Campaigners fight to save Oaklands pool (From Daily Echo)

Didn't Labour say these two councillors would be disciplined?
Exactly when is that happening?
IO hope Labour decides on a PR job & scraps it's plans to close this pool

ToastyTea wrote:
"Considering this is the middle of the week and the middle of the day, to get this many poeple along to support the campaign is nothing short of miraculous.".....Um not really, knowing the area I expect it's because most of them don't have jobs.

Do you think they know how to swim though?

Shoong wrote:

ToastyTea wrote: "Considering this is the middle of the week and the middle of the day, to get this many poeple along to support the campaign is nothing short of miraculous.".....Um not really, knowing the area I expect it's because most of them don't have jobs.

Do you think they know how to swim though?

I doubt properly.

do most of the people in your area work, i doubt it ,just because its lordshill, does not mean that most of us are out of work
.also a lot of us know how to swim.

60 people spending money to go and swim regularly would have a better effect.

60 protesters ....... Take off the usual posters on this site and it reduces to 40.
.
Not really that important to the people of Lordshill, Coxford, Nursling, Rownhams and Western parts of the City.
.
Mind you it did look like rain

As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

I must admit I was fully supportive of keeping the Pool open, but to be honest, if people aren't going to use it, then it's just chucking money down the drain.

60 people turned out with Union involvement, yet when the strikes were going on last year hundreds turned out.

It appears there is little support for this pool? Shame really!

I do not know how to swim ( passed my yellow just).
but this is a community pool teaching children how to swim & a leisure pool to older people.
alongside this pool is a gym & a theatre as I've suggested this could be turned into a fitness centre with a cafe & could end up self financing

loosehead wrote:
I do not know how to swim ( passed my yellow just).
but this is a community pool teaching children how to swim & a leisure pool to older people.
alongside this pool is a gym & a theatre as I've suggested this could be turned into a fitness centre with a cafe & could end up self financing

Haha Loosehead, I got to my yellow also. the green involved putting my head under water so gave up lol.

You are bang on with turning it around into a fully fitted leisure centre, this would increase footfall big time. But it's all falling on deaf ears.

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:
I do not know how to swim ( passed my yellow just).
but this is a community pool teaching children how to swim & a leisure pool to older people.
alongside this pool is a gym & a theatre as I've suggested this could be turned into a fitness centre with a cafe & could end up self financing

Haha Loosehead, I got to my yellow also. the green involved putting my head under water so gave up lol.

You are bang on with turning it around into a fully fitted leisure centre, this would increase footfall big time. But it's all falling on deaf ears.

I've tried to debate with people on here but it doesn't work.
Ironlady on a subject like this one the last thing I would expect is for anyone on the left disagreeing with attempts to keep it open but they do.
turn it into a fitness centre offer it to the same company that's taken over the contract to run all sports & leisure facilities & if they can't run it besides at a loss it's the people's fault not the council but fix it first

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:
I do not know how to swim ( passed my yellow just).
but this is a community pool teaching children how to swim & a leisure pool to older people.
alongside this pool is a gym & a theatre as I've suggested this could be turned into a fitness centre with a cafe & could end up self financing

Haha Loosehead, I got to my yellow also. the green involved putting my head under water so gave up lol.

You are bang on with turning it around into a fully fitted leisure centre, this would increase footfall big time. But it's all falling on deaf ears.

I've tried to debate with people on here but it doesn't work.
Ironlady on a subject like this one the last thing I would expect is for anyone on the left disagreeing with attempts to keep it open but they do.
turn it into a fitness centre offer it to the same company that's taken over the contract to run all sports & leisure facilities & if they can't run it besides at a loss it's the people's fault not the council but fix it first

I'm not suggesting close it at all, unless no-one is prepared to use it.

In any business, in order to make a profit you have to invest. Sadly this Council would rather invest in more Councillors rather than spend money on what the public want.

So we can scream and shout all day, but unless we're 'friends' with the big boys our opinion means nowt!

It's a shame the new school never built a new pool and gym for the community. Fingers cross for the future.

Apathy has reached epidemic proportions, if you were to gauge support from an all those pressing a button on a PC then, no doubt, you will find thousands are supportive BUT ask those very same people to mobilise then.............

Was there a big recruitment drive for a certain bunch of lefty philistines there today pretending to give a flying fork?

loosehead wrote:
Didn't Labour say these two councillors would be disciplined?
Exactly when is that happening?
IO hope Labour decides on a PR job & scraps it's plans to close this pool

Can't remember what NuLabour had said, does it make any difference what was said or not?.. All of them including your party member keep on changing their minds... Refrendum on Bio Mas just an example.

As outside observer, way NuLabour operates they may have done something about Don and Keith and kept it quite as internal party matter.

Yes I have heard something from some small birds, but I can't betray confidence.

At the Council meeting both Councillors sat in different seats and on some items did not vote with rest of NuLabour Group.

I spoke to your mate Cllr. Moulton. Suggested if I was in opposition I would go for recorded vote. So that stand of Cllr. Spicer could become official record.

Conservatives demanded recorded vote, in which all three Coxford councillors abstained on item containing budgetary implications closing Oaklands Pool.

So what we in old Labour under the leadership of Alan Whitehead created has been destroyed by NuLabourites led by Cllr. Williams the Dear Leader and his de facto controler Cllr. J Rayment.

Strangely for his own political reasons it was Whitehead's political opponent who spoke for saving the pool. Irony!

ToastyTea wrote:
"Considering this is the middle of the week and the middle of the day, to get this many poeple along to support the campaign is nothing short of miraculous.".....Um not really, knowing the area I expect it's because most of them don't have jobs.

If the community really wanted this to reopen then surely more than 60 would have turned up. I'm sorry but the turn out demonstrates the apathy surrounding this pool.

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Tell me how do you work out Left and Right local politicians when they are all self confest Capitalist, even lo some are not as far right wing as the Green Party is, they are still Right Wing Politicians never the less.

Keep using that false propaganda of your calling the Socialist Party Trotskyist is only going to pull more attention to us, so keep up the good work, As with the Bio mass some of Socialist party memebers are involved and we have colletted signatures for that campaign and are still involved.

People who want a campaign to be successful get hold of the Socialist Party, Because they have the highest success rate in the UK, One of the biggest that every one should remember was the Poll Tax Revolt, And it was the Socialist that got the workers a better pay deal at the wind turbine blands on the island.

