help occasionally!) sitting on their hands.[/p][/quote]well said![/p][/quote]No just realist. Those places have a lot more going for them, the Torys here killed the Industry that employed 100's people. southy

1:00pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Roger Khan wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives.

The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast)

The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it.

Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy...

...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg.

Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there.

Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents?

How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from?

I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer.
.

But we dont have any money.
.
Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut.
.
This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up.
.
So where is the £5m coming from
I'll cover it. Its going to be boring and lame but i'll do it.
Oh thanks Rog'
[quote][p][bold]Roger Khan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.[/p][/quote]Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer. . But we dont have any money. . Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut. . This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up. . So where is the £5m coming from[/p][/quote]I'll cover it. Its going to be boring and lame but i'll do it.[/p][/quote]Oh thanks Rog' Lone Ranger.

1:03pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives.

The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast)

The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it.

Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy...

...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg.

Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there.

Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents?

How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from?

I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer.
.

But we dont have any money.
.
Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut.
.
This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up.
.
So where is the £5m coming from
Do you mean the shortfall that will be met temporarily by the taxpayer?

There is a difference between money that is invested and recoverable, and will generate future cashflow, and money that is simply poured down the drain on recurring costs that we cannot afford

Sadly there are human lives that are associated with these costs, jobs and dependent families, but the council is not a charity. It can only afford the services it can afford. It has to balance priorities, and we have too many workers being paid too much, and delivering services where efficiencies can be made.

It is the responsibility of the council to look out for the interests of the residents, and to minimise the recurring costs that the council taxes get eaten up by.

If the workers want to demonstrate, they should be going up to northern towns to ask for their money back. The labour government funnelled too much money from southern taxpayers to the north.

That is one of the major reasons we have the issues we do now, along with of course the massive labour deficit that the current government have to reduce and manage
So its a temporary fix then is it.
.
Define to us what is temporary.
.
And dont go off on another mind numbing tangent
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.[/p][/quote]Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer. . But we dont have any money. . Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut. . This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up. . So where is the £5m coming from[/p][/quote]Do you mean the shortfall that will be met temporarily by the taxpayer? There is a difference between money that is invested and recoverable, and will generate future cashflow, and money that is simply poured down the drain on recurring costs that we cannot afford Sadly there are human lives that are associated with these costs, jobs and dependent families, but the council is not a charity. It can only afford the services it can afford. It has to balance priorities, and we have too many workers being paid too much, and delivering services where efficiencies can be made. It is the responsibility of the council to look out for the interests of the residents, and to minimise the recurring costs that the council taxes get eaten up by. If the workers want to demonstrate, they should be going up to northern towns to ask for their money back. The labour government funnelled too much money from southern taxpayers to the north. That is one of the major reasons we have the issues we do now, along with of course the massive labour deficit that the current government have to reduce and manage[/p][/quote]So its a temporary fix then is it. . Define to us what is temporary. . And dont go off on another mind numbing tangent Lone Ranger.

1:37pm Thu 4 Aug 11

5tEmmosFire says...

There is no reason why this should work. Southampton has a great maritime history and there should be a good museum to represent that. Infact it should be the iconic center for Southampton. Negativity is a poison and gets you no where, you got to get behind your city and it's projects that have the aim of improving the area.
There is no reason why this should work. Southampton has a great maritime history and there should be a good museum to represent that. Infact it should be the iconic center for Southampton. Negativity is a poison and gets you no where, you got to get behind your city and it's projects that have the aim of improving the area. 5tEmmosFire

1:42pm Thu 4 Aug 11

southy says...

IanRRR wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.
southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.
Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin
For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY!

I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years.

Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here!
Temporary fix never work they just make the problem worse.
Funny thing is that the Torys here borrowed £5 million to fight the strikers.
You know the economy is like chaging up a battery, you fast charge a battery and its a weak charge but if you trickle charge the battery you get a stronger charge.
[quote][p][bold]IanRRR[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.[/p][/quote]Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin[/p][/quote]For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY! I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years. Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here![/p][/quote]Temporary fix never work they just make the problem worse. Funny thing is that the Torys here borrowed £5 million to fight the strikers. You know the economy is like chaging up a battery, you fast charge a battery and its a weak charge but if you trickle charge the battery you get a stronger charge. southy

1:48pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Nearly an OAP says...

