Comments (22)

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3:33pm Thu 23 Aug 12

sarfhamton says...

The Echo loves a traveller story don't they?
The Echo loves a traveller story don't they? sarfhamton
  • Score: 0

3:37pm Thu 23 Aug 12

boobooj says...

Just run them off into the next county haha!
Just run them off into the next county haha! boobooj
  • Score: 0

3:52pm Thu 23 Aug 12

hulla baloo says...

They dont usually try that hard so is there a councillor living nearby?
They dont usually try that hard so is there a councillor living nearby? hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

4:00pm Thu 23 Aug 12

Forest Resident says...

Whilst not condoning the travellers actions, anything that gets up the nose of the little Hitler's running the New Forest Campsites can only be a good thing. Since this private company (Camping In The Forest) was brought in prices have gone skyward and facilities run down with campers being packed in like sardines. You reap what you sow.
Whilst not condoning the travellers actions, anything that gets up the nose of the little Hitler's running the New Forest Campsites can only be a good thing. Since this private company (Camping In The Forest) was brought in prices have gone skyward and facilities run down with campers being packed in like sardines. You reap what you sow. Forest Resident
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Thu 23 Aug 12

The Wickham Man says...

Let's hope these plods have more spine than the ones in Fareham who told a council worker to unlock a barrier "so the travellers could turn round". So he did and whoomph! The pikeys were in and in no time at all were dumping rubbish and excrement all over the playing field. It took a week to get rid of them. I'll bet even now there are ten coppers stood round with a police inspector so terrified of breaching the travellers human rights they are only allowed to prevent a breach of the peace committed by an angry member of the public.
Let's hope these plods have more spine than the ones in Fareham who told a council worker to unlock a barrier "so the travellers could turn round". So he did and whoomph! The pikeys were in and in no time at all were dumping rubbish and excrement all over the playing field. It took a week to get rid of them. I'll bet even now there are ten coppers stood round with a police inspector so terrified of breaching the travellers human rights they are only allowed to prevent a breach of the peace committed by an angry member of the public. The Wickham Man
  • Score: 0

4:19pm Thu 23 Aug 12

miss sunshine says...

What about the camp they have set up, up at the south winchester park and ride??? Nothing seems to be happening about this one.
What about the camp they have set up, up at the south winchester park and ride??? Nothing seems to be happening about this one. miss sunshine
  • Score: 0

4:52pm Thu 23 Aug 12

gazdance says...

That one is in the hands of the council to sort out an eviction order. Not everything is up to the police to sort out, Miss Sunshine.

You could argue that one is better placed than most, far away from any residents who'd get upset and crime has hardly spiked in the area since they arrived.
That one is in the hands of the council to sort out an eviction order. Not everything is up to the police to sort out, Miss Sunshine. You could argue that one is better placed than most, far away from any residents who'd get upset and crime has hardly spiked in the area since they arrived. gazdance
  • Score: 0

5:39pm Thu 23 Aug 12

Higginz says...

Can't be very good at travelling if they're looking to 'move in'.
Can't be very good at travelling if they're looking to 'move in'. Higginz
  • Score: 0

5:49pm Thu 23 Aug 12

opera phantom says...

Just soak them with water until they get fed up. But of course then their human rights would be violated. Rights that decent folk don't seem to have.
Having said that. If you want to guarantee that the police will respond when you ring them. Just say some one has made a racist comment to you and
half the force will turn up.
Just soak them with water until they get fed up. But of course then their human rights would be violated. Rights that decent folk don't seem to have. Having said that. If you want to guarantee that the police will respond when you ring them. Just say some one has made a racist comment to you and half the force will turn up. opera phantom
  • Score: 0

7:09pm Thu 23 Aug 12

memush says...

what do they mean---trying---just b----- do it
what do they mean---trying---just b----- do it memush
  • Score: 0

7:18pm Thu 23 Aug 12

KA says...

The Police dont care when they move on to private land .. they do nothing.. but council lands a different matter... makes me sick..
The Police dont care when they move on to private land .. they do nothing.. but council lands a different matter... makes me sick.. KA
  • Score: 0

7:27pm Thu 23 Aug 12

SotonLad says...

