Southampton City Councillors asked to approve 329 flats and 225 jobs at Centenary Quay

An artist's vision of what Centenary Quay in Woolston will look like.

An artist's vision of what Centenary Quay in Woolston will look like.

First published in News Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Politics and business reporter

THE next phase of Southampton ’s largest housing development is set to be given the green light today – including a supermarket bringing 225 jobs.

Councillors will be asked to approve plans for 329 flats, a 60,000 sq ft food store and other shops, bars and restaurants around a civic square at the development going up on the former Vosper Thornycroft site in Woolston .

The developer, Crest Nicholson, said it would provide a “vibrant commercial hub” for the £500m, 31-acre development, Centenary Quay.

The proposed food store will create 225 part and full-time jobs, of which three-quarters are likely to be recruited locally. Around half the jobs are set to go to under-25s.

The name of the proposed operator has yet to be announced, but it is thought that Morrisons has been lined up to move on to the site.

The grocer also has plans for a supermarket development at East Street in the city centre.

Some residents remain opposed to the development, claiming the latest proposed buildings, up to 12 storeys high, are out of character with Woolston and too many homes are being crammed on to the site. They also claim there is no need for a second supermarket in Woolston. There is already a Co-op nearby.

Hampshire Chamber of Commerce welcomed the latest planning application, which it said would continue to regenerate Woolston and provide much-needed affordable housing. It added that the supermarket should bring extra shoppers to the existing district centre in Woolston.

Crest Nicholson has already built 160 of the 1,620 homes it has earmarked for the site following earlier planning permission for the first 328 homes. Construction work on a new library, nursery and 168 new homes at the end of Victoria Road, linking the development with the district centre in Woolston, will be officially launched on Friday.

Three waterfront towers, rising to 25 storeys, will be among the final parts of the development to be built.

It is due to be completed in 2018.

Comments (27)

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11:08am Tue 24 Jul 12

bigfella777 says...

I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities.
Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes. bigfella777
  • Score: 0

11:09am Tue 24 Jul 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

So far I have been extremely disappointed with the housing development on the old ship yard.
.
I hope they can get the commercial development looking a lot better than the accommodation that has been on offer and at 185k for a 2 bed terrace is not what I would call great value for first time buyers.
.
I do however like the idea of the energy centers that have also been included into the development.
.
A decent supermarket and a nice selection of bars and restaurants on the waterfront may make up for the so far bland design of housing and flats.
So far I have been extremely disappointed with the housing development on the old ship yard. . I hope they can get the commercial development looking a lot better than the accommodation that has been on offer and at 185k for a 2 bed terrace is not what I would call great value for first time buyers. . I do however like the idea of the energy centers that have also been included into the development. . A decent supermarket and a nice selection of bars and restaurants on the waterfront may make up for the so far bland design of housing and flats. UKIPsouthampton
  • Score: 0

11:13am Tue 24 Jul 12

loosehead says...

Not much chance of this one being stopped as it was a Labour scheme wasn't it?
Why though when the local Labour councillor went on marches against this scheme wasn't it stopped like the Tory initiative in Townhill Park?
Those marches were all about whipping up anti tory feelings amongst the voters did the Labour councillor ever tell them that the tories had actually cut the amount of housing due to the lack of car spaces?
Or indeed this was a Labour project from the start & he was no more than a hypocrite?
Not much chance of this one being stopped as it was a Labour scheme wasn't it? Why though when the local Labour councillor went on marches against this scheme wasn't it stopped like the Tory initiative in Townhill Park? Those marches were all about whipping up anti tory feelings amongst the voters did the Labour councillor ever tell them that the tories had actually cut the amount of housing due to the lack of car spaces? Or indeed this was a Labour project from the start & he was no more than a hypocrite? loosehead
  • Score: 0

11:16am Tue 24 Jul 12

Coop64 says...

