Thousands walk out in strike action

Daily Echo: Council workers on strike at Eastleigh Borough Council Council workers on strike at Eastleigh Borough Council

TENS of thousands of teachers, civil servants, health and local government workers in Hampshire have today walked out in the largest day of industrial unrest since the 1979 Winter of Discontent.

Around two thirds of schools in Hampshire, including nearly all in Southampton, are closed causing major childcare headaches for parents.

Angry public sector workers are manning dozens of picket lines outside council buildings, hospitals, job centres, tax offices and prisons in the dispute over Government plans to make them pay higher pension contributions.

The strikes come after the Government yesterday provoked a fresh clash with unions by announcing plans to cap public sector pay rises to one per cent when a current wage freeze ends.

The scale of the industrial action will cost the Hampshire economy about £10m, according to accountants James Cowper.

City centre roads will be closed at lunchtime, with up to 10,000 union members and supporters expected to march through Southampton for a rally in Guildhall Square, one of the largest protest gatherings in the south. Hundreds will attend a rally in Winchester.

The Trades Union Congress day of action will involve 21 unions. They say that the Government’s planned pension reforms will force workers to pay more and work longer for less.

Unison said that 15,000 of its members in Hampshire and the Isle of Wight would be on strike, with regional secretary Phil Wood saying that there has been “a tide of anger”.

The walkouts were bringing chaos to council services where about one in four staff will not show up for work.

Bin collections were suspended in Southampton while others in the New Forest, Eastleigh, Fareham and Test Valley were disrupted. Many libraries were closing.

Hospitals said that some day surgery and routine appointments had been postponed but they were otherwise running as normal. Job centres were running with skeleton staffing.

Long delays were expected for people ringing into Government and council call centres.

Southampton Airport and the container port said that there would be little disruption from the walkouts by immigration officials, other UK Border Agency staff and port health workers. Unions have warned that untrained staff would be doing passport and security checks.

Cover was also being brought in for striking emergency services staff.

The Government insists that reform of public sector pensions, which includes raising the retirement age to 67 by 2026, is needed to make them more affordable.

What will be affected?

Click the links below to see how the industrial action will impact upon life in Hampshire.

A list of schools that will be closed is also available.


Schools
Coastguard
Councils
Hospitals
Police & Fire
Courts and Prisons
Health services
Job Centre & Tax Offices
Driving Test Centres

Southampton March

Due to the industrial action today, motorists are advised to avoid travelling through the city centre by car during the afternoon.

Some main routes will be closed between 12.15pm and 2.15pm so that those taking part in industrial action or protests can proceed through the city safely.

The road closures will include Houndwell Place, part of Palmerston Road, Pound Tree Road, High Street, Above Bar Street and Guildhall Square.

See the map below for more details.

Comments (111)

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7:26am Wed 30 Nov 11

Huffter says...

Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us.
Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us. Huffter

7:48am Wed 30 Nov 11

AdrianMonk says...

Here's my update:

Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers!

I bet West Quay will be busy today.
Here's my update: Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers! I bet West Quay will be busy today. AdrianMonk

7:52am Wed 30 Nov 11

citychick213 says...

Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it. citychick213

7:57am Wed 30 Nov 11

AdrianMonk says...

citychick213 wrote:
Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Here's my comment:

"Yes I am striking tomorrow" - really?
[quote][p][bold]citychick213[/bold] wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.[/p][/quote]Here's my comment: "Yes I am striking tomorrow" - really? AdrianMonk

7:59am Wed 30 Nov 11

madeupusername says...

The government has an agenda to attack the public sector because they cannot understand that people might be motivated by compassion and a desire to help others. Public sector workers are absolutely right to stand up to a privileged, sanctimonious government who are robbing the poor to pay the rich. Just because pension provision in the low paid private sector is awful doesn't mean that public sector pensions should be siphoned off to dig the country out of its debt problems. It was the kind of short sighted, mercantile greed that this government wants us all to aspire to that got us into so much debt in the first place. The government picked this fight with their unfair treatment of their employees.
The government has an agenda to attack the public sector because they cannot understand that people might be motivated by compassion and a desire to help others. Public sector workers are absolutely right to stand up to a privileged, sanctimonious government who are robbing the poor to pay the rich. Just because pension provision in the low paid private sector is awful doesn't mean that public sector pensions should be siphoned off to dig the country out of its debt problems. It was the kind of short sighted, mercantile greed that this government wants us all to aspire to that got us into so much debt in the first place. The government picked this fight with their unfair treatment of their employees. madeupusername

8:00am Wed 30 Nov 11

Crazywolf says...

Citychick, consider yourself lucky. in the private sector our pensions contributions have gone up and up and our projected pensions down and down.

Because you all work for one employer you can strike. Because we work for thousands we can't, so make the most of it and ensure you get the best deal you can, just like the bankers do.
Citychick, consider yourself lucky. in the private sector our pensions contributions have gone up and up and our projected pensions down and down. Because you all work for one employer you can strike. Because we work for thousands we can't, so make the most of it and ensure you get the best deal you can, just like the bankers do. Crazywolf

8:31am Wed 30 Nov 11

Brusher Mills says...

Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.”
Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.” Brusher Mills

8:43am Wed 30 Nov 11

madeupusername says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.”
The government should be working to make sure that companies like the one you work for make proper provision for pensions. Instead, successive governments have allowed big business to make more profit at the expense of treating their employees well. Just because big companies have been allowed to put profit ahead of people doesn't mean that the public sector should do the same. We'll all pay the price in the long term because there will be a huge amount of pensioner poverty in the end. It will fall to the state to pay to support poor pensioners. A lot of people seem to have missed the fact that teachers do pay in to their pensions every month from their wages and the scheme is massively in surplus - in other words, in the history of the Teachers Pension Scheme, more has been paid in by teachers than has been paid out in pensions. The government have repeatedly refused to value the scheme because they know all this. Instead, they have tried to frame the argument in terms of pitting the private sector against the public sector. This conveniently ignores the fact that poor provision in the private sector is because the government have allowed business to escape any obligation to pay into employee pensions. I think you are cross with the wrong people.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.”[/p][/quote]The government should be working to make sure that companies like the one you work for make proper provision for pensions. Instead, successive governments have allowed big business to make more profit at the expense of treating their employees well. Just because big companies have been allowed to put profit ahead of people doesn't mean that the public sector should do the same. We'll all pay the price in the long term because there will be a huge amount of pensioner poverty in the end. It will fall to the state to pay to support poor pensioners. A lot of people seem to have missed the fact that teachers do pay in to their pensions every month from their wages and the scheme is massively in surplus - in other words, in the history of the Teachers Pension Scheme, more has been paid in by teachers than has been paid out in pensions. The government have repeatedly refused to value the scheme because they know all this. Instead, they have tried to frame the argument in terms of pitting the private sector against the public sector. This conveniently ignores the fact that poor provision in the private sector is because the government have allowed business to escape any obligation to pay into employee pensions. I think you are cross with the wrong people. madeupusername

8:59am Wed 30 Nov 11

MSK says...

People live longer, so the pension pot must be topped up to support this. Pensions designed twenty years ago are no longer fit for purpose. The private sector has adjusted and people have long been told to pay more into their pensions. What makes public sector workers think they are exempt?

And as for the less well paid public sector workers, they are exempt from the changes. Do public sector workers really expect sympathy from the private sector - get real and stop living in the 60's or 70's.
People live longer, so the pension pot must be topped up to support this. Pensions designed twenty years ago are no longer fit for purpose. The private sector has adjusted and people have long been told to pay more into their pensions. What makes public sector workers think they are exempt? And as for the less well paid public sector workers, they are exempt from the changes. Do public sector workers really expect sympathy from the private sector - get real and stop living in the 60's or 70's. MSK

9:17am Wed 30 Nov 11

SotonLad says...

Schools in Soton closed, increase in crime for the day in certain areas?
Schools in Soton closed, increase in crime for the day in certain areas? SotonLad

9:45am Wed 30 Nov 11

james47 says...

here is the problem.

Everybody loves santa. he gives away everything for free and there is no bill.

Nobody loves when dad comes in and says put away your toys and eat your spinach.

Traditionally the public sector expected better pensions, as a quid pro quo for the fact that pay rates were lower than jobs of equivalent responsibility in the private sector. But now (because of Gordon Brown's extravagance) the gap in basic pay is the other way around. So the fact that the state's employees get an effective bonus of about 30 per cent of their salaries in the form of employer pension contributions (paid for by all taxpayers, including those with no employer pension provision whatever) is objectionable on precisely the grounds that Mr McCluskey and the unions seeks to defend his members' privileges: inequity and unfairness.

This day of action is a strike of the haves (the public sector), largely at the expense of the have-nots. Those in the private sector.

ps--If life is so tough in the public sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the private sector and experience how tough the real world actually is.
here is the problem. Everybody loves santa. he gives away everything for free and there is no bill. Nobody loves when dad comes in and says put away your toys and eat your spinach. Traditionally the public sector expected better pensions, as a quid pro quo for the fact that pay rates were lower than jobs of equivalent responsibility in the private sector. But now (because of Gordon Brown's extravagance) the gap in basic pay is the other way around. So the fact that the state's employees get an effective bonus of about 30 per cent of their salaries in the form of employer pension contributions (paid for by all taxpayers, including those with no employer pension provision whatever) is objectionable on precisely the grounds that Mr McCluskey and the unions seeks to defend his members' privileges: inequity and unfairness. This day of action is a strike of the haves (the public sector), largely at the expense of the have-nots. Those in the private sector. ps--If life is so tough in the public sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the private sector and experience how tough the real world actually is. james47

9:55am Wed 30 Nov 11

Linesman says...

Huffter wrote:
Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us.
If you were working in the Public Sector, I wonder what your attitude would be to being expected to work for a longer period and pay considerably more, to receive less for a reduced number of years.

I bet you would not be considering that you were priviledged and accepting it with no complaint.
[quote][p][bold]Huffter[/bold] wrote: Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us.[/p][/quote]If you were working in the Public Sector, I wonder what your attitude would be to being expected to work for a longer period and pay considerably more, to receive less for a reduced number of years. I bet you would not be considering that you were priviledged and accepting it with no complaint. Linesman

10:03am Wed 30 Nov 11

RichardCoughlan says...

AdrianMonk wrote:
Here's my update:

Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers!

I bet West Quay will be busy today.
This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter.
[quote][p][bold]AdrianMonk[/bold] wrote: Here's my update: Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers! I bet West Quay will be busy today.[/p][/quote]This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter. RichardCoughlan

10:07am Wed 30 Nov 11

Shoong says...

RichardCoughlan wrote:
AdrianMonk wrote:
Here's my update:

Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers!

I bet West Quay will be busy today.
This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter.
What's worse?

The 'I'm alright Jack' attitude or riding the gravy train..?

People will sneer - but then they live in the real world.
[quote][p][bold]RichardCoughlan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AdrianMonk[/bold] wrote: Here's my update: Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers! I bet West Quay will be busy today.[/p][/quote]This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter.[/p][/quote]What's worse? The 'I'm alright Jack' attitude or riding the gravy train..? People will sneer - but then they live in the real world. Shoong

10:09am Wed 30 Nov 11

Shoong says...

Eastleigh Borough Council under siege by the looks of it then ;)

Counted 5 at Winch Guildhall this morning at 9 o'clock, 10 at the RHCH.

Must do better.
Eastleigh Borough Council under siege by the looks of it then ;) Counted 5 at Winch Guildhall this morning at 9 o'clock, 10 at the RHCH. Must do better. Shoong

10:16am Wed 30 Nov 11

Carpe Diem says...

Linesman wrote:
Huffter wrote: Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us.
If you were working in the Public Sector, I wonder what your attitude would be to being expected to work for a longer period and pay considerably more, to receive less for a reduced number of years. I bet you would not be considering that you were priviledged and accepting it with no complaint.
That's the situation we are all in. We are all living longer so the pension pot has to stretch further. If you want to maintain the level of pension you expect to receive you have to put more in. Those in private pension schemes have been faced with this since Gordon Brown raided the pension funds. Those in the public sector should face up to reality.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Huffter[/bold] wrote: Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us.[/p][/quote]If you were working in the Public Sector, I wonder what your attitude would be to being expected to work for a longer period and pay considerably more, to receive less for a reduced number of years. I bet you would not be considering that you were priviledged and accepting it with no complaint.[/p][/quote]That's the situation we are all in. We are all living longer so the pension pot has to stretch further. If you want to maintain the level of pension you expect to receive you have to put more in. Those in private pension schemes have been faced with this since Gordon Brown raided the pension funds. Those in the public sector should face up to reality. Carpe Diem

10:17am Wed 30 Nov 11

MR Angrier says...

RichardCoughlan wrote:
AdrianMonk wrote: Here's my update: Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers! I bet West Quay will be busy today.
This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter.
I think you will find this government is just trying to dig us out of the hole left by the LABOUR government....I work in the private sector , I have worked for the same company for 12 years with only 3 pay rises in that period and I have no company pension...But I HAVE A JOB....Public sector workers...Be thankful you have too
[quote][p][bold]RichardCoughlan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AdrianMonk[/bold] wrote: Here's my update: Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers! I bet West Quay will be busy today.[/p][/quote]This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter.[/p][/quote]I think you will find this government is just trying to dig us out of the hole left by the LABOUR government....I work in the private sector , I have worked for the same company for 12 years with only 3 pay rises in that period and I have no company pension...But I HAVE A JOB....Public sector workers...Be thankful you have too MR Angrier

10:22am Wed 30 Nov 11

Brusher Mills says...

madeupusername wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote: Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.”
The government should be working to make sure that companies like the one you work for make proper provision for pensions. Instead, successive governments have allowed big business to make more profit at the expense of treating their employees well. Just because big companies have been allowed to put profit ahead of people doesn't mean that the public sector should do the same. We'll all pay the price in the long term because there will be a huge amount of pensioner poverty in the end. It will fall to the state to pay to support poor pensioners. A lot of people seem to have missed the fact that teachers do pay in to their pensions every month from their wages and the scheme is massively in surplus - in other words, in the history of the Teachers Pension Scheme, more has been paid in by teachers than has been paid out in pensions. The government have repeatedly refused to value the scheme because they know all this. Instead, they have tried to frame the argument in terms of pitting the private sector against the public sector. This conveniently ignores the fact that poor provision in the private sector is because the government have allowed business to escape any obligation to pay into employee pensions. I think you are cross with the wrong people.
Cross with both, private companies have been stiching people up for longer as you say, the public sector people still have a better deal and at the same time they need to get with the times as someone else already mentioned.
[quote][p][bold]madeupusername[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.”[/p][/quote]The government should be working to make sure that companies like the one you work for make proper provision for pensions. Instead, successive governments have allowed big business to make more profit at the expense of treating their employees well. Just because big companies have been allowed to put profit ahead of people doesn't mean that the public sector should do the same. We'll all pay the price in the long term because there will be a huge amount of pensioner poverty in the end. It will fall to the state to pay to support poor pensioners. A lot of people seem to have missed the fact that teachers do pay in to their pensions every month from their wages and the scheme is massively in surplus - in other words, in the history of the Teachers Pension Scheme, more has been paid in by teachers than has been paid out in pensions. The government have repeatedly refused to value the scheme because they know all this. Instead, they have tried to frame the argument in terms of pitting the private sector against the public sector. This conveniently ignores the fact that poor provision in the private sector is because the government have allowed business to escape any obligation to pay into employee pensions. I think you are cross with the wrong people.[/p][/quote]Cross with both, private companies have been stiching people up for longer as you say, the public sector people still have a better deal and at the same time they need to get with the times as someone else already mentioned. Brusher Mills

10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11

spotburst says...

I just read:

"ps--If life is so tough in the public sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the private sector and experience how tough the real world actually is."

I guess you might equally ask:

"ps--If life is so tough in the private sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the public sector and experience how 'utterly fantastic' the real world actually is."

Either way, the solution it seems is:
"if you think you're being treated unjustly and unfarly, DO something about it"

Which is the course that the public sector is justly persuing.
If you're in the private sector and feel aggrieved, DO something about it. When I worked in the private sector I was still a member of an appropriate union - you're legally represented in times of conflict, and even the private sector is 'expected' to act lawfully.

Wise words from madeupusername above. Obviously many subsequent readers have chosen not to understand the reasons for the strike action - and merely use it here to vent their spleen at thier own powerlessless.

People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector? In this 'connected' day and age, I reckon even the aggrieved of the private sector could organsie (legally) a day of action/protest.