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

SpicersVoice wrote:
It's a shame the new school never built a new pool and gym for the community. Fingers cross for the future.

If they do it will not be for public use, they all ready let it been known they do not want a public swimming pool

Shoong wrote:
Was there a big recruitment drive for a certain bunch of lefty philistines there today pretending to give a flying fork?

No recruitment those leftys that your refering to was there supporting the none closure of Oaklands Swimming Pool back at Easter when the Tory council closed it, but had to wait till the the Election was over to see if the Labour Party was going to keep there word about Cuts and Job Losses, but we knew that they would not keep there word, and that was why we was ready the moment the Labour Council announce the moment they said the pool will stay closed, it was those Leftys as in the Socialist Party who was the only ones doing the petition.

Southy, why must i have to keep on requesting you to stop pulling fast ones.

Your denying that Socialist Party is not Trotskyist is less convincing than even flying pigs.

To believe in Trotsky is not a crime, but trying to fib in public life in my opinion is very wrong.

You may not be keen on Greens, but it should not provide you the license to brand them right of virtual Tories of NuLabour.

Sometimes through your desire to appear loveable for everybody you tend to destroy your whole week's hard work for your Party with single silly comment. Please curb it, I can't keep on pulling my hairs in frustration anymore, because now my head is completely bald!

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy, why must i have to keep on requesting you to stop pulling fast ones.

Your denying that Socialist Party is not Trotskyist is less convincing than even flying pigs.

To believe in Trotsky is not a crime, but trying to fib in public life in my opinion is very wrong.

You may not be keen on Greens, but it should not provide you the license to brand them right of virtual Tories of NuLabour.

Sometimes through your desire to appear loveable for everybody you tend to destroy your whole week's hard work for your Party with single silly comment. Please curb it, I can't keep on pulling my hairs in frustration anymore, because now my head is completely bald!

We are not most of us are just plain old left wing thinkers Paramjit. and to class us all in one type of left wing thinking is wrong, to be a Trotsky is not wrong I know, But if we was all Trotskys thinking people then there would be need to have meetings or debates because we would just agree with one another, but because we do have debates and meeting just shows that we all think differently and are able to debate on matters and to be able to get the right things done.
I also know to class some one as a Trotsky just means that you are Working Class aka The Majority, The Masses the Ordinary person on the street.
Brighton proved how right wing the Green Party are. which took many of us by surprise

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy, why must i have to keep on requesting you to stop pulling fast ones.

Your denying that Socialist Party is not Trotskyist is less convincing than even flying pigs.

To believe in Trotsky is not a crime, but trying to fib in public life in my opinion is very wrong.

You may not be keen on Greens, but it should not provide you the license to brand them right of virtual Tories of NuLabour.

Sometimes through your desire to appear loveable for everybody you tend to destroy your whole week's hard work for your Party with single silly comment. Please curb it, I can't keep on pulling my hairs in frustration anymore, because now my head is completely bald!

We are not most of us are just plain old left wing thinkers Paramjit. and to class us all in one type of left wing thinking is wrong, to be a Trotsky is not wrong I know, But if we was all Trotskys thinking people then there would be need to have meetings or debates because we would just agree with one another, but because we do have debates and meeting just shows that we all think differently and are able to debate on matters and to be able to get the right things done.
I also know to class some one as a Trotsky just means that you are Working Class aka The Majority, The Masses the Ordinary person on the street.
Brighton proved how right wing the Green Party are. which took many of us by surprise

Didn't Leon Trotsky argue for free discussions and debates most of his life, and for his sincerely held beliefs paid a very heavy price by getting Stalin's axe into his head?

Whether you agree with what Greens are doing in Brighton or not, most people there voted for them because they are convinced Greens are on the left of NuLabour.

Southampton needs unity of the left to be encouraged not even more divisions because of what some may or may not have done in some other place.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy, why must i have to keep on requesting you to stop pulling fast ones.

Your denying that Socialist Party is not Trotskyist is less convincing than even flying pigs.

To believe in Trotsky is not a crime, but trying to fib in public life in my opinion is very wrong.

You may not be keen on Greens, but it should not provide you the license to brand them right of virtual Tories of NuLabour.

Sometimes through your desire to appear loveable for everybody you tend to destroy your whole week's hard work for your Party with single silly comment. Please curb it, I can't keep on pulling my hairs in frustration anymore, because now my head is completely bald!

We are not most of us are just plain old left wing thinkers Paramjit. and to class us all in one type of left wing thinking is wrong, to be a Trotsky is not wrong I know, But if we was all Trotskys thinking people then there would be need to have meetings or debates because we would just agree with one another, but because we do have debates and meeting just shows that we all think differently and are able to debate on matters and to be able to get the right things done.
I also know to class some one as a Trotsky just means that you are Working Class aka The Majority, The Masses the Ordinary person on the street.
Brighton proved how right wing the Green Party are. which took many of us by surprise

Didn't Leon Trotsky argue for free discussions and debates most of his life, and for his sincerely held beliefs paid a very heavy price by getting Stalin's axe into his head?

Whether you agree with what Greens are doing in Brighton or not, most people there voted for them because they are convinced Greens are on the left of NuLabour.

Southampton needs unity of the left to be encouraged not even more divisions because of what some may or may not have done in some other place.

Yes he did as did Luxenburg and Lenin and a number of others, and the reason was because of the different way of left wing thinking, And what happen to the rest that was on that train that cross War Torn Europe at the hands of Stalin.

Funny Greens how they got there vote from the Torys and not the Labour Voters.

How many of the previous posts mention or care about the pool ?

I do Barbender and I am with in that catchment area for that pool, even lo i am in the next ward to it

southy wrote:
I do Barbender and I am with in that catchment area for that pool, even lo i am in the next ward to it

Why does a swimming pool have a 'catchment area'?

So what has Stalin got to do with it ?

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:
I do Barbender and I am with in that catchment area for that pool, even lo i am in the next ward to it

Why does a swimming pool have a 'catchment area'?

Catchment area is only an area that is half way between next public service of the same kind

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

Not the Trots, Paramjit, but the Commies – in the early/mid 60’s. Although they hate each other more than the right because of each other’s alleged revisionism, they both operate in the same cult like fashion.

Questioning the ‘party line’ is taboo. Leave and you are ostracised by ‘friends’ as well as family. I know as it happened to me.

My comments were meant as advice to Barbender in view of what he/she said ‘I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool.’

