Hampshire farmers face harvest crisis (From Daily Echo)
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Rain causes havoc for Hampshire farmers
11:08am Sunday 2nd September 2012 in News
Farmer Jack Parsons
With record-breaking levels of rain, Hampshire’s farmers are now battling to bring in a much-reduced harvest.
And continual rain and lack of sunshine earlier in the summer mean some crops are several weeks late and yields are well down.
Now farmers fear if the rain does not relent, this could damage next year’s harvest.
Arable farmers have been hit as the moisture has brought about disease in corn and lack of sunshine means it has not ripened properly and weighs less.
Julian Gibbons, chairman of the Hampshire National Farmers Union, said that on average across the county crop yields were down 15 per cent from normal and 25 per cent down on last year's bumper crop.
Particularly badly hit are yields for potatoes and apples, which are as much as 40 per cent down.
He said they were seeing disease levels in cereals that had not been seen for years and this year's weather was “probably worse than most people have seen in their careers because we have had so much rain”.
He said farmers on average had seen around a 10 per cent drop in grain sales so on a typical 500 acre farm they could be seeing a £40,000 drop in grain sales Mr Gibbons added that because the money spent to produce less crops is the same, this could lead to a 20 to 25 per cent drop in profit and, in cases where a lot of grain had been sold in advance, it could be worse.
He said farmers on average had seen around a 10 per cent drop in grain sales, but then you had to factor in that the outgoings to produce less yield have been the same – leading to a 20 to 25 per cent drop in profit.
Farmer Jack Parsons, from Ower, said that on farms in the Romsey area yields for barley, corn and rapeseed, had dropped by up to 20 per cent.
As well as running his own farm at Ower Mr Parsons does contract work on other farms in a 25-mile radius.
He said in some cases the maize and corn had simply not grown - with stalks reaching only a foot when they should be five feet tall.
Wet ground has also curtailed combine harvesting, he said, putting pressure on farmers to work long into the night on dry days.
A worldwide shortage of grain, partly due to the wet weather here and a drought in the USA, has pushed prices through the roof.
This should benefit farmers but many are unable to take advantage of the situation due to low yields.
Some farmers have sold their crops in advance at a set price, but the harvest has not arrived in time or the crop is of poor quality resulting in financial penalties, said Mr Parsons.
He said farmers that had sold corn in February into the market in advance could actually be making a loss.
Arable farmers are not the only ones suffering. Pig and poultry farmers have seen the prices for feed rocket because of the worldwide prices for grain.
Mr Parsons told how sheep farmers have grass for their flock to eat, but it is so wet they cannot digest it properly and treatment put on the animals to prevent fly eggs left on their fur is being washed away and having to be applied twice.
“It is unbelievable, it has affected everybody right across the playing field,” said Mr Parsons.
“It's been a horrible year and most people I know are saying exactly the same, ‘for goodness sake, let’s get this year over with and start again’.”
He added: “We’re not going to want it to carry on like it is at the moment because there will be some people out there who are seriously struggling.
“If it does then they need to see some serious increases in their returns to survive or else they won't survive.”
Alan Cook, of Windwhistle Farm, in Sherfield English, said his crop yield was down 25 per cent and the harvest had come more than a fortnight late.
While maize had died as it was unable to break through the rain-hardened ground, he said, cereal crops although produced in the same amount, the actual crops weighed half of what they should.
He said some crops were not making the industry standard so were in storage, and although Mr Cook said he would find a market for them they would have to sell at a lower price.
Mr Cook fears this summer's problems may have a knock-on effect.
As combine harvesting has been slowed by the weather, he may fall behind with the planting of next year’s crops, affecting next summer’s yield, as he cannot start planting rapeseed and oilseed until the field is clear.
He said this was one of the worst years he had seen, but hoped the weather would pick up in time to help next year’s crop.
Mr Gibbons said thankfully the last two harvests had been good and prices were high which would limit the financial damage to arable farmers at least, though the situation had affected morale.
“No one likes producing poor quality grain because you have spent the year growing it, you have all that potential and it’s gone at the last hurdle.”