In any case, the £35bn in large company tax avoidance would go a long way to making ordinary jobs (public & private sector) less susceptible to 'cuts'.

There are rich clowns running this country - when either the left or the right are in power.
I just read: "ps--If life is so tough in the public sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the private sector and experience how tough the real world actually is." I guess you might equally ask: "ps--If life is so tough in the private sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the public sector and experience how 'utterly fantastic' the real world actually is." Either way, the solution it seems is: "if you think you're being treated unjustly and unfarly, DO something about it" Which is the course that the public sector is justly persuing. If you're in the private sector and feel aggrieved, DO something about it. When I worked in the private sector I was still a member of an appropriate union - you're legally represented in times of conflict, and even the private sector is 'expected' to act lawfully. Wise words from madeupusername above. Obviously many subsequent readers have chosen not to understand the reasons for the strike action - and merely use it here to vent their spleen at thier own powerlessless. People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector? In this 'connected' day and age, I reckon even the aggrieved of the private sector could organsie (legally) a day of action/protest. In any case, the £35bn in large company tax avoidance would go a long way to making ordinary jobs (public & private sector) less susceptible to 'cuts'. There are rich clowns running this country - when either the left or the right are in power. spotburst

11:15am Wed 30 Nov 11

Bagamn says...

I worked for 20 years in the private sector befotre retiring. I paid into a company pension scheme which was based on a percentage of my salary. Gordon Brown pirated this scheme so my pension could have been more. Why should the public sector get a free pension at the expense of the rest of the workers. The MPs are getting a rediculous pension for doing a reasonably short time at Westminster, this too could be cut. The House of Lords is a retirement home for MPs, so get rid of this outdated regime. Savings made in just five minutes.
I worked for 20 years in the private sector befotre retiring. I paid into a company pension scheme which was based on a percentage of my salary. Gordon Brown pirated this scheme so my pension could have been more. Why should the public sector get a free pension at the expense of the rest of the workers. The MPs are getting a rediculous pension for doing a reasonably short time at Westminster, this too could be cut. The House of Lords is a retirement home for MPs, so get rid of this outdated regime. Savings made in just five minutes. Bagamn

11:29am Wed 30 Nov 11

once a saint says...

Wake up and smell the coffee strikers, in the real world we have all suffered and had to make changes to our lives because of the econimc climate we are in. If you are really that unhappy quit your job take early retirement live off the pension us tax payers have built up for you and give someone on the dole who wants to work your job.
Wake up and smell the coffee strikers, in the real world we have all suffered and had to make changes to our lives because of the econimc climate we are in. If you are really that unhappy quit your job take early retirement live off the pension us tax payers have built up for you and give someone on the dole who wants to work your job. once a saint

12:00pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Tiz says...

Do many peolple realise that in Hampshire, if the pension fund was to close now, stop new entrants and all current members stopped paying, there would still be enough in the pension fund to meet all committments? So this is just an excuse for central government to get public sector workers to bail them out.
Consider the fact that a local government worker earning 19500 pa wwill, when retiring get a lump sum of 10k and a yearly pension on 8.5k, not exactly gold plated is it?
Do many peolple realise that in Hampshire, if the pension fund was to close now, stop new entrants and all current members stopped paying, there would still be enough in the pension fund to meet all committments? So this is just an excuse for central government to get public sector workers to bail them out. Consider the fact that a local government worker earning 19500 pa wwill, when retiring get a lump sum of 10k and a yearly pension on 8.5k, not exactly gold plated is it? Tiz

12:12pm Wed 30 Nov 11

peenut81 says...

I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything.....
I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything..... peenut81

12:16pm Wed 30 Nov 11

voiceinthecrowd says...

I FIND IT AMUSING THAT PEOPLE TAKE ON JOBS SUCH AS TEACHERS
then
complain about pay and conditions

There are millions of us who cant strike but just get on with life.

The big unions .. bet their top people aren't striking WHY because they get overpaid now!

As regards two pensions many of us get one its called the State pension.

We saved all our lives.

How many teachers have two or more holidays a year?

Sorry teachers but don't act like sheep think of the cost to all of us
I FIND IT AMUSING THAT PEOPLE TAKE ON JOBS SUCH AS TEACHERS then complain about pay and conditions There are millions of us who cant strike but just get on with life. The big unions .. bet their top people aren't striking WHY because they get overpaid now! As regards two pensions many of us get one its called the State pension. We saved all our lives. How many teachers have two or more holidays a year? Sorry teachers but don't act like sheep think of the cost to all of us voiceinthecrowd

12:19pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!) George4th

12:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

AdrianMonk says...

RichardCoughlan wrote:
AdrianMonk wrote: Here's my update: Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers! I bet West Quay will be busy today.
This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter.
Here's my reply:

My comment reveals the upside to having all these strikers off the roads into London today. It means that while they lose money I get to make more.

If some of these strikers are so hard done by then they should seek alternative employment - it's that simple.
[quote][p][bold]RichardCoughlan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AdrianMonk[/bold] wrote: Here's my update: Journey to work much quicker thanks to the light traffic. Looks like a profitable day ahead - I can bill an extra hour. Cheers! I bet West Quay will be busy today.[/p][/quote]This comment reveals the "I'm all right Jack" attitude of the people who voted in the current government. Profiting by the sufferring of others, sneering and bragging about it typifies the average Tory voter.[/p][/quote]Here's my reply: My comment reveals the upside to having all these strikers off the roads into London today. It means that while they lose money I get to make more. If some of these strikers are so hard done by then they should seek alternative employment - it's that simple. AdrianMonk

12:27pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Lone Ranger. says...

George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well.
.
The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc.
.
The ones that you and others slag off on this site
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well. . The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc. . The ones that you and others slag off on this site Lone Ranger.

12:33pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Hmmm, why were the public sector workers not striking when the tax relief on dividends was scrapped by Gordon Brown? Is it because they only thought it affected the private sector, so they thought they were all right Jack?

Gordon Brown's first Budget attacked all our pensions

This move by Gordon Brown meant that the taxman gained £5bn (just in that year alone, with move each year after of course), but from who?

From all of us of course! This move destroyed our pension system in the UK, it meant that pension deficits ended up much larger, there was much less growth in the good times to cushion us against the bad.

This led many companies to close final salary schemes to new members, and worse. The companies could no longer afford to bear the risk that growth in the undelying pension investments would match the obligations under the final salary schemes. Gordon made final salary schemes unsustainable in uncertain times.

Of course, Gordon Brown believed he had abolished boom and bust, and that he could save the world, which was naive and foolish.

Before 1997, tax-exempt shareholders, such as pension funds and charities, could reclaim the tax paid by the company from the Inland Revenue. So a pension fund that received an £80 dividend would £20 of tax relief from the Treasury.

It was madness for Brown to scrap the relief - it destroyed the financial security of us and our families for our old age.

Treasury documents released show civil servants were concerned the move would cost savers billions and provoke a public outcry.

Not enough people realise who exactly is to blame for this disaster.

So, having watched union funded Labour destroy the returns that made finaly salary private sector pensions viable, why do the strikers think the private sector workers who make the money to pay their final salary pensions through their taxes will have any sympathy for them?

The truth is that many of the private sector workers would gladly see the public sector pensions completely lose any final salary element. What goes around comes around.

Labour and the unions need to realise it is the taxpayer who fund them, and their unions, and their generous public sector pay, conditions, and pensions.

The taxpayer, having seen all the money wasted by the last labour government, wants to see cuts, and see taxes fall to get growth back into the economy.

The public sector will be a lot smaller before ten years has passed, whatever government is in power.
Hmmm, why were the public sector workers not striking when the tax relief on dividends was scrapped by Gordon Brown? Is it because they only thought it affected the private sector, so they thought they were all right Jack? Gordon Brown's first Budget attacked all our pensions This move by Gordon Brown meant that the taxman gained £5bn (just in that year alone, with move each year after of course), but from who? From all of us of course! This move destroyed our pension system in the UK, it meant that pension deficits ended up much larger, there was much less growth in the good times to cushion us against the bad. This led many companies to close final salary schemes to new members, and worse. The companies could no longer afford to bear the risk that growth in the undelying pension investments would match the obligations under the final salary schemes. Gordon made final salary schemes unsustainable in uncertain times. Of course, Gordon Brown believed he had abolished boom and bust, and that he could save the world, which was naive and foolish. Before 1997, tax-exempt shareholders, such as pension funds and charities, could reclaim the tax paid by the company from the Inland Revenue. So a pension fund that received an £80 dividend would £20 of tax relief from the Treasury. It was madness for Brown to scrap the relief - it destroyed the financial security of us and our families for our old age. Treasury documents released show civil servants were concerned the move would cost savers billions and provoke a public outcry. Not enough people realise who exactly is to blame for this disaster. So, having watched union funded Labour destroy the returns that made finaly salary private sector pensions viable, why do the strikers think the private sector workers who make the money to pay their final salary pensions through their taxes will have any sympathy for them? The truth is that many of the private sector workers would gladly see the public sector pensions completely lose any final salary element. What goes around comes around. Labour and the unions need to realise it is the taxpayer who fund them, and their unions, and their generous public sector pay, conditions, and pensions. The taxpayer, having seen all the money wasted by the last labour government, wants to see cuts, and see taxes fall to get growth back into the economy. The public sector will be a lot smaller before ten years has passed, whatever government is in power. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:34pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well.
.
The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc.
.
The ones that you and others slag off on this site
Try reading my comment again!
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well. . The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc. . The ones that you and others slag off on this site[/p][/quote]Try reading my comment again! George4th

12:37pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Lone Ranger. says...

George4th wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well.
.
The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc.
.
The ones that you and others slag off on this site
Try reading my comment again!
Try reading mine
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well. . The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc. . The ones that you and others slag off on this site[/p][/quote]Try reading my comment again![/p][/quote]Try reading mine Lone Ranger.

12:41pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well.
.
The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc.
.
The ones that you and others slag off on this site
Try reading my comment again!
Try reading mine
How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?! Sounds a bit like Ed Balls!
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well. . The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc. . The ones that you and others slag off on this site[/p][/quote]Try reading my comment again![/p][/quote]Try reading mine[/p][/quote]How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?! Sounds a bit like Ed Balls! George4th

12:42pm Wed 30 Nov 11

loosehead says...

citychick213 wrote:
Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job,
Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get.
Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better,
If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?
[quote][p][bold]citychick213[/bold] wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.[/p][/quote]Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you? loosehead

12:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well.
.
The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc.
.
The ones that you and others slag off on this site
Try reading my comment again!
Try reading mine
How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?!
Sounds a bit like Ed Balls
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well. . The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc. . The ones that you and others slag off on this site[/p][/quote]Try reading my comment again![/p][/quote]Try reading mine[/p][/quote]How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?! Sounds a bit like Ed Balls George4th

12:51pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

"spotburst says...
10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11

People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?"

That is hilarious.

There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth

and the public sector that SPENDS wealth

I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was.

That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions.

If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work.

We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more

Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice.

It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful.

Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work?

Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence?

Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties.

There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies.

People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty

(Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ )
"spotburst says... 10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11 People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?" That is hilarious. There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth and the public sector that SPENDS wealth I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was. That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions. If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work. We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice. It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful. Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work? Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence? Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties. There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies. People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty (Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ ) Sotonians_lets_pull_together

12:53pm Wed 30 Nov 11

loosehead says...

peenut81 wrote:
I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything.....
I don't support the strikers as they ( unions) openly admit that 2out of4 groups were close to a deal with the government so why strike?
But I do agree with the rest of your post.
Ed Milliband stood up in the TUC & told them not to strike but to talk/negotiate as if it was a Labour government in power they to would be changing the public sector pensions the TUC booed a Labour leader that they voted in against the wishes of Labour party members
[quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything.....[/p][/quote]I don't support the strikers as they ( unions) openly admit that 2out of4 groups were close to a deal with the government so why strike? But I do agree with the rest of your post. Ed Milliband stood up in the TUC & told them not to strike but to talk/negotiate as if it was a Labour government in power they to would be changing the public sector pensions the TUC booed a Labour leader that they voted in against the wishes of Labour party members loosehead

1:10pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Lone Ranger. says...

George4th wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well.
.
The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc.
.
The ones that you and others slag off on this site
Try reading my comment again!
Try reading mine
How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?!
Sounds a bit like Ed Balls
What ????.
.
Actually yours sound like Total Balls.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well. . The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc. . The ones that you and others slag off on this site[/p][/quote]Try reading my comment again![/p][/quote]Try reading mine[/p][/quote]How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?! Sounds a bit like Ed Balls[/p][/quote]What ????. . Actually yours sound like Total Balls. Lone Ranger.

1:17pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
"spotburst says...
10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11

People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?"

That is hilarious.

There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth

and the public sector that SPENDS wealth

I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was.

That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions.

If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work.

We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more

Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice.

It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful.

Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work?

Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence?

Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties.

There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies.

People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty

(Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ )
A well written comment. I agree.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: "spotburst says... 10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11 People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?" That is hilarious. There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth and the public sector that SPENDS wealth I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was. That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions. If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work. We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice. It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful. Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work? Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence? Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties. There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies. People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty (Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ )[/p][/quote]A well written comment. I agree. George4th

1:20pm Wed 30 Nov 11

rf199 says...

voiceinthecrowd wrote:
I FIND IT AMUSING THAT PEOPLE TAKE ON JOBS SUCH AS TEACHERS then complain about pay and conditions There are millions of us who cant strike but just get on with life. The big unions .. bet their top people aren't striking WHY because they get overpaid now! As regards two pensions many of us get one its called the State pension. We saved all our lives. How many teachers have two or more holidays a year? Sorry teachers but don't act like sheep think of the cost to all of us
I FIND IT AMUSING THAT YOUR POST CLEARLY SHOWS HOW YOU MISS THE POINT.

Teachers, and others, have taken on such jobs knowing and ACCEPTING the pay and conditions. What they are fighting for is the fact that the pay and conditions that they joined under are now going to be changed.
[quote][p][bold]voiceinthecrowd[/bold] wrote: I FIND IT AMUSING THAT PEOPLE TAKE ON JOBS SUCH AS TEACHERS then complain about pay and conditions There are millions of us who cant strike but just get on with life. The big unions .. bet their top people aren't striking WHY because they get overpaid now! As regards two pensions many of us get one its called the State pension. We saved all our lives. How many teachers have two or more holidays a year? Sorry teachers but don't act like sheep think of the cost to all of us[/p][/quote]I FIND IT AMUSING THAT YOUR POST CLEARLY SHOWS HOW YOU MISS THE POINT. Teachers, and others, have taken on such jobs knowing and ACCEPTING the pay and conditions. What they are fighting for is the fact that the pay and conditions that they joined under are now going to be changed. rf199

1:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Dusty says...

Shoong wrote:
Eastleigh Borough Council under siege by the looks of it then ;)

Counted 5 at Winch Guildhall this morning at 9 o'clock, 10 at the RHCH.

Must do better.
Only six people are aloud to picked. The proof is in the pudding 90% of staff at the hedge end depot. Agency and a few non union staff working in waste collections. Major disruptions to waste rounds.
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: Eastleigh Borough Council under siege by the looks of it then ;) Counted 5 at Winch Guildhall this morning at 9 o'clock, 10 at the RHCH. Must do better.[/p][/quote]Only six people are aloud to picked. The proof is in the pudding 90% of staff at the hedge end depot. Agency and a few non union staff working in waste collections. Major disruptions to waste rounds. Dusty

1:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Dusty says...

Shoong wrote:
Eastleigh Borough Council under siege by the looks of it then ;)

Counted 5 at Winch Guildhall this morning at 9 o'clock, 10 at the RHCH.

Must do better.
Only six people are aloud to picked. The proof is in the pudding 90% of staff at the hedge end depot. Agency and a few non union staff working in waste collections. Major disruptions to waste rounds.
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: Eastleigh Borough Council under siege by the looks of it then ;) Counted 5 at Winch Guildhall this morning at 9 o'clock, 10 at the RHCH. Must do better.[/p][/quote]Only six people are aloud to picked. The proof is in the pudding 90% of staff at the hedge end depot. Agency and a few non union staff working in waste collections. Major disruptions to waste rounds. Dusty

1:22pm Wed 30 Nov 11

waltons11 says...

loosehead wrote:
citychick213 wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?
I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy??
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]citychick213[/bold] wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.[/p][/quote]Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?[/p][/quote]I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy?? waltons11

1:23pm Wed 30 Nov 11

rf199 says...

voiceinthecrowd wrote:
I FIND IT AMUSING THAT PEOPLE TAKE ON JOBS SUCH AS TEACHERS then complain about pay and conditions There are millions of us who cant strike but just get on with life. The big unions .. bet their top people aren't striking WHY because they get overpaid now! As regards two pensions many of us get one its called the State pension. We saved all our lives. How many teachers have two or more holidays a year? Sorry teachers but don't act like sheep think of the cost to all of us
I FIND IT AMUSING THAT YOUR POST SHOWS HOW YOU CLEARLY MISS THE POINT.