Spent 6 months there and moved out. They had not completed the block properly, they were untidy and poor after care services. Even had my car damaged by one of their signposts in a storm. They declined to foot the bill even though it was negelect on there part. Would advise anyone not to move there.
Spent 6 months there and moved out. They had not completed the block properly, they were untidy and poor after care services. Even had my car damaged by one of their signposts in a storm. They declined to foot the bill even though it was negelect on there part. Would advise anyone not to move there. Coop64
  • Score: 0

11:21am Tue 24 Jul 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

bigfella777 wrote:
I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though. UKIPsouthampton
  • Score: 0

11:33am Tue 24 Jul 12

chunky_lover says...

This is excellent news. Lets really push for a Waitrose :-)
This is excellent news. Lets really push for a Waitrose :-) chunky_lover
  • Score: 0

12:00pm Tue 24 Jul 12

arthur dalyrimple says...

need to do something about those weeds on the roof.
need to do something about those weeds on the roof. arthur dalyrimple
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Tue 24 Jul 12

bigfella says...

329 flats. So with those all given to imigrants at 8 people per household minimum that'll be another 2600+ people putting strain on the infrastructure of the community. Any more schools doctors surgeries or job centre's being built to accommodate?
329 flats. So with those all given to imigrants at 8 people per household minimum that'll be another 2600+ people putting strain on the infrastructure of the community. Any more schools doctors surgeries or job centre's being built to accommodate? bigfella
  • Score: 0

12:16pm Tue 24 Jul 12

chunky_lover says...

bigfella wrote:
329 flats. So with those all given to imigrants at 8 people per household minimum that'll be another 2600+ people putting strain on the infrastructure of the community. Any more schools doctors surgeries or job centre's being built to accommodate?
No, because they will be going to work everyday! P.S. Job centres are for the unemployed !
[quote][p][bold]bigfella[/bold] wrote: 329 flats. So with those all given to imigrants at 8 people per household minimum that'll be another 2600+ people putting strain on the infrastructure of the community. Any more schools doctors surgeries or job centre's being built to accommodate?[/p][/quote]No, because they will be going to work everyday! P.S. Job centres are for the unemployed ! chunky_lover
  • Score: 0

12:21pm Tue 24 Jul 12

andysaints007 says...

UKIPsouthampton wrote:
bigfella777 wrote:
I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work!
[quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.[/p][/quote]Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work! andysaints007
  • Score: 0

12:31pm Tue 24 Jul 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
bigfella777 wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work!
The middle class structure is very similar.
[quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.[/p][/quote]Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work![/p][/quote]The middle class structure is very similar. UKIPsouthampton
  • Score: 0

1:05pm Tue 24 Jul 12

Mikkaelson says...

Hmmm all the jobs go to the under 25's but will any of the flats? I'm 31, no debts, 30k per year income yet STILL not on the property ladder.
Hmmm all the jobs go to the under 25's but will any of the flats? I'm 31, no debts, 30k per year income yet STILL not on the property ladder. Mikkaelson
  • Score: 0

1:06pm Tue 24 Jul 12

bigfella777 says...

bigfella wrote:
329 flats. So with those all given to imigrants at 8 people per household minimum that'll be another 2600+ people putting strain on the infrastructure of the community. Any more schools doctors surgeries or job centre's being built to accommodate?
I would just like to make it clear that myself and this other bigfella are not the same people.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella[/bold] wrote: 329 flats. So with those all given to imigrants at 8 people per household minimum that'll be another 2600+ people putting strain on the infrastructure of the community. Any more schools doctors surgeries or job centre's being built to accommodate?[/p][/quote]I would just like to make it clear that myself and this other bigfella are not the same people. bigfella777
  • Score: 0

1:07pm Tue 24 Jul 12

elvisimo says...

UKIPsouthampton wrote:
andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
bigfella777 wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work!
The middle class structure is very similar.
Big difference abroad is they show interest in what they buy. Uk supermarkets are full of instant food and ready meals. Supermarkets in France, Spain, Portugal etc are full of fresh ingredients of all shapes and sizes.
The decline of markets and high street individual retailers is due to a culture of laziness. People will not make the effort when they can park their car as close as possible to a supermarkets door, pile their trolleys high with microwave curries, mechanically recovered meat products, sausage rolls with a few 2 for a fiver bottles of blossom hill and go home and sit in front of the tv.
One of the principle reasons why a large part of our population is so fat.