Comments(51)
Of the Ilk
says...
12:03pm Sun 2 Sep 12
The supermarkets will use the poor harvest to raise prices, even if they do not pay the farmers any more. Look at the way dairy farmers have been treated by the milk processors - your cheap milk in ASDA is probably being funded by the farmers.
Linesman
says...
1:18pm Sun 2 Sep 12
loosehead wrote:You are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight.
I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come Christmas
Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated.
Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
freefinker
says...
1:22pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Linesman wrote:.. all too true.
loosehead wrote:You are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight.
I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come Christmas
Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated.
Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Mess about with the chemical balance of out thin and tenuous atmosphere and we must expect weather patterns to change.
southy
says...
1:25pm Sun 2 Sep 12
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
southy
says...
1:31pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.
loosehead wrote:You are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight.
I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come Christmas
Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated.
Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
freefinker
says...
1:41pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.
Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.
loosehead wrote:You are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight.
I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come Christmas
Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated.
Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
southy
says...
2:26pm Sun 2 Sep 12
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.
southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.
Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.
loosehead wrote:You are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight.
I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come Christmas
Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated.
Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Huffter
says...
2:35pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
100%HANTSBOY
says...
2:39pm Sun 2 Sep 12
"this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date...."
Are you an alien?
Are you an alien?
Torchie1
says...
2:53pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
southy
says...
2:54pm Sun 2 Sep 12
100%HANTSBOY wrote:You do not need to be to beable to understand Earth Natural History and what as happened and what will be repeated over and over again.
"this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date...."
Are you an alien?
southy
says...
3:01pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Torchie1 wrote:Its all ready been proven that Goldman-sach has done this and still are doing it, to push up prices and to keep them there, it was Goldman-sach that was buying food up for North Africa and pushing prices up pass what normal people there could afford and is what triggered off the up-rising in Tunisia where that man set him self alight.
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
So don't even think about trying to cover up what go's on in the world of finance or try to make excuses for it.
southy
says...
3:07pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
bazzeroz
says...
3:13pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:And supermarkets buy up land so no one else can grow crops near to their land. They also buy building land so that no competitor can build another supermarket near to them. Fascists all of 'em. I would say $astards but I'm not allowed to. We will ALL suffer by the greedy monopolies.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
southy
says...
3:30pm Sun 2 Sep 12
bazzeroz wrote:You are right we will suffer by monoplies.
southy wrote:And supermarkets buy up land so no one else can grow crops near to their land. They also buy building land so that no competitor can build another supermarket near to them. Fascists all of 'em. I would say $astards but I'm not allowed to. We will ALL suffer by the greedy monopolies.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
freefinker
says...
3:42pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:southy, when will you ever learn.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.
southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.
Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.
loosehead wrote:You are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight.
I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come Christmas
Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated.
Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
We can all remember selected weather events from whenever – the 60’s if you like. But you can’t remember what happened all 365 days of any particular year. This is what I mean by selected and prejudiced. Events that were NOT the norm are much more likely to be remembered than run of the mill weather days.
And, even if you could, each of us occupies a tiny insignificant spot on this relatively huge globe. What you remember of the weather on any particular day in the 60’s was certainly not happening 500, 1000 or 5000 mile away.
You remember selected weather events. That has NOTHING to do with climate. It really is about time you learnt the difference between weather and climate. When you have then, and only then, will you have anything relevant to add to the climate change debate.
loosehead
says...
3:51pm Sun 2 Sep 12
How can this all be about rich people haves & have not's? I posted on my experience on my allotment & southy has gone into another rant?
Des Olated
says...
4:27pm Sun 2 Sep 12
loosehead wrote:And you're surprised?
How can this all be about rich people haves & have not's? I posted on my experience on my allotment & southy has gone into another rant?
I read yesterday UK had wettest August for 100 years, whilst where I am (Canada) it's been baking all summer and crop prices due to rise because of lack of water!
freefinker
says...
5:19pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
Des Olated
says...
5:28pm Sun 2 Sep 12
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
Torchie1
says...
