Nursery in biomass power station plan (From Daily Echo)

Burning rubbish, onsite, to produce power for the site, to produce food, which people can eat. On the face of it, sounds great. No landfill, no transport costs, reduced CO2 footprint by reducing energy bills, no methane production from rotting waste. Helping keep this industry competitive thereby safeguarding local (albeit not terribly well paid) jobs.

I'm sure that wealthy local residents and the society of verderers will have something to say about it, though.

It doesn't say what it will be burning, as legislation is around 'burning' of rubbish at the moment on certain scales... they need to be clear about 'what' they are burning and what the 'minimal impact' is but credit to them for consulting with residents which is more than Helius did!

Helius have claimed that they had 3 designs from the start, which they clearly did not, and still haven't come up with it, but it clearly is on a much much bigger scale than this. YOu can get domestic biomass burners....

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
It doesn't say what it will be burning, as legislation is around 'burning' of rubbish at the moment on certain scales... they need to be clear about 'what' they are burning and what the 'minimal impact' is but credit to them for consulting with residents which is more than Helius did! Helius have claimed that they had 3 designs from the start, which they clearly did not, and still haven't come up with it, but it clearly is on a much much bigger scale than this. YOu can get domestic biomass burners....

Yes, good point- I had assumed that they would be burning their own agricultural waste. But, cynical though I am, I hadn't considered the point that they might be burning stuff from elsewhere.

Domestic biomass burner- is that what we used to call a garden waste bonfire?

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
It doesn't say what it will be burning, as legislation is around 'burning' of rubbish at the moment on certain scales... they need to be clear about 'what' they are burning and what the 'minimal impact' is but credit to them for consulting with residents which is more than Helius did!

Helius have claimed that they had 3 designs from the start, which they clearly did not, and still haven't come up with it, but it clearly is on a much much bigger scale than this. YOu can get domestic biomass burners....

As one of those also active in opposing Helius's proposals, I must say on first impressions this may be a biomass proposal that could get my support. It’s much smaller (20,000 v 800,000 tonnes) and has an element of CHP.

But certain assurances are still needed, particularly in respect of: -
1) Fuel to be local – not imported from the proverbial 4 corners of the world.
2) Fuel to be ‘clean’ – i.e. not to be used as a cheap way to disposal of mdf, chipboard, treated timber and other used materials impregnated with chemicals capable of producing dioxins, furans, pcb’s and other damaging chemicals in the exhaust stack/fly ash.
3) State of the art emissions control.
4) All heat to be fully utilised – not wasted if more than the nursery can use.

So, basically, more information needed.

So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

Funny reading on here the two arguments the wood was coming from sustainable forests/sources.
It was also said they would move to a local(UK) source so kinda knocks your argument doesn't it?
We've had anti bio mass on here who've talked about Nuclear power? I would as a citizen of this city rather take a chance with Bio mass than have a potential nuclear bomb /disaster on my doorstep

20,000 tonnes of wood a year????
So that will come from Scotland or imported from Russia/Poland eh?

Very GreeBut presumably a lot cheaper than the oil giants make us pay for fuel

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

Funny reading on here the two arguments the wood was coming from sustainable forests/sources.
It was also said they would move to a local(UK) source so kinda knocks your argument doesn't it?
We've had anti bio mass on here who've talked about Nuclear power? I would as a citizen of this city rather take a chance with Bio mass than have a potential nuclear bomb /disaster on my doorstep

No, as I have explained to you before, Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production. It's location in the docks is a bit of a giveaway I would have thought.

And, while nuclear has its dangers, 'a potential nuclear bomb' is NOT one of them.

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

Funny reading on here the two arguments the wood was coming from sustainable forests/sources.
It was also said they would move to a local(UK) source so kinda knocks your argument doesn't it?
We've had anti bio mass on here who've talked about Nuclear power? I would as a citizen of this city rather take a chance with Bio mass than have a potential nuclear bomb /disaster on my doorstep

Sorry if this disturbs you, but Soton receives frequent visits from Nuclear submarines- not a potential nuclear bomb/disaster, but an actual one...

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

Funny reading on here the two arguments the wood was coming from sustainable forests/sources.
It was also said they would move to a local(UK) source so kinda knocks your argument doesn't it?
We've had anti bio mass on here who've talked about Nuclear power? I would as a citizen of this city rather take a chance with Bio mass than have a potential nuclear bomb /disaster on my doorstep

No, as I have explained to you before, Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production. It's location in the docks is a bit of a giveaway I would have thought.

And, while nuclear has its dangers, 'a potential nuclear bomb' is NOT one of them.

Chernbyl, Japan, America yes Nuclear's so safe isn't it?
As explained before when looking at the increase of fuel they interviewed a company that transports waste wood for export but were looking for a UK wood burning plant to sell it to to safe money so why couldn't this be used especially with a train station & rail tracks right next to the new plant?

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

Funny reading on here the two arguments the wood was coming from sustainable forests/sources.
It was also said they would move to a local(UK) source so kinda knocks your argument doesn't it?
We've had anti bio mass on here who've talked about Nuclear power? I would as a citizen of this city rather take a chance with Bio mass than have a potential nuclear bomb /disaster on my doorstep

No, as I have explained to you before, Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production. It's location in the docks is a bit of a giveaway I would have thought.

And, while nuclear has its dangers, 'a potential nuclear bomb' is NOT one of them.