P.s. the front runner for the supermarket is indeed waitrose
[quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.[/p][/quote]Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work![/p][/quote]The middle class structure is very similar.[/p][/quote]Big difference abroad is they show interest in what they buy. Uk supermarkets are full of instant food and ready meals. Supermarkets in France, Spain, Portugal etc are full of fresh ingredients of all shapes and sizes. The decline of markets and high street individual retailers is due to a culture of laziness. People will not make the effort when they can park their car as close as possible to a supermarkets door, pile their trolleys high with microwave curries, mechanically recovered meat products, sausage rolls with a few 2 for a fiver bottles of blossom hill and go home and sit in front of the tv. One of the principle reasons why a large part of our population is so fat. P.s. the front runner for the supermarket is indeed waitrose elvisimo
  • Score: 0

1:38pm Tue 24 Jul 12

andysaints007 says...

UKIPsouthampton wrote:
andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
bigfella777 wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work!
The middle class structure is very similar.
I think you are missing the point!
[quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.[/p][/quote]Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work![/p][/quote]The middle class structure is very similar.[/p][/quote]I think you are missing the point! andysaints007
  • Score: 0

1:45pm Tue 24 Jul 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

Mikkaelson wrote:
Hmmm all the jobs go to the under 25's but will any of the flats? I'm 31, no debts, 30k per year income yet STILL not on the property ladder.
What deposit do you have? Have you looked into 95% New Buy scheme?
[quote][p][bold]Mikkaelson[/bold] wrote: Hmmm all the jobs go to the under 25's but will any of the flats? I'm 31, no debts, 30k per year income yet STILL not on the property ladder.[/p][/quote]What deposit do you have? Have you looked into 95% New Buy scheme? UKIPsouthampton
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Tue 24 Jul 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
bigfella777 wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work!
The middle class structure is very similar.
I think you are missing the point!
No I concur, Woolston isn't in France.
[quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.[/p][/quote]Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work![/p][/quote]The middle class structure is very similar.[/p][/quote]I think you are missing the point![/p][/quote]No I concur, Woolston isn't in France. UKIPsouthampton
  • Score: 0

1:49pm Tue 24 Jul 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

elvisimo wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
bigfella777 wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work!
The middle class structure is very similar.
Big difference abroad is they show interest in what they buy. Uk supermarkets are full of instant food and ready meals. Supermarkets in France, Spain, Portugal etc are full of fresh ingredients of all shapes and sizes. The decline of markets and high street individual retailers is due to a culture of laziness. People will not make the effort when they can park their car as close as possible to a supermarkets door, pile their trolleys high with microwave curries, mechanically recovered meat products, sausage rolls with a few 2 for a fiver bottles of blossom hill and go home and sit in front of the tv. One of the principle reasons why a large part of our population is so fat. P.s. the front runner for the supermarket is indeed waitrose
You are not talking about the Middle Class there though are you, this demographic is overly concerned with getting their 5 a day and buying fresh and organic produce.
[quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.[/p][/quote]Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work![/p][/quote]The middle class structure is very similar.[/p][/quote]Big difference abroad is they show interest in what they buy. Uk supermarkets are full of instant food and ready meals. Supermarkets in France, Spain, Portugal etc are full of fresh ingredients of all shapes and sizes. The decline of markets and high street individual retailers is due to a culture of laziness. People will not make the effort when they can park their car as close as possible to a supermarkets door, pile their trolleys high with microwave curries, mechanically recovered meat products, sausage rolls with a few 2 for a fiver bottles of blossom hill and go home and sit in front of the tv. One of the principle reasons why a large part of our population is so fat. P.s. the front runner for the supermarket is indeed waitrose[/p][/quote]You are not talking about the Middle Class there though are you, this demographic is overly concerned with getting their 5 a day and buying fresh and organic produce. UKIPsouthampton
  • Score: 0

2:14pm Tue 24 Jul 12

southy says...