KA wrote:
The Police dont care when they move on to private land .. they do nothing.. but council lands a different matter... makes me sick..
That's cause it's civil, not criminal.
[quote][p][bold]KA[/bold] wrote: The Police dont care when they move on to private land .. they do nothing.. but council lands a different matter... makes me sick..[/p][/quote]That's cause it's civil, not criminal. SotonLad
  • Score: 0

9:19pm Thu 23 Aug 12

J.P.M says...

My pippy is a badger. He doesn't come into the house much, since we got the ocelots.
My pippy is a badger. He doesn't come into the house much, since we got the ocelots. J.P.M
  • Score: 0

10:00pm Thu 23 Aug 12

BillyTheKid says...

The Wickham Man wrote:
gazdance wrote:
That one is in the hands of the council to sort out an eviction order. Not everything is up to the police to sort out, Miss Sunshine.

You could argue that one is better placed than most, far away from any residents who'd get upset and crime has hardly spiked in the area since they arrived.
You could argue that until they learn to leave a place like they found it they deserve to be hounded endlessly from wherever they are until they do learn. It's not a hard lesson. This is less about romanies who were never a real problem and more about the Irish tinker "culture" - a culture that consists of illiteracy, brutality, theft, burglary lying, disrespect of women (once they marry them) ill treatment of animals.......Move them on.
Don't you see that your hatred of travellers only makes them feel isolated and alienated ? If you want them to show you respect, you have to show them respect. Embrace them. Welcome them. Once you know them by name, you can ask them to clear up their rubbish. And if they don't, THEN get moody with them.

Remember the kids at school that always got bullied ? They didn't like you either, and certainly never did anyone any favours.

Remember the "Godfather" quote : Stay close to your friends, but closer to your enemies.
[quote][p][bold]The Wickham Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gazdance[/bold] wrote: That one is in the hands of the council to sort out an eviction order. Not everything is up to the police to sort out, Miss Sunshine. You could argue that one is better placed than most, far away from any residents who'd get upset and crime has hardly spiked in the area since they arrived.[/p][/quote]You could argue that until they learn to leave a place like they found it they deserve to be hounded endlessly from wherever they are until they do learn. It's not a hard lesson. This is less about romanies who were never a real problem and more about the Irish tinker "culture" - a culture that consists of illiteracy, brutality, theft, burglary lying, disrespect of women (once they marry them) ill treatment of animals.......Move them on.[/p][/quote]Don't you see that your hatred of travellers only makes them feel isolated and alienated ? If you want them to show you respect, you have to show them respect. Embrace them. Welcome them. Once you know them by name, you can ask them to clear up their rubbish. And if they don't, THEN get moody with them. Remember the kids at school that always got bullied ? They didn't like you either, and certainly never did anyone any favours. Remember the "Godfather" quote : Stay close to your friends, but closer to your enemies. BillyTheKid
  • Score: 0

10:16pm Thu 23 Aug 12

Huffter says...

Can't see what's wrong with setting up camp at a campsite - isn't that what they're for?
Can't see what's wrong with setting up camp at a campsite - isn't that what they're for? Huffter
  • Score: 0

11:16pm Thu 23 Aug 12

BillyTheKid says...

Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you.

I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle.

And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.
Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment. BillyTheKid
  • Score: 0

8:41am Fri 24 Aug 12

jammyswine says...

BillyTheKid wrote:
Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.
Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.
[quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.[/p][/quote]Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps. jammyswine
  • Score: 0

12:10pm Fri 24 Aug 12

BillyTheKid says...

jammyswine wrote:
BillyTheKid wrote:
Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.
Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.
Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn.

For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft.

So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community.

Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you.

If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life.

Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate.

So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel.
[quote][p][bold]jammyswine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.[/p][/quote]Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.[/p][/quote]Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn. For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft. So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community. Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you. If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life. Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate. So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel. BillyTheKid
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Fri 24 Aug 12

soton-mike80 says...

BillyTheKid wrote:
jammyswine wrote:
BillyTheKid wrote:
Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.
Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.
Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn.

For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft.

So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community.

Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you.

If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life.

Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate.

So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel.
Well said BillyTheKid!
[quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jammyswine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.[/p][/quote]Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.[/p][/quote]Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn. For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft. So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community. Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you. If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life. Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate. So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel.[/p][/quote]Well said BillyTheKid! soton-mike80
  • Score: 0

1:40pm Fri 24 Aug 12

jammyswine says...