Teachers, and others, have taken on these jobs knowing and ACCEPTING the pay and conditions. The reason they are fighting is because the pay and conditions they joined under are going to be changed.
[quote][p][bold]voiceinthecrowd[/bold] wrote: I FIND IT AMUSING THAT PEOPLE TAKE ON JOBS SUCH AS TEACHERS then complain about pay and conditions There are millions of us who cant strike but just get on with life. The big unions .. bet their top people aren't striking WHY because they get overpaid now! As regards two pensions many of us get one its called the State pension. We saved all our lives. How many teachers have two or more holidays a year? Sorry teachers but don't act like sheep think of the cost to all of us[/p][/quote]I FIND IT AMUSING THAT YOUR POST SHOWS HOW YOU CLEARLY MISS THE POINT. Teachers, and others, have taken on these jobs knowing and ACCEPTING the pay and conditions. The reason they are fighting is because the pay and conditions they joined under are going to be changed. rf199

1:26pm Wed 30 Nov 11

HerbertC says...

As someone who worked for multinational private companies for 23 years and now in the public sector for 2 years, I can see both sides here.

I think it's very easy for private sector employees to criticize public sector pensions without bothering to find out the facts. My private pension was cut from final salary to money purchase and there was hardly any fuss from employees (not organised enough). It's very easy to follow the line that pensions, esp final salary are unaffordable now. That may be the case for some smaller companies, but for many larger companies they're still eminently affordable - except the companies choose to use the money elsewhere. Like massive pay rises and perks for the senior management (see recent reports). Also, many private schemes had long contribution holidays and then subsequently claimed that the final salary schemes were no longer affordable.

Don't forget that there was a major review of public sector pensions 3 years ago which led them to be suitably funded for the foreseeable future, including bringing in career average schemes, which I'm in.

Very easy for private sector people to make sweeping judgements without finding out facts. Just because private schemes are being decimated (in many cases with little actual justification apart from the employers being able to get away with it) doesn't mean everyone should work to the lowest possible denominator.
As someone who worked for multinational private companies for 23 years and now in the public sector for 2 years, I can see both sides here. I think it's very easy for private sector employees to criticize public sector pensions without bothering to find out the facts. My private pension was cut from final salary to money purchase and there was hardly any fuss from employees (not organised enough). It's very easy to follow the line that pensions, esp final salary are unaffordable now. That may be the case for some smaller companies, but for many larger companies they're still eminently affordable - except the companies choose to use the money elsewhere. Like massive pay rises and perks for the senior management (see recent reports). Also, many private schemes had long contribution holidays and then subsequently claimed that the final salary schemes were no longer affordable. Don't forget that there was a major review of public sector pensions 3 years ago which led them to be suitably funded for the foreseeable future, including bringing in career average schemes, which I'm in. Very easy for private sector people to make sweeping judgements without finding out facts. Just because private schemes are being decimated (in many cases with little actual justification apart from the employers being able to get away with it) doesn't mean everyone should work to the lowest possible denominator. HerbertC

1:44pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well.
.
The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc.
.
The ones that you and others slag off on this site
Try reading my comment again!
Try reading mine
How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?!
Sounds a bit like Ed Balls
What ????.
.
Actually yours sound like Total Balls.
Yawn!
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]But its the Public sector that will keep them alive and well. . The ones that work in Hospitals, Police, Ambulance, fFre, Armed Forces, Social workers, etc etc. . The ones that you and others slag off on this site[/p][/quote]Try reading my comment again![/p][/quote]Try reading mine[/p][/quote]How come every time I post first, and you answer, you demand that I answer you first?! Sounds a bit like Ed Balls[/p][/quote]What ????. . Actually yours sound like Total Balls.[/p][/quote]Yawn! George4th

1:55pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Stupideditor says...

MSK wrote:
People live longer, so the pension pot must be topped up to support this. Pensions designed twenty years ago are no longer fit for purpose. The private sector has adjusted and people have long been told to pay more into their pensions. What makes public sector workers think they are exempt?

And as for the less well paid public sector workers, they are exempt from the changes. Do public sector workers really expect sympathy from the private sector - get real and stop living in the 60's or 70's.
The current pention offer is by no means a realistic reflection for all public sector workers. As my neighbour commented to me yesterday. There is no way they will be able to work beyond 60 yet alone at the
Age of 67 for the ambulance service with british people getting lazier and fatter, plus the general abuse of the ambulance service and front line staff, many of which suffer with bad backs and various levels of mental illness. I applaude their actions..
[quote][p][bold]MSK[/bold] wrote: People live longer, so the pension pot must be topped up to support this. Pensions designed twenty years ago are no longer fit for purpose. The private sector has adjusted and people have long been told to pay more into their pensions. What makes public sector workers think they are exempt? And as for the less well paid public sector workers, they are exempt from the changes. Do public sector workers really expect sympathy from the private sector - get real and stop living in the 60's or 70's.[/p][/quote]The current pention offer is by no means a realistic reflection for all public sector workers. As my neighbour commented to me yesterday. There is no way they will be able to work beyond 60 yet alone at the Age of 67 for the ambulance service with british people getting lazier and fatter, plus the general abuse of the ambulance service and front line staff, many of which suffer with bad backs and various levels of mental illness. I applaude their actions.. Stupideditor

1:55pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Stupideditor says...

MSK wrote:
People live longer, so the pension pot must be topped up to support this. Pensions designed twenty years ago are no longer fit for purpose. The private sector has adjusted and people have long been told to pay more into their pensions. What makes public sector workers think they are exempt?

And as for the less well paid public sector workers, they are exempt from the changes. Do public sector workers really expect sympathy from the private sector - get real and stop living in the 60's or 70's.
The current pention offer is by no means a realistic reflection for all public sector workers. As my neighbour commented to me yesterday. There is no way they will be able to work beyond 60 yet alone at the
Age of 67 for the ambulance service with british people getting lazier and fatter, plus the general abuse of the ambulance service and front line staff, many of which suffer with bad backs and various levels of mental illness. I applaude their actions..
[quote][p][bold]MSK[/bold] wrote: People live longer, so the pension pot must be topped up to support this. Pensions designed twenty years ago are no longer fit for purpose. The private sector has adjusted and people have long been told to pay more into their pensions. What makes public sector workers think they are exempt? And as for the less well paid public sector workers, they are exempt from the changes. Do public sector workers really expect sympathy from the private sector - get real and stop living in the 60's or 70's.[/p][/quote]The current pention offer is by no means a realistic reflection for all public sector workers. As my neighbour commented to me yesterday. There is no way they will be able to work beyond 60 yet alone at the Age of 67 for the ambulance service with british people getting lazier and fatter, plus the general abuse of the ambulance service and front line staff, many of which suffer with bad backs and various levels of mental illness. I applaude their actions.. Stupideditor

2:00pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Shoong says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
"spotburst says...
10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11

People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?"

That is hilarious.

There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth

and the public sector that SPENDS wealth

I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was.

That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions.

If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work.

We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more

Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice.

It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful.

Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work?

Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence?

Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties.

There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies.

People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty

(Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ )
Excellent post.

The poor / poverty argument is truly laughable.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: "spotburst says... 10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11 People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?" That is hilarious. There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth and the public sector that SPENDS wealth I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was. That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions. If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work. We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice. It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful. Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work? Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence? Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties. There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies. People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty (Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ )[/p][/quote]Excellent post. The poor / poverty argument is truly laughable. Shoong

2:02pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

HerbertC,

I am also massively against the policies which back before 1997 allowed companies to take pension holidays in the good times, leaving no surpluses to help carry through the bad times.

Previous governments have been too keen to allow businesses to erode pension funds or to remove tax breaks which make them viable.

Of course I dont want to see a race for the bottom on pensions, but we are where we are.

Yes, a few top bosses could do with their pay and perks being reduced, particularly where they are public companies, but that isnt the real issue. Business owners can pay themselves what they like, and it is up to shareholders to hold them to account.

The real issue is for the millions of people in the private sector and public sector on average salaries.

The previous labour government left us with a huge deficit, and encouraged an environment which left ordinary taxpayers in a lot of personal debt.

Now the economy is in a hole, we cant just keep doling out money to the public sector because people want it. We can only pay out what we can afford.

As for the private sector, there is no realistic chance of getting pensions back to where they were without having a long period of growth and reinstating tax breaks on dividends, both of which are pretty unlikely I would suggest, in the current economic climate.

The private sector workforce will have no appetite for funding perks for the public sector which it cannot afford to give to its own workforce.
HerbertC, I am also massively against the policies which back before 1997 allowed companies to take pension holidays in the good times, leaving no surpluses to help carry through the bad times. Previous governments have been too keen to allow businesses to erode pension funds or to remove tax breaks which make them viable. Of course I dont want to see a race for the bottom on pensions, but we are where we are. Yes, a few top bosses could do with their pay and perks being reduced, particularly where they are public companies, but that isnt the real issue. Business owners can pay themselves what they like, and it is up to shareholders to hold them to account. The real issue is for the millions of people in the private sector and public sector on average salaries. The previous labour government left us with a huge deficit, and encouraged an environment which left ordinary taxpayers in a lot of personal debt. Now the economy is in a hole, we cant just keep doling out money to the public sector because people want it. We can only pay out what we can afford. As for the private sector, there is no realistic chance of getting pensions back to where they were without having a long period of growth and reinstating tax breaks on dividends, both of which are pretty unlikely I would suggest, in the current economic climate. The private sector workforce will have no appetite for funding perks for the public sector which it cannot afford to give to its own workforce. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

2:24pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Goldenwight says...

According to the BBC, there are no delays on immigration desks. Quite possibly true, but if you happened to get off a ferry in Portsmouth and wanted to get out of the city by road the Unions made sure you would be delayed anyway.

The strike is one thing, but blocking off our city centres is quite another and does not attract any sympathy from me.
According to the BBC, there are no delays on immigration desks. Quite possibly true, but if you happened to get off a ferry in Portsmouth and wanted to get out of the city by road the Unions made sure you would be delayed anyway. The strike is one thing, but blocking off our city centres is quite another and does not attract any sympathy from me. Goldenwight

2:59pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Brock_and_Roll says...

I would never deny a man's right to withold his labour, however, the current strike will ultimately prove counter-productive.

Whilst some public servants are lowly paid, so are plenty of people in the private sector.

A public sector worker on 19k a year will still get a final-salary pension of 43% - this is something that their equally "low paid" counterparts in the private sector can only dream about. In many cases low paid private sector workers may not have much in the way of a pension provision at all - and what provision they do have will be open to market fluctuations.
I would never deny a man's right to withold his labour, however, the current strike will ultimately prove counter-productive. Whilst some public servants are lowly paid, so are plenty of people in the private sector. A public sector worker on 19k a year will still get a final-salary pension of 43% - this is something that their equally "low paid" counterparts in the private sector can only dream about. In many cases low paid private sector workers may not have much in the way of a pension provision at all - and what provision they do have will be open to market fluctuations. Brock_and_Roll

3:17pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Keith Oftergrass says...

The old argument that Pensions etc. in the Public Sector were to make up for poor wages no longer applies ! Public Sector wage increases have clearly surpassed the Private Sector for years and therefore the excesses in terms of retirement age and value are not necessary to encourage Public Sector employment. People are now taking these jobs for the easy life with nonoe of the pressures and uncertainty of having the be profitable and efficient. It's high time these people realised the gravy days are over for the Public Sector and knuckled down to the 'real world' work ethic.
The old argument that Pensions etc. in the Public Sector were to make up for poor wages no longer applies ! Public Sector wage increases have clearly surpassed the Private Sector for years and therefore the excesses in terms of retirement age and value are not necessary to encourage Public Sector employment. People are now taking these jobs for the easy life with nonoe of the pressures and uncertainty of having the be profitable and efficient. It's high time these people realised the gravy days are over for the Public Sector and knuckled down to the 'real world' work ethic. Keith Oftergrass

3:32pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Good to see that the strike has had no impact other than to boost trade for the retail sector as parents and "strikers" do some christmas shopping and visit the cafes.

Reminds me of the train strikes which always seemed to happen during BBQ season....
Good to see that the strike has had no impact other than to boost trade for the retail sector as parents and "strikers" do some christmas shopping and visit the cafes. Reminds me of the train strikes which always seemed to happen during BBQ season.... Sotonians_lets_pull_together

3:48pm Wed 30 Nov 11

loosehead says...

waltons11 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
citychick213 wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?
I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy??
They have said the low paid public sector workers won't be touched do you fall into this category? also isn't your pension a final salary pension? which is a lot more than £4485 isn't it? also an average of your pay which you state is £24k is a lot more than £4485 so exactly what is that figure? the amount you'll be paying in or your pension? so exactly what is your actual pension before state pension? I mean the actual amount you earn with this free/paid for pension? because I can't believe with a full working life pension with the figures you've paid/quoted would leave you with a pension pay out of £4485 as I get an average pay pension & put in £38,000 which would be rather the same as your payment over the same time & I get considerably more than that.
Please watch the BBC today a rep from a teachers union stated that a new improved offer that they haven't even looked at is on the table yet they still called you out on strike surely they should have looked at it then decided not just go ahead anyway shouldn't they?
[quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]citychick213[/bold] wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.[/p][/quote]Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?[/p][/quote]I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy??[/p][/quote]They have said the low paid public sector workers won't be touched do you fall into this category? also isn't your pension a final salary pension? which is a lot more than £4485 isn't it? also an average of your pay which you state is £24k is a lot more than £4485 so exactly what is that figure? the amount you'll be paying in or your pension? so exactly what is your actual pension before state pension? I mean the actual amount you earn with this free/paid for pension? because I can't believe with a full working life pension with the figures you've paid/quoted would leave you with a pension pay out of £4485 as I get an average pay pension & put in £38,000 which would be rather the same as your payment over the same time & I get considerably more than that. Please watch the BBC today a rep from a teachers union stated that a new improved offer that they haven't even looked at is on the table yet they still called you out on strike surely they should have looked at it then decided not just go ahead anyway shouldn't they? loosehead

4:05pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Bowmore says...

loosehead wrote:
citychick213 wrote:
Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job,
Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get.
Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better,
If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?
loosehead wrote:Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get.


I don't think there are many public sector pensions funds that would pay a pension of £15000 after only 25 years, except perhaps MPs and CEOs. As a civil servant it will take me over 40 years to get a similar sized pension.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]citychick213[/bold] wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.[/p][/quote]Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?[/p][/quote][quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get.[/p][/quote] I don't think there are many public sector pensions funds that would pay a pension of £15000 after only 25 years, except perhaps MPs and CEOs. As a civil servant it will take me over 40 years to get a similar sized pension. Bowmore

4:08pm Wed 30 Nov 11

waltons11 says...

loosehead wrote:
waltons11 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
citychick213 wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?
I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy??
They have said the low paid public sector workers won't be touched do you fall into this category? also isn't your pension a final salary pension? which is a lot more than £4485 isn't it? also an average of your pay which you state is £24k is a lot more than £4485 so exactly what is that figure? the amount you'll be paying in or your pension? so exactly what is your actual pension before state pension? I mean the actual amount you earn with this free/paid for pension? because I can't believe with a full working life pension with the figures you've paid/quoted would leave you with a pension pay out of £4485 as I get an average pay pension & put in £38,000 which would be rather the same as your payment over the same time & I get considerably more than that. Please watch the BBC today a rep from a teachers union stated that a new improved offer that they haven't even looked at is on the table yet they still called you out on strike surely they should have looked at it then decided not just go ahead anyway shouldn't they?
The figures I quoted are directly from my pension statement received in April, and no I am not on a final salary pension, and many that work with me are not, this is yet another fallacy put about by the media. I did not strike actually as I cannot afford to lose the money, and I do not agree with the way the Unions have approached this, by not looking at all the offers etc. I feel they are just striking for the sake of it now.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]citychick213[/bold] wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.[/p][/quote]Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?[/p][/quote]I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy??[/p][/quote]They have said the low paid public sector workers won't be touched do you fall into this category? also isn't your pension a final salary pension? which is a lot more than £4485 isn't it? also an average of your pay which you state is £24k is a lot more than £4485 so exactly what is that figure? the amount you'll be paying in or your pension? so exactly what is your actual pension before state pension? I mean the actual amount you earn with this free/paid for pension? because I can't believe with a full working life pension with the figures you've paid/quoted would leave you with a pension pay out of £4485 as I get an average pay pension & put in £38,000 which would be rather the same as your payment over the same time & I get considerably more than that. Please watch the BBC today a rep from a teachers union stated that a new improved offer that they haven't even looked at is on the table yet they still called you out on strike surely they should have looked at it then decided not just go ahead anyway shouldn't they?[/p][/quote]The figures I quoted are directly from my pension statement received in April, and no I am not on a final salary pension, and many that work with me are not, this is yet another fallacy put about by the media. I did not strike actually as I cannot afford to lose the money, and I do not agree with the way the Unions have approached this, by not looking at all the offers etc. I feel they are just striking for the sake of it now. waltons11

4:10pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Paramjit Bahia says...