And agitators I think fairly describe the activities of Trotskyists. Whichever particular bunch of Trot’s it is (and they are splitters par excellence) it is their aim infiltrate and recruit. And it is recruit that is the primary aim, not the cause.

And oh, how they boast about their 'successes' – just look at southy’s words on this story. Poll Tax? Yes, they were involved but it is a gross disservice to the activists from many political persuasions for the Trots to claim ‘we did it’. Don’t know if you listened but last Friday on R4 ‘The Reunion’ they looked at this very issue; how the campaign started, how it grew and why it succeeded. The Trots were just an insignificant ‘also ran’.

You can still catch it on the iPlayer until tomorrow morning- http://www.bbc.co.uk
/iplayer/episode/b01
m9n0t/The_Reunion_Po
ll_Tax/

Well worth a listen.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy, why must i have to keep on requesting you to stop pulling fast ones.

Your denying that Socialist Party is not Trotskyist is less convincing than even flying pigs.

To believe in Trotsky is not a crime, but trying to fib in public life in my opinion is very wrong.

You may not be keen on Greens, but it should not provide you the license to brand them right of virtual Tories of NuLabour.

Sometimes through your desire to appear loveable for everybody you tend to destroy your whole week's hard work for your Party with single silly comment. Please curb it, I can't keep on pulling my hairs in frustration anymore, because now my head is completely bald!

Well said Paramjit.

It’s all part of the Trot’s deception to pretend they are not what they most obviously are. Maybe they even fool themselves.

I too have friends of many different political persuasions. We can agree to differ and often do. And yes, a disproportionate number of these do have of an environmental leaning, even if very few are actually Green Party members.

It seems southy has worked up a huge chip on his shoulder about the Greens and constantly thinks it appropriate to take out his hatred on me; even though I tell him time and time again I have no connections what-so-ever with the Greens.

That he tries to position the Green’s to the right of NuLabour, the Tories and even Genghis Khan just demonstrates the paranoia he suffers from.

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy, why must i have to keep on requesting you to stop pulling fast ones.

Your denying that Socialist Party is not Trotskyist is less convincing than even flying pigs.

To believe in Trotsky is not a crime, but trying to fib in public life in my opinion is very wrong.

You may not be keen on Greens, but it should not provide you the license to brand them right of virtual Tories of NuLabour.

Sometimes through your desire to appear loveable for everybody you tend to destroy your whole week's hard work for your Party with single silly comment. Please curb it, I can't keep on pulling my hairs in frustration anymore, because now my head is completely bald!

Well said Paramjit.

It’s all part of the Trot’s deception to pretend they are not what they most obviously are. Maybe they even fool themselves.

I too have friends of many different political persuasions. We can agree to differ and often do. And yes, a disproportionate number of these do have of an environmental leaning, even if very few are actually Green Party members.

It seems southy has worked up a huge chip on his shoulder about the Greens and constantly thinks it appropriate to take out his hatred on me; even though I tell him time and time again I have no connections what-so-ever with the Greens.

That he tries to position the Green’s to the right of NuLabour, the Tories and even Genghis Khan just demonstrates the paranoia he suffers from.

No free you try to make the word Trotsky a dirty word, as if its a offence to be working class.
And your the one who keeps backing up the Greens Party and there Policy of Green agenda though Capitalision, you put down the Socialist Greens and yet prise what the Green party done in Brighton and backing them.
And I not the only one who noticed it.

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

Not the Trots, Paramjit, but the Commies – in the early/mid 60’s. Although they hate each other more than the right because of each other’s alleged revisionism, they both operate in the same cult like fashion.

Questioning the ‘party line’ is taboo. Leave and you are ostracised by ‘friends’ as well as family. I know as it happened to me.

My comments were meant as advice to Barbender in view of what he/she said ‘I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool.’

And agitators I think fairly describe the activities of Trotskyists. Whichever particular bunch of Trot’s it is (and they are splitters par excellence) it is their aim infiltrate and recruit. And it is recruit that is the primary aim, not the cause.

And oh, how they boast about their 'successes' – just look at southy’s words on this story. Poll Tax? Yes, they were involved but it is a gross disservice to the activists from many political persuasions for the Trots to claim ‘we did it’. Don’t know if you listened but last Friday on R4 ‘The Reunion’ they looked at this very issue; how the campaign started, how it grew and why it succeeded. The Trots were just an insignificant ‘also ran’.

You can still catch it on the iPlayer until tomorrow morning- http://www.bbc.co.uk

/iplayer/episode/b01

m9n0t/The_Reunion_Po

ll_Tax/

Well worth a listen.

I did listen to it and if you did then you would of heard the Lady from Edinburgh (Christin Moya) say how it all started when she went to a Socialist Party meeting with Tommy Sheridan doing the speaking and meet afterwards and 3 others over cup of tea and joined the Socialist Party and started a branch up in Edinburgh, The Poll Tax Revolt started in Glasgow Scotland, Scotland was the first place to have the Poll Tax Enforce, and from there the Poll Tax and the Revolt came South.
The 80 min show was on Radio 4 with Sue MacGregor,

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

Not the Trots, Paramjit, but the Commies – in the early/mid 60’s. Although they hate each other more than the right because of each other’s alleged revisionism, they both operate in the same cult like fashion.

Questioning the ‘party line’ is taboo. Leave and you are ostracised by ‘friends’ as well as family. I know as it happened to me.

My comments were meant as advice to Barbender in view of what he/she said ‘I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool.’

And agitators I think fairly describe the activities of Trotskyists. Whichever particular bunch of Trot’s it is (and they are splitters par excellence) it is their aim infiltrate and recruit. And it is recruit that is the primary aim, not the cause.

And oh, how they boast about their 'successes' – just look at southy’s words on this story. Poll Tax? Yes, they were involved but it is a gross disservice to the activists from many political persuasions for the Trots to claim ‘we did it’. Don’t know if you listened but last Friday on R4 ‘The Reunion’ they looked at this very issue; how the campaign started, how it grew and why it succeeded. The Trots were just an insignificant ‘also ran’.

You can still catch it on the iPlayer until tomorrow morning- http://www.bbc.co.uk


/iplayer/episode/b01


m9n0t/The_Reunion_Po


ll_Tax/

Well worth a listen.