BillyTheKid wrote:
jammyswine wrote:
BillyTheKid wrote: Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.
Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.
Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn. For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft. So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community. Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you. If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life. Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate. So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel.
Right, no bandwagon has been jumped on no matter how well this would support your argument. I have had experience of what I suggested. I have not harrased anyone, nor have I chosen to leave piles of waste (of all kinds), what doesnt get collected by the dustmen I take to the tip. I have also not condemned anyone, again, simply expressed my experiences. Travellers on the officially and legally provided sites are not harassed, mainly because they are not on land (usually private, not always) that they are not supposed to be, for simply being there. They are, however viewed with suspicion because people have usually experienced the increase in crime that goes with them.. Are all travellers bad people? No, of course not. And yes, there are aspects to my and most people's 'normal' lives as you call them, The difference is that if my neighbour is a noise nuisance, there is a way of dealing with it. Airplanes, tough, the airport is likely to have been operating way before the person moved next to it or under the flightpath to it. If a child from a 'normal' environment gets to 16/18 with no qualifications and little attendance at schools, the parents are in the main called into account. If the same happens in the travelling community, we accept it as 'their way' or similar. Why do we, as a society accept this? Because there is very little the authorities (local, police or education) want to do. Did I feel more victimised by the dustmen working to rule or by the travellers who have robbed me and left places I loved looking like a mini-landfill site? I will let you have a guess. Good to have an reasoned debate with you though.
[quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jammyswine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.[/p][/quote]Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.[/p][/quote]Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn. For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft. So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community. Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you. If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life. Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate. So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel.[/p][/quote]Right, no bandwagon has been jumped on no matter how well this would support your argument. I have had experience of what I suggested. I have not harrased anyone, nor have I chosen to leave piles of waste (of all kinds), what doesnt get collected by the dustmen I take to the tip. I have also not condemned anyone, again, simply expressed my experiences. Travellers on the officially and legally provided sites are not harassed, mainly because they are not on land (usually private, not always) that they are not supposed to be, for simply being there. They are, however viewed with suspicion because people have usually experienced the increase in crime that goes with them.. Are all travellers bad people? No, of course not. And yes, there are aspects to my and most people's 'normal' lives as you call them, The difference is that if my neighbour is a noise nuisance, there is a way of dealing with it. Airplanes, tough, the airport is likely to have been operating way before the person moved next to it or under the flightpath to it. If a child from a 'normal' environment gets to 16/18 with no qualifications and little attendance at schools, the parents are in the main called into account. If the same happens in the travelling community, we accept it as 'their way' or similar. Why do we, as a society accept this? Because there is very little the authorities (local, police or education) want to do. Did I feel more victimised by the dustmen working to rule or by the travellers who have robbed me and left places I loved looking like a mini-landfill site? I will let you have a guess. Good to have an reasoned debate with you though. jammyswine
  • Score: 0

2:40pm Fri 24 Aug 12

The Wickham Man says...

Billy that's a very eloquent and persuasive defence, and I go along with it to some extent. I agree with you about being born into it - and the problem of traveller society is the same one that we see in much of Africa - it's a culture totally and utterly dominated by males for males, and exclusively male societies are archteypal. But despite this I see this big difference between true romanies who can point to a language ,history and a way of life that while not exactly snow white coexisted with rural life and was tolerated. The Irish tinker culture is something I do not like, and like others on here I know that if I extended a modicum of trust just one more time I'd find the next day that I'd been taken for a fool. Have you ever heard an itinerant tinker even admit the slightest guilt or express the slightest remorse? Me neither.
Billy that's a very eloquent and persuasive defence, and I go along with it to some extent. I agree with you about being born into it - and the problem of traveller society is the same one that we see in much of Africa - it's a culture totally and utterly dominated by males for males, and exclusively male societies are archteypal. But despite this I see this big difference between true romanies who can point to a language ,history and a way of life that while not exactly snow white coexisted with rural life and was tolerated. The Irish tinker culture is something I do not like, and like others on here I know that if I extended a modicum of trust just one more time I'd find the next day that I'd been taken for a fool. Have you ever heard an itinerant tinker even admit the slightest guilt or express the slightest remorse? Me neither. The Wickham Man
  • Score: 0

2:42pm Fri 24 Aug 12

BillyTheKid says...