Loose this might intrest you and others that live close to the pool.

PUBLIC MEETING
Save Oakland's Swimming Pool
Lordshill Church
Lordshill District Centre
Lordshill
Friday 10th August at 7pm
Loose this might intrest you and others that live close to the pool. PUBLIC MEETING Save Oakland's Swimming Pool Lordshill Church Lordshill District Centre Lordshill Friday 10th August at 7pm southy
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Tue 24 Jul 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
Loose this might intrest you and others that live close to the pool.

PUBLIC MEETING
Save Oakland's Swimming Pool
Lordshill Church
Lordshill District Centre
Lordshill
Friday 10th August at 7pm
Stop spamming us with this.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Loose this might intrest you and others that live close to the pool. PUBLIC MEETING Save Oakland's Swimming Pool Lordshill Church Lordshill District Centre Lordshill Friday 10th August at 7pm[/p][/quote]Stop spamming us with this. Georgem
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Tue 24 Jul 12

G0Rf says...

Bring back the floating bridge, how are the already congested roads going to cope with the extra traffic?
Bring back the floating bridge, how are the already congested roads going to cope with the extra traffic? G0Rf
  • Score: 0

2:48pm Tue 24 Jul 12

bigal007 says...

G0Rf wrote:
Bring back the floating bridge, how are the already congested roads going to cope with the extra traffic?
NOW THATS GOING BACK IN TIME
[quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: Bring back the floating bridge, how are the already congested roads going to cope with the extra traffic?[/p][/quote]NOW THATS GOING BACK IN TIME bigal007
  • Score: 0

3:01pm Tue 24 Jul 12

OceansofRed says...

Nice idea big fella but no one is going to pay those prices. The people in Wollston want the lowest common demoninater.
Nice idea big fella but no one is going to pay those prices. The people in Wollston want the lowest common demoninater. OceansofRed
  • Score: 0

5:30pm Tue 24 Jul 12

Condor Man says...

I can't see Morrisons going to Woolston, the site isn't large enough for one of their stores. Woolston certainly needs another supermarket.
I can't see Morrisons going to Woolston, the site isn't large enough for one of their stores. Woolston certainly needs another supermarket. Condor Man
  • Score: 0

6:22pm Tue 24 Jul 12

100%HANTSBOY says...

Original story posted by DE at 11.00a.m....... any news on the decision yet? Or has everyone gone home!
Original story posted by DE at 11.00a.m....... any news on the decision yet? Or has everyone gone home! 100%HANTSBOY
  • Score: 0

8:20pm Tue 24 Jul 12

lordshill loyal says...

nice one southy.ALL ARE WELCOME.SAVE OAKLANDS SWIMMING POOL.
nice one southy.ALL ARE WELCOME.SAVE OAKLANDS SWIMMING POOL. lordshill loyal
  • Score: 0

8:51pm Tue 24 Jul 12

andysaints007 says...

UKIPsouthampton wrote:
andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
andysaints007 wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
bigfella777 wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.
I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.
Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work!
The middle class structure is very similar.
I think you are missing the point!
No I concur, Woolston isn't in France.
So what was the point in comparing them then?
[quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I bet that will be Tesco.One supermarket is enough,how about a proper market hall where you can buy decent fresh produce from local traders and let them employ themselves and pay rent for their pitch similar to what you find in european cities. Everyone would love that and you wouldnt have monster trucks hairing up Peartree avenue every 5 minutes.[/p][/quote]I believe this is done succesfully in France. The rumours I have heard is that it will be a Waitrose though.[/p][/quote]Woolston ain't France though is it! We don't have the same culture so it probably would not work![/p][/quote]The middle class structure is very similar.[/p][/quote]I think you are missing the point![/p][/quote]No I concur, Woolston isn't in France.[/p][/quote]So what was the point in comparing them then? andysaints007
  • Score: 0

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