As has been mentioned before the whole idea of a Titanic experience is completely sick and macabre. Hundreds of Southampton seamen were drowned while serving on this ship, unbelievably their pay being stopped the moment the ship sunk, so to any living relatives this will be an insult capitalising on their lives. Also, as previously stated, cruise ship passengers do not spend much time in Southampton so won't be going there. As regards the last private firm pulling out of running this venture, when things improve and if there are good attendances there will be no shortage of firms looking to run it. This council have had some stupid ideas and this must be the sickest of them all.
As has been mentioned before the whole idea of a Titanic experience is completely sick and macabre. Hundreds of Southampton seamen were drowned while serving on this ship, unbelievably their pay being stopped the moment the ship sunk, so to any living relatives this will be an insult capitalising on their lives. Also, as previously stated, cruise ship passengers do not spend much time in Southampton so won't be going there. As regards the last private firm pulling out of running this venture, when things improve and if there are good attendances there will be no shortage of firms looking to run it. This council have had some stupid ideas and this must be the sickest of them all. Nearly an OAP

1:49pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Watcherfromtheeaves says...

Hey, I have an idea - lets make public sector workers fund this.. They can take a further pay cut, pay more into their pension and use all that money to pay for this ridiculous scheme that the private sector cannot run away fast enough from... Go go Southampton City Council your money management is laughable.
Hey, I have an idea - lets make public sector workers fund this.. They can take a further pay cut, pay more into their pension and use all that money to pay for this ridiculous scheme that the private sector cannot run away fast enough from... Go go Southampton City Council your money management is laughable. Watcherfromtheeaves

2:24pm Thu 4 Aug 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

Sltp you really are an arse! saying you would not wish to visit Belfast because of a ship that was built 100 years ago and it's shoddy workmanship, you need to check your history 'titanic' had sisters did they all sink?,no my advice to you would be to shut up, a few of our friends across the Irish sea may take offence from your idiotic comments , don't visit the streets around Harland and woolfe if i were you.(Belfast had a very proud tradition in shipbuilding)
Sltp you really are an arse! saying you would not wish to visit Belfast because of a ship that was built 100 years ago and it's shoddy workmanship, you need to check your history 'titanic' had sisters did they all sink?,no my advice to you would be to shut up, a few of our friends across the Irish sea may take offence from your idiotic comments , don't visit the streets around Harland and woolfe if i were you.(Belfast had a very proud tradition in shipbuilding) go ahead punk make my day

2:27pm Thu 4 Aug 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

By the way the Irish are one of the friendliest people you will ever meet,and the night life puts Southampton to shame.
By the way the Irish are one of the friendliest people you will ever meet,and the night life puts Southampton to shame. go ahead punk make my day

2:35pm Thu 4 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

After seeing John Hannides grinning fizzog on the tele last night at the topping out ceremony, you just knew something had to go wrong?

Why didn't mention this last night on tele? Surely he knew no one wanted to take this on when he appeared on the news.

Well just goes to show, someone is telling porkies, we have no money we hear Royston say.

Well where did the money come to recruit a fund raising team?

Where will the £5 million come to prop this up?

Who will manage this building, now that you have cut your managers?

I have my suspicions that this museum will be farmed out to volunteers to man, just like our libraries.