jammyswine wrote:
BillyTheKid wrote:
jammyswine wrote:
BillyTheKid wrote: Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.
Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.
Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn. For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft. So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community. Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you. If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life. Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate. So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel.
Right, no bandwagon has been jumped on no matter how well this would support your argument. I have had experience of what I suggested. I have not harrased anyone, nor have I chosen to leave piles of waste (of all kinds), what doesnt get collected by the dustmen I take to the tip. I have also not condemned anyone, again, simply expressed my experiences. Travellers on the officially and legally provided sites are not harassed, mainly because they are not on land (usually private, not always) that they are not supposed to be, for simply being there. They are, however viewed with suspicion because people have usually experienced the increase in crime that goes with them.. Are all travellers bad people? No, of course not. And yes, there are aspects to my and most people's 'normal' lives as you call them, The difference is that if my neighbour is a noise nuisance, there is a way of dealing with it. Airplanes, tough, the airport is likely to have been operating way before the person moved next to it or under the flightpath to it. If a child from a 'normal' environment gets to 16/18 with no qualifications and little attendance at schools, the parents are in the main called into account. If the same happens in the travelling community, we accept it as 'their way' or similar. Why do we, as a society accept this? Because there is very little the authorities (local, police or education) want to do. Did I feel more victimised by the dustmen working to rule or by the travellers who have robbed me and left places I loved looking like a mini-landfill site? I will let you have a guess. Good to have an reasoned debate with you though.
Thank-you for taking the time to explain what you have experienced, and what you feel about travellers. Clearly you are not typical of the mob that post on here, slagging off travellers with offensive jibes, and I apologise for appearing to associate you with them. You have been treated badly by the travellers, and neglected by the authorities, which is not acceptable.

What about setting up resident/traveller liason group ? Get local MPs and councillors involved. If you approach it in a positive way, and are prepared to campaign with equal regard for both sides, you may get some results. Travellers have been hated and despised down through the centuries, were persecuted and murdered by the Nazis, and have no one taking their side except local authority liason officers, who don't seem to be able to achieve much. It'll take years of trust building, on a scale similar to racism problems.

Let me give an analogy in a completely different area. I knew a girl who left school and became a support assistant in a school. She quickly realised that autistic children were getting a very poor deal, and so she spent several years getting qualifications in special education. She began working for HAS, and started giving lectures and writing books on autism. She has run autistic units, and done a huge amount to raise awareness and understanding of autism. Many thousands of children on the autistic spectrum, and their parents and guardians, have benefited greatly from her work and that of her colleagues over the last 30 years.

Travellers need someting on that scale.

The main problem seems to be the rubbish. It has to be cleared anyway, so why don't our "Environmental Waste" department" get their act together and put a couple of skips on sites where travellers have stopped ? That department owes Southampton really "big time" for the mess they allowed to build up last year as we all know !

Of course, if people say, "Why should taxpayers foot the bill and so on, bla bla bla....", nothing will happen. So many people moan and groan about all sorts of things, always insisting it is someone else's job to do something about it.

We have created the stand-off between ourselves and the travellers. We have the money, the influence, and resources to help in a positive way. But who can be bothered.