Interesting how the establishment has got private sector workers attacking workers in public sector. With both groups at the throats of each other hardly anybody is talking about the real culprits who first caused these crises, and then were given billions from public fund by both last and the current governments
.
So who is the real winner apart from the establishment and its super rich friends?
.
People should have listened to Cameron when in his sophisticated political lingo he said “We are in it together”, which translated in ordinary English means ‘You the working people are in it together’ and ‘We are going to screw you even more than Blair and Brown put together’
.
Wake up people; stop behaving like the characters in ‘Life of Bryan’. Stop attacking fellow workers and go after the real culprits, which are the privileged few on the top whose incomes and total wealth has kept on increasing under both this ConDem Coalition and during the misrule of Blair and Brown’.
.
Grass root members of the unions should also start exercising their rights and demand from their elected leaders that they should serve you, who are in fact their pay masters. Most of those highly paid people are while doing the right thing by recommending industrial actions, are also at the same time exploiting the situation for promoting Milliband brand of closet Conservatism on your backs and with your money
.
Whatever fake lip service Millband paid to dinner ladies during PMQs today, both he, Ed Balls and others from their Conservatised Labour, have this week on channel 4 refused to back genuine and legal day of action by public sector workers. Thus stabbing workers in the back
.
Here in Southampton closet right wing Conservative leader of Labour and his colleagues have NOT backed genuine industrial action, and has made it clear that they too will make more cuts and destroy jobs and work conditions
.
Only answer to genuine grievances of ALL the workers (public private or self employed) is to unite and challenge whole of the establishment dominated by unprincipled and morally bankrupt political class through democratic and peaceful means
.
If Mahatma Gandhi could take on the whole might of British Empire and win, you ALL THE WORKERS if united can at least secure some decent life for yourself and your families from these toothless tigers -- like Cameron Clegg and Millband etc-- of today
Interesting how the establishment has got private sector workers attacking workers in public sector. With both groups at the throats of each other hardly anybody is talking about the real culprits who first caused these crises, and then were given billions from public fund by both last and the current governments . So who is the real winner apart from the establishment and its super rich friends? . People should have listened to Cameron when in his sophisticated political lingo he said “We are in it together”, which translated in ordinary English means ‘You the working people are in it together’ and ‘We are going to screw you even more than Blair and Brown put together’ . Wake up people; stop behaving like the characters in ‘Life of Bryan’. Stop attacking fellow workers and go after the real culprits, which are the privileged few on the top whose incomes and total wealth has kept on increasing under both this ConDem Coalition and during the misrule of Blair and Brown’. . Grass root members of the unions should also start exercising their rights and demand from their elected leaders that they should serve you, who are in fact their pay masters. Most of those highly paid people are while doing the right thing by recommending industrial actions, are also at the same time exploiting the situation for promoting Milliband brand of closet Conservatism on your backs and with your money . Whatever fake lip service Millband paid to dinner ladies during PMQs today, both he, Ed Balls and others from their Conservatised Labour, have this week on channel 4 refused to back genuine and legal day of action by public sector workers. Thus stabbing workers in the back . Here in Southampton closet right wing Conservative leader of Labour and his colleagues have NOT backed genuine industrial action, and has made it clear that they too will make more cuts and destroy jobs and work conditions . Only answer to genuine grievances of ALL the workers (public private or self employed) is to unite and challenge whole of the establishment dominated by unprincipled and morally bankrupt political class through democratic and peaceful means . If Mahatma Gandhi could take on the whole might of British Empire and win, you ALL THE WORKERS if united can at least secure some decent life for yourself and your families from these toothless tigers -- like Cameron Clegg and Millband etc-- of today Paramjit Bahia

4:12pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Normal Guy says...

As a Public sector worker with a pension I would gladly give it up for a guarantee that all pensions were protected and provision was made for all people in their old age. Why because my family and friends are not in any pension scheme and taking more away from the meagre provision that this country has for its elderly is simply adding fuel to the pensions time bomb. I also feel very angry that private pensions (including one that I had) have been robbed out. The governments faith in the gambling dens of the stock market has been well and truly debunked. Stealing from tomorrows pensioners to pay for todays bank bonuses is simply unfair. Ignoring the terrible situation in the private sector is disasterous and I don't think pitting private sector workers against public sector workers is a responsible governments response, to me it seems like a hysterical attempt to distract people from the real issue. Why have governments (regardless of the colour of their rosette) allowed pensions to be raided and what are they going to do to put it right. This is a much bigger issue than higher contributions, working longer and getting less it will determine whether we face abject poverty in old age or just poverty. I can see the only way to resolve this mess is to look at going back to some kind of decent independent regulated state backed pension scheme. The private sector can not be trusted with our pensions and it would appear neither can the government.
Maybe we should all invest in uk bonds instead, but are they guaranteed?
As a Public sector worker with a pension I would gladly give it up for a guarantee that all pensions were protected and provision was made for all people in their old age. Why because my family and friends are not in any pension scheme and taking more away from the meagre provision that this country has for its elderly is simply adding fuel to the pensions time bomb. I also feel very angry that private pensions (including one that I had) have been robbed out. The governments faith in the gambling dens of the stock market has been well and truly debunked. Stealing from tomorrows pensioners to pay for todays bank bonuses is simply unfair. Ignoring the terrible situation in the private sector is disasterous and I don't think pitting private sector workers against public sector workers is a responsible governments response, to me it seems like a hysterical attempt to distract people from the real issue. Why have governments (regardless of the colour of their rosette) allowed pensions to be raided and what are they going to do to put it right. This is a much bigger issue than higher contributions, working longer and getting less it will determine whether we face abject poverty in old age or just poverty. I can see the only way to resolve this mess is to look at going back to some kind of decent independent regulated state backed pension scheme. The private sector can not be trusted with our pensions and it would appear neither can the government. Maybe we should all invest in uk bonds instead, but are they guaranteed? Normal Guy

4:20pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Paramjit,

The truth is that it IS all about the ordinary private sector wealth creators being expected to fund through their taxes pay and conditions for public sector workers which they do not get themselves.

You can fuss all you like about a few rich people about the top, whatever the system, there are always a few rich people at the top, and they will always be rich enough to go somewhere else if you try and penalise them too much. Those super rich few are not numerically that significant.

The reality is that it is the bulk of people on average private sector salaries that pay the bulk of taxes, for the good reason that they are the most numerous.

These ordinary private sector people are the employers of the public sector workers, and WE are telling YOU that we cannot afford to pay as much as we were before, and the public sector is going to face job cuts, losses of services, and drops in pay and conditions, like it or lump it.

That is why so many polls are showing that there is not as much support for the strikes that you would hope for, and most conducted today seem to show a majority of people are against the strikes, with the majority being massive if you look particularly at the private sector work force who you are expecting to reach into their pockets yet again.

Let us tell you, those pockets are empty. The well has run dry. Easy street has been closed until further notice. The gravy train has been derailed.
Paramjit, The truth is that it IS all about the ordinary private sector wealth creators being expected to fund through their taxes pay and conditions for public sector workers which they do not get themselves. You can fuss all you like about a few rich people about the top, whatever the system, there are always a few rich people at the top, and they will always be rich enough to go somewhere else if you try and penalise them too much. Those super rich few are not numerically that significant. The reality is that it is the bulk of people on average private sector salaries that pay the bulk of taxes, for the good reason that they are the most numerous. These ordinary private sector people are the employers of the public sector workers, and WE are telling YOU that we cannot afford to pay as much as we were before, and the public sector is going to face job cuts, losses of services, and drops in pay and conditions, like it or lump it. That is why so many polls are showing that there is not as much support for the strikes that you would hope for, and most conducted today seem to show a majority of people are against the strikes, with the majority being massive if you look particularly at the private sector work force who you are expecting to reach into their pockets yet again. Let us tell you, those pockets are empty. The well has run dry. Easy street has been closed until further notice. The gravy train has been derailed. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

4:25pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Normal Guy,

Dont forget it was Uncle Gordy who raided the pension funds by scrapping relief on dividends to help fund the unaffordable expansion in the public sector costs over the course of the last government.

That was raiding the pensions of tomorrows private sector pensioners to for example pay your unsustainable pay deals and create a whole load of non jobs.

Why do you expect to get any sympathy from private sector workers now? Where were you since 1997? Were you out campaigning against Labour profligacy?

Thought not.
Normal Guy, Dont forget it was Uncle Gordy who raided the pension funds by scrapping relief on dividends to help fund the unaffordable expansion in the public sector costs over the course of the last government. That was raiding the pensions of tomorrows private sector pensioners to for example pay your unsustainable pay deals and create a whole load of non jobs. Why do you expect to get any sympathy from private sector workers now? Where were you since 1997? Were you out campaigning against Labour profligacy? Thought not. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

4:37pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

There is one simple reason that Greece is in such massive trouble. Successive governments completely ignored what was wrong with their Public sector. It's a lesson for us all.
There is one simple reason that Greece is in such massive trouble. Successive governments completely ignored what was wrong with their Public sector. It's a lesson for us all. George4th

4:41pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Normal Guy, sorry,can see you were not just taking the public sector position.

You ask about a state backed scheme?

Well, the problem is that is what the state pension is, but the state doesnt back it with assets, it is paid out of tax revenues, so this is why there is so much of a problem when the age structure of the population changes.

This is the real reason that no government will really tackle immigration, as our ageing population needs to be rebalnced with lots of new workers to pay our future pensions, so importing workers is the easiest way to do this.

I also support paying UK nationals to produce children, but this should only be paid if the family has over a certain threshold of income to sustain their family.

We should get out of the business of farming dependency with our benefits culture.

As regards the stock market, well there are challenges there, as the world economy changes, over the long run, how much growth will there be in the UK, and how much will people need to spread their pension over emerging markets in order to get a reliable return.

If Gordy hadnt taken tax relief off the dividends going into pensions, the pension growth forecasts for many people would be looking rather healthier.

As regards taking money from tomorrows pensioners to pay bankers bonuses, that is just silly.
We are going to need the financial sector to help us grow out of recession and avoid a depression, and we should stop talking it down. It's one of Britain's strengths still.
Public sector costs have to be cut to reflect the reduced tax revenues that are coming in, more than that we have to repay some of this government debt.
Normal Guy, sorry,can see you were not just taking the public sector position. You ask about a state backed scheme? Well, the problem is that is what the state pension is, but the state doesnt back it with assets, it is paid out of tax revenues, so this is why there is so much of a problem when the age structure of the population changes. This is the real reason that no government will really tackle immigration, as our ageing population needs to be rebalnced with lots of new workers to pay our future pensions, so importing workers is the easiest way to do this. I also support paying UK nationals to produce children, but this should only be paid if the family has over a certain threshold of income to sustain their family. We should get out of the business of farming dependency with our benefits culture. As regards the stock market, well there are challenges there, as the world economy changes, over the long run, how much growth will there be in the UK, and how much will people need to spread their pension over emerging markets in order to get a reliable return. If Gordy hadnt taken tax relief off the dividends going into pensions, the pension growth forecasts for many people would be looking rather healthier. As regards taking money from tomorrows pensioners to pay bankers bonuses, that is just silly. We are going to need the financial sector to help us grow out of recession and avoid a depression, and we should stop talking it down. It's one of Britain's strengths still. Public sector costs have to be cut to reflect the reduced tax revenues that are coming in, more than that we have to repay some of this government debt. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

4:52pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Normal Guy says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Normal Guy, Dont forget it was Uncle Gordy who raided the pension funds by scrapping relief on dividends to help fund the unaffordable expansion in the public sector costs over the course of the last government. That was raiding the pensions of tomorrows private sector pensioners to for example pay your unsustainable pay deals and create a whole load of non jobs. Why do you expect to get any sympathy from private sector workers now? Where were you since 1997? Were you out campaigning against Labour profligacy? Thought not.
in 1997 I was in the privaty sector with a worthless endowment that I was mis sold and a worthless pension likewise, like I said this is a multi party problem with the blame laid at the feet of all mp's
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Normal Guy, Dont forget it was Uncle Gordy who raided the pension funds by scrapping relief on dividends to help fund the unaffordable expansion in the public sector costs over the course of the last government. That was raiding the pensions of tomorrows private sector pensioners to for example pay your unsustainable pay deals and create a whole load of non jobs. Why do you expect to get any sympathy from private sector workers now? Where were you since 1997? Were you out campaigning against Labour profligacy? Thought not.[/p][/quote]in 1997 I was in the privaty sector with a worthless endowment that I was mis sold and a worthless pension likewise, like I said this is a multi party problem with the blame laid at the feet of all mp's Normal Guy

5:04pm Wed 30 Nov 11

uniboy says...

james47 wrote:
here is the problem.

Everybody loves santa. he gives away everything for free and there is no bill.

Nobody loves when dad comes in and says put away your toys and eat your spinach.

Traditionally the public sector expected better pensions, as a quid pro quo for the fact that pay rates were lower than jobs of equivalent responsibility in the private sector. But now (because of Gordon Brown's extravagance) the gap in basic pay is the other way around. So the fact that the state's employees get an effective bonus of about 30 per cent of their salaries in the form of employer pension contributions (paid for by all taxpayers, including those with no employer pension provision whatever) is objectionable on precisely the grounds that Mr McCluskey and the unions seeks to defend his members' privileges: inequity and unfairness.

This day of action is a strike of the haves (the public sector), largely at the expense of the have-nots. Those in the private sector.

ps--If life is so tough in the public sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the private sector and experience how tough the real world actually is.
typical what happened to the private sector pensions ? a few years ago they were all gold plated remember ! ye and most from the private sector who have a private pension still get a good deal !
so the banks came in with greed lost loads of public and private money so the knock on to that was the stock market,s crashe pensions in all sectors effected
so who paid for this yes the public sector workers who are paid crap but looked forward to a reasonable pension not gold plated as the tory,s keep stating
so to say quit to them James is a really good idea then people like you can keep your ill or un educated family at home and scrounge of the dole
[quote][p][bold]james47[/bold] wrote: here is the problem. Everybody loves santa. he gives away everything for free and there is no bill. Nobody loves when dad comes in and says put away your toys and eat your spinach. Traditionally the public sector expected better pensions, as a quid pro quo for the fact that pay rates were lower than jobs of equivalent responsibility in the private sector. But now (because of Gordon Brown's extravagance) the gap in basic pay is the other way around. So the fact that the state's employees get an effective bonus of about 30 per cent of their salaries in the form of employer pension contributions (paid for by all taxpayers, including those with no employer pension provision whatever) is objectionable on precisely the grounds that Mr McCluskey and the unions seeks to defend his members' privileges: inequity and unfairness. This day of action is a strike of the haves (the public sector), largely at the expense of the have-nots. Those in the private sector. ps--If life is so tough in the public sector--QUIT. Go get a job in the private sector and experience how tough the real world actually is.[/p][/quote]typical what happened to the private sector pensions ? a few years ago they were all gold plated remember ! ye and most from the private sector who have a private pension still get a good deal ! so the banks came in with greed lost loads of public and private money so the knock on to that was the stock market,s crashe pensions in all sectors effected so who paid for this yes the public sector workers who are paid crap but looked forward to a reasonable pension not gold plated as the tory,s keep stating so to say quit to them James is a really good idea then people like you can keep your ill or un educated family at home and scrounge of the dole uniboy

5:15pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

uniboy,
Seriously, if you want to blame anyone now for public sector wage cuts, job losses, and pension cuts, it comes down to Labour overspending massively during the last government.