I did listen to it and if you did then you would of heard the Lady from Edinburgh (Christin Moya) say how it all started when she went to a Socialist Party meeting with Tommy Sheridan doing the speaking and meet afterwards and 3 others over cup of tea and joined the Socialist Party and started a branch up in Edinburgh, The Poll Tax Revolt started in Glasgow Scotland, Scotland was the first place to have the Poll Tax Enforce, and from there the Poll Tax and the Revolt came South.
The 80 min show was on Radio 4 with Sue MacGregor,

.. started, yes maybe. But not finished or had much of a part in the middle. And, don't think it wouldn't have become the same mass movement without your lot - it would have. The Poll Tax was unfair to left, right and centre and all played a big part in bringing it down (with Heseltine bringing down Thatcher as well - hum, he was no lefty).

Delusions of grandeur, again southy. But then we don’t want the facts to get in the way of 'the party line', do we?

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy, why must i have to keep on requesting you to stop pulling fast ones.

Your denying that Socialist Party is not Trotskyist is less convincing than even flying pigs.

To believe in Trotsky is not a crime, but trying to fib in public life in my opinion is very wrong.

You may not be keen on Greens, but it should not provide you the license to brand them right of virtual Tories of NuLabour.

Sometimes through your desire to appear loveable for everybody you tend to destroy your whole week's hard work for your Party with single silly comment. Please curb it, I can't keep on pulling my hairs in frustration anymore, because now my head is completely bald!

Well said Paramjit.

It’s all part of the Trot’s deception to pretend they are not what they most obviously are. Maybe they even fool themselves.

I too have friends of many different political persuasions. We can agree to differ and often do. And yes, a disproportionate number of these do have of an environmental leaning, even if very few are actually Green Party members.

It seems southy has worked up a huge chip on his shoulder about the Greens and constantly thinks it appropriate to take out his hatred on me; even though I tell him time and time again I have no connections what-so-ever with the Greens.

That he tries to position the Green’s to the right of NuLabour, the Tories and even Genghis Khan just demonstrates the paranoia he suffers from.

No free you try to make the word Trotsky a dirty word, as if its a offence to be working class.
And your the one who keeps backing up the Greens Party and there Policy of Green agenda though Capitalision, you put down the Socialist Greens and yet prise what the Green party done in Brighton and backing them.
And I not the only one who noticed it.

.. no southy, show me where I have backed up the Green's in Brighton.

You can't 'cause I haven't.

All I have done is to point out: -
1) It is NOC in Brighton - compromise is the order of the day in these real political situations.
2) Unlike TUSC, the Greens win votes and councillors because they recognise the actual economic situation this country is in; and put forward policies (not a slogan – ‘No Cuts, No Cuts’) that address the issues voters are concerned about.

That, dear southy, is called engaging in politics – just like the Tories, LibDems and NuLabour. One day it might dawn on you Trots that there is no political Utopia on the distant horizon and that you need to actually work out some real policies that are both economically sane and appeal to the populace.

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

Not the Trots, Paramjit, but the Commies – in the early/mid 60’s. Although they hate each other more than the right because of each other’s alleged revisionism, they both operate in the same cult like fashion.

Questioning the ‘party line’ is taboo. Leave and you are ostracised by ‘friends’ as well as family. I know as it happened to me.

My comments were meant as advice to Barbender in view of what he/she said ‘I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool.’

And agitators I think fairly describe the activities of Trotskyists. Whichever particular bunch of Trot’s it is (and they are splitters par excellence) it is their aim infiltrate and recruit. And it is recruit that is the primary aim, not the cause.

And oh, how they boast about their 'successes' – just look at southy’s words on this story. Poll Tax? Yes, they were involved but it is a gross disservice to the activists from many political persuasions for the Trots to claim ‘we did it’. Don’t know if you listened but last Friday on R4 ‘The Reunion’ they looked at this very issue; how the campaign started, how it grew and why it succeeded. The Trots were just an insignificant ‘also ran’.

You can still catch it on the iPlayer until tomorrow morning- http://www.bbc.co.uk



/iplayer/episode/b01



m9n0t/The_Reunion_Po



ll_Tax/

Well worth a listen.

I did listen to it and if you did then you would of heard the Lady from Edinburgh (Christin Moya) say how it all started when she went to a Socialist Party meeting with Tommy Sheridan doing the speaking and meet afterwards and 3 others over cup of tea and joined the Socialist Party and started a branch up in Edinburgh, The Poll Tax Revolt started in Glasgow Scotland, Scotland was the first place to have the Poll Tax Enforce, and from there the Poll Tax and the Revolt came South.
The 80 min show was on Radio 4 with Sue MacGregor,

.. started, yes maybe. But not finished or had much of a part in the middle. And, don't think it wouldn't have become the same mass movement without your lot - it would have. The Poll Tax was unfair to left, right and centre and all played a big part in bringing it down (with Heseltine bringing down Thatcher as well - hum, he was no lefty).

Delusions of grandeur, again southy. But then we don’t want the facts to get in the way of 'the party line', do we?

The Socialist Party was the main part of it the back bone behind the whole organisation, they was the ones who brought small groups that was springing up every where into the main body, so it acted as one, they was the ones that pass on the information from one group to another with things that work and things that did not work, In England some thing like 14 million people ended up not paying the Poll tax, It was the Socialist Party Network and there contacts that kept it going and to keep getting bigger. Heseltine could see what was happening so he took only action he could if he wanted to stay in Politics, Rats leaving a sinking ship to save there careers, all those in the Cabinet at the start of 1990 left the cabinet all but one, before Thatcher boot out of office, by there own Tory members to save them going to the Country.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

Not the Trots, Paramjit, but the Commies – in the early/mid 60’s. Although they hate each other more than the right because of each other’s alleged revisionism, they both operate in the same cult like fashion.

Questioning the ‘party line’ is taboo. Leave and you are ostracised by ‘friends’ as well as family. I know as it happened to me.

My comments were meant as advice to Barbender in view of what he/she said ‘I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool.’

And agitators I think fairly describe the activities of Trotskyists. Whichever particular bunch of Trot’s it is (and they are splitters par excellence) it is their aim infiltrate and recruit. And it is recruit that is the primary aim, not the cause.

And oh, how they boast about their 'successes' – just look at southy’s words on this story. Poll Tax? Yes, they were involved but it is a gross disservice to the activists from many political persuasions for the Trots to claim ‘we did it’. Don’t know if you listened but last Friday on R4 ‘The Reunion’ they looked at this very issue; how the campaign started, how it grew and why it succeeded. The Trots were just an insignificant ‘also ran’.