Where is Condor Man when you need a laugh?
After seeing John Hannides grinning fizzog on the tele last night at the topping out ceremony, you just knew something had to go wrong? Why didn't mention this last night on tele? Surely he knew no one wanted to take this on when he appeared on the news. Well just goes to show, someone is telling porkies, we have no money we hear Royston say. Well where did the money come to recruit a fund raising team? Where will the £5 million come to prop this up? Who will manage this building, now that you have cut your managers? I have my suspicions that this museum will be farmed out to volunteers to man, just like our libraries. Where is Condor Man when you need a laugh? My View From Here

2:37pm Thu 4 Aug 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

£10 million and counting!
£10 million and counting! go ahead punk make my day

3:11pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Rob444 says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I am all for the Museum, without a middle man creaming off the profits it ought to be possible to manAge it with the right calibre of staff, perhaps some of those redundant binmen could be employed as janitors?
I too am all for keeping things in house providing costs can be kept down
I would also prefer that any profits go to the city than to some parasitic outsourcing outfit. In fact, it would not need to make a profit if the council runs the show.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: I am all for the Museum, without a middle man creaming off the profits it ought to be possible to manAge it with the right calibre of staff, perhaps some of those redundant binmen could be employed as janitors?[/p][/quote]I too am all for keeping things in house providing costs can be kept down[/p][/quote]I would also prefer that any profits go to the city than to some parasitic outsourcing outfit. In fact, it would not need to make a profit if the council runs the show. Rob444

3:58pm Thu 4 Aug 11

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
I am not surprise at all, the Titanic Museum in Belfast is going to be the one for people to and see if your interested in this ship.
WHY? it was built there but Southampton was it's home port & this is where it set sail on it's doomed voyage.Do people go to Scotland to see where the QE2 was built or did they come here to see the ship? It's because of people like you & the Labour party who don't or wouldn't agree with investment in this cities history that have allowed Belfast a head start.Most people want to see where it set sail from & find out more about the ship & unless you know more than historians that port was Southampton.Why are you so ANTI Southampton & why do you have the cheek to call yourself Southy as in this article & the Liverpool article your posts are so anti our city I wonder why your still living here?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I am not surprise at all, the Titanic Museum in Belfast is going to be the one for people to and see if your interested in this ship.[/p][/quote]WHY? it was built there but Southampton was it's home port & this is where it set sail on it's doomed voyage.Do people go to Scotland to see where the QE2 was built or did they come here to see the ship? It's because of people like you & the Labour party who don't or wouldn't agree with investment in this cities history that have allowed Belfast a head start.Most people want to see where it set sail from & find out more about the ship & unless you know more than historians that port was Southampton.Why are you so ANTI Southampton & why do you have the cheek to call yourself Southy as in this article & the Liverpool article your posts are so anti our city I wonder why your still living here? loosehead

4:56pm Thu 4 Aug 11

J.K. says...

Letting any Greek near finances is going to be a disaster
Letting any Greek near finances is going to be a disaster J.K.

5:37pm Thu 4 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
IanRRR wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.
southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.
Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin
For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY!

I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years.

Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here!
yes, we are terrible at publicising the free events.

I assume this is becuase they dont want the city gridlocked, and the enough get well enough attended by dripping the news out, but too often I have heard about things afterwards.

They should get bbc south today involved more in promoting the events
SLPT says

Yes , we are terrible at publicising the free events,,,,,,who is the we you speak of,,,,,would that be you and your Tory colleagues at the council?

I'm amazed that the city council didn't really have a plan B up it's sleeve, in these times of public spending cuts, surely someone in the council must have wondered what will happen if the private firm pulls out?

I wonder how much time and money has gone into this by officers and lawyers for the council, even if next year a private firm takes it over, the council has wasted thousands of pounds of on this folly.

I'm not bother if people go to Belfast to see its museum, I am bothered how many people come to this one and how much it will cost us to run.

I also wonder now that SCC running it, I wonder if they will allow schoolchildren to visit for free, unlike the privately run Tudor House museum?