See this article how even the Labour Treasury ministers were joking about how they had spent all the money. This is what labour do. They spend all the money and try to be everyone's friend, and then it runs out, the economy nosedives, and the conservatives get left to clear up the mess.

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/politics/2010/
may/17/liam-byrne-no
te-successor
uniboy, Seriously, if you want to blame anyone now for public sector wage cuts, job losses, and pension cuts, it comes down to Labour overspending massively during the last government. See this article how even the Labour Treasury ministers were joking about how they had spent all the money. This is what labour do. They spend all the money and try to be everyone's friend, and then it runs out, the economy nosedives, and the conservatives get left to clear up the mess. http://www.guardian. co.uk/politics/2010/ may/17/liam-byrne-no te-successor Sotonians_lets_pull_together

5:27pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Paramjit Bahia says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Paramjit,

The truth is that it IS all about the ordinary private sector wealth creators being expected to fund through their taxes pay and conditions for public sector workers which they do not get themselves.

You can fuss all you like about a few rich people about the top, whatever the system, there are always a few rich people at the top, and they will always be rich enough to go somewhere else if you try and penalise them too much. Those super rich few are not numerically that significant.

The reality is that it is the bulk of people on average private sector salaries that pay the bulk of taxes, for the good reason that they are the most numerous.

These ordinary private sector people are the employers of the public sector workers, and WE are telling YOU that we cannot afford to pay as much as we were before, and the public sector is going to face job cuts, losses of services, and drops in pay and conditions, like it or lump it.

That is why so many polls are showing that there is not as much support for the strikes that you would hope for, and most conducted today seem to show a majority of people are against the strikes, with the majority being massive if you look particularly at the private sector work force who you are expecting to reach into their pockets yet again.

Let us tell you, those pockets are empty. The well has run dry. Easy street has been closed until further notice. The gravy train has been derailed.
Yes private sector creates wealth, but for the survival of our society of which they are also a part need the services provided by the public sector. To me it can never be one without the other, both are equally important
.
Water level may have gone down a bit in what you described “well” but the British ‘well of wealth’ is nowhere near running completely dry
.
Yes money is very important, but how it is used is even more important
.
I believe our national governments priorities have been wrong for a long time, those need to be readjusted
.
To start with EU project was a big mistake. UK should have played on equal terms in Commonwealth instead of trying to keep on exploiting it on the basis of one way traffic of extensive profits only in one direction and keep on treating other nations if they were still the slaves
.
One of world’s biggest number of consumers and natural resources and labour with lots of shared history could have been good for all concerned
.
With some determined effort and humble instead of arrogant approach commonwealth may still be more forgiving than crisis torn EU
.
Other option is to deal with upcoming BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) nations
.
Most important is to redevelop our manufacturing base, which has almost disappeared
.
Yes there perceived danger of transfer of wealth to other places, BUT learn from places like India (The land of Mahatma Gandhi where his own people killed one of the greatest man ever to walk on earth). Their economy immediately after independence was in a complete mess. Their super rich like Tatas (now owner of Jaguar etc) also could have left India along with their massive wealth. But socialist government closed that loophole by controlling what can be taken out. Casino banking was taken care of by taking control of all the banks and insurance companies. Rest is now there to be seen
.
UK government can copy that and save lots of money by stopping waste on wars and contributions to sinking ship of EU
.
British establishment is very good at ‘divide and rule’ it was how the empire was built and eventually caused it end. They are still trying the same tricks by dividing us on the basis of public private and self employed etc and also on the basis of colour race gender and religions. WE SHOULD AVOID THAT TRAP AND UNITE AS PEOPLE
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Paramjit, The truth is that it IS all about the ordinary private sector wealth creators being expected to fund through their taxes pay and conditions for public sector workers which they do not get themselves. You can fuss all you like about a few rich people about the top, whatever the system, there are always a few rich people at the top, and they will always be rich enough to go somewhere else if you try and penalise them too much. Those super rich few are not numerically that significant. The reality is that it is the bulk of people on average private sector salaries that pay the bulk of taxes, for the good reason that they are the most numerous. These ordinary private sector people are the employers of the public sector workers, and WE are telling YOU that we cannot afford to pay as much as we were before, and the public sector is going to face job cuts, losses of services, and drops in pay and conditions, like it or lump it. That is why so many polls are showing that there is not as much support for the strikes that you would hope for, and most conducted today seem to show a majority of people are against the strikes, with the majority being massive if you look particularly at the private sector work force who you are expecting to reach into their pockets yet again. Let us tell you, those pockets are empty. The well has run dry. Easy street has been closed until further notice. The gravy train has been derailed.[/p][/quote]Yes private sector creates wealth, but for the survival of our society of which they are also a part need the services provided by the public sector. To me it can never be one without the other, both are equally important . Water level may have gone down a bit in what you described “well” but the British ‘well of wealth’ is nowhere near running completely dry . Yes money is very important, but how it is used is even more important . I believe our national governments priorities have been wrong for a long time, those need to be readjusted . To start with EU project was a big mistake. UK should have played on equal terms in Commonwealth instead of trying to keep on exploiting it on the basis of one way traffic of extensive profits only in one direction and keep on treating other nations if they were still the slaves . One of world’s biggest number of consumers and natural resources and labour with lots of shared history could have been good for all concerned . With some determined effort and humble instead of arrogant approach commonwealth may still be more forgiving than crisis torn EU . Other option is to deal with upcoming BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) nations . Most important is to redevelop our manufacturing base, which has almost disappeared . Yes there perceived danger of transfer of wealth to other places, BUT learn from places like India (The land of Mahatma Gandhi where his own people killed one of the greatest man ever to walk on earth). Their economy immediately after independence was in a complete mess. Their super rich like Tatas (now owner of Jaguar etc) also could have left India along with their massive wealth. But socialist government closed that loophole by controlling what can be taken out. Casino banking was taken care of by taking control of all the banks and insurance companies. Rest is now there to be seen . UK government can copy that and save lots of money by stopping waste on wars and contributions to sinking ship of EU . British establishment is very good at ‘divide and rule’ it was how the empire was built and eventually caused it end. They are still trying the same tricks by dividing us on the basis of public private and self employed etc and also on the basis of colour race gender and religions. WE SHOULD AVOID THAT TRAP AND UNITE AS PEOPLE Paramjit Bahia

5:39pm Wed 30 Nov 11

vag says...

A superb own goal from the trot led sheep. All they achieved was winding up the people who rely on them, whilst simultaneously not getting what they wanted, and no doubt making the selection process for the 710,000 of them who are for the high jump much easier.
A superb own goal from the trot led sheep. All they achieved was winding up the people who rely on them, whilst simultaneously not getting what they wanted, and no doubt making the selection process for the 710,000 of them who are for the high jump much easier. vag

5:46pm Wed 30 Nov 11

AdrianMonk says...

vag wrote:
A superb own goal from the trot led sheep. All they achieved was winding up the people who rely on them, whilst simultaneously not getting what they wanted, and no doubt making the selection process for the 710,000 of them who are for the high jump much easier.
Here's my reply:

Bullseye.
.
MP's will now be looking to see which types of public sector workers were off work and the effect. Nil effect, lose job.
.
It really is that simple.
[quote][p][bold]vag[/bold] wrote: A superb own goal from the trot led sheep. All they achieved was winding up the people who rely on them, whilst simultaneously not getting what they wanted, and no doubt making the selection process for the 710,000 of them who are for the high jump much easier.[/p][/quote]Here's my reply: Bullseye. . MP's will now be looking to see which types of public sector workers were off work and the effect. Nil effect, lose job. . It really is that simple. AdrianMonk

5:49pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Good to see that the strike has had no impact other than to boost trade for the retail sector as parents and "strikers" do some christmas shopping and visit the cafes.

Reminds me of the train strikes which always seemed to happen during BBQ season....
Obviously a lot of Tory propaganda about bringing chaos to the railways, airports etc.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Good to see that the strike has had no impact other than to boost trade for the retail sector as parents and "strikers" do some christmas shopping and visit the cafes. Reminds me of the train strikes which always seemed to happen during BBQ season....[/p][/quote]Obviously a lot of Tory propaganda about bringing chaos to the railways, airports etc. Lone Ranger.

5:52pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Lone Ranger. says...

George4th wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
"spotburst says...
10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11

People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?"

That is hilarious.

There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth

and the public sector that SPENDS wealth

I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was.

That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions.

If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work.

We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more

Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice.

It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful.

Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work?

Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence?

Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties.

There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies.

People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty

(Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ )
A well written comment. I agree.
Yawn,,,,,, !!!
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: "spotburst says... 10:53am Wed 30 Nov 11 People need to ask themselves what is so good about the private sector?" That is hilarious. There is the private sector that GENERATES wealth and the public sector that SPENDS wealth I am fully behind having an effective public sector, however, when times are hard in the economy, if wealth creation has taken a hit, then public sector spending needs to take a hit. The country simply cannot afford to keep spending at the rate it was. That means cuts to services, jobs, and pay and conditions. If it means that public sector workers end up on lower pay, that is life, it is better than having more people out of work. We also need to drastically cut benefits to those out of work who can work, as that will make those still in work appreciate it much more Benefits are ridiculously high and unaffordable in this country. It is not sustainable. In the next few years we will see them being cut more strongly. There is simply no choice. It is disgusting to see so many examples of people quitting jobs or not taking work because they are "better off on benefits". I have come across examples myself. Such a viewpoint is a disease within society, and will have to be stamped out if the country is to prosper in a world where emerging economies are becoming more na dmore powerful. Should cash benefits be given out at all? Should the state only provide free hostels for those who cannot find work? Should people be compelled to work when the state is funding their existence? Britain is virtually bankrupt. So many of us are living on our savings, the value of our properties. There is a cold wind of austerity that is blowing and will blow for at least ten years, and the economy will only begin to prosper again when wages fall to levels which are competitive with emerging economies. People are going to learn the meaning of hard work again, or they will simply end up in poverty (Real poverty where you cannot afford to eat, not the kind which means you havent got a car, new 32 inch TV and Sky+ )[/p][/quote]A well written comment. I agree.[/p][/quote]Yawn,,,,,, !!! Lone Ranger.

5:55pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Red1918 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.”
So get off your knees, join a Union and organise. People like you are a real boon to the bosses. Cravenly grateful for your job and happy to jump whenever the boss says so. Not only that you are happy to do their bidding by criticising fellow workers who are not prepared to put up with that sort of treatment.
All working class people should aspire to the hightest denominator not the lowest where you are content to wallow.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: Hearing a teacher on the radio say 'I feel for the patents who might be losing a days pay but I'm fighting against our poor pay it's alright for those in the private sector'. That made me swear loudly at the radio, public sector workers like teachers don't know how good they have, they should try working for a big private company and see how they like no pension no bonuses no big pay rises and less pay than the public sector.”[/p][/quote]So get off your knees, join a Union and organise. People like you are a real boon to the bosses. Cravenly grateful for your job and happy to jump whenever the boss says so. Not only that you are happy to do their bidding by criticising fellow workers who are not prepared to put up with that sort of treatment. All working class people should aspire to the hightest denominator not the lowest where you are content to wallow. Red1918

6:11pm Wed 30 Nov 11

SOULJACKER says...

Good way of helping the country out of recession 'NOT'.

You lazy bunch, soon you will have a no job to go to & that will be wrong.

How many parents have had to pay for child care because of you? how many companies have lost a days work from their employees because of you?

I know some of the people who went on the march today & they couldn't cut it in the private sector because they are lazy at the best of times!

Come into the real world council workers & civil servants...the door is open for you.
Good way of helping the country out of recession 'NOT'. You lazy bunch, soon you will have a no job to go to & that will be wrong. How many parents have had to pay for child care because of you? how many companies have lost a days work from their employees because of you? I know some of the people who went on the march today & they couldn't cut it in the private sector because they are lazy at the best of times! Come into the real world council workers & civil servants...the door is open for you. SOULJACKER

6:21pm Wed 30 Nov 11

TimTam says...

The government propaganda machine has been successful in pitching the private and public sectors against each other - fine example of divide and rule.
The government propaganda machine has been successful in pitching the private and public sectors against each other - fine example of divide and rule. TimTam

6:36pm Wed 30 Nov 11

thinklikealocal says...

You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state:

1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy.
2. Public sector workers are paid more than them.
3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them.

Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?.......
You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state: 1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy. 2. Public sector workers are paid more than them. 3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them. Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?....... thinklikealocal

6:38pm Wed 30 Nov 11

eurogordi says...

It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension!

The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year.

My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media.

I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire.

Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries.

Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today!
It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension! The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year. My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media. I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire. Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries. Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today! eurogordi

6:54pm Wed 30 Nov 11

MGRA says...

eurogordi wrote:
It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension!

The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year.

My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media.

I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire.

Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries.

Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today!
who cares,,, we are all in a mess... pensions in 20 years won't exist at all unless you have a private investment fund... we have to work until we drop, all of us.... the governments have trashed the comfy way of life and let the planet reach 6 billion and counting.... WHEN are people going to wake up.... its ALL change...
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension! The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year. My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media. I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire. Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries. Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today![/p][/quote]who cares,,, we are all in a mess... pensions in 20 years won't exist at all unless you have a private investment fund... we have to work until we drop, all of us.... the governments have trashed the comfy way of life and let the planet reach 6 billion and counting.... WHEN are people going to wake up.... its ALL change... MGRA

7:00pm Wed 30 Nov 11

southy says...

peenut81 wrote:
I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything.....
Peenut you just hit that nail harder your right, we know the Torys and lib dem would never support the working class, but for Labour to stop supporting them, and not been supporting them for the last 25 years, only says one thing Labour just another tory gravy train chaser. And the working class only hope now is in the TUSC who will support the working class and do what is right.

About 3,000 turned up at hoglands park for the march today.

The reason why the strikers and unions support the Labour Party is because off groups like the Socialist workers Party and the Trade Council, who believe that they can win back Labour. It has not got into there heads yet, to win back Labour first of all you got to destory it make it unelectable then take it over and then spend the next 30 years rebuilding it, which is a waste of time, it be a lot quicker to start afresh with a new party and that what the TUSC is, a new political party for the working class, and is the only working class party out there.
[quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything.....[/p][/quote]Peenut you just hit that nail harder your right, we know the Torys and lib dem would never support the working class, but for Labour to stop supporting them, and not been supporting them for the last 25 years, only says one thing Labour just another tory gravy train chaser. And the working class only hope now is in the TUSC who will support the working class and do what is right. About 3,000 turned up at hoglands park for the march today. The reason why the strikers and unions support the Labour Party is because off groups like the Socialist workers Party and the Trade Council, who believe that they can win back Labour. It has not got into there heads yet, to win back Labour first of all you got to destory it make it unelectable then take it over and then spend the next 30 years rebuilding it, which is a waste of time, it be a lot quicker to start afresh with a new party and that what the TUSC is, a new political party for the working class, and is the only working class party out there. southy

7:08pm Wed 30 Nov 11

southy says...

George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
The irony is that the Private sector have had 30 years to get this country up and running and they have had 30 years of failer, and the truth of the matter is that the Public sector has been proping up the Private sector for 30 years to get them running.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]The irony is that the Private sector have had 30 years to get this country up and running and they have had 30 years of failer, and the truth of the matter is that the Public sector has been proping up the Private sector for 30 years to get them running. southy

7:29pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
The irony is that the Private sector have had 30 years to get this country up and running and they have had 30 years of failer, and the truth of the matter is that the Public sector has been proping up the Private sector for 30 years to get them running.
Southy, that has to be your worst riposte!
>
The economy started to grow in 1992 and was rampant by the time Labour came into power in 1997. For 2 years they continued with Tory policies and then they went absolutely berserk spending Public money! They threw money like confetti including public sector salaries (and therefore much BIGGER PENSIONS) e.g. Doctor's salaries more or less doubled overnight!! All this added to the horrendous debt they saddled us with!
>
We have reached the point where the average Public sector salary is £4,000 a year more than the average Private sector salary - add the additional Public sector pension contributions and that is an amazing difference, especially as only 2,000,000 Public sector staff are considered essential!
>
Even if we get the UK economy sorted out in the next 10 years, we will have been weakened so much at a time when other countries are thriving and growing. We will not be anywhere near as competitive and we will fall down the global economic league table resulting in a proportionately lower standard of living!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]The irony is that the Private sector have had 30 years to get this country up and running and they have had 30 years of failer, and the truth of the matter is that the Public sector has been proping up the Private sector for 30 years to get them running.[/p][/quote]Southy, that has to be your worst riposte! > The economy started to grow in 1992 and was rampant by the time Labour came into power in 1997. For 2 years they continued with Tory policies and then they went absolutely berserk spending Public money! They threw money like confetti including public sector salaries (and therefore much BIGGER PENSIONS) e.g. Doctor's salaries more or less doubled overnight!! All this added to the horrendous debt they saddled us with! > We have reached the point where the average Public sector salary is £4,000 a year more than the average Private sector salary - add the additional Public sector pension contributions and that is an amazing difference, especially as only 2,000,000 Public sector staff are considered essential! > Even if we get the UK economy sorted out in the next 10 years, we will have been weakened so much at a time when other countries are thriving and growing. We will not be anywhere near as competitive and we will fall down the global economic league table resulting in a proportionately lower standard of living! George4th

7:37pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

thinklikealocal wrote:
You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state:

1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy.
2. Public sector workers are paid more than them.
3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them.

Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?.......
Interesting that you mentioned this. I advised my children in 1997 to either leave the country or get a job in the Public sector because Labour would greatly increase salaries and employ lots more people! At its peak, the Guardian was advertising so many mickey mouse jobs with 8 word titles that it became embarrassing!!
[quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state: 1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy. 2. Public sector workers are paid more than them. 3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them. Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?.......[/p][/quote]Interesting that you mentioned this. I advised my children in 1997 to either leave the country or get a job in the Public sector because Labour would greatly increase salaries and employ lots more people! At its peak, the Guardian was advertising so many mickey mouse jobs with 8 word titles that it became embarrassing!! George4th

7:49pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out!
>
Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country.
>
Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever!
(Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)
Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out! > Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country. > Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever! (Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!) George4th

7:55pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Lone Ranger. says...

George4th wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state:

1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy.
2. Public sector workers are paid more than them.
3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them.

Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?.......
Interesting that you mentioned this. I advised my children in 1997 to either leave the country or get a job in the Public sector because Labour would greatly increase salaries and employ lots more people! At its peak, the Guardian was advertising so many mickey mouse jobs with 8 word titles that it became embarrassing!!
Looks like you have forgooten already what you told your kids ..... seems to differ on each post !!
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state: 1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy. 2. Public sector workers are paid more than them. 3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them. Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?.......[/p][/quote]Interesting that you mentioned this. I advised my children in 1997 to either leave the country or get a job in the Public sector because Labour would greatly increase salaries and employ lots more people! At its peak, the Guardian was advertising so many mickey mouse jobs with 8 word titles that it became embarrassing!![/p][/quote]Looks like you have forgooten already what you told your kids ..... seems to differ on each post !! Lone Ranger.

8:07pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
George4th wrote:
thinklikealocal wrote:
You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state:

1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy.
2. Public sector workers are paid more than them.
3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them.

Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?.......
Interesting that you mentioned this. I advised my children in 1997 to either leave the country or get a job in the Public sector because Labour would greatly increase salaries and employ lots more people! At its peak, the Guardian was advertising so many mickey mouse jobs with 8 word titles that it became embarrassing!!
Looks like you have forgooten already what you told your kids ..... seems to differ on each post !!
Try being a man and write down what you are talking about - elaborate so the world can join in. I'll be very happy to see what the heck you are talking about!
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinklikealocal[/bold] wrote: You know what, I really don't get it. All the private sectors workers on here who state: 1. Public sector workers are useless and lazy. 2. Public sector workers are paid more than them. 3. Public sector workers have a better pension than them. Question, why are you all still working in the private sector? If your sure of your facts, and the public sector is clearly a so much better place to be and has been for some time?.......[/p][/quote]Interesting that you mentioned this. I advised my children in 1997 to either leave the country or get a job in the Public sector because Labour would greatly increase salaries and employ lots more people! At its peak, the Guardian was advertising so many mickey mouse jobs with 8 word titles that it became embarrassing!![/p][/quote]Looks like you have forgooten already what you told your kids ..... seems to differ on each post !![/p][/quote]Try being a man and write down what you are talking about - elaborate so the world can join in. I'll be very happy to see what the heck you are talking about! George4th

8:08pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Did you catch Jeremy Clarkson on the One Show? Hilariously scathing about the strikers.
Did you catch Jeremy Clarkson on the One Show? Hilariously scathing about the strikers. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

8:09pm Wed 30 Nov 11

J.P.M says...

George4th is wasting his time on this rag paper.
He speaks with such purpose and authority, that he should be nestled in between cameron, the old tart and the expense fiddler
George4th is wasting his time on this rag paper. He speaks with such purpose and authority, that he should be nestled in between cameron, the old tart and the expense fiddler J.P.M

8:33pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Old Man of the Sea says...

I have read all the posts carefully, but I can't find out what posters mean by workers?
Do they define workers as those who work with their hands and not people who work with their intelligence?
In which case how do you define a surgeon or a Taxi controller?
I have read all the posts carefully, but I can't find out what posters mean by workers? Do they define workers as those who work with their hands and not people who work with their intelligence? In which case how do you define a surgeon or a Taxi controller? Old Man of the Sea

8:37pm Wed 30 Nov 11

uniboy says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Paramjit,

The truth is that it IS all about the ordinary private sector wealth creators being expected to fund through their taxes pay and conditions for public sector workers which they do not get themselves.

You can fuss all you like about a few rich people about the top, whatever the system, there are always a few rich people at the top, and they will always be rich enough to go somewhere else if you try and penalise them too much. Those super rich few are not numerically that significant.

The reality is that it is the bulk of people on average private sector salaries that pay the bulk of taxes, for the good reason that they are the most numerous.

These ordinary private sector people are the employers of the public sector workers, and WE are telling YOU that we cannot afford to pay as much as we were before, and the public sector is going to face job cuts, losses of services, and drops in pay and conditions, like it or lump it.

That is why so many polls are showing that there is not as much support for the strikes that you would hope for, and most conducted today seem to show a majority of people are against the strikes, with the majority being massive if you look particularly at the private sector work force who you are expecting to reach into their pockets yet again.

Let us tell you, those pockets are empty. The well has run dry. Easy street has been closed until further notice. The gravy train has been derailed.
Yes private sector creates wealth, but for the survival of our society of which they are also a part need the services provided by the public sector. To me it can never be one without the other, both are equally important
.
Water level may have gone down a bit in what you described “well” but the British ‘well of wealth’ is nowhere near running completely dry
.
Yes money is very important, but how it is used is even more important
.
I believe our national governments priorities have been wrong for a long time, those need to be readjusted
.
To start with EU project was a big mistake. UK should have played on equal terms in Commonwealth instead of trying to keep on exploiting it on the basis of one way traffic of extensive profits only in one direction and keep on treating other nations if they were still the slaves
.
One of world’s biggest number of consumers and natural resources and labour with lots of shared history could have been good for all concerned
.
With some determined effort and humble instead of arrogant approach commonwealth may still be more forgiving than crisis torn EU
.
Other option is to deal with upcoming BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) nations
.
Most important is to redevelop our manufacturing base, which has almost disappeared
.
Yes there perceived danger of transfer of wealth to other places, BUT learn from places like India (The land of Mahatma Gandhi where his own people killed one of the greatest man ever to walk on earth). Their economy immediately after independence was in a complete mess. Their super rich like Tatas (now owner of Jaguar etc) also could have left India along with their massive wealth. But socialist government closed that loophole by controlling what can be taken out. Casino banking was taken care of by taking control of all the banks and insurance companies. Rest is now there to be seen
.
UK government can copy that and save lots of money by stopping waste on wars and contributions to sinking ship of EU
.
British establishment is very good at ‘divide and rule’ it was how the empire was built and eventually caused it end. They are still trying the same tricks by dividing us on the basis of public private and self employed etc and also on the basis of colour race gender and religions. WE SHOULD AVOID THAT TRAP AND UNITE AS PEOPLE
so true!!!
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Paramjit, The truth is that it IS all about the ordinary private sector wealth creators being expected to fund through their taxes pay and conditions for public sector workers which they do not get themselves. You can fuss all you like about a few rich people about the top, whatever the system, there are always a few rich people at the top, and they will always be rich enough to go somewhere else if you try and penalise them too much. Those super rich few are not numerically that significant. The reality is that it is the bulk of people on average private sector salaries that pay the bulk of taxes, for the good reason that they are the most numerous. These ordinary private sector people are the employers of the public sector workers, and WE are telling YOU that we cannot afford to pay as much as we were before, and the public sector is going to face job cuts, losses of services, and drops in pay and conditions, like it or lump it. That is why so many polls are showing that there is not as much support for the strikes that you would hope for, and most conducted today seem to show a majority of people are against the strikes, with the majority being massive if you look particularly at the private sector work force who you are expecting to reach into their pockets yet again. Let us tell you, those pockets are empty. The well has run dry. Easy street has been closed until further notice. The gravy train has been derailed.[/p][/quote]Yes private sector creates wealth, but for the survival of our society of which they are also a part need the services provided by the public sector. To me it can never be one without the other, both are equally important . Water level may have gone down a bit in what you described “well” but the British ‘well of wealth’ is nowhere near running completely dry . Yes money is very important, but how it is used is even more important . I believe our national governments priorities have been wrong for a long time, those need to be readjusted . To start with EU project was a big mistake. UK should have played on equal terms in Commonwealth instead of trying to keep on exploiting it on the basis of one way traffic of extensive profits only in one direction and keep on treating other nations if they were still the slaves . One of world’s biggest number of consumers and natural resources and labour with lots of shared history could have been good for all concerned . With some determined effort and humble instead of arrogant approach commonwealth may still be more forgiving than crisis torn EU . Other option is to deal with upcoming BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) nations . Most important is to redevelop our manufacturing base, which has almost disappeared . Yes there perceived danger of transfer of wealth to other places, BUT learn from places like India (The land of Mahatma Gandhi where his own people killed one of the greatest man ever to walk on earth). Their economy immediately after independence was in a complete mess. Their super rich like Tatas (now owner of Jaguar etc) also could have left India along with their massive wealth. But socialist government closed that loophole by controlling what can be taken out. Casino banking was taken care of by taking control of all the banks and insurance companies. Rest is now there to be seen . UK government can copy that and save lots of money by stopping waste on wars and contributions to sinking ship of EU . British establishment is very good at ‘divide and rule’ it was how the empire was built and eventually caused it end. They are still trying the same tricks by dividing us on the basis of public private and self employed etc and also on the basis of colour race gender and religions. WE SHOULD AVOID THAT TRAP AND UNITE AS PEOPLE[/p][/quote]so true!!! uniboy

8:58pm Wed 30 Nov 11

southy says...

George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
There's a certain irony in all this.
It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again.
>
>
>
(A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)
The irony is that the Private sector have had 30 years to get this country up and running and they have had 30 years of failer, and the truth of the matter is that the Public sector has been proping up the Private sector for 30 years to get them running.
Southy, that has to be your worst riposte!
>
The economy started to grow in 1992 and was rampant by the time Labour came into power in 1997. For 2 years they continued with Tory policies and then they went absolutely berserk spending Public money! They threw money like confetti including public sector salaries (and therefore much BIGGER PENSIONS) e.g. Doctor's salaries more or less doubled overnight!! All this added to the horrendous debt they saddled us with!
>
We have reached the point where the average Public sector salary is £4,000 a year more than the average Private sector salary - add the additional Public sector pension contributions and that is an amazing difference, especially as only 2,000,000 Public sector staff are considered essential!
>
Even if we get the UK economy sorted out in the next 10 years, we will have been weakened so much at a time when other countries are thriving and growing. We will not be anywhere near as competitive and we will fall down the global economic league table resulting in a proportionately lower standard of living!
If you really look into the Economy it has been falling for 25 years, your economist leave the fact of population growth.
The larger the population the more money should be spent in the economy and should balance out, and this is not happening.
What should be done is you take the population growth and flat line it using this as your base and lower the spending power by the same amount, when you do you economy figures like this and how it should be done, the economy as been falling for 25 years, the gap between population growth and spendin the economy is getting wider.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: There's a certain irony in all this. It is the Private sector that will eventually get this country up and running again. > > > (A recent analysis of the Public sector worked out that there are about 2 million ESSENTIAL public workers - interesting figure!)[/p][/quote]The irony is that the Private sector have had 30 years to get this country up and running and they have had 30 years of failer, and the truth of the matter is that the Public sector has been proping up the Private sector for 30 years to get them running.[/p][/quote]Southy, that has to be your worst riposte! > The economy started to grow in 1992 and was rampant by the time Labour came into power in 1997. For 2 years they continued with Tory policies and then they went absolutely berserk spending Public money! They threw money like confetti including public sector salaries (and therefore much BIGGER PENSIONS) e.g. Doctor's salaries more or less doubled overnight!! All this added to the horrendous debt they saddled us with! > We have reached the point where the average Public sector salary is £4,000 a year more than the average Private sector salary - add the additional Public sector pension contributions and that is an amazing difference, especially as only 2,000,000 Public sector staff are considered essential! > Even if we get the UK economy sorted out in the next 10 years, we will have been weakened so much at a time when other countries are thriving and growing. We will not be anywhere near as competitive and we will fall down the global economic league table resulting in a proportionately lower standard of living![/p][/quote]If you really look into the Economy it has been falling for 25 years, your economist leave the fact of population growth. The larger the population the more money should be spent in the economy and should balance out, and this is not happening. What should be done is you take the population growth and flat line it using this as your base and lower the spending power by the same amount, when you do you economy figures like this and how it should be done, the economy as been falling for 25 years, the gap between population growth and spendin the economy is getting wider. southy

9:04pm Wed 30 Nov 11

southy says...

George4th wrote:
Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out!
>
Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country.
>
Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever!
(Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)
2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today.

In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out! > Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country. > Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever! (Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)[/p][/quote]2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today. In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers. southy

9:09pm Wed 30 Nov 11

vogon says...

Big Thank you today for the strikers.

Lot less traffic on the Motorway going to and from work today and probably saved a penny ot two in fuel as well.