You can still catch it on the iPlayer until tomorrow morning- http://www.bbc.co.uk




/iplayer/episode/b01




m9n0t/The_Reunion_Po




ll_Tax/

Well worth a listen.

I did listen to it and if you did then you would of heard the Lady from Edinburgh (Christin Moya) say how it all started when she went to a Socialist Party meeting with Tommy Sheridan doing the speaking and meet afterwards and 3 others over cup of tea and joined the Socialist Party and started a branch up in Edinburgh, The Poll Tax Revolt started in Glasgow Scotland, Scotland was the first place to have the Poll Tax Enforce, and from there the Poll Tax and the Revolt came South.
The 80 min show was on Radio 4 with Sue MacGregor,

.. started, yes maybe. But not finished or had much of a part in the middle. And, don't think it wouldn't have become the same mass movement without your lot - it would have. The Poll Tax was unfair to left, right and centre and all played a big part in bringing it down (with Heseltine bringing down Thatcher as well - hum, he was no lefty).

Delusions of grandeur, again southy. But then we don’t want the facts to get in the way of 'the party line', do we?

The Socialist Party was the main part of it the back bone behind the whole organisation, they was the ones who brought small groups that was springing up every where into the main body, so it acted as one, they was the ones that pass on the information from one group to another with things that work and things that did not work, In England some thing like 14 million people ended up not paying the Poll tax, It was the Socialist Party Network and there contacts that kept it going and to keep getting bigger. Heseltine could see what was happening so he took only action he could if he wanted to stay in Politics, Rats leaving a sinking ship to save there careers, all those in the Cabinet at the start of 1990 left the cabinet all but one, before Thatcher boot out of office, by there own Tory members to save them going to the Country.

.. yes southy, if you say so.

It really is amazing how you rank and file swallow the endless revised history according to the Party. Nothing new though, is it. Politicians air-brushed out of photos, failed 5 year plans becoming 200% fulfilled in only 4, etc. ad infinitum.

Seems to be a trait the loony left share with the loony right – rewrite all history so it proves we were gloriously right all along.

This is about a community pool which with a bit of effort & with the repairs done has many years left in it.
It isn't about Trotsky or Lenin or Stalin or even Maggie but about a so called Labour council shutting a pool

.. yep, agreed.

See my original contribution at 8:30am Thu 13 Sep 12.

I'm offering practical advice to a local on how to organise a campaign without having it hijacked.

Who took it off subject? It's southy.

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

Not the Trots, Paramjit, but the Commies – in the early/mid 60’s. Although they hate each other more than the right because of each other’s alleged revisionism, they both operate in the same cult like fashion.

Questioning the ‘party line’ is taboo. Leave and you are ostracised by ‘friends’ as well as family. I know as it happened to me.

My comments were meant as advice to Barbender in view of what he/she said ‘I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool.’

And agitators I think fairly describe the activities of Trotskyists. Whichever particular bunch of Trot’s it is (and they are splitters par excellence) it is their aim infiltrate and recruit. And it is recruit that is the primary aim, not the cause.

And oh, how they boast about their 'successes' – just look at southy’s words on this story. Poll Tax? Yes, they were involved but it is a gross disservice to the activists from many political persuasions for the Trots to claim ‘we did it’. Don’t know if you listened but last Friday on R4 ‘The Reunion’ they looked at this very issue; how the campaign started, how it grew and why it succeeded. The Trots were just an insignificant ‘also ran’.

You can still catch it on the iPlayer until tomorrow morning- http://www.bbc.co.uk





/iplayer/episode/b01





m9n0t/The_Reunion_Po





ll_Tax/

Well worth a listen.

I did listen to it and if you did then you would of heard the Lady from Edinburgh (Christin Moya) say how it all started when she went to a Socialist Party meeting with Tommy Sheridan doing the speaking and meet afterwards and 3 others over cup of tea and joined the Socialist Party and started a branch up in Edinburgh, The Poll Tax Revolt started in Glasgow Scotland, Scotland was the first place to have the Poll Tax Enforce, and from there the Poll Tax and the Revolt came South.
The 80 min show was on Radio 4 with Sue MacGregor,

.. started, yes maybe. But not finished or had much of a part in the middle. And, don't think it wouldn't have become the same mass movement without your lot - it would have. The Poll Tax was unfair to left, right and centre and all played a big part in bringing it down (with Heseltine bringing down Thatcher as well - hum, he was no lefty).

Delusions of grandeur, again southy. But then we don’t want the facts to get in the way of 'the party line', do we?

The Socialist Party was the main part of it the back bone behind the whole organisation, they was the ones who brought small groups that was springing up every where into the main body, so it acted as one, they was the ones that pass on the information from one group to another with things that work and things that did not work, In England some thing like 14 million people ended up not paying the Poll tax, It was the Socialist Party Network and there contacts that kept it going and to keep getting bigger. Heseltine could see what was happening so he took only action he could if he wanted to stay in Politics, Rats leaving a sinking ship to save there careers, all those in the Cabinet at the start of 1990 left the cabinet all but one, before Thatcher boot out of office, by there own Tory members to save them going to the Country.

.. yes southy, if you say so.

It really is amazing how you rank and file swallow the endless revised history according to the Party. Nothing new though, is it. Politicians air-brushed out of photos, failed 5 year plans becoming 200% fulfilled in only 4, etc. ad infinitum.

Seems to be a trait the loony left share with the loony right – rewrite all history so it proves we were gloriously right all along.

Its not revised nor is it rewriten history it is what happed at the time, And theres nothing loony about people on the Left or are you calling working class loony.
No it just scares you that the Socialist can organise on small scale and large scale.
One thing you never see the socialist do and that is to Air brush leave that to the right wingers they are so good at it, just like they are so good at phone tapping ect.

freefinker wrote:
.. yep, agreed.

See my original contribution at 8:30am Thu 13 Sep 12.

I'm offering practical advice to a local on how to organise a campaign without having it hijacked.

Who took it off subject? It's southy.

You took it off subject Free you was the one who said the thing about leaving the Socialist (trots) out off it, when its those same Trots who been doing most of the work and was right there at the start and still there, we was there when the Tory Council closed the pool at Easter.

And to be honise I don't think you could organise a pee up in brewery.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Barbender wrote:
As a Lordshill resident and ex-pool user
I did not recognise many residents or pool users in the mob of "dozens".
How many live in the catchment area ?
How many care ?
To be honest I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool. Let it go and use the money to benefit the fo wider community.