All in all I think someone head needs to role, this is a debacle that people of Southampton will have to pay for, coupled with the shambolic handling of the strikes,should only lead to one thing,,the resignation of Royston Smith.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanRRR[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Well your going to have a long wait, the economy is slipping down again, its going to be a good 10 years just to get back on the same level of 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]southy. the economy is not "slipping down" again, we are experiencing sluggish growth, so once more you are incorrect.[/p][/quote]Back from the dizzy heights of 0.5% to 0.2%. . That looks like slipping back. . Bit there again i was never too good at spin[/p][/quote]For once (and yes, only once), I AGREE WITH SOUTHY! I work in financial services, and I think we are slipping back, and will be lucky to get out of this hole, inside ten years. Now, where I disagree, is that there is a market for both Belfast (which is fast slipping back to the bad old days, but the spin doctors are hiding it well), and our project. The problem is that we are hopeless at publicity! The launch of the clipper race being a great example of not getting the message across.... A free night out, at Ocean Village, watching top bands, and only a couple of thousand turn out for it, because there was no publicity. I only found out about it, because I read a bit of shipping news on here![/p][/quote]yes, we are terrible at publicising the free events. I assume this is becuase they dont want the city gridlocked, and the enough get well enough attended by dripping the news out, but too often I have heard about things afterwards. They should get bbc south today involved more in promoting the events[/p][/quote]SLPT says Yes , we are terrible at publicising the free events,,,,,,who is the we you speak of,,,,,would that be you and your Tory colleagues at the council? I'm amazed that the city council didn't really have a plan B up it's sleeve, in these times of public spending cuts, surely someone in the council must have wondered what will happen if the private firm pulls out? I wonder how much time and money has gone into this by officers and lawyers for the council, even if next year a private firm takes it over, the council has wasted thousands of pounds of on this folly. I'm not bother if people go to Belfast to see its museum, I am bothered how many people come to this one and how much it will cost us to run. I also wonder now that SCC running it, I wonder if they will allow schoolchildren to visit for free, unlike the privately run Tudor House museum? All in all I think someone head needs to role, this is a debacle that people of Southampton will have to pay for, coupled with the shambolic handling of the strikes,should only lead to one thing,,the resignation of Royston Smith. My View From Here

5:48pm Thu 4 Aug 11

thinklikealocal says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
The ultimate demise of the ship was due to the owners insisting that:

a/ the ship was finishged on time hence the decision to leave out some of the watertight bulkheads... and
b/ the desire for her to cross the Atlantic quickly hence the excessive speed of the ship despite the warning of icebergs in a dead calm sea

I was lucky enough to visit Belfast last year and even luckier to book a private taxi tour with a driver who was a part time lecturer at Ulster University in the NI history. He was fab. An attraction like this is not enough in itself to draw in visitors but it just adds to the wealth already on offer in Belfast.

Southampton's not too bad you know, we are all guilty of not appreciateing where we live in the same way as a visitor might. I have met people on holiday before who have visited Southampton as 'weekenders' - often to tie in with a visit to the theatre and they thought it was great. why must we always talk down our town/country... I just don't understand it.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.[/p][/quote]The ultimate demise of the ship was due to the owners insisting that: a/ the ship was finishged on time hence the decision to leave out some of the watertight bulkheads... and b/ the desire for her to cross the Atlantic quickly hence the excessive speed of the ship despite the warning of icebergs in a dead calm sea I was lucky enough to visit Belfast last year and even luckier to book a private taxi tour with a driver who was a part time lecturer at Ulster University in the NI history. He was fab. An attraction like this is not enough in itself to draw in visitors but it just adds to the wealth already on offer in Belfast. Southampton's not too bad you know, we are all guilty of not appreciateing where we live in the same way as a visitor might. I have met people on holiday before who have visited Southampton as 'weekenders' - often to tie in with a visit to the theatre and they thought it was great. why must we always talk down our town/country... I just don't understand it. thinklikealocal

6:26pm Thu 4 Aug 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_



together
wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.
Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.
Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives.

The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast)

The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it.

Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy...

...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg.

Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there.

Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents?

How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from?

I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.
Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer.
.

But we dont have any money.
.
Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut.
.
This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up.
.
So where is the £5m coming from
Do you mean the shortfall that will be met temporarily by the taxpayer?