Chernbyl, Japan, America yes Nuclear's so safe isn't it?
As explained before when looking at the increase of fuel they interviewed a company that transports waste wood for export but were looking for a UK wood burning plant to sell it to to safe money so why couldn't this be used especially with a train station & rail tracks right next to the new plant?

.. oh dear, you don't actually read what I say, do you?

I'm no fan of nuclear power and you are right to point out a few of its disasters - you forgot our own Windscale 1957 (so bad they renamed it Sellafield). However, nuclear reactors are NOT the same as nuclear bombs and are NOT capable of producing a nuclear bomb type explosion. Basic science.

What part of ‘Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production’ do you not understand?

Whatever you may think you heard, on whatever interview, this is the undeniable situation at present. Wishing and hoping will not change it.

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

Funny reading on here the two arguments the wood was coming from sustainable forests/sources.
It was also said they would move to a local(UK) source so kinda knocks your argument doesn't it?
We've had anti bio mass on here who've talked about Nuclear power? I would as a citizen of this city rather take a chance with Bio mass than have a potential nuclear bomb /disaster on my doorstep

No, as I have explained to you before, Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production. It's location in the docks is a bit of a giveaway I would have thought.

And, while nuclear has its dangers, 'a potential nuclear bomb' is NOT one of them.

Chernbyl, Japan, America yes Nuclear's so safe isn't it?
As explained before when looking at the increase of fuel they interviewed a company that transports waste wood for export but were looking for a UK wood burning plant to sell it to to safe money so why couldn't this be used especially with a train station & rail tracks right next to the new plant?

.. oh dear, you don't actually read what I say, do you?

I'm no fan of nuclear power and you are right to point out a few of its disasters - you forgot our own Windscale 1957 (so bad they renamed it Sellafield). However, nuclear reactors are NOT the same as nuclear bombs and are NOT capable of producing a nuclear bomb type explosion. Basic science.

What part of ‘Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production’ do you not understand?

Whatever you may think you heard, on whatever interview, this is the undeniable situation at present. Wishing and hoping will not change it.

But did you read exactly what I said?
this Bio Mass could run on waste wood not just wood chip can't it?
I asked what would happen if they saw this & then put proposals forward for a smaller plant would you then vote yes?
I'm sorry to see your mis informed about waste wood,The forestry commission has said they & private land owners would quite happily grow/plant more trees if there was a market for them so that could be the answer.

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freefinker wrote:

loosehead wrote:
So if Helius read the above posts & come up with a proposal for a smaller plant the No campaign will cease or is it okay as it's not in your back yard?

.. Helius proposal is NOT in my backyard.
However, it's 40 times bigger, relies on worldwide imports of wood fuel and is only financially viable because of a rigged market. It is little better than burning oil and will encourage increasing rates of deforestation.

Funny reading on here the two arguments the wood was coming from sustainable forests/sources.
It was also said they would move to a local(UK) source so kinda knocks your argument doesn't it?
We've had anti bio mass on here who've talked about Nuclear power? I would as a citizen of this city rather take a chance with Bio mass than have a potential nuclear bomb /disaster on my doorstep

No, as I have explained to you before, Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production. It's location in the docks is a bit of a giveaway I would have thought.

And, while nuclear has its dangers, 'a potential nuclear bomb' is NOT one of them.

Chernbyl, Japan, America yes Nuclear's so safe isn't it?
As explained before when looking at the increase of fuel they interviewed a company that transports waste wood for export but were looking for a UK wood burning plant to sell it to to safe money so why couldn't this be used especially with a train station & rail tracks right next to the new plant?

.. oh dear, you don't actually read what I say, do you?

I'm no fan of nuclear power and you are right to point out a few of its disasters - you forgot our own Windscale 1957 (so bad they renamed it Sellafield). However, nuclear reactors are NOT the same as nuclear bombs and are NOT capable of producing a nuclear bomb type explosion. Basic science.

What part of ‘Helius DO NOT envisage sourcing their wood chips from the UK. There is just not enough available from UK forestry production’ do you not understand?

Whatever you may think you heard, on whatever interview, this is the undeniable situation at present. Wishing and hoping will not change it.

But did you read exactly what I said?
this Bio Mass could run on waste wood not just wood chip can't it?
I asked what would happen if they saw this & then put proposals forward for a smaller plant would you then vote yes?
I'm sorry to see your mis informed about waste wood,The forestry commission has said they & private land owners would quite happily grow/plant more trees if there was a market for them so that could be the answer.

.. and what do you mean by "waste wood"?

If you mean the brash from forestry activities, this is EXACTLY the fuel stock Helius are talking about - except sourced worldwide and shipped to Southampton. Yes, there is some also available from the UK but it is an insignificant amount compared to the throughput proposed for the Helius plant; and it’s collection and delivery would exceed the cost of imports.

If, however you mean waste wood from building demolition, old furniture, etc. then there are two problems. Firstly the cost of chipping, UK wide collection and delivery would make it uneconomic. Secondly, this is just the kind of waste (impregnated as it is by various chemicals and often clad in laminates) that will produce a veritable cocktail of harmful carcinogenic compounds if burnt at the temperatures envisaged by Helius. The necessary abatement equipment required for obtaining a licence to burn such waste would almost certainly make the Helius proposal totally uneconomic for the small proportion of feedstock that could be supplied. A smaller facility would be even more uneconomic.

Yet again I have to inform you that Helius have absolutely no intention of losing money by taking up your suggestions.

Remember loosehead, Helius are proposing a power station not a municipal waste incinerator.

There is HUGE difference in operating temperatures, pollution abatement equipment and regulatory requirements for these two very different facilities.