More please.
Big Thank you today for the strikers. Lot less traffic on the Motorway going to and from work today and probably saved a penny ot two in fuel as well. More please. vogon

9:13pm Wed 30 Nov 11

loosehead says...

waltons11 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
waltons11 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
citychick213 wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.
Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?
I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy??
They have said the low paid public sector workers won't be touched do you fall into this category? also isn't your pension a final salary pension? which is a lot more than £4485 isn't it? also an average of your pay which you state is £24k is a lot more than £4485 so exactly what is that figure? the amount you'll be paying in or your pension? so exactly what is your actual pension before state pension? I mean the actual amount you earn with this free/paid for pension? because I can't believe with a full working life pension with the figures you've paid/quoted would leave you with a pension pay out of £4485 as I get an average pay pension & put in £38,000 which would be rather the same as your payment over the same time & I get considerably more than that. Please watch the BBC today a rep from a teachers union stated that a new improved offer that they haven't even looked at is on the table yet they still called you out on strike surely they should have looked at it then decided not just go ahead anyway shouldn't they?
The figures I quoted are directly from my pension statement received in April, and no I am not on a final salary pension, and many that work with me are not, this is yet another fallacy put about by the media. I did not strike actually as I cannot afford to lose the money, and I do not agree with the way the Unions have approached this, by not looking at all the offers etc. I feel they are just striking for the sake of it now.
Actually I said I was on an average I put that down wrong what my pension was made up from was a payment after two years of £500 a year.
I watched the politics show where Barber said no matter what Maude offered if it wasn't everything the unions had asked for they would still go ahead with the strike even though the Government was having two seperate negotiations a week ( different pension schemes).
I then watched the lunch time news where the presenter asked a Lady head of one of the teaching unions about why strike when there's talks ongoing? she said they had received a new offer & it was waiting to be read & had been in her possession for days but she thought it should have been longer so she never called of the strikes.
Ed Milliband argues that we shouldn't berate ( we I mean Cameron & politicians) the cleaners etc but disagrees with the strikes & has plans to reform the pension system & is quite happy for the coalition to take the flak for doing it instead of Labour
[quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]citychick213[/bold] wrote: Yes I am striking tomorrow and no I don't want to. In fact I don't know a single teacher who does WANT to strike. Funnily enough we went into our profession because we want to educate your children and do our very best for them. We have been forced into this as a last resort so please don't criticise us; educate yourselves about the reason for the strike (that's not believing the Tory-led media!) and aim your blame at the people who deserve it.[/p][/quote]Here we go. I get a £15,000 a year pension after working for 25 years on a production line not something I could say I enjoyed doing but it was a job, Many public sector workers are on a final pay salary no one can say poor people they're going to have to pay in more to get a brilliant pension as no matter what you say the pension the Government are now offering you is far better than what the private sector will get. Even with people who pumped in a large chunk of their wages into their pension only to see Brown rob them & now end up with a pitiful pension worth less than the money they put in your pension is far,far better, If you say I'm wrong put down what you expect to earn at the time of retirement & then put down what you'll get as a pension. then add the state pension to it God you'll be so poor won't you?[/p][/quote]I expect to be earning (depending on cuts and pay freezes) about £24k at the time of retirement. My Pension will be £4485, my state pension will be about £4200, that totals £8685 per year, so yes I will be poor, and before anyone else mentions my "free"pension, it cost me a deduction from my salary of £160 per month + my NI deduction + tax, so it is NOT free, I pay for it!!! I do not get any bonuses or perks either, unless you count flexi time, which just means that I must do 37 hours per week, but can start between 7.30 and 9.00 and end between 4.00 and 6.00, that is all. I work really hard, the goalposts move weekly in my role, and we do not have enough staff to cover the work, so they just pile a bit more work on us almost daily. I would imagine it is not a lot better in the private sector but would not insult anyone but assuming that I knew all about. Perhaps all you guys who slag of Public sector workers should afford us the same courtesy??[/p][/quote]They have said the low paid public sector workers won't be touched do you fall into this category? also isn't your pension a final salary pension? which is a lot more than £4485 isn't it? also an average of your pay which you state is £24k is a lot more than £4485 so exactly what is that figure? the amount you'll be paying in or your pension? so exactly what is your actual pension before state pension? I mean the actual amount you earn with this free/paid for pension? because I can't believe with a full working life pension with the figures you've paid/quoted would leave you with a pension pay out of £4485 as I get an average pay pension & put in £38,000 which would be rather the same as your payment over the same time & I get considerably more than that. Please watch the BBC today a rep from a teachers union stated that a new improved offer that they haven't even looked at is on the table yet they still called you out on strike surely they should have looked at it then decided not just go ahead anyway shouldn't they?[/p][/quote]The figures I quoted are directly from my pension statement received in April, and no I am not on a final salary pension, and many that work with me are not, this is yet another fallacy put about by the media. I did not strike actually as I cannot afford to lose the money, and I do not agree with the way the Unions have approached this, by not looking at all the offers etc. I feel they are just striking for the sake of it now.[/p][/quote]Actually I said I was on an average I put that down wrong what my pension was made up from was a payment after two years of £500 a year. I watched the politics show where Barber said no matter what Maude offered if it wasn't everything the unions had asked for they would still go ahead with the strike even though the Government was having two seperate negotiations a week ( different pension schemes). I then watched the lunch time news where the presenter asked a Lady head of one of the teaching unions about why strike when there's talks ongoing? she said they had received a new offer & it was waiting to be read & had been in her possession for days but she thought it should have been longer so she never called of the strikes. Ed Milliband argues that we shouldn't berate ( we I mean Cameron & politicians) the cleaners etc but disagrees with the strikes & has plans to reform the pension system & is quite happy for the coalition to take the flak for doing it instead of Labour loosehead

9:23pm Wed 30 Nov 11

loosehead says...

eurogordi wrote:
It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension!

The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year.

My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media.

I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire.

Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries.

Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today!
I'm the £15,000 a year contributor & I worked 25 years for the same company & I put £38,000 of my redundancy pay into my pension.so please explain this to me your a public employee yes? if your working from 20 -65 & your paying in £1,920 a year & the government are putting in twice as much how can some one who retires at 65-66 get only £4,484 as a previous post has put down? Just your contribution would be over £78,000 without the governments contribution so why would it be so low? or is it many public sector workers only take those jobs when there's nothing else around so have a short career in the public sector?
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension! The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year. My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media. I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire. Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries. Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today![/p][/quote]I'm the £15,000 a year contributor & I worked 25 years for the same company & I put £38,000 of my redundancy pay into my pension.so please explain this to me your a public employee yes? if your working from 20 -65 & your paying in £1,920 a year & the government are putting in twice as much how can some one who retires at 65-66 get only £4,484 as a previous post has put down? Just your contribution would be over £78,000 without the governments contribution so why would it be so low? or is it many public sector workers only take those jobs when there's nothing else around so have a short career in the public sector? loosehead

9:47pm Wed 30 Nov 11

dockboy says...

Why is the working man his own worst enemy?
Reading the posts above it is plain to see that the “divide and conquer” policy is working better than any spin-doctor could have imagined.
Instead of supporting those who have chosen a career that puts the needs of others first, with no great financial reward either before or after the age of retirement, all we get is ridiculous comments such as, inviting those in public sector employment to resign and get a job in the real world.
These people do live and work in the real world just like the rest of us and deserve our support, not our criticism. There are posters who’s greed and envy shines through, worried that someone is earning a penny more than them.
GET A LIFE
Why is the working man his own worst enemy? Reading the posts above it is plain to see that the “divide and conquer” policy is working better than any spin-doctor could have imagined. Instead of supporting those who have chosen a career that puts the needs of others first, with no great financial reward either before or after the age of retirement, all we get is ridiculous comments such as, inviting those in public sector employment to resign and get a job in the real world. These people do live and work in the real world just like the rest of us and deserve our support, not our criticism. There are posters who’s greed and envy shines through, worried that someone is earning a penny more than them. GET A LIFE dockboy

10:07pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Suziwoo says...

Huffter wrote:
Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us.
Err shows how much you really know if you think we are so "privileged"!!! I've worked on both sides and it's not greener on any side!
[quote][p][bold]Huffter[/bold] wrote: Pretty much 'Situation Normal' for Southampton then. About time the privileged Public Sector workers learnt what life is like for the rest of us.[/p][/quote]Err shows how much you really know if you think we are so "privileged"!!! I've worked on both sides and it's not greener on any side! Suziwoo

10:17pm Wed 30 Nov 11

eurogordi says...

loosehead wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension!

The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year.

My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media.

I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire.

Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries.

Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today!
I'm the £15,000 a year contributor & I worked 25 years for the same company & I put £38,000 of my redundancy pay into my pension.so please explain this to me your a public employee yes? if your working from 20 -65 & your paying in £1,920 a year & the government are putting in twice as much how can some one who retires at 65-66 get only £4,484 as a previous post has put down? Just your contribution would be over £78,000 without the governments contribution so why would it be so low? or is it many public sector workers only take those jobs when there's nothing else around so have a short career in the public sector?
Because, as I explained, it is based on pensionable service not actual service. Added to which, I would NOT have worked from 20-68 (based on the new retirement age) in the public sector.

I previously worked in the private sector where I started to build up a pension that was subsequently frozen. In the last recession I found myself out of work and going back to full time education to re-train.

In 1998 I then joined part of the public sector that had been privatised by the Tories two years earlier, but no pension arrangements were available.

About five years ago we were contracted back into local authority control and I was able to join the local government pension scheme. But this will only be calculated from when I joined the scheme and not for my entire working life.

As far as taking a job in the public sector because nothing else was around, I had no choice when my organisation was taken back by the councils under the Labour government.

With the exception of a pension, I was financially better off with my last private sector employer, whereas my current salary is and continues to be frozen or capped. I never had that happen in the private sector where payrises were always annual AND generous.

So please don't tell me that the private sector are worse off than public workers, because from my own experiences of both the private sector always wins.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: It is clear that those in the private sector have little idea of the public sector. And for the contributor who has a pension of £15000 per year ... I wish I was going to receive that type of income from my public service pension! The media constantly refers to public service "gold plated" "final salary" pensions, but my current predictions suggest that I will be lucky to receive £2000 per year. My salary is £27,000 per year, but my pension is calculated on pensionable service and I have only been a member of the local government scheme for about five years. I will NOT receive £27K+ pension each year, but that is what is implied by the media. I took industrial action today, not because I wanted to but because I had no choice. If I do not protect my pension now, I will become more of a burden on future taxpayers when I eventually retire. Also, please can the private sector remember that EVERYONE who is employed IS a taxpayer. Public sector workers are paying towards their pensions just as much as you who want the free services we offer ... and we also have to make additional contributions from our salaries. Someone I spoke with earlier thought that those who work for public services do not pay tax and that everything is paid for my the private sector. If only that were true, and I might not have been on strike today![/p][/quote]I'm the £15,000 a year contributor & I worked 25 years for the same company & I put £38,000 of my redundancy pay into my pension.so please explain this to me your a public employee yes? if your working from 20 -65 & your paying in £1,920 a year & the government are putting in twice as much how can some one who retires at 65-66 get only £4,484 as a previous post has put down? Just your contribution would be over £78,000 without the governments contribution so why would it be so low? or is it many public sector workers only take those jobs when there's nothing else around so have a short career in the public sector?[/p][/quote]Because, as I explained, it is based on pensionable service not actual service. Added to which, I would NOT have worked from 20-68 (based on the new retirement age) in the public sector. I previously worked in the private sector where I started to build up a pension that was subsequently frozen. In the last recession I found myself out of work and going back to full time education to re-train. In 1998 I then joined part of the public sector that had been privatised by the Tories two years earlier, but no pension arrangements were available. About five years ago we were contracted back into local authority control and I was able to join the local government pension scheme. But this will only be calculated from when I joined the scheme and not for my entire working life. As far as taking a job in the public sector because nothing else was around, I had no choice when my organisation was taken back by the councils under the Labour government. With the exception of a pension, I was financially better off with my last private sector employer, whereas my current salary is and continues to be frozen or capped. I never had that happen in the private sector where payrises were always annual AND generous. So please don't tell me that the private sector are worse off than public workers, because from my own experiences of both the private sector always wins. eurogordi

10:27pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Suziwoo says...

dockboy wrote:
Why is the working man his own worst enemy?
Reading the posts above it is plain to see that the “divide and conquer” policy is working better than any spin-doctor could have imagined.
Instead of supporting those who have chosen a career that puts the needs of others first, with no great financial reward either before or after the age of retirement, all we get is ridiculous comments such as, inviting those in public sector employment to resign and get a job in the real world.
These people do live and work in the real world just like the rest of us and deserve our support, not our criticism. There are posters who’s greed and envy shines through, worried that someone is earning a penny more than them.
GET A LIFE
Brilliant!!
[quote][p][bold]dockboy[/bold] wrote: Why is the working man his own worst enemy? Reading the posts above it is plain to see that the “divide and conquer” policy is working better than any spin-doctor could have imagined. Instead of supporting those who have chosen a career that puts the needs of others first, with no great financial reward either before or after the age of retirement, all we get is ridiculous comments such as, inviting those in public sector employment to resign and get a job in the real world. These people do live and work in the real world just like the rest of us and deserve our support, not our criticism. There are posters who’s greed and envy shines through, worried that someone is earning a penny more than them. GET A LIFE[/p][/quote]Brilliant!! Suziwoo

10:46pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Isthatwotuwant says...

HerbertC wrote:
As someone who worked for multinational private companies for 23 years and now in the public sector for 2 years, I can see both sides here.

I think it's very easy for private sector employees to criticize public sector pensions without bothering to find out the facts. My private pension was cut from final salary to money purchase and there was hardly any fuss from employees (not organised enough). It's very easy to follow the line that pensions, esp final salary are unaffordable now. That may be the case for some smaller companies, but for many larger companies they're still eminently affordable - except the companies choose to use the money elsewhere. Like massive pay rises and perks for the senior management (see recent reports). Also, many private schemes had long contribution holidays and then subsequently claimed that the final salary schemes were no longer affordable.

Don't forget that there was a major review of public sector pensions 3 years ago which led them to be suitably funded for the foreseeable future, including bringing in career average schemes, which I'm in.

Very easy for private sector people to make sweeping judgements without finding out facts. Just because private schemes are being decimated (in many cases with little actual justification apart from the employers being able to get away with it) doesn't mean everyone should work to the lowest possible denominator.
Nicely put. And in addition to the tragedy that many in the Private Sector face having had good pensions and then lost them due to collective power having been eroded, anyone currently in the Private Sector hoping to get a better pension anytime in the next 20 years can kiss it goodbye if the Government and its wealthy sponsors successfully break decent pensions in the public sector. I know plenty of people in the public sector, and their pensions are the only real advantage of the job. There is no prospect of profit share, share options or bonuses. No good years when there are above inflation rises etc.
[quote][p][bold]HerbertC[/bold] wrote: As someone who worked for multinational private companies for 23 years and now in the public sector for 2 years, I can see both sides here. I think it's very easy for private sector employees to criticize public sector pensions without bothering to find out the facts. My private pension was cut from final salary to money purchase and there was hardly any fuss from employees (not organised enough). It's very easy to follow the line that pensions, esp final salary are unaffordable now. That may be the case for some smaller companies, but for many larger companies they're still eminently affordable - except the companies choose to use the money elsewhere. Like massive pay rises and perks for the senior management (see recent reports). Also, many private schemes had long contribution holidays and then subsequently claimed that the final salary schemes were no longer affordable. Don't forget that there was a major review of public sector pensions 3 years ago which led them to be suitably funded for the foreseeable future, including bringing in career average schemes, which I'm in. Very easy for private sector people to make sweeping judgements without finding out facts. Just because private schemes are being decimated (in many cases with little actual justification apart from the employers being able to get away with it) doesn't mean everyone should work to the lowest possible denominator.[/p][/quote]Nicely put. And in addition to the tragedy that many in the Private Sector face having had good pensions and then lost them due to collective power having been eroded, anyone currently in the Private Sector hoping to get a better pension anytime in the next 20 years can kiss it goodbye if the Government and its wealthy sponsors successfully break decent pensions in the public sector. I know plenty of people in the public sector, and their pensions are the only real advantage of the job. There is no prospect of profit share, share options or bonuses. No good years when there are above inflation rises etc. Isthatwotuwant

11:04pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Isthatwotuwant says...

HerbertC wrote:
As someone who worked for multinational private companies for 23 years and now in the public sector for 2 years, I can see both sides here.

I think it's very easy for private sector employees to criticize public sector pensions without bothering to find out the facts. My private pension was cut from final salary to money purchase and there was hardly any fuss from employees (not organised enough). It's very easy to follow the line that pensions, esp final salary are unaffordable now. That may be the case for some smaller companies, but for many larger companies they're still eminently affordable - except the companies choose to use the money elsewhere. Like massive pay rises and perks for the senior management (see recent reports). Also, many private schemes had long contribution holidays and then subsequently claimed that the final salary schemes were no longer affordable.

Don't forget that there was a major review of public sector pensions 3 years ago which led them to be suitably funded for the foreseeable future, including bringing in career average schemes, which I'm in.

Very easy for private sector people to make sweeping judgements without finding out facts. Just because private schemes are being decimated (in many cases with little actual justification apart from the employers being able to get away with it) doesn't mean everyone should work to the lowest possible denominator.
I am a little worried that the Government have badly misjudged their figures. Not only is the Local Government Pension Scheme on course to be self funding following on from the last increase its members had three years ago, but the Government's strategy of increasing the cost of the pensions by 50%, whilst reducing the value by 15-25% (through changing from final to career average) and by a further 1% per year through changing the inflation index they link it to makes it far less attractive. I think that large numbers of people in their 30s and 40s might vacate the public schemes, and take their money and employer contribution entitlement into a private scheme (and protect their final salary enetitlements at the point of leaving the scheme. If I am going to pay out 50% more on my pension I want it to go on an investment for my pension, not on funding the vanity of some national politicians.

What has been misrepresented by the Government is that this increase is needed to fund future pensions of today's workers. The actual shortfall is in how the Government is going to fund the pensions of those who have retired and who will retire in the next few years. Precisely the older workers approaching retirement are the main potential taxpayer liability, especially with so many being put out to pasture prematurely under the cuts we have seen under the last couple of years. If the younger workers decide that they don't want to subsidise this particular problem, then the public will see itself with a large bill.