There is a difference between money that is invested and recoverable, and will generate future cashflow, and money that is simply poured down the drain on recurring costs that we cannot afford

Sadly there are human lives that are associated with these costs, jobs and dependent families, but the council is not a charity. It can only afford the services it can afford. It has to balance priorities, and we have too many workers being paid too much, and delivering services where efficiencies can be made.

It is the responsibility of the council to look out for the interests of the residents, and to minimise the recurring costs that the council taxes get eaten up by.

If the workers want to demonstrate, they should be going up to northern towns to ask for their money back. The labour government funnelled too much money from southern taxpayers to the north.

That is one of the major reasons we have the issues we do now, along with of course the massive labour deficit that the current government have to reduce and manage
So its a temporary fix then is it.
.
Define to us what is temporary.
.
And dont go off on another mind numbing tangent
Still curious SLPT to know your definition of "temporary".
.
Surely the Council meeting has finished by now.
.
Heres waiting
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: when the economy improves there will be no trouble finding a commercial sponsor for the museum, but it would not make sense to try to get a private company to run it. Southy's comment as usual displays supreme ignorance of the most important thing a museum needs... footfall... any idea what the annual catchment for a belfast museum would be Southy ? thought not. you really have not got a clue.[/p][/quote]Well it must be really good that guy who found the Titanic, is going back to the Titanic just to take pictures to give to the Belfast Titanic Museum, and he would not waste his time on that if the catchment was not really good. He not bothering about Southampton at all and is given us a miss.[/p][/quote]Maybe your attitude Southy can be explained by the difference between socialists and conservatives. The socialists are maybe more interested in the workers who built it (Belfast) The conservatives and tourists are likely to be more interested in the passenger experience, the embarkation photos, the personal stories. The surivivors and those unfortunates that didnt make it. Of course visitors in Southampton will be just as interested in the reasons for the tragedy... ...of course many of the reasons that all these people died lie in Belfast, whether it was the decision not to put on enough life boats, the poor quality materials which have been shown to have been responsible for the structural failure - the poor quality rivets that led the seam to open up like a zip when it hit the iceberg. Personally, I am so sickened by the cost cutting and failures in the design and construction of the ship, that I wouldnt want to give any of my hard earned to Belfast by gong there. Surely going to the Belfast museum simply rewards the city for its poor ship building which cost the lives of so many innocents? How many visitors go to Stonehenge every year, compared to the quarry the stones came from? I dont see the Belfast attraction as much of a draw unless you happen to be massively obsessed with the Titanic, or are going to Northern Ireland anyway for some unfathomable reason.[/p][/quote]Very commendable but you have forgotten about the £5m shortfall which will be met by the taxpayer. . But we dont have any money. . Royston tells us that there is no money available with wages and jobs being cut. . This is a Tory and in particular Hanidies and Smith s.c.rew up. . So where is the £5m coming from[/p][/quote]Do you mean the shortfall that will be met temporarily by the taxpayer? There is a difference between money that is invested and recoverable, and will generate future cashflow, and money that is simply poured down the drain on recurring costs that we cannot afford Sadly there are human lives that are associated with these costs, jobs and dependent families, but the council is not a charity. It can only afford the services it can afford. It has to balance priorities, and we have too many workers being paid too much, and delivering services where efficiencies can be made. It is the responsibility of the council to look out for the interests of the residents, and to minimise the recurring costs that the council taxes get eaten up by. If the workers want to demonstrate, they should be going up to northern towns to ask for their money back. The labour government funnelled too much money from southern taxpayers to the north. That is one of the major reasons we have the issues we do now, along with of course the massive labour deficit that the current government have to reduce and manage[/p][/quote]So its a temporary fix then is it. . Define to us what is temporary. . And dont go off on another mind numbing tangent[/p][/quote]Still curious SLPT to know your definition of "temporary". . Surely the Council meeting has finished by now. . Heres waiting Lone Ranger.

7:25pm Thu 4 Aug 11

sotonbusdriver says...