5:30pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:If it's already been proven, you will be able to tell us where this stash of food is and why the 'normal people' don't go and take it back?
Torchie1 wrote:Its all ready been proven that Goldman-sach has done this and still are doing it, to push up prices and to keep them there, it was Goldman-sach that was buying food up for North Africa and pushing prices up pass what normal people there could afford and is what triggered off the up-rising in Tunisia where that man set him self alight.
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
So don't even think about trying to cover up what go's on in the world of finance or try to make excuses for it.
freefinker
says...
5:34pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Torchie1 wrote:.. all the information you require was fully displayed on the TUSC website, but evil hackers have removed it.
southy wrote:If it's already been proven, you will be able to tell us where this stash of food is and why the 'normal people' don't go and take it back?
Torchie1 wrote:Its all ready been proven that Goldman-sach has done this and still are doing it, to push up prices and to keep them there, it was Goldman-sach that was buying food up for North Africa and pushing prices up pass what normal people there could afford and is what triggered off the up-rising in Tunisia where that man set him self alight.
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
So don't even think about trying to cover up what go's on in the world of finance or try to make excuses for it.
southy
says...
7:55pm Sun 2 Sep 12
freefinker wrote:Not selective its just and endless repeating cycle, if they are right it was warmer in the romeman period britian at the begining and was wet and cold at the end of roman britian period,
southy wrote:southy, when will you ever learn.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.
southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.
Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.
loosehead wrote:You are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight.
I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come Christmas
Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated.
Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
We can all remember selected weather events from whenever – the 60’s if you like. But you can’t remember what happened all 365 days of any particular year. This is what I mean by selected and prejudiced. Events that were NOT the norm are much more likely to be remembered than run of the mill weather days.
And, even if you could, each of us occupies a tiny insignificant spot on this relatively huge globe. What you remember of the weather on any particular day in the 60’s was certainly not happening 500, 1000 or 5000 mile away.
You remember selected weather events. That has NOTHING to do with climate. It really is about time you learnt the difference between weather and climate. When you have then, and only then, will you have anything relevant to add to the climate change debate.
also thats why we had some of the coldest winters in the 60's and some of the wettest summers in the 60's on record. Weather and Climate will go up and down in temps and will very between wet and dry years, its nothing new.
The only bew thing is, Is the way its reported and that is all.
southy
says...
8:07pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Torchie1 wrote:stored silos or sheds all over the world, Food for countrys not leaving the country where it was produce, held back to push the prices up and to keep them up.
southy wrote:If it's already been proven, you will be able to tell us where this stash of food is and why the 'normal people' don't go and take it back?
Torchie1 wrote:Its all ready been proven that Goldman-sach has done this and still are doing it, to push up prices and to keep them there, it was Goldman-sach that was buying food up for North Africa and pushing prices up pass what normal people there could afford and is what triggered off the up-rising in Tunisia where that man set him self alight.
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
So don't even think about trying to cover up what go's on in the world of finance or try to make excuses for it.
It first came up in the USA grain for 3 north African countrys, 2 years ago, never left the USA it all endded up being destoried, Goldman-sach bought up this grain and stored it while still selling gain to those same 3 countrys are a much higher price.
southy
says...
8:46pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
Des Olated
says...
9:15pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:How exactly is Lystrosaurus a "pig like creature" and how does the human race owe it it's existence?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
PS, do you mean devoid of food?
southy
says...
9:35pm Sun 2 Sep 12
Des Olated wrote:Its the line that all mammals stem from though evolution of changes and mutations splitting into new kinds of mammal
southy wrote:How exactly is Lystrosaurus a "pig like creature" and how does the human race owe it it's existence?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
PS, do you mean devoid of food?
Des Olated
says...
10:02pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:so, back to my question;
Des Olated wrote:Its the line that all mammals stem from though evolution of changes and mutations splitting into new kinds of mammal
southy wrote:How exactly is Lystrosaurus a "pig like creature" and how does the human race owe it it's existence?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
PS, do you mean devoid of food?
How exactly is Lystrosaurus a "pig like creature" and how does the human race owe it it's existence?
freefinker
says...