.. yep, you've had your cause 'adopted' by one particular faction of the local Trotskyist.

I would suggest that because of this your cause is now doomed. Unless, of course, you can kick them out and keep this as a totally non-political campaign involving primarily local people.

Suggest you look at how the No Southampton Biomass campaign have organised themselves. When the Trots found out that all the local politicians, from both left and right, were discarding their rosettes to fight a common enemy, they lost interest and disappeared; looking for another dispute to infiltrate.

Freefinker, I am starting to wonder if as former Trotskyist yourself you may be suffering from love turning into hate scenario. By the way which brand of Trotskyists you were involved in? (just curious).

Although I have never ever belonged to any Trotskyist or Stalinist factions, I have been on friendly terms with not only both of these but also with Greens and many right wing Labour lots as well. So know few on all sides. Some of them are honest and work hard for what they believe in. As no doubt even some Tories do as well.

I can assure you that everybody protesting to save the pool yesterday was not member of Socialist Party, most were people who used the pool.

I was there because I live in the area and was involved in the project to build this pool and some other facilities at Oaklands by old Labour.

I don't share your view that left's involvement in any campaign could be kiss of death. For small groups left sometime has been exceptionally successful.

Not involved with Bio Mass I can only observe. All three main parties were united in voting for refrendum only few weeks ago and then did complete U Turn yesterday. Whatever spin they and their supporters may love to put on U turns becoming round about, it only proves that they too pull fast ones and mislead the public, while costing the Council. In fairness Socialist Party spends its own funds.

I do not believe that yeasterday was the last regarding issue of Oaklands. Demand for swimming pool in its area is likely to haunt this Council for a long time, just like subject of Ice Rink.

If Dear Leader's NuLabourites do not swallow their arrogance and false pride by making compromise with Don Thomas and Keith Morrell not only their party will suffer in Coxford but it could also damage Alan Whitehead's vote, who in fact has no role in decision to close Oaklands.

And who do you think could be the net winner?.... The Tories

Not the Trots, Paramjit, but the Commies – in the early/mid 60’s. Although they hate each other more than the right because of each other’s alleged revisionism, they both operate in the same cult like fashion.

Questioning the ‘party line’ is taboo. Leave and you are ostracised by ‘friends’ as well as family. I know as it happened to me.

My comments were meant as advice to Barbender in view of what he/she said ‘I would not fancy sharing the pool with some of the agitators who obviously do not live in the area or have ever used the pool.’

And agitators I think fairly describe the activities of Trotskyists. Whichever particular bunch of Trot’s it is (and they are splitters par excellence) it is their aim infiltrate and recruit. And it is recruit that is the primary aim, not the cause.

And oh, how they boast about their 'successes' – just look at southy’s words on this story. Poll Tax? Yes, they were involved but it is a gross disservice to the activists from many political persuasions for the Trots to claim ‘we did it’. Don’t know if you listened but last Friday on R4 ‘The Reunion’ they looked at this very issue; how the campaign started, how it grew and why it succeeded. The Trots were just an insignificant ‘also ran’.

You can still catch it on the iPlayer until tomorrow morning- http://www.bbc.co.uk






/iplayer/episode/b01






m9n0t/The_Reunion_Po






ll_Tax/

Well worth a listen.

I did listen to it and if you did then you would of heard the Lady from Edinburgh (Christin Moya) say how it all started when she went to a Socialist Party meeting with Tommy Sheridan doing the speaking and meet afterwards and 3 others over cup of tea and joined the Socialist Party and started a branch up in Edinburgh, The Poll Tax Revolt started in Glasgow Scotland, Scotland was the first place to have the Poll Tax Enforce, and from there the Poll Tax and the Revolt came South.
The 80 min show was on Radio 4 with Sue MacGregor,

.. started, yes maybe. But not finished or had much of a part in the middle. And, don't think it wouldn't have become the same mass movement without your lot - it would have. The Poll Tax was unfair to left, right and centre and all played a big part in bringing it down (with Heseltine bringing down Thatcher as well - hum, he was no lefty).

Delusions of grandeur, again southy. But then we don’t want the facts to get in the way of 'the party line', do we?

The Socialist Party was the main part of it the back bone behind the whole organisation, they was the ones who brought small groups that was springing up every where into the main body, so it acted as one, they was the ones that pass on the information from one group to another with things that work and things that did not work, In England some thing like 14 million people ended up not paying the Poll tax, It was the Socialist Party Network and there contacts that kept it going and to keep getting bigger. Heseltine could see what was happening so he took only action he could if he wanted to stay in Politics, Rats leaving a sinking ship to save there careers, all those in the Cabinet at the start of 1990 left the cabinet all but one, before Thatcher boot out of office, by there own Tory members to save them going to the Country.

.. yes southy, if you say so.

It really is amazing how you rank and file swallow the endless revised history according to the Party. Nothing new though, is it. Politicians air-brushed out of photos, failed 5 year plans becoming 200% fulfilled in only 4, etc. ad infinitum.

Seems to be a trait the loony left share with the loony right – rewrite all history so it proves we were gloriously right all along.

Its not revised nor is it rewriten history it is what happed at the time, And theres nothing loony about people on the Left or are you calling working class loony.
No it just scares you that the Socialist can organise on small scale and large scale.
One thing you never see the socialist do and that is to Air brush leave that to the right wingers they are so good at it, just like they are so good at phone tapping ect.

.. the 'working class', i.e. the 28 million in employment, don't want anything to do with your lot.

Don’t kid yourself that you represent ANYBODY in this country except your own small band of delusionals.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Didn't Labour say these two councillors would be disciplined?
Exactly when is that happening?
IO hope Labour decides on a PR job & scraps it's plans to close this pool

Can't remember what NuLabour had said, does it make any difference what was said or not?.. All of them including your party member keep on changing their minds... Refrendum on Bio Mas just an example.

As outside observer, way NuLabour operates they may have done something about Don and Keith and kept it quite as internal party matter.

Yes I have heard something from some small birds, but I can't betray confidence.

At the Council meeting both Councillors sat in different seats and on some items did not vote with rest of NuLabour Group.

I spoke to your mate Cllr. Moulton. Suggested if I was in opposition I would go for recorded vote. So that stand of Cllr. Spicer could become official record.

Conservatives demanded recorded vote, in which all three Coxford councillors abstained on item containing budgetary implications closing Oaklands Pool.