MGRA wrote:
sotonbusdriver wrote:
I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside.
It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money.
No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council.
Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop.
Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..
you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?
Any Company that links itself to a sinking ship..... needs to take a closer look at their image...
I can see the rats running fast here...
The Titanic is gaining a short lived revival at the moment because of it's 100th anniversary of the sinking next year, but will soon wane away.
As the years go by even the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month, so losing ground..
People don't want to keep habouring on the past, especially when that history was at the loss of lives.
And more so this so call multi-cultural society that we are supposed to be promoting these days, doesn't want to know or understand our past just get us interested in theirs.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonbusdriver[/bold] wrote: I can see this coming back and biting the local tax payers in the backside. It's going to be the usual Council flop and last of money. No Company with any sense in this financial climate is going to commit to spending money on a whim of a Council. Like most projects that the woolly headed Council come up with this again is looking to be a big flop. Although it may have an interest in 2012 as the 100th anniversary of the disaster of Titanic it will not have a long term interest..[/p][/quote]you don't see the commercial hook in here... there are plenty of companies that would sponsor the museum when the time is right... just not now. This museum was planned years ago so SCC are just reacting to the reality on the ground. It won't be a flop. Since cruise turn around offers a gift-wrapped potential for customers... although it does seem a strange prospect for a cruise passenger,,, to see evidence of a sunken liner !?!?[/p][/quote]Any Company that links itself to a sinking ship..... needs to take a closer look at their image... I can see the rats running fast here... The Titanic is gaining a short lived revival at the moment because of it's 100th anniversary of the sinking next year, but will soon wane away. As the years go by even the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month, so losing ground.. People don't want to keep habouring on the past, especially when that history was at the loss of lives. And more so this so call multi-cultural society that we are supposed to be promoting these days, doesn't want to know or understand our past just get us interested in theirs. sotonbusdriver

7:47pm Thu 4 Aug 11

captain_chaos says...

Oh dear! My comment was removed. Truth hurts dunnit?
Oh dear! My comment was removed. Truth hurts dunnit? captain_chaos

8:57pm Thu 4 Aug 11

mr.southampton says...

The whole thing was just a vanity project for the Tory politicians.

I said at the time that it seemed odd that an administration which in Alec Samuels own words was commited to outsourcing for 'ideological reasons' was engaging in such a project which the market obviously decided wasn't a worthwile opportunity.

And now they're forced into an embarrasing about-turn saying it will be better off run by the council!

So much for the free-market

Buffoons
The whole thing was just a vanity project for the Tory politicians. I said at the time that it seemed odd that an administration which in Alec Samuels own words was commited to outsourcing for 'ideological reasons' was engaging in such a project which the market obviously decided wasn't a worthwile opportunity. And now they're forced into an embarrasing about-turn saying it will be better off run by the council! So much for the free-market Buffoons mr.southampton

11:20pm Thu 4 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

One of the strangest facts was that the Crew on the Titanic stopped being paid any wages that would have been earned had the ship not sunk, when that happened their contracts ceased as they had no ship to work on, nothing like that would happen today would it? They wouldn't stop workers wages because the ship was sinking would they?
One of the strangest facts was that the Crew on the Titanic stopped being paid any wages that would have been earned had the ship not sunk, when that happened their contracts ceased as they had no ship to work on, nothing like that would happen today would it? They wouldn't stop workers wages because the ship was sinking would they? OSPREYSAINT

11:38am Fri 5 Aug 11

LadySam says...

Ironic isn't it? Celebrating the demise of the unsinkable. The Titanic sank but the wealthy largely managed to abandon ship and survive. Southampton is sinking through unemployment, ghetto-like no go areas and mismanagement by the city council. The rest of us flounder in a sea of household refuse and it looks like we will be going down with the ship....
Ironic isn't it? Celebrating the demise of the unsinkable. The Titanic sank but the wealthy largely managed to abandon ship and survive. Southampton is sinking through unemployment, ghetto-like no go areas and mismanagement by the city council. The rest of us flounder in a sea of household refuse and it looks like we will be going down with the ship.... LadySam

4:15pm Fri 5 Aug 11

Itchenz says...