11:26pm Sun 2 Sep 12
southy wrote:.. and how did these insects and plants, that Lystrosaurus feed on, manage to live in a "period when the land masses was nothing but a desert"?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
southy
says...
11:28pm Sun 2 Sep 12
If this evolution line did not survive then the mammals that you see around you today would not be here, it would be totally different, humans are mammals. This creature survived when there was a 90% extinctions on land and sea and air. of all living things, ment that mammals did not have to start again from scratch.
southy
says...
11:32pm Sun 2 Sep 12
freefinker wrote:freefinker mosses and lichens can live in the hottest places on the earth and they can live in the coldest places on earth, insects many can with stand low and high temps, there are flys in Antartica, as well as the hottest places on earth.
southy wrote:.. and how did these insects and plants, that Lystrosaurus feed on, manage to live in a "period when the land masses was nothing but a desert"?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
Torchie1
says...
12:31am Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:Absolute rubbish, as usual but on Fin24 there is this little gem that might not fit in with your 'theories' :-
Torchie1 wrote:stored silos or sheds all over the world, Food for countrys not leaving the country where it was produce, held back to push the prices up and to keep them up.
southy wrote:If it's already been proven, you will be able to tell us where this stash of food is and why the 'normal people' don't go and take it back?
Torchie1 wrote:Its all ready been proven that Goldman-sach has done this and still are doing it, to push up prices and to keep them there, it was Goldman-sach that was buying food up for North Africa and pushing prices up pass what normal people there could afford and is what triggered off the up-rising in Tunisia where that man set him self alight.
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
So don't even think about trying to cover up what go's on in the world of finance or try to make excuses for it.
It first came up in the USA grain for 3 north African countrys, 2 years ago, never left the USA it all endded up being destoried, Goldman-sach bought up this grain and stored it while still selling gain to those same 3 countrys are a much higher price.
"Analysts at the time said that Russia's 2010-2011 export shortfalls helped fuel the social unrest in the Middle East and north Africa that eventually turned into the Arab Spring revolts and toppled several governments."
Not often right but once again you are wrong. Keep trying.
freefinker
says...
12:50am Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:.. but almost none of these life forms you mention can survive 'when the land masses was nothing but a desert'.
freefinker wrote:freefinker mosses and lichens can live in the hottest places on the earth and they can live in the coldest places on earth, insects many can with stand low and high temps, there are flys in Antartica, as well as the hottest places on earth.
southy wrote:.. and how did these insects and plants, that Lystrosaurus feed on, manage to live in a "period when the land masses was nothing but a desert"?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
Water is essential for life and by your own story our planet was entirely a sand desert - i.e. water unavailable, as otherwise it would not be desert.
mtdiablo
says...
8:43am Mon 3 Sep 12
Let's be fair to southy, freefinker. The Earth's land WAS mostly desert at one point, and there were living species inhabiting it. Deserts are not entirely devoid of water, either.
It's amazing how you guys can turn an article about harvests into an evolution argument.
It's amazing how you guys can turn an article about harvests into an evolution argument.
freefinker
says...
9:40am Mon 3 Sep 12
mtdiablo wrote:Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
Let's be fair to southy, freefinker. The Earth's land WAS mostly desert at one point, and there were living species inhabiting it. Deserts are not entirely devoid of water, either.
It's amazing how you guys can turn an article about harvests into an evolution argument.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Lystrosaurus, was just one of the surviving therapsids and it was indeed this group of animals that we believe did eventually evolve many millions of years later into mammals.
However to claim ‘the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature’ is no more true than we owe our existence to the first bacteria, of fish or the first animal to drag itself onto land, etc. Life is a continuum.
In afraid southy has little idea of how everything all fits together. He picks up snippets of information, misunderstands most of it, and then regurgitates it in a form which demonstrates his overall scientific illiteracy.
southy
says...