Be inspired by that special needs assistant who began her crusade for autism with " I'm going to bother !"
[quote][p][bold]jammyswine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jammyswine[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BillyTheKid[/bold] wrote: Don't call me an idiot. If I have to comply with the rules, then so shall you. I used to teach traveller children, I knew their parents, and have talked at length about their lifestyle. And yes I do know a lot more than you do about them. But I don't think someone with your crass attitude to life would benefit from any enlightenment.[/p][/quote]Comply with rules....hmm if only every part of society did that just as an example, the 'travelling community'. You have talked at length about their lifestyle and met their parents. Great, have you ever lived somewhere that has been infested with crime, rubbish and intimidation within days of travellers setting up camp nearby? People are not, usually, making stories up (apart from the Daily Mail of course) these things happen and it is spineless liberals that help it to happen. Surely travelling by definition means transient and NOT setting up camps.[/p][/quote]Before you jump on bandwagons, you should try looking at life through the eyes of those you condemn. For a start, the majority of travellers do not choose their lifestyle : they are literally born into it. By the time they are teenagers they have missed a vast amount of schooling, on which they have little hope of catching up. And they certainly won't be doing any GCSEs. On the few occasions they have attended school in the past, they were immediately isolated, called "gypo", "pikey", and automatically blamed for any theft. So, through no fault of your own, you become an 18-year-old "pikey" with no formal education or qualifications, and no friends outside your own community. Supposing you do want to settle down to a normal life ? With that kind of background, you end up on the worst council estate, unemployed and unemployable, still being socially ostracized for being an "ex-traveller". No wonder they stay with the traveller community, as at least somebody likes you. If I was a traveller, being constantly hounded and harrassed wouldn't make ME feel like leaving my campsite clean and tidy. In fact, I would deliberately leave it in a mess in retaliation for being hated and sneered at all my life. Now. Through my "normal" life I have frequently been lied to and cheated by politicians, robbed by the major retail outlets who have thrived on selling me poor quality clothes, electrical goods, and food, and let down by the health service. I've had my sleep disturbed by traffic, aeroplanes, and noisy neighbours, and many a summer evening ruined by bonfire smoke and barbeque smells, for more years than I can remember. For nearly a year I was victimised by the dustmen, who deliberately let masses of rubbish pile up causing health risks and rat infestations, all because they had problems with their employers. Face it, our own kind have done us more harm and disservice than any traveller could possibly contemplate. So, jammyswine, go right ahead and defend the "normal" society that has kicked you, and the rest of us, in the teeth so many times. The travellers will know how you feel.[/p][/quote]Right, no bandwagon has been jumped on no matter how well this would support your argument. I have had experience of what I suggested. I have not harrased anyone, nor have I chosen to leave piles of waste (of all kinds), what doesnt get collected by the dustmen I take to the tip. I have also not condemned anyone, again, simply expressed my experiences. Travellers on the officially and legally provided sites are not harassed, mainly because they are not on land (usually private, not always) that they are not supposed to be, for simply being there. They are, however viewed with suspicion because people have usually experienced the increase in crime that goes with them.. Are all travellers bad people? No, of course not. And yes, there are aspects to my and most people's 'normal' lives as you call them, The difference is that if my neighbour is a noise nuisance, there is a way of dealing with it. Airplanes, tough, the airport is likely to have been operating way before the person moved next to it or under the flightpath to it. If a child from a 'normal' environment gets to 16/18 with no qualifications and little attendance at schools, the parents are in the main called into account. If the same happens in the travelling community, we accept it as 'their way' or similar. Why do we, as a society accept this? Because there is very little the authorities (local, police or education) want to do. Did I feel more victimised by the dustmen working to rule or by the travellers who have robbed me and left places I loved looking like a mini-landfill site? I will let you have a guess. Good to have an reasoned debate with you though.[/p][/quote]Thank-you for taking the time to explain what you have experienced, and what you feel about travellers. Clearly you are not typical of the mob that post on here, slagging off travellers with offensive jibes, and I apologise for appearing to associate you with them. You have been treated badly by the travellers, and neglected by the authorities, which is not acceptable. What about setting up resident/traveller liason group ? Get local MPs and councillors involved. If you approach it in a positive way, and are prepared to campaign with equal regard for both sides, you may get some results. Travellers have been hated and despised down through the centuries, were persecuted and murdered by the Nazis, and have no one taking their side except local authority liason officers, who don't seem to be able to achieve much. It'll take years of trust building, on a scale similar to racism problems. Let me give an analogy in a completely different area. I knew a girl who left school and became a support assistant in a school. She quickly realised that autistic children were getting a very poor deal, and so she spent several years getting qualifications in special education. She began working for HAS, and started giving lectures and writing books on autism. She has run autistic units, and done a huge amount to raise awareness and understanding of autism. Many thousands of children on the autistic spectrum, and their parents and guardians, have benefited greatly from her work and that of her colleagues over the last 30 years. Travellers need someting on that scale. The main problem seems to be the rubbish. It has to be cleared anyway, so why don't our "Environmental Waste" department" get their act together and put a couple of skips on sites where travellers have stopped ? That department owes Southampton really "big time" for the mess they allowed to build up last year as we all know ! Of course, if people say, "Why should taxpayers foot the bill and so on, bla bla bla....", nothing will happen. So many people moan and groan about all sorts of things, always insisting it is someone else's job to do something about it. We have created the stand-off between ourselves and the travellers. We have the money, the influence, and resources to help in a positive way. But who can be bothered. Be inspired by that special needs assistant who began her crusade for autism with " I'm going to bother !" BillyTheKid
  • Score: 0

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