So what we in old Labour under the leadership of Alan Whitehead created has been destroyed by NuLabourites led by Cllr. Williams the Dear Leader and his de facto controler Cllr. J Rayment.

Strangely for his own political reasons it was Whitehead's political opponent who spoke for saving the pool. Irony!

just they would listen to what The People of the city are saying before it too late....if it isnt already?

Jeremy Moulton & the Tory Party are now trying to stop them knocking this building down so come on Southy Thomas & Morrel get behind the Tory party & help save this facility before it's gone altogether

lisa whitemore wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Didn't Labour say these two councillors would be disciplined?
Exactly when is that happening?
IO hope Labour decides on a PR job & scraps it's plans to close this pool

Can't remember what NuLabour had said, does it make any difference what was said or not?.. All of them including your party member keep on changing their minds... Refrendum on Bio Mas just an example.

As outside observer, way NuLabour operates they may have done something about Don and Keith and kept it quite as internal party matter.

Yes I have heard something from some small birds, but I can't betray confidence.

At the Council meeting both Councillors sat in different seats and on some items did not vote with rest of NuLabour Group.

I spoke to your mate Cllr. Moulton. Suggested if I was in opposition I would go for recorded vote. So that stand of Cllr. Spicer could become official record.

Conservatives demanded recorded vote, in which all three Coxford councillors abstained on item containing budgetary implications closing Oaklands Pool.

So what we in old Labour under the leadership of Alan Whitehead created has been destroyed by NuLabourites led by Cllr. Williams the Dear Leader and his de facto controler Cllr. J Rayment.

Strangely for his own political reasons it was Whitehead's political opponent who spoke for saving the pool. Irony!

just they would listen to what The People of the city are saying before it too late....if it isnt already?

Lisa, It is very sad fact of life that our supposedly democratic society the institutions have started to suffer from old age, so have become virtually deaf.

Age wise some of those who run our Council may be young, but their arrogance has turned them into equivalent of teenage brats who may not be physically deaf but do not listen.

The idiot who supported his wife and has been allowed to get away with it on foul mouthing is example.

Those who listen to people like Cllr. Thomas and Cllr. Morrell are in fact these days frowned upon by their Party, which at one time used to represent ordinary hard working decent people, but has been taken over by champagne sipping snobs. They live on their own happy farms, and have no feeling for the services for ordinary people. Oaklands won’t be their only victim; unless people all over the City unite they will keep on victimising one by one.

Only way to cure their arrogance is for us the people to keep on campaigning for what we believe in and keep on confronting them with few truths like Chorley did at the Council meeting.

loosehead wrote:
Jeremy Moulton & the Tory Party are now trying to stop them knocking this building down so come on Southy Thomas & Morrel get behind the Tory party & help save this facility before it's gone altogether

Loosehead,
It could be nice if you stop promoting your Tory Party and its parliamentary candidate on the back of Oaklands and avoid political ping pong on this subject.

It is my humble request not only to you but to my own colleagues on the left as well who are also doing the same as you.

You may recall that when news of Council’s desire to close Oaklands Swimming Pool appeared on this website, I tried to float the idea of common campaign to save Oaklands. Sadly you keep on asking others to follow your lot and they are probably expecting your lot to follow them.

So far all we have achieved is, even bigger gap between ourselves, which has allowed the administration to walk through the gap and opportunity to put lid upon Oaklands coffin.

At this late stage only way to make sure they do not put the nails in is to have a single issue community based campaign in which those involved in political parties should also unite for ‘A’ common cause.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Jeremy Moulton & the Tory Party are now trying to stop them knocking this building down so come on Southy Thomas & Morrel get behind the Tory party & help save this facility before it's gone altogether

Loosehead,
It could be nice if you stop promoting your Tory Party and its parliamentary candidate on the back of Oaklands and avoid political ping pong on this subject.

It is my humble request not only to you but to my own colleagues on the left as well who are also doing the same as you.

You may recall that when news of Council’s desire to close Oaklands Swimming Pool appeared on this website, I tried to float the idea of common campaign to save Oaklands. Sadly you keep on asking others to follow your lot and they are probably expecting your lot to follow them.

So far all we have achieved is, even bigger gap between ourselves, which has allowed the administration to walk through the gap and opportunity to put lid upon Oaklands coffin.

At this late stage only way to make sure they do not put the nails in is to have a single issue community based campaign in which those involved in political parties should also unite for ‘A’ common cause.

Read my post again will you!
I was telling you of the on going campaign & was asking Southy & the two Labour councillors & their supporters to climb onboard the campaign to stop these buildings from being demolished.
If I was making a political point out of it I wouldn't be asking the left to join the right now would I Paramajit?

Paramjit in the beginning the Tory party went out leafletting & tried to gain as many signatures & as much support as possible to save this pool.
Then suddenly all we heard about was Thomas & Morrel & it was only Labour doing anything then it was Labour & Southy doing it all.
No Tory councillor on here trying to save their seat or trying to take full credit for starting the campaign.
these Labour councillors didn't really have a choice if they wanted to retain their seats.
Now the vote is lost a new campaign is started to stop this building from being pulled down.
I'm not a member of any Political Party but I find Moulton a honest man ( to me) so I put to him the same idea I've put on posts .
convert the existing Gym,Theatre & swimming pool into a Fitness centre similar to LA Fitness then offer the contract to run it to a private company with the proviso they do cheap rates for OAP's & children using the pool.
he thought it was a great idea so I've asked the Left & all parties interested to get in contact with him(tory party) & join forces.
find a company willing to run such a centre & fight to save this facility I don't see it happening if it's just one side of the political divide doing it all

loosehead wrote:
Paramjit in the beginning the Tory party went out leafletting & tried to gain as many signatures & as much support as possible to save this pool.
Then suddenly all we heard about was Thomas & Morrel & it was only Labour doing anything then it was Labour & Southy doing it all.
No Tory councillor on here trying to save their seat or trying to take full credit for starting the campaign.
these Labour councillors didn't really have a choice if they wanted to retain their seats.
Now the vote is lost a new campaign is started to stop this building from being pulled down.
I'm not a member of any Political Party but I find Moulton a honest man ( to me) so I put to him the same idea I've put on posts .
convert the existing Gym,Theatre & swimming pool into a Fitness centre similar to LA Fitness then offer the contract to run it to a private company with the proviso they do cheap rates for OAP's & children using the pool.
he thought it was a great idea so I've asked the Left & all parties interested to get in contact with him(tory party) & join forces.
find a company willing to run such a centre & fight to save this facility I don't see it happening if it's just one side of the political divide doing it all

Loosehead,
Difference between what you and what have been suggesting is clear.