9:45am Mon 3 Sep 12
Torchie1 wrote:Russia short falls would not of made much difference, as there was a small amount of surplus from the uk and america that covered russia small short fall, so keep trying to peddle your finanical world mess its causing.
southy wrote:Absolute rubbish, as usual but on Fin24 there is this little gem that might not fit in with your 'theories' :-
Torchie1 wrote:stored silos or sheds all over the world, Food for countrys not leaving the country where it was produce, held back to push the prices up and to keep them up.
southy wrote:If it's already been proven, you will be able to tell us where this stash of food is and why the 'normal people' don't go and take it back?
Torchie1 wrote:Its all ready been proven that Goldman-sach has done this and still are doing it, to push up prices and to keep them there, it was Goldman-sach that was buying food up for North Africa and pushing prices up pass what normal people there could afford and is what triggered off the up-rising in Tunisia where that man set him self alight.
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
So don't even think about trying to cover up what go's on in the world of finance or try to make excuses for it.
It first came up in the USA grain for 3 north African countrys, 2 years ago, never left the USA it all endded up being destoried, Goldman-sach bought up this grain and stored it while still selling gain to those same 3 countrys are a much higher price.
"Analysts at the time said that Russia's 2010-2011 export shortfalls helped fuel the social unrest in the Middle East and north Africa that eventually turned into the Arab Spring revolts and toppled several governments."
Not often right but once again you are wrong. Keep trying.
southy
says...
10:01am Mon 3 Sep 12
freefinker wrote:Thats where your wrong free, Water is essential for life, but just because a place is a desert do not mean l that there is not enough water for insects or mosses or lichens, Goby Desert one of the dryest places on earth, but there are creatures and plants that live there, Sahara Desert one of the sandest deserts in the world and yet there insects and a snake that lives on the sand. Think before you post.
southy wrote:.. but almost none of these life forms you mention can survive 'when the land masses was nothing but a desert'.
freefinker wrote:freefinker mosses and lichens can live in the hottest places on the earth and they can live in the coldest places on earth, insects many can with stand low and high temps, there are flys in Antartica, as well as the hottest places on earth.
southy wrote:.. and how did these insects and plants, that Lystrosaurus feed on, manage to live in a "period when the land masses was nothing but a desert"?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
Water is essential for life and by your own story our planet was entirely a sand desert - i.e. water unavailable, as otherwise it would not be desert.
southy
says...
10:09am Mon 3 Sep 12
"Lystrosaurus, was just one of the surviving therapsids and it was indeed this group of animals that we believe did eventually evolve many millions of years later into mammals."
There are two that have been known to survived to date one that turn into mammals the other turned into marsupials.
There are two that have been known to survived to date one that turn into mammals the other turned into marsupials.
southy
says...
10:32am Mon 3 Sep 12
Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
Shoong
says...
11:03am Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:No glaring spelling or grammar errors, so this must be cut and paste then.
Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
Shoong
says...
11:05am Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:'Evolved', not 'turn', it wasn't magic.
"Lystrosaurus, was just one of the surviving therapsids and it was indeed this group of animals that we believe did eventually evolve many millions of years later into mammals."
There are two that have been known to survived to date one that turn into mammals the other turned into marsupials.
southy
says...
11:24am Mon 3 Sep 12
Shoong wrote:Yes sorry about the no grammar errors i try and add them next time round, was not a cut and paste like your thinking.
southy wrote:No glaring spelling or grammar errors, so this must be cut and paste then.
Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
freefinker
says...
11:41am Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:Mosses almost exclusively inhabit damp shady areas – not deserts.
Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
Lichens can indeed survive in deserts due to the lack of competition from vascular plants – but rocky deserts rather than sandy. They need a firm foothold on something solid.
The food requirements of Lystrosaurus would have been considerable; as you say it was the size of a pig. Lichens grow incredibly slowly, even more so in deserts due to the limitation of water supplies.
So that rules out both; remember you said: -
“Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.”
As for mosses and lichens being able to live ‘under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper’, well, we are now in southy fantasy world; and not for the first time.
As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
southy
says...