Those who run City heritage are highly paid & yet dont appear to live in the real world - there is a rather big reccession at present & private sector companies have been going to the wall recently, since at least 2009 actually.
With this in mind was it ever realistic for the council to expect any private sector business to take on a service that cannot charge an admission for the Art Gallery & has struggled to make the existing museums pay their way? The city museum at God's House Tower recently had the opening hours reduced to weekends only due to falling visitor numbers, so surely the private sector has done some research of their own & found that making a museum work well & to make a profit is not at all easy in the present economic climate. Instead of employing mostly academics who know a Monet from a Manet we also need people in our heritage department who know about business & economics, profit & loss etc. This is not rocket science.

Mr.Hannides is a temporary fixture on the council & in any case is advised by a very large full time staff & so has no excuses for the spin & in some cases untruthful statements that come out of SCC regarding its heritage proposals. Our local politicians are experts at telling us tales, perhaps they think we are all stupid?

Just once in a while it would be nice to be told the truth being as we pay for this stuff as taxpayers. The current strike action at SCC has been ramped up by spin & deceipt (on both sides) so they should all grow up & behave like adults & set an example as to what it means to provide a service to the public with honesty & integrity. Take note Royston!

On a positive note SCC has done a great job at Tudor House Museum which re-opened last weekend proving that it can be done well. This museum is not free but it is good value for money & as we the taxpayers of Southampton have paid for a large part of it, we should all pay it a visit & expect SCC to make a profit from running it. The profit should be then re-invested back into other heritage projects creating sustainability from within. As I said it is not rocket science.
Those who run City heritage are highly paid & yet dont appear to live in the real world - there is a rather big reccession at present & private sector companies have been going to the wall recently, since at least 2009 actually. With this in mind was it ever realistic for the council to expect any private sector business to take on a service that cannot charge an admission for the Art Gallery & has struggled to make the existing museums pay their way? The city museum at God's House Tower recently had the opening hours reduced to weekends only due to falling visitor numbers, so surely the private sector has done some research of their own & found that making a museum work well & to make a profit is not at all easy in the present economic climate. Instead of employing mostly academics who know a Monet from a Manet we also need people in our heritage department who know about business & economics, profit & loss etc. This is not rocket science. Mr.Hannides is a temporary fixture on the council & in any case is advised by a very large full time staff & so has no excuses for the spin & in some cases untruthful statements that come out of SCC regarding its heritage proposals. Our local politicians are experts at telling us tales, perhaps they think we are all stupid? Just once in a while it would be nice to be told the truth being as we pay for this stuff as taxpayers. The current strike action at SCC has been ramped up by spin & deceipt (on both sides) so they should all grow up & behave like adults & set an example as to what it means to provide a service to the public with honesty & integrity. Take note Royston! On a positive note SCC has done a great job at Tudor House Museum which re-opened last weekend proving that it can be done well. This museum is not free but it is good value for money & as we the taxpayers of Southampton have paid for a large part of it, we should all pay it a visit & expect SCC to make a profit from running it. The profit should be then re-invested back into other heritage projects creating sustainability from within. As I said it is not rocket science. Itchenz

2:16pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Bassett-Mikey says...

That ship stopped off here for a couple of days, went off, then sank - big deal! Our rates have now got to pay for a museum for it. Much better to have given the money to help for heroes, some of whom have given life and limb for you and me! It was all volunteers on the Titanic and what cowards some of them were!

There is no reason at all for Southampton to celebrate this bad bit of history! Dodgy design and build, great class barriers, elitist passengers on the whole, the workers left to drown - forget it!!
That ship stopped off here for a couple of days, went off, then sank - big deal! Our rates have now got to pay for a museum for it. Much better to have given the money to help for heroes, some of whom have given life and limb for you and me! It was all volunteers on the Titanic and what cowards some of them were! There is no reason at all for Southampton to celebrate this bad bit of history! Dodgy design and build, great class barriers, elitist passengers on the whole, the workers left to drown - forget it!! Bassett-Mikey

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