The deal on the table isn't that attractive. Its like telling someone that instead of the new Ford Mondeo that they were going to buy for £15,000, they are now going to get a new Ford Fiesta for £22,500. Both fine cars, but the two deals are nothing like the same value for money, and only an idiot would regard it as a generous offer if they had the former deal on the table.
[quote][p][bold]HerbertC[/bold] wrote: As someone who worked for multinational private companies for 23 years and now in the public sector for 2 years, I can see both sides here. I think it's very easy for private sector employees to criticize public sector pensions without bothering to find out the facts. My private pension was cut from final salary to money purchase and there was hardly any fuss from employees (not organised enough). It's very easy to follow the line that pensions, esp final salary are unaffordable now. That may be the case for some smaller companies, but for many larger companies they're still eminently affordable - except the companies choose to use the money elsewhere. Like massive pay rises and perks for the senior management (see recent reports). Also, many private schemes had long contribution holidays and then subsequently claimed that the final salary schemes were no longer affordable. Don't forget that there was a major review of public sector pensions 3 years ago which led them to be suitably funded for the foreseeable future, including bringing in career average schemes, which I'm in. Very easy for private sector people to make sweeping judgements without finding out facts. Just because private schemes are being decimated (in many cases with little actual justification apart from the employers being able to get away with it) doesn't mean everyone should work to the lowest possible denominator.[/p][/quote]I am a little worried that the Government have badly misjudged their figures. Not only is the Local Government Pension Scheme on course to be self funding following on from the last increase its members had three years ago, but the Government's strategy of increasing the cost of the pensions by 50%, whilst reducing the value by 15-25% (through changing from final to career average) and by a further 1% per year through changing the inflation index they link it to makes it far less attractive. I think that large numbers of people in their 30s and 40s might vacate the public schemes, and take their money and employer contribution entitlement into a private scheme (and protect their final salary enetitlements at the point of leaving the scheme. If I am going to pay out 50% more on my pension I want it to go on an investment for my pension, not on funding the vanity of some national politicians. What has been misrepresented by the Government is that this increase is needed to fund future pensions of today's workers. The actual shortfall is in how the Government is going to fund the pensions of those who have retired and who will retire in the next few years. Precisely the older workers approaching retirement are the main potential taxpayer liability, especially with so many being put out to pasture prematurely under the cuts we have seen under the last couple of years. If the younger workers decide that they don't want to subsidise this particular problem, then the public will see itself with a large bill. The deal on the table isn't that attractive. Its like telling someone that instead of the new Ford Mondeo that they were going to buy for £15,000, they are now going to get a new Ford Fiesta for £22,500. Both fine cars, but the two deals are nothing like the same value for money, and only an idiot would regard it as a generous offer if they had the former deal on the table. Isthatwotuwant

11:24pm Wed 30 Nov 11

The Outside Edge says...

How much did this strike cost the country today?

Roughly the same amount if not a less as having an extra bank holiday earlier this year for the Royal Wedding,,,,the Government sanctioned that,,,,it seems to me that people refuse to go to work to protect their futures, is according to Government going to break the bank,,,yet they give everyone a day off and its fine.

Double standards me thinks
How much did this strike cost the country today? Roughly the same amount if not a less as having an extra bank holiday earlier this year for the Royal Wedding,,,,the Government sanctioned that,,,,it seems to me that people refuse to go to work to protect their futures, is according to Government going to break the bank,,,yet they give everyone a day off and its fine. Double standards me thinks The Outside Edge

11:51pm Wed 30 Nov 11

George4th says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out!
>
Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country.
>
Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever!
(Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)
2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today.

In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers.
That's about 1.3% of Southampton's population! If you multiply that up against the total population it works out at about 600,000. Even the BBC is now talking in 100s of thousands!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out! > Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country. > Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever! (Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)[/p][/quote]2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today. In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers.[/p][/quote]That's about 1.3% of Southampton's population! If you multiply that up against the total population it works out at about 600,000. Even the BBC is now talking in 100s of thousands! George4th

12:08am Thu 1 Dec 11

IanRRR says...

So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed!
So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed! IanRRR

1:03am Thu 1 Dec 11

southy says...

George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out!
>
Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country.
>
Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever!
(Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)
2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today.

In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers.
That's about 1.3% of Southampton's population! If you multiply that up against the total population it works out at about 600,000. Even the BBC is now talking in 100s of thousands!
It don't work like that George4th, Southampton City is not class as a big city only a medium size city. plus that 3000 public services strikers are only the ones that turned up for the demo and rally, there will be others that went on strike that manned the picket lines.
The known number off Union Strikers was 2 million and 67,000, plus others that supported the strike that also came out on strike, like belfore electy joined the strike today.
And the media has been told to play it down, just like they where told to back in march 25th in London,

The Unions are the ones that will know the real number that came out on strike, they are the ones that will pay every single striker 1 day strike pay.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out! > Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country. > Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever! (Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)[/p][/quote]2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today. In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers.[/p][/quote]That's about 1.3% of Southampton's population! If you multiply that up against the total population it works out at about 600,000. Even the BBC is now talking in 100s of thousands![/p][/quote]It don't work like that George4th, Southampton City is not class as a big city only a medium size city. plus that 3000 public services strikers are only the ones that turned up for the demo and rally, there will be others that went on strike that manned the picket lines. The known number off Union Strikers was 2 million and 67,000, plus others that supported the strike that also came out on strike, like belfore electy joined the strike today. And the media has been told to play it down, just like they where told to back in march 25th in London, The Unions are the ones that will know the real number that came out on strike, they are the ones that will pay every single striker 1 day strike pay. southy

5:24am Thu 1 Dec 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Good to see that the strike has had no impact other than to boost trade for the retail sector as parents and "strikers" do some christmas shopping and visit the cafes. Reminds me of the train strikes which always seemed to happen during BBQ season....
You have a long memory, I cannot remember a recent serious strike on the railway, the last major one was in 1994 when a Tory Government got involved, interfering in a pay deal between Railtrack and its staff, that is a long story.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Good to see that the strike has had no impact other than to boost trade for the retail sector as parents and "strikers" do some christmas shopping and visit the cafes. Reminds me of the train strikes which always seemed to happen during BBQ season....[/p][/quote]You have a long memory, I cannot remember a recent serious strike on the railway, the last major one was in 1994 when a Tory Government got involved, interfering in a pay deal between Railtrack and its staff, that is a long story. OSPREYSAINT

5:30am Thu 1 Dec 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

IanRRR wrote:
So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed!
Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance.
[quote][p][bold]IanRRR[/bold] wrote: So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed![/p][/quote]Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance. OSPREYSAINT

8:38am Thu 1 Dec 11

The Outside Edge says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IanRRR wrote:
So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed!
Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance.
Well said Osprey
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanRRR[/bold] wrote: So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed![/p][/quote]Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance.[/p][/quote]Well said Osprey The Outside Edge

9:07am Thu 1 Dec 11

andysaints007 says...

peenut81 wrote:
I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything.....
..and now go get a quote to see how much that pension would cost you privately! You might then realise how lucky you really are! I Think you are in for a shock!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: I support the strikers and the unions over this, but it does wind me up to hear them chanting anti-Tory mantra's whilst cheerleading for the Labour party who don't support them? I hope in the 2015 election people en masse pay a bit more attention to politics so we can deal with the larger problems - the decline of the West and environment destruction of the worlds ecosystems, rather than pretending that c.1% cuts here there etc mean anything.....[/p][/quote]..and now go get a quote to see how much that pension would cost you privately! You might then realise how lucky you really are! I Think you are in for a shock!!!!! andysaints007

9:30am Thu 1 Dec 11

freemantlegirl2 says...

The Outside Edge wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IanRRR wrote:
So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed!
Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance.
Well said Osprey
And I third that. And to address the point above they didn't sign up for a private pension did they. And we all know how tens of thousands of people were ripped off with private pensions too by PRIVATE companies/banks!!!

The point is not guilt-edged pensions, a normal teacher pension is only about £10-£15,000 hardly a fortune but it's those staff who are part-time, one lady I was speaking to is just managing to make ends meet but is being asked to contribute £45 extra per month on top of wage freezes (for quite some time now), and all the other cuts that we all endure. She was in tears because she said she can't afford it, would have to freeze her pension and it would be worth practically nothing. Then many others would follow suit and the whole schemes could be in danger as people just cannot afford it! This was not only a day of action for pensions it was people saying that these cuts are hitting ALL public services for you, me and every single member of the public. Whilst people at the banks have STILL picked up bonuses, still had 'golden handshakes' and big companies have got away with big tax breaks and have had huge sums of tax written off. Is that 'we're all in this together'? the public sector workers have already borne the brunt of these cuts, whilst there may be leeway to reduce the final pension and a small contribution rise, contribution rises of such a huge amount just isn't workable or realistic. Instead of slagging off public sector workers and believe me I noticed the strike (but supported it) I had a hospital appointment cancelled, and had three children at home, two of whom have severe learning difficulties. However, I'm unselfish enough Outside Edge to realise that these cuts are going to damage this country and it's workforces (not just in the public sector either) beyond repair.
[quote][p][bold]The Outside Edge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IanRRR[/bold] wrote: So glad to see that absolutely NOTHING of consequence happened on 30th November 2011. No one took any notice, except the usual lot of hot air and posturing! Now go back to work like good boys and girls, because you were hardly noticed, and in most cases, hardly missed![/p][/quote]Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance.[/p][/quote]Well said Osprey[/p][/quote]And I third that. And to address the point above they didn't sign up for a private pension did they. And we all know how tens of thousands of people were ripped off with private pensions too by PRIVATE companies/banks!!! The point is not guilt-edged pensions, a normal teacher pension is only about £10-£15,000 hardly a fortune but it's those staff who are part-time, one lady I was speaking to is just managing to make ends meet but is being asked to contribute £45 extra per month on top of wage freezes (for quite some time now), and all the other cuts that we all endure. She was in tears because she said she can't afford it, would have to freeze her pension and it would be worth practically nothing. Then many others would follow suit and the whole schemes could be in danger as people just cannot afford it! This was not only a day of action for pensions it was people saying that these cuts are hitting ALL public services for you, me and every single member of the public. Whilst people at the banks have STILL picked up bonuses, still had 'golden handshakes' and big companies have got away with big tax breaks and have had huge sums of tax written off. Is that 'we're all in this together'? the public sector workers have already borne the brunt of these cuts, whilst there may be leeway to reduce the final pension and a small contribution rise, contribution rises of such a huge amount just isn't workable or realistic. Instead of slagging off public sector workers and believe me I noticed the strike (but supported it) I had a hospital appointment cancelled, and had three children at home, two of whom have severe learning difficulties. However, I'm unselfish enough Outside Edge to realise that these cuts are going to damage this country and it's workforces (not just in the public sector either) beyond repair. freemantlegirl2

10:12am Thu 1 Dec 11

loosehead says...

I know lets tax the banks,businesses at over 50% of their income & give it to all the people on welfare & public sector workers & don't worry the banks ( multi national) & private companies wont go abroad to Poland where are money subsidise their infrastructure improvements or China or any where East as they're British so we can live in dream world for ever & ever sounds like a fairy tale doesn't it but a lot of you seem to believe it Hit the banks? we own a big portion of the banks so who will we be taxing? hit pay rises? I can see your point but these are people who've been to uni here & are now wanted all over the world so if taxed to high,paid to little they'll go & so will the banks & all the jobs associated with them.
wake up this is the real world.
I saw posters with Clegg & cameron on are you all still thinking this is just a coalition thing? Labour would be doing exactly the same thing Milliband has said so
I know lets tax the banks,businesses at over 50% of their income & give it to all the people on welfare & public sector workers & don't worry the banks ( multi national) & private companies wont go abroad to Poland where are money subsidise their infrastructure improvements or China or any where East as they're British so we can live in dream world for ever & ever sounds like a fairy tale doesn't it but a lot of you seem to believe it Hit the banks? we own a big portion of the banks so who will we be taxing? hit pay rises? I can see your point but these are people who've been to uni here & are now wanted all over the world so if taxed to high,paid to little they'll go & so will the banks & all the jobs associated with them. wake up this is the real world. I saw posters with Clegg & cameron on are you all still thinking this is just a coalition thing? Labour would be doing exactly the same thing Milliband has said so loosehead

11:32am Thu 1 Dec 11

George4th says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out!
>
Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country.
>
Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever!
(Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)
2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today.

In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers.
That's about 1.3% of Southampton's population! If you multiply that up against the total population it works out at about 600,000. Even the BBC is now talking in 100s of thousands!
It don't work like that George4th, Southampton City is not class as a big city only a medium size city. plus that 3000 public services strikers are only the ones that turned up for the demo and rally, there will be others that went on strike that manned the picket lines.
The known number off Union Strikers was 2 million and 67,000, plus others that supported the strike that also came out on strike, like belfore electy joined the strike today.
And the media has been told to play it down, just like they where told to back in march 25th in London,

The Unions are the ones that will know the real number that came out on strike, they are the ones that will pay every single striker 1 day strike pay.
Southy, I think you will concur that the turn out yesterday was less than 50% of the Union predicted numbers of 2 million. The result was of no more interest than some guy breaking the cornish pasty eating world record!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: Looks like today's strike was a lot less effective than the media was originally saying - not even 1 million out! > Learn the lesson from other countries - it's a complete waste of time and is financially damaging to this country. > Stop blaming the bankers - hardly any banks got into trouble except for the usual suspects - most global banks were untouched! Out ills lay fairly and squarely with the last government who will go down in history as the worst holders of the nations purse strings, ever! (Still, don't worry because Tony and his cronies all walked away with massive investment portfolios, big pensions and the royalties from their books and a fortune from personal appearances!!)[/p][/quote]2 million 300 out on strike today, and thats counting private and public sectors that came out on strike today. In Southampton there was 3,000 alone. and we was one of the smaller numbers.[/p][/quote]That's about 1.3% of Southampton's population! If you multiply that up against the total population it works out at about 600,000. Even the BBC is now talking in 100s of thousands![/p][/quote]It don't work like that George4th, Southampton City is not class as a big city only a medium size city. plus that 3000 public services strikers are only the ones that turned up for the demo and rally, there will be others that went on strike that manned the picket lines. The known number off Union Strikers was 2 million and 67,000, plus others that supported the strike that also came out on strike, like belfore electy joined the strike today. And the media has been told to play it down, just like they where told to back in march 25th in London, The Unions are the ones that will know the real number that came out on strike, they are the ones that will pay every single striker 1 day strike pay.[/p][/quote]Southy, I think you will concur that the turn out yesterday was less than 50% of the Union predicted numbers of 2 million. The result was of no more interest than some guy breaking the cornish pasty eating world record! George4th

2:03am Fri 2 Dec 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

loosehead wrote:
I know lets tax the banks,businesses at over 50% of their income & give it to all the people on welfare & public sector workers & don't worry the banks ( multi national) & private companies wont go abroad to Poland where are money subsidise their infrastructure improvements or China or any where East as they're British so we can live in dream world for ever & ever sounds like a fairy tale doesn't it but a lot of you seem to believe it Hit the banks? we own a big portion of the banks so who will we be taxing? hit pay rises? I can see your point but these are people who've been to uni here & are now wanted all over the world so if taxed to high,paid to little they'll go & so will the banks & all the jobs associated with them. wake up this is the real world. I saw posters with Clegg & cameron on are you all still thinking this is just a coalition thing? Labour would be doing exactly the same thing Milliband has said so
Yes, but this is "new Labour" who cannot even bring themselves to support their "paymasters", probably an attempt to attract the "blue rinse" vote.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I know lets tax the banks,businesses at over 50% of their income & give it to all the people on welfare & public sector workers & don't worry the banks ( multi national) & private companies wont go abroad to Poland where are money subsidise their infrastructure improvements or China or any where East as they're British so we can live in dream world for ever & ever sounds like a fairy tale doesn't it but a lot of you seem to believe it Hit the banks? we own a big portion of the banks so who will we be taxing? hit pay rises? I can see your point but these are people who've been to uni here & are now wanted all over the world so if taxed to high,paid to little they'll go & so will the banks & all the jobs associated with them. wake up this is the real world. I saw posters with Clegg & cameron on are you all still thinking this is just a coalition thing? Labour would be doing exactly the same thing Milliband has said so[/p][/quote]Yes, but this is "new Labour" who cannot even bring themselves to support their "paymasters", probably an attempt to attract the "blue rinse" vote. OSPREYSAINT

7:20am Fri 2 Dec 11

bigfella777 says...

I do sympathise with them but i wish they knew what it was like in the real world with no pension at all.
I do sympathise with them but i wish they knew what it was like in the real world with no pension at all. bigfella777

7:20am Fri 2 Dec 11

bigfella777 says...

I do sympathise with them but i wish they knew what it was like in the real world with no pension at all.
I do sympathise with them but i wish they knew what it was like in the real world with no pension at all. bigfella777

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