12:37pm Mon 3 Sep 12
freefinker wrote:Wrong again free, mosses lechins can grow under stones in deserts or in sand that don't get shifted about to much, as long there is a bit of dampness, like if you go to antarctica you find mosses but mainly lichens growing under the ice, but again its under the stones. plant life can adapt to conditions, you go to the foothills of the Atlas mountains where the sahara deserts meets and you find lichens and mosses and if you go to the other side of the sahara where the lime stone meets with the desert you can find the same thing happening there in the sand, also you would have plants that can live near (sea)salt water, plants that can with stand acid rain and saltly conditions. And that that era it was mainly a sandy desert condition stone layers have provenen that.
southy wrote:Mosses almost exclusively inhabit damp shady areas – not deserts.
Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
Lichens can indeed survive in deserts due to the lack of competition from vascular plants – but rocky deserts rather than sandy. They need a firm foothold on something solid.
The food requirements of Lystrosaurus would have been considerable; as you say it was the size of a pig. Lichens grow incredibly slowly, even more so in deserts due to the limitation of water supplies.
So that rules out both; remember you said: -
“Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.”
As for mosses and lichens being able to live ‘under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper’, well, we are now in southy fantasy world; and not for the first time.
As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So before start with all that BS about weather and climate condition it is nothing the earth has gone thought all before and is nothing new.
Georgem
says...
1:58pm Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:Southy, Goldman Sachs have not bought any food. You don't seem to understand how commodities trading works. GSCI buy commodities futures. They do not have a grain mountain in their offices. Go read a book on the subject, for goodness sake.
Torchie1 wrote:Its all ready been proven that Goldman-sach has done this and still are doing it, to push up prices and to keep them there, it was Goldman-sach that was buying food up for North Africa and pushing prices up pass what normal people there could afford and is what triggered off the up-rising in Tunisia where that man set him self alight.
southy wrote:Another basic misunderstanding about the world of finance. Crops can be bought and sold as commodities on the Options market and some crops that may see a varying value when they can be either food or fuel will be affected. A crop that can achieve a higher price on an alternative market is probably going to be sold there and if someone has taken that Option as a futures gamble, they've done well for their investors. I'm sure that you have a verifiable source for your story but as usual will be reluctant to reveal it.
And Goldman-sach have been buying up food stocks in the last few years, to keep the prices higher than they should
So don't even think about trying to cover up what go's on in the world of finance or try to make excuses for it.
Georgem
says...
1:58pm Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:"Think before you post" - southy
freefinker wrote:Thats where your wrong free, Water is essential for life, but just because a place is a desert do not mean l that there is not enough water for insects or mosses or lichens, Goby Desert one of the dryest places on earth, but there are creatures and plants that live there, Sahara Desert one of the sandest deserts in the world and yet there insects and a snake that lives on the sand. Think before you post.
southy wrote:.. but almost none of these life forms you mention can survive 'when the land masses was nothing but a desert'.
freefinker wrote:freefinker mosses and lichens can live in the hottest places on the earth and they can live in the coldest places on earth, insects many can with stand low and high temps, there are flys in Antartica, as well as the hottest places on earth.
southy wrote:.. and how did these insects and plants, that Lystrosaurus feed on, manage to live in a "period when the land masses was nothing but a desert"?
Des Olated wrote:Lystrosaurus the great mass extinction survivor, feed on any thing, insects, plants, and dont think for one moment that a desert is void of food for a creature like this.
freefinker wrote:What did the pig like creature (a pig?) find to eat in the desert?
southy wrote:.. only just noticed this southy classic.
Huffter wrote:Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.
southy wrote:I'm sure we're all quite happy for you to bury your head in the sand.