I have talked about campaign in which all of us unite for single issue while suspending our political loyalties when taking part in this campaign.

But you are demanding everybody to join a Conservative Party campaign. Your words ---- "I've asked the left and all parties interested to get in contact with him (Tory party) & join forces"

Either as former sportsman you are too honest or accident prone!

So by inserting words "Tory Party" you either have laid your real agenda bare, that it is the campaign of Tories or unwittingly have let the cat out of the bag i.e. it is political campaign of the party you support.

When people with total loyalties to opposing political parties are involved, something like this (that may appear to be of no importance to non politicised people) is like red rag to bull. So won't work.

People in power may be good at finding banana skins, but they are not that stupid. They know these faults, which will keep on dividing people thus allowing them to get away with closing the pool.

So who is the real loser?...People of the area. I find that difficult to cope.

Having known Don for a very long time, I am not convinced that he would have stuck his neck out to save his seat. I am convinced Don and Keith took that stand because they believed in saving Oaklands.

As I have never even spoken to Cllr. Spicer I can't say the same. This is why I suggested to Cllr. Moulton to demand recorded vote -- to smoke her out. But I did not realise that leadership of her Group had already allowed her to abstain, because according to unconfirmed sources she was very worried about voting with her Group as people of the area have been letting their disgust about her performance known to her.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Paramjit in the beginning the Tory party went out leafletting & tried to gain as many signatures & as much support as possible to save this pool.
Then suddenly all we heard about was Thomas & Morrel & it was only Labour doing anything then it was Labour & Southy doing it all.
No Tory councillor on here trying to save their seat or trying to take full credit for starting the campaign.
these Labour councillors didn't really have a choice if they wanted to retain their seats.
Now the vote is lost a new campaign is started to stop this building from being pulled down.
I'm not a member of any Political Party but I find Moulton a honest man ( to me) so I put to him the same idea I've put on posts .
convert the existing Gym,Theatre & swimming pool into a Fitness centre similar to LA Fitness then offer the contract to run it to a private company with the proviso they do cheap rates for OAP's & children using the pool.
he thought it was a great idea so I've asked the Left & all parties interested to get in contact with him(tory party) & join forces.
find a company willing to run such a centre & fight to save this facility I don't see it happening if it's just one side of the political divide doing it all

Loosehead,
Difference between what you and what have been suggesting is clear.

I have talked about campaign in which all of us unite for single issue while suspending our political loyalties when taking part in this campaign.

But you are demanding everybody to join a Conservative Party campaign. Your words ---- "I've asked the left and all parties interested to get in contact with him (Tory party) & join forces"

Either as former sportsman you are too honest or accident prone!

So by inserting words "Tory Party" you either have laid your real agenda bare, that it is the campaign of Tories or unwittingly have let the cat out of the bag i.e. it is political campaign of the party you support.

When people with total loyalties to opposing political parties are involved, something like this (that may appear to be of no importance to non politicised people) is like red rag to bull. So won't work.

People in power may be good at finding banana skins, but they are not that stupid. They know these faults, which will keep on dividing people thus allowing them to get away with closing the pool.

So who is the real loser?...People of the area. I find that difficult to cope.

Having known Don for a very long time, I am not convinced that he would have stuck his neck out to save his seat. I am convinced Don and Keith took that stand because they believed in saving Oaklands.

As I have never even spoken to Cllr. Spicer I can't say the same. This is why I suggested to Cllr. Moulton to demand recorded vote -- to smoke her out. But I did not realise that leadership of her Group had already allowed her to abstain, because according to unconfirmed sources she was very worried about voting with her Group as people of the area have been letting their disgust about her performance known to her.

Sorry try reading your friend Southy's posts & you'll see that he makes no mention of a joint effort.
I also can't believe you've been fooled by Thomas & Morrels actions?
When they've indeed been chucked out of the Labour Party or some other severe punishment I will apologise to you until then this is a smokescreen to save those seats for Labour & I hope not all the voters are as easily fooled as you've seen to be

Loosehead,
I have made my concerns clear that both sides are playing games, which has hindered a united campaign to save Oaklands. Only difference between you and Southy is that he has tried to promote Socialist Party and you have been doing the same for Tories. Oaklands seem to have conveniently become a ball for you both to kick around.

You are entitled to think whatever you like about actions of Don and Keith, But I have absolutely no doubt about their sincere commitment to save swimming pool.

Considering you are so keen to see them punished by NuLabour convinces me that your real desire is to see political destruction of two popular councillors, so rest has got to be a smoke screen of yours.

As I wrote in another comment according to what I have heard their Party has already taken some action against both of them. My info seem to be correct because at the Council meeting their seats were allocated to other councillors and both of them sat on their own slightly away from NuLabour Group, even one of your mates had referred to them as a separate party.

Please do not apologise but just admit that your desire to make Tories look good made you make mistakes. So you have posted pure fiction and caused embrassment to party you support. Don't worry we are all human who can't always be perfect.

Have nice weekend.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Loosehead,
I have made my concerns clear that both sides are playing games, which has hindered a united campaign to save Oaklands. Only difference between you and Southy is that he has tried to promote Socialist Party and you have been doing the same for Tories. Oaklands seem to have conveniently become a ball for you both to kick around.

You are entitled to think whatever you like about actions of Don and Keith, But I have absolutely no doubt about their sincere commitment to save swimming pool.

Considering you are so keen to see them punished by NuLabour convinces me that your real desire is to see political destruction of two popular councillors, so rest has got to be a smoke screen of yours.

As I wrote in another comment according to what I have heard their Party has already taken some action against both of them. My info seem to be correct because at the Council meeting their seats were allocated to other councillors and both of them sat on their own slightly away from NuLabour Group, even one of your mates had referred to them as a separate party.

Please do not apologise but just admit that your desire to make Tories look good made you make mistakes. So you have posted pure fiction and caused embrassment to party you support. Don't worry we are all human who can't always be perfect.

Have nice weekend.

I don't want to see the public conned into voting the same party back into power that closed & demolished this facility.
That is exactly what would happen if they vote for those two so if you had an open mind you might see it for a con trick to save these seats for Labour