freefinker wrote:Its not selectived at all, its just that you got a very short memory span, or you never went out and about when you was a kid, But i can remember one summer in the 60's where it was wet and windy a lot, swimming in the river was like swimming in a ice box where the water was that cold it gave you headaches, weather patterns will repeat it self over and over again, this earth as seen more extremes than what you human race have experience to date, so stop trying to push your green agenda on me it do not wash.southy wrote:southy, your anecdotal memory of the past is not just selectively prejudiced but of no relevance to planetary weather patterns what-so-ever.Linesman wrote:How do you mean unusual, its weather patterns that have happened before in the pass, like in recent years its been some thing like we had in the 60's, just missing the all day long fog that we use to get.loosehead wrote: I've tried to warn shoppers after the way we allotment holders have been hit it was obvious that farmers would be hit as badly so watch out for huge price rises come ChristmasYou are right. TV News showed fields in East Anglia under water, ruining the potato crop, and many local area gardeners have found their potato crop ruined by blight. Fruit will also be in short supply, and as a result, expensive. With all the rain, the bees were not active and so blossom was not pollinated. Other countries have also had an unusual weather pattern which has affected their crops, so it would appear that what we import will also be expensive.
Would you like to tell us when?
this creature lived though a period when the Earth was a lot hotter than it is now.
Water is essential for life and by your own story our planet was entirely a sand desert - i.e. water unavailable, as otherwise it would not be desert.
Good grief, I facepalmed so hard I almost fell into a coma.
Georgem
says...
2:00pm Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:I believe you. To the trained eye, it's still got several trademark errors.
Shoong wrote:Yes sorry about the no grammar errors i try and add them next time round, was not a cut and paste like your thinking.
southy wrote:No glaring spelling or grammar errors, so this must be cut and paste then.
Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
Georgem
says...
2:03pm Mon 3 Sep 12
So the Missing Link is a pig? Wow.
Des Olated
says...
2:20pm Mon 3 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:No, just "pig like" according to Southy.
So the Missing Link is a pig? Wow.
In fact, apart from it's size it was totally un-pig like but let's not confuse things.
freefinker
says...
3:22pm Mon 3 Sep 12
southy wrote:.. do you know anything about photosynthesis?
freefinker wrote:Wrong again free, mosses lechins can grow under stones in deserts or in sand that don't get shifted about to much, as long there is a bit of dampness, like if you go to antarctica you find mosses but mainly lichens growing under the ice, but again its under the stones. plant life can adapt to conditions, you go to the foothills of the Atlas mountains where the sahara deserts meets and you find lichens and mosses and if you go to the other side of the sahara where the lime stone meets with the desert you can find the same thing happening there in the sand, also you would have plants that can live near (sea)salt water, plants that can with stand acid rain and saltly conditions. And that that era it was mainly a sandy desert condition stone layers have provenen that.
southy wrote:Mosses almost exclusively inhabit damp shady areas – not deserts.
Although there are many theories as to the cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, we do know that one of the results was a subsequent rise in global temperatures.
This did not necessarily mean 'the land masses was nothing but a desert'. Hot temperatures induce more evaporation. But, conditions were indeed harsh for the few surviving species and it took them many millions of years to evolve into filling all the vacated niches.
Rock fossils proves what plants and creatures surivive the 90% mass, extinction, we now know the extinction took 1000's of years to compleat and come to an end, and we know it was the insects that survived best on land, and its is rock formations that tells us that the land mass at the end of the extinction was mainly a sandy desert. And knowing what we know today about mosses and lichens they can survive in hot sandy places but not on the surface but under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper.
Lichens can indeed survive in deserts due to the lack of competition from vascular plants – but rocky deserts rather than sandy. They need a firm foothold on something solid.
The food requirements of Lystrosaurus would have been considerable; as you say it was the size of a pig. Lichens grow incredibly slowly, even more so in deserts due to the limitation of water supplies.
So that rules out both; remember you said: -
“Funny you should say sand, there was a peroid when the land masses was nothing but a desert, and the human race owes its excistence to a pig like creature.”
As for mosses and lichens being able to live ‘under the or in the sand where it is cooler and damper’, well, we are now in southy fantasy world; and not for the first time.
As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So before start with all that BS about weather and climate condition it is nothing the earth has gone thought all before and is nothing new.
Apparently not.
Apart from CO2, water and chlorophyll there is one other major requirement – sunlight.
So, your ‘mosses lechins can grow under stones in deserts or in sand that don't get shifted about to much’ is another bit of southy fantasy. Under a thin layer of ice, that’s possible as sunlight can defuse through.
loosehead says...
11:54am Sun 2 Sep 12